Indian Naval Discussion

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Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Oct 2010 16:35

Tx.Juggi for the pics and link,.From these,it appears that the EH-101 is te best option for the IN,since we are acquiring the same helo for the VVIP sqd. role.The neat manner in which the radar is stowed is abig improvement upon the installation on the Sea King.The Osprey,is fine for larger US carriers and may be too large for our carriers,present,building and future.If we can add to the EH-101 the Chetak UAV beind c-developed with Israel,the two should give us a considerable surveillance capability for our surface fleet from frigate sized vessels to carriers.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Surya » 18 Oct 2010 18:06

The osprey presently is a maintainance nightmare based on some conversations I had with some grunts involved.

We do not need an experimental headache for now.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shukla » 18 Oct 2010 18:23

Sri Lankan cadets train on Indian ships..

Training on Indian ships a boon to naval cadets

Officer cadets of the Sri Lanka Navy have no chance to go on a big ship for that essential training. However, the arrival of ‘Tarangini’ provided the chance for 25 midshipmen of the Sri Lanka Navy to have that training in the western seas of Colombo. The opportunity was provided to them when four Indian naval ships, INS “Tir”, INS “Shardul”, INS “Tarangini” and ICGS “Varuna” of the Indian Naval 1st Training Squadron, arrived in Sri Lanka on October 9, on a goodwill visit.

INS “Tir”, INS “Shardul” and ICGS “Varuna” arrived at the Port of Trincomalee while INS “Tarangini” arrived at the Port of Colombo. They were ceremonially welcomed in accordance with naval traditions. While ‘Tarangini’ provided training in the Western seas the other three Indian Naval Training Ships with SLN officer trainees on board commenced sailing from the Port of Trincomalee to reach Colombo on October 12. Whilst sailing between Trincomalee and Colombo, the SLN officer trainees had a practical training on a wide range of subjects -seamanship, communication, coastal navigation, life saving, replenishment at sea, fire fighting, damage control and anchoring.


Protecting the shores of the country from drug traffickers, monitoring and providing security for the boats going out to sea for fishing and to protect maritime resources are the foremost challenges before the Sri Lanka Navy. To do all these things we have need of trained Naval officers”, he added.

The Navy Commander also said that the good relationship the Navies of Sri Lanka and India maintain at present have been of mutually of benefit. “Through these type of training programs we invest for the future. The relationship that developed during this joint Naval training will help maintain bilateral relationship between the two countries”, he added.


“The training reflects the goodwill, friendly relationships and mutual co-operation that exist between the two friendly Navies”, he added. Commanding Officers of the visiting Indian Naval ships, Captain Sanjeev Issar, Commander AN Promod and Commander Manish Sain called on the Commander of the Sri Lanka Navy Vice Admiral Thisara Samarasinghe at the Naval Headquarters in Colombo. They were accompanied by Defence Adviser to the Indian High Commission in Sri Lanka Captain Sumeet Kappor.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 18 Oct 2010 21:52

Philip wrote:Tx.Juggi for the pics and link,.From these,it appears that the EH-101 is te best option for the IN,since we are acquiring the same helo for the VVIP sqd. role.The neat manner in which the radar is stowed is abig improvement upon the installation on the Sea King.The Osprey,is fine for larger US carriers and may be too large for our carriers,present,building and future.If we can add to the EH-101 the Chetak UAV beind c-developed with Israel,the two should give us a considerable surveillance capability for our surface fleet from frigate sized vessels to carriers.


It does not make any sense to buy a helicopter that can be carried by any IN vessels except the aircraft carriers. We should go for something like S 70 / S 90 / NH 90, something that will fit in the hangars of our surface ships.

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 19 Oct 2010 10:09

Kersi,we will be operating 3 carriers in addition to the large DDGs and perhaps even larger surface vessels of cruiser class in the future.These carriers will require at least 24 heavy ASW/multi-role helos.The much smaller Talwar class frigates operate with KA-28s/31s,while the G/B and Delhi class can operate Sea Kings.The Talwars cannot carry NH-90s and Sea King class large ASW helos.The IN finds no problem in operating two clases of ASW/multi-role helos apart from Chetaks and a few Dhruvs.Moreover,the EH-101s have better range,endurance and capabilities than the NH-90s/Sea Kings and will be able to extend the ASW perimeter of the carrier task force substantially.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Oct 2010 10:24

all in good time I think - its a low volume item whose production line will not be too blocked should we want it. IN seems more inclined to E2 :D
E2 is a far superior platform to any helicopter AEW.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 19 Oct 2010 10:48

The Hawkeye's cannot takeoff from any of the IN carriers being acquired.The Gorky/Vik and IAC-1 are STOBAR carriers.This leave us with just two options,EH-101s and UAVs.A combination which would serve us well.

