Indian Naval Discussion

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 25 Nov 2010 15:15

Trikand was rolled out earlier today and is now ready for launch.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Nov 2010 22:51

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/T ... 767299.jpg
What are those red and couple of black beads like stuff (comm ?) near the hip?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 26 Nov 2010 12:31

Navy displays its awesome power
Deccan Chronicle
(Posting full)

Displaying its ke-en intent to protect the economic coastline and willingness to take up tasks that call for a clarity in deterrence and an unwillingness to compromise on what is national, the Indian Navy conducted a string of impr-essive exercises on Tuesday and Wednesday that proved its ability to hold mast in turbulent waters. A fleet of ships including INS Jalashwa, a launching platform dock (LPD) and India’s second largest ship which provides the amphibious thrust to the Eastern Fleet, conducted a whole lot of exercises to prove the offensive and defensive capabilities of the Eastern Fleet. INS Ranvir, INS Rana, INS Savitri, INS Karmuk and INS Jyothi were the other participants.

The exercise was not just a mere display of the enormous firepower that the fleet commands but also an insight into the complicated procedures and manoeuvres that have to be made in a multiple threat environment. The series of exercises taken up by the Eastern Naval Command proved the efficacy of the ships involved and the ability of the crew to shift gears when called for. INS Jalashwa commanding officer Alok Bhatnagar observed that INS Jalashwa provided the Indian Navy with the capacity of ensuring a foothold on enemy beaches in case of a conflict situation.

He said, “INS Jalashwa gives us the much required capability to launch landing craft machine (LCMs) laden with army men and cargo to provide the much needed thrust in an amphibious operation.” One of the most eye-catching of these exercises was the stand-off bea-ching exercise, where the coordinated effort between the Navy and Army was on display. Soldiers of the 91st Battalion and MARCOS (Navy Commandos) put up a scintillating show. The refuelling exercise was truly a gigantic one. The operation involved five ships in tow, with the INS Jyothi pumping oil through INS Jalashwa to the INS Karmuk. A mock exercise involving the 'securing an offshore rig' was also conducted. The exercises effectively proved the intent of the Indian Navy to ward off any threat not just to the trading lines that run through our seas but also to provide the much needed bite to keep our shores safe and ready for any eventuality. Rear Admiral P. Murugesan, Flag Officer Commanding Eastern Fleet, observed, “The objective is to protect the passage of trade of on-shore assets of the country.”

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 26 Nov 2010 16:33

Gorshkov Carrier: Good Things Are Worth Waiting For
DefPro

Gorshkov's delivery rescheduled for December 2012.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 26 Nov 2010 16:38

Late-a vandhalum latest-a varum

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Nov 2010 16:46

This is a carrier that I have been reading about from 1995 onwards.

Am not realy sure that Dec 2012 timeline can actualy be kept. As the ship post launch and fitting out will have to undergo builders trials and the naval trials + shakedown and endurance cruises followed by working up excersises.

Once all the above activities are concluded the ship will enter service.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Nov 2010 18:30

I did not read anything "latest" on vikramaditya from that link? what is it?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 Nov 2010 20:29

was watching NDTV Samundar ka sikandar, on INS Viraat. Amazing thing. They showed some footage like the a/c lift both center and side. Did anyone watch?

wig · Post by **wig** » 26 Nov 2010 20:36

yes. was also watching the programme on ndtv. missed some of the initial part. hope they retelecast it.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 26 Nov 2010 21:44

From the above link (good find Shukla saab):

Critics would do well to remember this tidbit when they want to bash the russians for the Gorky deal:

Further, according to Antony, the original contract was supplemented by “an exhaustive list of equipment to be fitted on the ship.”

CM

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Nov 2010 22:46

Looking back at the Gorshkov deal , I think there is lot of bad press and heart burn amongst Indians for getting a bad deal or a perception on similar lines exists.

A more honorable way would have been to cancel the deal , We would have been happy to get the money back plus extra as per penalty clause and Russian Navy would have been happy to keep the modernised carrier , till such time they build a new one.

We could have invested that money in building the IAC.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Nov 2010 23:34

Austin wrote:Looking back at the Gorshkov deal , I think there is lot of bad press and heart burn amongst Indians for getting a bad deal or a perception on similar lines exists.

A more honorable way would have been to cancel the deal , We would have been happy to get the money back plus extra as per penalty clause and Russian Navy would have been happy to keep the modernised carrier , till such time they build a new one.

