Indian Military Aviation

palash_kol · Post by **palash_kol** » 10 Oct 2010 09:43

Gaur wrote:palash_kol,
Thanks a lot for the effort.
BTW, how did you find the link for the pictures? I could not even find any link provided for hyperlinking purpose.

ADDED LATER:
If anyone did not watch the youtube channel, he is missing out on a lot of incredible video footage. The best of them is of Vayu Shakti:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DItXAZfIhVY

Gaur,
Since I am a Software Developer on Web Application(Dot Net), I know the trick how a photo-slideshow works....

Those photos are great and were not available in the net before...

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Oct 2010 09:54

IAF's Surya Kirans to fly Hawk's

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 10 Oct 2010 10:06

Gaur wrote:palash_kol,
Thanks a lot for the effort.
BTW, how did you find the link for the pictures? I could not even find any link provided for hyperlinking purpose.

It's simple..
1. Right click on picture.
2. Go to properties
You will find the (web)adress of photo there.. simply Copy and paste in new window

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 10 Oct 2010 11:52

Singha wrote:wasnt that the RAF-IAF exercise where raf brought tornadoes.

And invited some American ELINT aircraft!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Oct 2010 13:27

JTull wrote:
Singha wrote:wasnt that the RAF-IAF exercise where raf brought tornadoes.
And invited some American ELINT aircraft!

that was in the UK..this was in India. the RAF brought along some Tornado F3 ADV variants for the exercise.

palash_kol · Post by **palash_kol** » 10 Oct 2010 14:04

dinesha wrote:
Gaur wrote:palash_kol,
Thanks a lot for the effort.
BTW, how did you find the link for the pictures? I could not even find any link provided for hyperlinking purpose.
It's simple..
1. Right click on picture.
2. Go to properties
You will find the (web)adress of photo there.. simply Copy and paste in new window

Not that easy...

Go to the source section....from there you will get the source of he picture...
You have to do this for every picture.....So for large number of pictures.you have to work hard..

For a photo-album...there are many pictures...you cant do view source every time....
But I got the source of all pictures in doing one time view source.

If you can see the source of one picture carefully, you can get the source of other pictures also...Try it..you also can learn the trick gradually...

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 10 Oct 2010 14:33

Kartik wrote:
that was in the UK..this was in India. the RAF brought along some Tornado F3 ADV variants for the exercise.

Thanks Kartik. Just got side tracked by the Su-30 picture.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 10 Oct 2010 14:45

palash_kol,
Thanks for the trick. Tried it myself. Its actually very easy with firefox. Firefox gives the detail of the link with a preview image. But its very time consuming with IE.
Again. Thanks for the links. It would have been very tedious.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 10 Oct 2010 15:47

samsher wrote:
Sumeet wrote:Great interview of IAF chief by Barkha Dutt - NDTV

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/i ... /167850?hp
Great Interveiw indeed. ACM Naik is Kick A$$

Very nice interview...ACM Naik sahab clearly and plainly says its a long overdue program of developing eastern command and then they will look into southern command at later phases of IAF modernization program....I think Indian Media should stop interpreting unnecessary things from development and modernization of IAF facilities and equipment as some reaction to chinese and pakese border hostilities..no need of unnecessary hype...its just a long overdue program onlee...btw..I liked the tremble in her voice when he said "what I've said is what I've said"...

.....its time to cultivate our Media.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 10 Oct 2010 18:03

IMO Another set of rare pics are the two MiG29s with drop tanks under the wings. One of these pics appeared recently in some mag and on the IAF website. I do not recall seeing the late inductee MiG-29s carrying three drop tanks before these were published.

I completely mssed the Hawk with rocket pods tll shiv pointed it out

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 10 Oct 2010 18:47

chackojoseph wrote:IAF's Surya Kirans to fly Hawk's

Now this is sad and blow to HAL efforts, I wonder if they can use LCA Tejas. HAL will start scraping LCA prototypes in few years so instead of scraping them they could give to SKAT. It will be a good publicity stunt too, Tejas will perform hair raising stunts all across the globe.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 10 Oct 2010 19:10

this article never mentions anything about IJT-36 but titles say something else

IAF’s Surya Kirans ditch HAL HJT-36 Sitara for Bae Hawks

IAF’s formation aerobatic team Surya Kirans have taken the first step to switch from the present Kiran MkII aircraft to the ‘Hawks’ Advanced Jet Trainers (AJT) that the Air Force acquired three years ago. “We have initiated the process of changing to the Hawks and we have already

tried our hands on these aircraft,” a senior Surya Kirans officer said here. “The team will take another couple of years or more to completely shift to the Hawks aircraft,” he said.

