Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 13 Nov 2010 13:33

Ashley Kravitz wrote:In a Business Plus programme, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf Sindh President Naeemul Haq threw a glass towards Sindh Chief Minister Qaim Ali Shah's adviser Jamil Soomro. During the programme 'The Pulse', Haq strongly criticised Soomro's leadership, alleging the government had failed to rule. But on receiving a defensive statement from the CM's adviser, the PTI leader hurled a glass of water towards him. Both the political leaders got furious and started arguing with each other, while the audience was amazed at watching such an 'action-packed' show.



That's nothing, watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSMR4qRsM6g


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RajeshA » 13 Nov 2010 14:58

Raghavendra wrote:That's nothing, watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSMR4qRsM6g

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Jinnah was the Gene Roddenberry of the best comedy series on the planet!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Jaspreet » 13 Nov 2010 17:46

Maturity
Click to see why this is in TSP thread.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Venkarl » 13 Nov 2010 17:50

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby anupmisra » 13 Nov 2010 21:32

DusPercenti in his Second Home

Zardari seeks Chinese support in economic development

I invite you to take advantage of the (1) geo-strategic location, (2) trade and economic potential and (3) the warm waters of Pakistan, which has (4) all the ingredients to become a (5) progressive and developed country

The same can be said of an explosive country as well. A collection of nation states serving as the (1) nexus of global terrorism, (2) bartering in alms and arms and weaponry and (3) with a lit fuse (4) has all the right ingredients to progressively become a (5) made-to-order- uncoupling state with overly developed chaos.

This is not a friendship but brotherhood

The President also invited the Chinese companies, particularly from Guangdong province, to help Pakistan in the establishment of a new city, Zulfikarabad, in Sindh province.


And then what? Benazirakot, Bilawalpur, Bhaktawargarh, Assefabad, and lastly New Asif City. Did I leave out anyone from the illustrious family?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Johann » 13 Nov 2010 21:33

surinder wrote:
shiv wrote: Ony 21 out of 390 (5%) were in Punjab and Sindh ....


The thing that I have found puzzling is that Pakjab has been spared so easily, especially since it is Pakjabi army & politicians which cut deals with Khan to sell the tailbums cheaply. It cannot be but a short train ride, or road travel to reach pakjab. Places like Pindi are but 4-5 hours from nwfp capital.

One explanation has been that Pakjabis have very carefully not allowed the pashatoons to not settle in Pakjab, but instead have directed them to B'stan and Karachi, but still if some of the disgruntled groups who seeth at the Pakjabi for his 2-facedness and forked toungeness, then the obvoius thing for them would seem to be make Pakjab unlivable, which they haven't seriously done.

Anyone wants to guess? If Johann is reading this, can he shed light?


There is a very substantial Pakjabi Taliban. It absolutely hates the PA, and they hit Islamabad-Rawalpindi pretty heavily in 2007-09, mostly in retaliation for Lal Masjid and PA complicity in American drone strikes.

I think there are a few reasons this has slowed down this year.

- The first is that I suspect the PA has established a new deal, or shall we say deterrence by agreeing to resist US pressure to move on N. Waziristan if the Pakiban holds off on attacks on the centre and PA leadership.

- The second is that the PA has tightened internal security within their ranks and in the capital region.

- The third is that the Pakjabi provincial government is *desperate* to prevent NWFP style violence from engulfing the area. They're willing to go pretty far to keep the local Taliban (what used to be the SSP, LeJ and JeM) happy. It is a policy of appeasement.

The PA is gambling that they can outlast the US 'surge', and that the pressures to conduct an op in North Waziristan will eventually ebb. At the very least it won them a respite.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gerard » 13 Nov 2010 21:53


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 13 Nov 2010 23:43

Johann:

Pakijabis will come under ferocious attack should TSPA/ISI dare touch their LET prodigies, isn't it? But here is what is intriguing. LET and other assorted India-specific (and Afghan-centric) terror groups are an extension of TSPA. It must be cosing TSPA a lot of money is it not to keep them happy day in and day out, and keep them battle ready as suicide bombers. At some point this ought to become unsustainable.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Johann » 14 Nov 2010 00:09

CRS,

The political dynamics of the Pakistani jihadi "ecosystem" are heavily affected not just by ideology but demographics.

