Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 12 Oct 2010 22:58

Guddu wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/Bollywood-causes-global-water-shortage/H1-Article1-611946.aspx
Bollywood causes global water shortage'

What is the prime reason for the world's water shortage? Bollywood films, according to a prominent Pakistani paper.



8.4 million liters is about 3 Olympic swimming pools.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby kenop » 12 Oct 2010 23:27

With an advanced degree in madrasa maths it makes perfect sense.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Johann » 13 Oct 2010 00:01

CRamS wrote:
Johann wrote:CRS,


In any case we should not fixate on the LeT and its SIMIan friends as Pakistan's only subversive tool against India. What is going on in the Vale of Kashmir is a good example of why bombs are not the only problem.


Wrong. The arrogance and unreasonable posture of the Sunni Muslims in the vale of Kashmir is directly related to the support they receive from TSP, and the threat India faces from TSPA/LET. Thats why I said that if you take out TSP's ability to create mischief, India and Muslims in the vale will accomodate each other. And you know that very well.


CRS,

Have you looked at how many different groups Pakistan burned through in 20 years of insurgency and terrorism in Kashmir?

They started with the communalist but non-religious JKLF. They then moved on to Jamaat-e-Islami groups, and then Deobandi ones. They made changes whenever a particular movement became too independent, or not quite adaptable enough to suit their changing needs.

The LeT like most Pakistani jihadi groups got its start in Afghanistan around the time of the Soviet withdrawal before it switched focus to Kashmir, and then the whole of India.

Don't get too hung up on individual groups with their specific sectarian/ethnic flavours and ideologies when you're dealing with Pakistan. They can always find new ones.

That also means you can't assume that their methodology will always be mass-casualty terrorism in Mumbai/Srinagar/Delhi/Bangalore/etc; what is going on in the Kashmir Valley today is more political and economic involving public disorder, economic paralysis and attacks on the legitimacy of the political system.

Military organisations require training, weapons and logistics to supply them, but ideas are different. They will sprout wherever the soil is right, and political Islam is like that. The Islamist political parties in places like Kashmir and Hyderabad date back to before partition. Pakistan does fan the flames in Kashmir, but taking out the LeT will not neutralise the Jamaat e Islam of Kashmir.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby RajeshA » 13 Oct 2010 00:07

Johann wrote:Military organisations require training, weapons and logistics to supply them, but ideas are different. They will sprout wherever the soil is right, and political Islam is like that.


Ideas can die when the cores who support such ideas collapse into chaos. Should Pakistan fall into anarchy with bloodbaths around the clock, with everybody and everybody else's throat, then the idea of political Islam can be killed in the Valley.

Another way of killing any idea is through an even more radical form of the same idea, where one controls the more radical ideologues.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Johann » 13 Oct 2010 00:21

Rajesh,

While it may be possible for the idea of Pakistan to die or mutate, political Islam is another thing. You're going to find it anywhere you have a concentration of practicing Muslims.

The variation is in how compatible it is with the existing political and legal framework. This is not a simple matter of Muslims vs. Non-Muslims - look at the number of Muslim-majority countries, nowhere near Pakistan struggling with this question.

Pakistan is just a particularly nasty answer to it. Even after it is gone, the question will remain, and we can not know what other answers might emerge.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby rsingh » 13 Oct 2010 00:24

Good article in Newsweek about Baki's taking too much carrot and no action on ground.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby ramana » 13 Oct 2010 00:25

If you study the Islamic history there were many radical sects and groups (Kharjites etc) and they all eventually collaspsed due to lack of support or resonance for Mulsims are not like that. However the recent growth of sects ann groups is a Anglo-Saxon Western supported enterprise in 19th century. This support causes those groups to thrive in the eyes of the rest of the people as they get legitimacy from that support.

The Western support to Arabic Wahabis was a way to kill the soft Naqshbandi Ottoman Turks and restore primacy to Arabs after it was lost(founding of Abbasid Caliphs in Baghdad) about one hundred years of the founding of Islam. This reversion was a geo-political goal of Anglo-Saxons to deal with the "scourge of Europe" i.e. the Turks. Read Wilfrid Blunt and other Arabists.

