Indian Military Aviation

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Pratyush » 31 May 2011 13:36

Hmmm...........

Good point................

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya_V » 31 May 2011 13:40

Nikhil T wrote:Russia delivers 5 more MiG-29K fighters


MOSCOW: Indian naval aviation has acquired new teeth with induction of nine MiG-29K carrier-borne fighter jets from Russia with an extended range of 3,000 kms and capable of firing air-to-air and air-to-sea missiles.

The Russian MiG Aircraft Corporation has delivered the second batch of five MiG-29K fighter jets to the navy, to add to its four, for which it has raised the new "Black Panthers" squadron.

India along with Russia, the manufacturer of the naval fighter, are the only countries to have acquired these fighters, which will be deployed on the INS Vikramaditya (former Gorshkov) aircraft carrier, under re-fit in Russia.

The newly acquired Russian carrier-operated MiGs are considered to be far superior to Indian Navy .s current Sea harrier jump jets.

Under the Gorshkov aircraft deal inked between the two countries in 2004, Russia is to supply 12 single-seater MiG-29K fighters and four two-seater MiG-29KUB trainer-cum-combat jets.

According to a MiG release first of four MiG-29Ks and MiG-29KUBs delivered to India have been formally inducted by the Indian Navy's "Black Panthers" squadron in February 2010.

MiG Corporation has also delivered flight simulator and other technical equipment to the Indian Navy.

In March 2010, Russia and India signed another USD 1.5 billion contract on the supplies of 29 additional MiG-29K Fulcrum-D carrier-based fighter jets and the deliveries are scheduled to commence next year, about the time Moscow is expected to deliver retrofitted Gorshkov aircraft carrier after serious delays.


Neat even though we do not have the Gorshkov, shore based Mig-29K's can relive some of the duties of SU-30's to provide air cover to the Navy. Time to check whether Zhuk radar works in case any intact Onion deceides to leave Karachi and strays to close to our assets in the Arabian Sea.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chiragAS » 31 May 2011 17:13

too much whinning :oops: by me so Self deleted...
Last edited by chiragAS on 31 May 2011 17:25, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Surya » 31 May 2011 17:23

I want Singhas troubled adulthood :)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 31 May 2011 17:25

I got this tremendous idea while reading this:
http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=14820

given certain assumptions onlee..
The breakaway fuselage chutes down, it comes with ruggedized wheels.. with all the ammos possible. Now, from an helo, is the new avatar ( actually the movie does show this), where it can get reconfigured.

Now, that would be advanced.. and this is what advanced defence labs in maasa do.. automatic reconfiguration on blown up tanks.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chackojoseph » 31 May 2011 18:05

Since tomorrow you will get some stuff on LCA, day after I will touch upon Darin III and Project Tiger.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 31 May 2011 19:18

a huge missile stock center is also coming up in Pilani Rajasthan.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rakesh » 31 May 2011 19:23

Note that the missile centres are near the new Rambha bases being set up. No 31 Lions Squadron is somewhere in Rajasthan if I am not mistaken. The link I posted is a missile centre in the NE area, where new Sukhoi squadrons are being raised.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 31 May 2011 19:26

the pilani thing came up in context of brahmos.
http://www.brahmos.com/newscenter.php?newsid=114

unclear to me what brahmos does in nagpur, but see this ad
http://www.brahmos.com/download/Brahmos-Ad-Pilani.pdf

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 31 May 2011 19:58

I think the strategic reports needs be very careful in not rubbing salt.. to existing suppliers france and russia, whenever we strike deals with especially masa land. It will have backfire value to some level..so, just go ahead, and do it, and keep quite.. don't say, we are dependent on them yadi yada..

#1 in strategic reporting 101.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 31 May 2011 20:47

I am getting tired of DDMs in general and now international!!!!!!

From:



this:

An IAF officer who has worked closely with Browne says: “His other key commitments will include giving shape to how the Indian [Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft] and AMCA [unmanned combat aircraft] will turn out, and getting the LCA Tejas to full operational status in the shortest possible time.” The officer warns local industry that “HAL is going to find it has an unusually tough customer” in Browne.


Are editors a dead breed?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Karan M » 31 May 2011 21:28

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/165 ... adars.html

Very good news. Thank you Rakesh for posting this as it would have been missed otherwise. The Arudhra is India's first self developed AESA 3D radar, of the medium power capability. Heartening to learn the country can now make such crucial 3D long range radars on its own. Prior public reports noted that the Arudra has twice the range of the 3D Rohini radar (150 km) for the Akash system.

IAF to induct indigenous radars
New Delhi, May 31, (IANS):

India will Friday induct an indigenous medium-power radar at the Naliya air base to enhance its air defence capabilities over Gujarat's airspace, an official said Tuesday.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, will do the honours and induct the 'Arudhra' medium-power radar developed by the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the official said.