One of the reasons the LeT is so docile in PA hands is that the Ahle Hadith (the subcontinental branch of the Wahabbi movement) are such a small minority in Pakistan. The other factor is that they are heavily tied through funding and ulema to the Saudi establishment, and have a quietist view of politics, instead of the revolutionary view of those like Bin Laden who turned on the Saudi state.

The Pakiban (both Pakjabi and Pashtun) is Deobandi, and this a movement that has both the numbers and the local roots to be willing to challenge the establishment for power.

Keep in mind that the Muslim League originally depended on the Barelvis during the 1930s and 1940s to mobilise the pirs and other sufis with their mass rural following to vote for the AIML. The Barelvis reached far more Muslims across the subcontinent.

In the 1980s and 1990s Zia and those who followed tried to encourage the Deobandis because the Deobandis were better at producing the jihadi cannon fodder for the expanding jihads in Kashmir and Afghanistan. The Deobandis had a far more militant outlook than the Barelvis, and a much wider grassroots network than the middle-class oriented Jamaat-e-Islami.

The latent problem was that the Deobandis have never liked the Pakistani elite and the PA which in their minds is too infiltrated by Shia landlords, by western influences, etc to set up a *proper* Hanafi, Sunni emirate which is the only reason worth having Pakistan in the first place.

The LeT has really no role to play in this internal power struggle within Pakistan, which is why the PA can afford to trust them and rely on their obedience. They are more pliant than the Jamaat-e-Islami, which has much more serious political ambitions.

The LeT is based in Pakjab, but if the PA is forced to sell them out this will probably produce a response from the Deobandis who will be worried that this is a sign that they are going to face a new level of pressure from the PA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Johann » 14 Nov 2010 00:18

CRS & others,

If you remember I said several weeks back that the US would find itself forced to give the LeT the Haqqani treatment no matter what the Pakistanis might feel about it.

Of course I also said that this will hurt Pakistan, but not cripple its ability to inflict pain on the US in Afghanistan, or on India.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 883889.ece

Washington, November 13, 2010
Use drones against LeT: Armitage to Obama administration

“What we’re suggesting is that we include LeT in this target list, because if the Pakistanis aren’t willing to see this as a threat and indeed an existential threat to them, then we see it that way, and we’re going to prosecute it,” Richard Armitage, former deputy Secretary of State, said.

Mr. Armitage was speaking at the release of a report by an independent task force at the Council on Foreign Relations —— a Washington—based think—tank —— on ‘the U.S. Strategy for Pakistan and Afghanistan’ The nearly 100—page report is authored by Mr. Armitage and two other experts on South Asia —— Samuel R. Berger and Daniel S. Markey.

“I would hope they would see the Haqqani Network in the same way they see Pakistani Taliban, that this is ultimately a threat to them as well. On Lashkar—e—Taiba, they have to see this as something that is — that could be, in a single stroke, — something that causes war between India and Pakistan, something that I think would delight al—Qaeda no end,” he observed.

“And why do I say this? LeT is trouble. As I’ve already indicated, if they have one more strike, another Mumbai—type attack, I do not think the Indian government can be held back.

But they’re also in Afghanistan. They’re killing us. I take it personally,” Mr. Armitage, who was deputy Secretary of State from March 2001 to February 2005, said.

“If we can’t be successful in the jawboning, pressuring or sticks—and—carroting them into this, then in the long run, we’re dealing with very dangerous situation,” Mr. Armitage warned.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shynee » 14 Nov 2010 00:50


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 14 Nov 2010 02:02

Johann wrote:CRS & others,

If you remember I said several weeks back that the US would find itself forced to give the LeT the Haqqani treatment no matter what the Pakistanis might feel about it.

