J & K news and discussion

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jan 2011 21:14

But no, the Pandits are largely cushy sitting in Dilli and all over the rest of India

Wow...This was one thing remaining to be read on BRF( and no, this didnt come from a Paki or a Kashmiri Mullah)

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 24 Jan 2011 21:15

vina wrote: They and their hate baggage of long time baiting of the Muslims is like waving a red rag in front of a bull to any Muslim.

Aha!

The CPM folks have kept repeating this in Kolkata since I was a kid. It shows an inherent hatred and insecurity about extra sensitive behaviour of Muslims. Behind the veneer of neutrality, is this constant insecurity of the Muslim reaction to a red rag. These people are the sole arbitrators of Muslim future in India.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Jan 2011 21:15

vina wrote: GET ORGANIZED , GET SMART and start fighting your own battles and for heaven's sake, leave the BJP out. They and their hate baggage of long time baiting of the Muslims is like waving a red rag in front of a bull to any Muslim.

What a bull crap

If KPs were to fight their own battles, what is the state machinery is for? To protect separatists' interests?

Since when BJP is baiting Muslims? If not-appeasing muslims the congress way is baiting then what can one say to you? Are you suggesting that if muslims do not like something the majority to should stop following an Idea? What kind of democracy is that?

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 24 Jan 2011 21:19

vina wrote: No.. No. What I meant is in the run up to Jan 26, for the preceding 2 weeks or so, have a bash at every town of consequence around the valley and let the food and booze flow. Make now allowance for the Gilani type stiffs. Be in your face, thumb their noses at them with "this is how we are .. handle it!", with dancing wimmin and "uncovered" wimmin, men and wimmin together, throw a huge huge party, invite Pee Pee Cee, See Yen Yen and other global trash and make it a big event and get the local kids in (all the while talking in kashmiri, heck the kids in their 20s would probably have not seen a single Hindu in their lives until then.. show them that the Hindoos are not the "orrible monsters that the Gilani stiffs and Islamist nut cases make them out to be..) kind of thing , usual stuff. No one would have been able to put a spanner in that sort of stuff.

That would have been a far far better thing to do and lot easier to make friends and influence people rather than a shock troop like force of BJP nutters and their sectarian hate baggage could have accomplished.

No offense, but if I was a Kashmiri Pandit and you were saying this in front of me, I'd have broken your nose onlee saar. These are people who were killed & chased by rapid Islamist goons of Kashmir, the same people you have been shedding tears for. These people have lost their lives, their houses, their self respect, their rights & you have the balls to have fun at their expense. How I wish you were a Kashmiri Pandit yourself living in a refugee camp having kicked & chased out by your sunni neighbour, watched your house going up in flames & watching your children grow up without education & without a future with a government that give a rats ass to your tears. Ha ha ha indeed.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 24 Jan 2011 21:20

The one thing which this whole yatra has brought into prominence is the KPs and their treatment by the govts all through these years.

Oh yes, it has also brought out Indians who say

But no, the Pandits are largely cushy sitting in Dilli and all over the rest of India

The yatra is bringing all these out in the open. In the long run, I see a lot of benefit to India from this "transparency".
Finally the colonial shackles are being brought out in the open. Whether we will be able to remove them is a different question altogether.

munna · Post by **munna** » 24 Jan 2011 21:26

Kudos to all those who brought the "back stabbing channel" talks to front page! Next battle is to fight the summer sell-out bonanza to be announced by quislings in Dilli and Srinagar. What a spirited fight by LOPs in Jammu. Hope the pulsiya chiefs of JKP understand that power is a fickle thing ....very fickle thing my friends

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jan 2011 21:27

GET ORGANIZED , GET SMART and start fighting your own battles and for heaven's sake, leave the BJP out. They and their hate baggage of long time baiting of the Muslims is like waving a red rag in front of a bull to any Muslim.

you expect a severely neglected and traumatized group of people( KPs) to single-handedly fight against the very same people of a certain community( KMs) for whose sake ( and fear) even the evil, communal, fascist, blood thirsty, lunatic national party like the BJP (led by the leader of the opposition) is held off by the entire GoI from even setting foot on J&K soil ?

