J & K news and discussion

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krisna
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by krisna »

Well, they rose by the sword and will die by it as well. Consider the point today that there are no real allies and the remaining ones like Nitish don't want to have any truck with the more extreme positions of the BJP (for instance this Ekta Yatra business). CBN left, Biju JD left, the only ones left are SS, Akalis and Nitish. Wonder how long will Nitish stick with you. So effectively Akalis and a split Shiv Sena. Good luck trying to coming back to power with those two alone. Vande Maatram I say and thank the mother for the good sense of the Indian people.
Vina,
What about your party which has given rise to many splinter parties. it was the only pan national party for many years. now it is restricted to a few states.
vina you have your points and moments but calm down.
You dont have to stick so tightly to congress. be independent and think freely.the way it appears is you have something to do with the scams going around your party. :rotfl:
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by svinayak »

Theo_Fidel wrote:

Also as long people are being divided into the 'patriotic/un-patriotic' camps, this particular issue was essentially non-existent till the BJP brought it up. So how can you now pretend that it is not a political issue. To my mind the BJP is dividing India into 'patriotic/un-patriotic' camps. You can see the turmoil on this board with members accusing each other of supporting genocide, etc.
Take it easy.
It is only since there is Pakistan in the back ground. Pak presence and the Pak flag has created this intense emotions.

Unitl then all Indians have to understand that this is 1947 again.
It is a good thing. enojoy, Jai Ho!
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by arnab »

Marten wrote:Arnab makes a drab point about the flag hoisting with non-sequitors, but I fully agree with his position on 370.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact of the matter is that each pathetic lamenter here advising all other Indians of not antagonizing the fearsome KMs that will be all worked up and riled if we raise the Indian flag on their territory.
Marten ji it is not a question of being scared by KMs (unless the objective of this exercise is to scare KMs because you believe that all KMs are unpatriotic). The problem is that such marches scare only women and children and can be used as an example of 'hegemony' or a target of opportunity.

I would leave the law and order, anti-terrorism exercise and the security of J&K to the same professionals who were doing the job 20 years ago when kashmir was burning. Getting emotional lumpens in volatile area all drunk with patriotism, which offers very little change in ground realities is not how I would go about doing things.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Airavat »

Prohibitory orders from Lakhanpur to Tunnel

As the BJP leaders were about to enter Madhopur at 11.15 pm, BJP MP Navjot Singh Sidhu along with a large number of BJP leaders and workers from Punjab tried to force their entry into Lakhanpur from Ravi bridge to receive the BJP leaders. However, they were chased away by the police and CRPF personnel. Jaitley, Swaraj and Ananth Kumar were left in Mukherjee Park at Madhopur by the Jammu Police at 11.15 pm tonight. The BJP leaders were chalking out their strategy at the park for tomorrow till late tonight.

However, police denied that the BJP leaders were arrested. They were driven out of the State in anticipation of "breach of peace''. No case has been registered against them. "You don't arrest us. You don't allow us to leave the Airport. This is not the law that I Read. Arun (Jaitley) and I are both lawyers. I practiced before Supreme Court right from 1973 onwards. You can't do this under Section 144," she tweeted.

Reliable sources said that Jaitley's son, Rohan Jaitley, who had come to visit his maternal uncle's house at Trikuta Nagar, was also trapped in the melee. Authorities have clamped prohibitory orders under Section 144 CrPC right from Lakhanpur to Jawahar tunnel to thwart the BJP's Yatra and arrest BJP and BJYM workers, who try to march towards Srinagar. Meanwhile the police detained 500 BJYM activists who were coming from Ahmedabad Gujarat via Somnath Express at Vijaypur this evening. They were kept at Jakh Community Hall and Chichi Mata Temple.

