Indian Naval Discussion

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 01 Feb 2011 02:18

So does the IN collect the replacement value from Nordlake's insurer?

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 01 Feb 2011 03:04

SaiK:

Have you even looked at the reports? A large merchant vessel was unable to navigate properly due to high tidal flow. Everyone was aware of what was happening. However they did not have the mechanisms to control the movement of the two ships to avoid contact. Ships do not turn or move on a dime. No radar could have helped here. Perhaps some more smarter control of the sea-lanes may have helped.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Feb 2011 04:09

Looks like the ship will be written off due to fire.

THird Ship added to confusion

I also submit the extent of the fire was not realised till too late.

The beleaguered warship INS Vindhyagiri was taken to the Naval Dockyard and evacuated on Sunday evening. The blaze that erupted on board was brought under control by firefighters of the Naval Dockyard, Mumbai Port Trust and Mumbai fire brigade by 3.45 pm on Monday. Fire brigade officials said naval personnel underestimated the fire and informed them too late.

Naval officials blamed the container vessel Nordlake's crew and said a third ship was also part of the confusion that led to the collision on Sunday afternoon. Vice-Admiral Sanjeev Bhasin, commander-in-chief, Western Naval Command, told TOI on Monday, "We have investigated and it is clear that the Nordlake's crew is to blame. Vindhyagiri was returning from the sea with another vessel, MV Sea Eagle, when Nordlake was leaving the harbour. There was immense confusion between the crew of the Nordlake and the Sea Eagle. Finally the crew of the Nordlake panicked and turned the ship, ramming it into the engine room and boiler of the Vindhyagiri, which was travelling at low speed. Her fuel tank also ruptured due to the impact.''

Bhasin said records of communication between the Nordlake and Sea Eagle show the confusion. "The two ships first wanted to pass to the left of each other. A few minutes later, they decided to pass to the right of each other. Again a decision was taken to pass to the left of each other. As they came closer, the Nordlake crew panicked and turned right. As a result, the ship rammed into the INS Vindhyagiri.''

Ribarczyk P, managing director of Reederei 'Nord' Klaus E Oldendorff, which owns the Nordlake, said from Hamburg, Germany, "We are not aware about a case being registered. However, we are going to conduct our own investigations. Our representative will be arriving in India as soon as he gets a visa. In the meantime, we have appointed a local representative to guide us in our investigations."

Bhasin said, "We were quite lucky that everyone safely returned to the harbour." A fire official said, "The engine room and boiler were hit. The boiler was hot and more fuel started oozing out. As a result, the fire became unmanageable after midnight on Sunday." The fire brigade was alerted at 4.30 am on Monday and it sent eight fire tenders and six tankers to the spot.

By morning, most of the frigate was burnt. There was ingress of water in many parts and she lost balance and landed on the seabed. However, the water was too shallow for her to completely sink. "We wanted the ship to settle in the dock as controlling the flames was impossible," said a fire official.

The ship was expected to rise again during high tide. Naval officials said it cost the Coast Guard Rs 162 crore to retrieve Vivek, which was rammed in the harbour and sank last year. In Vindhyagiri's case, salvaging the ship may cost over Rs 200 crore. Bhasin said Vindhyagiri was to be decommissioned next year. The navy's inquiry is expected to assess damages and recommend if the ship can be used again. Bhasin said the navy would do its best to retrieve the ship and claim damages.

The FIR, filed at the Yellow Gate police station, accuses the captain and crew of the Nordlake under IPC sections 280 (rash navigation), 337 (causing hurt) and 427 (mischief causing damage).

Capt Manohar Nambiar, chief PRO, defence, said, "The origin or cause of the fire is difficult to ascertain now, since the compartments are filled with smoke."

The Yellow Gate police have asked for the communication logs and videos of the incident. The logs between the Nordlake and Sea Eagle are being handed over to the Director-General of Shipping.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Feb 2011 04:10

thanks. yes I didn't see the report earlier.. got totally confused reading multiple links. The DNA one was talking about "low tides". Anyways, this is sad.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Feb 2011 06:55

Vivek K wrote:Great! Now that Dr. Shiv has answered, we can all go back to sleep. All of us of persons of lesser intellect and knowledge should not raise uncomfortable questions. Roger! Out!

