Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Jul 2010 13:48

Thursday, July 29, 2010
The uproar in The New York Times, The Guardian, The Times of London and on television channels such as CNN, the BBC and FoxNews followed by the release of documents by WikiLeaks regarding the alleged secret meetings between the Haqqani group and the ISI is beyond comprehension. NATO forces were fully equipped with the satellite system as well as a state-of-the-art intelligence system. How did these meetings remain a secret from 2004 to 2009 despite all the wherewithal available with the allied forces?

Dr Najeeb A. Khan
San Deigo
*****

This is with reference to the release of thousands of secret US government documents on the whistle-blower website, WikiLeaks.org. It's quite easy to assume that there is a lobby in the US which doesn't want to see stable relations between Pakistan and America. Moreover, it could be an attempt to weaken Obama's already weak Afghan policy.

Saira Rehman
Islamabad
*****

In my opinion all the employees of the ISI, covert or not, should be given medals for their performance over the past decade. They are involved in the most dangerous game of chess, with the United States, NATO, Afghanistan, India, Iran and Israel as the opposing sides. Think about it, playing chess against one opponent is hard enough; these guys are playing it against six, if not more, opponents. That's commendable. When your opponent cries foul every day, week, month for years – you're doing a good job!

A reader
Canada

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 29 Jul 2010 13:51

JUST IN: ISAF has ability to strike Taliban bases in Pakistan, why ISAF does not strike Taliban inside Pakistan: President Karzai

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jul 2010 14:40

David Cameron defends comments about Pakistan and terrorism: British prime minister says he has not caused offence in Pakistan and insists he is not accusing the Islamabad government of promoting terrorism

Downing Street insisted the prime minister was not accusing Pakistan's government of sponsoring terrorism. But a few minutes after his speech, Cameron made clear that official agencies in Pakistan were responsible for harbouring terrorists.

Asked on the Today programme whether Pakistan exports terrorism, Cameron said: "I choose my words very carefully. It is unacceptable for anything to happen within Pakistan that is about supporting terrorism elsewhere. It is well-documented that that has been the case in the past, and we have to make sure that the Pakistan authorities are not looking two ways. They must only look one way, and that is to a democratic and stable Pakistan."

following the meeting with Ombaba and wikileaks tamasha, looks like the ground is being prepared to end the plausible deniability fig leaf that the TSPA has been hiding behind. Ofcourse, this is all to make action happen on the Afghan front...

daspercenti is due in UK next week for weekend retreat with Cameroon, i suppose it will be a means of giving him more painkillers and lubes to take-in kiyanahi's 'extension'

amit · Post by **amit** » 29 Jul 2010 14:51

It's interesting that the circumscribed Non dong did not take off and neither did the Pacquis issue a plausible statement like bad weather etc. Me thinks Dhobis in GHQ are running out of soap washing brown pants.

Frankly, I think all the way from the Headley disclosures which found their way to ToI and other outlets to the present Wiki tamasha reinforces what Lalmohan just worte, that is the fig leaf is being taken away and everybody is playing their part.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jul 2010 14:56

now if the fig leaf is taken away, the jarnails have to decide if they value dollars higher than the ummah and khilafat... crunch time approaching for TSP as we knew it (something is going to give in the next two years)

after thought...

a full blown pak civil war contained within and deprived of nukes is actually a helpful outcome for all parties (even the paquis)

time to relook at some of those maps doing the rounds...

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Jul 2010 15:24

Now if only a BRFite can sneak in an IED to any of the intenational rags and ask for an attack of TSP by ISAF. Jut to add a litre of gasoline to a fire which will soon become an inferno to cook TSP.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Jul 2010 15:44

The international Rags if not already IEDised by the Wikileaks then nothing can wake them up.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 29 Jul 2010 15:57

chetak wrote:Here is the passenger manifest.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -202-ss-03

Anything interesting??

Two Hindus on that list.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Jul 2010 16:06

Folks, just a thought.

When I found BRF in the aftermath of IC 814. The discussion and the international narrative was bout the Indian Pak fight over Cashmere and how it is the most dangerous place in the world. Over the past almost 10 years. The Discussion is more bout the threat represented by TSP to the western world.