Vibodh Gupta also alleged that Police arrested a Party leader Naim Ganai along with 20 activists from Thana Mandi, at Shopian while they were on their way to Kashmir Via Mughal road to participate in the flag hoisting ceremony at Lal Chowk on Republic Day. BJP secretary, Kashmir Altaf Thakur said hundreds of activists of BJP and BJYM from different parts of the Valley will reach Lal Chowk and participate in flag hoisting ceremony on January 26 there.
Image
Last edited by Airavat on 25 Jan 2011 08:14, edited 1 time in total.
svinayak
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by svinayak »

arnab wrote: Getting emotional lumpens in volatile area all drunk with patriotism
It is a good thing to re live 1947.
Enjoy while you can. 8)
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by svinayak »

vina wrote:The riot and rath politics back in a very similar form and similar verbiage?
8)
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by RamaY »

vina wrote: Yeah, very interesting this Karma business. The entire downtown of Srinagar, overwhelming majority of which would be that of people who had not truck whatsoever that happened gets punished , while the Islamist goons and JKLF types who did the bad things are safely in PoK or in other safer areas pushing the remote control or have already got their 72s. Maybe "Karma" is not as indiscriminate and stupid as you think it is ?
You need to open your eyes and start reading other threads. Everyone knows the jennat that was created by Jinnah in Pakistan and POK. I wonder why that jila-nahi guy lives in J&K instead of moving to POK and remote-pressing his 72-balls.

Wasn't there a small matter of 100+ killed and many more wounded in firing during crowd control?
Why can't he repeat that stellar promise if/when the peace breaks in Cashmere valley next time? Why is he so worried with BJP yatra then?
Well, they rose by the sword and will die by it as well. Consider the point today that there are no real allies and the remaining ones like Nitish don't want to have any truck with the more extreme positions of the BJP (for instance this Ekta Yatra business). CBN left, Biju JD left, the only ones left are SS, Akalis and Nitish. Wonder how long will Nitish stick with you. So effectively Akalis and a split Shiv Sena. Good luck trying to coming back to power with those two alone. Vande Maatram I say and thank the mother for the good sense of the Indian people.
Are you a closet BJP supporter or what? Why are you so worried? Can you ever look at an issue from a non-partisan angle, like an Indian first?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by kvraghav »

He He.Vina,the way you describe all yatras will booze and dancing collaborates a congress approach to a yatra.Remember Sidramaiah,booze,biriyani,dance march to bellary.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by saket »

Since when has this become exclusively about BJPs politics?

The issue is very simple : BJP wants to hoist the flag - one can have different opinions on its motives.

But how can one question the right itself, and how can the govt forcibly stop the event?

I mean on Republic Day, even if Dawood Ibrahim were to cross over carrying the Indian Flag he should be allowed to hoist it (and later arrested of course).
Last edited by saket on 25 Jan 2011 08:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by somnath »

Rudradev wrote:Brave attempt, Somnathji, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is that there is nothing in that list implying any sort of "conditionality."
In my simple mind Rudradevji, any constitutional conditionality is goverened by the ability to legislate...So if an accession was done under the condition that the Indian Parliament could only legislate on matters of defence, communication etc, then it is (legally) quite appropriate to conclude that the state "agreed to accede to the Dominion of India on condition that the state retain its own constitution and autonomy in all matters except defense, currency and foreign affairs"...Let me quote something else too from the Instrument of Accession in case you have missed it..
Nothing in this Instrument shall empower the Dominion Legislature to make any law for this State authorizing the compulsory acquisition of land for any purpose, but I hereby undertake that should the Dominion for the purposes of a Dominion law which applies in this State deem it necessary to acquire any land, I will at their request acquire the land at their expense or if the land belongs to me transfer it to them on such terms as may be agreed, or, in default of agreement, determined by an arbitrator to be appointed by the Chief Justice of India.

Nothing in this Instrument shall be deemed to commit me in any way to acceptance of any future constitution of India or to fetter my discretion to enter into arrangements with the Government of India under any such future constitution.

Nothing in this Instrument affects the continuance of my sovereignty in and over this state, or, save as provided by or under this Instrument, the exercise of any powers, authority and rights now enjoyed by me as Ruler of this State or the validity of any law at present in force in this State.
Rudradev wrote:All I see is a schedule of matters in which the Dominion of India was entitled to legislate on central subjects with immediate effect... much like any of the other princely states which acceded to India was required to sign.
Are you saying all Instruments of Acession had the same schedule? any references?
Rudradev wrote:Nature of the "accession" eh? The fact is, every princely state which acceded to India before she became a Republic had to turn over certain powers to the Dominion government with immediate effect, the rest to be negotiated later in line with whatever constitution was enacted by the successor to the Dominion government in New Delhi. There was nothing unique in the interim handover of powers by the J&K government to New Delhi, and nothing "conditional" about it either.
I repeat, did all other states acceded with the same Instrument of Accession? For Kashmir, what was special? Well, an invasion, and a reference made to the UN making it a party to the matter...The Maharaja was not in a position to dictate any terms, but Sheikh Abdullah, as the popular leader then, was a legitimate player....

