Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby sum » 31 Oct 2010 21:05

More RAA conspiracy to defame the pure people :(( :(( :
Butt and Amir's appeals dismissed


Salman Butt and Mohammad Amir remain provisionally suspended by the ICC on charges of spot-fixing after their appeals were rejected during a two-day hearing in Dubai.

Michael Beloff, the ICC code of conduct commissioner who chaired the hearing, said the players - who cannot appeal this verdict - will now appear before an independent anti-corruption tribunal that will look into the actual charges and give a verdict on whether the players are innocent or guilty.

"Having considered every aspect of the case I dismiss their appeals and they remain suspended," Beloff told reporters outside ICC headquarters. "The players have denied the charges, but they will remain suspended before a code of conduct commission is formed to hear the case.

"It was not up to me to decide whether they committed any crime, the commission will establish their guilt and if they are found guilty then they will be given punishment as per the ICC code of conduct."

There is no time limit for when the tribunal will be set up, the ICC saying in a statement only that it will happen in "due course." The ongoing criminal case against the players in the UK - where Scotland Yard has handed over evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service - is likely to factor into any decision on when the hearing happens.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby svinayak » 31 Oct 2010 21:54

Gagan wrote: Theo ji,

Aliji's question is not new. Many people believe that Hinduism is inherently week and that is why it couldn't do a Spain to Islam/Muslims. They are probably right. They also think India is a hindu country and think that Indian govt, law-and-order are hindu. They view the minority appeasement as the weakness of a Hindu state...
Exactly!
And this is the crux of the problem isn't it?
For the pakistanis, Pakistan == Islam and India == Hindu. To accept otherwise, to accept the fact that there are more muslims in India, who are more prosperous than those in Pakistan, and who are more comfortable with the idea of India than the poison that the wahabi/salafi virus doing the rounds in Pakistan, to accept this would be tantamount to accepting that the two nation theory is wrong.

Actually Pakistan is also a Hindu country since that is the center of the Hindu/India/Sindhu civilization for more than 5000 years. That fact will never change and Hindus will eventually worship in that region and get connected.
So this notion that Pakistan as a region is Islam will never be true
It will be Hindu land for the next 5000 years only.
It is a holy land for the Hindus and will be eternal.
Last edited by svinayak on 01 Nov 2010 02:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RajeshA » 31 Oct 2010 22:01

Acharya wrote:
Actually Pakistan is also a Hindu country since that is the center of the Hindu/India/Sindhu civilization for more than 5000 years. That fact will never change and Hindus will eventually worship in that region and get connected.
So this notion that Pakistan as a region is Islam will never be true


Sorry garu,
but I'd rather have a mud hut on the ground, than a castle in the air.

We have no strategy on reclaiming Pakistani land for the Hindus, and even if we had, nobody in India has the will or the capacity to do it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby svinayak » 31 Oct 2010 22:02

Pulikeshi wrote:
Ali wrote:I agree that Hindu ethos have survived for centuries, but it seems like Hinduism is constantly under theological invasion even in relatively peaceful time and is shrinking. Again this is just my opinion without any scientific research so feel free to correct me if I am wrong. So if I were a Hindu, I would have been a little worried about my grandchildren getting forcefully converted to something else, especially since this has already happened to my ancestors once.


Ironically, I tend to agree with you, but the 'Bazaar' always appears weaker than the 'Cathedral'.
Yet, the former is more well equipped to absorb and assimilate, the latter eventually
does, but expends a lot more entropy.
None of this is in some sense relevant to the thread at hand, so hope you stick around
Perhaps there is an opportunity to learn and keep an open mind.


That is part of Hinduism which may appear to disappear and that is what Moguls thought.
It is about the media coverage and awareness and image in the modern times which promotes such things.
The number of Hindus have increased and is the highest at anytime in History. Also more number of people have adopted Hindu practice in the west than anytime in the past. Hinduism will become localized and sampradaya from different continents will evolve in the future.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby svinayak » 31 Oct 2010 22:03

RajeshA wrote:
Sorry garu,
but I'd rather have a mud hut on the ground, than a castle in the air.