I don't think that India has won half the battle but rather TSP has lost half the battle. Indian will have won the battle when TSP is recognised as athreat to India as well.

Why I have posted the above?

Because the start has been made by the western world (By recognising ) that TSP is a threat to peace and stability if not contolled. Its a start, we still have a ong way to go. I have full faith in the ablity of TSP to do some thing brilliant to make it a complete Indian victory.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Jul 2010 17:17

Muppalla in the WikiLeaks thread wrote:What the WikiLeaks Documents Really Reveal - by Leslie H. Gelb

But let’s face it: Pakistan’s overriding interests in Afghanistan don’t have much to do with the United States. Their fixation is India, plain and simple. They don’t want India to gain any sort of foothold in Afghanistan and somehow encircle them.

Of course, the author is generally right. But, many people, like him, make this mistake that it is Pakistan's 'paranoia' of India. The Pakistanis are worried about India enclosing them in a pincer through Afghanistan etc. No, that's incorrect. Pakistan's fear is a mask that it wears to justify its actions, extract concessions from the USA, circumscribe India's sphere of influence and help in its ambition of destruction of India.

The Americans, for their own reasons, do see merit in such a Pakistani fear.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jul 2010 17:20

those of you that regularly write in letters to the editor etc., how about countering the above with "pakistan has aggressively tried to encircle india for decades with x, y, z, and even now seeks to attack her by proxy from afghanistan... whilst colluding with china to support various insurgencies... with a single minded aggressive posture against a largely pacifist state focused on development and the economy..."

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 29 Jul 2010 18:45

Its friedin tomorrow.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Jul 2010 18:58

Samay wrote:Its friedin tomorrow.

It is a follow on innings from last fridin. They have a lot of runs to cover up.

James B · Post by **James B** » 29 Jul 2010 19:03

deleted- already posted

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 29 Jul 2010 20:18

Pakistan's fear is of the inevitable, because they know what they are, and not of India!

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 29 Jul 2010 20:24

Interesting Article from Washington Post

Drying out after the Wiki leak

A WikiLeak earlier this week, advertised as a tidal wave of secret communication, later elicited little more than a collective yawn for many observers. What was so Earth shattering about the Taliban's access to the latest in weaponry? Don't most Americans know that we are at a stalemate at best, and at worst losing ground to the rebellious Pashtuns in southeastern Afghanistan? Is the collusion between Pakistan's military and her Inter Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), the shadowy spy agency, with the Taliban really news?

The Government of India has long complained--ineffectively--that the Pakistani military and ISI function in tandem with Islamist militants to foment terror in India's northern state of Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistan for nearly that entire time, with incredible success, deflected global opprobrium maintaining that they only provided moral and diplomatic support to brave freedom fighters. Where the deaths of nearly 60,000 people and the religious cleansing of 350,000 Hindus from their homes in Kashmir by Islamist militants since as recently as 1990, failed to turn attention to this war-by-proxy Pakistani strategy, the American invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 finally delivered that sordid collaboration to a wider audience.

Money can't buy love, certainly, but it surely can feed and arm those who hate.

Views expressed here are the personal views of Dr. Aseem Shukla, and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Minnesota or Hindu American Foundation.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Jul 2010 20:52

SSridhar wrote: What the WikiLeaks Documents Really Reveal - by Leslie H. Gelb

But let’s face it: Pakistan’s overriding interests in Afghanistan don’t have much to do with the United States. Their fixation is India, plain and simple. They don’t want India to gain any sort of foothold in Afghanistan and somehow encircle them.

This is one of those simple falshoods Vs complex truths situations. The former are so easy to disseminate like wild fire through sound bites; while the latter just wither away into the background. And India's lack of power, either militar/diplomatic/media, makes matters worse.

TSP masks its hatred of India and desire to destroy India through paranoia and fear; when in reality, all it has is anything but fear, rather contempt, disdain, and sense of ovewhelming TFTA superirity over SDRE Kuffers. Fact of the matter is that TSP wants to realize their grandiose Moghul imperialist ambitions, and in the process render Afganisthan a terrorist waste land.