The induction would be done on the sidelines of the three-day Gandhinagar-based South Western Air Command (SWAC) commanders’ conference beginning Wednesday.

"This state-of-the-art radar is being inducted towards strengthening the air defence in the Surashtara-Kutch region and forms an important component in the IAF’s plan to achieve network-centric operations," the official said.

With the operationalisation of the Integrated Air Command and Control Systems (IACCS), an automated command and control system of the IAF, the overall air defence of the country would achieve a quantum leap. The Arudhra radar, along with the legacy radars, would all be networked in this system.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 31 May 2011 21:43

I read conflicting newj.. 300km, SAR etc. any more info on this. awesome/congrats lrde.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Karan M » 31 May 2011 22:02

SaiK wrote:I read conflicting newj.. 300km, SAR etc. any more info on this. awesome/congrats lrde.


SAR is for airborne radars, this is a 3D Surveillance radar, but an enhanced one with Multifunction capabilities. There are 3 different projects for Army & AF mentioned as in the report below - 2 AESA - LLTR (150 km), Arudra MPR (300 Km), both ground based radars (albeit, they can be leveraged for naval use as well) and SAR (for UAVs, light aircraft).
These are the next generation of systems beyond Rajendra and Rohini derivatives.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/12/stories ... 010500.htm

Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008

[b]A new generation of multi-function radars, with the capacity to be integrated with any weapon system, are being readied by The Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) for surveillance, early warning, interception guidance and raid assessment.

“Arudra” a medium power radar, a low-level transportable 150 km radar, and a synthetic aperture radar will be developed in about three years, LRDE Director S. Varadarajan told presspersons here on Tuesday.

Mr. Varadarajan explained that while the weapon control radar, Rajendra, was also a multi-function radar “it was totally married with the Akash weapon system”. However, these new radars, including the medium power and low-level transportable radar, will be broad-based so that they can be integrated into any weapons system, he said.

“Our ultimate mission is to extend it for multiple missions and multiple functions. All enabling technologies are available and we are closely tying up with industries,” he added. “The indigenous radar technology is contemporary and Indian manufacturing industries are seeing business in them.”

Mr. Varadarajan said that the country had a huge requirement for radars, especially for deployment in inaccessible terrain where security needs are high. “Today, we have radars that can measure the length of the target up to a metre.”

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 31 May 2011 22:37

cool, now we can really expand akash++ system, and wider coverage of EWS.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Jun 2011 05:06

Prasun Sengupta says "Arudra" MPR is just EL/M-2248 MF-STAR from ELTA? if it is so then the range is around 250km. LRDE has been talking about Arudra for 3 years and am wondering if what Prasun says is true.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nachiket » 01 Jun 2011 05:33

cheenum wrote:Prasun Sengupta says "Arudra" MPR is just EL/M-2248 MF-STAR from ELTA? if it is so then the range is around 250km. LRDE has been talking about Arudra for 3 years and am wondering if what Prasun says is true.

Cheenum, as a rule of thumb, anything chorgupta says should be assumed to be a lie unless confirmed from other sources.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Jun 2011 07:23

nachiket wrote:
cheenum wrote:Prasun Sengupta says "Arudra" MPR is just EL/M-2248 MF-STAR from ELTA? if it is so then the range is around 250km. LRDE has been talking about Arudra for 3 years and am wondering if what Prasun says is true.

Cheenum, as a rule of thumb, anything chorgupta says should be assumed to be a lie unless confirmed from other sources.

That's what I thought, but he has this knack for quoting so many sources and people all together that you feel it might be true. Which is why i checked, LRDE has been talking about this MPR for quite some time, also there was an order for this also last year... goo going DRDO/LRDE.

BTB, I don't care if we got this technology from Israel and even Gambia, as long as we can bulk manufacture and deploy in numbers. Currently around 6 have been manufactured I think. BEL site is sort of silent on this even though LRDE talks about the development.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Jun 2011 08:14

I checked further, Mr Chorgupta seem to have claimed every LRDE RADAR as a foreign one. He has claimed that the Rohini 3-D CAR radar is from Poland. Any update on Swordfish (which according to DRDO-LRDE is a derivative of Greenpine)?

Shiv Arror picked up Mr Chors story and ran a story on his blog, one Mr Ravi who worked in LRDE on the project
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/08/truth-about-rohini-radar-from-prasun-k.html
had come out and refuted every point. see the link above for details...