We have no strategy on reclaiming Pakistani land for the Hindus, and even if we had, nobody in India has the will or the capacity to do it.

i cant discuss such things in the open forum. These are not something put on a plan and executed.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby JwalaMukhi » 31 Oct 2010 22:19

KLNMurthy wrote: Not Islamic influence, but acutal, reconverted Muslims. Harihara and Bukka, the founders of Vijayanagar, were nobles of the Kakatiya empire who were captured by Allauddin Khilji and forcibly converted to Islam.

OT, my last post on this. What you say is correct. Islamic influence is a euphemistic term for "forcible conversion", which applies for most (not all) of the cases historically. However, just used the term: influence, because that spell was cured by Vidyaranya as you point out. The palegar of chitradurga madakari nayak's progeny also were forcible converted. There are many other similar cases where spell couldn't be cured. Forcible conversion is standard modus operandi, nothing new there.

The pakis and others, who tout that they recognized their roots feel that they are doing a favour to hindus by acknowledging their roots. Sorry, it is for their own betterment, that they had the courage and honesty to face it, and is favour to themselves.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Singha » 31 Oct 2010 23:07

BBC

Afghan President Karzai criticises US-Russia drugs raid

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has criticised the first joint operation by Russian and US agents to destroy drug laboratories in his country.

Mr Karzai said he had not been informed of Russia's participation - a sensitive issue in Afghanistan ever since the Soviet occupation ended 21 years ago.

He called it a violation of Afghan sovereignty and international law.

Russia said more than a tonne of heroin and opium, with a street value of $250m (£157m), was destroyed in the raid.

Officials in Moscow have in the past accused coalition forces in Afghanistan of doing little to tackle drugs, and thereby helping to sustain the estimated 2.5 million heroin addicts in Russia.

On Friday, the head of Russia's drug control agency said its agents had taken part in an operation on Thursday to destroy a "major hub" of drug production about 5km (three miles) from the Pakistani border, near the city of Jalalabad.

Viktor Ivanov said that along with 932kg (2,055lb) of high-grade heroin and 156kg (345lb) of opium, a large amount of technical equipment was destroyed.

But in a strongly worded statement on Saturday, President Karzai's office alleged that Russian military personnel had taken part in the "illegal" raid.

"While Afghanistan remains committed to its joint efforts with the international community against narcotics, it also makes it clear that no organisation or institution shall have the right to carry out such a military operation without prior authorisation and consent of the government of Afghanistan," it said.

"Such unilateral operations are a clear violation of Afghan sovereignty as well as international law, and any repetition will be met by the required reaction from our side," the statement added.

Mr Karzai said Afghanistan wanted friendly ties with Moscow, but that the relationship had to be based on mutual consent.
Map of Afghanistan

A senior source in the delegation of Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who is currently on a visit to Vietnam, told the AFP news agency on Sunday that Kabul's reaction to the anti-drug operation was "simply surprising and incomprehensible" because "the Afghan interior ministry participated in this operation".

The BBC's Quentin Sommerville in Kabul says Afghanistan's elite counter narcotics force did participate in the operation but it appears that the president's office was not informed of who would accompany them.

Afghanistan's interior ministry said it thought that only Russian observers rather than Russian troops were to take part, our correspondent adds.

The president's national security adviser, Rangin Dadfar Spanta, said Nato officials had apologised in private but that he wanted a public declaration.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Guddu » 01 Nov 2010 00:04

ramana wrote:Thanks to the shoe guy all airports are shrines where you need to take off shoes.


Most insightful, the entire world is converting to hinduism...shrine to the vayu devta.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 01 Nov 2010 00:18

The click of the "mouse"( Vahan of Ganesh=Wisdom) bring forth all the knowledge instantly depending on the "conenction"/puja .
Just click on the word like Wahabi, murder, loot,rape, arson, amputation, illiteracy, begging , aid, lack of logic, inhuman thoughts , deeds and terrorism and one get the sakshat darshan of Isalmist doctrine in action. Lets hope Alii's kids carry on the traditional values starting with first cousins.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Guddu » 01 Nov 2010 00:19

vic wrote:Trying to coin New BRF Motto for Obama:-


Stable Pakistan partitioned in Ten parts is definitely in Indian & US Interest.