Of course I also said that this will hurt Pakistan, but not cripple its ability to inflict pain on the US in Afghanistan, or on India.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 883889.ece

Washington, November 13, 2010
Use drones against LeT: Armitage to Obama administration


I say Amritraj ki Jai. He understands the problem.

But boss Johann, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying Drone attacks won't be effective in taking out LET? Are you saying even if LET is taken out, TSP can still inflict pain on India? I can't see see how. I don't doubt the capabilities of TSPians, the Pakijabis, to the last Abdul on the street throwing themselves into a neurotic tizzy when it comes to India, but without using LET terrorists to provoke India, I don't think TSP can do much else. Status quo minus terror means India wins. TSP's ultimate insult, ultimate fatal blow to its H&D would come when India can safely ignore them with contempt or a lazy yawn.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 14 Nov 2010 02:11



Bunch of pompous turds making Pakistan out to be more than what it is: terrorist cesspool. Their sense of entitlement is brazen. They have been drunk on this equal equal with India that any dose of reality that there is no equal equal with India is a kick on their gut.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 14 Nov 2010 04:42



It will not be so easy to use drones in central Punjab against the LeT. The Pakistanis are clever. Even when Musharraf gave permission (and some recent accounts say, he even encouraged) for using the drones, he also talked vehemently about how that was impinging on their sovereignty, thus feigning to his own people that he had no control over an independent US decision and thus causing more hatred for the Americans among ordinary citizens. The subsequent Gilani government has maintained this facade. If the US were to bomb the hell out of Muridke or Jamia-al-Qudsia at Chaudburji in Lahore, it will be an unacceptable escalation for Pakistan that will result in disruption of relationship between the US & TSP. Unless the US is willing to go the wholehog, using drones against LeT will not happen. A time may come for that too, but not now.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Cosmo_R » 14 Nov 2010 04:44

It would be stupid to put any store in Armitage. Initially, he and Colin Powell oriented their 'advisory' efforts towards Pakistan. When they discovered that India was a more lucrative market, they suddenly became converts.

Useful idiots to be managed but not 'allies'

Powell meets Kayani

http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... licyReview

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 14 Nov 2010 04:58

Raghavendra wrote:That's nothing, watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSMR4qRsM6g



This has got to be one of the most amazing videos I have ever seen from Paquistaan. To me the rapist looks like Kasab but it blows my mind to see the guy's arrogance in his boast that no one can touch him. As if that wasn't enough - the TV anchor has his echandee pricked so much that he has to pick a fight. And lose. Only in Pakistan.

I know there are men walking around in India who have raped women and have got away with it. But boasting about it on TV has not yet occurred in India. It is frightening how easy it is for a society slip into this kind of rot and it makes one think of how important it is to have a law enforcement system that actually works and is not affected by patronage, nepotism and sycophancy. This video is a real life repeat of what I have seen in many Hindi movies of my childhood. It is certain that those movies were not entirely fiction but based on observed social issues of that era - where the rich landlord's son could to "have his way" with women in his father's fiefdom. But one tends to reject those stories as fiction and in any case good always triumphed over evil in the movie where the hero fights and rescues the damsel and deals with the villain. Not so in the case of the video where the rapist actually has the last word.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby brihaspati » 14 Nov 2010 05:21

Pakistani men as in the video can boast about this because of a peculiarity of laws in sharia regarding rape of women - and is the same story wherever the Sharia has been implemented.

Pakistan introduced the Hudood "laws" in 1979. It includes a clause stating that to prove rape, a woman must have at least four male witnesses. If the woman fails to provide proof, she herself faces the charge of adultery. According to the Hudood interpretation there is no difference between "rape" and adultery, and if a sexual assault is not rape then it must be adultery (outside of marital or concubinage/"right hand possessions" in Islamic land in which case there can be no rape. Moreover there can be no rape if it is on non-muslim women in non-Islamic lands - according to some scholars who use it to justify sexual relations by Muslim men only outside of marriage in non-Islamic lands with non-Muslim women).

