Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 24 Oct 2010 10:15

CRamS wrote:Dr. Shiv,

What is the current mood in India as Obama's visit approaches? Is it the euphoric, we are an impending super power tripe, or is there any discussion like that article by Vir Sanghvi, talking about US perfidy? I haven't seen anything posted about what Bakara and Rajdeep etc are focusing on.

The mood will be whichever way GoI or the media spins it.
In the end it will be more line the POTUS!!! is visiting us. Hurray!!!

India and indians love phorein people, and unless I am mistaken we will get to see Obama giving a speech at a joint session of the parliament, where he just might expand on how the US and India were strategic partners in every sense of the word.

And post speech, the netas will be pushing each other to touch ombaba.

Nice and polite things will be said, some business will be conducted, mind you, Ombaba is on a mission to expand US business interests and that'll take precedence - More role of US business, less emphasis on how India can gain etc etc. He will probably let it be known that if the MMRCA goes to an american firm, the US will be 'pleased' and will 'favorably' consider this or that longstanding requirement that India has.

I believe that Ombaba will be itching to say the K word, but will probably be restrained by his advisors.

But that's about it. Ombaba's visit won't throw any surprises.
Last edited by Gagan on 24 Oct 2010 10:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 24 Oct 2010 10:15

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/ramps-cia-infiltration-pakistan-report/
Obama ramping up CIA infiltration of Pakistan: report

Citing unnamed senior officials, the newspaper said that in recent weeks the administration of President Barack Obama had asked Pakistan to allow additional Central Intelligence Agency officers and special operations military trainers to enter the country to intensify pressure on militants.
The requests have so far been rebuffed by Islamabad, which remains extremely reluctant to allow a larger US ground presence in Pakistan, the report said.On Friday, the United States made a new bid to improve its uneasy war partnership with Pakistan by offering a two-billion-dollar arms package but warned it will not tolerate human rights abuses.The five-year assistance plan satisfies a key request of Pakistan's influential military, which assists the US military in Afghanistan and was initially uneasy about a US shift to civilian assistance
.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 24 Oct 2010 10:20

The US warning that it will not tolerate human rights abuses means only one thing.

The pakis will have to make doubly sure no one films any incident of cold blooded murder from now on. No cellphone cameras will be used, or if they are, the videos will be only in the possession of the officers and will be destroyed after they have been shown to the senior officers.

This in no way means that the Pakistani military will stop doing what they have been doing.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 24 Oct 2010 10:24

CRamS wrote:Dr. Shiv,

What is the current mood in India as Obama's visit approaches? Is it the euphoric, we are an impending super power tripe, or is there any discussion like that article by Vir Sanghvi, talking about US perfidy? I haven't seen anything posted about what Bakara and Rajdeep etc are focusing on.


Nobody seems to be bothered. In India only local issues count. Having said that there was a news item yesterday (TV scrolling text) - "No major announcements to coincide with Ombaba visit to India"

None of this really means anything. But I get the feeling that nobody out here is really looking at sucking up. But no hostility either. Bill Clinton's post-presidentship visit was hyped far more. But Ombaba is getting more news coverage than Sri Lanka president's visit. That counts for something I guess. All that my family watch on TV are "Masterchef" and the serial "Mukta mukta mukta"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 24 Oct 2010 10:36

Mediators for talks with Pak

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Mediators-for-talks-with-Pak/Article1-617038.aspx

Ahead of US President Barack Obama’s visit next month, the Indian government appears to be taking a more accommodative stance vis-à-vis Pakistan on the Kashmir dispute.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 24 Oct 2010 10:50

Time for another fatwa against kafir hugging motorma :mrgreen:

Pak legislators want liquor curbs lifted http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 801279.cms
ISLAMABAD: Pakistani legislators are advocating lifting of the ban on sale of liquor in state-run hotels and resorts in a desperate bid to "attract tourists and increase revenue", the Express Tribune reported on Saturday.

In a meeting of the Senate's standing committee on tourism, chairperson of the committee Nilofer Bakhtiar questioned the "wisdom behind imposing the ban on government-owned hotels when the private five-star hotels are allowed to sell liquor".

