Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Anindya » 19 Jul 2010 07:39

[India has capacity to focus on whole SA community]

absolutely - support for a few more nations like Baluchistan, Balwaristan & Sindh will clearly allow Pakistanis (or ex Pakistanis) to mold their aggression properly towards each other - allowing Ugandans, south Koreans, singaporeans, spanish, americans and others to live and grow in peace.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shiv » 19 Jul 2010 07:39

ajit_tr wrote:India has capacity to focus on whole SA community.If indian focus in whole SA can be its stepping stone into the bigger stakes at the world stage.


Translation - "We Pakis are holding Indians down. You pay us and we will allow you to rise"

Now you all know where we hear this sort of stuff. The thing is some dumbass Indians actually believe this crap and BRF with its hundreds of thousands of hits is now encouraging this pakiness. And people blame MMS? :roll:

Frankly I have not contributed to BR for so long just to have a Paki finger inserted up my backside.

Gay Hind to all of you.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shiv » 19 Jul 2010 07:51

ajit_tr wrote:
shiv wrote:ajit_tr said: IS BRF got hacked????

Not BRF. The BR news section - by your brothers. Check their language.
Silver-lining is that guys are not illiterate if molded properly their talent can be used for the betterment of the SA community.


Congratulations Indiots of BRF. These are the people whose talents help bring BR down. Enjoy the Peace Process.

Jagan wrote:just a note. the news section is being bought down temporarily. unfortunately, the rest of the main page will also be down for the duration, while we try to fix the holes.


Muppalla wrote:
Jagan wrote:keep watching it please. I have taken some temporary measures.


Jagan garu, The vermin is back.

For all the BR members: Do not click on the links as they have potential viruses.


I have clicked and my virus software caught it from execution.


Gay Hind.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby putnanja » 19 Jul 2010 08:06

After barbs, set to bump

...
Sources in New Delhi said diplomats on the two sides of the border had agreed to manoeuvre a Krishna-Qureshi “pull-aside” in the Afghan capital. The sources also hinted that the initiative for such a meeting had come from Islamabad with Qureshi telephoning Krishna on Saturday evening.

The initiative to smooth ruffled feathers are being attributed to several factors.

Some sources suggested that US secretary of state Hillary Clinton had something to do with Qureshi’s efforts to tone down the rancour he had exhibited since the snarled joint media conference on Thursday.

Hillary, who landed in Islamabad today on a two-day visit, does not want to walk into a new South Asian problem: she has enough on her plate without having to deal with a continuing India-Pakistan spat.

Besides, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), a Pakistan Army headquarters outfit, has realised that Qureshi, having been told to toe the military’s line, outdid his brief and created a public relations disaster for Pakistan.

Pakistan Army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani’s extension is also coming up. He does not want to be viewed in Washington as a stumbling block to peace with India.
:roll:

Analysts believe that under the circumstances, the Pakistani establishment had come around to the view that the best bet now is to hope for a “smooth waiting period” and see how Kashmir develops.

Officials in Delhi confirmed that Krishna would have a bilateral meeting with Hillary in Kabul on Tuesday. They also did not rule out

...
...
The Pakistani side “understands that in diplomacy you have to weigh your words very carefully because the impact of words can go far beyond just words themselves. And I am sure they realise that”, she added.

Rao said India did not want to get drawn into slanging matches.

...
...


As usual, the pakis suffering from the perinneal foot-in-the-mouth disease, realized later on how absurd their minister's press conference looked.

So the US seems to be playing some role behind the scenes too.

Why is Kayani worried about his extension wrt US? Does he believe that the US will put pressure on paki govt to not extend Kayani's term?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby putnanja » 19 Jul 2010 08:10

Krishna’s schedule in Pak was changed for Kayani


A last-minute switch in the schedule of External Affairs Minister S M Krishna on Thursday afternoon gives a clue to how the script went wrong in Islamabad.


...
According to his schedule, Krishna was to meet Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani at 3:30 pm. This was to be followed by a call on President Asif Ali Zardari at 5:30 pm.



But just 15 minutes prior to his departure, Krishna was informed that the order has been reversed and the call on Zardari would precede his meeting with Gilani. In the time slot that Krishna was to meet Gilani, Pakistan’s Army Chief Ashfaq Pervez Kayani met the PM. Kayani had also met Zardari. When the talks resumed after Krishna’s meetings with Zardari and Gilani, the atmosphere totally changed and Pakistan took an unexpectedly stringent posture.
...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 19 Jul 2010 08:25

Tere Bin Laden (its ban) sets off a debate in Pakistan?
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... r-hate-870

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shiv » 19 Jul 2010 08:31

putnanja wrote:
So the US seems to be playing some role behind the scenes too.

Why is Kayani worried about his extension wrt US? Does he believe that the US will put pressure on paki govt to not extend Kayani's term?



Behind the scenes India US cooperating is what I have been saying for weeks now. The idea is to reduce the excuse of "India threat" so the army in Pak starts hitting Taliban. Kayanis extension is 400% certain. The US will not remove its puppet and Kayani is a US puppet if you look at the way he made Qureshi behave with Clinton after the strategic dialog.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby putnanja » 19 Jul 2010 08:32

Chhindits is reporting an extension to kayani ...

