Indian Naval Discussion

[D Roy]

yes but what about this

(B) SUPPORTING OPERATIONS ASHORE.


Note special forces operations has been mentioned in (D)

tube launched LACMs should be there one would guess...

[JTull]

From Livefist

The Indian Navy has floated a tender to acquire six new conventional attack submarines as part of Project 75(I), the submarine line that will run parallel to the Scorpene line in Mumbai. The RFI (see below) has been sent to shipbuilders that are believed to include Russia's Rubin for the Amur 1650, Fincantieri for the S1000, Navantia for the S-80 and HDW for the Class-214.

Was Wondering that TSP Navy is already in advanced stage of negotiations for HDW 214 , As per Wiki....

Pakistan
The Pakistan Navy is reportedly negotiating for the purchase of 3 Type 214 submarines, all of which to be built in Pakistan. During the IDEAS 2008 exhibition, the HDW chief Walter Freitag told “The commercial contract has been finalised up to 95 per cent,” he said. The first submarine would be delivered to the Pakistan Navy in 64 months after signing of the contract while the rest would be completed successively in 12 months...


Then Why HDW ?

Good way to know what's inside. Just as the MMRCA was a good exercise for IAF. Why refuse any information when a supplier is readily willing to provide it?

[Singha]

> supporting forces ashore

probably refers to provision for external mountings and containers to carry chariots, zodiacs and marcos gear and swimout chamber...

[Willy]

How long do the vendors get to respond? Six months?

[Juggi G]

Navy Alerts Goa Coastal Residents about Super Sonic Boom

[parshuram]

How long do the vendors get to respond? Six months?

RFI says ...

6. IT IS REQUESTED THAT THE RESPONSE TO THIS RFI BE FORWARDED BY 30 SEP 10.

[chackojoseph]

yes but what about this

(B) SUPPORTING OPERATIONS ASHORE.

Mostly Midgets.

Added later,

With delay in Scorpenes decision by almost a decade, we have overlapped project 75 I time. So the hurry. IMHO.

[ovein]

Does anybody have idea about where we are with INS Satpura. I thought she is scheduled to join the navy by year end

[VinodTK]

Top US admiral in town, may discuss issues related to China

Incidentally, Admiral Willard's visit also comes soon after the latest Pentagon report on the military capabilities of China, which held the 2.25-million strong People's Liberation Army has moved "more advanced and survivable'' solid-fuelled CSS-5 nuclear-capable ballistic missiles closer to the borders with India "to improve regional deterrence''. China is also developing contingency plans to move airborne troops into the region.

Even as India watches with increasing concern the expanding Chinese strategic footprint in the Indian Ocean Region as well as South Asia, defence minister A K Antony is slated to visit Washington towards the end of this month.

[Arya Sumantra]

This concept can work where such locations can be top secret.Would it work in India's case.Witness the number of security breaches among the top echelons in India ., for eg, the laptop that went missing in the US

and

And i agree with the other poster who said that secrecy would be vital. Especially since they cannot be moved.

After all the thing which makes submarines the ideal 2nd strike platform is not just their stealthiness but also their mobility making them harder to detect and neutralize...

Yes, it is fixed and even if it’s location becomes known, it is more immune to attack from the air by missiles for reasons mentioned in that post – that was the whole premise. So next there is threat from submarine attack. What if it is under a land-locked water body like a lake as ramana sir hinted? Unfortunately India does not have wide and large giant lakes the size of unkil. With some dredging some should be fine though. Again the concept of slbm silo is additional to boomer initiatives and a gap filler until our capabilities on that mature and sufficient numbers.

Even on the sea side the slbm silo’s vulnerability isn’t high. It could be guarded by torpedo silos which in turn are data-linked to sonars active and passive over the sea-floor. And who says we have to restrict only territorial sea-floor only. At least the passive ones could be placed outside as well with active ones switched off during peace times. And we could find approaching hostile sub heading towards our mainland while it’s near say Andamans and launch a pre-emptive protective offensive. In long run, similar to abm shield, a layered underwater defense to protect unarmed Indian vessels berthed on ports, offshore installations, ports etc could be set-up based on LR-Torpedo, MR-Torpedo and SR-Torpedo fed through a fibre with encroaching enemy Torpedo/Sub data from sonar datalink.