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 24 Jan 2011 21:29

All this just seems like one big un-necessary circus around what is basically a non-Issue. I trusted BJP to find much more credible issues like corruption, inflation etc but NO, politics is such a filthy occupation that it always finds its way @ the head of every agenda in the nation.

The CRPF hoists the national flag @ Lal Chowk every single year , if BJP so desired then its top leadership could have joined the CRPF on Republic day morning during the flag hoisting. Why in god's name is it necessary to take a Army of thousands of people to the center of 4 month long protests and show all Bravado there. Have the BJP top brass no brains at all.

The nation is absolutly not afraid of seperatists but also realizes that these anti-national elements have the ability to rally thousands of mobsters of their own at the drop of a hat as a part of an organized Pak sponsored crime syndicate, the seperatists function like a Cartel and top leaders of opposition are expected to grasp this. Now if a small group of these anti-national elements (say about 50-100 people) come out and start throwing stones during the hoisting then the whole situation can turn into a violent bloodbath in minutes.

Will the BJP and their thousands of supporters take responsibility for that, no, they will not. They will just sit in delhi and blame the state Govt. for not handling the situation and controlling the mobsters.

Who will be the one to suffer in all this, it'll be the children who went to school in biting cold to complete their school course for their exams in March, it's be the hundreads of Kashmiri's who need daily medical attention and cannot afford bandhs, it'll be the innocent children who were shot by stary bullets during the protests. In the right place , it only takes a matchstick to light a forest fire and burn down everything. There are many ways to hoist the flag peacefully and many places to do it in Kashmir too but taking an army of people , shouting in the streets and after gathering so much controvery over the past fortnight is easily the worst way to do it.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jan 2011 21:33

The CRPF hoists the national flag @ Lal Chowk every single year , if BJP so desired then its top leadership could have joined the CRPF on Republic day morning during the flag hoisting. Why in god's name is it necessary to take a Army of thousands of people to the center of 4 month long protests and show all Bravado there. Have the BJP top brass no brains at all.

Sirji, maybe you joined in late but the present govt under OA had stopped hoisting of the tricolour at Lal Chowk from last year citing "security concerns"

You could have expected for "beautiful things" to happen in the days to come but atleast the yatra threw a spanner in those works and OA has been forced to allow the CRPF to hoist the flag this year again just to beat the BJP to it...SDad that it takes all this hoo-haa to stop open traitorous behavior from a elected CM...

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 24 Jan 2011 21:35

Nihat wrote:All this just seems like one big un-necessary circus around what is basically a non-Issue. I trusted BJP to find much more credible issues like corruption, inflation etc but NO, politics is such a filthy occupation that it always finds its way @ the head of every agenda in the nation.

The CRPF hoists the national flag @ Lal Chowk every single year , if BJP so desired then its top leadership could have joined the CRPF on Republic day morning during the flag hoisting. Why in god's name is it necessary to take a Army of thousands of people to the center of 4 month long protests and show all Bravado there. Have the BJP top brass no brains at all.

The nation is absolutly not afraid of seperatists but also realizes that these anti-national elements have the ability to rally thousands of mobsters of their own at the drop of a hat as a part of an organized Pak sponsored crime syndicate, the seperatists function like a Cartel and top leaders of opposition are expected to grasp this. Now if a small group of these anti-national elements (say about 50-100 people) come out and start throwing stones during the hoisting then the whole situation can turn into a violent bloodbath in minutes.

Will the BJP and their thousands of supporters take responsibility for that, no, they will not. They will just sit in delhi and blame the state Govt. for not handling the situation and controlling the mobsters.

Who will be the one to suffer in all this, it'll be the children who went to school in biting cold to complete their school course for their exams in March, it's be the hundreads of Kashmiri's who need daily medical attention and cannot afford bandhs, it'll be the innocent children who were shot by stary bullets during the protests. In the right place , it only takes a matchstick to light a forest fire and burn down everything. There are many ways to hoist the flag peacefully and many places to do it in Kashmir too but taking an army of people , shouting in the streets and after gathering so much controvery over the past fortnight is easily the worst way to do it.

wah wah nihat mian.

This is what you said few months back.