Blunt's plan in "Future of Islam" was Wahabis overthrow Turks and are in turn beholden to the Anglo-Saxons and thus its peace all over Middle East.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Johann » 13 Oct 2010 01:09

Ramana,

Britain like France was allied with the Ottoman Empire from the time of Catherine the Great right up until around 1900 when Germany became the strategic partner of the Ottomans.

If you read British and American accounts up until the rise of Nasser you will see that what was most consistently supported was Arab Nationalism, mostly to counter Ottoman attempts to use Pan-Islamism to strengthen their empire and weaken the British and Russians.

Please look up Abdul Hamid II, and Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, one of the fathers of modern Islamism, who conceived of Islamism as an anti-Colonial weapon, and whose goal was to protect and resurrect Muslim Empires. This strain continued in to the Muslim Brotherhood, and then in to Al Qaeda and the Global Jihad.

Arab Nationalism was more often than not led by Arab Christians often educated in Western institutions either in the region or at home. They represented the same hope that Macaulay had for European education in India, and just like India they produced people who might have been comfortable with West culture, but who also wanted independence from Western political power.

These were the Arab nationalists of Greater Syria that the moderate Hashmites linked up with during WWI, along with the Zionists to defeat the Ottoman Empire from the Hejaz all the way up to Anatolia.

The British in contrast lacked allies in Iraq, which is why they lost so badly in the beginning of the campaign. There were relatively few Christians, and they weren't as familiar with the local tribes.

It is often forgotten but Britain was one of the prime supporters of the formation of the Arab League in the 1940s, which was then as now largely secular and modernist. British policy (soon followed by the Americans) took a complete U-Turn after the Suez was nationalised by Nasser. However British policy was generally aimed at protecting modernising Arab nationalist monarchies like the Hashemites in Iraq and Jordan, or traditionalist monarchies like the UAE and Oman against Arab nationalist republics.

Saudi Arabia was an exclusively American domain from the early 1930s onwards thanks to Philby, and Britain and America had a few proxy battles in the 1950s with Saudi on one side, and Oman and the UAE on the other. America's alliance was driven by energy, the fact that it had the largest oil reserves anywhere rather than religion.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby AKalam » 13 Oct 2010 02:03

Good posts by Ramana ji and Johann ji, many people are not aware of the background of what is happening today, here is Blunt's book online:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17213/17 ... 7213-h.htm

When Historical Continuity (according to my presented hypothesis/theory in GDF Harmonization/Homogenization thread) is broken, it takes a relatively long time to heal for a large system. The Arab-Turk dynamics in breaking up of Ottoman empire (UK and France to a lesser extent took the lead in this effort and took the spoils as victors in Sykes Picot agreement) has created instability (rise of Arab Wahabi/brotherhood led political Islam), oil wealth excerbated it and possibly played an indirect role to break the continuity of the sub-continent and the Arab resurgence in Muslim consciousness continues to play a role. Relative impoverishment of the sub-continent population under the British probably also plays a large role in this continued instability I believe. But breaking of the Historical Continuity of the sub-continent also gave rise to other related instabilities as well.

So my emphasis always not to plan on breaking Historical Continuity of any large system if it can be avoided, because one never knows what hellish monster will arise from that instability.

That said Political Islam is an aberration for Muslims and their history (not that there is a glorious unblemished history), Arab resurgence is an aberration as well and Partition and two nation theory is an aberration in the history of the sub-continent. Unfortunately, aberrations, left alone, become the permanent and establish itself as the new reality till even newer realities replaces them in evolutionary process or violent convulsions.

The challenge for humanity is to find the evolutionary process of change and avoid the violent convulsions, to minimize human suffering and pain. For those few of us who sit in comfort and theorize, there are millions of others who continue to suffer from human created instabilities that affect their daily lives. We cannot change our past, but we can learn from our past and I believe, we definitely have the power to determine our future.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Oct 2010 05:13

http://criticalppp.com/archives/25777
Geo TV / Jang Group’s alliance with Sipah-e-Sahaba exposed

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby arun » 13 Oct 2010 07:20

Somewhat restores my faith in the inhabitants of our capital city New Delhi after the disgraceful episode of misplaced bonhomie for the contingent from a nation that has long history of fomenting Islamic Terrorism resulting in the death of many fellow Indians, by cheering them.

Boos and slogans return to Indo-Pak matches

The reference above is to this news item dating back to the opening ceremony of the 2010 Commonwealth Games:

Loud cheers for Pakistan at CWG opening ceremony

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby RamaY » 13 Oct 2010 07:22

^ AKalam ji

You are right about affects of breaking historical continuity but your prescription of inaction (in the fear of causing next level of disruption) is not the solution.