Flash* : Kayani Gets Extension !! Is Another Musharraf In The Making ?

An extension of service has been given to Pakistan Army Chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, by the Pakistan Government. Gen Kayani, who became Chief of Pakistan Army in 2007, was due for retirement in November 2010.
...
...
Pakistan sources said, "Its not sure if the extension is for a year or two, as the Chief is only 58 at the moment. But the internal security council decides based on the requirements and the Chief's age, which is finally approved by the Prime Minister.



In the Pakistan Military, Army Chiefs retire either after 40 years of service or 60 years of age, whichever is early. General Kayani, an infantry officer, from the Baloch regiment, was commissioned in 1971 and after completing three years as Chief, still has age on his side.

...
...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby vijayk » 19 Jul 2010 08:33

ajit_tr wrote:India has capacity to focus on whole SA community.If indian focus in whole SA can be its stepping stone into the bigger stakes at the world stage.


Sure we will. First you have to get up from the bed, the bed on which all Pukes are lying and trying to hit the ceiling with your pee hoping to collapse it. Not sure about the ceiling but certainly you guys are getting a taste of it. :rotfl:
Last edited by vijayk on 19 Jul 2010 08:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 19 Jul 2010 08:33

RAPE makes it into the daily times!
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_4

It is forgotten, of course, that even today many of our people are forced to live in conditions far worse than feudal England. This is particularly true of places where the British influence during the Raj was limited. The people there are bound by horrendous customs and are left to subsist below a reasonable human level. The excuse given to them is a religious one and the way out is also religious. Mullahs and pirs, our witchdoctors and shysters, mislead the people into accepting their lot. The reaction is even worse — Taliban recruitment. The Taliban give the dirt poor an opportunity to stand up on the authority of religion. In its callousness, the rich Anglophone Pakistani elite has shot itself in the foot.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shiv » 19 Jul 2010 08:38

A_Gupta wrote:RAPE makes it into the daily times!
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_4

It is forgotten, of course, that even today many of our people are forced to live in conditions far worse than feudal England. This is particularly true of places where the British influence during the Raj was limited. The people there are bound by horrendous customs and are left to subsist below a reasonable human level. The excuse given to them is a religious one and the way out is also religious. Mullahs and pirs, our witchdoctors and shysters, mislead the people into accepting their lot. The reaction is even worse — Taliban recruitment. The Taliban give the dirt poor an opportunity to stand up on the authority of religion. In its callousness, the rich Anglophone Pakistani elite has shot itself in the foot.


:mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby pgbhat » 19 Jul 2010 08:38

Mullah Shiv infiltration attempt into Pak Chai Ghar was successful I suppose. :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby CalvinH » 19 Jul 2010 09:02

Did we missed this:
5 Pakistanis among 20 held for Uganda blasts

At least the whole world is awakening to the fact that every paki is a potential terrorist.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Jul 2010 09:45

abhishek_sharma wrote:
But Siachen proved a harder nut to crack. Apart from the absence of a timeline, the Indian desire to refer to future interlocutors on the subject as “relevant officials” rather than the two Defence Secretaries was another obstacle.


Why is this an obstacle?

It seems that the Hindu is narrating from the Paki POV.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Jul 2010 09:49

shiv wrote:
Muppalla wrote:Who may have approved Pillai to make such statement exactly during talks? Something is not right. I clearly see two sections inside Indian admin (or a coordinated hot+cold approach). One a clear destructor of any talks with TSP while the other is desperate to do something. In every mini round we see a clear pattern.


On BR we are never surprised when we hear conflicting voices coming from the US. We have on here people who are intelligent and informed enough to say "Oh that is a neo-con". XYZ is a Democrat, ABC is a Republican, PQR is a cold warrior, LMN is a Rush Limbaugh clone.

However we are puzzled by the appearance of the same democratic difference in views from India because we are unable to apply the classifications that we know so much about in the US. We see often see things as "Kaangress- traitor", BJP nationalist. Anything outside this is a big mystery.


But Pillai garu is not a free agent, he is a senior civil servant, a tribe that typically speaks with some discipline and echoes the official line, yes? No question of democratic difference here, I should think.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shiv » 19 Jul 2010 09:51

KLNMurthy wrote:But Pillai garu is not a free agent, he is a senior civil servant, a tribe that typically speaks with some discipline and echoes the official line, yes?