Nihat
Post subject: Re: J & K news and discussion
Posted: 04 Nov 2010 03:27 am

Replies: 2538
Views: 96702

very proud of the BJP activists who heckled that seperatist in jammu. The people of kashmir who pelt stones must realize just how hated they are in thier own state.

munna · Post by **munna** » 24 Jan 2011 21:36

Nihat wrote:The CRPF hoists the national flag @ Lal Chowk every single year , if BJP so desired then its top leadership could have joined the CRPF on Republic day morning during the flag hoisting. Why in god's name is it necessary to take a Army of thousands of people to the center of 4 month long protests and show all Bravado there. Have the BJP top brass no brains at all.

You sir are ignorant or worse still are lying to promote a certain line of thought. I am challenging and calling out your obfuscation openly, after this your rest of post is big pile of junk with no legs to stand upon. Kindly deliver your wise counsel to all the sympathetic bleeding hearts of Dilli commentariat.

First time in 19 years flag not hoisted at Lal Chowk

SRINAGAR: The national flag was not hoisted by security forces in Lal Chowk, the nerve centre of Srinagar, on the Republic Day today for the first time in 19 years.

The usual hustle and bustle was not there in the heart of the city as people preferred to remain indoors in view of strike call given by separatists as well as tight security measures taken by the authorities.

The tricolour used to be unfurled on the clock tower, popularly known here as "Ghantaghar" in Lal Chowk on the Republic Day and Independence Day since 1991.

The first time the flag was hoisted at the clock tower was in 1991 when then BJP President Murli Manohar Joshi did it amidst rocket attacks by militants.

No official reason was cited for not hoisting the national flag in Lal Chowk, which recently saw a 22-hour terrorist siege.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 24 Jan 2011 21:38

Sorry to say,but so far what the Ekta yatra has done is bought out the true seculars on BRF. Dhanya hein desh mera.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 21:44

Vina, In interests of general forum good atmospherics, I request you to stop calling people names like nutters etc. etc. Since you have already done that a number of times you can consider each of them a warning. So next one invites a ban. Thanks for understanding.

Also folks no calling names. Try to be civil or same applies to all.

Its stressful times and no need to add to it with polemics and name-calling.
Thanks,
ramana

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 21:45

Kanson, You will get called names!

Sachin, The last time the doyen of the family (JLN) was there India lost Pakistan, POK in 1948 and Aksai Chin in 1962. They have a grand stance of grand standing and losing the land and people. Yes Mrs. G fought and supported the creation of Bangla Desh, but she gave a greater evil in the Emergency of 1975-1977.

MMS is acting like its an Emergency without declaring one. All those police and railway guys colluding with powers are guilty of abuse of pwers just as the ones in Emergency period who were let off by the Shah commission in interests of the nation.

So short answer is INC can repress Indians and do little for the Indian nation except sellout.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Jan 2011 21:50

sum wrote:
GET ORGANIZED , GET SMART and start fighting your own battles and for heaven's sake, leave the BJP out. They and their hate baggage of long time baiting of the Muslims is like waving a red rag in front of a bull to any Muslim.
you expect a severely neglected and traumatized group of people( KPs) to single-handedly fight against the very same people of a certain community( KMs) for whose sake ( and fear) even the evil, communal, fascist, blood thirsty, lunatic national party like the BJP (led by the leader of the opposition) is held off by the entire GoI from even setting foot on J&K soil ?

Ah but they are not neglected and traumatized. They are "cushy and sitting in Delhi".

And the BJP comes with "hate baggage". The goons who drove the Pandits out of Kashmir and who hoist Paki flags do not come with any baggage.

If you don't believe this you are a muslim hating communal hindutvawadi with associated baggage.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jan 2011 21:53

praksam wrote:Sorry to say,but so far what the Ekta yatra has done is bought out the true seculars on BRF. Dhanya hein desh mera.

+1

nkumar · Post by **nkumar** » 24 Jan 2011 21:56

Since folks are now discussing the "cushy" lives KPs are living, let us step back and see what happened to them and the so called cushy lives they are living. Sure, there are bright KPs who most people must have come across at some point but by and large the state apparatus cares two hoots for them.

I think everyone needs to see these videos of how they were driven out and their so called cushy lives.

Folks on twitter, please tweet them widely please. We need to create more awareness about KPs, all the while we only see the agenda of bigoted Islamists and their backers in GOI from 24/7 studios.

How are these people supposed to get organized and go back without political backing and state protection? Forget about going back, even the Amarnath yatra and temporary restrooms for the yatris lead to the cries of "demographic change" !!

