Indian Naval Discussion

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Apr 2011 11:30

Sid wrote: I really don't get it. This is a very personal matter. Even I know one army office who had such relationship (although both were Indian).

If this lady in question was anyway compromising his duties (espionage/honey trap) then he should be convicted.

Otherwise it's none of government's business to poke their nose in someone's bedroom.

You think the GOI is bad, you should meet my Grandma. But anyways how do our jawans pass the time when it comes to that point in time when those urges start stir about and stuff. I know in the west, the sailors really stack up on the adult magazines but I hear they are not kosher in India. Just a hypothetical question?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Apr 2011 11:38

^^^ Hypothetical answer , Jawans , Admirals and Chief are not suppose to have urges and should avoid all temptations

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 01 Apr 2011 11:40

Austin wrote:^^^ Hypothetical answer , Jawans , Admirals and Chief are not suppose to have urges and should avoid all temptations

We have 3 month annual leaves in forces for some reason

Seriously, it's impossible to get an Army of Mahatma Gandhis.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 01 Apr 2011 16:36

Almost every Lieutenant at some point would have given his girlfriend a tour of the ship. The difference is that he does so with his CO’s permission.

And half of Russia visited INS Betwa while she was there.

I dont know the facts of the case. I’m not sure whether the Officer in question was married at that point in time, however, if single, he should have informed his CO before initiating the relationship. Full disclosure beforehand helps in some circumstances.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Apr 2011 23:02

Does anybody have any info on the Ins Satpura delivery and/or any recent pics? Many thanks.

nits · Post by **nits** » 04 Apr 2011 11:16

Navy looks to replace ageing minesweeping vessels

In its quest to replace ageing minesweeping ships with it, the Navy has embarked on a two-pronged strategy — building a new fleet and considering the purchase of two decommissioned vessels from the United States.

The Navy is negotiating with Korean shipyard Kangnam Corporation Busan Shipyards for building two Mine Counter-Measures Vessels (MCMV) at the shipyard and the rest at home through technology transfer, sources in the Defence Ministry said.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 05 Apr 2011 03:17

Military diplomacy: Adm Nirmal Verma in Bangladesh

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 05 Apr 2011 07:08

Pirates off Lakshadweep, Navy keeps eagle eye

MUMBAI: More than 100 pirates active in the high seas are threatening the merchant navy charting waters off Lakshadweep Islands. Sources in the maritime forces said, "We have been alerted about the presence of two more groups of pirates by the merchant navy." Since January, around 120 pirates have been arrested in four anti-piracy operations by the maritime forces.

An officer said, "Naval aircrafts and ships of the Navy and Coast Guard are maintaining a vigil on the Indian waters to prevent hijacking of the ship."

A group of 16 pirates arrested recently had targeted Merchant Ship MV Maersk Kensington on March 26. "The pirates were on board a hijacked Iranian trawler Al-Mortaza. They had made six unsuccessful attempts, two days before they were arrested," said a source.

The pirates had hijacked the Iranian trawler in November 2010 and had taken its crew, comprising 12 Iranians and six Pakistanis, hostage.

During interrogation, Mumbai police learnt that the pirates had killed two hostages — one during the anti-piracy operation and another a month after they hijacked the trawler.

A Navy officer said, "The pirates are a violent lot. They tried to escape when they were being brought to Mumbai."

As part of Operation Island Watch, the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard are maintaining surveillance off Lakshadweep islands for the past several months. On March 12, the Indian Navy arrested 61 Somali pirates and rescued 13 hostages after getting a distress call from MN Vancouver Bridge which was attacked in the Arabian Sea.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 05 Apr 2011 12:32

India, Saudi Arabia Plan Joint Naval Exercises

Aviation Week

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 05 Apr 2011 13:03

^^ Saudi Arabia has a NAVY !?

Might as well contact the Pakistani Navy and ask them about holding a joint-exercise next. What possible skill could those camel jockeys have to teach the Indian navy ? They might as well get the Pakistani navy in on this as well!