This makes it immensely difficult to face up to the legal system for redressal by any alleged rape victim, and this is exactly the loophole within Islamic law that emboldens such culprits as in the video.

Muhammad's second wife Aisha was accused of adultery (she returned late one night after being delayed and accompanied by one of the most famous companions of Muhammad - this also gave rise to many subsequent disputes/accusations/counter accusations and sectarian debates - look for the Hadiths attributed to Aisha). The dispute was settled when Muhammad received a "revelation" requiring four witnesses: "Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!" (Qur'an 24:13).

This has since been the cornerstone for claiming the need for "four".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Jaspreet » 14 Nov 2010 05:31

Pakistan introduced the Hudood "laws" in 1979. It includes a clause stating that to prove rape, a woman must have at least four male witnesses.

I believe this was revoked 2 years ago.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 14 Nov 2010 05:41

brihaspati wrote:Pakistani men as in the video can boast about this because of a peculiarity of laws in sharia regarding rape of women - and is the same story wherever the Sharia has been implemented.


What is curious is that sharia is "clear and present" in Saudi Arabia while Pakistan has waffled between formal implementation of sharia as part of the constitution or following the regular secular kafir constitution that the Brits left behind.

The Pakistan establishment have been extremely clever in the way they have pretended to be oh so secular and oh so moderate while they have allowed sharia to be implemented de facto in their society. When any Paki is asked how woman can be treated thus they say "Every country has its extremists and we too have exceptional cases, but our constitution does not allow this" - and this lie is swallowed hook line and sinker by US and European media.

By having a constitution that says one thing and allowing something else to happen - Pakis have the "best of both worlds" - in which they need not stick to any particular rule book, What angers me is that this country is given respect and recognition as a nation state supported by the international geopolitical structure and is held equal equal with India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RamaY » 14 Nov 2010 06:41

brihaspati wrote:Muhammad's second wife Aisha was accused of adultery (she returned late one night after being delayed and accompanied by one of the most famous companions of Muhammad - this also gave rise to many subsequent disputes/accusations/counter accusations and sectarian debates - look for the Hadiths attributed to Aisha). The dispute was settled when Muhammad received a "revelation" requiring four witnesses: "Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!" (Qur'an 24:13).

This has since been the cornerstone for claiming the need for "four".


Did Muhammad accuse Aisha of adultry and stoned her to death? Or did have another revelation?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby brihaspati » 14 Nov 2010 08:13

Jaspreet wrote:
Pakistan introduced the Hudood "laws" in 1979. It includes a clause stating that to prove rape, a woman must have at least four male witnesses.

I believe this was revoked 2 years ago.


I think, unfortunately, you mean the Protection of Womens Act (Amendment) 2006, which still retains the requirement of four witnesses.

The Act retains the overall framework introduced by Zia [Jahangir, Asma (2006) «What the Protection of Women Act does and what is left undone», In State of Human Rights in 2006, Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Lahore, Pakistan.]. Justice Majida Rizvi, points to the following three major shortcomings in the Protection of the Women Act of 2006 (Justice Majida Rizvi, 2008, Herald).

Firstly, the definition of «adult» is the same as it was in the zinâ ordinance where a female adult is either 16 years of age or has «attained puberty». This is in contradiction with other prevalent laws of the country, for example the age of majority under family laws is 16 for females, 18 for males whereas the Majority Act prescribes the age of majority for males and females as 18 years. Moreover, the Act does not distinguish between juvenile and adult offenders under its definition of «fornication».

The PWA 2006 retains legal discrimination against women and religious minorities whose status as witnesses under the hudûd ordinances has been retained and cases of hudûd offences cannot be heard by non-Muslim judges. In other words, the Protection of Women Act continues to discriminate against minority population groups who are not treated as equal citizens.