Here's a very interesting report on the UK's defence budget culling,which will have a drastic effect upon the RNs carriers and carrier borne aircraft.While the two new carriers have been spared,one will carry NO aircraft at all(!) abd be pensioned off after just thre eyears! The Harriers will all be pensioned off at an early age in favour of saving the RAF's Tornados.The IN should take a careful look at Britain's disposals and could pick up some of the best ever deals if we play our cards right and bargain like Byzantines!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -jets.html

Navy aircraft carrier will be sold after three years - and never carry jets
Last edited by Gerard on 20 Oct 2010 05:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: copyright

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Christopher Sidor » 19 Oct 2010 13:40

Philip wrote:Key decisions:
....
• The Navy’s fleet of warships will drop from 24 to 19 and it will lose 4,000 personnel. Harrier jump-jets will be scrapped next year but no F35 Joint Strike Fighters will be available to replace them until 2020.
....
....
On Tuesday, the Prime Minister will outline a timetable under which Britain’s one fully operational aircraft carrier, HMS Ark Royal, is immediately retired. The Navy’s other carrier, HMS Illustrious, will continue to function as a helicopter platform stripped of jets before retiring in 2014.

The first of the new carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth, will enter service in 2016, configured to carry helicopters, not jets. The second new carrier, HMS Prince of Wales, will arrive in 2019. At that point, HMS Queen Elizabeth will be put into “extended readiness”, effectively mothballed indefinitely.

Government sources indicated that the Queen Elizabeth was unlikely to return to service after that, and could well be sold to another country to recoup some of the cost of building it. “There are no plans for it after 2019 and it could well be sold. No one wanted the second carrier but we had no choice,” said one source. “No one is pretending this is an ideal situation, but this is what we were left with.”

A senior defence source added: “This is not a perfect set of circumstances. There is no political benefit for us but it is the right thing for the country. It would have been more expensive to cancel than build the aircraft carrier.”

Further angering Navy chiefs, the defence review will confirm that Harrier jump-jets will be abandoned next year but the RAF’s Tornado will be spared to operate in Afghanistan.



What this is basically telling us is that UK will not be able to field any Aircraft carriers. A helicopter based AC's? Whom are they kidding? A helicopter based AC might be useful to Japan and Korea, which face the Chinese Submarine threat, but to UK?

And it seems like Queen Elizabeth, might eventually come into IN, post 2019. But by that time, India would have IAC-1/IAC-2/Vikramaditya. The funny thing is INS Viraat is going out of service in 2019-20. Its recent extensive and expensive retro fits have enabled this very old horse to serve till that time. But the expected retirement of INS Viraat is going to coincide with the moth-balling of RNS QE. Hmmm. Very convenient I would say. :twisted:

However by the same timeline India would have demonstrated a capability to build its own ACs. Why would we buy a British AC which was designed in 2000-3?

Also if you read between the lines, post 2015, Britain will unlike be able to field a force comparable to the one it had in 2000-5. Does this imply that Britian will undergo a significant economic decline out of which it will not be able to recover?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Willy » 19 Oct 2010 14:52

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11570593


We should pick up the Harriers as the Virat can still sail for a few years more.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 19 Oct 2010 15:09

Not without sending the RFP to all the aricraft builders for second hand jumpjets. Only then should we go for a single vendor deal.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Oct 2010 15:21

if the reports be true RN will cease to exist as a sea control navy - bringing to an end hundreds of years of proud history nelson, drake(though he was more of a consultant pirate), the hunt for bismark, raid on taranto, running off with tail between legs to maldives from trincomalee when IJN came calling, repulse & prince of wales -vs- 80 IJN bombers, anti piracy in the caribbean and off north africa, U-boat war, the murmansk convoys, gunther prien getting into scapa flow in the orkney isles, falklands war, bismark vs hood, jutland, the first metal deck aircraft carriers, the swordfish torpedo bomber, spanish armada, the 100 gun sailing ship....RN has been in the center of many a jolly old legend and sea yarn.

all that will be left are proud memories and the fleet of Astute SSNs in sea denial and probably 2-3 vanguard SSBNs...skulking around forlornly in the south atlantic waiting for the day the world ends. though they have rejected the proposal now, I see joint patrols and joint nuclear C3I between UK and France to stretch the budget and allow reduction in SSBN numbers...in a decades time.