Now you can critcse the quality of negotiation done with Sheikh Abdullah on Art 370, and his shenanigans over the years are quite variable..But that does not take away anything from the facts of the history of the Instrument of Accessoin and Art 370...So there are no "lies" being peddled...

about the merits of the "temporary" provision still being there, well, it is like a lot of other anomalies that cant be rectified because of the force of events...The Uniform civil Code - its desired, its there in the idrective principles - but (thanks in no mean measure to politician on both sides of the divde) today it cant be implemented...Ditto with Art 370..A smarter policy is to chip away at the proviosns, which is what successive Indian governments have done...
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by RamaY »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Since when did the flag become a sign of patriotism. If anyone says that, I refuse to raise the flag for that one reason alone.
Then what is?

I am really curious to know your definition of patriotism.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Sidhant »

arnab wrote:
manju wrote:BJP workers, if coming from all over country hoist a flag in Idgah maidna of Hublic (in Karnataka) will not offend any kannadigas... If this is the case why should it cause kujli if the same happens in Kashmir?
Manju ji - maybe so. But if BJP workers from the north came on a 'hindi asmita yatra' (or some such thing) where they insisted on imposing hindi as an official language all across the country - kannadigas (and tamils) would protest - no?
Arnab first of all you are veering OT by bringing North South, Tamil Kanndigas Hindi and other OT things over here which does not makes sense. Constitution of India gives the right to every Indian to hoist the national flag in a respectful manner in any part of the country period, but the constitution does not gives any rights to coerce anyone else to speak any specific language. So the comparison is invalid and absurd. Don't just try to prove your point by giving non comparable arguments and examples.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Prem »

Both 1947 and Congressi Raj , how many lives and how much territroy will be lost this time ?
Where is the Bamibini now a days, heard no tweeting from the tweety bird?
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by krisna »

The BJP should take the govt on that. Focus on governance, rip the govt on that and see something real and substantive happens. And no, we have sanctimonious stalling of parliament, and some glib answer on Yeddy on the lines of "immoral but not illegal!" and some taking up some obscure, "Did you fly the flag at Lal Chowk ?. Why not there ? Why do you fly it at that spot 100ms away ?" kind of rubbish.
Vina,
1) BJP wanted JPC for reasons - please check the appropriate thread regarding the scams.
2) BJP wanted tiranga at lal chowk due to reasons alteady mentioned upteem times in this thread
3) yeddy problems are OT to this thread.

flying tiranga is a separate problem unconnected to the monumental scams of congress.
congress is trying to hood wink people by questioning the politics behind the flag issue to divert the issue from corruption.
Congress is playing a dangerous game and is facscist in its outlook. It is playing with fire and setting the country alight.
Already foot soldiers have fanned everywhere to obfuscate the real issue and blame the opposition party.

simple common sense on congress part would have paved the way for a flag raising at lal chowk which now it has agreed.
it is a dangerous game after bringing down the prestige of the nation in front of the separatists and the world.
when you want to be a big boy better behave like one.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by brihaspati »

Acharya wrote:
Marten wrote:

Where were you folks when the valley was burning? Did the deaths of Kashmiri Pundits mean nothing to you?

Why do you ascribe feelings of piety and fairness to the KMs?

Last of all, how would you justify the actions of an administration that allowed the raising of the Pakistani flag on INDIAN territory just last September with a 200 strong mob (OMG< I forgot they sneaked in though, right?) but will not allow the legitimate raising of the Indian flag on the same flagpole?

Seriously, what are you smoking?
This is becoming a sociology experiment for a political divide. Just like they wanted with Indians.
But Acharya ji,
at least we get to know who are the people most likely to have had welcomed Ghori on his rape and pillage campaign if he appeared again today? Even the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir perhaps rose to power perhaps because of non-muslims who argued with the same affiliations and convictions as some posters are doing here? If its a sociology experiment then it also cuts both ways! It exposes the fifth column too, their methods, arguments - political affiliations - and how they prepare the ground for eventual subversion!