Well if that is the case it only means that Pillai's statement was officially sanctioned. No?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby SSridhar » 19 Jul 2010 09:56

How not to have a round of talks
The above article brings forth Pakiness in its full splendour and no wonder it appears in The Hindu. The author is Imtiaz Alam, who has served as the SAFMA's Secretary General for a long time now, cleverly pushing the Pakistani agenda. He frequently travels to India under the SAFMA garb and has possibly infiltrated Indian media houses. I am highlighting here how he effortlessly slides the pin into a banana (literal translation from Tamil) at times and openly threatens at other times.
It seems that the Indian Home Ministry vetoed any movement on any count other than satisfactory action by Pakistan's Ministry of Interior against all those allegedly involved in the 26/11 Mumbai act of terror.
this is what seems to have disturbed most Mr. Krishna's quite articulate Pakistani counterpart
Mr. Qureshi's sweet Seraiki talk and sensible urge to push for the resumption of composite dialogue
harder positions taken by the respective security apparatuses
A bi-partisan consensus does not exist in India now;
General Musharraf did push the process to the point of a major breakthrough even on Kashmir, but Indians delayed it till the time the former military dictator lost his ground.
In Pakistan's case, the Zardari government did show the courage to make some fresh moves, but it was hamstrung by the Mumbai backlash. Finding no response from New Delhi,
Regardless of Mr. Qureshi's equaliser meant to cast his counterpart in a pathetic position {The Pakistani media is going overboard in ridiculing Mr. SM Krishna}
a courteous Shah Mehmood Qureshi would never have liked to be
Islamabad is no more in a hurry to comply with any Indian preconditions.{That is exactly the truth. GK Pillai's statement should be seen in that context. The Pakistanis have absolutely no intention and no need to move forward because the US condones their prevarications. Pillai's statement was to bring it to the open. The US is annoyed because it does not want Pakistan to be embarrassed at India's hands. Let's remember that the US has made more scathing comments involving ISI, PA, Osama, Haqqanis, Mullah Omar and others}
Conscious of the need to ensure security during the October 2010 Commonwealth Games in New Delhi, the Manmohan Singh government tactically agreed to negotiations while exerting pressure on Pakistan on Mumbai and in seeking to restrain jehadis from crossing the Line of Control.{See how Pakistan is able to use terror as a state policy and easily get away with it too. It does not want to guarantee any measures to control the jihadis and so scuttles the meeting and conveniently shifts the blame on GK Pillai}
One more terror strike in India can lead to unseen and unaffordable consequences. There could even be a limited war that could get out of hand {Ahh. . issuing the usual nuclear threat}, and that could alter the entire strategic environment and upset the whole design of the war on terror.{Warning to Americans} This is the likely scenario that must make everybody in the region and the world at large wake up.
Let not either side become a hostage to self-delusionary strategic devices. The war on terror in Pakistan and Afghanistan has entered a critical stage which no power in the region and the world can afford to lose. Both sides must provide a way out and offer face-saving measures to those who can deliver. {Who are those who can 'deliver' ? Of course, only Pakistanis. So, the world must support them not only in the Afghan issue but also on the India issue}Let us get over the Mumbai fallout, put the culprits on trial, go back to spirit of the January 6, 2004 statement and pick the thread of negotiations where it was left in 2007 — instead of seeking to reinvent the wheel.


I think India deserves such condescending and patronizing sermons from a bit player like this Pakistani because we have invited the Pakistani problem upon ourselves.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Rudradev » 19 Jul 2010 10:24

sum wrote:From orbat:

The second Pakistan claim is that in the kingdom of Junagarh, a Muslim king ruled a Hindu majority - mirror image of Kashmir. The King's subjects begged for Indian intervention when the king decided for Pakistan. Saying a Hindu majority could not be ruled by an Muslim, India annexed Junagarh.
*

The Pakistanis say it is only after this outrage and breach of the independence agreement that they invaded Kashmir. This may be, but they would have invaded regardless, because as far as Pakistan was concerned, Kashmir was destined to be part of Pakistan.
*


The Orbat article does not do enough to demolish the Pakfilth propaganda of Junagarh being a "mirror image" of J&K. While the Maharaja of Kashmir was the victim of Pakistani military aggression against his state, Nawab Mahabat Khanji of Junagarh on the other hand showed his Pakistaniyat by not only choosing to accede to Pakistan but himself carrying out military aggression against states that were HIS neighbours.

Here is how it played out. Nawab Khanji of Junagarh, despite ruling over a princely state that was 80% Hindu, wanted to accede to Pakistan. India was not happy but per the India Independence Act of 1947, Nawab Khanji was very well within his rights to do this (just as Maharaja Hari Singh was completely within his rights to sign a legal, irrevocable and final Instrument of Accession to India). So GOI at the time could NOT (and did NOT) do what the Pakfilth liars say... ie, they did not oppose Junagarh's accession to Pakistan on the basis of it's Hindu majority.

However, the Nawab of Junagarh did not stop at merely choosing to accede to Pakistan. He invaded and annexed two adjoining princely states of Saurashtra... Babariawad and Mangrol... and tried to compel them ALSO to accede to Pakistan. Using typical Pakfilth techniques... Razakars, organized pogroms against Hindus, military intimidation etc. This is the part of the Junagarh story that completely diverges from any parallel that the Pakfilth try to draw to Kashmir.

Babariawad and Mangrol had no intention of acceding to Pakistan but Nawab Khanji of Junagarh invaded their territory and tried to force their rulers to accede to Pakistan along with him. The rulers of Babariawad and Mangrol, under threat from Junagarh, acceded to India and asked the Indian government for help. Sardar Patel sent IA troops to their rescue.