France will have a more powerful surface navy, Italy/Spain/Germany/Netherland almost equal, South Korea/Japan/India/China far more powerful surface assets. and Russia too if she begins rebuilding with modern hulls.

the sun is well and truly setting on pax brittanica. its the rise of a militant new race, a new order called Pax Indica.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Willy » 19 Oct 2010 15:59

Pratyush wrote:Not without sending the RFP to all the aricraft builders for second hand jumpjets. Only then should we go for a single vendor deal.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby koti » 19 Oct 2010 17:04

Are there any chances that we might actually opt for V-22 for areal refueling and AWACS role from our AC's .

I believe both IAC-I and INS Vikramaditya will be able to accommodate this and it can give real teeth to the KUBs.
The only spoiler I guess will be the cost. It almost costs as much as EF Typhoon.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SureshP » 19 Oct 2010 17:20

deleted.
Last edited by Rahul M on 20 Oct 2010 02:30, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: this is in Indian naval discussion thread because ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Oct 2010 17:21

cost is fine - given the low number we need. but what is the reliability. USMC units can host a crew of vendor reps but can the IN go to war depending on such guests onboard the carrier ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nrshah » 19 Oct 2010 17:43

Guys, with all news coming regarding the no of CBG we plan to have, 3 as per reports while some speculation also goes on to 5...I was thinking whether we have enough surface fleet to accompany Aircraft carriers? If all surface fleet becomes part of CBG, practically we will have only 3/4 fleet for action.

While i believe success of naval operations in 1971 can be attributed to no of smaller fleets that provides us flexibility, area coverage, diversionary means, no of options which combined with some very audacious planning gave us great results. With almost entire fleet centered around 3 /5 carriers we will not have that many options to cover various theaters of war. What balance will be left will be old and aged ships which might not be able to stand on its own.

Unkil has luxury of huge fleet and hence luxury of having a large no of fleet remaining at its door even after providing adequate escorts to its carriers... But do we have the same level of fleet?

The potent fleet comprise of 10 DDG (incl Project 15B) and 19 frigates (3 bramhaputra, 6 talwars, 3 shivalik and 7 project 17A)..
Assuming 3 DDG and 4 Frigates per carrier, 9 DDG and 12 frigates are required. That leaves us with 1 DDG + 5 old kashins and 7 frigates with 3 godavaris...(3 Nilgiri will be written off by then)

Is this a good equation? The scenario is even worst in case of submarines

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 19 Oct 2010 17:52

France Looks to Expand Ties with India
Daily News & Analysis
France Looks to Expand Ties with India
Published: Tuesday, Oct 19, 2010, 0:56 IST
By Suman Sharma | Place: New Delhi | Agency: DNA

In what could be seen as an expanding strategic partnership between the two nations, French Navy’s nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle will come to India for the first time to participate in a joint exercise, ‘Varuna’, in January 2011.

French Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Edouard Guillaud told reporters in New Delhi on Monday,

“We’ve been on India’s Side Strategically, but Leasing a Nuclear Submarine to it, like Russia is Doing, is a Political Decision.

We don’t have Enough of Them to Lease.


Six Conventional Submarines are already being Built by India with French Assistance and Based on French Design. We can go Even Further in our Strategic Partnership, but it Requires Political and Diplomatic Decision.”

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Oct 2010 20:33

^nrshah - a few points

> If all surface fleet becomes part of CBG, practically we will have only 3/4 fleet for action.

the CBGs themselves will be in the center of offensive action. the rear shipping lanes will be patrolled by ASW a/c and FFG/corvettes while corvettes and CG vessels will take care of inshore patrols. dont forget the CG is a small navy all by itself including it air arm do228 fitted with AMOSP EO kits and radars.
one or two helicopter ASW carrier to secure the mumbai outbound shipping lanes would be nice to have ofcourse.