IAF is also planning to deploy a MPR in Car Nicobar (maybe it is already there)...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 01 Jun 2011 09:18

interesting tidbits from above link: (OTS = off the shelf / COTS)

So this is why "Prasun BS" approach doesnt work. DRDO cannot just buy out technology and call its own. It is useless. You cannot even integrate such technology with own equipment because your own equipment will not at all work with bought out technology designed for other system

this is also why HAL MMR had problems. By time, airborne tests showed ground mapping mode was full of bugs it was not useful to even purchase OTS module for mapping from OEMs since OEM module will not work for MMR

earlier SAAB ERICCSON had offered help which was also refused for same reason because MMR work required too much time to use SAAB Software

---
friend, we are not struggling with AESA. Thanks to rajendra program and project AKASH we are now sufficiently aware of and capable with electronic scanning radars.
What we are to sufficiently grow in is airborne radar for fast moving platform like fighter jets. This is entirely qualitatively different field than system for long range surveillance based on stationary platform (AKASH, Program AD) and even air based surveillance system which are not on fast moving jets of speed like fighter aircraft
fighter jet radar are having stabilisation plus long range multi surveillance modes in compact package with anti clutter measures
This is area where some 8 OEMs are having experience in worldwide


This is where foreign OEM are offering cooperation and not just in AESA systems where we have indeed got sufficient growth capability and experience
---
There is this doubt that it is GreenPine re-branded. Also the range of this radar mentioned on public domain is very confusing..

It is not GreenPine

DRDO worked with Israel to make own radar specific for ABM program.

The range is sufficient for long range gating and acquisition, and yes range specifics is not mentioned publically for LRTR or tom-tomed because it will give a clear idea of system growth capability

-----

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 01 Jun 2011 09:23

the 8 aesa oem's are likely thales, selex-galileo, northrop grumann, raytheon, zhuk, NIIP tikhomirov, ericsson ...who is the last one - JAPAN ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby negi » 01 Jun 2011 09:54

IAI's ELTA EL/M 20XX series.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 01 Jun 2011 09:57

I had forgotten the yehudis! japan does have some early aesa on F2, but american media runs it down as useless. interesting to see if they go local on their proposed 5th gen jet or just import a apg63 type aesa.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby kmkraoind » 02 Jun 2011 15:11

Israeli medium-power radar to be commissioned in Gujarat this week

In keeping with the overall plan to bolster India’s air defence surveillance network, IAF will commission a spanking new Israeli medium-power radar (MPR) at Naliya in Gujarat this week. “This state-of-the-art radar, to be named Arudhra, is being inducted towards strengthening the air defence in the Saurashtra-Kutch region and constitutes an important component in IAF’s plan to achieve network-centric operations,” said an officer.


I am totally confused. Is it Israeli one or an Indian built of basically an Israeli radar.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby manum » 02 Jun 2011 15:54

except the link you posted rest everywhere its made in India

clicky

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 02 Jun 2011 16:08

Prasun or idrw or whatever. Most are interested in vomiting out information to get it out first. What is written, how it is written, etc is not a matter of concern. Some articles actually seem to leave more questions on the table than attempt to resolve old ones.

IMHO, they all should resort to publishing articles on a monthly basis (to start with?). That way, perhaps, there will be some quality control over the urge to publish something.

I thought idrw had moved away from the cut-paste mentality (why republish something, just provide a link to the original sir). But, no, bad habits are back again. The above posted article is actually from ToI:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 687384.cms

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 02 Jun 2011 16:37

I am thinking of awarding IDRW the same status as strategypage, 'not fit for BR'.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 02 Jun 2011 17:07

I guess all depends who is the author.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shrinivasan » 02 Jun 2011 17:57

NRao wrote:The above posted article is actually from ToI:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 687384.cms


Funny thing, TOIlet say Israeli and Economic times Say Indigenous. all maya onlee...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chackojoseph » 02 Jun 2011 18:04


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 02 Jun 2011 19:49

Antonov hands over first upgraded An-32s to India.

Ukrainian design bureau and aerospace manufacturer, Antonov, has handed India five upgraded An-32 transports, the first in a 105-aircraft upgrade deal. The handover to the Indian Air Force took place at Civil Aviation Plant 410 in Kiev, said Antonov.

"The timely implementation of the first phase of this contract was only possible thanks to the efficient and precise work of all participants," said Dmitry Peregudov, general director of Ukrainian arms export agency Ukrspetsexport.

Signed in 2009, the modernisation programme is the largest-ever deal between the country and India, he said. The upgraded An-32s have updated equipment including air collision avoidance systems, ground proximity warning systems, satellite navigation, distance measuring equipment, upgraded radio altimeters, new radars with multifunctional indicators, new oxygen systems and improved crew seats.

The An-32 is similar to the An-26, but has more powerful turboprop engines mounted higher on the wing. It can operate from airfields up to 14,800ft (4,500m) above sea level as well as in hot conditions.

