Indian Naval Discussion

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 23 Mar 2011 03:35

khukri wrote:Just saw IN Il-38 IN305 at Muscat airport


We have an agreement with them to base our maritime aircraft in Oman as part of counter piracy initiative. Press reports indicated Do-228 will be sent :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby negi » 23 Mar 2011 03:38

IL-38SDs belong to INAS 315.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 23 Mar 2011 04:25


Gerard
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gerard » 23 Mar 2011 06:26


Baldev
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Baldev » 23 Mar 2011 09:05

its because of they make khichdi frigate,gas turbines from america,sensors weapons from russia,israel,europe and then take 10 years to build.

even then no good to save it because of single arm SAM launcher being too slow .
to handle multiple air threats.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2011 09:50

Baldev wrote:its because of they make khichdi frigate,gas turbines from america,sensors weapons from russia,israel,europe and then take 10 years to build.


Indian Navy are the best system integrators in the world , its a magic wonder they could integrate systems from east,west and indiginous ones on a single ship and make it work, if i am not mistaken no other shipbuilder and design organisation ever managed to do such a thing.

the downfall is it would simply add up to the cost in the long run and would be a pain dealing with so many oem , needless to mention logistics aspect.

The audit watchdog has slammed the 240% jump in "approved costs" of Project-17 to build three 4,900-tonne Shivalik-class stealth frigates and Project-15A to construct three 6,500-tonne Kolkata-class destroyers, both of which are also running five years behind schedule at Mazagon Docks (MDL) after they were first approved in 1998 and 2001 respectively.


I was under the impression these ships were built on fixed cost but no time limit basis , 240 % jump is a massive one some thing MDL and IN will have to work on Project Management aspect.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2011 09:52

Rakesh wrote:Maybe we should go for F/A-18 after all! The E/A-18G would be NICE :wink:


Rakesh long time but good to see you in action , hope to see more of you on this thread ,remind me of early years of last decade :wink:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 23 Mar 2011 13:55

Austin wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Maybe we should go for F/A-18 after all! The E/A-18G would be NICE :wink:


Rakesh long time but good to see you in action , hope to see more of you on this thread ,remind me of early years of last decade :wink:


Yes, the promise of the mithai equal to the displacement of a certain asset about to enter IN service. The one that keeps on getting delayed by 6 months every 6 months. :P
:(( :((

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gaurav_S » 23 Mar 2011 14:50

From above article

CAG also pulled up MDL for including "inadmissible items" like mobile phones, cordless phones, DVD players and air and train fare towards construction costs.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Baldev » 23 Mar 2011 18:40

Austin wrote:
Baldev wrote:its because of they make khichdi frigate,gas turbines from america,sensors weapons from russia,israel,europe and then take 10 years to build.


Indian Navy are the best system integrators in the world , its a magic wonder they could integrate systems from east,west and indiginous ones on a single ship and make it work, if i am not mistaken no other shipbuilder and design organisation ever managed to do such a thing.

the downfall is it would simply add up to the cost in the long run and would be a pain dealing with so many oem , needless to mention logistics aspect.
well it leads them nowhere except delay and the delay is not because of sensors integration but because of hull construction which is terribly slow.

in shivalik they got 3 radar but only one SAM launcher. consider 5 theats coming simultaneously at this point to fire 5 SAM it will take 60 seconds and by this time its game over.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby khukri » 23 Mar 2011 19:46

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:@ Khukri- Is there an email address to reach you at?


Mukesh: khukri53 at yahoo dot com

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby khukri » 23 Mar 2011 19:49

shyamd wrote:We were due to have an exercise with Oman this month as well as with KSA, looks like things have been postponed for later this year. They would use the military side of the Seeb Airport. It's probably just re-fueling after a sortie.

We use Dorniers mainly for Anti Piracy surveillance ops right? Il-38s are for ASW work as Sum correctly pointed out? In fact IN305 was the first to be upgraded with the Sea Dragon suite back in 2004.

Indian naval ships on Anti piracy ops use Salalah mainly I believe.