Immediately Nawab Khanji of Junagarh Pakistaned in his shalwar. He did not even wait to find out what would happen. In true Martial Paki style, he gathered up his riches and his women and fled his princely state for Pakistan as the IA troops approached.

At this point Junagarh was a leaderless state abandoned by it's princely ruler. There was no question of it's acceding to any country because there was no ruler to sign any instrument of accession. So the only alternative (as conceded in writing by the Dewan of Junagarh, the pro-tem in charge after Nawab fled) was to hold a plebiscite. Note that this justification for plebiscite does not apply to J&K AT ALL, because J&K very much had a sitting ruler (Maharaja Hari Singh) who signed his state's accession to India when Kashmir was illegally invaded by Pakistan. Junagarh was *abandoned* by it's ruler so plebiscite was the only option. With an 80% Hindu population, Junagarh of course voted for India in the plebiscite. But had the Nawab not abandoned his state there could never have legally been any plebiscite.

That is how plebiscite came to be held in Junagarh but not in J&K. There was no legal basis for holding it in J&K because Maharaja Hari Singh with full authority to sign an instrument of accession, signed it to India; whereas Nawab Mahabat Khanji of Junagarh, a landgrabbing Paki pig to the core, fled his own state after his Paki stunts of intimidating his neighbours that backfired on him. QED.

Incidentally the Dewan of Junagarh who agreed to a plebiscite after the Nawab fled was one Shahnawaz Bhutto. He himself went on to Pakistan and raised a long line of especially fetid piglings, including Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby SSridhar » 19 Jul 2010 10:43

Indo-Pak Talks: What Happened
To find some clues, meetings and interviews with some friends, known to represent the establishment mindset, revealed that it would be naïve to even think that agencies from both the sides were not playing their part in these talks. What might have brought a cool customer like Qureshi (many call him submissive) to set aside all basic norms, many diplomatic sources and establishment gurus believe, is the American double-talk with Pakistani Khakis over their proposed Afghan exit-strategy. :shock: {What a theory ! So, American exit strategy forced Quereshi to describe SM Krishna in crudest possible terms ?}

Whether they will able to pull out of the troubled Afghan lands, or whether their allies in NATO would be able to sustain the increasing number of body-bags (378 during this year so far, with over 50 percent belonging to the US) and financial burden (running into trillions of dollars), is not what matters, to Pakistani policy makers but what hurts them is the pressure from the US to share the Afghan turf with the Indians.

Many of them share the common perception that accusing Pakistan of being India-centric is as naïve as considering that Russians and Chinese have dumped their plans to have access to the warm waters or Americans are no more concerned about the Chinese or Iranian threat to their hegemony in the region.

In the face of cold-start strategies (India’s Pak-specific war doctrine) and prick-and-bleed policies being practiced on Pakistan’s soft-bellies like Balochistan and the north-western region, the Pakistani establishment is not ready to close its eyes to both internal and external factors threatening its very existence or strategic edge, especially when multiple forces with multiple designs are competing/operating simultaneously in its vicinity.

Strategic depth still remains the mainstay of the Pakistani establishment but due to a paradigm shift in the ground realities, bitter experience of dealing with the leftovers of the US-CIA-funded and ISI-run jihadi monster and changing scenarios of the region’s strategic importance in the coming days, this depth is no more dependent on sub-conventional actors, rather it is focused primarily on a visible deterrence and secondly, on a pro-active diplomacy.

In the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks in November 2008, India’s shutter-down approach towards Pakistan is well documented. Whereas, riding on its specially-developed relationship with the Americans and being a victim-of-terrorism-state itself, Pakistan has been gaining diplomatic currency in the recent past by not only showing its willingness to open bilateral or even trilateral talks with India but also to earn respect from the world bodies for its cooperative gestures, military adventures and strategic plus intelligence sharing acts. In return, the establishment has been asking to protect its strategic interest {so, it is not national interest, only PA's interest}, development as well as investment needs and instead of over-stretching the Pakistan Army from east to northwest, its primary concerns should be given due consideration.

Ranging from decades-old disputes such as Kashmir, water, Sir Creek and Siachen to recently added ones like the controversial dams, terrorism, and financing the insurgencies in each others’ terrains, both countries have adopted various means of proxy wars, yet they have managed to accumulate more problems then resolving any single one from the existing list. {Doesn't the fallout of SeS show up here ?}

Trust deficit, therefore, keeps surfacing whenever there are chances of heading towards conflict resolution. In this context many analysts believe that if the US plans to groom Afghanistan as another proxy war zone for not only India and Pakistan but to settle its scores with the other regional powers, then the mess is likely to multiply in magnitude and manifest. By constantly urging the Indians to play a crucial role in Afghanistan, they believe, the Americans are playing a game, which might backfire with severe consequences for all the stakeholders.

A high-profile Afghanistan conference is about to take place on July 20 in Kabul where US President Barack Obama’s diplomatic queen Hillary Clinton along with his military and strategic bigwigs will appear in person to share (as many diplomats consider dictate) the views of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, foreign ministers from 40 nations and 30 other delegates from interested nations and organisations.