> 3 DDG and 4 Frigates per carrier

thats too high a number imo unless its a beefed up CBG going in for the kill against land based air cover , in which case 2-3 carriers will form into one task force to merge their air wings. normally one would expect 1 DDG and a couple FFG plus one tanker and one P28 corvette maybe? compared to 1971, every ship in IN bristles with ASMs and every submarine is going to be firing some land attack missiles/ASM too. SSGN like akula can easily carry around 25 nirbhay SLCMs if need be. there is also air launched brahmos and nirbhay in due course. even helicopters/LRMP will be firing salvos of harpoons/exocets

there is no need for a small flotilla of missile boats to creep up close to karachi and unleash a salvo.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 19 Oct 2010 22:15

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 19 Oct 2010 23:07

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby hnair » 19 Oct 2010 23:56

<Apologies - running to Nukkad kave kamplex.>
Last edited by hnair on 20 Oct 2010 02:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 20 Oct 2010 02:32

kindly stop discussing the royal navy in this thread.
Rahul.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 20 Oct 2010 03:04

Juggi G wrote:.


Thanks for the images Juggi G, but Vayu airticles are available for direct download in PDF from official website. Please post the same wherever available:

http://www.vayuaerospace.in/images1/Ind ... Tigers.pdf


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Srivastav » 20 Oct 2010 08:15

UK slashes armed forces by 10 percent
-- The military will also immediately retire its flagship aircraft carrier, HMS Ark Royal, as the government slashes budgets.
-- Decommissioning either HMS Ocean or HMS Illustrious, two ships on which helicopters can land;
-- Cutting about 40 percent of the Army's Challenger 2 tanks and 35 percent of its heavy artillery;
-- Retiring the Hercules C-130 air transport fleet 10 years earlier than planned.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/10 ... index.html

looks like we can pick up a helicopter carrier or 2

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 20 Oct 2010 08:35

Indian - Indonesian Naval Ships Commence Coordinated Patrol
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Indian - Indonesian Naval Ships Commence Coordinated Patrol

The sixteenth cycle of coordinated patrol (CORPAT) between the Indian Navy and the Indonesian Navy, code-named Ind-Indo CORPAT is planned from Oct 20-Nov 7, 2010. The Ind-Indo CORPAT is a biannual patrol by Indian and Indonesian naval ships/aircraft along the 300 nautical miles IMBL, which started in September 2002.

The aim of the coordinated patrols is to prevent illegal fishing/poaching, illegal immigration, drug trafficking, piracy, armed robberies and other illegal activities. In addition the units undertake passage exercises during the CORPAT.

INS Sharabh (Landing Ship Tank) and Baratang along with one Dornier, of the Indian Navy, are planned to participate in the CORPAT. The Indonesian Navy will be deploying one corvette KRI Patiunus and a CASA aircraft for the CORPAT. Prior commencement of the patrol, IN and Indonesian ships will also undertake basic level sea exercises.

Opening ceremony will be in Belawan, Indonesia on Oct 21 and closing ceremony will be in Port Blair on Nov 6 and will be attended by the participating ships of both sides.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arnabh » 20 Oct 2010 09:12

INDIA - ISRAELI NEW NAVAL ACCORD
http://idrw.org/?p=919

Indian, Israeli Naval chiefs reach new accord

By admin at 20 October, 2010, 2:26 am

BY: pakobserver

Indian and Israeli naval forces have agreed to expand their area of cooperation and jointly monitor the whole region stretching from Strait of Hormuz to the Indian Ocean.

According to an Arab diplomatic source the unpublished agreement was reached during the visit of Indian Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma who just concluded his four-day visit to Israel.

Defence observers say that the new Indo-Israel naval accord is alarming not only for the regional states but also for super powers which are closely monitoring the developments in the Gulf region.

Admiral Verma, who was in Israel last week, had detailed talks with Israeli defence minister Ehud Barak, chief of staff Gabi Ashkenazi and Israeli Navy Chief Vice Admiral Eliezer Marom.

The sources told PPA correspondent that India and Israel also agreed to enhance cooperation for sharing of UAV technology, submarine-launched cruise missiles and anti-ballistic missile systems to network-centric operations, micro-satellite surveillance systems, advanced precision-guided munitions (PGMs) and third-generation night-vision devices.

Indian Navy working to develop supersonic 70-km range Israeli Barak-NG (next generation) missile defence system and MR-SAM (medium-range SAM) system, capable of detecting and destroying hostile aircraft at a range of 80-90 km.

India has recently received the three Phalcon airborne early warning radar systems (AWACS) supplied by Israel as part of a $1.1 billion USDs deal has given a big boost to India’s reconnaissance capabilities.