I can also see the term "lumpen" having arrived, a particular object of hatred for Marx and Engels, and fondly quoted by all having some pretension of calling themselves Marxists. Unfortunately the lumpen played big parts in urban uprisings that helped the Bolsheviks too - and Stalin wa sparticularly good at using them in his underground days! So when the Jihadis use them on the streets of Kashmir - or the Congress leaders use them against Sikhs in Delhi in 1984 - or the Left uses them in the food or tram movement in Calcutta [it was still officially Calcutta then] - they are not lumpen! If the lumpen are fired by patriotism then its bad!
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Venkarl »

I actually thank Vina, Somnath, Menon, Viv types....I was always neutral to both BJP and INC....but more the hate is harped against BJP...the more support is BJP gathering....knowingly or unknowingly...you have served BJP's purpose (not mine or any individual's)....bhadhaayi ho.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by arnab »

Sidhant wrote:Arnab first of all you are veering OT by bringing North South, Tamil Kanndigas Hindi and other OT things over here which does not makes sense. Constitution of India gives the right to every Indian to hoist the national flag in a respectful manner in any part of the country period, but the constitution does not gives any rights to coerce anyone else to speak any specific language. So the comparison is invalid and absurd. Don't just try to prove your point by giving non comparable arguments and examples.
I'm sorry you find this all OT. My point was simple, what you consider flag hoisting a 'constitutional right' (though I would be obliged if you could tell me where in the Indian constitution it says so), some kashmiris are probably itching to point this out as an example of Indian hegemony blah blah. Similarly hindi is the 'official language' of India , so tomorrow if some party (call them 'Hindi Jagaran Manch') were to demand its imposition across the country and say that this is their definition of patriotism, would you call the south indians who protest, unpatriotic?
Last edited by arnab on 25 Jan 2011 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Vivek Raghuvanshi »

Maybe the BJP will like to take up the issue of Kashmiri Pandits and may be try to get JUSTICE for Kashmiri Pandits
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by AjitK »

ramana wrote:
SwamyG, Very good observation. Most news reports emphasise that Omar Abduallah is acting on Center's directions. He is only the lightning rod and most likely fall guy if there is fallout. Its the 2G coterie that is running this show. Note the composition of those who meet in Delhi.
Its not Kashmir vs India but 2G vs the opposition.
Interestingly,Ahmed Patel (who was in charge of J&K since December) has been replaced by Oscar Fernandes.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by nachiket »

Arnab, this Hindi-Kannadiga business is a strawman argument you are using to deliberately obfuscate the situation. Don't think the posters here are oblivious to your tricks. And what Indian hegemony are you talking about? Are you accepting the separatists position that Kashmir is not a part of India? Is opposing Hindi the same as opposing the national flag? :eek:
Last edited by nachiket on 25 Jan 2011 08:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Prem »

e="brihaspati"]
Acharya wrote:ut Acharya ji,
at least we get to know who are the people most likely to have had welcomed Ghori on his rape and pillage campaign if he appeared again today? Even the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir perhaps rose to power perhaps because of non-muslims who argued with the same affiliations and convictions as some posters are doing here? If its a sociology experiment then it also cuts both ways! It exposes the fifth column too, their methods, arguments - political affiliations - and how they prepare the ground for eventual subversion!
All goes on sale in the name of the Dynasty, Party and Pocket ,
Choorchil was an idiot but had his moment of looking into the future when he said "men of straws" will rule India and it is sad to see many Indians clutching to these straws floating in the air, water and ether. The whining chingerpot on Flag issue is so reminescient of those gentle folks acting tough in front of ABV, imploring him to bargain the country to bring the hijacked plane back from Afghanistan, exactly ten years ago.
Last edited by Prem on 25 Jan 2011 08:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Vivek Raghuvanshi »

For BJP to rally support in J&K they may like to involve kashmiri youth in the main stream.

Maybe BJP may like to do something for the upliftment of kashmiri women by opening job avenues in the private sector by inviting investment from businesses operating in other states
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Muppalla »

This is for menon s ji - You requested to read M K Dhar article and I read the latest from his blog per your advise. If you haven't here is the link for your convinience.

http://maloykrishnadhar.com/extreme-rig ... the-nation
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by krisna »

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:For BJP to rally support in J&K they may like to involve kashmiri youth in the main stream.