We could have invested that money in building the IAC.

We had other funds to invest in the IAC. We invested money in the Gorshkov because we wanted the Gorshkov and the Russians promised to deliver it, refurbished and modified as we wanted, in a certain time frame for a certain amount of money. There were no changing goalposts here AFAIK. The IN was pretty clear on what it wanted on the Gorshkov right from the start. It is pretty clear that the Russians played us. They wanted the carrier off their hands, so they made a very attractive offer, knowing fully well that once we were in it, they could squeeze us for more money. A lot more money.
I would say our fault was believing we were dealing with the USSR and not Russia.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Nov 2010 23:47

Oh if it were the USSR we would have got that ship on 20 years credit with 2-3 % interest or ended up bartering it for tea , dabur oil and woodland shoes.

Well USSR wouldn't have sold any thing that carried the name Gorshkov on it

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 27 Nov 2010 04:47

Cain Marko wrote:From the above link (good find Shukla saab):

Thanks CM!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 27 Nov 2010 05:57

Merchant vessels safe, thanks to Indian Navy
The Hindu

According to Flag Officer Commanding Eastern Fleet, Rear Admiral P. Murugesan, INS Rajput is deployed in the Gulf of Aden to safeguard Indian vessels. It will return after three months of patrolling, when another ship will be sent there.

“About 90 per cent of India's $500 billion international trade is across the oceans. You know what is happening in the Gulf of Aden. Pirates are holding big merchant vessels and passengers to ransom. INS Rajput, one of the ships of our Eastern Fleet, is now deployed there for patrolling. All our merchant vessels are safe under the surveillance of the Indian Navy,” he told media onboard INS Jalashwa on Wednesday.

Asked how the country was able to maintain old ships — such as Jalashwa purchased from the United States — he said that during the last three years since the purchase of the amphibious assault ship, all maintenance and repairs had been done locally. Rear Admiral Murugesan also explained that it would take eight to 10 years to build a Landing Platform Dock (LPD) similar to the INS Jalashwa, right from the drawing to the commissioning of the ship. Now, new ships were being built on a par with those in any other country, in terms of technology, weaponry, sensors, etc.

“I can assure you, INS Delhi, Mysore and Mumbai built by the Mazagon Dock Limited, India's prime shipyard, are on a par with the best in the world. The replacement of an LPD of the Jalashwa type will be by LPDs built by Indian shipyards,” he said.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 27 Nov 2010 11:06

wig wrote:yes. was also watching the programme on ndtv. missed some of the initial part. hope they retelecast it.

Pls advertise if they do it again. BR folks should watch it. It was really awesome.

wig · Post by **wig** » 27 Nov 2010 11:12

Coastal India still vulnerable

Exactly two years after the attack on Mumbai, “foolproof” security remains a far cry. The way things are it will take at least two more years for the gamut of much-needed modern gadgetry to be put in place and running.

There has been progress, but it is not enough, said top sources, while explaining that the focus of the multitude of ministries working in coastal areas was not always on security. They have their own pace and priority of work, a senior functionary said, who did not wish to be quoted.

One of the most startling issues is the absence of transponders that will pick out and identify all vessels at sea near the Indian coastline. Called the automated identification system (AIS), a specific code is allotted to the equipment fitted onto each boat, which then responds with the shore-based transponder making it easy to pick out intruders. The Navy wants that all boats up to 20 metre in length have the AIS. In two years, the authorities could not decide what type of AIS was best suited and the issue of cost and providing power to the system on the boat could not be worked out. It will take another 18 months to complete, said officials

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101127/main1.htm#1

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Nov 2010 11:20

chacko, who hosted it ?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 27 Nov 2010 12:54

Rahul M,

NDTV.

More of a IN exercise, hence I am psting here
Indian Navy , Army and Air Force conduct joint training exercise in Visakhapatnam

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Nov 2010 13:09

I mean who was the presenter/host ?

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 27 Nov 2010 13:46

Here is the link for Samundar Ke Sikandar
Viraat puraana hai par kamzor nahi

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-s ... ory/178284

AWESOME show...Missing it is unpardonable

I hope our military becomes more media savvy. We need more such shows to instill confidence in our people.

Rahul ji it was hosted by Rajeev Ranjan

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 27 Nov 2010 13:49

Shiv Aroor's report on Navy's preparedness

Ground Zero, Navy takes charge of coastal security

Part 1 : http://headlinestoday.intoday.in/site/h ... 9&catId=45

Remaining parts are given on that page...