Thirdly, the PWA 2006 retains the corporal hadd punishments of stoning to death. Though stoning to death is never executed in Pakistan and the only punishment which in fact has been practised is lashing, the fact that corporal punishment is in the statute books is a matter of grave concern. In the words of Asma Jahangir: «Their endorsement justifies Zia’s Islamization process and more importantly leaves the temptation for the orthodoxy to agitate for their implementation at an appropriate moment in time».

For zina (hadd - actual sexual "offence")
zinâ-hadd

Proof :
a) Confession
b) Four truthful adult male Muslim eye-witnesses. Punishment : 100 lashes for minors and stoning to death for adult married people

zinâ-tâ‘zîr (false accusation of "sexual offence" - either by the woman or men)

Proof :
No standard of proof is provided; at the discretion of the judge. Punishment : 10 years imprisonment, 30 lashes

PWA 2006 on the above 1979 ordinance: 1) All offences except hadd punishment for zinâ moved to Pakistan Penal Code 2) Made punishment for zinâ liable to tâ‘zîr punishable up to 5 years and made it bailable.

For rape:
zinâ bil jabr (rape) : both for hadd (offence) and tazir (false accusation) : the description of "crime" and "hadd" offence itself - identical to "zina" as above. For, zinâ bil jabr tazir, imprisonment for not less than 5 and not more than 25 years and 30 lashes.

PWA 2006 amendments:
1) hadd punishemt for rape repealed
2) All sexual act of penetration against females under 16 years to be considered rape
3) Marital rape becomes an offence
4) Complaints of rape cannot be converted into charges of zinâ

Note however that the requirement of proof by "four" "honest/Muslim men" is still required. So the fundamental weakness based on which the men like in the video can still get by handsomely.

RamaY ji, OT! Just briefly - no he was actually defending Aisha. She never forgave the accuser's party - a favourite of Muhammad's - Ali.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 14 Nov 2010 08:26

The Abd-fool got the beating on camera not for the rape but talking ,rubbing the host wrong way . Both did not give "pakisan" about rape but phokey H&d onlee.
Is the crime called Zina or Jinnah ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 14 Nov 2010 08:34

shiv wrote:What angers me is that this country is given respect and recognition as a nation state supported by the international geopolitical structure and is held equal equal with India.

Shiv, doesn't that go back to pre-Independence days when Muslims as a community were treated, and demanded to be treated, separately ? Jinnah & Co demanded a Muslim nation, gave promises to radical fundamentalists that Shariah would be implemented and yet pretended to the British, the rest of the world and Pakistan's own minorities that Pakistan would be a secular country. That carefully constructed secular myth was very soon busted when the Objectives Resolution (‘Qarardad-e-Maqasid’) was passed. This happened during the life time of the first-generation leaders of Pakistan itself. Thus, only more downhill slide could have been expected from that point and that came true in double quick time. I feel that India did not recognize what was unfolding in those early days.

It was Allama Iqbal and Jinnah who awakened Islam from a private sphere into public, political life. Jinnah, who realized the destructive capabilities of the Islamist genie and thus warned Gandhiji as early as 1918-19, succumbed to the allure it offered. One should therefore completely ignore Jinnah's August 14, 1947 speech because that was simple and pure taqiyyah because at every other time, both before and after that speech, he has unequivocally favoured a shariah-based Islamic state. For the Muslims of the Yamuna-Ganges belt, who had been influenced by Sirhindi, Waliullah Dehelvi, Sayid Ahmed Berelvi and Mawdudi from 17th century onwards, Iqbal & Jinnah came as much needed fire for the fuel. These Yamuna-Ganga people were the ones in power and in bureaucracy in the newly created Pakistan and they needed to display their Islamic fervour to the native Punjabis and Sindhis as well as the ulema to convince them of their committment to Pakistan. The Objectives Resolution thus had to be fleshed out so that the doubting Thoamses could be won over and therefore it was passed within 18 months of Independence. I am pretty sure that discussions on this Resolution had begun during the life time of Jinnah and with his concurrence. Thus, Pakistan was not to be content with giving the Muslims a place where they could freely practice their religion without being under the Hindu yoke, but also where the State would play a role in shaping the country as a true Islamic nation.