Left alone the entities like Arab resurgence and TNT will grow into their own systems (which is the case in some sections already) and will further damage the overall environment. We have to understand that these anomalies can learn and build their own echo systems like A_Gupta's post above.

A more permanent solution is to disable/destroy these anomalies permanently and facilitate historical power centers to regain control.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 07:35

jamwal wrote:Shiv saar,
India has lost 1000s of security personnel as well as civilians too, not to mention the economic damage. Ask anyone from J&K. Much more than 15000 Pakis are born in a single day. Indian rate of killing Pakis is not fast enough. Also Indian actions are reactive in nature. We are killing Paki invaders inside our own territory while Americans are doing it on Paki territory even when they don't face any direct threat. There is lot of difference between our half-hearted reactions and American action. How many dead Pakis we can count for 26/11 ?


Your original statement was:
Paki jihadis/army killing Indians never results in dead Pakis


I responded to that.

Could you please state that your original statement was wrong, so that I can then respond to your new list of complaints. The killing of Indians (security personnel or civilians) has led to dead Pakis. Yes or no? The list you have made is an afterthought. Let's get over with the first allegation you made.

You have now moved on and seem to be dissociating yourself from your original statement and piling on a huge list of complaints you have about India and Indians.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Johann » 13 Oct 2010 07:54

This is more or less the isnad for modern political Islam

Jamal al-Din al-Afghani->Rashid Rida->Hasan al-Banna->Maududi->Syed Qutb

Afghani and Maududi were both reacting to the abolition of the Mughal Empire and Islamic civilisation with modern, Eurocentric knowledge and values.

Hasan al-Banna who founded the Muslim Brotherhood was an Egyptian reacting to Ataturk's abolition of the Caliphate, as was Maududi. Qutb was reacting to Nasser's suppression of the the Brotherhood.

In almost every case political Islam was presented as the antidote to the de-Islamisation of public life that modernity brought. What they wanted was the reversal of the cultural, social, legal and educational effects of Western, and particularly British colonial rule, as well as the restoration of Muslim power in the world.

It is not an accident that colonial Egypt and colonial India, with some of the best educated Muslims anywhere in the colonised world, people with memories of great Muslim Empires became the centers of development for political Islam which was staunchly anti-colonial.

Well colonial rule ended, but public life remained shockingly secular, and so the great project has been to re-Islamise public life, so symbolic matters like the veil, hudood punishments, alcohol and interest become central. Of course the problem is that most people like the fruits of modernity, and can not fully go back to the 18th century, let alone the 8th, so finding a way to selectively Islamise things in a constantly changing world is the big challenge.

Qutb in the 1960s is the one who made the big leap that connected the Muslim Brotherhood to the Salafis and created a modern ideology of perpetual jihad - he wrote most of his works while in Nasser's concentration camps in the desert, and the brutality of his ideology is a partial reflection of the brutality of the camps. The Saudis have done a lot to popularise him among Muslims outside the Arab world from the 1970s onwards. Qutb's jihad is so nihilistic that I think it only appeals to large numbers in failed and failing states - post Saddam Iraq, Af-Pak, Somalia, Yemen, etc, and even in those places it will eventually bring about self-destruction unless people give it up.

However the basis of political Islam remains its refusal to accept the modern idea of removing Islam from public life and political life. I don't think that one is going away any time soon. We have to deal with it anywhere we find clusters of practicing Muslims.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Pranav » 13 Oct 2010 08:04

Johann wrote:This is more or less the isnad for modern political Islam

Jamal al-Din al-Afghani->Rashid Rida->Hasan al-Banna->Maududi->Syed Qutb



Afghani was a Freemason:


Freemasonry was first introduced to Egypt by the forces of Napoleon Bonaparte in 1798. Following the French withdrawal interest in the movement appears to have waned, although it underwent something of a revival in 1830s and 40s. Nevertheless, it was not until the 1860s, when the country opened up to increased western influence during the construction of the Suez Canal, that Freemasonry really blossomed. Several lodges were established at this time, including a National Grand Lodge that worked the craft degrees and a Grand Orient that worked the ‘high’ degrees.