"We will recommend lifting of a ban on the sale of liquor in government-run hotels and motels, enabling them to overcome financial difficulties," she said.

"If we want to attract maximum number of tourists, we should provide them with a complete set of facilities," she added. None of the committee members objected to the idea as such. Pakistan's tourism industry has been in doldrums for the last several years because of terrorist activities and lack of facilities despite having exquisite tourist spots.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 24 Oct 2010 11:04



As humiliating as it is, India begging to talk to the TSP puppet separatist scum, and acknowledging the need to accomodate TSP, neverthless, as long as nothing is given away, its better than stone-pelting & shooting. This tri-partite crap gets me worried. Going from past experience, MMS's goal is joint love-making. To his "South Asian" mindset, there is nothing better. And believe me, this is what those WKK clowns will recommend. Now, the optimist in me hopes that the chai biskoot session with the KMs will go on for a while and wears down the separatist pigs. Of course, the wild card is that at some point when TSP percieves that they are loosing ground, they will up the ante.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 24 Oct 2010 14:19

Talking through their teeth - Edit in DT
The US has experienced an unreliable Pakistani military when, during Musharraf’s time, US military aid was used to amass weapons that had nothing to do with counter-insurgency but had everything to do with stockpiling against India. The Pakistani military can be sure that this aid will be subject to extremely close scrutiny and audit. . . . It is clear to the US that the military’s definition of national interest has been keeping the Afghan Taliban intact until the last US soldier has left Afghanistan. The US has not backtracked during this session on its insistence on an offensive in NW. It does not seem likely that Pakistan will abandon its Afghan cohorts whom it may like to have represented in a post-US withdrawal Afghan dispensation. The Pakistani military has staked too much on strategic depth in Afghanistan and if the US tries to keep Pakistan out of any Afghan talks, the Pakistani military is likely to use its leverage through the Afghan Taliban, irrespective of diplomacy and dialogue. . . .The US is aware of the fact that in this war on terror, Pakistan has been flexing its muscles to beat back the TTP. The US’s real enemy, however, is still operational and the US is not happy. . . . We have no choice therefore but to rely on China, a reliable friend and one that will not backtrack on Washington’s insistence.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Arjun » 24 Oct 2010 14:27

Not sure if this was posted earlier...another confirmation of Pakis' desparate whining for promotion from Af-Pak to Indo-Pak: Af-Pak or Indo-Pak?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Venkarl » 24 Oct 2010 15:19

In the last century, for USA, it was Pak>Ind...post 9/11 Pak=Ind {and is still in debate}...what next?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 24 Oct 2010 16:44

Musharraf 'fit to be murdered', says 'fatwa'

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Musharraf-fit-to-be-murdered-says-fatwa/articleshow/6803152.cms

Adding to woes of Pakistan's former military ruler Pervez Musharraf, a group of religious scholars has issued a 'fatwa' declaring him "fit to be murdered" while a petition filed in the Supreme Court has sought registration of a high treason case against him.

The fatwa or edict was issued by a group of politicians and religious scholars during a meeting in Quetta on Saturday, declaring Musharraf, who is preparing to return to Pakistani political arena, 'wajibul qatal' (fit to be murdered)



Shubhan Allah!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 24 Oct 2010 17:02

abhishek_sharma wrote:Musharraf 'fit to be murdered', says 'fatwa'

More of the same from DT
The Jamaat-e-Islami, Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, Majlis Wahdat Muslimeen Pakistan, Shia Ulema Council Balochistan, Tanzeem-e-Islam Pakistan, JUI-S and religious scholars participated in the conference.

All those who once stood behind the PA and particularly Gen. Musharraf !