I thought the Omanis were the Indian Navy's closes allies in the Persian Gulf.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 05 Apr 2011 13:17

As our relationship with US grows, so does our cooperation with SA. Note that we are also building a mountain warfare school for them.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Apr 2011 13:39

^^ Why would we want to teach Pakis ( whom SA will obviously pass on whatever they learn from us) all our tricks regarding mountain warfare?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Apr 2011 13:55

why exactly do they need a mountain warfare school ? the hills near yemen would hardly qualify even as himalayan foothills.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 05 Apr 2011 14:26

Come on, does anyone seriously think tricks of the trade will be passed on to them. Even at different military schools there are many sessions that are strictly Indian officers only.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 05 Apr 2011 14:31

Don't know about why the Saudis need such a school.
But regarding them passing our tricks to Pakis...that is reaching a totally wrong conclusion. This is because we are "building" the school for them. That is very different from "training" them. In fact, while the facility itself is an important thing, how it is utilized by better training is of much greater importance.

Also, I think you guys are giving too little credit to IA. Why would Pakis need to go to Saudi to learn Indian tricks. US Special forces have trained at IA's HAWS and US SF also train SSG. So, if people really think that IA is that stupid, then a "training facility" in Saudi Arabia should be of little concern.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 05 Apr 2011 15:55

New Delhi also will establish a mountain warfare training school to help Riyadh improve their offensive and defensive capabilities.

Because SA is fighting an ongoing insurgency in along its southern border with Yemen that has mountain terrain.

Ex IAF engineers and pilots also maintain & fly their shiny F-15. They're certainly as professional as the Europeans and Americans employed.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 05 Apr 2011 16:04

We should be training them in order to get familiar with them. pakis have been doing that for some time. You know the results.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 05 Apr 2011 18:09

tsarkar wrote:
New Delhi also will establish a mountain warfare training school to help Riyadh improve their offensive and defensive capabilities.
Because SA is fighting an ongoing insurgency in along its southern border with Yemen that has mountain terrain.

Ex IAF engineers and pilots also maintain & fly their shiny F-15. They're certainly as professional as the Europeans and Americans employed.

This is extremely surprising. Is there open source information regarding this? Or did you come to know of it because of being ex-serviceman?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Apr 2011 18:42

I've heard about IAF's engagement with Libya many many years ago.

But ex-IAF guys in KSA and with F-15s is news.

Hmm, one wonders what surprise will get sprung on unsuspecting jingo by the Defence Forces.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 05 Apr 2011 19:50

Mostly engineers and some pilots, post retirement, and without government involvement. UAE and SA buy far excess number of planes compared to requirements, because they have high attrition. Our engineers and pilots keep that fleet ship shape. They used to hire ex US/UK/French but Pakistani and Indians are much more enthusiastic and efficient. Indian ex's work worldwide, in Africa with private Peace Support orgs, and there is a whole bunch of Gurkhas and Punjabis in Iraq. Singapore has a Gurkha unit like the British Army.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 05 Apr 2011 20:17

^^
Thanks. That was very interesting.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 06 Apr 2011 21:11

sum wrote:
The history of cooperation with India on nuclear submarines, begun with the Chakra lease, lived on with a 2000 agreement for a long-term lease of the K-152 Nerpa third-generation multi-purpose nuclear submarine (order 518, developed by SPMBM Malakhit)...... the Nerpa contract. [/size][/b]
Two SSNs are to be leased to the IN!!!!

So, we will have 2 SSN( Russian) + 1 SSBN ( Arihant) by 2015?

I told you so, I told you so. Please refer my earlier chaiwala post- Most probably its hull number 337- The Kuguar.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 06 Apr 2011 22:11

^^^^ It was always 2. One on patrol, one for training/stand by and one in maintainence. IIRC, I had written about it. Will post the likn when I find it.

venku_Raj · Post by **venku_Raj** » 06 Apr 2011 23:18

Navy considering upgrading HDW submarines due to delays in Scorpene submarine project

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Apr 2011 05:48

Antiship Missiles Threaten Status Quo

The NPO P-800 Yakhont (SS-N-26 Sapless) is 3 tons, 9.75 meters long, ramjet-powered and reaches Mach 2.8. It can adopt a low-high-low profile, with a cruise altitude of 14,000 meters and final attack profile of 10-15 meters. High-altitude flight yields a 170-nm. range; at low altitude, range is less than 70 nm. The Yakhont has a 250-kg semi-piercing warhead and pulls 20g. It is the basis for the Indian-Russian BrahMos, now entering service......