The torpedo silo is something which should permanently be a part of our shoreline defence doctrine because our subs can’t be everywhere given that we will not be first attackers. So we have to have provision for foiling the enemy’s first mover advantage.
JMT
P.S.: Thanks for the link manish_p.

[Rupesh]

Kochi: Rear Admiral Zahir Uddin Ahmed, chief of the Bangladesh Navy, will arrive at the Southern Naval Command here on Friday on a two-day visit.

During his stay here, he will interact with the top brass of the training command besides visiting a few training establishments under it.

Admiral Ahmed joined the Bangladesh Navy in July 1976 as an officer cadet and was later commissioned from Britannia Royal Naval College, U.K.. He has received training in the United States, China, Pakistan , Korea and the Netherlands. He assumed office as Chief of the Bangladesh Naval Staff on January 29 this year.

Bangladesh Navy chief to visit Kochi

[SriSri]

Sikorsky Offers Servicing, Spares for UH-3H Sea King Helicopters to Indian Navy

Sikorsky, an American helicopter company, has offered servicing and spares for six UH-3H Sea King helicopters that came on-board the INS Jalashva (previously know as the USS Trenton). This offer hopes to counter the negative feedback with regard to alleged "sub standard quality" of the USS Trenton.

The comptroller and auditor general has strongly criticised the quality of the machines on the aircraft carrier that came through US government foreign military sales. According to the CAG the ($39 million) machines did not come equipped with any type of weather or surface surveillance radar and the defence ministry failed to secure any "guarantee for the replacement of defective rotables due to obsolescence".

Talking to FE, AVM (retd) AJS Walia, managing director for India and South Asia, Sikorsky Aircraft said that, "We have sent an unsolicited letter to the Indian Navy offering to provide whatever support they want. We have also offered to supply spares which will finish by 2010." "These helicopters came through the government to government route. It was not a commercial deal. And that we are offering now will be a commercial deal between us and the Indian Navy," Walia added.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4510

--

Why did we accept it in the first place if it was "junk"?

[Singha]

not having a weather or surface search radar isnt a major thing. even tourist motorboats have a 15km range surface search radar from "kelvin hughes" set.

[SriSri]

not having a weather or surface search radar isnt a major thing. even tourist motorboats have a 15km range surface search radar from "kelvin hughes" set.

I agree. I think a bigger concern would have been the unavailability of spares due to obsolesce.

Added later

... which seems to have been now addressed.

[merlin]

I think we bought it to study how to use this type of craft and to what type of uses we can put it to in our context. As such not having a radar isn't a big deal IMHO.

[Singha]

yes and for its cheap cost, the bet has paid off already ($49 mil for ship, $39 mil for the six sea kings). everything we get out of it is a bonus now.

makes sense to run it and figure out what exactly we need in the LPHD matrix before putting down $500-700 mil each for a new series of large amphib ships.

some of the older WASP class ships will also be coming up for retirement or mothballing for cost cutting reasons....we could obtain a couple if plans for
new ships lack immediate funding. the oldest one entered service in 1987 so is 23 yrs old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasp_class ... sault_ship

if we pay for heavy refurbishment these hulls tend to last 50-60 yrs...sher khan builds them for long deployments and heavy seas ...

[chackojoseph]

Indian Navy and NATO Counter-Piracy Task Force commanders meet

[Philip]

In the aftermath of the tsunami the Trenton's acquisition looks a correct one,but the vessel is so ancient,killed several sailor in an accident,and was sent with obsolete Sea Kings for which the entire deal has been severly criticised.For Gorshkov critics,take a look at the Trenton deal.While the decision to acquire the Gorshkov took several years and was badly formulated,despite the aeons of time to have asertained the quantum of renovation required and task it involved,the Trenton deal wa swiftly done,as there are elements in the establishment who want us to replace Pak ,or even join it in being the "rent-boys" of the Indian subcontinent.