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby JE Menon » 24 Oct 2010 17:04

A message from the chaps in khaki possibly SS? What's your take? Looks to me like a shot across the bows from the chaps who fear a potential constituency loss... or image dilution.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 24 Oct 2010 17:05

Backbone of terrorists broken: CJCSC

Has the CJCSC's son-in-law recovered from his abductors ? I haven't seen any news on this issue for a long time.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 24 Oct 2010 17:13

JE Menon wrote:A message from the chaps in khaki possibly SS? What's your take? Looks to me like a shot across the bows from the chaps who fear a potential constituency loss... or image dilution.

JEM, there is a divide between the Islamists and the top Generals, IMO, on certain issues, the chief issue being the pursuit by the State of 'bad Taliban' who are not at all 'bad' in the books of JI, JUI-F & JUI-S. This does not mean that these warring parties wouldn't come together when a 'worthy cause' crops up, just like Kayani's reference to 'strategic assets' and the 'brotherly affections' shown to the 'bad TTP' when they vowed to fight India after 26/11. Sometimes, love making goes brutally physical but things will normalize.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 24 Oct 2010 17:51

23 terrorists enter Islamabad, Lahore to attack police & buildings
As many as 23 terrorists have entered Islamabad and Lahore to attack senior police officers, bureaucrats and important buildings while Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has also planned attacks on religious leaders and activists of two particular sects and their business interests.

According to intelligence reports, 23 terrorists (Taliban) had been dispatched from the Tribal Areas, and report suggested they could have reached the federal and provincial capitals.

Another intelligence report revealed that the TTP extremists had planned attacks on the clerics of Sunni (Brelvi) and Shia sects, their markets and business centres across the province.


Normally, such intelligence reports have been found to be accurate in Pakistan. So, let's hope that the score remains perfect once again.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 24 Oct 2010 18:51

Self Deleted. Posted in wrong thread.
Last edited by arun on 24 Oct 2010 19:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 24 Oct 2010 19:02

The great thing about these jihadi tanzeems is that they are as slimy as lizards. Any form of association with them is going to have a blowback sooner or later. True to form, even when these guys were allies of the fauj, they've tried to expand the space around themselves in the paki society. And the moment they think they have a momentum going they'll bite the hand that's nurtured them to this size.
And in the interim the faujis have had to take care of and tolerate one outrageous act of stupidity after the other from them. Now if you ever try and stop them, some faction is going to go rouge and come afrer your musharraf- or as the earstwhile dictator Gen. Musharraf is discovering.
He is now wajib-e-qatal partly because he interfered with their lal masjid porgorm.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 24 Oct 2010 20:57

UN controlled agency IRIN reporting that in the commercial capital of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Karachi, the Mohajir ethno-linguistic group is preventing the Pashtun / Pathan ethno-linguistic group, and vice versa, from being provided medical care in hospitals:

PAKISTAN: Sectarianism infects hospital wards

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Sen_K » 24 Oct 2010 22:41

And Bollywood welcomes one more "star" from Pakiland - Yawn

“Look at the numbers,” discusses Pravin on the set. “In all of India’s massive population Bollywood has just come up with one Ranbir Kapoor. No one watches Imran (Khan), Neil Nitin flopped and the rest don’t even register. Bollywood needs fresh faces. India is all about numbers and as long as they roll no one cares where he’s from.”

The ground reality is that work is simpler in India where professional systems are in place, each one working towards propelling things up and ahead. And any experience India can give to our industry via our stars will equate to a gradual implementation and evolution. It can only be brought around by a new generation, eager to learn and apply back home, while overcoming divisive factors.

There is no room for political divides when it comes to liberal arts and Pakistan needs to start thinking numbers, too. India is closer to home than many people would like and artistes working there should be considered no different than the millions of expatriates working all over the world. Their success in India should be enjoyed, rejoiced and appreciated.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Pranav » 24 Oct 2010 22:50

In Pakistan, clearing out the Taliban
By HDS Greenway - GlobalPost, 24 Oct 2010

Lt. Gen. Asif Yaseen Malik is just what you would expect: ram-rod straight, impeccable English, pressed uniform with knife-edged creases and a no-nonsense manner. He has served his country from the 19,000 foot heights of the Siachen Glacier, along the disputed Kashmir Line of Control, to the heat-hazed lowlands of the Punjab, with some military studies in the United States thrown in. His operational area stretches from the high country where the Hindu Kush and the Himalayas come together to the border with Baluchistan Province.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/paki ... waziristan



Pakistan is nursing an injured national pride
By Dean Nelson, Telegraph. 2 Sep 2010

.... it would be impossible to mistake a Pakistan Army officer. Their ramrod posture, crisply ironed polo T shirts, or blazers and ties mark them out as military men, and often Sandhurst at that.