Therefore, the 1956 constitution introduced the 'Repugnancy Clause' which said that all laws must be shariah-compliant. I have posted on a few occasions here how Z.A. Bhutto laid the practical foundation for an Islamist state by converting some of these notions into actual practice. In Zia's time, the Objectives Resolution was made a predominant part of the Constitution rather than merely remaining as a Preamble. Jinnah gave promises to the ulema and the pirs, Liaquat Ali Khan converted those promises by allowing them entry into politics, ZA Bhutto laid the groundwork for the practice of Islamism through his orders and actions, Zia made the State a complete Islamist State, Benazir created the Taliban and other monsters, Nawaz Sharif attempted to create a Caliphate constitutionally, and Musharraf played a complete taqiyyah to support these elements. From there, it has been a rapid descent into the present day nightmare. One can clearly see the evolution of a struggle by a few Aligarh elites from having more representation within the administration and political setup, to autonomous Muslim-majority states within an Indian federation, to an Independent Muslim state, to an Islamist state, to the 'Fortress of Islam' to the present day 'international migraine' and den of Islamist terrorism radiating worldwide from within its borders. This complete nightmare situation happened in less than a century from that fateful meeting with Lord Minto in October, 1906 by a Muslim delegation.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Vivek_A » 14 Nov 2010 09:14

Use drones against LeT: Armitage to Obama administration


Two obvious possibilities.

Armitage is on the "board" of a company looking to do business with India.
Armitate has a book coming out.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 14 Nov 2010 10:03

X Posted from the Mumbai Terrorist Attack thread.

Sebastian Rotella on the Pakistani Islamic Terrorist, Sajid Mir:

The Man Behind Mumbai

The same article is also available at the Washington Post website:

On the trail of Pakistani terror group's elusive mastermind behind the Mumbai siege

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rangudu » 14 Nov 2010 10:21

I've long been saying here and elsewhere that Sajid Mir is one of the key guys. He's like Dawood Ibrahim but few know about him.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby csharma » 14 Nov 2010 10:56

Why this article in WaPo on LeT talking in detail about PA's link to LeT? Is US serious about LeT?
The article clearly mentions that it could be ISI carrying out strikes outside of India like in Australia.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Pranav » 14 Nov 2010 11:52

csharma wrote:Why this article in WaPo on LeT talking in detail about PA's link to LeT? Is US serious about LeT?
The article clearly mentions that it could be ISI carrying out strikes outside of India like in Australia.


It is a good piece of journalism. But who is funding Pro-Publica and why?

edit: "ProPublica is led by Paul Steiger, the former managing editor of The Wall Street Journal. Stephen Engelberg, a former managing editor of The Oregonian, Portland, Oregon and former investigative editor of The New York Times, is ProPublica’s managing editor. Richard Tofel, the former assistant publisher of The Wall Street Journal, is general manager."

Very much part of the establishment.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Johann » 14 Nov 2010 13:05

CRamS wrote:But boss Johann, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying Drone attacks won't be effective in taking out LET? Are you saying even if LET is taken out, TSP can still inflict pain on India? I can't see see how. I don't doubt the capabilities of TSPians, the Pakijabis, to the last Abdul on the street throwing themselves into a neurotic tizzy when it comes to India, but without using LET terrorists to provoke India, I don't think TSP can do much else. Status quo minus terror means India wins. TSP's ultimate insult, ultimate fatal blow to its H&D would come when India can safely ignore them with contempt or a lazy yawn.


The Afghan Taliban's leadership and logistics in Quetta are safe from drone strikes. The US is trying to reach them through a variety of methods, but there are limitations. By the same token, the LeT is headquartered in Lahore. There are limits to what can be achieved through drone strikes on the Tribal Areas.

