Indian Military Aviation

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Indian Military Aviation

Postby KrishG » 04 Oct 2010 15:53


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Willy » 04 Oct 2010 17:07

The US government cleared yet another high technology system for India, the shipboard capable Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and battle management. The clearance has been described by diplomatic sources as a fall-out of the ''successful'' visit of secretary of state Hillary Clinton, and the signing of the End User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) of military equipment being supplied or sold by the US to India.



Hmm when did that happen??????


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2010 17:26

since IN doesnt have a carrier capable of launching E2 and will not have it until IAC2 hopefully in 2020, this can only mean a play for shore based IN AEW and attempt to head off the chance that IN might go with the EMB145 soln that IAF is taking. benefits touted will be proven tech, "optimized" over water capability etc etc and instantly carrier capable when carrier(s) arrive. plus it will help sell the catapult system too.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shukla » 04 Oct 2010 17:36

Willy wrote:
The US government cleared yet another high technology system for India, the shipboard capable Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and battle management. The clearance has been described by diplomatic sources as a fall-out of the ''successful'' visit of secretary of state Hillary Clinton, and the signing of the End User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) of military equipment being supplied or sold by the US to India.



Hmm when did that happen??????


30th July 2009, to be precise.. go thru the BR archives fir details or google. Full text of the agreement hasn't been made public..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Oct 2010 17:58

Willy wrote:
The US government cleared yet another high technology system for India, the shipboard capable Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and battle management. The clearance has been described by diplomatic sources as a fall-out of the ''successful'' visit of secretary of state Hillary Clinton, and the signing of the End User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) of military equipment being supplied or sold by the US to India.



Hmm when did that happen??????

Sir I believe you are confusing the CISMOA and MLSA with the EUMA...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shankar » 04 Oct 2010 19:17

hawk eye for Vikramaditya?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nachiket » 04 Oct 2010 19:32

Shankar wrote:hawk eye for Vikramaditya?

The Hawk Eye will need a catapault to take off. So no hawk eyes on Indian carriers until IAC2 (which will hopefully have a catapault). They can be used as coastal based AEW platforms.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Lalmohan » 04 Oct 2010 20:08

the only advantage i can see is possible integration with USN C4 if and when we do joint ops
otherwise, why not go for commonality with IAF in joint command structures?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Craig Alpert » 04 Oct 2010 21:23

50% of IAF equipment obsolete, says IAF chief
NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force on Monday said that 50% of its systems and equipment were obsolete and steps were being taken to bring down the obsolescence levels in the next four to five years.

"The obsolescence percentage is 50%," Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said here adding that "by 2014-15, it would come down to 20%".

The IAF chief was addressing his annual press conference on the Air Force Day held on October 8 every year.

Asked which was the most critical area for the force in this regard, Naik said, "Air Defence. That will be the only word."

The Air Chief made it clear that even with 50% obsolete equipment, the IAF was capable of handling threats from the medium of air and space. "We are fully capable of defending the country from any threat."

At present, IAF relies mainly on its Russian-origin air defence systems such as the OSA-AK and Pechora and the shoulder-fired Igla missiles, which have been in service for over two decades.

In the recent past, the IAF has been working on developing its air defence network and is looking to procure various systems in this regard.

It has already ordered for over six squadrons of the indigenously-made Akash air defence systems and the Spyder Medium-range Surface to Air Missile (MR-SAM) system from Israel along with aerostat radars to prevent any aerial attacks.

The force is looking at deploying low-level and medium-level transportable radars at different locations and is also planning to procure radars for being deployed in high altitude areas along the borders with China and Pakistan.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 04 Oct 2010 22:14

The AD Environment overhaul - compromising of Radars and SR/MR/LR-SAM under order and development is the quiet but major change that is taking place in the Indian defence environment.

Considering that the wavelengths are occupied by more glamorous LCA, MMRCA and PAK-FA, these development tend to go under the radar of jingoes - or not appreciated that much. But slowly but surely, the AD environment at IAF level is being modernized and being taken to a different level all together - newer radars, AWACS, EMB-145, SAMs and C4I will make for one hell of an ADGES. The problems for PAF have just begun to get compounded. We just need to replicate this set-up in NE.

Question - is there a land version of Barak-NG for IAF?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Craig Alpert » 04 Oct 2010 23:54

Shiv Arror Reports
Well, for what it was worth, the Indian Air Force chief was asked today if the soon to be concluded C-17 deal was simply another piece of business thrown Washington's way in line with India's new strategic imperatives. Air Chief Naik replied, "A great amount of thought and planning has gone into our decision to obtain the C-17. My team did a detailed study about what was available and what capabilities were out there. There were no compulsions. We had requirements that dictated a certain amount of lift capacity and the ability to operate from short runways. The C-17 turned out to be the only aircraft in the global market that met both requirements. The other heavylift types, with six or eight engines, cannot function from short runways, and that was a basic requirement."


Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik indicated today that the potential multiplicity of aircraft types in his fleet inventory was a major cause for concern, and that by the end of the decade, the IAF would hopefully have an inventory of just five fighter types: the upgraded Su-30MKI (272), the MMRCA (126), the PAK FA/Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (200-250), the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (100)and the Tejas MK-II (150-200). "If it were upto me, I would have a single aircraft type. But we don't live in a perfect world," the Air Chief said.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Craig Alpert » 05 Oct 2010 04:30

India to spend over $25 billion to induct 250 5th-gen stealth fighters
NEW DELHI: India will eventually spend over $25 billion to induct 250 advanced stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), on way to being co-developed with Russia, in what will be the country's biggest-ever defence project.

With a potent mix of super-manoeuvrability and supersonic cruising ability, long-range strike and high-endurance air defence capabilities, each FGFA will cost upwards of Rs 450 crore or around $100 million.

This will be in addition to the huge investment to be made in co-developing FGFA with cash-strapped Russia, as also the huge infrastructure required to base, operate and maintain such jets in India.

"We are looking to induct 200 to 250 FGFA in phases from 2017 onwards,'' confirmed IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik on Monday. As reported by TOI earlier, New Delhi and Moscow are looking to ink the FGFA preliminary design contract when Russian President Dmitry Medvedev comes visiting here in December.

Under intense negotiations for the last four-five years, the FGFA project will also figure in the talks between defence minister A K Antony and his Russian counterpart Anatoly Serdyukov on October 8.

Though the Indian FGFA will based on the Russian Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA, which flew for the first time this January at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur facility in Siberia, it will be built to IAF's specifications. It's already being touted as superior to the American F/A-22 `Raptor', the world's only operational FGFA as of now.

ACM Naik said the 30-tonne FGFA will be a "swing-role fighter, with very advanced avionics, stealth to increase survivability, enhanced lethality, 360 degree situational awareness, smart weapons, data-links, high-end mission computers'' and the like.

Along with 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, which India plans to acquire in a $10.4 billion project, 270 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for around $12 billion and 120 indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, the FGFA will be the mainstay of India's air combat fleet for the foreseeable future.

Even as the Army revises its war doctrine to factor in the worst-case scenario of a simultaneous two-front war with Pakistan and China, is IAF also preparing for the same?

"Our modernisation plans are based on the four pillars of `see, reach, hit and protect'...We prepare for a multi-faceted, multi-dimensional, multi-front war,'' said ACM Naik.

"But our approach is capability-based, not adversary-specific. Our modernisation drive is in tune with our nation's aspirations,'' he said, adding that India's strategic interests stretched "from Hormuz Strait to Malacca Strait and beyond''.


To a volley of questions on China and Pakistan, IAF chief said, "All neighbours, from the smallest to the largest, have to be watched with caution...Their capabilities have to be assessed...Anything that can upset the growth of our nation is a matter of concern.''

With the new planned inductions in the pipeline, IAF's obsolescence rate will come down to 20% by 2014-15 from the current 50% or so. "But this does not mean that we are not fully capable of defending the country from any air or space threat at the moment...We are,'' said ACM Naik.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Juggi G » 05 Oct 2010 04:56

Car Nicobar IAF Base To Add New Assets
Aviation Week
Car Nicobar IAF Base To Add New Assets
Oct 4, 2010

By Anantha Krishnan M.
PORT BLAIR, India

The Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Car Nicobar soon will have a full-fledged flight detachment, and a medium power radar (MPR) will be commissioned by 2012.

“The MPR will further add teeth to the base,” Wing Cdr. M.S. Sridhar, officiating station commander, tells AVIATION WEEK. “We have a Rohini radar now with limited ground control interception. We will also have an air defense weapons squadron.”

The base falls under the Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC), which has plans to upgrade the facility so all IAF platforms can operate from here. The site sustained severe damage in the December 2004 tsunami.

“We lost close to 130 [people] from IAF during [the] tsunami and we have now completely reconstructed the base,” Sridhar says. “The runway was the key. It acted as the lifeline to people here, and it, too, was redone four months after the tsunami. The base had subsided by 1.2 meters, post-tsunami.”

The base’s 151 Sqdn., spread across 509.4 acres, was handed over to the IAF by the U.K.’s Royal Air Force in 1956. The runway is 8,790 ft. long. The base is located 280 km. (174 mi.) from Port Blair.

“The 122 HF Helicopter Sqdn. operates the MI-8 choppers. There is a UAV base, which is used for reconnaissance for the southern and northern group of islands,” Sridhar says.