I first met Pakistani Army officers in 1990 when I stayed at an old colonial cottage belonging to the North West Frontier Province’s Public Work’s Department in Thandiani, in the Himalayan foothills. They were staying in the adjoining cottage, drinking whisky and firing Kalashnikovs at the empties in the garden. They were, despite their seniors’ propensity to overthrow elected governments, great fun.

They spoke perfect English in clipped accents and spoke about their polo triumphs while their regimental bagpipe band entertained them.


Why do western journalists swoon over Paki army types? "Ram-rod" seems to be a favorite word.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Anujan » 24 Oct 2010 23:03

SSridhar wrote:Backbone of terrorists broken: CJCSC

Has the CJCSC's son-in-law recovered from his abductors ? I haven't seen any news on this issue for a long time.


SSridhar-ji This is the new CJCSCC Khalid Shameem Wynne, the old one (whose son-in-law was goatnapped) has retired.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby chetak » 24 Oct 2010 23:04

Pranav wrote:Why do western journalists swoon over Paki army types?



Maybe some of them have certain proclivities ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Pranav » 24 Oct 2010 23:16

chetak wrote:
Pranav wrote:Why do western journalists swoon over Paki army types?



Maybe some of them have certain proclivities ?


Apparently, homosexuality is "almost compulsory" in the BBC, at least. See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 990013.ece

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby chetak » 24 Oct 2010 23:27

Pranav wrote: quote="chetak" quote="Pranav"
Why do western journalists swoon over Paki army types?


Maybe some of them have certain proclivities ?

Apparently, homosexuality is "almost compulsory" in the BBC, at least. See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 990013.ece


Right!

That explains the "ramrod". :wink:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Fidel Guevara » 24 Oct 2010 23:30

Arjun wrote:Not sure if this was posted earlier...another confirmation of Pakis' desparate whining for promotion from Af-Pak to Indo-Pak: Af-Pak or Indo-Pak?


From the Yawn article
But the week’s strategic dialogue between Pakistan and the US was to some extent hijacked by Islamabad — and Rawalpindi’s — concerns about New Delhi.


If more evidence is needed about the Pakis openly admitting that the TSPA is as involved in politics as the democratically elected leaders!

Image

Look at Kiyani - Hillary's speech must be really boriiiiiing...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rahul M » 24 Oct 2010 23:38

CRamS wrote:Dr. Shiv,

What is the current mood in India as Obama's visit approaches? Is it the euphoric, we are an impending super power tripe, or is there any discussion like that article by Vir Sanghvi, talking about US perfidy? I haven't seen anything posted about what Bakara and Rajdeep etc are focusing on.

although not directed at me, I haven't seen anything about ombaba's visit in the media so far.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Sudip » 24 Oct 2010 23:40

Pakistan's Army Flexes Its Muscles

Beggars, once a rarity, are now a common sight. Parents are pulling their children out of school because they can no longer afford the fees, even for government-run institutions.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby svinayak » 24 Oct 2010 23:48

Rahul M wrote:
although not directed at me, I haven't seen anything about ombaba's visit in the media so far.

TV or the editorial will be preparing the media industry how to project the image. Keep a watch on them and find out what is the instructions to the media desk.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 25 Oct 2010 04:26

Anujan wrote:This is the new CJCSCC Khalid Shameem Wynne, the old one (whose son-in-law was goatnapped) has retired.