The need does remain for a full and capable amphibious vessel.Russia is acquiring the French Mistral design,while OZ has ordered 3-4 Spanish Juan Carlos vessels of about 35,000t,which have better features than the Mistral.Japan and SoKo have their own "pocket" flat tops as well,that could in the future operate JSF STOVL aircraft.The Spanish design is ideal for the IN as these ships have an all round capability and can be used for amphibious ops,serve also for ASW and AEW/air defence for the fleet using STOVL aircraft and helos.The latest AEW helo design,a version of the EH-101 Merlin using the well known Searchwater radar,is ideal for the IN's future largeer carriers,which would have better capability than the KA-31s we have at present.

[shukla]

Navy Chief to visit U.S. next week

The visit is yet another step in the growing strategic defence relations and engagement between the armed forces of the two countries. Admiral Verma will tour several places, including Washington and Hawaii, headquarters of the U.S. Pacific Command (PACOM), and witness the progress of the P-8I Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance aircraft the Indian Navy is procuring from the U.S.

The Naval Chief's trip reciprocates the visits by U.S. PACOM Commander Admiral Robert F. Willard this week and Chief of Naval Operations Gary Roughead in April. On Thursday Admiral Willard had indicated that both India and the U.S. have to work in the domain of cyber space and outer space, and it is likely that Admiral Verma will utilise the opportunity to interact in these spheres.

Assembly of the first aircraft is due to begin in the last quarter of this year after the Indian Navy completed the final design review in July. This effectively locked the design for the aircraft, radar, communications, navigation, mission computing, acoustics and sensors as well as the ground and test support equipment, paving the way for the programme to start assembly of the plane, Boeing said.

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will provide weapons bay door for the eight P-8I aircraft. Under the terms of the $4.7 million-contract, the HAL will deliver the first set of doors to Boeing in Seattle by the end of the year, the company said.

[Brando]

The Spanish design is ideal for the IN as these ships have an all round capability and can be used for amphibious ops,serve also for ASW and AEW/air defence for the fleet using STOVL aircraft and helos.The latest AEW helo design,a version of the EH-101 Merlin using the well known Searchwater radar,is ideal for the IN's future largeer carriers,which would have better capability than the KA-31s we have at present.

The MoD and the FM would balk at the idea of spending so much for amphibious ships when the IN budget is already stretched to the max. With SSBN's and primary surface vessels to be replenished such ancillary vessels won't figure as a priority for procurement. Maybe if the Indian Army chips in with some money and presents a credible plan to build their amphibious assets, they can go for the Juan Carlo type vessels but that is a big "if". Unfortunately, there aren't many generals in the Indian Army who are going to bat for strengthening amphib ops

[Philip]

Let's hope that the vison of the top brass is widening as the 40 strategic bomber requirement is showing a new dimension to Indian military thinking.With our increased committments in the IOR,Mauritius,Seychelles,Maldives,Lanka,etc.,aaprt from the island territories,we will need a substantial force of at least 3-5 divisions of marines,whcih can also prove very useful in any landing on the Kutch/Makran coast.

[Lalmohan]

we should always retain the option for a marine expedition to assist and support the oppressed balochi people as they seek justice and humanity from an uncaring state

[Singha]

I agree that ambhibious warfare assets like LPD and LPHs should be under IA control and funding with IN providing the crew and running the ships...kind of like AAI looking after some vital aspects like ATC in pvtly run airports. we dont have a separate marine corps, perhaps a dedicated IA command like "marine command" HQed at porbandar, trivandrum and port blair can be setup. the transport helis and WSI dhruvs embarked can be owned and operated by the IA.
both IA and IN senior officers on deputation can work within this new command.