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Nov 2010 16:13

Gorshkov,...worth waiting for.
Just for the record some CDG problems not elaborated upon in the article from other sources.Heavy radiation from the N-reactor,design taken from a French N-sub design has 3 times more than allowable radiation limits,making the ship steam at slower speeds affecting aircraft launch! AEW Hawkeye's too big for the carrier neccessitating deck modifications,a screw fell off at sea! Old ones from old vessels used in repairs.Cart problems too.The CDG has been a huge headache for the French Navy and should give those in the IN who advcoate nuclear powered carriers pause for thought.Until we perfect our N-reactor aboard the ATV,we must walk befooe we can run with N-power for our future carriers.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Nov 2010 16:19

Philip,

CDG, is what happnes when warships are designed by a cometee with no skill at ship building and whose primary objective is to do things on the cheap.

Well the end result is niether cheap nor effective.

There is no reason to think that the IN nuke flattop if build will face the same problems. Besides which it is at least 15 years away.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Nov 2010 17:49

thanks a lot sunny !

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 27 Nov 2010 19:27

sunny y wrote:Here is the link for Samundar Ke Sikandar
Viraat puraana hai par kamzor nahi

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-s ... ory/178284

AWESOME show...Missing it is unpardonable
I hope our military becomes more media savvy. We need more such shows to instill confidence in our people.
...

Thank you NDTV! Definitely the best attitude in any piece of Indian defence video journalism that I've seen.

Thanks for sharing, Sunny!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 27 Nov 2010 19:34

Lol, did you see those guys having a ATM, the food maker etc. The harrier from center lift, 3 choppers on the side lift, etc. Also, the shots of harriers taking off, the full length. I must say a very well made video. Its good to see on big screen.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 27 Nov 2010 21:34

Truly world-class program! Good job!

* excellent video coverage of all facets of carrier ops
* technically sound camera work (no irritating/unncessary panning & shaking)
* good editing

And best of all - excellent narration with good information as well as occasional humour: "Risk lene ka itna shauk hota toh fauj mein na hote!?"

Compare this to the 'english news' TV coverage by headslines today - the narration gave me a headache.

Vishnu Som - if you reading this then pls send our compliments to your colleagues.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Nov 2010 01:37

Coast Guard Upgrade Stuck, Not Single Plane Added
The Indian Express

Coast Guard Upgrade Stuck, Not Single Plane Added
Manu Pubby
Posted : Fri Nov 26 2010, 02:34 hrs
New Delhi

Two years ago, when the Mumbai attack exposed gaping holes in the coastal surveillance network, a major acquisition drive was announced to upgrade the Coast Guard, with special emphasis on its aerial wing. Two years later, not a single new aircraft has been added, raising questions on the force's ability to detect and thwart similar attempts. In subsequent months, the Defence Ministry drew up an elaborate plan to immediately procure 30 new helicopters and 12 fixed-wing aircraft to scale up the force's surveillance capabilities. The force level of the Coast Guard, however, has remained static at 45 aircraft and helicopters since 2008. Worse, the Ministry has not even issued formal tenders to acquire helicopters while a new fleet of medium range fixed-wing surveillance aircraft is in the technical evaluation stage. Realising that the Coast Guard was short of helicopters to intercept and detect suspicious vessels, the Ministry had in early 2009 had floated a tender to lease eight twin engine helicopters to meet the requirement. It now turns out that after two years of red tape and bureaucratic wrangling, the 'dry lease’ contract was cancelled as the ministry did not allocate sufficient funds to cover its cost. After several rounds of evaluation, US aviation major Sikorsky's twin engine helicopter was found compliant. But when the tenders were opened, the ministry realised it had only accounted for hourly leasing charges. The poor planning led to the cancellation of the contract and the Ministry has started a fresh process to lease eight helicopters. The process will take at least two more years. The other deal was to get 30 new helicopters for maritime surveillance and attack missions against rouge vessels. But the ministry has not yet floated formal tenders to procure the helicopters -- 16 of which are to be ship-borne and 14 shore-based. It took the ministry more than 18 months after the terror attack to even come out with a request for information for the helicopters. After the tenders are finally floated, it would take at least three years to identify a suitable machine. Similarly, the ministry has not yet been able to identify fixed wing maritime reconnaissance aircraft. While tenders have been floated and trials carried out, the ministry is still to choose a suitable aircraft out of the two contenders — the Russian Beriev 200 and Canadian Bombardier Q400. Even if things go on with clockwork precision, it would take at least three years for the first of the new patrol to enter service.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 28 Nov 2010 02:24