[youtube]FQ4JCGeQqqQ&feature=related[/youtube]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 22:00

Indian Kashmiri Pandits living cushy lives is same libel as European Jewish refugees were living it up in Anglo-Saxon West while Hitler was persecuting/Holocausting them in Occupied Europe.

Really Gobbellsian construct.

nkumar · Post by **nkumar** » 24 Jan 2011 22:08

Also check this video where KPs organized at Jantar Mantar in Delhi to demand voting rights. By what the guy in video says, it seems that around 500-1000 people in Jammu also organized but they were lathi-charged. Did someone talk about state protection to KPs

. They also have to fill out some kind of shitty cumbersome migration form to vote.

[youtube]L0J3hq9V0xo&feature=related[/youtube]

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Jan 2011 22:12

BJP's Lal Chowk plans not in national interest

But why can't the BJP have the right to hoist the flag at Lal Chowk?

I have a question. What is Republic Day? It is to reinforce the message that we are a secular democracy. But by targeting Srinagar are you not antagonising the minority? Why instead can't you send a message that you show willingness to co-operate and accommodate their aspirations?

I am completely bewildered by this one. The CPI feels Hindus are going to be antagonised by the Lal Chowk flag. I doubt that this is true, else the function at Rajpath would have been cancelled as well.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:12

There are certain things which are non negotiable by virtue of being an Indian.
One of them is to fly the national flag. It is our birthright it comes with our citizenship.
particularly on days like 26 jan and 15 aug. It is entirely voluntary.

For me it is very clear if someone wants to fly the flag- I am happy about it. It does not matter if kashmir muslims or hindus or tamilian or upite or bihari punajbi etc does it. All are Indians. It does not matter where they fly the flag as long as it is not private property. On 26 jan I can go to a park or a vacant govt land or a place where fly was unfurled for many years as in lal chowk. it is public place and flying of flag is allowed.

People who refuse others to unfurl the flag can be called anti nationals because they prevent the fundamental rights of the Indians who want to do it.
Now some want to oppose it. They are the separatists/terrorists. By the very definition they hate Indians, refuse to call themselves Indians. IOW they are anti Indians.

Violence-
My birthright as well an any Indian is to fly the flag proudly without fear or favor. It is undeniable right. No one can remove it not even the supreme court.(I may be a thief, rapist, fanatic....... as long as I am an Indian and respect it)

If violence occurs it is the responsibility of the state which maintains law and order to help fly the flag. IOW who oppose the flag are anti nationals and have to be put behind the bars.
Here politics should not occur.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:13

I have deep anguish as a fellow Indian that some posters equate politics to the flying of national flag. It is very shameful that terms divisive politics, hate, communal etc are freely bandied about.

Bring in article 370, Palestinian issue, flying flags in tamil nadu, UP punjab etc. Kashmir pandits it merely obfuscates the simple issue of flying the flag.

Kashmir pandits muslims bihari kanndaiga tamilian mallu maratha Sikhs etc are all Indians and can fly the flag anywhere..
I reiterate once again flying the national flag is the fundamental right esp on jan 26 or 15 aug.

Why create divisions here.
Shame on all the posters.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 24 Jan 2011 22:13

vina wrote: Be in your face, thumb their noses at them with "this is how we are .. handle it!", with dancing wimmin and "uncovered" wimmin, men and wimmin together, throw a huge huge party, invite Pee Pee Cee, See Yen Yen and other global trash and make it a big event and get the local kids in ...

This is unbelievable ... .... in front of the same Jihadists.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:14

All in all,
In matters of flag flying I don’t have to molly coddle separatists. I want to fly the flag and I do it. If violence occurs Govt must take steps to prevent it. Reason only anti Indians want violence, not proud Indians. Govt is bounden to protect Indians who follow Indian constitution. They are given some rights incluiding flying the flag, in return the govt takes taxes frames rules and functions to create a cohesive society. It protects the Indians who believe in our constitution but not anti nationals.

edited- Ramana

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 22:17

krishna, Whats with the bold and blue colors? No need for theatrics. Stick to the message.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Jan 2011 22:18

vina wrote: Open up the discourse, get the party going, get the buzz going, get the kashmiri youth into the tent. You need to use your brains for a change. For a lot of the folks here can't seem to go beyond using coercion (for a person with a hammer,every problem seems to be a nail ). And for fighting the Gilani type nutcases, you don't roll out the nutcases of a different color, namely the rotund buffoon and his shock troops , but roll out Amir Khan and Katrina Kaif and the rest of the pack instead and the fun and frolic!

