J & K news and discussion

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 15 Oct 2010 17:20

"I don't think Omar Abdullah has said anything objectionable. It is a fact that Jammu and Kashmir has acceded to India just like Mysore acceded to India," Krishna said when asked how he saw the chief minister's statement recently.

Krishna is absolutely right.No difference between Mysuru and Cashmere.

Why cant this senile id*** just stick to the script handed over by babus ? Why does he have to open his mouth and announce his foot in the mouth disease?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Oct 2010 18:31

As for the Union of India, the answer is incredibly simple — allow to the Kashmiris the same respect and dignity that is considered a right by every Indian citizen. If we can do this, this agitation will be remembered only as a rude aftershock to the tremor of the ’90s. Failure risks a relapse into the reckless violence that we had hoped forever gone.

is it a one way street? What about Kashmiri Valley Muslims allowing the "Indians" the same "respect and dignity" they reserve only for Kashmiri valley Muslims? KVM's do not get the same Indian-citizen-rights outside of Kashmir valley in India? How can they operate businesses otherwise, take up residence, marry freely and settle - none of which are allowed to non KVM's inside Kashmir?

If the majority KVM's - the golden hearted silent majority - have not raised a single AK-47 finger against the supposed absolute-minority-fringe [non-loony perhaps as that term can only be applied to non-Muslims] who only are Islamist separatists, then we cannot assume that their intentions are simply about getting "respect and dignity" as Indian citizens.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Oct 2010 18:36

brihaspati wrote:
As for the Union of India, the answer is incredibly simple — allow to the Kashmiris the same respect and dignity that is considered a right by every Indian citizen. If we can do this, this agitation will be remembered only as a rude aftershock to the tremor of the ’90s. Failure risks a relapse into the reckless violence that we had hoped forever gone.
is it a one way street? What about Kashmiri Valley Muslims allowing the "Indians" the same "respect and dignity" they reserve only for Kashmiri valley Muslims? KVM's do not get the same Indian-citizen-rights outside of Kashmir valley in India? How can they operate businesses otherwise, take up residence, marry freely and settle - none of which are allowed to non KVM's inside Kashmir?

If the majority KVM's - the golden hearted silent majority - have not raised a single AK-47 finger against the supposed absolute-minority-fringe [non-loony perhaps as that term can only be applied to non-Muslims] who only are Islamist separatists, then we cannot assume that their intentions are simply about getting "respect and dignity" as Indian citizens.

the golden hearted silent majority??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Oct 2010 20:44

Is Krishna laying the groundwork for a new seccesion?

This is the peril of thinking in native language and speaking in English.

Nagarik does not translate to citizen which has polticial connotations in modern language.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Oct 2010 22:01

ramana wrote:Is Krishna laying the groundwork for a new seccesion?

SMK is supposed to be illegimate son of the mirza - the diwan of Kingdom of Mysore.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Oct 2010 22:03

Kashmir and all the other entities were Kingdoms and were not states. Hence they should be seen as Kingdom with a monarchy and have no place in the modern nation state

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Oct 2010 22:16

ramana wrote:Is Krishna laying the groundwork for a new seccesion?

This is the peril of thinking in native language and speaking in English.

Nagarik does not translate to citizen which has polticial connotations in modern language.

Some guys only know where they are going is after a heavy dose of castor oil. This "should have been put out to pasture" gentleman is long past his sell by date.

Why do we not have someone like Parthasarthy as the FM?
He is erudite, suave, extremely knowledgeable and most importantly knows the territory.

He will have nothing else to distract him as he does not have any constituency to nurse or favor. His complete focus will be on his job and the pakis and the pandas will get the message.

The paki FM qureshi would never have dared taken the chance and tried to ambush someone like Partha as SMK was ambushed in pakiland.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Oct 2010 23:04

chetak wrote: the golden hearted silent majority??

Chetak ji - allow me some rare respites of indulging in some sarcasm! Am I not a human being too!

That expression is a brief reaction to the carpet bombing of our sensibilities loaded with the explosive idea that the "majority" of KVM's do not want separation, are not Islamist, have no truck or sympathy for Jihadis etc.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Oct 2010 21:33

brihaspati wrote:
chetak wrote: the golden hearted silent majority??
Chetak ji - allow me some rare respites of indulging in some sarcasm! Am I not a human being too! That expression is a brief reaction to the carpet bombing of our sensibilities loaded with the explosive idea that the "majority" of KVM's do not want separation, are not Islamist, have no truck or sympathy for Jihadis etc.