Yes, India does want a foot hold in Afganisthan, not the least because of our enormous cultural and civilizational links that go back millenia, not to mention the fond affection Afghanis have for India. And of course, to have a stable Afganisthan that is not a hot bed of terror. Finally, with a foothold in Afganisthan, of course, India is going to keep a watchful eye over TSP's machinations. It is only to be expected from a regional power who has had to face the brunt of TSP's diabolical terrorist double dealings.

Except for academics in Harvard, Stanford, Oxford etc, such detailed nuances are hard to come by in the corporate, govt mouthpiece media. And even among the honest academics, some of whom share the India containment objective, there is silence for the most part, and hence it suits US for the most part to lap up these TSP lies and repeat them with defeaning repitition.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Jul 2010 20:58

Brad Goodman:

The Shukla dude is glaringly wrong on one count: TSP's terror has been a success because as long as it was confined to India including J&K, there was no global opprobrium as he mentions. Rather, there is both tacit and overt support to TSP from western powers. Ask him to go back to archives, and I'd like to see how many times a western leader has spoken so bluntly about TSP terror against India as UK PM David Camerson did yesterday. I would say not even a few instances that one can find.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Jul 2010 21:04

Which is why I posted above that Half the battle is won the other half will soon be won due to the brilliant actions of TSP.

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Jul 2010 21:05

X Posted from the ISI thread.

Excerpt of portion dealing with the fomenting of Islamic Terrorism by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan from NDTV interview of UK Prime Minister David Cameron:

British PM David Cameron speaks to NDTV: Full transcript

Updated: July 29, 2010 14:46 IST ……………………….

Prannoy Roy: As you know India is involved in aid and reconstruction... so when these wikiLeaks came out and showed that American and England are working with the Pakistan army and the ISI knowingly and these are forces which have helped the Taliban, the violence...how can you work with the force that helps violence and helps terrorism?

David Cameron: What we have to do in our relationship with Pakistan is to encourage Pakistan to go after the militants and the terrorists on their side of the border and to be fair to Pakistan they have made progress in arresting members of Al-Qaida and in pushing the terrorist from their side of the border. Do we want them to do more? Of course we do but we are going to solve this problem if we have good relationship with Pakistan as well as the work we are doing in Afghanistan. That is essential.

Prannoy Roy: You have been so forthright in your statements, apologizing to the people of Northern Ireland, your recent statement describing Gaza. Is there some regret that you can say, to people of India? Working with the ISI according to all these documents found, now admitted by US as well, working with ISI which has helped in bombing in Kabul, in the Indian embassy and helped in the Mumbai attacks... some regret?

David Cameron: First of all, I feel the deepest sympathy for the people in India and for the Government for the loss that you have suffered from terrorism. We too in Britain have suffered on the streets of London where terrorism in some cases, emanated from the same part of the world. And that is what I said today... it is unacceptable within Pakistan to support terrorism and terrorist groups elsewhere. We need to work with the Pakistan Government to make sure we close down all of the terrorism that exists from Pakistan... that is very clear and that is what our relationship is about.

Prannoy Roy: So what you are saying is that Pakistan is supporting terrorism and you want them to stop that?

David Cameron: What I have said is that it is unacceptable for anything to happen within Pakistan that is about the promotion of terror elsewhere and to be fair to the Pakistan Government they have taken steps to deal with some of the problems and we have seen great activity by them and we welcome and support that and everyone who wants to see stability should support that. Does more need to happen? Of course it does.

Prannoy Roy: You are worried about the terrorism in the western part of the Pakistan but on the eastern side, where they have got camps, you have the same problem that we have been talking about for years... cross-border terrorism. But you are on the western side so are you also worried about the eastern side cross-border terrorism to India?

David Cameron: Of course, but we want to see a stable and democratic Pakistan, we want to see a stable and secure Afghanistan, we want to see over time a better relationship between India and Pakistan and it is all in our interest that there is better stability security and relationship in this part of the world and good for all of us throughout the world. But we don't see our relationship with India... this special relationship with India that I am talking about....we don't see that through the prism of the problems that come out of it.