Oh yeah right, these nut balls demanding Azaadi ad nauseum will fall in line at the sight of Katrina? Give me a f%^*ing break. And why that pampered clown Amir Khan, who issued the ISI talking pooints that they were not ivolved in 26/11.

No, these Kashmiri separatist dogs and their leaders are a pampered lot, pamered by Indian govt, pampered by USA, and above all imbued with the poison TSP has spread. Time for this soft BS from India only invides ridicule and contempt. So hard options need to be on the table, and the nation must have the gumption and muscle to stand up to the consequences.

munna · Post by **munna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:18

^^Dear friends do not lose equanimity. A poster has made his statement and factuality of it is for all to see. Make a point to the audience not at him.

More significantly the leaders of opposition are being transported to Madhopur and the Anurag Thakur flank has reached Pathankot today! Things are not as tame as I thought they would turn out to be Mrs Swaraj and Mr Jaitley have really dished it back in equal measure in Jammu. Jai Hind

jambudvipa · Post by **jambudvipa** » 24 Jan 2011 22:18

Marten saar,kudos for saying what is in everbodys mind.

It is an educational experience to see the self flagellating secular fanatics and commie trolls expound on the the benefits of wining and dining the traitorous scum in the valley while Kashmiri pandits lead a miserable existence in urban slums.

People like Vina who make light of the suffering of fellow Indians should be sent on an all expenses paid tour to our friendly neighbourhood Afghanistan to expreicne their love first hand.No loss to India.
For the commie trolls on the forum,they are in right footsteps of their forefathers who sold their country to whatever dead cadaver was the flavor of the season(mao,stalin,lenin etc).treson is second nature to them.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2011 22:24

Well the fascists of Kashmir valley and their supporters outside the state and at the centre have won the first round. What they have proved is that

(1) if Islamic separatists can create mob violence/riots then the rashtra will give weight to it and not do anything that the rashtra thinks will provoke Muslim sentiments
(2) this in turn means that organized violence from specific community and religious background is an extra-constitutional means now accepted by the governement as a legitimate instrument
(3) Constitutional rights in the rest of India does not apply to Kashmir and hence the rashtra de-factor recognizes the particular state's authority as heading towards an independent nation

The supporters have shown that :

(a) "injustice" should be treated as a "communal issue" - the claim here on this forum, that justice for Kashmiri Pundits is a "Kashmir Pundit" issue, and only they have the right to shout or move about it.
(b) "community" sentiments should be given greater importance than standard aspects of the modern rashtra.

This is what it comes to when you accept only a community's rights to supercede all other rights of all others.

Good going : so what prevents using all of the above above logic to claim the rashtra for any other community then - other than the Islamic? If "Kashmir Muslim" sentiment is so pricey that it can move an entire rashtryia machinery to humiliate its own traditional symbols - whose side is the rashtra working on? Does it then have any right to prevent other "community" based claims to run supreme? Does it then have "legitimacy" itself? If it only allows the Islamic claims to overrule itself and no other community/religion - then it should be called and Islamic rashtra after all!

This is what Srinagar has reduced it all to!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jan 2011 22:27

Pranav wrote:
vina wrote: This is unbelievable ... if your daughter had been raped and had her breasts cut off by Jihadists, would you be asking her to dance naked in front of the same Jihadists.

NO , dont be so cruel, he is asking KPs to report to police as law abiding person and tell them the location of Jihadis celebrating , dancing after the rape event and complaint against the loud noices. This is how few expect to behave in case of such personal tragedy. They say if you kick the dirt ,even the dirty soil even the dust try to get your head as punsihement but glad tiddiing sir, we have many Indians proving the dust wrong .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 22:27

The real key is flag hoisting on the clock tower/Ghanta Ghar in Lal Chowk. That is the symbol and not the whole chowk or square.

So saying flag will be raised by CRPF in Lal Chowk is half a lie as long as its not on the clock tower.