Sorry saar, was simply overwhelmed when I read that.

I value your opinion and sagacity. Next time a little warning perhaps, like a smiley or two.

Here's what Arvind Lavakare has to say on the subject.

http://www.asianage.com/letters/omar-ab ... istory-510

Sir, Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah seems allergic to the BJP’s refrain that J&K is an integral part of India. Mr Abdullah needs to be reminded that in February 22, 1994 Indian Parliament passed the unanimous resolution wherein one of its four points stated that “The state of Jammu & Kashmir has been, is and shall be an integral part of India…” Also, Section 147 of that very Constitution lays down that “no bill or amendment seeking to make a change in the provisions of Section 3 shall be introduced or moved on either house of the Legislature”. Finally, because he talked of the Sheikh (Abdullah)–Indira agreement and the autonomy resolution of the J&K government, let him remind that the autonomy proposal of restoring J&K’s legal status of 1953 (when Sheikh Abdullah was in power) was thrown out by the late Mrs Indira Gandhi in 1975 as well as by the NDA government 25 years later.
Arvind Lavakare
Wadala (E), Mumbai

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Oct 2010 08:24

Acharya wrote:
ramana wrote:Is Krishna laying the groundwork for a new seccesion?
SMK is supposed to be illegimate son of the mirza - the diwan of Kingdom of Mysore.

Any source?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Oct 2010 17:56

This is what a Kashmiri writes about Headley affair

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/w ... adley.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/world ... adley.html

Sheikh M Ashraf
Kashmir India
October 16th, 2010
10:20 pm

Believing now to the Mr. D Headley's wife, when even USA agencies did not believe at the moment she had informed them, which could have served the purpose, is the similar way as USA blmed Iraq for Chemical weapos, killed thousands,and destroyed Iraq, but it actually turned there were no chemical weapons, killed thousands, and destroyed Afganistan when they are yet to reach out conclusion, and debate is still going on who actually were behing the twin tower attack.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Oct 2010 03:26

Today's Eenadu paper quotes Gila-nahi saying that "soon there will be a good news on JK ". He also says that the world accepted Paki-logic on JK issue.

Any other media bites on this?

dada · Post by **dada** » 18 Oct 2010 15:59

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/germanymusl ... mmigration

"Merkel says German multi-cultural society has failed"

This is one of the most interesting news in recent past. Leaving aside the rhetorics, look at it as an 20 years old german experiment in social construction after 1990. This has implications for reconstruction of the kashmiri society (or practically any society). Muslim dominated societies are hardly known to practice , these kind of "social experiment" , Their approach is fundamentally opposite !

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Oct 2010 16:36

RamaY wrote:Today's Eenadu paper quotes Gila-nahi saying that "soon there will be a good news on JK ". He also says that the world accepted Paki-logic on JK issue.

Any other media bites on this?

I didn't read anuthing anywhere, but one can only speculate. The "good news" won't be a deluge but will come in pieces. TSP is desparate for AFSPA to be withdrawn, and thats what MMS will offer them, after being conveyed the same by Obama. Stay tuned. Quiet diplomacy onlee.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Oct 2010 16:40

RamaY wrote:Today's Eenadu paper quotes Gila-nahi saying that "soon there will be a good news on JK ". He also says that the world accepted Paki-logic on JK issue.

Any other media bites on this?

Paki Daily Times also reported it.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2010 16:45

CRamS wrote:
RamaY wrote:Today's Eenadu paper quotes Gila-nahi saying that "soon there will be a good news on JK ". He also says that the world accepted Paki-logic on JK issue.

Any other media bites on this?
I didn't read anuthing anywhere, but one can only speculate. The "good news" won't be a deluge but will come in pieces. TSP is desparate for AFSPA to be withdrawn, and thats what MMS will offer them, after being conveyed the same by Obama. Stay tuned. Quiet diplomacy onlee.

I agree with you, the removal of AFSPA is a urgent requirement of the paki army to protect it's infiltrators.