It wasn't parked on the military side of the airport - our Omanair flight actually parked itself about 25 meters from IN305. I was able to get a clear view of the aicraft and read the numbers.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 23 Mar 2011 21:40

Baldev wrote:

in shivalik they got 3 radar but only one SAM launcher. consider 5 theats coming simultaneously at this point to fire 5 SAM it will take 60 seconds and by this time its game over.

3 Radars? there is only two Fregat and El/M-2238. Also you forgot about 32 Barak cells 8)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2011 22:36

Baldev wrote:in shivalik they got 3 radar but only one SAM launcher. consider 5 theats coming simultaneously at this point to fire 5 SAM it will take 60 seconds and by this time its game over.


Shtil-1 is an area defense SAM and chances are you will have more then one ship defending your fleet so 5 threats will have to deal with multiple Shtil-1 ,Barak-1 ,AK-630M ,EW/ECM and Decoys (Soft Kill ) all of them working in an integrated manner ,so a threat will have to deal with multiple defensive system

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 24 Mar 2011 07:15



The complete CAG Report on the “Indigenous Construction of Indian Naval Warships” cited by the articles is available here:

Report no. 32- Indigenous Construction of Indian Naval Warships

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Baldev » 24 Mar 2011 09:11

Austin wrote:Shtil-1 is an area defense SAM and chances are you will have more then one ship defending your fleet so 5 threats will have to deal with multiple Shtil-1 ,Barak-1 ,AK-630M ,EW/ECM and Decoys (Soft Kill ) all of them working in an integrated manner ,so a threat will have to deal with multiple defensive system
frigate can be alone in the sea and 4-5 HARM coming at mach 2 fired by aircrafts from safe distance easily kills radars and barak-1 would not help much in that.

the reaction time of launcher is too slow, its better such supersonic targets are engaged as far from ship as possible which is not possible due to very fact.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 24 Mar 2011 09:47

Baldev , every navy deals with threats to its assets with layered systems of hard kill/soft kill and countermeasures and no single system no matter how capable it is defines a ships defensive or offensive system , since an adversary will find a way to defeat it.

On single arm launcher lets leave that to the professional judgement of IN on what it thinks is the best equipment to equip its ship and not us arm chair generals think we know better than the Indian navy and its professional judgment of choices it makes on such matter
Last edited by Austin on 24 Mar 2011 10:04, edited 1 time in total.

Vivek K
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 24 Mar 2011 09:54

I surprise myself but I second Austin here.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 24 Mar 2011 10:11

INs current fleet is designed for medium threats like PN

higher threat in form of PLANAF su30 is coming to the fore..and we are responding with mfstar and barak8 for that.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby karan_mc » 24 Mar 2011 10:50

First This News Comes

Pipavav Shipyard Limited should construct second aircraft carrier for India

Pipavav Shipyard Limited is also working on a larger Dry dock which is over 700 meters long and 65 meters wide when completed in 2012 it will be second largest dry dock in the world :eek: so PSL will be a logical choice to construct IAC-II for Indian navy.


Then this

Pipavav Shipyard Ltd Gets Govt License to build Warships for Indian Navy

The clearance will help the Company to bid for all future warship projects like frigates, destroyers, aircraft carriers, LPDs, submarine, corvettes etc. of Indian Navy.


But i still Feel CSL will construct them ,but Govt seems to be keeping other options open for now :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 24 Mar 2011 13:34

^^^

I will be pleasently surprised, if i find that the above demand from IDR was made as a result of a Lifafa from PIPAV.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shijo » 24 Mar 2011 13:58

I will be pleasently surprised, if i find that the above demand from IDR was made as a result of a Lifafa from PIPAV
------------------------------------------------
correct , paid news :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 24 Mar 2011 17:22

Baldev wrote:
Austin wrote:Shtil-1 is an area defense SAM and chances are you will have more then one ship defending your fleet so 5 threats will have to deal with multiple Shtil-1 ,Barak-1 ,AK-630M ,EW/ECM and Decoys (Soft Kill ) all of them working in an integrated manner ,so a threat will have to deal with multiple defensive system
frigate can be alone in the sea and 4-5 HARM coming at mach 2 fired by aircrafts from safe distance easily kills radars and barak-1 would not help much in that.

the reaction time of launcher is too slow, its better such supersonic targets are engaged as far from ship as possible which is not possible due to very fact.