According to a leaked agenda of the upcoming Kabul conference reported by a British newspaper, all the countries fighting in Afghanistan would announce to hand over the country’s security to the local Afghan Forces by 2014. If we give any credence to NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who had admitted recently in Brussels that the international community had “underestimated” the size of the challenge in Afghanistan, then we can only hope that hastening towards winding up this mission or concluding it without caring for the respective ‘national interests’ of all the stakeholders might not bode well for the region and the rest of the players involved. How the world leaders, led by the UN secretary general and aided by Secretary Clinton, will look at this is something which everyone will be interested to know, including both India and Pakistan. Therefore, analysts believe that any future developments between the nuclear-armed archrivals would be hinging partly on the outcome of this Kabul conference or largely on the broader American policy regarding Afghanistan and the region.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Jul 2010 10:54

amit wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:But really, its not as if woolly-headedness on part of our top leadership has not costed us tremendously in the past. Sure past is no perfect guide to the future but its not as if its no guide at all.


Hari ji,

Nobody, at least not me, is arguing against this point. Even the most manly of all our PMs, Indira Gandhi, showed remarkable woolly-headedness during Simla where she all but managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

But my point is this idea that one section of the GoI led by our dear PM is forever scheming to gift away Kashmir, water and just about everything under the sun to the Pakis and are being prevent by valiant efforts of a small section of desh bhakts doesn't add up. Especially when in the same breadth folks say the Rajmata is the final word on everything because the dear PM is a place holder; is a bumbling bureaucrat; vagera vagera.

if there's a screw up, like SES it is the fault of the entire leadership of INC. And if the strategy works very well, thank you, like the present case (of course IMVVVHO), then we should doff our hats to the entire INC leadership instead of speculating who save the day yet again.

JMT


This is entirely OT but perhaps I could be afforded some indulgence as the door to this topic has been opened...

I don't think Rajamata as absolute ruler and the existence of multiple factions within Cong are not two inconsistent things. It is the nature of any kind of centralized authority for there to be multiple factions, poles of power etc. Sonia can't run things solely with jee-huzoor robots, she needs at least a few competent people, which automatically means different lines of thought vying for her approval. A wise leader somewhat encourages such factions, and plays them off against each other.
She has identified MMS as one of the key people who will provide the needed competence. But MMS, aside from whatever economics skills he may possess (or not) is also a human being. A lot of human beings who were the products of Partition, including MMS, IKG, and even LKAdvani all have some very ambivalent feelings about the Pakis that cut them off from their family homes when they were children. I believe a big part of them hankers to somehow make things "all right" so that they can restore the integrity of "home" in their psyches.

We Indians are not big on trying to understand psychology (or piskology as it is known here on BRF); MMS et al certainly don't see this weakness on their part for using their power to make things so that their "home" is restored for them, even if they did, there is no tradition in the land that glorifies Purushottama (Porus) and Prithvi Raj Chauhan for a leader putting country ahead of personal preferences. We resort to explanations like "traitors" and some kind of mysterious conspiracy to gift away Kashmir etc., while the real explanation for the atrociously bad decisions lies in the sheer humanity and Indianness of MMS et al.

if I had my way, I would not allow near the seat of power any individual who was a child in Pureland at the time of Partition--the combination of trauma to the child's psyche, coupled with the child's ability to cover it up (even as the trauma shapes and misshapes the child's psyche all the while) is far too risky for the nation. I would also make every effort to knock Porus and Prithvi Raj from their pedestals, noting the contrast of their self-centered and selfish behavior as rulers with that of Sri Rama Chandra.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Anindya » 19 Jul 2010 10:59

[I would not allow near the seat of power any individual who was a child in Pureland at the time of Partition--the combination of trauma to the child's psyche, coupled with the child's ability to cover it up (even as the trauma shapes and misshapes the child's psyche all the while) is far too risky for the nation. I would also make every effort to knock Porus and Prithvi Raj from their pedestals, noting the contrast of their self-centered and selfish behavior as rulers with that of Sri Rama Chandra]

By similar reasoning, why do we have a foreign minister whose daughter and son-in-law are trying to expand their businesses (cafe coffee day) in Pakistan - a son-in-law who the minister is indebted to for bailing him out of the five-star hotel expenses mess.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby derkonig » 19 Jul 2010 11:40

KLNMurthy wrote:We Indians are not big on trying to understand psychology (or piskology as it is known here on BRF); MMS et al certainly don't see this weakness on their part for using their power to make things so that their "home" is restored for them, even if they did, there is no tradition in the land that glorifies Purushottama (Porus) and Prithvi Raj Chauhan for a leader putting country ahead of personal preferences. We resort to explanations like "traitors" and some kind of mysterious conspiracy to gift away Kashmir etc., while the real explanation for the atrociously bad decisions lies in the sheer humanity and Indianness of MMS et al.