We seem to be walking into it with our eyes wide open despite the acute discomfiture of the Indian Army.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Oct 2010 16:54

TSP wants India talks, and resulting concessions as a way to position itself to deliver deadly blows to India in the valley in a few years. With unquestionable support for TSP terrorists among the average KM abdul, the game plan is to put in place an infrastructure so the countless spectacle of horrendous terror we have seen in the past can be common place again, only this time with world (and their Indian 5th columnist) sanction. Thats their desparation for removal of AFSPA, autonomy, "joint control" and all that crap. So while many here take comfort that MMS cannot gift away the valley because there are parliament resolutions, the damage he is doing is in piece meal.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Oct 2010 17:11

Let us wait and see when the AFSPA is removed and from which areas it is removed from. Only then will we be able to make accurate comments about the future direction of J&K.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2010 17:18

CRamS wrote:TSP wants India talks, and resulting concessions as a way to position itself to deliver deadly blows to India in the valley in a few years. With unquestionable support for TSP terrorists among the average KM abdul, the game plan is to put in place an infrastructure so the countless spectacle of horrendous terror we have seen in the past can be common place again, only this time with world (and their Indian 5th columnist) sanction. Thats their desparation for removal of AFSPA, autonomy, "joint control" and all that crap. So while many here take comfort that MMS cannot gift away the valley because there are parliament resolutions, the damage he is doing is in piece meal.

Joint control is just an euphemism for the hijacking and complete paki control over the river waters.

Once we have done this, they don't even need the accession of kashmir to pakiland.

This is what the stupid politicos will give away, fooling the nation and it's people.

MMS is heading that-a-way, with much pappi jhappi, egged on by sickular liberals who have wet dreams of the balkanization of India.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Oct 2010 19:15

Pratyush wrote:Let us wait and see when the AFSPA is removed and from which areas it is removed from. Only then will we be able to make accurate comments about the future direction of J&K.

It will be too late by then.

Can the Jammu and Ladakh political groups seek AFSPA so IA has enough teeth to destroy their common enemy, the Sunni wahabi terrorism?

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 18 Oct 2010 20:56

DNA is reporting the arrest of Masarat Alam, leader of the pro-Pakistan Muslim League, was behind the recent civil unrest in J&K.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Oct 2010 21:06

Guys Regarding the AFSPA, if the goi was going to bend they would have done it by now.

Moreover, if the soft border, joint soverignity c r a p was to be implimented it would have been done when the situation had not reached such an impass. ie at a time where the GOI could do so and get away with it. Today ironically the KMs in the valley have by their actios have made any such action politically impossible for the GOI. As doing so now will result in a loss of face to the GOI.

If any thing, only to protect it self and the first family no sacrifices will be made in the J&K. Simply because making them now will result in the unwinding of the current GOI. With the near destruction of the UPA govt.

Also remember the first objective of a politition is power. If any action causes a loss of power. Then he will be reluctant to take it.

So IMO we can be a bit more confident of the GOI and its actions. At least where J&K is concerned.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 19 Oct 2010 09:14

Kashmir mosque siege on as militant refuses to give up

SRINAGAR: The standoff between an injured guerrilla hiding in a mosque in Kashmir's Bandipora district and the security forces continued Monday evening as a village cleric and elders failed to persuade the militant to surrender.

"The injured militant lobbed a grenade at the surrounding security men who did not retaliate in deference to the mosque inside which the militant is hiding," a senior police officer said here.

The injured militant took shelter in the mosque in Dabban village after a gun battle early Monday morning when a group of militants moving around in the forest area near Dabban village was surrounded by personnel of the counter-insurgency force, the Rahstriya Rifles and state police.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Oct 2010 09:50

Facing up to Kashmir realities - Edit in The Hindu
Excerpts

Chief Minister Omar Abdullah’s observations in the State Assembly recently on the Kashmir crisis must be appreciated as much for their candour as for the honest acknowledgment that it is essentially a political problem requiring a political solution. His point that Kashmir is a dispute between two neighbours and must be recognised . . .

There are two issues whose boundaries almost always blur and overlap. One is the aggression by Pakistan and the other is the so-called 'alienation' within Kashmir itself. The former is *not* a problem that is going to be settled through dialogue alone. It needs a military solution, followed, may be, by a dialogue. India has to be prepared for a lot of bloodshed. There are no two ways about that. The latter, the 'alienation' part, can be partly addressed politically and the rest by tough police action. The latter group consists of disgruntled elements (like what we find in all other parts of the country) and a large number of separatists. There is no other option for the GoI than dealing with the separatists ruthlessly. It is as much a folly 'talking to them' and hoping for a turnaround as it is for a peace deal with the Taliban in Af-Pak.

To call the Kashmir crisis as purely a political problem is dishonest and self-deluding. We will never reach a solution with this approach.