Wonder if spiderman type person will suddenly raise the flag even for few minutes on 26 January, and Omar Abdullah shows his Pakiness in bringing it down? Or let it stay to reduce damage to his credibilty.

Right now its zero.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:28

Vina,somnath, menon and others who are against flying the national flag.
( I had asked this question to Vina but was glossed over)
I am asking you a simple question.
Please as an Indian do you want to unfurl the national flag where it was taken over by separatists under our very land irrespective of political party.
1) Yes I want to fly the national flag
2) NO I dont want to fly the national flag.
3) No comments.

There is no choice for long winding explanation because this is a fundamental right.

I understand all of your hearts are in the right place as any other well meaning Indian. But I want to make sure to all other posters(who are against you) understand that you are representing alternative opinion only in politics but not the rights of Indians.

My apologies if I sound a bit crude.

munna · Post by **munna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:32

brihaspati wrote:This is what Srinagar has reduced it all to!

Sahastra Pranam! UPA has undertaken to chop off their own head lest they develop a head ache. It is a stupid strategy for the long term and I never thought they would got to this length to stall what was otherwise a relatively minor Yuva Morcha affair. I think BJYM guys literally stumbled upon this by sheer serendipity. Anyways all the tactics and tacticians will not be forgotten, the smart alecs should remember that 99.9999999% chance BJP will not come back to power for 100000000000 years, but what if it does? All babooz, thullas and other assorted tantri-mantri should try and be neutral to avoid becoming part of a Gulag like political repression. This is definitely getting uglier and bigger than what I thought! Funny times....

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Jan 2011 22:38

brihaspati:

I am not prepared to say one way or the other as of yet, but we need to watch out. Of course, there has been no street-level support to BJP's upholding of national honor, like what we saw for example in Tunisia recently, and to this extent, MMS can claim victory.

This much is obvious to me. MMS has assured to US, TSP, and the separatist dogs in the valley that he will show muscle against the "Saffron terrorists" and he has (the first time under his reign of power that he has every demonstrated some b@lls). Note, we haven't heard much from the vegetarian terrorist after he threatned a conflagration in "South Asia". MMS has told him to keep quiet as he takes on the "Safffron terrorists".

Now what is their end of the bargain, I mean US, TSP, and separatist dogs, is what needs to be seen. If they come down from their shrill demands for "azaadi", and sit down to talk about a reasonable compromise within the ambit of Indian constituion, I say its not only MMS or BJP, but the nation as a whole has won. On the other hand, if MMS uses this "victory" to continue down the sell out path towards joint love making with his TSP pals as US noddingly looks on, sadly, respecting forum gudilnes, I can't say anything harsher which it deserves than to say, this "victory" is the beginning of the sell out of India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2011 22:39

Bji, Munna, Please think a little beyond the news?
One can understand Omar Abduallh doing what he is doing. He has very little support in Kashmir after his "elected CM for separate Kashmir"(backed by Rahul baba) stance ended up shaking the very foundations of his throne when the stone pelters showed their jihadi backing.

What forces MMS and UPA to suppress Indian political parties rights in Indian territory on a National Day? They have used subterfuge in turning back the train, they have used force to detain BJP leaders in Srinagar.

- What else they want to do?
- Who are they trying to send a message and more improtantly
- wWat is the message?

And
- Which image is being reinforced?
- Which image is being damaged?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jan 2011 22:56

Kanson wrote:Lets leave BJP, INC, party, politics.

I couldn't understand the stand of OA & his administration. What is the reasoning of OA for not hoisting the flag? It is not only Lal chowk but other places like sopore too where the Indian flag was not hoisted last year. Doubts over the credibility of OA is never abating.

Replace reluctant Delhi with reluctant Moscow and OA with Najibullah then it will make sense. GOI/Kongress have not taken Indian public or other political parties in confidence in their dealing with foreign powers . This is the crisis of confidence in Indian political system . Congress"s repeated attempts to undermine the national institutions including national Security appratus have caused such alarm in certain section of patrioitic Indians. Blindsided by GOI , they are forced to watch from the sideline MMS selling the country piece by piece under the garb of peace. IMHO,when Army Cheif feels compelled to make public statement , then something is really rooton about UPAWalas who "NN" to go back home.

munna · Post by **munna** » 24 Jan 2011 22:57

ramana wrote:What forces MMS and UPA to suppress Indian political parties rights in Indian territory on a National Day? They have used subterfuge in turning back the train, they have used force to detain BJP leaders in Srinagar.

