Indian Naval Discussion

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Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 05 Oct 2010 16:18

Glitches will arise even in the best of subs.For example,the USN's Virginia class is suffering a major problem with its anechoic hull coating,which is coming off in sheets of "hundreds of sq.ft."! Three of the four subs of the class are affected according to US reports.The Akula coming our way might have some features special to our requirements,differing from other examples of the class and might have some later technological improvements.

Here is a report about China's massive naval expansion with "four carriers" being built which will arrive in a decade's time.This is bound to affect the IN's carrier and sub acquisition plans which need to be (subs) boosted immediately to meet the challenge.

http://australianconservative.com/2010/ ... -build-up/

Xcpt:
US admiral tries to reassure on Chinese naval build-up

Peoples Republic of China frigate, Mianyang enters Sydney

Harbour last week. (Photo: Royal Australian Navy.)It was good to see that Admiral Roughead was in Australia this week meeting with America’s closest war-fighting ally over the past century. As he was there to reassure our Pacific partner, Roughead projected confidence by noting that the Chinese aircraft carrier threat in the Pacific would take years to develop as carrier operational skills are not learned overnight.

With four Chinese carriers scheduled to come on line in the next ten years, however, Admiral Roughead’s observation can be of little comfort to our Pacific allies. Anyone who watched the Beijing Olympics is aware that when the Chinese put their mind and resources toward a complex project, they can obtain amazing results in short order.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JTull » 05 Oct 2010 18:38

On the newswire from PTI (Sorry, no link)


4 maritime patrol jets and 4 amphibious warships for Navy
Oct. 5 (PTI) -- N C Bipindra
India today took a major step towards upgrading its Navy's
maritime air reconnaissance capability and amphibious warfare
strength by deciding to order four each of P8I Poseidon aircraft
and Landing Pontoon Docks (LPDs) totally worth over USD 5
billion.
The four P8I long-range maritime patrol aircraft will be an
add-on to the eight that India ordered from the US in January
2009 for USD 2.1 billion or nearly Rs 10,000 crore. These four
aircraft from the US aerospace major Boeing's stable would cost
India about USD 1 billion (less than Rs 5,000 crore).
The four LPDs, on the lines of INS Jalashwa that India
bought from the US for USD 50 million in 2007, would come at a
cost of Rs 16,000 crore and a global tender would be issued for
its under the Defence Ministry's 'Buy and Make' production
policy. Under this, India would make the warships through
license from a foreign firm.
The 17,000-tonne Jalashwa, formerly USS Trenton, is a
Austin class amphibious warfare ship that can carry about 1,000
fully armed army men and has four beach landing craft and six
helicopters.
The two decisions were taken at the meeting of the Defence
Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by Defence Minister A K Antony
and attended by the three armed forces chiefs and the defence
secretary this evening, ministry sources told PTI.
The decisions come close on the heels of Antony and Navy
Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma's visit to the US last week when they
had met the American security top brass to discuss both business
and defence cooperation.
Now the proposals for both these purchases would be sent to
the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for clearance, the
sources added.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 05 Oct 2010 20:12



In the mangled translation, the following stands out:

" In 2006 launched.Chakra, . Indian Navy, which planned to name the boat Chakra, were willing to pay $ 650 million, although the Russian side insisted on increasing the fee to $ 785 million on Nov. 8, 2008 during the sea trials, "Seal" in the Sea of Japan as a result of the unauthorized inclusion of automatic fire extinguishing system Loch killed 20 people, another 41 people were hospitalized. "Seal" was introduced in the Russian Navy on Dec. 28, 2009, in full has successfully completed the test in early June 2010.

According to the Defense Ministry plans Nerpa had to give India a lease before the end of the year. Earlier, the governor of the region Vyacheslav Shport reported that the submarine will be handed over to India only in March 2011, stating that the terms have shifted as a result of force majeure."


It's always 'force majeure' with the Russians. The Nerpa won't arrive for another year at least and they will insist on no penalties. I can see the same stupid thing happening again with the Vikramaditya. The IAC 1 will be commissioned before the Gorky/Vik sets sail for our shores.