In the summer of 1867 the youngest son of Pasha Mehemet Ali, Prince Abd al Halim, the legal heir to the throne, became Grand Master of the newly established District Grand Lodge of Egypt. However his appointment was short-lived, as the succession to the throne swung in favour of Pasha Ismail and Prince Halim was exiled – leaving the two Grand Lodges without a head. Consequently the British consul, Raphael Borg, took over the running of the District Grand Lodge, and in 1872 the Grand Orient of Egypt was re-organised as the National Grand Orient of Egypt (the latter was re-organised as the Federal Diet of Egyptian Freemasonry on 8 July 1876).

Al Afghani

Amid this milieu Freemasonry became eminently respectable, even fashionable, and enticed many of Egypt’s political and social elite, including Jamal al-Din al Afghani (1838-97). Afghani was a leading pan-Islamist who has been variously described as the ‘the father of Islamic modernism’ and even the ‘prototype of the modern fundamentalist’. Born in Persia and educated in Afghanistan (hence the name), Afghani traveled extensively before arriving in Egypt in 1871. He was deeply impressed by western science, and convinced that nothing but science could eliminate economic backwardness and cultural sterility. He viewed it as universal, transcending nations, cultures and religions. He argued that a rediscovery of Islam’s scientific past would not only help Muslims materially, but also strengthen the unity of Islam, and castigated educational establishments who ignored ‘the important role of scientists’:

" Those who imagine that they are saving religion by imposing a ban on some sciences and knowledge are enemies of religion."

It is only ‘philosophy that shows man the proper road and makes man understandable to man’, he averred. Yet Afghani was also a devout Muslim and hostile to Western imperialism and railed against the wanton excesses of secular materialism.

Afghani was already an initiate of an Italian lodge, when in May 1875, he was persuaded to join Kawkab al-Sharq (‘Star of the East’) Lodge, No. 1355, by the head of the District Grand Lodge of Egypt, Raphael Borg. The lodge had been founded in 1871 by some native Egyptian members of Bulwer Lodge of Cairo, No. 1068, who wanted to form a lodge that worked in Arabic for non-Europeans. Afghani quickly progressed through its ranks, and two years later, another remarkable figure joined the lodge, most probably at his behest.

http://www.freemasonrytoday.com/31/p09.php


It has been a standard tactic of western elites to try and control the opposition.
Last edited by Pranav on 13 Oct 2010 08:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Johann » 13 Oct 2010 08:09

err George Washington was a mason too. Who controlled him? The King of England?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Pranav » 13 Oct 2010 08:17

Johann wrote:err George Washington was a mason too. Who controlled him? The King of England?


Freemasonry has generally been controlled by Jewish elites. There has been some discussion of this in this thread in the GDF: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5525 . I will probably post some more information there in the next few days.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Amber G. » 13 Oct 2010 08:30

TSP gets 2 votes (out of 191) for UN Security Council...! But
Pak voted for India at UNSC

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby rohiths » 13 Oct 2010 08:46

Amber G. wrote:TSP gets 2 votes (out of 191) for UN Security Council...! But
Pak voted for India at UNSC

It is either a lie or WKK propoganda. Why will they not vote for themselves and vote for kufr yindoos ?
Or is there tactical brilliance behind the move ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby anupmisra » 13 Oct 2010 08:54

arun wrote:Somewhat restores my faith in the inhabitants of our capital city New Delhi after the disgraceful episode of misplaced bonhomie for the contingent from a nation that has long history of fomenting Islamic Terrorism resulting in the death of many fellow Indians, by cheering them.
Loud cheers for Pakistan at CWG opening ceremony


That cheering was for the "flag-snatching" incident and the impending fist fight.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby RajeshA » 13 Oct 2010 10:00

@Johann,

Could you please x-post your very informative posts on political Islam to the Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis Thread as well.

Thank you!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Philip » 13 Oct 2010 12:57

NYT is on hash or heroin if it thinks that the Pakis will come around if India engages with them in talks.The ONLY outcome of any talks with the Pakis ,which they want is for India to kneel down and hand over the Valley to them.That is the "Price of Peace" in their vocabulary.Gen.Mush-a-rat well enlightened us in his interviews.It is legitimate for a "mujahid" to wage war with India to "free" IHK (Indian Held Kashmir),as the Pakis call J&K!