The upgrade will also involve structural modernisation to extend service life to around 2030.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby pragnya » 02 Jun 2011 20:46

Vipul wrote:Antonov hands over first upgraded An-32s to India.

Signed in 2009, the modernisation programme is the largest-ever deal between the country and India, he said. The upgraded An-32s have updated equipment including air collision avoidance systems, ground proximity warning systems, satellite navigation, distance measuring equipment, upgraded radio altimeters, new radars with multifunctional indicators, new oxygen systems and improved crew seats.


The upgrade will also involve structural modernisation to extend service life to around 2030.


can somebody throw more light on these upgrades. are there any engine upgrades?? (the above link does not mention it) the OEM link below speaks deeper upgrade (relevant quotes below) entails payload capacity being increased to 7.5 tons/overhaul life benefits. considering they are going to remain another 2 decades (as per the link) was it not wise to go for a far more deeper upgrades than done??

The AN-32Б-100 is the new variant of the AN-32Б aircraft has been developed in the result of the aircraft modernization. The new modification differs its predecessor by:

take-off weight increased up to 28.5 tons, and payload increased up to 7.5 tons;

installation of modified engine and its overrating mode control system;

mounting of АИ-20Д engines series 5M with increased life to the 1st overhaul, life between overhauls increased up to 4000 hours and assigned service life increased up to 20000 hours.

On the basis of the AN-32 military-transport aircraft is offered the deeper modification the AN-32B-200 variant. Besides the advantages of the AN-32Б-100 the new aircraft obtains:

up-to-date cockpit for two-pilot crew with digital airborne electronic system of the Collins type;

more airdropping-transport possibilities;

additional easy-removable tanks with total fuel capacity up to 3000 l, mounted at the fuselage external side, allow to increase the flight range up to 3200 km;

improved system of on-condition maintenance.


http://www.antonov.com/products/air/tra ... /index.xml

also i remember the past discussion in the "transport aircraft thread" months back where it was mentioned our AN-32s are not 'pressurised' in the cargo compartment. has this been taken care of in this upgrade??

TIA.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 02 Jun 2011 21:05

No, ..
India is also moving towards procuring nine more Aerostat radars to add to the two EL/M-2083 Israeli Aerostats inducted earlier as well as two additional AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) to supplement the first three Israeli Phalcon AWACS bought under a $1.1-billion deal.


is entirely different.. "also", ->in addition.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 03 Jun 2011 05:05

why only 4 combat a/cs for mizo?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ranjithnath » 03 Jun 2011 07:18

^^i was sondering the same.also that they would be stationed at lengpui airport seems to suggest that maybe its just a temporary measure.but then why is there a hurry to construct blast pans and station four aircraft at a civil airport??

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chackojoseph » 03 Jun 2011 09:00


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 03 Jun 2011 09:08

^^^Well, it seems it is a detachment - a flight will be based at the airport. The closest IAF base IMO is the one at Chabua in upper Assam. Aircraft based in this airport can cover and dominate the area to the east and west....also, expect this detachment to draw up SOPs for operations in these areas; also IAF may well prepare infra to move larger formations into the area in case of requirement. Also, we may be sending a message to the chipanda and preparing in advance against any surprises from east.

IMO, this is an excellent move. The eastern sector is slowly but surely evolving as a fortress.

But the question is - what aircraft is being moved into the detachment? CJ, any idea? Thanx.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 03 Jun 2011 09:34

afaik there are no Mig29, Jaguar or M2K units in the east. so either it will be Bisons or MKIs - probably bisons given their smaller footprint and more austere logistical tail.

most likely the chinese aircraft/drones have intruded into these areas already, hence the move....we are hardly ever proactive on these things.

methinks we need a "anchor" airbase for the mizoram-nagaland-barak valley region with a tacit agreement from Dhaka they will allow IAF to overfly from West bengal in times of emergency. kind of like Tezpur or Chandigarh or Pune role.

not sure where this can be - brownfield or greenfield. my childhood memories of Silchar civil airport was it was located on a plateau with jaw dropping ravines at end of runway as my fokker friendship drones up, weaving and ducking among the clouds....me holding tightly to fathers arm.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shrinivasan » 03 Jun 2011 09:46

rohitvats wrote:IMO, this is an excellent move. The eastern sector is slowly but surely evolving as a fortress.
But the question is - what aircraft is being moved into the detachment? CJ, any idea? Thanx.

Indeed an excellent move, Even in Chabua, IAF initially did not send a squadron, slowly increased it form a couple.
Also the Runway is pretty small 1100M only so we probably will start with Bisons. Location of the airfield does not lead itself well to construct large aprons but then we might drill into the mountains and create tunnel based facilities!!!


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