True, the Russians don't do sanctions but they also don't deliver. I shudder to think what is going to happen with FGFA.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 22:09

the LPD deal should be interesting. quite a few european designs mistral, rotterdam, ocean and juan carlos class exist while US san antonio class still seems to be building.

imo south korea and japan should also be considered strong contenders. they have designs in service and deliver on time without the european netagiri.

more than LPD type "beach attack" ships perhaps Dokdo type LPH "vertical airlift" ships are useful for india?
could also fit in as powerful ASW ships by adjusting the mix of helicopters while LPDs have too small a air wing.

in conjunction with the Koshy class gun cruisers outlined yesterday should be enough to clean up any island in the IOR.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vishnu.nv » 06 Oct 2010 01:31

Wow Just what we in this forum has been shouting for a long period. The question is in which shipyard we can license build these ships? Almost all our shipyard's are full except from the private ones.

It would be interesting to see to whom all the RFP will go to. As Singha saab said there are quite a few good designs in the market, May be we could team up with the Russians who are also in process of purchasing the same class of ships. The whole budget for four p-8I and 4 LPDs is 5 billion, out of which 1.5 Billion USD would be for p-8I.

That leaves around 3.5 Billion for four ships. Hopefully we could workout the deal soon , if we start construction today it would take another 5 years for ship to enter service.

San antonio class cost is quoted 1.4 billion a pop where as mistral would be around 600 million each.

We have established good defense relationships with Japan and South Korea in past few years, Their ships especially the Dokdo class would be the best buy for India cost wise and capability wise.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Avik » 06 Oct 2010 03:09

the LPD deal should be interesting. quite a few european designs mistral, rotterdam, ocean and juan carlos class exist while US san antonio class still seems to be building.


Singha : I think it may be a better idea if the IN were to procure one of the "about to be mothballed" Royal Navy Albion Class LPDs. Its quite evident the RN will have to pull back somehwere. Increasingly they appear to be reluctant to draw down on the Trident submarines; hence, the LPDs may be a strong candidate for downsizing.

I would rather that the IN procures a couple of LPDs second hand from the US/UK/France and manufacture two at shipyards in India; would save a lot of moolah, get the numbers up quickly and also divert more resources to the submarine arm.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kartik » 06 Oct 2010 07:15


5 billion USD ? What are the folks at India Defence smoking when coming up with such titles for their articles ? :roll: These 4 P-8Is were on option, so the cost is exactly the same as the original 8.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupak » 06 Oct 2010 07:27

Maz can shed more light on this. As I understand it the competition is not so much for design, but for project management and the designation of a manufacturing yard. The design is an in-house (with foreign consultancy) one from GRSE/DND.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 06 Oct 2010 09:30

Rupak / Maz / Chacko,

Could this go to L&T yard, as they seem to have been sidelined for the Sub project, ac PIPAV(SP??) is alerady working on the off shore partol vessels.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JimmyJ » 06 Oct 2010 09:33

20,000-crore boost for Navy’s snooping power

“At least two of the LPDs will be constructed at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) at Visakhapatnam, which was transferred from the shipping ministry to the defence ministry last year to meet national security requirements of building strategic vessels,” said a source.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby dinesha » 06 Oct 2010 10:02

Russia may offer strategic technologies
Vladimir Radyuhin
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 814932.ece
Russia may offer India strategic defence technologies to retain dominant position in the Indian crowded weapons market, said a Russian expert.

“Growing international competition for the Indian defence market will push Russia to expand its cooperation with India into new sectors where it has no rivals, such as strategic weapons and technologies,” said Konstantin Makienko of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) ahead of the 10th session of the India-Russia intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation.

The IGC commission will meet in New Delhi on October 7 under co-chair of Defence Minister A. K. Antony and his Russian counterpart, Anatoly Serdyukov.

The Russian expert suggested that the two countries could diversify their defence ties into nuclear submarine technologies despite continuing international restrictions against India.