The Kiran MkII or HJT-16, an indigenous twin-seater trainer, will be with the Surya Kirans for another five years before which the Hawks would be inducted into the team.

The nine-aircraft Surya Kirans is one of the three such teams in the world alongside the Royal Air Force’s and Canadian Air Force’s. It has completed 14 years of existence and was conferred with the status of an IAF fighter squadron in May 2006.

Kiran MkII, a 5-tonne aircraft capable of touching speeds of 695 kmph, can be modified into a fighter aircraft to provide close air support or fulfill counter insurgency roles, carrying two 250-kg bombs, 68mm rockets, besides two integral 7.62 mm guns.

Hawks were bought by India in 2004 under a Rs 6,600 crore deal with the British BAE Systems for 66 aircraft to provide advanced Stage-III flying training to IAF’s rookie pilots before they graduated into full-fledged fighter aces.

The AJTs were formally inducted into the IAF in early 2008 after the first batch of the 24 aircraft bought off-the-shelf from BAE were delivered at Bidar air base in Karnataka, where the Surya Kirans are also currently based.

The remaining 42 Hawks are being produced at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore under a technology transfer.

India has now ordered 57 more Hawks from HAL, of which 40 would go to the IAF and the rest 17 to the Navy. With a maximum take-off weight of 9 tonnes and speeds of 0.84 Mach , Hawks can be used as a combat aircraft, as it can carry 30mm cannon and 3,000-kg of bombs .

http://idrw.org/?p=774

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Oct 2010 21:21

^^^Another instance of BS peddled by Indian 'Defence' Media.....

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Oct 2010 21:21

smpratik wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:IAF's Surya Kirans to fly Hawk's
Now this is sad and blow to HAL efforts, I wonder if they can use LCA Tejas. HAL will start scraping LCA prototypes in few years so instead of scraping them they could give to SKAT. It will be a good publicity stunt too, Tejas will perform hair raising stunts all across the globe.

One doesn't give "scrapped" prototypes to a SKAT team!!!

You an me can always ask for LCA Tejas trainer for SKAT. However, I feel it will be an overkill. For an AT the ideal aircraft is a small nimble aircraft with good TWR.

also the tandem seating would be a departure from the Kiran Mk II

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Oct 2010 21:47

Jagan wrote:IMO Another set of rare pics are the two MiG29s with drop tanks under the wings. One of these pics appeared recently in some mag and on the IAF website. I do not recall seeing the late inductee MiG-29s carrying three drop tanks before these were published.

Wow. Good catch. Missed that. Only one of the 3 pics shows all 3 tanks.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 10 Oct 2010 22:36

indranilroy wrote:also the tandem seating would be a departure from the Kiran Mk II

that dosent matter IMO coz only one pilot flies during the show --- plz correct me if im wrong

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 11 Oct 2010 01:38

^^^ You are right ... The pilots fly solo ... Owing to the side-by-side seating of the Kirans, the planes flying to the left and the right of the leader have controls rigged to different sides of the plane.

Tandem seating simplifies this ... I comment was more on ... what would come to fore with this simplification. Would we see more wonderful merges and joins

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Oct 2010 09:07

Its not IAF's mistake this time. All this while I had a single issue with IAF that they would not begin an Indian project. For IJT-36, IAF backed to hilt. They waited enough and are ready to take it as and when it comes. HAL also had a lot of design help from the Indian LCA project.

Added later...

Please don' start DRDO bashing. They have done wonderfully well with the LCA project.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 11 Oct 2010 10:07

indranilroy wrote:^^^ You are right ... The pilots fly solo ... Owing to the side-by-side seating of the Kirans, the planes flying to the left and the right of the leader have controls rigged to different sides of the plane.

Not exactly. Kiran being a trainer aircraft has dual controls and the control is decided by a switch ( info from panwaala). Surya Kiran aircrafts do operate twin crews (left to the leader, pilot flying in instructor position), Remember the Sagar Pawan crash in Hyderabad where both crew member perished.