Secondly, the LeT is not what is causing trouble in the Vale of Kashmir today. Pakistan has a number of other Islamist levers it can pull.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 14 Nov 2010 14:04

Zardari offers Pakistan's warm waters to China
“I invite you to take advantage of the geo-strategic location, trade and economic potential and the warm waters of Pakistan, which has all the ingredients to become a progressive and developed country,” the president said while addressing corporate leaders of the Guangdong province at the Pakistan-China Forum on Economic Reconstruction.

Zardari added that if China used Pakistan’s warm waters for mutual benefit, the country would facilitate by all means.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 14 Nov 2010 18:16

Drive to collect hides of sacrificial animals by banned organizations gains momentum
It is learnt that some banned religious outfits, using new names, are also asking the masses to give hides of the animals to them. These organizations have set up stalls and tents at busy roads and crossings in the capital and their activists are engaged in convincing people in the name of religion to bring them the hide after performing the religious duty. The residential sectors of the city, including I-8, I-9, I-10, G-6, G-7, G-8, G-9 and F-6, have been the most attractive for these entities to set up stalls and tents in order to collect hides. The activity has given a momentum to the business of printing presses also as they are earning huge money from these organizations.

Amid the rising inflation in the country, the prices of hides have also increased as the hide of a gat is sold at Rs 900, the hide of sheep is sold at Rs 1100, and the hide of a calf is sold at Rs 1500.

Talking to Daily Times, Farooq Hussain, Najamul Hassan, Wajeeh Ahmed and Maroof Kazmi, residents of twin cities, said that the campaign of these organizations was at its peak as few days were left in Eid. They said that they found pamphlets of several organizations at their doorsteps while the representatives of such organizations also personally visited homes and markets carrying pamphlets to advertise their respective entities. They added the advertisement of these organizations consisted emotional religious sentences while their activists had also sentimental sentences to convince people to give hides to their organizations.

They further said that pamphlets contained Quranic verses and the sayings of Holy Prophet (PBUH), which could be carelessly thrown resulting in their disrespect. “There is no audit or accountability of these organizations. No check and balance exists as to how much they earn after collecting hides of sacrificial animals and where they spend this huge money,” they maintained.

They said that they felt nervous while donating hides, as they did not know that who would appropriately utilize hides of their sacrificial animals.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Anindya » 14 Nov 2010 18:27

SS

Once we add up the collection of ushr in rural areas and the collection of skins - the reach and contributions of the average pakistani to terror against India and afghanistan can be fully understood. I believe that tens of millions of families give either ushr or skins to terror groups - but, more data on this would be great.

This is a very relevant measure of the visible support for terrorism within Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby anupmisra » 14 Nov 2010 18:29

Give more or shut up!
International community must help Pakistan: Malik. The "gun to one's own head" strategy at work again!

Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Sunday said that if the international community cannot give funds then it should not keep telling Pakistan to “do more” either.

He said that the international community must cooperate with Pakistan not just to restore peace in Pakistan but to ensure global peace.


So, the path to global peace originates, passes and ends in pakhanistan!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby chetak » 14 Nov 2010 18:33

SSridhar wrote:Zardari offers Pakistan's warm waters to China
“I invite you to take advantage of the geo-strategic location, trade and economic potential and the warm waters of Pakistan, which has all the ingredients to become a progressive and developed country,” the president said while addressing corporate leaders of the Guangdong province at the Pakistan-China Forum on Economic Reconstruction.

Zardari added that if China used Pakistan’s warm waters for mutual benefit, the country would facilitate by all means.



http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/12/changing-the-status-quo-by-kuldip-nayar.html


Changing the status quo
Kuldip Nayar
November 12, 2010 (2 days ago)
By Kuldip Nayar

ON his visit to Pakistan in 1999, the then Indian prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee wrote in the visitors` book at Minar-i-Pakistan in Lahore that India`s prosperity and integrity depended on that of Pakistan.



Why do successive Indian prime ministers make such stupid statements and that too in pakiland??