Israeli Navy, Vice Admiral Elizer Marom had also paid a visit to India early this year while Indian Naval ships also visited Haifa Port

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 20 Oct 2010 12:16

Massive planned SoKo naval expansion.Details in link.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/htm ... 00683.html

What is interesting from the IN's viewpoint is the increase in subs.9 U-214s totally,plus 9 more 3,000t subs in the future,post 2020.Another 15,000t amphibious ship-cum-light carrier too.In the near future,sub numbers in the Asia-Pacific region will see a dramatic increase.China will have 70+ new nuclear and conventional/AIP subs.Pak will have at least a dozen new AIP subs,with the poss. of the Chinese giving them an old nuclear boat between 2015-2020.The ASEAN nations are busy acquiring subs,Malaysia Scorpenes,Indonesia Kilos or U-214s from SoKo,Singapore,OZ and Vietnam too augmenting their inventories with Swedish and Russian subs.

The IN is going to find it very difficult to cope with the increased sub activity in the IOR as even if we take immediate decisions to buy/build new subs our numbers will not increase immediately.ASW assets will have to be augmented rapdily through other means.One possibility is to acquire the RN's light carriers like the Ark Royal being pensioned offf early in their lifespan due to budget cuts and use them as amphibious/ASW vessels,operating the early retiring Harriers and ASW Sea Kings or other newer ASW helos from them.Acquiring the Ark Royal and another similar light carrier using them for amphibious and ASW ops,will relieve the Indian yards from building the planned 4 new amphibious vessels,which will take at least a decade+ to deliver once after the design is identified which will take at least a year in deciding which design is best for the IN.Instead of 4 amphib. vessels,two can be built in the future allowing the yards to concentrate upon building IAC-2,which will arrive only by 2020.By then,we will be operating the Gorky/Vik and IAC-1,with the Viraat perhaps lasting out to the end of the decade or a little after the arrival of IAC-1.Three carriers are required apart from at least 4 amphib vessels.If at least two of these have added qualities of ASW,then it will greatly assist the IN in meeting the huge sub challenge that is looming ahead .

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shanksinha » 20 Oct 2010 16:47

July 2010, Taganrog, Russia. (Tupolev had a Bear production line, Plant Nr. 86 in Taganrog, Rostov Oblast):
Image
Image copyright Roman at russianplanes.net

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 21 Oct 2010 13:14

Is that an IN Bear sent to be be upgraded in the pic?

Apparently "60" harriers will be retired early.This is a huge number of which thye IN can obtain a goodly number so that we can keep the Viraat soldiering on until 2020,plus use them in support of amphibious operations-as most of them as RAF GR versions which were used by the flat tops for operations in the two Gulf Wars,Afghanistan,etc.This can very easily be done-augmenting our amphibious capability by buying the soon to be retired Ark Royal,the Invincible class light Harrier-carrier,which is in good shapoe.See how well we've used ex-RN carriers in the past,Vikrant and Viraat,picking them up for a song and extending their lifespan way beyond their shelf-life dates.Since there is a requirement for 4 amphibious vessels,picking up the Ark Royal would be an even better option than the Trenton buy as it is a far younger vessel.As I also mentioned earlier,the carrier operating multi-role ASW helos like the Merlin AW-101 or NH-90s, can be used to meet the looming sub threat from China,etc.Se how Japan is also boosting up its sub fleet to 22 from 16 in this report.The IN needs at least 32-36 subs,both nuclear and conbventional (10-12 N-subs and 20-24 conventional/AIP subs).

http://www.japantoday.com/category/nati ... 22-from-16

Xcpt:
Japan to expand submarine fleet to 22 from 16
Thursday 21st October,

TOKYO —
The Defense Ministry plans to increase the Maritime Self-Defense Force’s submarines to 22 units from the current 16 as part of Japan’s basic defense program for fiscal 2011 to 2015, which is set to be compiled in December, amid increasing naval activity by China in waters near Japan, ministry and MSDF officials said Wednesday.

The ministry has determined that the MSDF should have a bigger submarine fleet to reinforce its vigilance capacity in nearby waters, especially the East China Sea, the officials said on condition of anonymity before an official decision is made on putting the plan in the appendix of the new defense policy guideline.

Japan has never had a fleet as large as 20 submarines or more since the government adopted its first defense program in 1976.