Cheers....

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Oct 2010 10:12

neerajb wrote:Not exactly. Kiran being a trainer aircraft has dual controls and the control is decided by a switch ( info from panwaala). Surya Kiran aircrafts do operate twin crews (left to the leader, pilot flying in instructor position), Remember the Sagar Pawan crash in Hyderabad where both crew member perished.Cheers....

Its also flown sand bag solo. We used to fly gliders with sand bag next to us, instead of the instructor.

All you need to do is compensate the weight.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 11 Oct 2010 10:14

chaks, Kiran doesnt need a ballast to be flown solo. Gliders probably require it due to their light weight?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Oct 2010 10:27

Jagan,

I was searching for a particular Kiran crash where it was mentioned that the cadet was flying sand bag solo. Can you dig your warbirds. It could be there.

Mostly ballast is needed to keep CG intact. Yes, Glider being light weight and non powered, makes it difficult to fly (dual seats like Rohini, Setburg and Ardhara). I can speak for the ones I have flown.

Added later...

And you are right. Dual tandem seats need not need ballasts. I just got reminded of Pushpaks.

BTW can someone point out among Rohini, Setburg and Ardhara, which one has a just a single seater version. Its been really very long to remember that.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 11 Oct 2010 12:05

x-post

TOI reports..

It's Sukhoi vs Eurofighter as IAF 'takes on' RAF

Top-notch fighters and other aircraft from India and UK will match their combat skills in the `Indra-Dhanush' joint exercise at Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal later this month. While the British Royal Air Force will deploy their spanking new Eurofighter jets for the exercise slated to begin from October 20, the IAF fleet will be led by the `air dominance' Sukhoi-30MKI fighters.

"The exercise will be held in an AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) environment, with air defence being a major thrust area. We will be fielding different types of our fighters," said a senior official. Both the Indian and British forces are also expected to use their mid-air refuelling aircraft, like the IL-78 and VC-10 tankers, during the combat manoeuvres.

"The aim of the joint exercise is to learn from each other and enhance mutual operational understanding. With every exercise, IAF has gained valuable experience and gained respect as a highly-professional and motivated force," the official added.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Oct 2010 12:13

^^^ They have already extensively BFM'd verus Typhoon and as per RAF chief interview at low level MKI and Typhoon are equals and above 40K feet Typhoon excels over MKI.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 11 Oct 2010 12:40

chackojoseph wrote:Its also flown sand bag solo.

Chako, all I wanted to say was that it is flown solo as well as by two pilots. Infact you can see Kirans flying in both configurations in the same formation. Check this image.

Cheers....

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 11 Oct 2010 12:44

Austin wrote:^^^ They have already extensively BFM'd verus Typhoon and as per RAF chief interview at low level MKI and Typhoon are equals and above 40K feet Typhoon excels over MKI.

I find it surprising when Indians swallow this statement of RAF Chief. May be Eurofighter is better than MKI and may be not. But in any case, do you expect RAF chief to say in public that Eurofighter (the pride of their AF and Nation) is in any way inferior to MKI?

That too when Su-30 and Eurofighter are competitors in export market?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Oct 2010 13:07

neerajb wrote:Chako, all I wanted to say was that it is flown solo as well as by two pilots. Infact you can see Kirans flying in both configurations in the same formation. Check this image.

Cheers....

You are right.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Oct 2010 13:33

Gaur wrote:
Austin wrote:^^^ They have already extensively BFM'd verus Typhoon and as per RAF chief interview at low level MKI and Typhoon are equals and above 40K feet Typhoon excels over MKI.
I find it surprising when Indians swallow this statement of RAF Chief. May be Eurofighter is better than MKI and may be not. But in any case, do you expect RAF chief to say in public that Eurofighter (the pride of their AF and Nation) is in any way inferior to MKI? That too when Su-30 and Eurofighter are competitors in export market?

Typhoon were designed from outset to deal with the Flanker and to better it in air combat , so it does not surprise Typhoon is better. RAF chief is just being straight forward there.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 11 Oct 2010 16:03

Austin wrote:Typhoon were designed from outset to deal with the Flanker and to better it in air combat , so it does not surprise Typhoon is better. RAF chief is just being straight forward there.