The base is strategic for ANC because the major shipping lanes of many countries, including China, pass through the region. The base’s development is is considered key for monitoring the Malacca Straits.

A couple of years ago, India’s Defense Research and Development Organization tested the BrahMos supersonic ship-to-ship missile from the Car Nicobar region.

Base photo : Major Sandesh, MOD
Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Juggi G » 05 Oct 2010 04:57

Indian Air Force Strives For Commonality
Aviation Week
Indian Air Force Strives For Commonality
Oct 4, 2010

By Neelam Mathews mathews.neelam@gmail.com
NEW DELHI

Lack of Commonality in Aircraft Models has Made Inventory Management a Grueling Task for the Indian Air Force, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik tells AVIATION WEEK here on the IAF’s 78th anniversary.

Steps are being taken to bring obsolescence levels (50% of equipment is outdated) down to 20% by 2014-15. “Air Defense is the Most Critical,” he says.

Financial Constraints Hampered this Effort in the Past, Naik says.

We Can Now Spend More Money and Buy What We Need. :D (Hell Yeah !!)

In a few years, the IAF will have the medium multi-role combat aircraft, light combat aircraft, fifth-generation combat aircraft and the Su-30s with a reduced diversity.”

Naik acknowledges that accident prevention is a key driver. “With older aircraft the mean time between failures changes…. That is why older aircraft have more accidents.
We’ve had a Lot of Engine-Related Problems on the MiG-27s Recently.Some are related to Design, some to Production and to Human Error. We are in discussions with the Original Manufacturer.

India and Russia are jointly developing a fifth-generation stealth fighter by 2017. “We are looking for about 200 to 250 aircraft,” Naik says.
“Some of the Features will Include a 30-Ton weight, Swing Role, Advance Avionics, 360 degrees of Situational Awareness, Onboard Sensors, Data Link, Smart Weapons and Large, Unrefueled Range.”

Naik Justifies India’s U.S. foreign military sales Request for 10 C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft—a $4.4-billion deal.

“A Big Study was Carried Out,” he says.

“Our Requirement was to Move a Large Quantity of Forces and Materials from Forward Places and Operate on Short Air Strips.
The C-17 Stood Out.”

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Craig Alpert » 05 Oct 2010 05:16


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 15:54

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/T ... CN0707.JPG

this is the state of Leh airfield. hardly a hanger of any kind and exposed open parking areas to accomodate around 10 fighters.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sgopal » 05 Oct 2010 16:03

Singha wrote:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/TKX9lEykeBI/AAAAAAAABNg/ulai0mdCmqQ/s1600/DSCN0707.JPG

this is the state of Leh airfield. hardly a hanger of any kind and exposed open parking areas to accomodate around 10 fighters.


Singha,

If you look at the image carefully, you can see the hardened shelters for aircrafts scattered near the runway.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Viv S » 05 Oct 2010 16:21

sgopal wrote:
Singha wrote:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/TKX9lEykeBI/AAAAAAAABNg/ulai0mdCmqQ/s1600/DSCN0707.JPG

this is the state of Leh airfield. hardly a hanger of any kind and exposed open parking areas to accomodate around 10 fighters.


Singha,

If you look at the image carefully, you can see the hardened shelters for aircrafts scattered near the runway.


Can you identify the fighters? They look like MiG-29s to me. Perhaps over on a training exercise.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 05 Oct 2010 16:27

Singha wrote:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/TKX9lEykeBI/AAAAAAAABNg/ulai0mdCmqQ/s1600/DSCN0707.JPG

this is the state of Leh airfield. hardly a hanger of any kind and exposed open parking areas to accomodate around 10 fighters.


Singha, what were you smoking? :P You, of all the people, could not catch the hardened shelters and MIG-29 in the pic?

Enlarge/magnify the pic and look carefully where those Mig-29 are parked - those are hardened shelters with the characteristic Ladakh sand on top - a real good camouflage, if I may say so. There are total of 6 such shelters.

Another thing - the distance from dispersal area to the runway is real short - when one compares with other bases. Not surprising the reaction time IAF Fighters will get.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby JimmyJ » 05 Oct 2010 16:37

Andaman & Nicobar to have runways every 100 miles



After Port Blair, the Andaman and Nicobar Islands are now set to have full-length 'all weather and all aircraft' runways after every 100 miles, an official said.

"Every 100 miles or so you will find an airfield capable of operating all aircrafts (which could include commercial ones) in all-weather conditions," Commander-in-Chief of the Islands DK Joshi said.

Presently, only Port Blair has a full-fledged runway capable of operating all kinds of aircraft but considering the height of a hill on the eastern side, it's a uni-directional airstrip.