Barak is capable of intercepting HARM its capability is more of question mark against something like Moskit.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 24 Mar 2011 17:45

Indian and Singapore navies conduct Maritime Bilateral Exercise SIMBEX 2011

The excercise SIMBEX 2011 is being hosted by Singapore from 18 to 25 Mar 2011. The exercise comprises a shore phase, already held at the Changi Naval Base and a sea phase currently being carried out in the South China Sea.

SIMBEX 2011 saw the navies conduct advanced naval warfare training involving air, surface and sub-surface dimensions, aims to enhance the interoperability and mutual understanding between the two navies.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 24 Mar 2011 19:47

The “Official“ Ministry Of Defence Press Release regards Simbex 2011:

Singapore and Indian Navies Conduct Maritime Exercise

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2011 20:52

There are very few images out there of the interior of Indian submarines. Here is a one that I have not come across. The submarine is question is INS Shalki, a Shishumar Class (HDW 209, Type 1500) and the officer at left is from the French Navy and serves aboard the French Navy's only aircraft carrier --> the Charles de Gaulle (R91). Notice the disposable clothing worn by our submariners. Note Windows XP running at the bottom left of the image;

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 24 Mar 2011 21:19

I dont think they are disposable but designed for easy cleaning in the washing machine.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2011 21:29

Singha: They are disposable. They wear them for a few days and then throw them out. Uniforms are used, but I believe only when they reach/leave port. From link below;

http://www.enidhi.net/2010/08/vizag-submarine-museum-rk-beach.html

There’s no concept of taking a shower inside. Disposable cloths are used. Water is a precious resource and used only for drinking and cooking.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gaur » 24 Mar 2011 21:39

Singha wrote:I dont think they are disposable but designed for easy cleaning in the washing machine.

Singha,
I highly suggest that you watch the NDTV's rocky and mayur episode on submarine. For someone like me who knows twat about Navy, it was an eye opener and an incredulous experience to say the least. Once you see the conditions the submariners live in, you will understand how even the thought of a washing machine is beyond the realm of possibility.

If you are inclined to watch the program,please watch the whole 20 min program on NDTV and not the 5 min clip on youtube.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2011 23:10

Washing machines are installed aboard US Navy nuclear submarines. Then again, they are much bigger than our Kilos and Shishumar Class boats and got nuclear power to generate all the electricity they need.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Shankar » 24 Mar 2011 23:19

they are disposable - proper uniforms are only when at base and on land

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 24 Mar 2011 23:33

could be ok for 10 day SSK patrols. not so ok for 3 month SSN patrols - I dont think anyone can live without a bath for 3 months, though some people in hostels do claim to try.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2011 23:35

Singha: Presently, we don't have any active nuclear boats in service. So disposable clothing it is. Just accept it :)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupak » 24 Mar 2011 23:38

Rakesh is correct.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2011 23:40

About the nuclear boats or the disposable clothing? :) Please say the latter, cause I owe tons of mithai to Rakshaks here that I just cannot afford :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 25 Mar 2011 00:51

gurus rakesh and rupak, manoj joshi had a fantastic article on our sub arm in frontline in early 90's where it had all these details about dress, living conditions etc. is it possible to host it on BR mainsite ? I can quote the year/issue if you want.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 25 Mar 2011 00:53

RahulM: I don't see why not, but will have to speak with the admins about copyright issues. Do you have a scanned copy of the article?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 25 Mar 2011 01:02

not at the moment but I can get it scanned if we need. we need to take permission of frontline as well I guess ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ManishH » 25 Mar 2011 10:15

This is the NDTV Jai-Hind submarine episode ...

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/jai-hi ... ine/189171

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gaurav_S » 25 Mar 2011 11:25

^^

Thats INS Sindhughosh. Very cramped space indeed and definitely not for any faint hearted. 1000 salutes to young men. Yes the clothing worn while under sea is disposable as shown. Its changed every 2-3 days and shower room is LOCKED..!


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