As for Kashmir being a dispute between two neighbours, well, that is what Pakistan keeps saying to hide its aggression and illegal occupation of J&K. Why should a Chief Minister of India who has sworn on the integrity and sovereignty of this country echo those vile thoughts ? He cannot talk as though he is a neutral party in this dispute egging on both countries to resolve the so-called dispute. He exhibits the same trait that we have seen in these ungrateful Kashmiris of speaking with a forked tongue, just like his grandfather, his father and a great many other Kashmiri leaders and ordinary citizens did before and continue to do now.

By supporting this poisonous thought, the Home Minister P. Chidambaram has caused a great harm to Indian unity. Rather than taking a stand on India's national interests, he has allowed politicization of this grave matter.

His observation that Kashmir had not merged with the Union of India but had only acceded to it under an agreement was not just historically accurate; it also provides the key to the concept of a special status for the troubled State. By underlining the fact that while Kashmir had adhered to the Indian Union, it had been promised by the makers of India’s Constitution that the unique circumstances of its accession would be respected, the Chief Minister was building the case for a substantive devolution of powers to the State.

This is the most virulent articulation of separatism and threat I have ever heard in the J&K issue. The fact that it comes from the Chief Minister of that state and central ministers, ruling party, media et al support this separatist thought bodes ill for our country.

The 'special status' was promised under certain conditions. But, the actions of the fifth columnists within J&K, the inconsistent and greedy stands of the J&K political leaders since 1948, the terror sponsored by Pakistan for which sections of Kashmiris lent support since 1947 etc have altered the situation irreversibly. It is no longer possible to talk of the same promises etc.

I await usual 'chanakian' explanation for Omar Abdullah's speech above from BRFites.

Chief Minister Abdullah’s candour and boldness . . .

Nothwithstanding the high praise heaped on Omar Abdullah by all and sundry, in my book, these words are not candid and bold, but treasonous.

dada · Post by **dada** » 19 Oct 2010 11:37

An excerpt from a comment on a website

"Well, it's a very difficult situation for israel, in particular because of the propaganda war. So palestinians let children throw stones and Israeli solders react and kill one of those children. What is the public reaction: Israeli soldiers kill palestinian children! But, what should be the reaction: Palestinians make their children fight wars!"

The readers can easily appreciate the strategy adopted by the kashmiri separatists.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 19 Oct 2010 19:41

This is OT but i am disturbed by what S M Krishna had said about the Abdullah juniors statements.He justified it by giving a comparision between Mysore kingdom(current Karnataka).So i was wondering whether Yedyurappa can also make same statements as Abdullah junior and what would SM Krishna sir have to say ...

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Oct 2010 20:27

Pakis in JK show their Pakiness

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 19 Oct 2010 20:32

^ These sort of writings on the wall are a slap to Indians and it is high time such radicals were dispatched to their maker in short time.This is not only morally offensive but against the constitution and speedy remedies have to be brought out rather than the waffling by our politicos.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Oct 2010 21:15

Send them to Pakistan where they can live under Nizam-e_ Musharraf.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 21 Oct 2010 09:59

J&K: 1,514 FIRs against Army, 97% cases false http://www.zeenews.com/news662525.html

Jammu: Over 100 Army men including 48 officers have faced punitive action in cases related to human right violations in Jammu and Kashmir over the last two decades, Army said Wednesday.

"As many as 1,514 FIRs have been registered against army personnel for alleged human rights violations in the last 20 years of militancy", Brigadier General Staff (BGS), Northern Command, Sanjay Verma said.

He said that out of these 1,508 cases have been investigated while probe is continuing in the remaining six cases.

"As many as 1,473 complaints - nearly 97 per cent of the cases-- were found false and baseless," Verma said.

However, 35 cases (2.3 per cent of total cases) were found true, he said, adding that 104 armymen including 48 officers have been punished for human rights violations in J&K.

"Our accountability is very strong. Our investigation and punishment in cases related to alleged human rights violations is very fast," the Brigadier said, underscoring that there "is no room for mistakes.

Army has alway maintained zero-tolerance to human rights violations," he said.

Army officials maintained that they were following certain strict edicts, including presence of police representative during operations and immediate handing over of detainees to police, while conducting counter-terrorism operations under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA).

Army ensures that a police representative is present as part of the operational team though an exception could be made in remote areas where the strength of the police force may not be sufficient to be deployed in more than one operation going on simultaneously, they said.

All operations are conducted as joint operations with the police, they said adding that recoveries made, detainees and bodies of those killed are immediately handed over to the local police.

"No unilateral arrests or searches are made. All actions are based on hard actionable intelligence," they said, adding that army has discontinued crowd control measures and has left the task to the state police.