This "Indicness" or goodness of heart of MMS is akin to all the "chankianness" that posters seem look for in MMS's actions be it SeS, Havana, piss process, but can never seem to find. Guess why? Its because there is none.
Inspite of repeated Paki perfidy, MMS continues his pappi jhappi with them & such repeated actions will sooner or later lead to gifting away of Indian lands. Any normal person with reasonable mental faculties can see the futility of India doing pappi jhappi with Pak. Hence, MMS with all his education & degrees should possess enough brains to understand the Paki gameplan. Heck, if 65 yrs of Paki evil are not enough to teach someone, shame on them.
Yet MMS seems hell bent on acheiving "peace in our times" with the Paki monster. Therefore, the only logical explanation that remains to MMS's behaviour is treachery.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby manjgu » 19 Jul 2010 11:49

Unless GOI realises that successful diplomacy is conducted with a danda ( military) to back it up .. it is not likely to be successsful ever when dealing with either Pakis or Chinese.. we need to beef up military capabilities, present them as a potent threat to the enemy and then talk.
I marvel at the incompetence of our politcal leadership and babus of all hues.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Sri » 19 Jul 2010 12:01

Pakistani Journo Interviewing Mulana Madani

1) Notice the defensive nature of the full drama... Things like ... "Why is there too much security in front of your house?

2) I found the discussion on Partition quite good... Mulana explains the Indian Muslim prospective well...

Overall Paki being Paki.... tried to reason unreasonable antidotes... Forces the good Mulana to accept faults in MK and JLN... Must watch though...

BTW, same Mulana gave Mushy hard time during India Today Conclave....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Jul 2010 12:06

shiv wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:But Pillai garu is not a free agent, he is a senior civil servant, a tribe that typically speaks with some discipline and echoes the official line, yes?


Well if that is the case it only means that Pillai's statement was officially sanctioned. No?


At some level, I suppose it was, perhaps by Chidambaram to whom he reports? I cannot pretend to fathom the wheels within wheels that run in the Indian establishment; cursed be the Official Secrets Act and the eunuch-like Indian media who do next to no semblance of investigative reporting that has any credibility.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Jul 2010 12:10

Anindya wrote:[I would not allow near the seat of power any individual who was a child in Pureland at the time of Partition--the combination of trauma to the child's psyche, coupled with the child's ability to cover it up (even as the trauma shapes and misshapes the child's psyche all the while) is far too risky for the nation. I would also make every effort to knock Porus and Prithvi Raj from their pedestals, noting the contrast of their self-centered and selfish behavior as rulers with that of Sri Rama Chandra]

By similar reasoning, why do we have a foreign minister whose daughter and son-in-law are trying to expand their businesses (cafe coffee day) in Pakistan - a son-in-law who the minister is indebted to for bailing him out of the five-star hotel expenses mess.


I had no idea this was the case, is it widely known?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Jul 2010 12:14

derkonig wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:We Indians are not big on trying to understand psychology (or piskology as it is known here on BRF); MMS et al certainly don't see this weakness on their part for using their power to make things so that their "home" is restored for them, even if they did, there is no tradition in the land that glorifies Purushottama (Porus) and Prithvi Raj Chauhan for a leader putting country ahead of personal preferences. We resort to explanations like "traitors" and some kind of mysterious conspiracy to gift away Kashmir etc., while the real explanation for the atrociously bad decisions lies in the sheer humanity and Indianness of MMS et al.


This "Indicness" or goodness of heart of MMS is akin to all the "chankianness" that posters seem look for in MMS's actions be it SeS, Havana, piss process, but can never seem to find. Guess why? Its because there is none.
Inspite of repeated Paki perfidy, MMS continues his pappi jhappi with them & such repeated actions will sooner or later lead to gifting away of Indian lands. Any normal person with reasonable mental faculties can see the futility of India doing pappi jhappi with Pak. Hence, MMS with all his education & degrees should possess enough brains to understand the Paki gameplan. Heck, if 65 yrs of Paki evil are not enough to teach someone, shame on them.
Yet MMS seems hell bent on acheiving "peace in our times" with the Paki monster. Therefore, the only logical explanation that remains to MMS's behaviour is treachery.


I suggest that there are other explanations. It is common for aged family patriarchs of a certain generations to make family decisions on an emotional basis without any rationality, and go into high dudgeon if challenged (Vajpayee used to do it also, going, I am so much your elder in years, how dare you challenge me? quite often, but I think he had a somewhat better quality intellect than MMS), yet be unable to articulate in any sensible terms the rationale (if any) for the decisions. Decisions to contract a disastrous "match" for daughters is typical case in point.

For some time, I have felt MMS in his decisionmaking process exhibits this kind of trait. His intellecutal heft is much exaggerated from what I have gathered.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Dilbu » 19 Jul 2010 12:18

The real test to see if this is indeed chanakya-giri or not will be to check the action taken on Mr. Pillai. If it is dog and pony action, MMS wins. Any strict or career threatening action will prove some mullahs on BRF right.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby yogi » 19 Jul 2010 12:23

Tax Free Living in Pakistan (video) | NYtimes Article
“This is a system of the elite, by the elite and for the elite,” said Riyaz Hussain Naqvi, a retired government official who worked in tax collection for 38 years. “It is a skewed system in which the poor man subsidizes the rich man.”