Sir, simple qveschun, stable is for horses onlee ?, or also for don-kees

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RajeshA » 01 Nov 2010 01:12

Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:
Sorry garu,
but I'd rather have a mud hut on the ground, than a castle in the air.

We have no strategy on reclaiming Pakistani land for the Hindus, and even if we had, nobody in India has the will or the capacity to do it.

i cant discuss such things in the open forum. These are not something put on a plan and executed.

I understand.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RajeshA » 01 Nov 2010 01:13

Guddu wrote:
vic wrote:Trying to coin New BRF Motto for Obama:-


Stable Pakistan partitioned in Ten parts is definitely in Indian & US Interest.


Sir, simple qveschun, stable is for horses onlee ?, or also for don-kees

Where is Hercules?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Sudip » 01 Nov 2010 04:52

Sorry if already posted.

Hmmmmm we need a lot more clear-ness still not clear enough


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rony » 01 Nov 2010 05:19

^^^

Isnt that Indian Muslim audience ?


That f*cking British muslim convert precher needs to be kicked out of India.Why the hell does the govt allows wahabised idiots like him to enter India ? He is trying to arabize the Indian muslims by saying that visiting dargahs and fortune tellers is un-islamic.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Sudip » 01 Nov 2010 05:24

Rony wrote:^^^

Isnt that Indian Muslim audience ?


That f*cking British muslim convert precher needs to be kicked out of India.Why the hell does the govt allows wahabised idiots like him to enter India ? He is trying to arabize the Indian muslims by saying that visiting dargahs and fortune tellers is un-islamic.



I wonder how do countries like turkey or north africa with considerable regional/cultural flavour in their religious practises treat these people. However, has he ever visited india? I think this video was in paikhastan right? If it wasnt paikhastan then he seems to have considerable dislike for paikhastan :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Manny » 01 Nov 2010 06:20

It is in India. He says "Here in India...."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Ambar » 01 Nov 2010 07:37

If unchecked,thats gonna be the future of Socialist Republic of Kerala.Going by the audience and their accent,it was most likely shot in Kerala.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby brihaspati » 01 Nov 2010 07:53

Ali wrote
- The point I was trying to make about transferring of Hindu ethos and value was that while Hinduism is very rich in traditions and Ideas, It seems to me that Hindus are more susceptible to conversion either by force or manipulation. I agree that Hindu ethos have survived for centuries, but it seems like Hinduism is constantly under theological invasion even in relatively peaceful time and is shrinking. Again this is just my opinion without any scientific research so feel free to correct me if I am wrong. So if I were a Hindu, I would have been a little worried about my grandchildren getting forcefully converted to something else, especially since this has already happened to my ancestors once.


Curious logic - though!

Anyway - can you provide any example of a region where Islam penetrated before the modern period and where non-Muslims have survived in the majority - and where those non-Muslims did not viciously fight back? yes the crucial examples of survival are the two ends of Europe and India. The same bad-boys of Islam (oh only the Turks were beastly, all else were dripping with kindness and Sufi-ness) - the mameluk slave Turks - who did all those face-losing stuff the Islamic narrators boast about but for which Islam should not be blamed - were responsible for reaching into East Europe and India. The supposedly civilized post-zahiliya Arabs mixed with North African tribes and reached al Andalus in the west. From both those places they were beaten out. What makes you claim that Muslims in India suddenly changed their spots and became pacified without war? reality is that Muslims were never so strong as to have total and undisputed rule over the entire subcontinent.

Even in Russian Volga downstream, and eastern Europe - surely you must be knowing that at one point Bulgaria turned Muslim - and in Spain initial Islamic advance was overwhelming. Non-Muslims retreated, but then over centuries learned how Islamics were completely based on deception to win wars, and that they would always be treacherous and break treaties and agreements - and that chivalry or non-muslim values had to be dropped to deal with Muslims. This learning period in Europe and India stretches for centuries - which is typical to unlearn the values of a higher civilization to sink low enough to return Islamic favour in kind.