Ah - I knew you were a man of reason. Sleep well - will give you a call when the next ship sinks so you can sound us ignorants off about your anxieties.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Feb 2011 07:03

ramana wrote: THird Ship added to confusion
In Vindhyagiri's case, salvaging the ship may cost over Rs 200 crore. Bhasin said Vindhyagiri was to be decommissioned next year[/b].

200 crores is peanuts. Any single individual in Karnataka's patriotic state government will be able to raise that amount for our navy. Only thing is that if it was to be decommissioned in 2012 - no such sacrifice will be needed.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Feb 2011 07:56

I think part of the problem is because for a ship to enter navy docks, they have to cut across the line of incoming ships from JNPT and further upstream in the channel.

We all know how challenging that can be at any regular traffic crossing, there are no traffic lights as it is on the seas. Even looking at the google earth pics of the area, one can see how crowded that channel is. There are several ships parked around, waiting to be docked, there are narrow lanes for ships to move into, and typically if there is a tide, it would be very tight indeed.

Again the argument that a naval station with top of the line warships should not be around such a busy civilian shipping channel. (but the progress of civilian development can't be stopped either). A similar situation exists on the airports where the IAF and IN have to share a lot of the airstrips with the civilian traffic.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Feb 2011 08:02

SaiK wrote:
wiki wrote:Name: INS Vindhyagiri
Commissioned: 8 July 1981
General characteristics
Class and type: Nilgiri class frigate
Displacement: 2682 tons (standard)
2962 tons (full load)
Length: 113 m
Beam: 13 m
Draught: 4.3 m
MV Nordlake
http://www.rnkeo.com/reederei_nord/flee ... rdlake.php
Length over all 179.23 m
Length between pp 167.72 m
Breadth moulded 25.30 m
Depth to maindeck 13.50 m

Tonnage:
International 16,202 / 8,980 GT/NT
Panama 17,002 / 14,431 GT/NT
Suez 17,077 / 14,425 GT/NT

At a minimum the Nordlake is 3 times as heavy as the Vindhyagiri. Assuming a mass of 9000 tons colliding at 5 knots (9 kmph) the energy transferred to the Vindhyagiri would be the same as one thousand 40 kg 155 mm shells travelling at 500 meters per second. Or a 1000 kg missile hitting the Vindhyagiri at 81,000 kmph.

That rate of energy transfer will melt metal and ignite anything that can burn.

Ship collisions are serious business and the fact that it did not sink immediately speaks volumes for the punishment that naval ships are designed to take.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Feb 2011 08:03

How liable is the Pilot of the cargo ship and the navigation team in the accident?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Feb 2011 08:17

The merchant vessel company perhaps could be charged and pay? Do these ships carry insurance?

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 01 Feb 2011 08:22

Nordlake's papers have been confiscated.
Just like Mumbai Traffic Police operating procedure.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Feb 2011 08:57

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 400840.cms

Vindhyagiri was returning from the sea with another vessel, MV Sea Eagle, when Nordlake was leaving the harbour. There was immense confusion between the crew of the Nordlake and the Sea Eagle. Finally the crew of the Nordlake panicked and turned the ship, ramming it into the engine room and boiler of the Vindhyagiri, which was travelling at low speed. Her fuel tank also ruptured due to the impact.''

Bhasin said records of communication between the Nordlake and Sea Eagle show the confusion. "The two ships first wanted to pass to the left of each other. A few minutes later, they decided to pass to the right of each other. Again a decision was taken to pass to the left of each other. As they came closer, the Nordlake crew panicked and turned right. As a result, the ship rammed into the INS Vindhyagiri.''

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Feb 2011 09:07

A comparison pf the relative sizes of the Vindhyagiri and Nordlake

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 01 Feb 2011 09:16

Meanwhile...

Posting in full on account of direct relevance to this site:

PANAJI: Even as opposition to the navy's acquisition of two more islands and Bimbvel beach in Mormugao taluka is growing, information on army and navy websites points to the fact that Dabolim airport was used purely for civilian operations before December 19, 1961.