Therefore,only the total destruction or dismemberment of the Paki state into smaller less troublesome entities is the answer.Nothing else.No armtwisting by Uncle Sam,who fornicates with his favourite catamite,Pak,the rent-boy of the region,should make any GOI weaken its resolve.A masterplan to dismember Pak has to be initiated right now,so that we save priceless Indian lives.We cannot sit by and expect the Paki state to change its colour,iyt will continue to create havoc within and without India,conspiring with China,our most dangerous enemy.Dismembering China's "all-weather friend" will simultaneously reduce the danger to India from the Sino-Paki rogue combine.The Yanquis can eat their words and advice.India has to go it alone to defend its interests and its very survival.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Pratyush » 13 Oct 2010 13:14

Philip

+ 1 to you

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby jamwal » 13 Oct 2010 13:30

Shiv saar,

Apologies for my somewhat confusing post. From my POV, dead Paki jihadis in India don't count as dead Pakis. These terrorists enter India to die and take as many kafirs with them as possible. If Indians are able to kill these invaders with zero causalities and minimal economic damage, then I'll say that your statement is right. But it's not exactly like that. We lose highly trained soldiers, civilians, money and resources and all we have to show for such hardships is dead bodies of a few disposable Pakis who had no other wish but to die like this. To top that, actual terrorists in Paki military, ISI, politics all go around free without any punishment.
Terrorists who actually killed people in 26/11 died (your dead Pakis), but their handlers are still alive and well (Pakis who should die). Similar examples being Kaluchak, Chattisinghpura and so on

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby hulaku » 13 Oct 2010 15:02

Pakistaniyat in Thailand

15 Pakistanis detained in south Thailand as terror suspects

Police have detained 15 Pakistanis in Thailand's insurgency-hit southern border province of Yala on suspicion of being linked to international terrorists. The group, which was reportedly in the Muslim-majority region to raise money for flood victims in Pakistan, was detained after authorities noted overseas money transfers by them to international terror suspects, reported UNI. According to police, a local bank employee reported that the Pakistan nationals had transferred money to a person abroad who is listed in the bank's official database as having links with a foreign terror group.
A police force raided the Yala My House hotel in the province yesterday where the men were staying in four rooms.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... r-suspects

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Venkarl » 13 Oct 2010 18:29

Actually...India with her assets should help her neighbors in tracking down pakistani terrorists/smugglers/mafia/extremists/any mischief mongers in those countries...the ultimate goal being an unofficial policy that "Pakis are not welcome here"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Altair » 13 Oct 2010 19:41

^^ honest thought. But is difficult to accomplish without exposing our own people who track them. Its a slippery slope which can get our people exposed on foreign soil. Its better to be on "Observer mode" unless its a plot leading to India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Rahul Shukla » 13 Oct 2010 19:46

^^^

If Mumbai part deux was being planned, would you prefer Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka to be in "observer mode" even if they had intel that could prevent another massacre?

There are ways and means of sharing intel between nations where sources of that information remain anonymous, if necessary. Intel agencies of various nations routinely cooperate with each other on such matters. With terrorism assuming trans-national persona (but sponsored in Pindi onlee), such cooperation is critical to disrupt terror ops before they come to fruition.

RAW has been playing this game for a very long time and they know how to handle/share/receive classified info. Nothing to worry about here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Rahul Shukla » 13 Oct 2010 19:57

Pakistan flood damage at $9.5 billion (Reuters)

Pakistan's recent floods inflicted $9.5 billion (5.9 billion pounds) in damage to property, crops and infrastructure, according to an Asian Development Bank and World Bank assessment, Finance Ministry officials said on Wednesday.

Aside from trying to cope with that direct damage, the government may face total recovery costs of $30 billion, Finance Ministry officials said, although they had not seen the report. If that figure of total costs proves correct, it will likely disappoint the government, which had estimated damage at $43 billion. The lower estimate will probably mean less aid.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Rahul Shukla » 13 Oct 2010 20:02

ICC ends Oval match-fixing investigation and brings no charges (Guardian UK)

Less than a month after the match took place in London on September 17, the ICC's anti-corruption unit has decided that "there was no compelling evidence to suspect individual players or support staff."