[rohitvats]

Singha, we have a dedicated Brigade for Amphibious Operations based out of Trivandrum. And I've seen them operating with BMP-II - these might be integral to these units. Besides the Infantry, there would be Armored Regiment(s) tasked to operate with this Brigade.

So, baby steps at a time because IMO, such operations are extremely complex with various arms and services working together - IN Surface Fleet/Air Assets/IA. And then, one needs the complementary equipment for both the elements. I think it is coming in near future.

[rohitvats]

Singha, we have a dedicated Brigade for Amphibious Operations based out of Trivandrum. And I've seen them operating with BMP-II - these might be integral to these units. Besides the Infantry, there would be Armored Regiment(s) tasked to operate with this Brigade.

So, baby steps at a time because IMO, such operations are extremely complex with various arms and services working together - IN Surface Fleet/Air Assets/IA. And then, one needs the complementary equipment for both the elements. I think it is coming in near future.

[D Roy]

beach assaults are something we can do.

what we need to learn is Over the Horizon assaults. For that we need LHDs , helos , air sup through the Viks and of course practice.

[Singha]

necessity is the mother of invention. from a low base, the USMC-USN combine carried out numerous and very large island hopping invasions and devastating raids by carrier strike groups within a couple years of pearl harbour.

as D Roy says, OTH assaults to dislocate key strongpoints in the enemy's rear is perhaps more suited to our littoral env than conventional beach assaults...
suited for island territories in our area. myanmar and sindh. can attack many points at once and bypass known choke points.

[Lalmohan]

the main aim of an Indian Marine force is to project power from Somalia (anti piracy) through the Maldives, to the Andamans and down to Malacca. That is to say - no one should think about grabbing any of the little islands in that zone, or will get a tight slap. it is a necessary adjunct to a strong naval presence guaranteeing the sea lanes of the IOR for our trading and energy security

a secondary and perhaps emergency mission could be to open a diversion in Sindh or Makran if and when required, but planning on a dedicated mission for this will require more treasure than we can afford

ofcourse, this force will be the single most capable and largest provider of humanitarian support (in case of disasters) across all these areas

[Rahul M]

I agree that ambhibious warfare assets like LPD and LPHs should be under IA control and funding with IN providing the crew and running the ships...

IMO all such forces should operate under IDS while being crewed by their respective forces.

[Avinandan]

Gurus,
Could you please provide update on the vessles of Car Nicobar Class that are in various stages of completion/commisionning.

Please refer the below link that was updated on 30th June 2010.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Ship ... Class.html

[Singha]

would these map to the WW2 category of inshore "submarine chasers" ? i.e. aggressive little ships with depth charges, maybe a quad torpedo pack
and a gun up front?

[ShivaS]

Ok lets talk how to build in India with Indian PSU and Pvt sector a Collins class type submarine.

here is a section of the hull.

The construction of the Collins Class submarines was an unprecedented feat of engineering, design and logistics in Australia.
The project required specification, integration and installation of equipment and material from over 150 major contractors and hundreds of smaller suppliers. Most of the submarine modules were constructed off-site and then shipped to us for integration.

Key parameters for equipment included electrical power, cooling, noise, shock resistance, weight and electromagnetic characteristics, all under rigorous configuration management as data was distributed between the various suppliers during the design phase.

Submarine Outfitting Statistics

Piping 23,500 metres
Major cable lengths 7,000
Cable connections 200,000
Cable 75,000 metres
Batteries 400 tonnes

A completed submarine is a system of systems. A Collins Class submarine contains 108 integrated systems which are linked structurally, mechanically, electrically, hydraulically, pneumatically and electronically.

All of these systems need power and cooling, and many need to communicate with each other in order to achieve full operational capability.