However, it's planned to be made bi-directional soon

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 05 Oct 2010 16:39

^^^Excellent - nothing like this to instill redundancy and back-up in the system. And also, retain airlfields for use in case any one of the other airfield island(s) falls.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Pratyush » 05 Oct 2010 16:43

^^^ What is the DDM smoking???

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Juggi G » 05 Oct 2010 17:56


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 18:08

>> There are total of 6 such shelters.

thats nowhere near enough. thoise doesnt even have shelters from looks of it. major IAF bases tend to have around 30 and more
widely separated and protected. the chinese just need to dial in the co-ordinates into a dozen odd DF21s and this lot will be badly damaged.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Austin » 05 Oct 2010 18:37


shiv
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2010 19:02

thats nowhere near enough. thoise doesnt even have shelters from looks of it. major IAF bases tend to have around 30 and more widely separated and protected. the chinese just need to dial in the co-ordinates into a dozen odd DF21s and this lot will be badly damaged.


:lol: rohitvats. You asked for it.

China has already won. so 6 are actually too many. :wink:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 05 Oct 2010 20:04

shiv wrote:
thats nowhere near enough. thoise doesnt even have shelters from looks of it. major IAF bases tend to have around 30 and more widely separated and protected. the chinese just need to dial in the co-ordinates into a dozen odd DF21s and this lot will be badly damaged.


:lol: rohitvats. You asked for it.

China has already won. so 6 are actually too many. :wink:


I know :P

But here are couple of questions to everyone - how does one manage to land DF-21 on such a small area? What CEP does it have? Secondly, what is the kind and weight of warhead carried by DF-21 or even Chinese Cruise Missiles to be able to penetrate the HS in Leh or any other airfield in India? Will conventional warhead coupled with CEP for a BM allow for any meaningfull gain to any adversary, let alone China?

Wiki tells me that DF-11 and DF-15 are the most numerous BM with 2nd Artillery Corps with range of 600-800kms and warhead of 800-500Kgs - now what kind of accuracy are these SRBM likely to have? And how is 800kgs of warhead on BM more lethal than same weight LGB dropped from a F-16 - which will be more accurate?

More than the ability to harm the HS, it is the nuisance value and threat to men and material in open and limited threat to the runways which is more pertinent. An air burst with bomblets and FAE can cause more damage to men and material in open.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2010 20:21

Rohit forget it. You can't win.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 05 Oct 2010 21:05

shiv wrote:Rohit forget it. You can't win.


But what about shameless desire to increase my post count? :mrgreen: :P :twisted:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 05 Oct 2010 21:40

I know the Chinese have already won .. :D :D

(with that out of the way, some observations)
1. Leh is not a fighter airfield, its traditionally a transport airfield.
2. The hardened shelters are on one side of the runway onlee - as take off is permitted in only one direction
3. Another two Shelters near the ORP are not visible in the picture
4. Too much confidence (or shall I say scare mongering) about the Chinese Dingdong or nodong BMS....
5. The beauty of airfields is that there are always too many to cmpletely knockout forever.. they just keep comin back to life even if you put it out of action for a while..


(Awaiting the mass paratroop waves next)

Incidentally where is the photo of Leh from? which blog?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 21:45

its there in Ajai shukla blog.

still, I would feel more comfy with a hindon or gwalior type spiderweb of taxiways leading to caves and concrete shelters, and visible akash firing pads all around.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 22:52

livefist has put up pix of C130J for india doing 1st flight.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 23:17

top notch in publicity dept these american cos.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SriSri » 05 Oct 2010 23:22

Singha wrote:top notch in publicity dept these american cos.

They do put on a great show..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya G » 05 Oct 2010 23:24



Taking round figure of 30 squadrons, it means IAF is short of 20 pilots per unit. :eek:

Assuming 16 aircraft per unit, the maximum officers assigned to a MKI or Jaguar IB sqn should be 32 pilots. Do we have more planes than pilots to fly them? What gives?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 05 Oct 2010 23:30

the sqn # is much higher than that. it's not fighter pilots only. ;)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2010 23:40

for intimidation plug in 51°28′52″N 046°12′38″E into google earth - engels afb, saratov russia. seems like a dozen bears and a dozen blackjacks parked wingtip to wingtip...

thats the kind of sight one would love to see in afb bidar or yelehanka as home base of a strategic bombing command.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 06 Oct 2010 05:31

Singha wrote:for intimidation plug in 51°28′52″N 046°12′38″E into google earth - engels afb, saratov russia. seems like a dozen bears and a dozen blackjacks parked wingtip to wingtip...


Bur Singha - going by what you said earlier - if the Chinese dial in those coordinates and fire just one DF 21 all those Blackjacks standing out in the open would be dead meat.


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