But that was the only crumb of comfort for Pakistan's beleaguered cricket board as an ICC board meeting imposed a 30-day deadline for the introduction of a raft of new measures to combat corruption or risk sanctions that could even include suspension from international cricket. Giles Clarke, the chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board, has been given wider powers as chairman of the ICC's Pakistan Task Force to ensure that Pakistan gets its house in order.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby biswas » 13 Oct 2010 20:23

Rahul Shukla wrote:Pakistan flood damage at $9.5 billion (Reuters)

Pakistan's recent floods inflicted $9.5 billion (5.9 billion pounds) in damage to property, crops and infrastructure, according to an Asian Development Bank and World Bank assessment, Finance Ministry officials said on Wednesday.

Aside from trying to cope with that direct damage, the government may face total recovery costs of $30 billion, Finance Ministry officials said, although they had not seen the report. If that figure of total costs proves correct, it will likely disappoint the government, which had estimated damage at $43 billion. The lower estimate will probably mean less aid.


This made me laugh. Is the message getting through to the Western media?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Venkarl » 13 Oct 2010 20:26

Altair wrote:^^ honest thought. But is difficult to accomplish without exposing our own people who track them. Its a slippery slope which can get our people exposed on foreign soil. Its better to be on "Observer mode" unless its a plot leading to India.


In case of plot leading to India...then India should pursue it directly in the face of its enemies...and plots leading to countries of our interest can be pursued under carpet...the 2 benefits we can get from doing this is....gaining genuine trust from countries of our interest..and eliminating Paki's influence in the countries of our interest...this even helps bringing in countries neutral to India under our influence....thats how India can become BIG BOY of this region apart from the offers its economic prowess has for these countries...

A nation ought to be proactive in certain matters if it wants to see itself as blah blah blah....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby wig » 13 Oct 2010 23:04

Pakistanis Actually Favor CIA Drone Bombings
Brian Williams' study should, well, shock and awe. Williams is a professor at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth and the author of a work, out this month, that argues that the civilians in these tribal regions actually favor the drone attacks.
Since terrorist groups took over the largely autonomous northwest regions of Pakistan, they've imposed a strict, fundamentalist law, closed all-girls schools and executed those who dared to voice their opposition. "The Taliban and al-Qaida have turned their back on the Pakistani people," Williams says. So he went to work with a Pakistani colleague, devising a survey that asked hundreds of these civilians what they thought of their lives and the CIA drone attacks.

The study concludes that 52 percent of respondents felt the strikes were accurate; 58 percent thought they did not cause anti-American sentiment; 60 percent felt militants were "damaged" by the strikes; and 70 percent thought the Pakistani military should carry out its own strikes against the terrorists. The civilians in the tribal regions "see the drones as their liberator," the study says.

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/st ... s/19666696

Venkarl
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Venkarl » 13 Oct 2010 23:08

The civilians in the tribal regions "see the drones as their liberator,"

:lol: dronullah hu akbar

Jokes apart...if this article can be viewed as a justification...why US is trying to justify its drone attacks? and to whom is it justifying?

the liberator thing still makes me laugh.. :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Hiten » 13 Oct 2010 23:15

^^^
actually this bit of revelation does manage to come out in the open on occasion, though frequency is few and far between

reported by a motorhama for a pakistani rag
The people of Waziristan are suffering a brutal kind of occupation under the Taliban and al Qaeda. Therefore, they welcome the drone attacks

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_5

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Venkarl » 13 Oct 2010 23:31

Thanks for the additional link Hiten....My laugh is at Brian Williams...in his article...he should be framing USA as The Liberator of civilian life in Tribal areas...not those lifeless drones.... :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby shaunb » 14 Oct 2010 00:42

Finally, some news on the effects of deforestation in Pakistan and its link to the recent floods. Would have loved if this was a WSJ article, but its a start.

Timber mafia and flooding in Pakistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby anupmisra » 14 Oct 2010 01:21

shaunb wrote:Finally, some news on the effects of deforestation in Pakistan and its link to the recent floods. Would have loved if this was a WSJ article, but its a start.

Timber mafia and flooding in Pakistan


Thanks for bringing this up. This problem is just not limited to the land of the pure. The paki deforestation has direct implications on Indian micro-climate as well. Here's the part that bothers me (may please some folks here):

When Pakistan gained its independence from Great Britain in 1947, 33% of the nation was covered in forest. Now that's just 4%.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Postby Mahendra » 14 Oct 2010 01:50

^
So Pakbarians ain't wild beast no more, they are urban sewer rats


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