Prannoy Roy: So you de-link?

David Cameron: I don't link those two. I see a relationship with India which is about our mutual corporation for our mutual advantage, whether that is business, whether that is trade, the cultural exchanges and relationship between our countries... that is a good thing in itself irrespective of any conversations we might have about a stable and secure Afghanistan.

Prannoy Roy: Now that you have raised economic issues, just to summarize, and if I am wrong please correct me, I am bound to exaggerate what you have said... one is that you would like to see Pakistan to do more within their country and two, Britain will not mediate or interfere in the Kashmir at all?

David Cameron: I have said on both these points very clearly what I want to see happen. Of course we want India and Pakistan to discuss issues between them and it is better for them. Absolutely!

Prannoy Roy: Between them?

David Cameron: In terms of terrorism, nothing happens within Pakistan that supports terrorism. And we will support the Pakistan Government in what they do to stop that and be fair to them. They too have suffered from terrorism themselves but we need to make sure that this work continues.

Prannoy Roy: No regret working with ISI one last time?

David Cameron: I have said what I have to say.

NDTV

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Jul 2010 21:14

Afghan President Hamid Karzai demands action against the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for fomenting Islamic Terrorism in Afghanistan.

From ABC, the Australian one:

Karzai urges allies to strike Pakistan

The BBC take;

Karzai suggests West not acting over Pakistan Taliban

The view of Reuters:

Afghan president asks why allies won't act on Pakistan

And that of AFP:

Karzai asks West to destroy Pakistan militant havens

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Jul 2010 21:16

Karzai remarks 'incomprehensible': FO

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Jul 2010 21:18

derkonig wrote:^^^
Uncle Tom to the TFTA ghazis.
Remember the 400 crores that Gandhi baba forced India to give them at the time of Independence esp. while India was herself short of capital. And don't forget the trade links (it doesn't matter what the trade balance is, Paki imports is akin to financing terror). What about the lopsided IWT treaty? We may not give them aid in currency, but we are the provide them with significant monetary gain.

derkonig garu,

small correction. MKG forced GOI to pay 20 Crs in 1948. It is equivalent to > Rs 2000 crores just taking the inflation into consideration.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 29 Jul 2010 21:26

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... n-pakistan

Milli poodle defends the pakbarian animals...

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 29 Jul 2010 21:28

92000 documents released, 1 for each pow in the 71 war?! Any overanalyzing conspirazeee takers here

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 29 Jul 2010 21:32

Floods in PoK, Punjab and Balochistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2010 21:39

burp...

ate up my words

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jul 2010 21:42

amit, One last time to don't bring in India in the TSP thread. Please consider this as a caution. You can duck but it wont save you next time. If you want to talk about Indian there are many threads for that.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 29 Jul 2010 21:46

shiv

C&P ...Will Edit now

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 29 Jul 2010 21:49

Suppiah wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... n-pakistan

Milli poodle defends the pakbarian animals...

Check the comments in there. The people are understanding the deception of terrorist wackos of the Labor Party. This crook will be wiping the floors of the jail cell if he does not stop aiding Puke terrorists in London.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Jul 2010 22:35

Amusing to see TSP RAPE whining at the slightest attempt to point out their dealing and deviation from the equal equal with India that they ae so accustomed to. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/29/pakistan-damned-if-we-do-damned-if-we-dont.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 29 Jul 2010 22:50

Pakistan cannot play both sides forever

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 29 Jul 2010 23:06

PM blames Qureshi for India-Pak talks breakdown
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 234264.cms

The way I see is... this is what happened to Quereshi : Headshot Headshot! Fatality!! Fatality!

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 29 Jul 2010 23:17

CRamS wrote:Amusing to see TSP RAPE whining at the slightest attempt to point out their dealing and deviation from the equal equal with India that they ae so accustomed to. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/29/pakistan-damned-if-we-do-damned-if-we-dont.

