Indian Naval Discussion

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tsarkar
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 23 Oct 2011 21:29

pgbhat wrote:Not directly related to Indian Navy but...
Indian divers found dead as rescue operation hits tragedy


Many OR post retirement or after taking premature retirement work in the lucrative ME market. Trapped underwater with oxygen running out is heartwrenching indeed.

John
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 24 Oct 2011 00:29

Pratyush wrote:Philip, not to worry, the Indian Building of the Scorpean will beat that record by a wide margin if things continue as they have been going. Unless the massive cost overruns are a nice cover for the Arihant class.

IIRC, the proposed P 75I will be budgeted at a cost of approx 1.8 Billion dollars for 6 boats. That cost is accurate will make them the most expensive SSKs ever put to sea.

PS, is it just me or ton for ton, Indian ships are actually the most expensive ships in their category.


Which ships are you referring to yes allocated costs for P-75I/P-17A are sky high but they include some SY upgrades and Scorpene are currently at billion/each and counting but that whole project is a mess.

In other hand Shivalik cost around 600 million, current estimates for P-15A are around 650-800 million and P-28 corvettes around 300 million so at least these procurements are on par with other ship in its class.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shiv » 24 Oct 2011 05:00


Bye Sir. May the wind stay behind your sails. You were a friend of BR
Adm Dawson, second from left in the 2003 Aero India BR meet
Image

Pratyush
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 24 Oct 2011 09:54

John wrote:Which ships are you referring to yes allocated costs for P-75I/P-17A are sky high but they include some SY upgrades and Scorpene are currently at billion/each and counting but that whole project is a mess.

In other hand Shivalik cost around 600 million, current estimates for P-15A are around 650-800 million and P-28 corvettes around 300 million so at least these procurements are on par with other ship in its class.



I am talking primarily of the surface fleet. I am trying to see the cost of ships from the POV of the Labour costs in India and the fact, that, the cheapness of Indian labour costs are not really reflected in the cost of the Indian surface ships.

When it comes to the SUB fleet. I have a feeling (Don't ask me to prove it). The costs are really a cover for the Indian Nuke sub programme.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby merlin » 24 Oct 2011 11:07


Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Oct 2011 14:36

As was posted earlier,Adm.Dawson was critically ill after a fall at his home in B'lore.He was an excellent CNS,taking over from the legendary Adm.Ronnie Pereira,and his passing away leaves us with very few (retd) naval officers of the IN left who originally joined the service during WW2."Stan" Dawson,as he was popuarly known,hailed originally from Burma and it was his keen acumen and vision as a young naval officer during the war,when on an exercise at Karwar,a flash of inspiration gave him the idea of one day turning this stretch of coastline into a fabulous naval base.Project Seabird was his initiative when the IN was looking for another base on the west coast to relieve the congestion at Bombay and it has now blossomed into what will be the country's premier naval base,INS Kadamba,which will also feature a naval air station.
There was a few years ago an excellent interview of Stan and is recounting of the proiject. A recent issue of the IMR also featured the second phase of the base's expansion and had an aerial view of the base and its current facilities.What was also Stan's finest hour was his responsibility as Director in charge of naval ops during '71 and the planning of the historic raid on Karachi.

Stan ,who also served as our High Commissioner to New Zealand,was always a very approachable gentleman and when I asked him if he would favour us by being our chief guest at the BR meet many years ago that Shiv has very kindly posted a pic of,he immediately said yes. He will be missed very much by his colleagues and friends.Stan,your legacy speaks for itself, you did the country proud.RIP.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby geeth » 24 Oct 2011 15:51

What was also Stan's finest hour was his responsibility as Director in charge of naval ops during '71 and the planning of the historic raid on Karachi.


I thought he was the Commaning officer of INS Nilgiri during '71 war, which was undergoing refit in Naval Dockyard Bombay.

A very fine officer, who was fully dedicated to the Service. RIP Sir!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Oct 2011 17:02

He reportedly recd. the AVSM in '71 for his efforts as mentioned.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 24 Oct 2011 18:57

Pratyush wrote:
John wrote:Which ships are you referring to yes allocated costs for P-75I/P-17A are sky high but they include some SY upgrades and Scorpene are currently at billion/each and counting but that whole project is a mess.

In other hand Shivalik cost around 600 million, current estimates for P-15A are around 650-800 million and P-28 corvettes around 300 million so at least these procurements are on par with other ship in its class.



I am talking primarily of the surface fleet. I am trying to see the cost of ships from the POV of the Labour costs in India and the fact, that, the cheapness of Indian labour costs are not really reflected in the cost of the Indian surface ships.

When it comes to the SUB fleet. I have a feeling (Don't ask me to prove it). The costs are really a cover for the Indian Nuke sub programme.

Labor costs make minimal impact on the overall price tag of a ship, most of ships' cost is electronics and equipment. Not to mention any advantage of cheap labor cost is relegated by construction delays and a bloated work force.

The price escalation for Scorpene went to procurement of items for the submarine which were not covered in the original deal as per France (from DCNS).

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 24 Oct 2011 19:39

Admiral Ronnie Pereira and Admiral Dawson were the Seaman's Admirals. Natural leaders of men, examples set by whom still inspired those serving long after they had retired.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 24 Oct 2011 20:20

geeth wrote:
What was also Stan's finest hour was his responsibility as Director in charge of naval ops during '71 and the planning of the historic raid on Karachi.