Just a slight correction they detained LoPs (LoPs = Leader of Opposition, it is the official abbreviation used for them) in Jammu! I think as far as motive force goes behind MMS and UPA's calisthenics there can be plethora of factors but all of them indicate a presence or deference to a major external player. The presence of an external player is no more a secret in the corridors of Dilli and this seems to be the reason why BJP has been unable to muster support from big businesses on this count despite being friendlier to them.

- What else they want to do?
- Who are they trying to send a message and more improtantly
- wWat is the message?

Clearly there is a move to bring about structural changes in form and texture of rashtra to make it impossible to have a regime change. One of the pre-requisites for this is to bring outside influence in domestic issues and use it as a balancer to counteract any domestic opposition. This aim was achieved by using Godhra, Kandhamal and then Bengaluru in recent past. Now further to that there is a move to actually water down the country's territorial realms in order to make it even more prone to external influences. Case in point with greatly reduced troops presence in J&K the only guarantor of Indian sovereignity will not be our army but another country!
The message is loud and clear. We shall keep the uncalibrated and autonomous political players under check no matter what and you keep us in power.

And
- Which image is being reinforced?
- Which image is being damaged?

The image of "free for all" nation is being reinforced for external players. This is a message that says we can be your next Korea or Japan. The image of the India of 1970-1990s (strong nation state) ie being demolished. The idea is to suffuse and confuse the national realms to a degree so much so nothing gets done without external "observors" ruling the roost.

vilayat · Post by **vilayat** » 24 Jan 2011 22:59

Its about price paid by UK to USSR to eliminate LBS and bring in IG as PM of ROI...

What is common between Nehru dynasty and interests of both USSR and UK-USA?

If as call nehru as set A, USSR as set B and West as set C, then A (intersection)B(intersection)C is the domain to think..

What is the Least common factor in the interests of both soviet camp and western camp? I am not looking for oft repeated reason that "world wants India licking their feet onlee".. This is consequence of the "wish" of that intersection..

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 24 Jan 2011 23:00

And
- Which image is being reinforced?
- Which image is being damaged?

This is the image being reinforced

what a fool we are

India won’t let nationalists raise flag in Kashmir

NEW DELHI: The Indian government foiled a nationalist party’s plan Monday to commemorate a holiday by raising the country’s flag in the heart of Kashmir, home to a separatist insurgency.

Leaders from the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, which is in the opposition in the national parliament, flew to Jammu in Indian-controlled Kashmir but were initially not even allowed to leave the airplane and were asked to return to New Delhi. After sitting on the tarmac for two hours, they eventually entered the terminal but will not be allowed to go anywhere else in the state, which is the only one in India with a Muslim majority.

While the Indian flag flies over government buildings in Indian-controlled Kashmir, the BJP leaders had wanted to hoist the colors in a square in Srinagar that is the frequent site of anti-India protests. Anti-India sentiment runs deep in Kashmir, where separatists groups are fighting for an independent homeland or merge with Pakistan.

The BJP ceremony was meant to commemorate Republic Day, which marks India’s adoption of a democratic constitution and falls on Jan. 26.

did not hear anything like that in POK despite rest of pakistan going down the drain.

hoisting flag is symbolic and emotive. Success would raise heckles of anti national and separatist forces and perhaps threaten the interlocutory process initiated by GOI. Don't know what compromise formula is being worked out but the yatra has put focus on all that. It would be difficult for CON party to compromise national interest hereafter at least for some time.

I would also register my disapproval of the manner in which KPs and their plight is being portrayed by some. that is not in good taste.
However response should be civilized. that is the least expected.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Jan 2011 23:02

vera_k wrote:BJP's Lal Chowk plans not in national interest

But why can't the BJP have the right to hoist the flag at Lal Chowk?

I have a question. What is Republic Day? It is to reinforce the message that we are a secular democracy. But by targeting Srinagar are you not antagonising the minority? Why instead can't you send a message that you show willingness to co-operate and accommodate their aspirations?

What minority? The only minority of any relevance here are the Kashmiri separatists who have a problem with India and everything connected to it...like the Tricolour. They need to be more than just "antagonized".