None of these weapons compares with the best that Russian and Western companies are developing or deploy, but they are cheap and can be sold to countries that have no access to anything better.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 07 Apr 2011 06:44

besides the Singapore Army, their internal security forces also hire Nepalis/Gurkhas.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Apr 2011 02:04

Naval Command upgraded to tackle Chinese threat

...
The Eastern Command at Visakhapatnam would soon be having a forward base at Tuticorin and an operational turnround base at Pardeep to provide more agility to the eastern fleet. Both will be ready within the 12th plan.

Keeping up with the growing stature of command, the Centre has upgraded the post of Chief of Staff of the Eastern Command to be a three-star officer. Rear Admiral S Lamba will take over as the Vice Admiral on May 1, sources said.

...
While the command currently have the landing platform dock Jalashwa and Shivalik Class stealth frigates, it will house the new P8I maritime surveillance aircraft, which India purchased from the US. Besides Dega and Rajali, a new air station has come up in Parundu.
The strategic assets – three nuclear submarines – would be based in Visakhapatnam. The first one – INS Arihant – is scheduled to be inducted next year while two others are under development.
...
...

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 08 Apr 2011 05:43

I was just reading through the Brahmaputra class (Beas, Betwa) ffg page on BR...geez these things are absolute pocket rockets (callme chauvinist for the lack of a better name

)

The sheer amount of firepower that one ship carries is just immense 16 urans, white head torpedoes, barak 1s, 4 ak630s and some pretty capable radars, sonars, decoys ityadi....If we take out a mr sam these ships carry the same firepower of a larger ddg...kudos to the IN for coming up with such a concept...

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Apr 2011 06:26

The strategic assets – three nuclear submarines – would be based in Visakhapatnam. The first one – INS Arihant – is scheduled to be inducted next year while two others are under development.

3 nuclear subs?
1- Arihant -- check
1- Akula-II SSN -- check ( once its interior painting is done

)
1- ??

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 08 Apr 2011 06:57

interesting wordplay.
The strategic assets - three nuclear submarines(they dont say the three nuclear...) if assuming we put arihant/akula1,2 at Vizag what will happen to west coast. May be the three are arihant and the two siblings of arihant. the akulas will be on the west coast

Makes sense to have the arihants close to the place where they are being built for repairs and customisations.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 08 Apr 2011 08:53

May be the three are arihant and the two siblings of arihant

yeah. and that's what the 'under development" part implies. Moreover SBC-Vishakapatnam .

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 08 Apr 2011 09:37

One of the reasons why Karwar has fallen in priority.

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Apr 2011 10:12

Ok....that explains it.

So, 3 Arihant class subs are more for China side and 1 /2 SSNs ( Akula-IIs) to tackle the pakis/provide support to the Vik/IAC CBG.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Apr 2011 10:31

news item in TOI day about ENC being beefed up:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 908676.cms

Eye on China, Navy boosts Eastern Command
TNN | Apr 8, 2011, 03.14am IST

NEW DELHI: With an eye on China as well as in keeping with India's "Look East" policy, the Navy is slowly but surely bolstering force levels on the eastern coast with new warships, aircraft and spy drones as well as forward-operating bases (FOBs).

So much so that the Navy has now upgraded the post of the chief of staff (CoS) at the Eastern Naval Command (ENC), which is next only to the flag officer commanding-in-chief, to a three-star general rank. Vice-Admiral S Lanba will take over as the new CoS at ENC on May 1, 2011. The other full-fledged naval operational command, the Western Naval Command (WNC) based at Mumbai, has had a vice-admiral as the CoS for quite some time now.

Additions to the ENC, which has around 50 warships at present, include the new indigenously-manufactured stealth frigate INS Shivalik, which is packed with weapons and sensors, and the 16,900-tonne INS Jalashwa, the huge strategic sea-lift amphibious warship second only to aircraft carrier INS Viraat in size.