From the supposed birth and revelation of Islam in northern Arabia, to the conquest of Spain took just about 80 years. Starting from exactly the same period - it took muslims around 850 years to establish dominance by defeating last major Hindu kingdom in the Deccan. What made the progress so slow? Even then that control and dominance gave way to non-Muslim power within another 100 years, and from then on it was downhill skiing for Muslims. If the British had not arrived on the scene, most likely you would have been the descendant of a second conversion - this time out of Islam.

if you have the time, do some research on the alternative modern voices from the "Hindu" side about the reality of the Hindu-Muslim power struggle, where unopposed and undisputed progress of Islam is not supported in the parallel records of Hindu successful military resistance - which has been the main reason that Hindus still outnumber Muslims on the subcontinent.

Spain and east Europe or Russia were smaller and less populated places so were easier to clean up. India naturally needed longer time and the process had started but was stalled due to the appearance of the Brits. In the future the process will perhaps be restarted.

Islam is not free of the precedence of conversion out of Islam by force and submission/extinction by invasion - the Spanish, East European and southern Russian examples of reconversion under coercion should be pretty good cases you perhaps need to familiarize yourself with.

Your last statement is what drove my curiosity though in logical terms : I thought it would be you, say, as a Muslim, who should be rather worried that your grandchildren might be forced to be converted out again since their ancestor was once converted into Islam! Those who are still Hindus had been able to retain their Hinduism - isnt it - (so apart from a few cases of Suddhi in the earliest periods) so they could not have been descended from ancestors who had been converted into Islam!
Last edited by brihaspati on 01 Nov 2010 07:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby AbhishekD » 01 Nov 2010 07:54

Looks like the bile of Islamism is spreading in Kerela, God's own country. That islamist who had cut the professor's hand has recently won the local municipal election. This shows widespread support for these islamists in Kerela and it is now becoming more obvious that any region with a significant muslim population is going to turn more fundamentalist. Kerela, Bengal and Assam are clearly on the sight of islamists after they have conquered kashmir

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby brihaspati » 01 Nov 2010 08:02

It is good in a way. For it will show the futility of communist politics and the appeasement politics from non-communist protectors of Islamism. It shows that the population under its influence cannot be coopted into progressive political movements without destroying its theological structure. Assam will take care of itself, but GV and Kerala society needs to face itself in a mirror. So this trend is a good shake up call. I would see it as a very positive sign - because it clears the field of the interlopers who muddied the real dynamic and conflict for more than half a century.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 01 Nov 2010 08:05

Gagan wrote:But it is a different matter that the powers that be in Pakistan themselves don't believe in this bulls**t, this is just dope for the uneducated abdul to force him to keep relying on the powers that be.

Gagan, after some time, the perpetrators of lies begin to believe in them. They have to believe in them so that they can 'prove' their lies and also fabricate more 'convincing lies' to the aam admi. It becomes circular. The original set of lies then becomes putative. That is the foundation of the fraudulent two-nation theory. After some time, that theory was taken for granted and an entire edifice was built on this sand. But, a portion of it collapsed in 1971 and the rest is crumbling now. As it crumbles, more of the same has to be injected into the system. Thus, after 1971, the collapse was explained away as lack of piety and machinations of the Hindu India. It was also explained that the East Pakistani Muslims themselves were not of a pure variety with dominant influence of the kufr and it was therefore good riddance. The Islamic fervour therefore got more distilled and hatred for Hindu India grew even more. The secession of East Pakistan thus boosted the two-nation theory.

In his book, Friends and not Masters, Ayub Khan, who like Jinnah was not much of a practitioner of Islam, says that there must be 'an ideology for which a man must be able to lay down his life. Such an ideology with us is obviously that of Islam. It was on that basis that we fought for and got Pakistan."