I thought he was the Commaning officer of INS Nilgiri during '71 war, which was undergoing refit in Naval Dockyard Bombay.

A very fine officer, who was fully dedicated to the Service. RIP Sir!


No sir !
INS Nilgiri was commissioned in 1972, well after the '71 war. During the 1971 war he was too senior to command a ship. He was Vice / Rear Admiral of the Western Command.

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Sanju
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Sanju » 24 Oct 2011 20:38

Admiral Dawson -Thank you for your Service to the Motherland. Rest in Peace, Sir!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 24 Oct 2011 20:58

shiv wrote:

Bye Sir. May the wind stay behind your sails. You were a friend of BR
Adm Dawson, second from left in the 2003 Aero India BR meet
Image


Shiv / Phillip,
Is the gentleman, second from the right Vice Admiral Vishwanhath (or Vadiyanath) ? I am not able to recollect his name.

There is one not-so-known feather in Adm Dawson's hat. He is responsible for the IN having a "major" surface ship with anti-shipping missiles. After the 1971 war, when Styx anti-ship missiles created havoc in PN, Adm Dawson / IN decided to arm the surface ships with these missiles. Adm Dawson with the help of Vice Admiral Vishwanhath (or Vadiyanath) converted the old INS Talwar (UK 'Whitby' class frigate) into a missile frigate. The front twin 115 mm gun turret was replaced with 3 Styx missile launchers, taken from one the the missile boats. Subsequently, the sister ship INS Trishul also got Styx missile launchers

See
http://www.google.co.in/imgres?q=indian ... wAg&zoom=1

These were the older SS-N-2A box type missile launchers. Subsequently the INS Godavari & INS Rajput series had SS-N-2C tubular launcher.

RIP Admiral Dawson

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shiv » 24 Oct 2011 21:03

My last meeting with Adm Dawson was late last year when he told me an enchanting story of how Indira Gandhi trusted him to sort out a little issue in Manipur. I had posted that on BR. My biggest regret is that I offered to digitize his gramophone records for him and was unable to follow it up. Kersi - its Rear Adm Vishwanath.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 24 Oct 2011 21:12

shiv wrote:Kersi - its Rear Adm Vishwanath.


Thanks

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 24 Oct 2011 21:13

shiv wrote:My last meeting with Adm Dawson was late last year when he told me an enchanting story of how Indira Gandhi trusted him to sort out a little issue in Manipur. I had posted that on BR.


Can you re-post it ?

K

Kersi D
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 24 Oct 2011 21:17

See also http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost ... n_Navy.jpg

Same image, slightly enlarged

K

Cosmo_R
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 24 Oct 2011 22:58

The Vicky photos ^^^: Is it a distorted camera perspective or does the 'island' look too tall compared to the length of the ship? It looks tippy compared to other carriers e.g. Viraat

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 24 Oct 2011 23:00

Sad to see him go. We wish him a fair wind and following seas.

He was a friend of my Dad's for many decades and I too knew him well.

The Navy will not see a gentleman of his caliber so easily again.

Adm Dawson, RIP Sir.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby jai » 25 Oct 2011 01:08

Hi Chetak, can you please give me your PM ? Thanks !

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 25 Oct 2011 07:38

ad by GRSE todays says second P28 will be floated out today by DefMin.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 25 Oct 2011 09:21

Singha wrote:ad by GRSE todays says second P28 will be floated out today by DefMin.


Any news of the follow up orders beyond the first 4 that have already been ordered?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 25 Oct 2011 10:25

Cosmo_R wrote:The Vicky photos ^^^: Is it a distorted camera perspective or does the 'island' look too tall compared to the length of the ship? It looks tippy compared to other carriers e.g. Viraat


Gentlemen no offence but can we please desist from using our slang while calling the names. We got such a wonderful name "INS Vikramaditya".

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby geeth » 25 Oct 2011 11:09

No sir !
INS Nilgiri was commissioned in 1972, well after the '71 war. During the 1971 war he was too senior to command a ship. He was Vice / Rear Admiral of the Western Command.


That is not entirely correct. I know for sure he was Commanding officer of INS Nilgiri. Obviously, some information is missing, which I can't recheck now.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 25 Oct 2011 15:22

Cosmo_R wrote:The Vicky photos ^^^: Is it a distorted camera perspective or does the 'island' look too tall compared to the length of the ship? It looks tippy compared to other carriers e.g. Viraat


The island is really a BIG one. :) It is practically the same as on Kuznecov which is a substantially larger ship.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 26 Oct 2011 23:36

Page count 100! Time to create a new thread?

koti
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby koti » 27 Oct 2011 07:55

Weapons test of P-8
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=4805

Speaking of which, is there any plan to integrate our NSTL light torpedo onto the platform?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby aniket » 27 Oct 2011 08:49

And the air launched Brahmos ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sombhat » 27 Oct 2011 13:39



Chako ji, could you please correct:

The ship has high-stealth features that makes her less invisible to the enemy above and below the waters.


Thanks

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 27 Oct 2011 14:08

Craig Alpert wrote:Page count 100! Time to create a new thread?

please do. put a link to this thread as well.


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