Technical Documentation

Over 33,000 drawings and 5,000 work orders were produced before construction of the Collins Class submarines could begin. Once work started, each submarine took 2.5 million hours to assemble.
There are an estimated 350,000 individual technical documents associated with the Collins Class submarines, including:

Design drawings 70,727
Parts lists 46,717
Specifications 42,865



Widely regarded as the best conventional submarine in the world, the Collins Class submarines bristle with technological and performance capability.

The Collins Class submarines have a diameter of approximately 8 metres with a displacement of 3,000 tonnes.

curtsey
http://www.asc.com.au/aspx/submarines_construction.aspx

[Philip]

We must take a leaf out of Russia's book when it comes to standardising upon platforms and systems.The Pauk corvettes are based upon the same Tarantula missile corvette's hull,but has a modified superstructure with MBUs,TTs and a dipping VDS sonar at the stern,the same used aboard the Kamov KA-28 ASW helos.We've also seen how the Krivak hull dating from the Cold War era in its ltest avatar has morphed into the deadly Talwar class.By such standardisation,the need to build a different hull each time a specific mission vessel is required is unneccessary and helps reduce unit costs considerably,also making it easier for spares inventory and training.

The IN fact the IN did adopt that philosophy when we built the acclaimed "G" class frigates drived from the stretched Leander hull and further developed that design into the even more capable "B" class.Faced with the increasing threat from enemy subs,what the IN requires is a larger number of smaller plaforms that can serve as MCM vessels and littoral ASW fast craft like WW2s "sub-chasers".The Pauks fit perfectly into that description.Our AOPVs both for the IN and CG must also must be designed to be capable of fast upgrades during a time of crisis to augment their fighting capabilities with the addition of ASW TTs,dipping sonars,rocket launchers and missiles at pre-designed locations on the hull.In fact a common design both for the IN and CG could be developed,where the IN versions have heavier armamaent than theier CG sisters,which could be upgrade din times of crisis.
Another method is to design one hull whcih can carry different modular packages to support different roles when required.

With such standardisation of platforms across the board,huge economies of scale can be achieved,as key expennsive eqpt. like engines and sensors apart from weaponry would be common for many platforms.

PS:Reg. the Collins class,it was so heavily upgraded from the original design that it proved a disaster and Oz spet billions in getting USN help to salvage the class,of which the Oz navy can barely keep one sub at sea because of technicla problems and the shortage of sub crews.

[ShivaS]

Philip>> I do not mean to say Collins class is what we should build, its just a template to identify the industry and skills that we already have in our back yard to make subs.


A partial list and useful list of Vendor(specialization who particpated in Collins class building) from their web site. This will enable us to Identify similar skills capacity and domain expertise with Indian private and public sector.