“India's de-facto joining of the nuclear club makes such restrictions rather pointless.”

In fact, Russia is already helping India acquire nuclear submarine capability. Next March, Russia will hand over an Akula-class attack submarine, Nerpa, to India on a 10-year lease.

Its design has been largely incorporated in India's first indigenously built nuclear submarine, INS Arihant, launched last year.
Cooperation in strategic weapons will be in line with Russia's long-time policy of offering India advanced defence technologies.

“Russia is interested in strengthening India's defence potential without any limitations,” said Mr. Makienko, adding Russia was not prepared to supply China high-end weapons systems that India received.

The fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), which India will build jointly with Russia, is one example of this policy.

“The FGFA programme will enable India to join the exclusive club of nations who have such weapon systems,” he said. “It will give India an overkill capability over China, not to mention Pakistan.”

The FGFA project marks a further shift in Indo-Russian defence ties from a buyer-seller relationship to joint design and construction of new weapons systems.

Top destination
In coming years India will remain number one destination for Russian defence sales, according to the Russian Centre for Analysis of International Weapons Trade (CAIWT). “In 2010-2013 India will account for 54.4 percent of Russian weapons exports estimated at over $15 billion,” the CAIWT said.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby D Roy » 06 Oct 2010 10:09

Alright Srai,

The figure for 47 ALH is based on what the Navy said in a press release on Navy day last year. Have things changed since then?
here's the breakup from that media handout.

AIRCRAFT ACQUISITION / UPGRADATION PLANS
LRMP : P-8 I Boeing
IL-38 retro-fitted with the ‘Sea Dragon’ suite MRMR : 11 Dorniers ex HAL Kanpur
06 being procured through global tendering
Helos : 16 MRH to replace Seakings (A/B)
47 ALH to replace Chetaks
Fighters : 16 MIG 29K
Training : 17 AJTs ex HAL

Then there are other things as well.

Most LHDs have six spots on the deck for embarking HLH or largish MLH. the actual number of helos per vessel would be much greater.

However the figure 'six' does hold good for LPD designs. So then are you suggesting that the Navy is opting for an LPD design similar to the trenton and not looking at LHD's at all? because as you know something like the Mistral BPC can carry much more than 6 MLH.

------------

The Navy presently operates 7 Hormones + 22 Helixes ( A & B). Reports in 2009 suggested that 5 more Helix Bs were on order.

and I think these would essentially replace the hormone. so with just this we would have 27 Helix A and B by 2022. It is conceivable that more Helix Bs might be order unless and until the Navy opts for the new helo based European solutions that are on offer.


In a recent DTI article Adm verma has clearly stated that for the forseeable future Naval AEW capability will be rotary. So it is not unfair to assume an accretion to Helix numbers.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sankum » 06 Oct 2010 10:59

RFI has been issued for 56 twin engine LUH of weight class lower than ALH for replacing chetaks.

So there is no question of 47 ALH to replace chetaks. ALH no. will remain capped at 8 nos. for utility purpose.

Present Ka-28 and Sea king fleet will retire by early 20's.

IN will use 10T class helos for ASW role. The tender is for 16nos. with 44 options ie. total 60nos.

6 nos. Ka 28 ASW are on order with INS Vikramaditya.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Willy » 06 Oct 2010 11:16

Pratyush wrote:Rupak / Maz / Chacko,

Could this go to L&T yard, as they seem to have been sidelined for the Sub project, ac PIPAV(SP??) is alerady working on the off shore partol vessels.


One may go to L&T to keep them quite :). L&T has all the right to make noise for being sidlined after receiving assurances from the govt.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Oct 2010 12:37

X-posted from the Indo-Russia thread.Talks have started today between the Indian and Russia defence teams,where the Russian Def. Min.Anatoly Serdyukov and AKA will hold joint discussions to boost Indo-Russian defence cooperation.Some very interesting viewpoints from Ruslan Pukhov,Director of CAST ( Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies) one of the accompanying members,a top Russian def. anayst,also a member of the advisory board to the Russian Def. Min.

"Russia should help India develop Nuclear triad" (ET news item).