Thanks. Missed that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 25 Oct 2010 05:05

Kaplan on Jinnah
http://cominganarchy.com/2010/10/24/kaplan-on-jinnah/

In Pakistan, I detected three schools of thought about Jinnah. The first was the official one, which declared him a great twentieth-century hero of Muslim rights, in the vein of Turkey’s Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. The second, shared by a few brave Pakistanis and more people in the West, was that Jinnah was a vain man and a failure who unwittingly gave birth to a monstrosity of a nation that was, in turn, linked to much of the violence in Afghanistan in recent decades. The third view, though, was the most interesting, and in its way the most subversive, as well as the most informed.
In this view, Jinnah was a complex man of India, a London-Bombay intellectual, the son of a merchant from Gujarat and a Parsee from Karachi. Like Ataturk, who had grown up amid the nourishing cosmopolitan influences of Salonika (rather than amid the narrower Islamic world of Anatolia which he came to rule), Jinnah was the product of a sophisticated cultural environment, that of Greater India, and thus was at heart a secularist. Yet he believed his Muslim state was needed to protect a minority from uncertain majority rule. As misguided and politically opportunistic as this might have been, it made room for a state that, though composed mostly of Muslims, might still maintain a secular spirit, much like Ataturk’s Turkey. It would be informed by Muslim values without being necessarily ruled by Islamic law
As I said, this view was the most subversive because it directly challenged what the ruling class in Islamabad—the generals and the politicians both—had turned the country into. Because Jinnah died in 1948, soon after Pakistan’s birth, it is impossible to know what the country might have evolved into had he lived longer. But one can argue that key principles of the Quaid-i-Azam have been violated. Rather than a state with a moderate sensibility, Pakistan maintained a suffocating Islamic milieu in which extremism was rewarded with political concessions, while the military and political parties jockeyed for position with one another. Alcohol was banned and girls’ schools in the rural areas were burned down. And as for autonomy, that was a myth that my meetings in Baluchistan and Sindh had made clear.This seems to be as a very accurate description of Jinnah’s legacy, and a simple restatement of what some educated Pakistanis have shared with me. I don’t have any comment further than that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 25 Oct 2010 05:37

The Preception of Poak regarding aid from O
US renews bonds with Pakistan army ( how affectaionate )
WASHINGTON, Oct 24: When it crafted a giant civilian aid plan for Pakistan last year, the United States proclaimed a turning point in a troubled relationship, with US money henceforth to serve the cause of democracy. On Friday, in the wake of the latest tensions between the war partners, President Barack Obama's administration announced it would seek another two billion dollars in aid for Pakistan — this time, destined for the military. The Obama administration has repeatedly pledged support for civilian rule in Pakistan, which was restored in 2008, and said Friday it would bar assistance from several military units accused of human rights abuses. But the latest aid package shows that the United States is also keen to meet the wish-lists of the army, which has long been a major player in Pakistan and provides vital logistical support for forces in Afghanistan. Teresita Schaffer, a former US diplomat who has served in Islamabad, said the United States faced a balancing act between working with the military and supporting civilian institutions. “The US routinely has trouble figuring out exactly where that line belongs and how to stay on the right side of things,” said Schaffer, director of the South Asia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
“Partly that's because the military in Pakistan is a can-do institution, much more so than the civilians,” she said.
“This is partly theatrics, but we as a people are magnetically drawn to an institution and a leader who says, 'Yeah, I can help you with what you really want to get done,'” she said. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced the military package during the two nations' latest Strategic Dialogue, where Pakistan's public face was Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi. But as in previous talks, Pakistan's army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, also turned up in Washington and held meetings behind closed doors.
Kayani was unusually public last year in his criticism of Washington's five-year, 7.5 billion-dollar civilian aid package, calling it undue foreign interference.



http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/ne ... p?id=18165

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 25 Oct 2010 05:55

http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/ne ... p?id=18166
Pakistan's nukes safe, says Indian Army Chief