According to the Indian Navy's website (indiannavy. nic.in), in the section 'Transition to triumph', chapter 17, there is an input on 'The Goa Operation in December 1961' written by a naval officer who was part of Operation Vijay. It states: "Lt Cdr (later Admiral) RH Tahiliani, flew the Seahawks from Vikrant in 1961. He recalls: 'Early on the morning of 18 December, we were briefed that the Portuguese had Sabres in Goa and that they would possibly be coming out to sea to attack us. I was the leader of the first combat air patrol to get airborne at first light. I positioned myself between the ship and Goa and followed this routine throughout the day. We did not sight any enemy at all. After the operation, it transpired that the Portuguese did not have a single aircraft at Goa. It was faulty intelligence'." This clearly indicates that the airport was used for civilian purposes. The website of India's armed forces (www.bharatrakshak. com), has a piece that throws more light into what transpired at that time. An article written by air force officer Air Marshal S Raghavendran describes the events and states: "The Dabolim airport was up for grabs and it was offered to the Air Force automatically but they didn't need a base in the area as they already had Poona and there was no operational need for a base involving considerable outlay. Then the navy stepped in and the rest is history."

Interestingly, the article also has a paragraph which states: 'The greatest beneficiary in the liberation of Goa was the Indian Navy. They didn't fire a single shot. The Portuguese admiral surrendered with all his ships in the port, including the Albuquerque, the flag ship of the Portuguese navy..."

Goa was liberated from Portuguese rule by the Indian Union on December 19, 1961, after which the airport at Dabolim came under the Indian Navy's control. Social activist and former tourism minister Matanhy Saldanha said, "The airport was run by the Obras Publicas (public works department) of the provincial government of Goa, and not by the authorities in Lisbon. A private airline Transportes Aéreos da Índia Portuguesa ran civilian operations. A government of India gazette in the 1960s states that Dabolim has been categorized as an airport, not a defence airport. Similarly, airports taken over during a war, are handed back to the civilians once the war is over. This was not done after the 1962 Indo-China war." Rajya Sabha MP Shantaram Naik, who has also been consistently voicing his opposition to the Navy's occupation of the airport said, "We would like to know what title documents the Navy holds to justify their names in the Form I and XIV. The Goa government did acquire some land and handed it over to the Navy. However, most of the land has been occupied by them. When the Airport Authority of India requested them for some land, they refused to give it. This is like, we the airport owners are mundkars (tenants) in our own land. Even mundkars have better rights."

Regarding Navy's acquisition of Bimbvel beach and the St George islands, Saldanha says, "We have already made a great sacrifice by handing over Anjediva island to the Navy, free of cost. Now, they want more. Is the Coast Guard not competent to patrol the coast? Is the Navy unsure of itself ?" Saldanha said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 401840.cms

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 01 Feb 2011 09:35

D Roy,

The other 2 islands have private interest from state govt bearers. I hope you figure out what I am trying to say.

I have covered it here

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 01 Feb 2011 09:38

@Avik Above... the question is not one of structural weakness.

The MV Nordlake is a 22,500 Tonne class Container Carrier. (http://www.rnkeo.com/reederei_nord/fleet/index.php)

The Vindhyagiri was a 2,600 Tonne Frigate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Vindhyagiri_(F42))

If you crash into something TEN TIMES your size, the result is pretty predictable.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 01 Feb 2011 09:45

chackojoseph wrote:D Roy,

The other 2 islands have private interest from state govt bearers. I hope you figure out what I am trying to say.

I have covered it here

Obviously, this hue and cry being raised by the honourable member of parliament, is because he gives more of a hoot about the lining of his pocket, and less about security. Later, once his restaurant is back up and running, if (god forbid), another attack happens, he will bawl in parliament about how the navy is lax about security.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Feb 2011 09:49

shiv wrote:
ramana wrote: THird Ship added to confusion
In Vindhyagiri's case, salvaging the ship may cost over Rs 200 crore. Bhasin said Vindhyagiri was to be decommissioned next year[/b].
200 crores is peanuts. Any single individual in Karnataka's patriotic state government will be able to raise that amount for our navy. Only thing is that if it was to be decommissioned in 2012 - no such sacrifice will be needed.