View of top Russian defence analyst,Ruslan Pukhov,Director of the Moscow based "Centre for Analysis of Strategic Technologies",CAST.Pukhov is also a memebr of the Russian advisory board for defence.

Some excerpts:
Russia must help India develop SSBNs,deterrence similar to that of the US,UK.

In case China develos carriers,Russia must provide India with Oscar class SSGNs,naval TU-22M3 Backfires,and even Kirov class nuclear powered type 1144 battlecruisers.

Mr.Pukhov also said that what Russia provided India with was far superior tech wise than what had been given to China and the Indian Flankers were a "generation" ahead of Chinese ones,similarly Indian Talwars vs PLAN Sovremenny DDGs.There were also no equivalent with China to the the 5th-gen fighter,MTA and Brahmos programmes .He also said that China possesses a "potential threat" to Russia's Far east and Eatsern Siberia,which is why Russia undertook large scale military exercises ,Vostok 2010 recently.

The talks starting today between Russian and Indian defence teams might see the emergence of even more advanced defence programmes in the offing,perhaps involving some of the systems given above.


PS:If these systems are being offered they would give India a quantum leap in both strategic deterrent and especially naval def. capability.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SriSri » 06 Oct 2010 20:04

Philip wrote:PS:If these systems are being offered they would give India a quantum leap in both strategic deterrent and especially naval def. capability.


This is an interesting area. I would like to see if the Russian SLBM Bulaya (spelling?) test in the coming days will be successful or not.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SriSri » 06 Oct 2010 20:23

We don't have to wait too long for the Bulava SLBM .. http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20101006/160849837.html

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 06 Oct 2010 20:46

Pratyush wrote:Rupak / Maz / Chacko,

Could this go to L&T yard, as they seem to have been sidelined for the Sub project, ac PIPAV(SP??) is alerady working on the off shore partol vessels.


They do not allot work like that. L&T should go through the processes.

If you ask me if L&T can do this job, my answer is: NO!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 06 Oct 2010 23:06

Russia Should Help India in Developing N-Triad : Expert
ImageNews
Russia Should Help India in Developing N-Triad : Expert
Vinay Shukla

Moscow, Oct 5 (PTI)

Ahead of Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov's New Delhi visit, a Top Defence Expert has said Russia Should Help India in Developing its "Wholesome" Nuclear Triad to further advance bilateral defence cooperation.

"In my view, Russia Must Help India in the Development of its Wholesome Nuclear Triad, so that it has Naval, Air and Land Platforms for its Nuclear Delivery Systems," Ruslan Pukhov, Director of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) said.

Pukhov is also a Member of Public Advisory Board of the Russian Ministry of Defence and will accompany Serdyukov on his New Delhi visit beginning tomorrow during which the India-Russia intergovernmental commission on military- technical cooperation co-chaired by Defence A K Antony is to hold its annual session.

"Why Shouldn't We Jointly Work for the Development of an Indian SSBN (Nuclear Submarine for Launching Ballistic Missiles)" Pukhov told PTI.

He Suggested that India and Russia Could Jointly Develop a "de facto" Common Naval System of Nuclear Deterrence Similar to the one US and Britain Have.


"In case China Develops its Fleet of Aircraft Carriers, Russia could Offer Project 949 (Nato codename Oscar-II) Nuclear Submarines, Naval Tu-22M3 Bombers and Even, Although Could Sound Incredible, the Nuclear Propelled Missile Cruisers of Project 1144 (Orlan class)," Pukhov said.

Reacting to India's apprehensions about China's growing military clout, Pukhov termed as false reports that Moscow was giving superior weapons and technologies to Beijing.

"The Type of Harmony and Complementarity of the Military-Political Interests Russia has with India, will Simply never be in our relations with China. This Would Contradict the Elementary Norms of Geopolitics," he said.

"You will never hear Russian officials expressing concern at the growing Chinese military might, but all of them are well aware of its implications and very well understand that PRC poses a potential threat to Russia's Far East and Eastern Siberia," he said.