The Two-Nation Theory also came handy in an ironical way for the Islamist parties. There had been some stigma associated with them for having opposed the creation of Pakistan and calling Jinnah as Kafir-e-Azam. People like Iskander Mirza and Ayub Khan (until he began to worry about his Presidency) drove the mullahs to the wall. The redoubtable Mawdudi was even awarded a death sentence. When the opportunity presented to redeem themselves, they did so in style, especially in 1971. The Islamist Al-Badr and Al-Shams massacred Hindus in East Pakistan and their stock went up in Pakistan, and especially the Pakistani Army. There was no longer any doubt in the minds of people after that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Nov 2010 09:03

Er... don't know why people are getting the apoplexy-The Abrahamic (Abrahamanic?) internecine warfare was interrupted for two centuries at the most. That is while science was the monopoly of the west (I recognise that India had the monopoly for a thousand years prior), Islam was in retreat. A corollary of the oil age is that it is more convenient to pay Arabs for the resources. Islamic/Arab wealth brings with it the seeds of destruction.

I know a few Indians who snort at Islamism-believing it to be a problem for its twin and best left to those who have intimate knowledge of it and explicit instructions for the ninth expedition.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SureshP » 01 Nov 2010 18:08

Monday, November 1, 2010Front Page
Aug 21 Attack
LeT member confesses involvement
Court Correspondent

Abdul Malek alias Golam Mohammad, an operative of the Pakistan-based militant outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), yesterday confessed his involvement with the grenade attacks on an Awami League (AL) rally on Bangabandhu Avenue on August 21, 2004.

Metropolitan Magistrate AKM Emdadul Haque recorded the statement of Golam and sent him to jail.


However, details of the confessional statement could not be known immediately.

The Criminal Investigation Department yesterday produced Golam before the court of Chief Metropolitan Magistrate of Dhaka for recording his confessional statement on completion of the third phase of his four-day remand.

Rapid Action Battalion arrested Golam on October 5 from the airport railway station area in the capital for his alleged role in supplying grenades, which were used for attacks on the AL rally.

Later he was shown arrested in the grenade attack case on October 18 and was remanded for ten days in three phases.

Earlier another LeT member Abu Yusuf Butt alias Abdul Majid Butt gave confessional statements to the magistrate regarding his involvement in the grenade attacks.


http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=160851

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 01 Nov 2010 20:20

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan the month of November not unexpectedly begins with a demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan.:

2 policemen martyred, 8 injured in Swabi suicide attack

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby ramana » 01 Nov 2010 20:38

RamaY wrote:Theo ji,

Aliji's question is not new. Many people believe that Hinduism is inherently weak and that is why it couldn't do a Spain to Islam/Muslims. They are probably right. They also think India is a hindu country and think that Indian govt, law-and-order are hindu. They view the minority appeasement as the weakness of a Hindu state...


Not true historically in India.

First the Vijayanagar kings defeated the Madurai Sultanate and Spained it in late 1300s.

Second the Marathas conquered Delhi but did not proclaim soveriegnity of the Maratha Kings. Mahraja Sahu did not like to leave Pune.

Third Maharaj Ranjit Singh conquered all of West Punjab till the NWFP foot hills.

In all above case it was the longeivty of the above dynasties that failed to complete the conquests.

If it wasn't for the British partition of Punjab it would be a different matter.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RamaY » 01 Nov 2010 20:43

Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:
Sorry garu,
but I'd rather have a mud hut on the ground, than a castle in the air.

We have no strategy on reclaiming Pakistani land for the Hindus, and even if we had, nobody in India has the will or the capacity to do it.

i cant discuss such things in the open forum. These are not something put on a plan and executed.


RajeshA garu,

In fact your grand-unification plan is an indirect step toward the castle on the ground.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RamaY » 01 Nov 2010 20:59

ramana wrote:
RamaY wrote:Theo ji,

Aliji's question is not new. Many people believe that Hinduism is inherently weak and that is why it couldn't do a Spain to Islam/Muslims. They are probably right. They also think India is a hindu country and think that Indian govt, law-and-order are hindu. They view the minority appeasement as the weakness of a Hindu state...


Not true historically in India.

First the Vijayanagar kings defeated the Madurai Sultanate and Spained it in late 1300s.

Second the Marathas conquered Delhi but did not proclaim soveriegnity of the Maratha Kings. Mahraja Sahu did not like to leave Pune.