Shiv Saar-> Any need for this insunation, I am sure certain Dynasties, media Barons, individuals from Central Government, Mahrastra, Kerala, WB, Rajastan, UP , TN, Andra state Governments can also do the same. In fact former MP of the PARTY OF THE POOR have bought an IPL team. So lets keep politics out of this.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Feb 2011 09:52

Aditya_V wrote:
Shiv Saar-> Any need for this insunation, I am sure certain Dynasties, media Barons, individuals from Central Government, Mahrastra, Kerala, WB, Rajastan, UP , TN, Andra state Governments can also do the same. In fact former MP of the PARTY OF THE POOR have bought an IPL team. So lets keep politics out of this.

Thank you for setting the record straight. The money is not the problem. Specific parties are not the problem. They are all equally patriotic, I am sure. I speak for those whom I am most familiar with on a day to day basis, as you do I am sure.

nits · Post by **nits** » 01 Feb 2011 09:56

Pic of Vindhyagiri sinking from Livefist...

some videos from news channels

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 01 Feb 2011 11:10

ASPuar wrote: I have covered it here

Obviously, this hue and cry being raised by the honourable member of parliament, is because he gives more of a hoot about the lining of his pocket, and less about security. Later, once his restaurant is back up and running, if (god forbid), another attack happens, he will bawl in parliament about how the navy is lax about security.

The Goa attack if comes through will be from Russian or Israeli mafia

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Feb 2011 12:03

From the pic of the Nordlake,it can be clearly seen from the curve of the bows at the waterline,that it has a bulbous protruding keel which is what would've caused the immense damage to the frigate below the waterline especially in the engine and bolier room.I am not sure what can be salvaged of the frigate,since reports say that the fire toook hold almost everywhere within the ship,unless refloating it is essential for insurance or suing the Nordlake for damages,there being a disticnction between a vessel sum or one severely damaged.

However,it would be of great interest to the IN's naval ship design bureau to examine the damage to the frigate and use the information for better damage control in the design of future warships.When HMS Sheffield was hit by an Argentinian Exocet missile,the missile's warhead reportedly did not explode and it was the balance fuel of the missile which caught fire,spread throughout the warship,which finally destroyed it.From damage to RN warships in the Falklands War,the RN started designing its warships with improved damage control measures,including that of larger hatches between compartments so that firefighting crews with their bulky eqpt. on could have better access to all aprts of the ship.In comparison,one must examine the case of the USS Cole,which was attacked by a suicide barge in Yemen while at berth, blasting a huge hole in her side.Thanks to the efforts of the crew,the ship was saved and later repaired to do duty once again with the USN.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 01 Feb 2011 12:25

Just hope that the captain and crew get a fair hearing, and there are no lynch operations... If theyre not at fault, I hope they dont pay for something that isnt their mistake!

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 01 Feb 2011 14:17

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 395672.cms

M V Nordlake started off from JNPT at 1.54 pm on Sunday with a JNPT pilot to escort it out of the channel. N N Kumar, JNPT deputy chairman, said, "Our pilot was constantly in touch with the vessel tracking monitoring system on the wireless. The collision happened near the Sunk Rock Lighthouse at around 3.30 pm."

Given that Nordlake had a Port Trust pilot, it appears harbour control erred as well.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... indhyagiri was returning from the sea with another vessel, MV Sea Eagle, when Nordlake was leaving the harbour. There was immense confusion between the crew of the Nordlake and the Sea Eagle. Finally the crew of the Nordlake panicked and turned the ship, ramming it into the engine room and boiler of the Vindhyagiri, which was travelling at low speed. Her fuel tank also ruptured due to the impact.'' Bhasin said records of communication between the Nordlake and Sea Eagle show the confusion. "The two ships first wanted to pass to the left of each other. A few minutes later, they decided to pass to the right of each other. Again a decision was taken to pass to the left of each other. As they came closer, the Nordlake crew panicked and turned right. As a result, the ship rammed into the INS Vindhyagiri.''[/quote]As explained earlier, helm and navigator of both ships were unable to estimate the drifting impact of tide on their courses, and were not sure which way they would pass.

I spent some time looking up the rule books last night, and then realized today morning after googling that the rulebook was online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... ons_at_Sea

Analysing the actions vis-a-vis what the rulebook says -

Bhasin said records of communication between the Nordlake and Sea Eagle show the confusion.

The two ships first wanted to pass to the left of each other.