The Massive Wargames Vostok-2010 (Orient 2010) involving Thousand of Servicemen and Warships in the Far East and Eastern Siberia, during which the Russian Troops also Practiced the Use of Tactical Nuclear Weapons are the Reflection of this Concern, he said.

"The Indian Air Force's Sukhoi Su-30MKI is a Generation Ahead of Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters given to China. Same can be said about Talwar class Stealth Frigates built for India and ''Sovremenny'' class Destroyer sold to China.

"While India and Russia are jointly developing hypersonic BrahMos cruise missiles, Fifth Generation fighter (FGFA) and Futuristic Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA), No Such Project is Underway with China," Pukhov noted.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sankum » 07 Oct 2010 06:03


neeraj
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby neeraj » 07 Oct 2010 06:29


The 260-metre-long and 60-metre-broad gas turbine ship will be powered by four American GE LM 2500 aviation engines which generate 80 MW, enough to attain speed in excess of 28 knots. The vessel, which is expected to be ready by 2013, will have six generators of three mega Watts each.

DDM at its best

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 07 Oct 2010 07:46

A Possible Canidate for IAC-2 for which IN also issued RFI a while back.

Russia's Sukhoi Begins Su-33 Flanker-D Trials
Image
Russia's Sukhoi Begins Su-33 Flanker-D Trials
MOSCOW, October 5, 2010 (RIA Novosti)

Russia's Sukhoi Aircraft Holding Revealed on Tuesday it has Begun Ground and Flight Trials of the Modernized Fourth Generation Su-33 Naval Fighter.

The Su-33 Flanker-D is a carrier-based warplane, originally known as the Su-27K Flanker, which first rolled off the production line in the late 1980s.

Modernization Works and Trials are being Carried Out in the Russian Far Eastern city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur, a statement from Sukhoi said.

Russian-Chinese Su-33 Fighter Deal Collapses - Paper
RIA Novosti

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 07 Oct 2010 11:01

neeraj wrote:

The 260-metre-long and 60-metre-broad gas turbine ship will be powered by four American GE LM 2500 aviation engines which generate 80 MW, enough to attain speed in excess of 28 knots. The vessel, which is expected to be ready by 2013, will have six generators of three mega Watts each.

DDM at its best


Do not underestimate the DDM. They can easily come with with even more hilarious (read atrocoius) "information"

K


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 08 Oct 2010 11:55

Could the IN and the RAN come together to design the next generation SSK. India has a requirement for P75I the Ausies need to repalce the Collins. If the timeline of the two could be managed then this will represent an opportunity for both to come together and design a new SSK.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Oct 2010 12:29

first australia have to accepts us as betters and arrange to sell uranium etc. stop their endless rude behaviour and generally display much better behaviour than at present.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 08 Oct 2010 13:16

As said elsewhere the existing def. ties between Oz and the US will preclude any joint sub programme,especially if B'Mos is expectedly to be fitted to any IN design.Oz has to give up its animosity/suspicion of India and its inferiority complex too.There are areas where scope for common programmes exists,especially in the excellent INCAT fast transports/aux. vessels,which even the USN uses.We should adopt multi-hull designs for the future and OZ has large experience of the same.A JV for this would help bring both def. establshments closer.

The UK is to reveal shortly massive cuts in defence which will drastically affect the RN,desperate to save the two carriers being built.In order to save them,sacrifices have to be made and if reports are accurate,here is an excellent option for the iN to pick up a large number of GR Harriers/Sea Harriers which the RN are using and have mothballed respectively.Acquiring about 16-20 Harriers at bargain prices would assist the IN immensely in keeping the Viraat operational for a longer time,until IAC-2 also arrives.The Gorshkov/Vik and IAC-1 will need about 60 aircraft at least,apart from the Viraat's complement.The naval LCA which will definitely need the more powerful engine for STOBAR ops,also required by the MK-2 version,will take some more years to develop and flight test before production begins.Until that time when naval LCA production begins,these Harriers will provide an excellent stop-gap arrangement for carrier requiremnents and the aircraft can even be used later on aboard the 4 future amphibious vessels planned to provide ground support for amphib ops.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JTull » 08 Oct 2010 13:55