Maybe BJP may like to do something for the upliftment of kashmiri women by opening job avenues in the private sector by inviting investment from businesses operating in other states
1) The separatists will not allow womin to work.
2) No outside investments are allowed due to article 370 to preserve the purity. ( please correct me I am wrong)
3) separatists will not allow the establishment of business from outside J&K

basically it is a non starter as the govt is looking to keep J&K in obscurity-- off front pages. rats will do their damage.
:(
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Vivek Raghuvanshi »

If BJP can win the hearts of Kashmiri women by genuinely working for their upliftment, kashmiri youth will love BJP.

But for this BJP will have to genuinely do honest social work in Kashmir

Waving the flag is so insignificant. Who cares.

But however get Omar to wave the National Flag in Kashmir to justify his loyalty on 26th January
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by SandeepA »

Guys,
Need some smart one-liners to fly around on twitter and facebook. Cant emphasize the importance of the same.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by arnab »

nachiket wrote:Arnab, this Hindi-Kannadiga business is a strawman argument you are using to deliberately obfuscate the situation. Don't think the posters here are oblivious to your tricks. And what Indian hegemony are you talking about? Are you accepting the separatists position that Kashmir is not a part of India? Is opposing Hindi the same as opposing the national flag? :eek:
I'm not sure I'm up to any tricks here. The state has the duty to protect the lives of its citizens. If they believe any act can endanger the lives of citizens, they should act - no? What is the flag hoisting intending to achieve? If BJP were to do this is it going to cause any material difference in the J&K security set-up. Can we remove our army from the border and sing - all izz well?

In an emotive sense, IMO opposing the flag is similar to opposing hindi. They were both supposed to provide a link through our diversity. But either of these does not provide India with what Rabindranath Tagore had written so long ago - 'Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high'. Only economic freedom will help us achieve that. Which is why I would like to live in 2047 rather than 1947.
Last edited by arnab on 25 Jan 2011 08:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by menon s »

Sources said the LeT was preparing to strike, using car bombs and IEDs, particularly in the summer capital city of Srinagar."Accordingly, a red alert has been sounded," the sources added.Sources said chief minister Omar Abdullah was in constant touch with union home minister P Chidambaram over security issues ahead of the Republic Day.
Sources said security was also beefed up to prevent any untoward incident ahead of the BJP's planned hoisting of the national flag in Srinagar on the Republic Day.
http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=66884
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by somnath »

Muppalla wrote:This is for menon s ji - You requested to read M K Dhar article and I read the latest from his blog per your advise. If you haven't here is the link for your convinience.

http://maloykrishnadhar.com/extreme-rig ... the-nation
Talking of Moloy Dhar, if you agree with him, then maybe you should also read what he has to say about the Ekta Yatra verI? :wink:
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Vivek Raghuvanshi »

Similarly for BJP to win the hearts of North East women, they need to genuinely work for their upliftment, youth in North East will love BJP.

But for this BJP will have to genuinely do honest social work in North East as well
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Rudradev »

somnath wrote: Are you saying all Instruments of Acession had the same schedule? any references?
Yes.

http://www.oocities.com/capitolhill/con ... 9-211.html

This is the standard template for ALL Instruments of Accession that princely states had to sign when acceding to India, per the Indian Independence Act of the UK Parliament, 1947.
FORM OF INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSION
OF SEMI-JURISDICTIONAL AND JURISDICTIONAL STATES.

Whereas the Indian Independence Act, 1947, provides that as from the fifteenth day of August, 1947, there shall be set up an independent Dominion know as INDIA, and that the Government of India Act, 1935, shall, with such omissions, additions, adaptations and modification as the Governor-General may by order specify be applicable to the Dominion of India
Note the schedule. It is the same as the one for J&K.

In fact, you will see the provisions:
7. Nothing in this Instrument shall be deemed to commit me in any way to acceptance of any future constitution of India or to fetter my discretion to enter into arrangements with the Government of India under any such future constitution.