Correct action as per rules 14 below

14. Head-on situations
When two power-driven vessels are meeting head-on both must alter course to starboard so that they pass on the port side of the other. 'Head-on' means seeing the other vessel ahead or nearly ahead so that by night her masthead lights are actually or nearly lined up and/or seeing both her sidelights, or by day seeing a similar aspect of her.[4]

A few minutes later, they decided to pass to the right of each other.

Did the tide drift caused a crossing situation described below? This needs to be scrutinized

15. Crossing situations
When two power-driven vessels are crossing, the vessel which has the other on the starboard side must give way and avoid crossing ahead of her.[4] The saying is "If to starboard red appear, 'tis your duty to keep clear".[7]

Again a decision was taken to pass to the left of each other.

Even though this complies in letter to rule 14, it violates the spirit of rules 16 & 17 below

16. The give-way vessel
The give-way vessel must take early and substantial action to keep well clear.[4]
17. The stand-on vessel
The stand-on vessel shall maintain her course and speed, but she may take action to avoid collision if it becomes clear that the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action, or when so close that collision can no longer be avoided by the actions of the give-way vessel alone. In a crossing situation, the stand-on vessel should avoid turning to port even if the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action. These options for the stand-on vessel do not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligations under the rules.[4]

As they came closer, the Nordlake crew panicked and turned right. As a result, the ship rammed into the INS Vindhyagiri.''

This again complies in letter to rule 15, but violates rule 16 & 17, and coupled with earlier violations, will be subject to a lot of legal acrimony. An example should be made by claiming damages, and I hope the Attorney General's and Solicitor General's offices are up to the mark. Having said that, the low residual life of Vindhyagiri will ensure the actual money paid might not be high.

Edited later - made some corrections.

Gagan - Channels are well marked, and naval ships do not cross paths with JNPT ships. I have a national hydrographic office chart of mumbai, however its too big to be scanned.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 01 Feb 2011 14:35

Indian Naval Aircraft Yard at Kochi turns Fifty

NAY, Kochi has over the years, many significant achievements such as refurbishment of Alize aircraft, modifications to Chetak helicopters for the first ever aero magnetic survey of Antarctica in 1987, conversion of Islander aircraft from piston engine to turbine engine in 1996, and suitable modification to Seaking helicopters to overcome sanctions post Pokhran. NAY also has the has overhauled and repaired, the Sea Harrier aircraft. The Yard has a dedicated high tech test bed facility to test the Sea Harrier engines.

nits · Post by **nits** » 01 Feb 2011 14:47

Navy Says 3rd ship added to chaos

The beleaguered warship INS Vindhyagiri was taken to the Naval Dockyard and evacuated on Sunday evening. The blaze that erupted on board was brought under control by firefighters of the Naval Dockyard, Mumbai Port Trust and Mumbai fire brigade by 3.45 pm on Monday. Fire brigade officials said naval personnel underestimated the fire and informed them too late.

Naval officials blamed the container vessel Nordlake's crew and said a third ship was also part of the confusion that led to the collision on Sunday afternoon. Vice-Admiral Sanjeev Bhasin, commander-in-chief, Western Naval Command, told TOI on Monday, "We have investigated and it is clear that the Nordlake's crew is to blame. Vindhyagiri was returning from the sea with another vessel, MV Sea Eagle, when Nordlake was leaving the harbour. There was immense confusion between the crew of the Nordlake and the Sea Eagle. Finally the crew of the Nordlake panicked and turned the ship, ramming it into the engine room and boiler of the Vindhyagiri, which was travelling at low speed. Her fuel tank also ruptured due to the impact.''

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 01 Feb 2011 17:25

Some photos I clicked on board INS Viraat that day. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3CUAU5M0

this is from a cell camera with 8 mega pixel

ps- none are of the accident

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 01 Feb 2011 17:36

off topic,

but is there any good news to share at the moment?

you have lobbyists of varied forms sniping at the LCA project, you have the unacceptable loss of a warship in a non-combat situation ... I could go on.

Where is the joy?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Feb 2011 20:19

Can the Navy claim damages from the Nordlake? Is the Nordlake detained? I'm sure it has insurance to cover stuff like this?