A major chunk of Australian political elite (esp. the ruling Labour Party) is China obsessed. Defense cooperation is okay, but joint-projects are of doubtful value to us. They don't have a great ship-building ability, so I'm not sure what will they bring to the table besides funds. And as Philip said, any large defense fund allocations will always be aimed at US.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 09 Oct 2010 06:28

Last edited by Juggi G on 10 Oct 2010 03:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 09 Oct 2010 16:58

Singha wrote:first australia have to accepts us as betters and arrange to sell uranium etc. stop their endless rude behaviour and generally display much better behaviour than at present.


And not cry when we beat them in cricket match.

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 09 Oct 2010 19:46

Caterpillar press release announcing that they will be having their products on board the Coast Guards Interceptor Boats:

Caterpillar Wins Milestone Bid to Power Indian Coast Guard Patrol Boats

Caterpillar Marine Power Systems to Provide Marine Propulsion Engines and Auxiliary Generator Sets to Larsen & Toubro (L&T) for 36 Interceptor Boats

Caterpillar Marine Power Systems was recently selected to supply the Indian Coast Guard (ICG) with 72x CatÒ 3516C marine propulsion engines (2525 bkW @ 1800 RPM, ‘D’ Rating) and 72x C4.4 auxiliary generator sets (86 eKW @ 1500 RPM) to power 36 Interceptor Boats, which will be built by Larsen & Toubro Limited (L&T), Mumbai. The patrol boats will be constructed with an aluminum alloy hull and feature water jet propulsion.

“Globally the demand for power systems applications in patrol boats is on the rise. The 3516C marine engine and C4.4 generator set have demonstrated superior capabilities in patrol boats around the globe, delivering exceptional results when it matters the most,” said Kody Chan, Sales Manager – Asia Pacific. “The proven performance of the Cat engines and generator sets in the defense industry will provide the ICG Interceptor boats with the power and reliability needed to successfully protect the shores of the Indian coastline.”

The engines and generator sets will be delivered over the course of three years, with the project scheduled to conclude in late 2013. The L & T Ship Design Center in Mumbai utilized the 3516C engine for much of the design work and finalized the decision to use Cat engines once tank test (scale model testing) was completed.

In recent years, the Indian government has committed to strengthening the resources in the Indian Navy and the Indian Coast Guard. In early 2010, L&T won a contract to design and build patrol boats for the ICG. Construction will be completed at L&T shipyards in Hazira and Katupalli.

Cat dealer Gmmco, located in India, will provide stellar product support and customer service to L&T and the Indian Coast Guard. With local Cat dealer product support offered at every port along the Indian coastline, routine maintenance and service assistance will be readily available for the Coast Guard.

“We look forward to forging a long-lasting relationship with L&T both on this project and our many areas of mutual interest,” Chan noted. “Caterpillar is deeply involved in India and is committed to providing outstanding local service capabilities backed by our global dealer network.”

Clicky


For those who may have missed the news of L&T winning the Indian coast guard deal for 36 High Speed Interceptor Boats from back in March 2010:

L&T bags Rs 977-cr order for interceptor boats

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 11 Oct 2010 16:18

Four Special Ships for Navy
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India
Four Special Ships for Navy
Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service
New Delhi, October 10

Signalling an important change in the long-term strategic plan of its armed forces, the Defence Ministry has okayed the purchase of four specialised ships that will triple the existing capability of launching offensive sea-borne “out of country operations” by the forces.

These Ships, called the Landing Platform Docks (LPDs), are essentially a Modern-Day Sea-Based Version of the Roman Epic “Trojan Horse” :D . Each carries in its huge lower deck hundreds of troops with tanks, vehicles and cargo. Such a ship can deliver men and equipment near a sea beach and does not need a berthing dock providing the option for landing thousands of troops near a spot chosen to attack.