8. Nothing in this Instrument affects the continuance of my sovereignty in and over this State, or, save as provided by or under this Instrument, the exercise of any powers, authority and rights now enjoyed by me as Ruler of this State or the validity of any law at present in force in this State.
are also part of the Standard Form of every Instrument of Accession. Presumably signed by ALL princely states, including Babariawad or Bhopal or Travancore. Possession, as they realized, is 9/10ths of the Law... all this "nothing in this instrument binds me" was preliminary H&D-soothing nonsense for the Nizam-ul-mulks and Maharajadhirajas, nothing more.

Sorry to say so... but invoking these clauses to pretend as if there was something half-baked or "conditional" about J&K's accession to India is a very, very Paki argument to make!

Not that many states didn't attempt to bargain their way out of it... Hyderabad, for instance, wanted to give over control of foreign affairs only to the extent that the Nizam could remain neutral in the event of an Indo-Pak war. We all know what came of that. It is patently ridiculous to pretend that, once the IoA was signed by Hari Singh, J&K was entitled to a single iota of special treatment over and above the accession clauses agreed to by all monarchs.

Which, again, is a far cry from your assertion:

The one signed by Hari Singh "agreed to accede to the Dominion of India on condition that the state retain its own constitution and autonomy in all matters except defense, currency and foreign affairs"


Which, apart from being completely factually inaccurate, gives the impression that there were very many different "ones." :D
Last edited by Rudradev on 25 Jan 2011 09:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by manju »

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Similarly for BJP to win the hearts of North East women, they need to genuinely work for their upliftment, youth in North East will love BJP.

But for this BJP will have to genuinely do honest social work in North East as well
WTF! Why is this only BJP responsibility.. why not you do it! What ch@$#@ya arguements! How is this relevant to this thread!
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Sidhant »

arnab wrote:
Sidhant wrote:Arnab first of all you are veering OT by bringing North South, Tamil Kanndigas Hindi and other OT things over here which does not makes sense. Constitution of India gives the right to every Indian to hoist the national flag in a respectful manner in any part of the country period, but the constitution does not gives any rights to coerce anyone else to speak any specific language. So the comparison is invalid and absurd. Don't just try to prove your point by giving non comparable arguments and examples.
I'm sorry you find this all OT. My point was simple, what you consider flag hoisting a 'constitutional right' (though I would be obliged if you could tell me where in the Indian constitution it says so), some kashmiris are probably itching to point this out as an example of Indian hegemony blah blah. Similarly hindi is the 'official language' of India , so tomorrow if some party (call them 'Hindi Jagaran Manch') were to demand its imposition across the country and say that this is their definition of patriotism, would you call the south indians who protest, unpatriotic?
This is what Google Uncle Tells me "When Naveen Jindal won a court case in the Supreme Court of India to give Indians the right to unfurl the flag publicly". Can you give me one reference where the constitution of India denies an Indian Citizen to hoist the national flag on a national day in a respectful manner.

"The official language of the Indian Union is Hindi with English as a secondary official language;[1] states in India can legislate their own official languages. Neither the Constitution of India, nor any Indian law defines any national language." Link. This is what Wiki tells me regarding the official language. Does India has a secondary official national Flag? Is BJP going with UP flag/ Bihar flag or Karnataka flag and trying to Getting in unfurled in J&K, then how does your analogy of BJP going on with Hindi Manch in south similar to BJP unfurling the National Flag on a territory which is officially claimed as an Integral part of India?

Also to me the debate is to one basic point, if BJP (may be in all its madness) wanna unfurl the national flag on Republic day on the sovereign territory of Republic of India why can't they do it. What kind of precedence does it puts for the Indian state.
Muppalla
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Muppalla »

somnath wrote:
Muppalla wrote:This is for menon s ji - You requested to read M K Dhar article and I read the latest from his blog per your advise. If you haven't here is the link for your convinience.

http://maloykrishnadhar.com/extreme-rig ... the-nation
Talking of Moloy Dhar, if you agree with him, then maybe you should also read what he has to say about the Ekta Yatra verI? :wink:
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am not anyone's disciple. I have my selections.:)
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Arjun »

As I have said before, if there is one thing that is partisan on this whole thread it is the attitude of the anti-flag hoisters, who have repeatedly and nauseatingly focused on tarring the BJP. They don't have the vision to realize that in their eagerness to tar the BJP, they are tarring the country's key symbols. I would have given them credit if even one of them had focused on the larger issue of flying the NATIONAL FLAG as a fundamental right - and the consequences and benefits of imposing a constraint on this activity.