Manufacturing
1312 Natural Textile Manufacturing
1313 Synthetic Textile Manufacturing
1331 Textile Floor Covering Manufacturing
1332 Rope, Cordage and Twine Manufacturing
1333 Cut and Sewn Textile Product Manufacturing
1334 Textile Finishing and Other Textile Product Manufacturing
1351 Clothing Manufacturing
1352 Footwear Manufacturing
1491 Prefabricated Wooden Building Manufacturing
1492 Wooden Structural Fitting and Component Manufacturing
1493 Veneer and Plywood Manufacturing
1494 Reconstituted Wood Product Manufacturing
1499 Other Wood Product Manufacturing
1611 Printing
1612 Printing Support Services
1701 Petroleum Refining and Petroleum Fuel Manufacturing
1709 Other Petroleum and Coal Product Manufacturing
1811 Industrial Gas Manufacturing
1812 Basic Organic Chemical Manufacturing
1813 Basic Inorganic Chemical Manufacturing
1821 Synthetic Resin and Synthetic Rubber Manufacturing
1829 Other Basic Polymer Manufacturing
1851 Cleaning Compound Manufacturing
1911 Polymer Film and Sheet Packaging Material Manufacturing
1912 Rigid and Semi-Rigid Polymer Product Manufacturing
1913 Polymer Foam Product Manufacturing
1915 Adhesive Manufacturing
1916 Paint and Coatings Manufacturing
1919 Other Polymer Product Manufacturing
1920 Natural Rubber Product Manufacturing
2010 Glass and Glass Product Manufacturing
2090 Other Non-Metallic Mineral Product Manufacturing
2110 Iron Smelting and Steel Manufacturing
2121 Iron and Steel Casting
2122 Steel Pipe and Tube Manufacturing
Manufacturing (Continued)
2131 Alumina Production
2132 Aluminium Smelting
2133 Copper, Silver, Lead and Zinc Smelting and Refining
2139 Other Basic Non-Ferrous Metal Manufacturing
2141 Non-Ferrous Metal Casting
2142 Aluminium Rolling, Drawing, Extruding
2149 Other Basic Non-Ferrous Metal Product Manufacturing
2210 Iron and Steel Forging
2221 Structural Steel Fabricating
2222 Prefabricated Metal Building Manufacturing
2223 Architectural Aluminium Product Manufacturing
2224 Metal Roof and Guttering Manufacturing (except Aluminium)
2229 Other Structural Metal Product Manufacturing
2231 Boiler, Tank and Other Heavy Gauge Metal Container Manufacturing
2239 Other Metal Container Manufacturing
2240 Sheet Metal Product Manufacturing (except Metal Structural and Container Products)
2291 Spring and Wire Product Manufacturing
2292 Nut, Bolt, Screw and Rivet Manufacturing
2293 Metal Coating and Finishing
2299 Other Fabricated Metal Product Manufacturing
2391 Shipbuilding and Repair Services
2392 Boatbuilding and Repair Services
2399 Other Transport Equipment Manufacturing
2422 Communication Equipment Manufacturing
2429 Other Electronic Equipment Manufacturing
2431 Electric Cable and Wire Manufacturing
2432 Electric Lighting Equipment Manufacturing
2439 Other Electrical Equipment Manufacturing
2441 Whiteware Appliance Manufacturing
2449 Other Domestic Appliance Manufacturing
2451 Pump and Compressor Manufacturing
2452 Fixed Space Heating, Cooling and Ventilation Equipment Manufacturing
2462 Mining and Construction Machinery Manufacturing
2463 Machine Tool and Parts Manufacturing
2469 Other Specialised Machinery and Equipment Manufacturing
2491 Lifting and Material Handling Equipment Manufacturing
2499 Other Machinery and Equipment Manufacturing
2511 Wooden Furniture and Upholstered Seat Manufacturing
2512 Metal Furniture Manufacturing
2513 Mattress Manufacturing
2519 Other Furniture Manufacturing
Electricity, Gas, Water and Waste Services
2700 Gas Supply
2811 Water Supply
2812 Sewerage and Drainage Services
2911 Solid Waste Collection Services
2919 Other Waste Collection Services
2921 Waste Treatment and Disposal Services
2922 Waste Remediation and Materials Recovery Services
Wholesale Trade
3321 Petroleum Product Wholesaling
3322 Metal and Mineral Wholesaling
3323 Industrial and Agricultural Chemical Product Wholesaling
3331 Timber Wholesaling
3332 Plumbing Goods Wholesaling
3339 Other Hardware Goods Wholesaling
4211 Furniture Retailing
4212 Floor Coverings Retailing
4213 House ware Retailing
4214 Manchester and Other Textile Goods Retailing
4222 Computer and Computer Peripheral Retailing
4229 Other Electrical and Electronic Goods Retailing
4231 Hardware and Building Supplies Retailing
4245 Marine Equipment Retailing
6631 Heavy Machinery and Scaffolding Rental and Hiring
9421 Domestic Appliance Repair and Maintenance
9422 Electronic (except Domestic Appliance) and Precision Equipment Repair
9429 Other Machinery and Equipment Repair and Maintenance

[ShivaS]

BHEL units plan to re-enter defence business

T E Narasimhan / Chennai April 10, 2010, 3:49 IST

The Tiruchirappali (Tiruchy) and Ranipet units of power and transmission equipment manufacturer Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) is planning to re-enter the defence business.