Third Maharaj Ranjit Singh conquered all of West Punjab till the NWFP foot hills.

In all above case it was the longeivty of the above dynasties that failed to complete the conquests.

If it wasn't for the British partition of Punjab it would be a different matter.


Ramanaji,

I am talking about GOI in post 1947-India. This confusion was non-existing before either in the Hindu kingdoms nor in British India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby darshhan » 01 Nov 2010 22:04

^^ Ramay ji , One has to understand that the reconquista movement launched by spaniards took upwards of 700 years to capture whole of spain.Whereas we have just started.Post 1947 Indics are already in control of about 70% of the India.Some day in future we will definitely take back our areas which have been usurped by Pakistan.

Yes even I agree that the version of hinduism that is popular today among the masses of India is pacifist.I would not use the word weak.But this is likely to change in the future.Progress will be slow(considering the slavish nature of our ruling establishment and media) but eventually truth will prevail.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby svinayak » 01 Nov 2010 22:06

darshhan wrote:
Yes even I agree that the version of hinduism that is popular today among the masses of India is pacifist.I would not use the word weak.But this is likely to change in the future.Progress will be slow(considering the slavish nature of our ruling establishment and media) but eventually truth will prevail.

This is mainly due to long term media and education propaganda on the Indian population over 50 years.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby darshhan » 01 Nov 2010 22:25

Acharya wrote:
darshhan wrote:
Yes even I agree that the version of hinduism that is popular today among the masses of India is pacifist.I would not use the word weak.But this is likely to change in the future.Progress will be slow(considering the slavish nature of our ruling establishment and media) but eventually truth will prevail.

This is mainly due to long term media and education propaganda on the Indian population over 50 years.


Acharya ji.You are absolutely right.But the information revolution that is taking place today(mobile phones,3g,broadband internet) will ensure that the monopoly of govt and media establishments over information and education will end.Until unless we break their monopoly we will continue to live as dhimmis.

Another thing we should strive for is free speech.Without free speech we will be unable to analyse the ideologies which are hostile to our very existence.Although again internet and other technologies will make our task easier in this regard.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby archan » 01 Nov 2010 22:26

darshan, please take that discussion to another thread. If you can't find any that fit, there is always an off-topic thread in GDF. Thanks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby surinder » 01 Nov 2010 22:40

Ali wrote:Hindi and Urdu maybe the same on a conversational level presumably because speaker of both languages created a lowest common denominator set of words to communicate and exchange ideas. However, the higher level constructs are quite different in both languages. For example

Urdu: Mera nam Heather hai. Mai Angrezi bolti hu. Mai Amerika se hu. Aap ka nam kya hai?

In a slightly better Urdu would be

Humara Nism-e-garami Heather hey, Hum Angrezi bolti hein, Humara taluq Amerika sey hey. Ap ka Nism-e-Grami kya hey?



Nism-e-garmai? Do you know people who use this word? You mean, you go to station to get ticket, the man says, "Nism-e-Garami", and you say "Nasir Hussein". And that use of of "Nism-e-garmi" suddenly changes the language from Hindi to urdu?

No one says Hindi is not Hindi if you use english words, or french words, or punjabi words in it. But the momen you use a farsi/araabi word, language cannot be Hindi. Is hindi banned from using words from those languages?

As I said, the time scales and the geographical locations on which Urdu is supposed to have developed, is simply not possible for it to be an independent language. As a "shaili" (stylistic variant) of Hindi, Yes, as an independent language, not a chance.

Sorry.

PS: Incidently, "Humara taluq Amerika sey hey" is incorrect translation of "I am from America". Why don't you take a second jab at translating "I am from America" in Urdu? While at it, do the same for Hindi.