The current defense policy guideline, adopted by the cabinet in December 2004, notes that ‘‘attention must be paid’’ to developments such as moves by China, a key influence on the region’s security, pushing forward with modernizing its navy and air forces and trying to expand the scope of its naval activities.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shanksinha » 21 Oct 2010 14:03

^^^Yes its an IN Bird (note ARK=Arakkonamon the tail). I dont know if its actually there for the upgrade but they do refurbish Tu-95/142 at Taganrog.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Christopher Sidor » 21 Oct 2010 14:13

Marten wrote:GD, what is your opinion on the QE2 turning into Rani Chennamma 1?


Highly likely. In fact most likely. There were rumours that UK PM had offered PM a fresh Queen Elizabeth class carrier, so as to bring down the unit cost of each carrier. Dont know if the rumour is true, but if it is nothing came out of it. Anyway it looks like India could still lay its hand on QE2.

But why should we? We will have enough experience in the meantime, i.e. 2019, in building Aircraft Carriers. Why should we pay GBP 3 Billion, when we can enhance our own capability.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 21 Oct 2010 15:16

Chris,there's still a long way to go before IAC-1 hits water and is commissioned.Only after a couple of yars fo servcie with the carrier will we find out what needs to be improved for IAC-2.We do not know when IAC-1 will be fully operational too,therefore,if QE-1-which will arrive somewhere around the same time or shortly after IAC-1,QE-2 following closely,is available and found possessing the required capabilities that the IN requires,it will be a tempting offer-to immediately acquire a large new carrier at a discount.I can only see one other country that would be interested or pressurised to buy it and that is France.Britain and France have been having prelim talk about sharing rsponsibilities and def. forces in the future and this is perhaps the best option,for France to buy it/lease it if it cannot be sold to India.

I'm sure that after operating the two carriers,the Gorky/Vik and IAC-1,some fundamental truths about both will appear.The Gorshkov's deck is too narrow.Both are about 4-/45,000t in size and cannot launch and recover aircraft simultaneously due to the STOBAR system,and not enough aircraft and helos can be carried .Therefore,whether we buy the second British built carrier or not,the demand for a larger flat top for the IN is bound to appear and a ready made carrier available would as said,be very tempting if it comes at the right price.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 21 Oct 2010 15:33

Christopher Sidor wrote:
Marten wrote:GD, what is your opinion on the QE2 turning into Rani Chennamma 1?


But why should we? We will have enough experience in the meantime, i.e. 2019, in building Aircraft Carriers. Why should we pay GBP 3 Billion, when we can enhance our own capability.


Come on let us accept some ground realities. UK / RN has more experience in building medium sized aircraft carriers than perhaps any other country.

K

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 21 Oct 2010 15:40

I totally agree Kersi, and barring the long overdue Gorshkov,we have only operated ex-RN carriers and with great success too.

PS:Pic of S'Pore's newly launched "Archer" Swedish sub.The Asian sub inventory continues to climb.When will we place orders for the second line? Can't we make a super-fast decision as we are doing for the C-17?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 20/1/.html

Juggi G
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 21 Oct 2010 22:00

France Keen to Expand Military Ties with India
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India
French Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Edouard Guillaud in an interaction with the media in the National Capital said France was Ready to Deepen Relations with India.

A Tie-Up for Transfer of Know-How Like the one France has with Brazil was Possible only if the Two Countries Agreed, said Guillaud in reply to a question.

France is Assisting Brazil in their Project of Nuclear Powered Submarines.

Singha
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 21 Oct 2010 22:34

we need to standardize: viraat - mostly british eqpt, IAC-1 - italian/euro kit + LM2500, vikramaditya - russian/ukraine and now you want QE with its own unique kit. assuming viraat retires we'd be onlee navy in the world with 3 different carriers a true mix of east and west...and a menagerie of harriers, tejas-N and mig29k - each carrier will need its own training program due to different sizes and techs....!!

let the QE warm the roster in UK, we run with IAC-2 and IAC-3 perhaps buying up whatever techs are needed from its builder.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 21 Oct 2010 23:29

Even if it comes real cheap, there is not reason we need to acquire it. We need our people employed and build out our expertise/base of making flattops. if we buy QE then we won't be ordering an IAC-2 immediately and that will leave a whole bunch of designers, workers etc without any useful thing to do. We need to continue the IAC line even if it costs us more than the discounted cost QE is available for.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arnabh » 22 Oct 2010 06:05



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