Indian Army Chief General V.K Singh has said that the nuclear assets of Pakistan are secured properly and there are no threats to the nuclear weapons.
After a controversial statement a few days ago, the Indian Army Chief has gone the other way round by declaring the nukes of Pakistan safe and without any threats. He also said that a lot of concerns prevail all around the world regarding their safety and security but the concerns lack substance. General Singh said that Pakistan has made unusual arrangements for the security of these weapons upon global concerns.
Earlier General V.K.Singh had said, a few days ago, that Pakistan is a threat to India’s security while Pakistan had termed this statement as irrational, illogical and aggressive

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby ArmenT » 25 Oct 2010 05:58

Paki lunacy reaching new heights. Predictably, mango abdul is blaming flooding on India
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9110766.stm
I asked him whether he believed money had in the past been embezzled instead of going into flood prevention projects, as many have suggested. And who, generally, he blamed for the lack of preparedness.

His response was surprising.

"You know, we've never had so much water come down the Kabul River (from Afghanistan) and flow into the Indus?" he said. "Strange, isn't it?"

I took a moment to digest the question, then asked if he was trying to suggest Afghanistan or America had something to do with the floods.

He paused for a moment. "India," he said, without a hint of irony.

Slightly taken aback by what this educated and erudite man was saying, I suggested that there had been the highest rainfall ever recorded in Pakistan, and surely that could not have been caused by India.

He scoffed: "Don't you know they have the technology to create artificial clouds and send them across the border?" :eek:

I decided to leave the discussion at that.


The article contains so many gems, I think it ought to be a sticky in the beginning of this thread, as an "understanding TSP mindset" type article.
Blame culture
But in Pakistan, there does seem to be a bogeyman for every one of its multitude of crises.
That often, of course, diverts attention from the underlying problems and serves to shield those with true responsibility.
Take the huge cricket scandal this year in which Pakistani players were accused of cheating in return for large sums of money.
Initially, there was shock and a sense of shame, but very soon Pakistani politicians and diplomats were accusing the British press, and, yes, the Indians, of a conspiracy to destroy Pakistani cricket.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SureshP » 25 Oct 2010 06:50

Clueless on Kashmir

Updated at Monday, October 25, 2010

Asif Ezdi

The writer is a former member of the Pakistan Foreign Service.

In his address to the nation on October 17, which was largely devoted to the institutional relationship between the executive and the judiciary, Gilani also sought to enlighten the nation on some of the feats accomplished by the PPP-led government in different fields. One such area where he claimed kudos was its Kashmir policy, which Gilani credited with no less than four achievements.
First, Gilani asserted, the world community was for the first time beginning to acknowledge, “due to our efforts”, that Kashmir is a disputed territory. Second, it was a “big success for us” that the European Parliament had organised “tripartite talks” on the Kashmir issue. Third, the Indian delegate at this “world forum” had acknowledged that the people of Occupied Kashmir had been targeted by the Indian army. Fourth, “our proposal” to the European Parliament to find a solution to this dispute with the participation of the UN and OIC had been accepted.