Lalmohan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 01 Nov 2010 22:46

urdu == ordos; from the mongolian word for encampment or 'horde' in english
the 'language of the camp', a smattering of turkish, persian and other central asian languages that the mughals brought with them from the lands they inhabited in transoxania. then mixing with indians (mainly rajputs i imagine) created urdu and hindustani depending on your station in life i expect
it is a derivative language which ever way you look at it

Prem
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 01 Nov 2010 22:49

Hi Surinder ,
The pure Arapic words in Pokbhasha are Roti, Kapra, Makan , Mamu, Bhai, Ruppiya, De de babba, Allah ke naam pei", Bhookha, nanga , Bhookha, pyasa , mera, tera , chor, dakku , jootti, jutt, kheti etc .
One word which is taught at birth and used whole life is "baksheesh".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby surinder » 01 Nov 2010 22:51

Ali wrote:- The point I was trying to make about transferring of Hindu ethos and value was that while Hinduism is very rich in traditions and Ideas, It seems to me that Hindus are more susceptible to conversion either by force or manipulation.
...
So if I were a Hindu, I would have been a little worried about my grandchildren getting forcefully converted to something else, especially since this has already happened to my ancestors once.



You don't have to be an expert in history. Post-Aurangzeb, muaslim power in India collapsed at a very very rapid pace. Can you point to *ONE* example of theri revival and strength? Just *ONE* example. After Auranga, it has been one continous tale of contraction, defeat, and subjugation, and capitulation.

56 nations in OIC, and their net output (minus oil) is what? Same as that of netherlands? is that the power that makes you proud? Where is the Hindu power today?

Far from being easy to convert, Hindus are one of the hardest to convert. You have to ask yourself where are the budhists of A'stan and central asia? Where are the polygamists of hijaaz? Where are the Zorastrians of faras? Where are the animists of indonesia? Where are the xtians of Egypt? Where are the native religions of moors? And compare that to Hindus, still proudly worshipping their 33 crore Gods and Goddesses. Hats off to their resilience.

If hindus are that easy to convert, surely 800 years of izslaamic must have found it fairly easy to convert them. Combined with the brutality of the steppes and the easy recourse to the dehshatgardi learned from the mongols, surely that must have been an easy task. Surely, you are not suggesting that they did not try? Where the mughals? the hindus are still here for you to see.

If merely producing more kids is enough to show that you are growing (and others are contracting) then obviously I have to admit that you are correct and I am wrong.
Last edited by surinder on 01 Nov 2010 22:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby BijuShet » 01 Nov 2010 22:52

Ali wrote:Hindi and Urdu maybe the same on a conversational level presumably because speaker of both languages created a lowest common denominator set of words to communicate and exchange ideas. However, the higher level constructs are quite different in both languages. For example

Urdu: Mera nam Heather hai. Mai Angrezi bolti hu. Mai Amerika se hu. Aap ka nam kya hai?

In a slightly better Urdu would be

Humara Nism-e-garami Heather hey, Hum Angrezi bolti hein, Humara taluq Amerika sey hey. Ap ka Nism-e-Grami kya hey?

Small nitpick Aliji.

In a slightly better Urdu would it not be

Humara Nism-e-garami Heather hey, Hum Angrezi bolti hein, Humara Mulk Amerika hey. Ap ka Nism-e-Grami kya hey?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby surinder » 01 Nov 2010 22:57

Lalmohan wrote:urdu == ordos; from the mongolian word for encampment or 'horde' in english
the 'language of the camp', a smattering of turkish, persian and other central asian languages that the mughals brought with them from the lands they inhabited in transoxania. then mixing with indians (mainly rajputs i imagine) created urdu and hindustani depending on your station in life i expect
it is a derivative language which ever way you look at it


Kanjarkhanic, as you so very correctly pointed out !!!!!

surinder
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby surinder » 01 Nov 2010 23:00

Humara Mulk Amerika hey.


Biju Seth, this is incorrect translation. I will leave it up to you to figure out the error and do the translation correctly and accurately.



BijuShet wrote:Hum Angrezi bolti hein


This takes the cake.

Brad Goodman
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 01 Nov 2010 23:20

drone acharya strikes again

US drone strike kills five in Pakistan

MIRANSHAH: A US missile strike by a drone killed at least five people in North Waziristan on Monday, said a report.

Brad Goodman
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 01 Nov 2010 23:23

Mr Eneven back at placating his core constituency

Pakistan should not be seen as a zero-sum game, says Stephen P Cohen


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