“Talks are on for supplying certain types of equipment for the Armed forces,” said BP Rao, chairman and managing director, BHEL.

The two units would produce battle tanks, missile launchers and water desalination facilities for submarines.

A Chandrababu, general manager in-charge, BHEL Ranipet, which manufactures boiler auxiliaries, said the unit had initiated taks with the Navy to re-enter the defence business in a “big way”.

The unit, which used to manufacture missile launchers for the Navy, has started discussions for the same apart from a desalination water facility for submarines. “We have tested one such facility in Vishakapatnam and are now planning to showcase this model to the Indian Navy,” said Chandrababu.

The Ranipet unit has also received a Rs 3-crore order from the Indian Space Organisation (Isro) to build fuel tanks for its project Chandrayan II. These tanks will be supplied by the end of this year.

AV Krishnan, executive director, BHEL – Tiruchy, which used to produce battle tanks, said they had initiated dialogue with the Army to re-enter this space. “We have the capability and capacity to manufacture in our unit,” he added.

Currently the defence business accounts for less than one per cent of the total revenue for the unit, he said.

BHEL, in the defence space, will have to compete with private players such as Larsen & Toubro (L&T), Tata Power, Mahindra & Mahindra, Godrej Industries, Kirloskar Brothers, Ashok Leyland, Jindal, Max Aerospace & Aviation and Ramoss India.

According to Assocham, the Centre procures around Rs 55,000 crore of defence equipment every year.

BHEL along with Italian conglomerate Finmechanica may supply as many as 30 heavy duty 127-mm naval guns. With each gun costing Rs 130-150 crore, this means an order worth Rs 4,500 crore.

“We are already supplying 76-MM guns to Navy and now the defence ministry wants to us to make the 127-mm guns,” Rao said, adding they were also implementing an integrated platform system for naval ships.http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ss/391377/

note the garbage of going to Italians even though they have already manufactured guns earlier, we always look for spoon feeding never try to extend our capabilities. This is more of attitude problem than skill problem.

Where there is no will there only one way! collobrate, import CKDs and assemble them with made in India emblem, shall we say automatic emblamatic attitude?

[jai]

now the defence ministry wants to us to make the 127-mm guns,”

Noob question..why 127 mm, why not 155 mm - 52 Cal or closer home - 130 mm ? Would that not provide commonality of ammunition and thus economies of scale in production/procurement ?

What would be the advantage of 127 mm V/S 155 or 130 mm ?

[Philip]

I get it now! Yes,the local industry must be taken into the network of OEM suppliers.This is being done,in fact the other day I was sent details of an industry-defence meet for the very same purpose.

Reg. 127,mm main guns,Otomelara for their new frigates have developed a 127mm main gun that has ER munitions.This is probably why the IN wants such a calibre.With extended range munitions,such a gun would give the wrship enhanced range and capability.It would also require larger warships than our DDGs,of cruiser class or US DDX size,to be able to accomodate such a large sized gun of 155mm.If one remembers,6" guns were aboard the old Mysore and Delhi WW2 era cruisers earlier.

[D Roy]

The interesting bit is the number 30.

If the new 127s are not going to be used to replace existing 76s or 100 mm on some ships than it says something about the additional number of PSCs we may see beyond P-17A ans P-15B.

[ShivaS]

like our goodol chap rohitvas said eloquently why we need manportable US made missile to knock down a tank....

The ships now have switched mostly to missiles instead of long range guns. In theory smart and intelligent projectile guns can be fitted on ships to do similar work of a missile.....

6 inch gun means 152.4 mm approx 153 mm that is really big gun

Oh those romantic movies of Guns of Navarone blasting the rocks, those ships exchanging blows in duel with Bismark

[chackojoseph]

Indian Navy participates in IBSAMAR 2010 Excercises

The Indian ships participating are INS Mysore, INS Tabar, INS Ganga and INS Aditya