The fact is that none of the claims made by Gilani has even a remote relationship with reality.
First, it is not the “first time” that Kashmir has been recognised internationally as a disputed territory. That has always been the case. If it had not been so, Delhi would not be screaming day in and day out that it is an inalienable part of India. Second, the recent reactivation of the freedom movement is in no way owed to anything done by Pakistan but to the Kashmiris themselves.
Third, the “tripartite talks” on Kashmir organised by the European Parliament were no more than a free-wheeling discussion (a “hearing”) in which a few MEPs, some Kashmiri representatives and a couple of political analysts from Pakistan and India took part. There were no “delegates” at this meeting, simply speakers expressing their own views. The Indian case was presented by a retired Indian general, who denied “reports” of deaths or human rights violations by the Indian army, though he conceded that “fake encounters” were staged to kill Kashmiris. Fourth, the claim made by Gilani that “our proposal” to find a solution to the Kashmir dispute with the participation of the UN and OIC had been accepted by the European Parliament, mainly a self-important talking shop with little international influence, is bizarre beyond belief. No such proposal has ever been made by Pakistan and its “acceptance” by a couple of MEPs will not bring a solution any nearer, contrary to what Gilani seems to think.
All this would be laughable,
were it not about as serious a matter as Kashmir. It shows how totally clueless Gilani is on this issue. It is also shocking that a statement on Pakistan’s Kashmir policy should have been included by the Prime Minister in his speech simply on the basis of a briefing given verbally by the AJK prime minister on his meetings at the European Parliament, without obtaining inputs from the Foreign Ministry.
Sardar Attique had reportedly told Gilani a day earlier that “the adoption of the Kashmir dispute as an international issue by the European Parliament after 63 years was the greatest achievement of the Pakistan government on the foreign affairs front.” Fortunately, this is not true. Pakistan has had some real foreign policy successes in the past. What Attique should have said is that the European Parliament’s hearing on Kashmir was his biggest achievement. Few would quarrel with that.
Attique also reportedly expressed his gratitude to Gilani for highlighting Indian atrocities against the Kashmiris before the international community. The AJK prime minister evidently knows something about what the public has been kept in the dark by this government. He should share this information with the nation. As far as ordinary Pakistanis know, the government has done very little to generate international pressure on India to stop its brutalities in Kashmir.
The government is right in emphasising that the “Quit Jammu and Kashmir” movement is purely indigenous in nature and has not been instigated externally. But that should not stop it from raising the issue more vigorously in international fora and bilaterally with key countries. The governments of the leading western countries, which are otherwise quick to denounce perceived human rights abuse, have chosen to close their eyes to the Indian atrocities, because they think it suits their strategic and economic interests. Pakistan must do more to open their eyes.
On Kashmir, as on so much else, the government lacks a clear vision or goal. The result is a policy muddle. Gilani claimed in his speech that the PPP is the heir to Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s legacy on Kashmir. Actually, it is largely following in Musharraf’s footsteps. Bhutto maintained Pakistan’s stand even after the country’s military defeat in 1971. But in 2004, Musharraf diluted that when he announced his decision to pursue a Kashmir settlement “setting aside” the UN Security Council resolutions.
From that year, Pakistan also stopped making any reference in the UN and other international fora to these resolutions and to a UN-mandated plebiscite in Kashmir. Even the reference to the right to self-determination was dropped in the annual statement in the general debate in the UN after 2005, while Musharraf pursued his “out-of-the-box” solution through a back-channel dialogue with India. In his two statements in the UN General Assembly in 2008 and 2009, Zardari went even further than Musharraf in playing down the Kashmir issue.
Against this background, it is to be welcomed that in his statement at the UN general assembly last month the foreign minister recalled the commitment under the UN security council resolutions to resolve the Kashmir issue through a plebiscite under UN auspices. The Indian foreign minister responded by calling off an “almost-scheduled” meeting with Qureshi. Delhi has since then also conveyed to Pakistan that Qureshi’s visit to India, which was earlier expected to take place towards the end of the year, would now have to be rescheduled for the first quarter of 2011. I am confident that the Pakistani nation will survive these terrible shocks.
The present government has been repeatedly urging Washington to facilitate or even mediate a Kashmir settlement. This request was repeated by Qureshi at last week’s strategic dialogue with Washington and by Gilani in a meeting with the press last Friday. These pleas have been publicly rejected by Washington. Privately, the US has been suggesting discreetly that Pakistan should return to the back channel negotiations started under Musharraf.
Our government does not seem to realise that if there were ever to be a Camp David or Dayton on Kashmir, an eventual settlement would look very much like the deal that Musharraf and Manmohan were negotiating, not the azadi that the people of Kashmir are struggling for.


Therefore, instead of calling for US mediation, Pakistan should be focusing its efforts presently on generating international pressure on India to end its repression in Occupied Kashmir, so as to create more space for the azadi movement.

Washington has so far scrupulously avoided any comment on Indian brutalities in Kashmir that could displease Delhi. The US lead has been followed by other Western countries. What is more, US officials have now started referring to Kashmir as an internal matter of India. Under Secretary of State Burns said so in an interview with an Indian newspaper on September 25. US Ambassador to India Roemer said the same thing in a TV interview on October 21. But curiously, there has been no official reaction from Pakistan to these outrageous statements.