Any case - we will not hear anything of value from them on this topic. Best to leave it to more capable minds when the larger issue is brought to the courts.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by saket »

Live webcast of BJP rally at Pathankot from 11 am.

http://bjp.1vc.tv/video/520/Rashtriyaek ... ankot.aspx

Right now a fiery Vajpayee speech of yore is playing on repeat.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by Sidhant »

vina wrote:
Sidhant wrote: Vina since when did hoisting the national flag on Indian territory became a polarizing issue?

I already did. It happened the day when BJP made it a partisan issue and brought it's hate baggage into the issue.
Personal bias Vinaji? How do you know BJP made it a partisan issue, it can be equally true that by opposing it Congress is making it a partisan issue by suggesting that KMs will get agitated.
vina wrote:
Sidhant wrote:You talk about responsibility of action, why were you crying hoarse on CWG thread that the games should fail, what happened to the responsibility of action with your beloved party which is breaking record after record of scandals. Your love for Suited Booted corrupts and hatred for SDRE nationalists is beyond comprehension. You seem to be mesmerized with the heavy handed and shady way the so called responsible and Sane party is pulling the nation to new lows.
Exactly. Now there is this massive misgovernance issue of gargantuan proportions staring at your face. I grant it, that the UPA-II govt is probably the most venal and corrupt this country has seen ever, and this is mind you despite the great personal honesty and integrity of the PM and the bulk of the Congress ministers handling their portfolios.

There are scams and scams galore, price rice to high heavens, food inflation, lack of fiscal probity, (Rahul Mehta would love this), massive M3 growth :mrgreen: , misdirected spending, lack of real reforms, stalled governance. . Real life and death issues all I assure you.
And Vina ji even on those issues why the starry Govt of the day not ready for a JPC. Why are most of the deals hush hush and little or no transparency on those scams. What good has this govt done that you are so much in love with them.

Self edited
Last edited by Sidhant on 25 Jan 2011 09:22, edited 1 time in total.
arnab
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by arnab »

Sidhant wrote:This is what Google Uncle Tells me "When Naveen Jindal won a court case in the Supreme Court of India to give Indians the right to unfurl the flag publicly". Can you give me one reference where the constitution of India denies an Indian Citizen to hoist the national flag on a national day in a respectful manner.
As far as I recall, Navin jindal won the right for Indian citizens to fly the flag in their own homes (which was earlier illegal).

Article 343 of the Indian Constitution: " Official language of the Union - The official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. The form of numerals to be used for the official purposes of the Union shall be the international form of Indian numerals."

I'm not sure Constitution has to deny specific issues. It probably says nothing about denying freedom to distribute cocaine. Doesn't mean you can do it though. (because it comes under maintenence of law and order)
Last edited by arnab on 25 Jan 2011 09:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by sum »

For me, the very difference in the thinking of the men in charge can be gauged by the fact that in virtually hopeless conditions ( J&K was almost 80% out of India's grasp), the PM of that time, PVNR, allowed the BJP to hoist the flag even if for 1 minute( thus indicating his backdoor approval) despite the rockets exploding around the Lal Chowk by providing the full might of the central forces.

Cut to the current day and in virtually "peaceful conditions" ( compared to 92), the current GoI uses the might of entire machinery( sealing borders, rerouting trains at midnight) to ensure that the flag is not hoisted at Lal chowk( even by the ruling party, NC/INC, if stealing the thunder of BJP was the aim). Guess that should say enough as to the difference in attitudes of PVNR and MMS/Sonia.

( And No, the CRPF is not hositing it all the clock tower but somewhere else in lal Chowk)
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Re: J & K news and discussion

Post by sum »


In an emotive sense, IMO opposing the flag is similar to opposing hindi. They were both supposed to provide a link through our diversity. But either of these does not provide India with what Rabindranath Tagore had written so long ago - 'Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high'. Only economic freedom will help us achieve that. Which is why I would like to live in 2047 rather than 1947.
Wow, so now even the national flag is under dispute as per posters here.

Amazing that all this is being heard on a "Bharat Rakshak" forum *shakes head*
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