The problem starts at the top. The average worth of Pakistani members of Parliament is $900,000, with its richest member topping $37 million, according to a December study by the Pakistan Institute of Legislative Development and Transparency in Islamabad.


Mr. Zaidi blames the United States and its perpetual bailouts of Pakistan for the minuscule tax revenues from rich and poor alike. “The Americans should say: ‘Enough. Sort it out yourselves. Get your house in order first,’ ” he argued. “But you are cowards. You are afraid to take that chance.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 19 Jul 2010 12:28

Amber G. wrote:BTW, accompanying Clinton is Rajiv Shah (of USAID) ... who said something to the effect:
"We will not do what we’ve done in the past.”..
Image

Also..
For all those nay sayers ..... that these talks are useless etc ... unless we talk about really important things etc ... here is a news item..
about about US aid ..
Hillary Clinton participates in National Consultation on Birth Spacing
ISLAMABAD: A high level U.S. delegation accompanying United States Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton on Sunday participated in a “National Consultation on Birth Spacing” organised by the Ministry of Health here.
The U.S. delegation was led by the Administrator of USAID, Dr. Rajiv Shah and ....


Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Anindya » 19 Jul 2010 12:37

I had no idea this was the case, is it widely known?


The connection is well known, especially after the austerity move by the INC - Krishna was caught staying in a 5-star on tax-payer money - and his son-in-law bailed him out.

The issue of Cafe day spreading to Pakistan has been reported but not well known. Apart from google - there's a masaala version of Krishna's business connections at
http://www.politicsparty.com/diplomacy_india.php

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 19 Jul 2010 12:45

Approximately one in fifty of the UK's population is of Pakistani origin. This raises an interesting number of questions. The UK's relationship with the USA and with China being but one. The general attitude of British Pakistanis towards Pakistan as a nation is another. The ascendancy of Islamic traits is a third.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... b362b81e8a



Coming soon Britianistan with capital Londonabad ruled by mohtarma begum victoria :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Prasad » 19 Jul 2010 12:50



The Maulana drove the pukis face into $hit and presented it back to him. Wish the IM population throws up more people like him who're confident and proud of being IMs and rub the 2-nation theory of pukis into their pigsty.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Rudradev » 19 Jul 2010 12:56

shiv wrote:
(Qureishi) is not a person to be taken seriously. I can never forget the sheepish grin he had while he tangled his tufts with Hillary Clinton and claimed he was "very satisfied" with the strategic dialog that got him nothing. He is a piece of dog turd.


It's not all that clear thar his strategic dialogue got him nothing. Right now we're seeing the PRC offer TSP a nuclear deal, and apart from some token noises the US has done absolutely nothing to stop it going through the NSG. Very curious when you consider that the NSG itself was an organization put together by the US specifically to block the nuclear aspirations of India, and to give the NPT (a treaty directed essentially against India) punitive teeth behind a multilateral facade.

NSG (at US behest) locked out India very effectively for decades ... but it is suddenly powerless to block PRC proliferation to Pakistan? Hogwash. It seems to me that TSP got the next best thing to a nuclear deal from the US... a No Objection Certificate that the US would put up only token opposition to PRC-Paki nuclear trade at the NSG. Given political realities in the US (the Photochor scandal et al) this is in fact the closest thing to a nuclear deal that Washington can offer Pakistan. And it has done so.

So maybe Qureishi did indeed have reason to be very satisfied (unlike dear Manmohan Singh, who is pushing a Nuclear Liability Bill to Insure future Warren Andersons against having to pay a penny of compensation for the deaths of Indian citizens.)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby sum » 19 Jul 2010 13:26

US persuades Krishna, Qureshi to talk again in Kabul

The United States has reportedly persuaded the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan to continue the dialogue process, and meet again on the sidelines of an international conference in Kabul on Tuesday.

According to reports, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has talked to Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna as well as his Pakistani counterpart, Shah Mehmood Qureshi to raise the prospect of another "talk about talks".

Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai and UN chief Ban Ki-moon are to chair the conference, to be attended by up to 70 international representatives, including about 40 foreign ministers -- led by Clinton.

The conference will discuss the future of Afghanistan.

Clinton, who spoke to Krishna on Saturday, said she wanted to meet him separately at the summit, saying that she also 'disapproved' of the tone and tenor of Qureshi's language and behaviour during his interaction with the Pakistani media, The Daily Times reports.

The Secretary of State is believed to have told Krishna that she wanted to see the resumption of talks between India and Pakistan, and assured that Pakistan was being persuaded to take 'credible action' against the perpetrators of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks

We have even stopped pretending about resisting American pressure now?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Anindya » 19 Jul 2010 13:27

aman ki aasha put to rest - available in the print version, I believe...