The Indians would now expect Obama to say something similar on his visit to India next week.

Pakistan must therefore move quickly to convey its concerns. This should be done in a letter from Gilani to Obama reminding him of his remarks on Kashmir in October 2008 on the importance of resolving the Kashmir issue and urging him to press Manmohan to stop human rights abuses in the occupied territory. But please, no request for US mediation. Washington is not a neutral party and has in any case made it clear that it does not wish to play such a role.


http://beta.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=11799&Cat=9

Altair
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Altair » 25 Oct 2010 07:10

ArmenT wrote:Paki lunacy reaching new heights. Predictably, mango abdul is blaming flooding on India
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9110766.stm

He scoffed: "Don't you know they have the technology to create artificial clouds and send them across the border?" :eek:

I decided to leave the discussion at that.


I heard in another forum,people often hide,spit and fire bullets towards clouds when some clouds appear kaffir shape.I never believed it but I am inclined to change my perception of that!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Vivek_A » 25 Oct 2010 07:33

N. Waziristan string attached to military aid package
By Anwar Iqbal
Monday, 25 Oct, 2010

WASHINGTON: No conditions were attached to the $2 billion military aid package the United States announced for Pakistan this weekend but there are expectations that require Islamabad to expedite its effort to dislodge militants from North Waziristan.

Diplomatic sources told Dawn that during the strategic dialogue, which concluded on Friday, the Americans accepted Pakistan’s position that it did not have enough troops or resources to launch a major offensive in North Waziristan, as Washington demands.

Pakistan, in return, agreed to increase pressure on the militants hiding in the tribal belt by carrying out more targeted operations at various militant hideouts inside the area, the sources said.

US-trained special operations units of the Pakistani army will conduct those operations but there will be no US participation.

But during the talks, the United States made it obvious that even though it had attached no conditions to the package, it retained various options to halt or reduce aid if its expectations were not met. :rotfl:

At a joint news conference with Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, she also acknowledged that Pakistan and the US still had differences with each other. “We are two different countries. We have two different traditions. We have two different histories. That does not mean we’re going to agree on everything, but it means, as you do with friends, that you don’t jump to conclusions,” she said,

Mr Qureshi, however, sounded a little more frustrated with the lack of trust he experienced during this visit to Washington.

“We do not know what greater evidence to offer than the blood of our people,” said Mr Qureshi while referring to US media reports that Pakistan was not doing enough to fight the militants.

And the unresolved issues that both Mr Qureshi and Secretary Clinton referred to include Pakistan’s desire to acquire civilian nuclear technology from the United States as it is offering to India.

Secretary Clinton acknowledged that the issue was discussed but the Americans apparently refused to accommodate Pakistan’s request.

The United States also refused to get involved in resolving the Kashmir dispute and advised Pakistan to discuss the issue directly with India. President Barack Obama had earlier promised to resolve the Kashmir dispute but he changed his position apparently under Indian pressure. Political observers in Washington warn that the Nov 2 mid-term polls can also jeopardise the Obama administration’s aid package for Pakistan.
Last edited by Vivek_A on 25 Oct 2010 07:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Mauli » 25 Oct 2010 07:35

Indian scholar Zakir Naik hires sex fame PR firm

http://www.thenews.com.pk/21-10-2010/World/11134.htm

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shravan » 25 Oct 2010 08:08

Blast kills six at Baba Farid’s Shrine in Pakpattan

LAHORE: A bomb exploded at the eastern gate of the Baba Farid Shrine in Pakpattan early Monday morning, killing at least six people and injuring several others.

arun
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 25 Oct 2010 08:24

^^^ And so the week starts in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan with the proverbial bang by way of a demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan outside a Muslim shrine.

For a country claimed to have been created as a safe haven for the Muslims of the Indian Sub-Continent, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is certainly adept at coming with minor differences in the practice of Islam to fuel Muslim on Muslim violence :roll: .

Meanwhile a URL from the BBC for the story since you had posted none:

Four killed by Sufi shrine bomb in Pakistan's Punjab


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