One of the comments: (may be BR guy perhaps

)

In contrast, Pakistani demands for a similar nuclear deal with the west have been met with consistent refusal

Guess why? 3 simple words - Abdul Qadeer Khan

Maybe if Pakistan had not operated a rogue underground nuclear wal-mart with state support for 20 years, the world would have been more open about giving you a nuclear deal. Anyway, why fear, China's there, you'll get all the technology you want, deal or no deal.

The irony is that, rhetoric aside, little else will change in our relationship with the west

100% true, though not in the way you mean it. The West will continue overlooking Pakistan's duplicity and keep shelling out $ 1.5 bn. a year to enable Pakistan to fight the war on its behalf. When you talk of the sacrifices that Pakistan has made, please remember, those sacrifices are made by a bunch of poor saps who don't have the money to barricade themselves from terrorist groups, the military and political elite have to make no sacrifices at all, they just sit back and worry about which Swiss bank to park their funds in. It's a nice little arrangement which will definitely not be altered by David Cameron's after dinner speech at the Drones Club.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Jul 2010 23:28

^ Can you call something a sacrifice if it is offered for a price, and paid for?

All TSP's anti-terror deaths are compensated, as begged/blackmailed by TSPA. So TSP cannot call them "sacrifices".

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 30 Jul 2010 00:45

‘100,000 settlers have migrated from Balochistan’

He said from January to July 13, this year 252 settlers including 13 officers of Pakistan Army, 21 officers of FC, 27 Police officials, 26 Punjabis, 21 Pashtoons, 12 Sindhis and 112 from other parts of country have died in target killings.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 30 Jul 2010 01:09

CRamS wrote:Amusing to see TSP RAPE whining at the slightest attempt to point out their dealing and deviation from the equal equal with India that they ae so accustomed to. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/29/pakistan-damned-if-we-do-damned-if-we-dont.

TSP has this good old rhetoric of equating itself with other countries as a victim of terrorism. A guy has spoiled his kid and that kid goes on vandalizing the neighborhood. Now when the neighbors complain if the dad claims that he himself is a victim of his kid's antics then wouldn't they feel like shoving something down the man's throat?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Jul 2010 01:27

KrishG wrote:
CRamS wrote:Amusing to see TSP RAPE whining at the slightest attempt to point out their dealing and deviation from the equal equal with India that they ae so accustomed to. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/29/pakistan-damned-if-we-do-damned-if-we-dont.

Brit are half of Paki fatherhood so Poaks will always be sensitive . It was British who provided the "khatta: to make Paki "Dahi" in hope they will get the butter but Alhamdolilllah Other half of Paki fathehood made sure that Paki remain Khatti lassi and that too getting old and stinking to high jannat so much so that even Hoors have to work with One hand.
Slowly Slowly all the protector of Poak Brain Virginity are gasping for fresh air and ready to quit the task.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 01:33

Lalmohan wrote:those of you that regularly write in letters to the editor etc., how about countering the above with "pakistan has aggressively tried to encircle india for decades with x, y, z, and even now seeks to attack her by proxy from afghanistan... whilst colluding with china to support various insurgencies... with a single minded aggressive posture against a largely pacifist state focused on development and the economy..."

We need a dedicated letter-writing thread. Who's with me?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 30 Jul 2010 02:54

Most Pakistanis see US as an enemy: poll

A majority of Pakistanis view the United States as an enemy, oppose the US-led war in Afghanistan and are less concerned about the Taliban and Al-Qaeda than a year ago, a Pew Research poll said Thursday. Send money!

Despite billions of dollars in economic and military aid received from Washington, the United States' image in Pakistan was the lowest among the 22 nations included in the 2010 Pew Global Attitudes Survey of 2,000 Pakistanis taken between April 13-28. Send more money.

relatively few believe the Taliban and Al-Qaeda pose a serious threat to their country. Send boat loads of money

the Taliban was rated as a serious threat by 54 percent, against 73 percent last year, and Al-Qaeda's threat perception fell to 38 percent, from 61 percent Now you really need to send more money. Dont make me beg.

When asked which was the bigger threat, Taliban, Al-Qaeda or India, 53 percent chose neighboring India over 23 percent for the Taliban and only three percent for Al-Qaeda. Money! money! money!

This just in. Most porki men consider goats as "Man's best friend".