Times View
The Times of India has actively championed the cause of peace between neighbours India and Pakistan, and continues to do so because it believes peace is in the interest of the two peoples. However, the path to peace cannot be strewn with bad faith and blatant misconduct—both of which Pakistan foreign minister Qureshi has displayed in ample measure. Minister Qureshi spurned India’s hand of friendship at the joint media briefing on Thursday when he equated terror merchant Hafeez Saeed with India’s home secretary G K Pillai. He did even worse on Friday when he called a press conference, at a time when his guest S M Krishna was still in Pakistan, only to ridicule the Indian minister by claiming that Krishna was not empowered to take decisions, and was constantly on the phone with Delhi. This is simply not a peace-makers’s conduct. It is that of a schoolboy bully. Let alone furthering the cause of peace, Qureshi has only raised India’s hackles. And since neither President Zardari nor PM Gilani has rebuked Qureshi so far for his misbehaviour, it appears the foreign minister has not been out of line with the establishment’s thinking. In that case, India can wait until Islamabad gets more sincere about peace. Meanwhile, let the message sink in—there can’t be progress in the peace process unless Pakistan shows greater sensitivity towards India’s hurt and anger at the fact that 26/11 masterminds are not just roaming free in Pakistan, but are preaching murderous hate against India. There can’t be any closure on 26/11 until there is justice.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby neeraj » 19 Jul 2010 13:28

I had khujli when I read the heading of the topic
IMF appreciates Pakistan's efforts - 17th July
Executive Director, International Monetary Fund (IMF) Dr. Jaffar Mojarrad has appreciated the efforts made in addressing the challenges faced by the government of Pakistan.

Khujli taken care of
IMF concerned over rising expenditure, inflation -19th July
A visiting mission of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has expressed concern over uncontrolled expenditure, rising inflation, slow revenue reforms and poor performance of the power sector.

An official told Dawn that “there were issues that lacked clarity on part of government policies and raised uncertainty about the continuation of the ($11.3 billion IMF) programme”.

The sources said the IMF mission was perturbed over continuous revenue leakages in the power sector and heavy system losses and stressed the need for increasing electricity tariffs by about 49 per cent during the current fiscal year :eek: to bridge a wide gap between revenue requirement and collection of power bills.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Dilbu » 19 Jul 2010 13:43

Anindya wrote:aman ki aasha put to rest - available in the print version, I believe...

Times View
The Times of India has actively championed the cause of peace between neighbours India and Pakistan, and continues to do so because it believes peace is in the interest of the two peoples. However, the path to peace cannot be strewn with bad faith and blatant misconduct—both of which Pakistan foreign minister Qureshi has displayed in ample measure. Minister Qureshi spurned India’s hand of friendship at the joint media briefing on Thursday when he equated terror merchant Hafeez Saeed with India’s home secretary G K Pillai. He did even worse on Friday when he called a press conference, at a time when his guest S M Krishna was still in Pakistan, only to ridicule the Indian minister by claiming that Krishna was not empowered to take decisions, and was constantly on the phone with Delhi. This is simply not a peace-makers’s conduct. It is that of a schoolboy bully. Let alone furthering the cause of peace, Qureshi has only raised India’s hackles. And since neither President Zardari nor PM Gilani has rebuked Qureshi so far for his misbehaviour, it appears the foreign minister has not been out of line with the establishment’s thinking. In that case, India can wait until Islamabad gets more sincere about peace. Meanwhile, let the message sink in—there can’t be progress in the peace process unless Pakistan shows greater sensitivity towards India’s hurt and anger at the fact that 26/11 masterminds are not just roaming free in Pakistan, but are preaching murderous hate against India. There can’t be any closure on 26/11 until there is justice.

Is this for real? Some one saw the light at last.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 19 Jul 2010 13:55

Sri wrote:Pakistani Journo Interviewing Mulana Madani

1) Notice the defensive nature of the full drama... Things like ... "Why is there too much security in front of your house?

2) I found the discussion on Partition quite good... Mulana explains the Indian Muslim prospective well...

Overall Paki being Paki.... tried to reason unreasonable antidotes... Forces the good Mulana to accept faults in MK and JLN... Must watch though...

BTW, same Mulana gave Mushy hard time during India Today Conclave....



Pretty solid interview. Madani sounds like a nice guy in this interview.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby K Mehta » 19 Jul 2010 14:09

Rudradev wrote:Incidentally the Dewan of Junagarh who agreed to a plebiscite after the Nawab fled was one Shahnawaz Bhutto. He himself went on to Pakistan and raised a long line of especially fetid piglings, including Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

My grandfather, who was under the patronage of the nawab of radhanpur, had the pleasure of meeting the gentlemen. Quite courteous according to him, and was quite popular amongst the populace too. Unfortunately his offsprings are different matter.

from this link
According to Professor Khachar, Shahnawaz Bhutto had played a vital role in the Nawab's decision to merge Junagadh with Pakistan. However, before leaving for Pakistan, Shahnawaz personally instructed senior officers to hand over Junagadh state to the Union of India. On November 8, he signed some papers at his Diwan office and left Junagadh forever. On November 9, the British political agent and senior officer of the Junagadh state, Captain Harve Jones finally handed over Junagadh to Indian officials.


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