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 01 Feb 2011 21:43

already Navy is short of ships and there goes another

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Feb 2011 22:07

WRT the Vindhyagiri discussion. The one question that has not been asked is, the state of the damage Control capabilities of the Ships of the fleet?

shaunb · Post by **shaunb** » 01 Feb 2011 22:38

ramana wrote:SaiK, Here the high tide caused waves which were more than expected for the separation distance between the big ship and the smaller naval ship. The big ship swerved to avoid another and bumped the naval ship.

A question out of curiosity....

How much time does it take for a big vessel like Nordlake to turn. Seeing the pictures from HT posted on the LiveFist Blog, it looks like the Nordlake was too big to miss and at the same time the Vindhyanagiri quite small in comparison. So could INS Vindhyagiri have been able to steer out of the way seeing the MV Nordlake before it turned? There seems to have been an impact almost at 90 degrees, meaning the MV Nordlake would have taken quite a bit of time.

Nandan D · Post by **Nandan D** » 01 Feb 2011 22:57

D Roy
Post subject: Re: Indian Naval DiscussionPosted: 01 Feb 2011 17:36

BRFite

Joined: 08 Oct 2009 17:28
Posts: 650
off topic,

but is there any good news to share at the moment?

you have lobbyists of varied forms sniping at the LCA project, you have the unacceptable loss of a warship in a non-combat situation ... I could go on.

Where is the joy?

No joy, but it could have been a lot worse.

No loss of life. Which is no mean feat, given that it was hit amidships by another ship 10 times it size, and given the fact that the boiler room caught fire.

And the ship, though striken, was due for decommissioning next year anyway.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 01 Feb 2011 23:19

NDTV managed to get a cell phone video from people on board .... this clearly shows three ships scenario and apparent lack of harbor management .. how can three ships became entangled in such a mess with all the gps and modern techs is beyond me.. .but may be there are issues that we are not even aware off.....
link to the video of the incident ..
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/t ... ire/189725

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Feb 2011 00:51

Any USS cole type of operation seen here? All kanpooshan caused by our deadly neighborhood seaside squads?

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 02 Feb 2011 00:59

SaiK wrote:Any USS cole type of operation seen here? All kanpooshan caused by our deadly neighborhood seaside squads?

cummon .. they will go for a more high value target than this.. not a near decommissioned leander class craft...and then too it will be publicized as terrorist attack to bring up the international press involved in a big way.... this looks like a legitimate naval accident in a badly managed crowded sea port...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Feb 2011 06:30

shaunb wrote:There seems to have been an impact almost at 90 degrees, meaning the MV Nordlake would have taken quite a bit of time.

Ships sailing at some speed take several hundred meters to turn. The problem about "maneuvering" is that in a narrow and crowded sea lane when you suddenly decide to maneuver - you can hit another ship. A crowded sea lane is like a crowded road. A road that is 10 meters wide is a narrow road. Depending on the traffic - a sea lane that is 5 km wide would be "narrow". It may not have been possible for the Vindhyagiri to maneuver at all. That is why narrow sea lanes have pilots and procedures for entry and exit. The other thing to remember is that not all ports have deep water all over where all ships can turn and sail with impunity. There may be lanes and channels that are deep, bordered by shallow underwater sand banks where a ship can run aground.

In October 2010 HMS Astute, Britain's most advanced new nuclear submarine ran aground. While it was being rescued from its predicament, it suffered a collision with a coastguard ship. Truly we feel pain only when that pain is inflicted to something close to our hearts and that is why there was an angry reaction on the forum to needless self flagellation asking if the Indian navy did not know how to avoid other ships.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 Feb 2011 06:47

Worst-ever peacetime loss for Navy, frigate sinks after collision off Mumbai

Naval experts termed the incident as shocking. “For a man of war to be almost scuttled in this manner is causing a lot of anguish to a lot of people. There is no doubt that for the Navy to have a ship go through such ignominy is very distressing,” C Uday Bhaskar, Director of the National Maritime Foundation, said.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 02 Feb 2011 08:04

it's the number 13. it's bloody unlucky for the Indian navy.

We lost one of the Veer class corvettes when there were 13 of them ...

we have lost a frigate when there are 13 of those. .... ( well technically the Dunagiri was decommissioned in october .. so okay)

Hint: Hint: Build ships quickly so that we are never at 13.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 02 Feb 2011 08:17

‘Loss of frigate won’t affect Navy’