Any data to back this claim ??

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 11 Oct 2010 16:08

IAF's Surya Kirans to Soon Fly Hawks

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 11 Oct 2010 16:11

Indian AWACS, RAF Eurofighters at Exercise Indradhanush This Month !

From the Indian Air Force :-

Indo-UK Air Force Exercise Indradhanush will take place at Air Force Station Kalaikunda, in West Midinapur district, West Bengal from 18 Oct 2010 till 03 Nov 2010.

This would be for the first time when RAF (Royal Air Force) Typhoons would be seen in a joint operational scenario in India. The IAF would be participating in this exercise with the Su-30 MKI, Mirage-2000, MiG-27 and Phalcon AWACS. The RAF would also be deploying its E-3D AWACS and VC-10 mid-air refuellers.

According to the Air Marshal KK Nohwar, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Air Command "Indradhanush is an opportunity for both the Air Forces to get an insight into each others operational philosophies and work cultures. This will greatly enhance the understanding of our Air Force to operate in scenario involving state of the art technologies".

In a written brief to the participating aircrew, Air Marshal LK Malhotra, Senior Air Staff Officer of the Eastern Air Command said "This exercise will prove to be a boon for both the nations to fine tune their procedures for multi-national operations, which are likely to happen with greater frequency in future. It will help fine tune tactics for large force engagements and also share each others experience to hone up the skills even more".

During Ex-Indradhanush, specific emphasis will be on exposing more IAF aircrew and controllers to missions like Large Force Engagements, and protection of High Value Aerial Assets -- roles routinely undertaken by RAF as part of coalition/expeditionary force deployment around the globe. It will be for the first time that IAF AWACS will participate in a joint AF exercise. The other novel exposure is expected to be logistical management needed to move large forces for a possible out of area contingency.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 11 Oct 2010 16:29

sigh another needless whinefest

The IAF is correct in not going with the IJT 36 - it really was never on the cards at least till it sees service for a few years.

Reason - the engines

the SKAT slam the engines around at extremes and for that they need a reliable well known engine.

So they have to go with an aircraft with which has served for a long time with those engines.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 11 Oct 2010 16:32

Not exactly. Kiran being a trainer aircraft has dual controls and the control is decided by a switch ( info from panwaala). Surya Kiran aircrafts do operate twin crews (left to the leader, pilot flying in instructor position), Remember the Sagar Pawan crash in Hyderabad where both crew member perished.

Its only certain aircraft in the formation (not all) which have the 2 pilots as during turn they need the other guy to keep it in proper formation.

AnuragK · Post by **AnuragK** » 11 Oct 2010 17:18

American Weapons for China - President Obama Pushes for Sale of C-130s to China

2010-10-11 In a complete reversal of decades of U.S. policy on geopolitics and strategic security, U.S. President Barack Obama has written to the House of Representatives and to the President of the Senate seeking a termination of suspension of Arms Exports to China and to allow the sale of C-130 medium lift transport aircrafts to China. The letter by the President claims that this is in 'American national interest' and is for 'oil spill cleanup' efforts.

The Lockheed C-130 Hercules is a four-engine turboprop military transport aircraft designed and built originally by Lockheed, now Lockheed Martin. Capable of using unprepared runways for takeoffs and landings, the C-130 was originally designed as a troop, medical evacuation, and cargo transport aircraft. The versatile airframe has found uses in a variety of other roles, including as a gunship (AC-130), for airborne assault, search and rescue, scientific research support, weather reconnaissance, aerial refueling, maritime patrol and aerial firefighting. It is the main tactical air-lifter for many military forces worldwide.

Quoted below is the letter by President Obama (Original):
For Immediate Release October 08, 2010
Letter from the President Regarding an Export Waiver for China

TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT
TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE

Dear Madam Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

Pursuant to the authority vested in me by section 902(b)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991 (Public Law 101-246)(the "Act"), and as President of the United States, I hereby report to the Congress that it is in the national interest of the United States to terminate the suspensions under section 902(a)(3) of the Act with respect to the issuance of temporary munitions export licenses for exports to the People's Republic of China insofar as such restrictions pertain to the C-130 cargo aircraft to be used in oil spill response operations at sea. License requirements remain in place for these exports and require review and approval on a case-by-case basis by the United States Government.