^^^ This is criminal to the point that it hurts

.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Nov 2010 04:17

India rejects China’s maritime invite

South Block sources said it made no sense sending Chopra for the summit in view of China's provocative stance on Kashmir and denial of visa to the general. Military contact between both nations has been stuck in a logjam since July when Beijing refused to host northern army commander Lt. Gen BS Jaswal, as his jurisdiction spanned Jammu and Kashmir.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 28 Nov 2010 04:18

While I understand the Dhruv doesn't fit into the IN's carrier based aircraft requirement since it can replace neither the Sea King nor the Aloutte, why isn't it the Coast Guard's (and IN's) first choice for a shore based aircraft? Its a world class product and increasing the number of aircraft produced will only help its acquisition cost and export prospects. The Alouttes can soldier on till the LOH enters production.

To better informed BR members- what class of helicopter is the ICG looking for?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Nov 2010 11:55

IAI sells MF-STAR Naval AESA to an "undisclosed foreign customer". Some unsubstantiated reports online sugget that India might be the so called 'foreign customer' for the Kolkata class destroyers. Any truth behind these rumors?

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 28 Nov 2010 13:55

Whats up with this article in livefist:

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11/in ... -type.html

Why is there a requirement for trishul type missile when we already have Barak?

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 28 Nov 2010 13:56

arnt we an operator of the MF-STAR already or wasnt it already in the works?

b_patel · Post by **b_patel** » 28 Nov 2010 13:57

IAI sells MF-STAR Naval AESA to an "undisclosed foreign customer". Some unsubstantiated reports online sugget that India might be the so called 'foreign customer' for the Kolkata class destroyers. Any truth behind these rumors?

Yes, the rumors are true. I don't know why its a rumor though I thought it was well known for a while that the Kolkata class destroyers would use the Israeli AESA radar. I don't know what else they would use.
Does anyone know if the schematics of the improved kolkata class destoyers (P-15B) have been released? Anyone have a proposed image of the ship? Also what's the point in building just 6 destroyers? Smarter move would be 9-12. I assume the Kolkatas will replace the Rajput destroyers which leaves the Navy with 9 destroyers. If india is truly planning on fielding 3 CBG then all the destroyers would be needed in the CBG's.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Nov 2010 14:11

b_patel wrote:
IAI sells MF-STAR Naval AESA to an "undisclosed foreign customer". Some unsubstantiated reports online sugget that India might be the so called 'foreign customer' for the Kolkata class destroyers. Any truth behind these rumors?
Yes, the rumors are true. I don't know why its a rumor though I thought it was well known for a while that the Kolkata class destroyers would use the Israeli AESA radar. I don't know what else they would use.

Whats your source mate?

b_patel · Post by **b_patel** » 28 Nov 2010 14:35

Whats your source mate?

I should have worded that better. I don't have a legit source but its pretty obvious the Israeli AESA radars are for the Kolkata Class destroyers. Here's why: The new destroyers were going to have an AESA radar that's a given. Why use PESA/Mech radars for the newest destroyers, doesn't make sense. The choice of AESA Radars for the Kolkata's are pretty limited. Putting the Aegis is the Kolkata's is a long shot and I mean a long shot for obvious reasons. Another option is the Sampson radar on the Type-45 destroyers from the UK. The chances of the UK selling their latest radar to India is slim. The French EMPAR which equips France's Horizon frigates has a lower detection range and I'm pretty sure its a PESA. That leaves a Russian or Israeli radar to equip the Kolkata's. There isn't a whole lot of information about Poliment-K on the web. I don't even know if its an AESA might be a PESA radar. Also it isn't even ready to equip Russia's Gorshkov frigates yet, I doubt Russia would sell it yet. That leaves the only possible choice Israel's MF-Star AESA radar. Again this is just my opinion but the evidence points towards the Kolkata's using the MF-Star

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Nov 2010 16:16

b_patel wrote:
Whats your source mate?
I should have worded that better. I don't have a legit source but its pretty obvious the Israeli AESA radars are for the Kolkata Class destroyers.

I very well understand the logic my friend but was looking for a verifiable source. I will only be too pleased with the development..

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Nov 2010 17:04

The SPY 1 has already been offered to India, but a newer generation exists, also the Australian variant seems even more capable.Does any one have a open source comparing the MF STAR with these radars ?