The Defence Acquisition Council, headed by Defence Minister AK Antony, met earlier this week and cleared the purchase alongside the purchase of four additional long-range maritime aircraft for the Navy. The aircraft will allow dominance over the Indian Ocean. Currently, the Navy is woefully short of maritime surveillance platforms.

The additional LPDs were the first step towards increasing capability to launch “out-of-country operations”, set to be tripled over the next few years, sources said.

The Navy, at present, has one LPD, the INS Jalashwa, a 16,000-tonne displacement vessel. It was purchased form the USA for $50 million in 2007. The purchase of four additional LPDs would be done at a cost of more than $3.3 billion or Rs 18,000 crore. This time, the ministry has decided to call for a global tender. At least two of the ships would be manufactured at shipyard in India.

Forces that move across sea are referred to as “amphibious task force”. At present, India has the capability to move a Brigade, some 5,000 men, using the lone LPD along with a fleet of five smaller 4,500-tonne vessels called the Landing Ship Tank Large (LSTL) each of which can carry 10 tanks, 11 combat trucks and 500 troops.

Willy
BRFite
Posts: 283
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Willy » 11 Oct 2010 16:22

Well the Trenton seems to have served its purpose by helping the IN evaluate strategies and requirements.


Philip
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Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 11 Oct 2010 17:05

The Dragon's snorting and plans to visit the IOR on a regular basis has woken up the IN/MOD to the threat posed to our island territories.The A&N islands are the first line of defence of the Indian subcontinent and must be held at any cost.It is here where the first assault will be made in any naval spat with the PRC.The tsunami also showed up the poor capability of the IN with respect to transporting heavy vehicles and eqpt.India's merchant marine also has no Ro-Ro vessels,unlike most European nations,and this is another handicap which it suffers from.During the Falklands,the RN picked up a large number of merchantmen (STUFT),"ships taken up from trade",a strategy to fill the void in the navy's fleet.This included the QE2 used as a troop transport.

What the GOI should do is to take a holistic view of India as a maritime nation.It has been profoundly landlocked in a blinkered view of its history since Independence,with the first light of dawn seen during the famous exploits of the IN in '71.The threat of the USN Enterprise to India also saw a knee-jerk reaction from th establishment with India subsequently going nuclear and later on acquiring a N-sub on lease from Russia.
However,events in Pakistan at Gwadar,Burma-where the Chinese are active and Sri Lanka,have shown that China is making all the required preliminary moves required in establshing bases and logistic points in the IOR available to its navy ,so as to maintain permanent presence in it.$ PLAN carriers are being planned or constructed and despite China's dificulty in acquiring a naval fighter,as Russia is refusing to sell it the SU-33,in the fullness of time,China will develop on its own (by stealing tech),a naval fighter,most probably a J-10 or JF-17 first before moving on to a larger fighter like the naval Flanker.It might alternatively try and do so simultaneously and see which programme bears fruit first! There is no limit to Chinese funding for any defence project and its progress in military expansion and modernisation is relentless,like an army of soldier ants on the move.

The IN should ensure that the merchant marine also has a few Ro-Ro vessels/ferries,which can be put to excellent commercial use in operations on both coastlines,such as between Bombay,Goa and the West Coast,Tuticorin/Cochin to Colombo and Madras to Vizag,Pondicherry,etc.,apart from regular services to the A&N islands.The manner in which the Scottish isles are all linked superbly by Cal-Mac ferries and the use of even larger ferries in all European waters is a case in point.These can then be easily put to use in any crisis along with dedicated LHPD vessels.

One would prefer LHPD amphib vessels instead of LPDs,as the flat tops of the LHPDs enable them to be used as multi-role vessels,even for air defence/air support dor amphib ops using STOVL aircraft like USMC Harriers,and as an ASW light carrier using heavy ASW /multi-role helos like the EH-101,etc.The two best designs are the French Mistral and Juan Carlos ,the latter a little larger and having an extra deck,with extra multi-role capabilities.One would prefer a larger LHPD like the Juan Carlos,as it would give the In a greater flexibility and operational range and capability within the IOR and even beyond.




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