We have succeeded in spite of the pakis and managed well so far. We really couldn't have grown at 25% even if our "friends" from across the border had actively helped us!! Our role on the world stage will come in time and it cannot be hurried up.

This aa baayl mujhe maar attitude is peculiar to Indian politicians who often have nil foreign policy expertise and are very averse to taking sound professional advice from a large and under employed foreign ministry.

The way the pakis have / are buttering up vajpaypee and mms, they obviously see a fall guy in these "eminent" personalities.

The way our guys travel to these " one on one " meetings with apparently no preparation or background briefing is scandalous. They refuse to include experts in their teams who can guide them dynamically in a fast changing situation.

It's always these " one on one " meetings that cooks our goose. we are not focused and have many distractions but just see how the other side has remained focused for many decades now.

I surely hope that these " one on one " meetings are recorded for proper analysis by professionals and experts to give them a direct and keen insight into the enemy mind.
Last edited by chetak on 14 Nov 2010 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby anupmisra » 14 Nov 2010 18:40

Suicide bomber wounds nine in South Waziristan
AoA on a Sunday. No one met his 72 raisins.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Dipanker » 14 Nov 2010 20:08

anupmisra wrote:Give more or shut up!
International community must help Pakistan: Malik. The "gun to one's own head" strategy at work again!

Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Sunday said that if the international community cannot give funds then it should not keep telling Pakistan to “do more” either.

He said that the international community must cooperate with Pakistan not just to restore peace in Pakistan but to ensure global peace.


So, the path to global peace originates, passes and ends in pakhanistan!


The international community, sooner or later, will learn to ignore these idiots.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby asprinzl » 14 Nov 2010 20:42

shiv wrote:
What is curious is that sharia is "clear and present" in Saudi Arabia while Pakistan has waffled between formal implementation of sharia as part of the constitution or following the regular secular kafir constitution that the Brits left behind.

The Pakistan establishment have been extremely clever in the way they have pretended to be oh so secular and oh so moderate while they have allowed sharia to be implemented de facto in their society. When any Paki is asked how woman can be treated thus they say "Every country has its extremists and we too have exceptional cases, but our constitution does not allow this" - and this lie is swallowed hook line and sinker by US and European media.

By having a constitution that says one thing and allowing something else to happen - Pakis have the "best of both worlds" - in which they need not stick to any particular rule book, What angers me is that this country is given respect and recognition as a nation state supported by the international geopolitical structure and is held equal equal with India.


Doc, it is my opinion that the fault lies in Indian leadership. A leadership that does nothing gets nothing. If they keep doing the same thing over and over again, the result will also be the same thing over and over again. If, India vehemently says Kashmir is NOT a disputed territory....no matter what tantrum PakIsSatan throws....it wont matter. But the leaders have to be stupid to claim Kashmir is a disputed territory. So the whole saga just gets dragged around. Why call it LOC? Why not declare it internaitonal border regardless if Pakistan or the world recognizes it or not. Just keep insisting that it is IB and keep on till kingdom come. India is a bigger power and her weight will count sooner or later. The first building blocks need to be put in place now. It will soon register. See how "DRINKINGOATPISS is a religion of peace" being uttered day in day out despite evidence to the contrary.
Avram

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby nachiket » 14 Nov 2010 20:44

asprinzl wrote:Why call it LOC? Why not declare it internaitonal border regardless if Pakistan or the world recognizes it or not. Just keep insisting that it is IB and keep on till kingdom come. India is a bigger power and her weight will count sooner or later. The first building blocks need to be put in place now. It will soon register. See how "DRINKINGOATPISS is a religion of peace" being uttered day in day out despite evidence to the contrary.
Avram


Because that would mean India relinquishes its claim on PoK.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Kati » 14 Nov 2010 20:57

Mushy, the mushik (Chuha), is getting a lot of airtime lately.....

http://online.wsj.com/video/pervez-mush ... le_related

Is unkil using him (giving a false sense of hope) to pressurize Kiyanehin and Shuja pasha to
deliver, or else......?


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