"No women are searched until women police personnel are present during the operation," they said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Oct 2010 13:12

News Channels are reporting that a major gun battle is going on with holed up militants in the outskirts of Srinagar. Visuals showed jawans escorting men, women and children to safety from a residential area where the terrorists have sneaked in. Those Kashmiris who accuse the jawans must stop for a moment to think about the service they are providing risking their lives when terrorists strike like this.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 21 Oct 2010 17:39

Toilet TV reports that the Pakbaric potty mouthed barbarian Geelani was heckled while delivering hate speech...theme was 'Azadi only option'...who invites him to such gatherings..must be bunch of JNU rapist goon puppets...

my suspicions confirmed...

http://news.oneindia.in/2010/10/21/kash ... elani.html

Shouting slogans like, "Bharat mata ki jay," "Vande Mataram", the protesters created ruckus at the convention on "Azaadi, the only Way," which was being attended by a number of sympathisers of Kashmiri separatists and naxals.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Oct 2010 17:40

SSridhar wrote:News Channels are reporting that a major gun battle is going on with holed up militants in the outskirts of Srinagar. Visuals showed jawans escorting men, women and children to safety from a residential area where the terrorists have sneaked in. Those Kashmiris who accuse the jawans must stop for a moment to think about the service they are providing risking their lives when terrorists strike like this.

I cannot find this information on New York Times website (at 6 pm IST). I guess activities of JeM are not newsworthy for NYT.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Oct 2010 18:15

Twitter is abuzz with burqa dutt doing another kargil by revealing troop positions in undy tv coverage of the J&K firefight.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 21 Oct 2010 18:26

Two militants killed in J&K encounter
Two rats have been sent to the 72's, third one is on the run.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Oct 2010 18:45

Suppiah wrote:Toilet TV reports that the Pakbaric potty mouthed barbarian Geelani was heckled while delivering hate speech...theme was 'Azadi only option'...who invites him to such gatherings..must be bunch of JNU rapist goon puppets...

my suspicions confirmed...

http://news.oneindia.in/2010/10/21/kash ... elani.html

Shouting slogans like, "Bharat mata ki jay," "Vande Mataram", the protesters created ruckus at the convention on "Azaadi, the only Way," which was being attended by a number of sympathisers of Kashmiri separatists and naxals.

susannah roy was also there along with a lot of other shady government paid traitors of the JNU types, all questioning kashmir being an integral part of India.

MMS, yuvraj and the rajmata have a lot to answer for.

WTF was chidambaram doing??

Such filth in Delhi??. Incidentally geelani is in town for medical treatment paid for by the GOI.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Oct 2010 19:19

I watched in NewsX channel an interactive panel discussion in the open on the banks of the Dal Lake anchored by Seema Mustafa. Such discussions have caught the imagination of the channels and everybody is going to Srinagar. One of the participants was a Pandit gentleman. He was for Azaadi and he was very critical of the Indian government. He did not identify himself with India at all. However, he seemed a little bit worried that Nizam-e-Mustafa might overtake the Valley though he was loathe to admit it in the open.

There is a concerted attempt to take the Kashmir crisis to a crescendo just before Obama's visit to India. The disturbances in the last few months, the synchronized and blatant description of the disturbances as 'non-violent protests', the continuing terrorist attacks, the Geelani meeting at Delhi where pro-azaadi slogans were openly aired and protestors were forced out etc. are all well planned. GoI is clueless and weak and it seems that even treasonous speeches are all right.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Oct 2010 19:54

Hindustan Times reports:

J&K and PoK trade reaches Rs 300 Crores

Interesting items being exported and imported.

Coconuts from J&K and Chinese Moong dal from PoK!

Cheating as usual by the TSP.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 21 Oct 2010 20:37

Geelani faces shoe protest in national capital

The protestors, shouting slogans like 'Bharat Mata Ki Jai' and 'Vande Mataram', created ruckus at the convention on 'Azaadi -- The Only Way' which was being attended by a number of sympathisers of Kashmiri separatists and naxals.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 21 Oct 2010 20:42

Geelani gets heckled in Delhi seminar

Professor Sujatha Rao raised the Azaad kashmir pitch and said the Indian state should be given to Kashmir azadi.

Geelani, who has been specially invited to the seminar by CRPP president Guru Sharan Singh, will return to Kashmir on Sunday, October 24.

Yaar who is this Rao and Sharan Singh?. I think we should create traitor database with the names of all of these people.