"The next two indigenous stealth frigates being built at Mazagon Docks, INS Satpura and INS Sahyadri, which should be commissioned by 2012, will also be based in ENC. Tuticorin and Paradeep are being developed as FOB and OTR (operational turn-around) bases," said a source.

Then, the new fleet tanker, INS Shakti, which should come to India from Italy by September, and the P-8I Poseidon long-range maritime patrol aircraft will also be based in ENC. India is acquiring 12 P-8I aircraft, the first of which is slated for induction by early-2013, from the US for over $3 billion to plug the existing gaps in its surveillance of the entire Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

While these aircraft will be based in Rajali, Navy is also going to deploy spy drones or UAVs at the Parundu air station in Tamil Nadu. At present, Navy has two UAV squadrons based at Kochi and Porbandar, with Parundu and Port Blair next on the agenda. As part of Navy's three-tier aerial surveillance grid for IOR, the drones are already being used for the innermost layer reconnaissance up to 200 nautical miles.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Apr 2011 10:33

my wild guess would be FOB - food, fuel, munitions and minor spares ; OTR - all in FOB + replacement crew basing + heavier upkeep facility.

akshay · Post by **akshay** » 08 Apr 2011 17:58

Can we discuss the IN acquisition of the Kangnam McMv? Why Kangnam? why didnt GOI buy the Us Osprey when they had a chance?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Apr 2011 18:12

the two ospreys available for sale are apparently being picked up. the others are mothballed but likely not for sale (reserve) or unfit for sale.

the italians wanted the entire order to be build in Italy so ...

kangnam's will be far more than 2, one can expect 8-10 in first lot and more thereafter. they will each serve around 40 yrs from induction.

akshay · Post by **akshay** » 08 Apr 2011 18:39

Singha wrote: kangnam's will be far more than 2, one can expect 8-10 in first lot and more thereafter. they will each serve around 40 yrs from induction.

Right but kangnam copies Italian Intermarine which is the basis for Osprey.
Isnt the IN going for a cheaper and low quality alternative?

Rupak · Post by **Rupak** » 08 Apr 2011 21:37

Cheaper =/= Low Quality

Kangnam best fits our requirements, including price.

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 08 Apr 2011 22:58

akshay wrote:Can we discuss the IN acquisition of the Kangnam McMv? Why Kangnam? why didnt GOI buy the Us Osprey when they had a chance?

Yes we can. Long time ago Intermarine Shipbuilding Company built minesweepers for Italian Navy (in 1980's). These ships were known as Lerici Class ships. In 1990's they added a new sonar and also supplemented there length and weight and called it as Gaeta Class.

All around the world minehunters were developed based on Lerici class (Malaysia, Thailand, Finland, Australia and even Ospery of USN)
The Koreans also copied the same design in there "Swallow Class" minehunters. Which is a cheaper option but with little less capable nut and bolts as compared to European and USN ships. These swallow class ships are built in Kangnam Shipbuilding, and this is what we have bought.

Now the brighter side of the deal is that we will get 'almost' same looking ship in 'almost' half the price, plus we get to make later 6 at our place (which is something Intermarine was not offering) and which in turn will enable us to replace few of Korean nut and bolts with ours or those imported from our other friends, to make a better end product.

As far as Osprey is considered GOI never got option of buying them. Sometime back rumors were that US has agreed to 'transfer' two of its decommissioned ships (namely Kingfisher and Coron.. something) to IN. But now nobody seems to have heard anything like that. Also even if we had got those two, we still need much more. Plus those were decommissioned junk! (which due to some reasons everybody in India likes to have as much as possible)

akshay wrote:
Singha wrote: kangnam's will be far more than 2, one can expect 8-10 in first lot and more thereafter. they will each serve around 40 yrs from induction.
Right but kangnam copies Italian Intermarine which is the basis for Osprey.
Isnt the IN going for a cheaper and low quality alternative?

Seems True! As "Swallow Class" is the least capable of all the designs derived from Lerici/Gaeta class of ships. But I think IN will generously apply the Indian Juggad Tech in the later six that will be built in GSL and make them at par with Others of Lerici Class. And will save some coins overall.