Sincerely,
BARACK OBAMA

Source: http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4617

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 11 Oct 2010 19:40

Surya wrote:
Not exactly. Kiran being a trainer aircraft has dual controls and the control is decided by a switch ( info from panwaala). Surya Kiran aircrafts do operate twin crews (left to the leader, pilot flying in instructor position), Remember the Sagar Pawan crash in Hyderabad where both crew member perished.

Its only certain aircraft in the formation (not all) which have the 2 pilots as during turn they need the other guy to keep it in proper formation.

neerajb wrote:Chako, all I wanted to say was that it is flown solo as well as by two pilots. Infact you can see Kirans flying in both configurations in the same formation. Check this image.

Cheers....

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 12 Oct 2010 02:25

High Res pls!

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 12 Oct 2010 06:36

Renovated Gnat Fighter Aircraft unveiled

GNAT Fighter Aircraft, which was once a showpiece of the Indian Air Force, was unveiled at S K Pottekkatt Cultural Centre here on Sunday after renovation. The fighter aircraft was rusting due to lack of proper maintenance. It was renovated by a group of retired personnel of the Indian Air Force.Kozhikode Chapter of the Indian Air Force Association paid homage to Flying Officer Nirmaljith Singh Sekhon, who was honoured with Param Vir Chakra for his fatal defence of the Srinagar Air Base during 1971 Indo-Pak war. A family get-together of the association was also organised in which, 200 members participated. The group of retired IAF personnel came forward to give wings to the Gnat aircraft a few months back when they noticed the showpiece of IAF gathering dust in front of the Cultural Centre.The work was initiated by the Kozhikode chapter of the Air Force Association. According to P M Mani, secretary of the association, it was unendurable for the ex-sentinels to witness a fighter aircraft rusting. Developed by Folland Company in the UK to guard their frontiers, Gnat was later brought to India by the then Defence Minister V K Krishna Menon and the then High Commissioner Vijayalakshmi Pandit. They had bought 88 Gnats Fighter Aircraft.Later, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd started to manufacture and the aircraft won appreciation for the Indian pilots in the Indo-Pak wars in 1965 and 1971.A Sujanapal, president of SK Cultural Centre, presided over the function. N P Abdul Azeez, Zila Sainik Welfare Officer, unveiled the portrait of Nirmaljith Singh. T Radhakrishnan, Group Captain (Rtd), handed over a token amount of `10,000 to the president of SK Cultural Centre. Sgt. Karunan, president of the Kozhikode chapter of Air Force Association, Flight Lieutenant T Ramachandran Nair, warrant officers P V Asokan and Sasi Kumar were also present at the function.

http://idrw.org/?p=792

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 12 Oct 2010 18:36

One doesn't give "scrapped" prototypes to a SKAT team!!!

You an me can always ask for LCA Tejas trainer for SKAT. However, I feel it will be an overkill. For an AT the ideal aircraft is a small nimble aircraft with good TWR.

also the tandem seating would be a departure from the Kiran Mk II

Now I din't meant HAL should give wings, canopies,etc to SKAT. The prototypes i.e 5 PV LCA's to SKAT instead of Hawk. It makes a statement of some sort. USAF and RuAF have F-16's, Su-27's, MiG-29's in their AT's. Now these birds aren't exactly nimble.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 12 Oct 2010 19:00

An aircraft has to be fully operational before it can be considered for an aerobatic team.

Plus the Tejas doesnt really belong to the low airspeed aerobatic regime that the SKAT operates (the Hawk can fit the bill). To do the same manuevers in the Tejas would require more airspace and more time etc.

Assuming India will go for a high speed aero team like the Russian Knights, it will take time for them to practice nd gain the proficiency in this aircraft before they are ready for public display

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 12 Oct 2010 19:10

Pratik Sawerdekar wrote:Now I din't meant HAL should give wings, canopies,etc to SKAT. The prototypes i.e 5 PV LCA's to SKAT instead of Hawk. It makes a statement of some sort. USAF and RuAF have F-16's, Su-27's, MiG-29's in their AT's. Now these birds aren't exactly nimble.

Do note that these airforces do not operate prototype versions of the aircraft as a part of their teams.