Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby varun » 15 Dec 2010 19:10

Army 'May Intervene Over Pakistan's Decline'
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... A_Former_P


...He added Pakistan may be forced to take matters into their own hands - which could include working with the Taliban - if it continues to feel alienated by the rest of the world. :eek:

...Mr Musharraf spoke extensively in a wide-ranging interview which covered his return to politics, his regret at the circumstances surrounding his resignation and the future.

He was most concerned over the threat he sees coming from the developing relationship between America, India and Afghanistan.

"They are creating an anti-Pakistan Afghanistan and America has to realise that," he said...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 15 Dec 2010 19:40



The PA is utilizing Musharraf as its mouthpiece for kite-flying and also issue warning.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 15 Dec 2010 19:46

Pak rejects discriminatory treatment
The meeting reviewed the recent global and regional developments and their implications on Pakistan’s national security. NCA {National Command Authority} members, including federal ministers, the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee chairman, services chiefs and senior officials, attended the meeting.

The authority expressed concern over policies and trends of selectivity, exceptionalism and discrimination regarding strategic export control regimes. {Clearly referring to India's nuclear deal} Such policies, detrimental as they are to international peace and security, undermine the credibility of the existing non-proliferation regime and are inconsistent with the national laws and international obligations, the meeting observed.

It was noted that revisionism based on strategic, political or commercial considerations accentuated asymmetries and would perpetuate instability, especially in South Asia. {clearly referring to Indo-US relationship} The NCA underscored that peace and security were indivisible {threat} and that the goals of non-proliferation could only be advanced by ensuring equal and undiminished security for all states.

Strategic stability: Regional balance and strategic stability in South Asia are indispensable for peace, sustained development and prosperity for the region and beyond. {another threat}

The NCA categorically reiterated that Pakistan would never accept discriminatory treatment and that it rejected any effort to undermine its strategic deterrence.

As a nuclear weapon state, Pakistan is fully cognisant of its responsibilities, and has established effective and robust command and control structures and comprehensive export control and regulatory regimes. They are fully compatible with international practices and global regimes – and are acknowledged internationally, they authority maintained. The authority also insisted that Pakistan’s nuclear weapons were fully safe and secure.

The NCA underscored that Pakistan shared the goals of non-proliferation and was prepared to work with other nuclear powers on an equal footing to advance the goals. As a state with advanced nuclear technology, Pakistan was also prepared to promote the peaceful uses of nuclear technology, under the appropriate IAEA framework.

The NCA expressed satisfaction on the pace of development and effectiveness of Pakistan’s strategic deterrence. {i.e. the number of weapons which is being accumulated quite rapidly as per all reports} It reaffirmed that all requisite steps be taken to ensure Pakistan’s national security and to maintain credible deterrence.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Dec 2010 20:57

Steve Clemons of New America Foundation and thewashingtonnote.com said on the radio this morning that Zardari plans to give Holbrooke a posthumous Hilal-e-Pakistan award.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby saip » 15 Dec 2010 21:22

As Dr. Jehan El-Bayoumi was attending to Holbrooke in the emergency room at George Washington University Hospital, she told him to relax and asked what she could do to comfort him, according to an aide who was present. Holbrooke, who was in severe pain, said jokingly that it was hard to relax because he had to worry about the difficult situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

El-Bayoumi, an Egyptian-American internist who is Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton’s physician, replied that she would worry for him. Holbrooke responded by telling her to end the war, the aide said.


So the comments were made to an egyptian and not to a pakistani.

May be it is the incompetence of the pakistani surgeon that killed Holbrook?

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/1 ... -too-late/

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 15 Dec 2010 21:31

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan lurches to yet another dubious distinction. This time leading the world in the killings of journalists:

As bombings spread, Pakistan deadliest nation

At least 42 journalists are killed in 2010 as two trends emerge. Suicide attacks and violent street protests cause an unusually high proportion of deaths. And online journalists are increasingly prominent among the victims. A CPJ special report

Published December 15, 2010

NEW YORK

Amid a rash of suicide attacks, Pakistan became the world’s deadliest country for the press in 2010, with at least eight journalists killed there in connection with their work, constituting a significant portion of the worldwide death toll, the Committee to Protect Journalists said in its year-end analysis. .............................

Six of the eight fatalities in Pakistan were caused by suicide attacks or crossfire during militant strikes. On successive days in April, Samaa TV lost cameraman Malik Arif to a bombing at a Quetta hospital and correspondent Azamat Ali Bangash to a bomb attack targeting a refugee camp near Orakzai. Suicide attacks were a scourge for the Pakistani press throughout the year. More than two dozen other Pakistani journalists were injured in such attacks in 2010, CPJ research shows.

“The deaths of at least eight journalists in Pakistan are a symptom of the pervasive violence that grips the country, much of it spilling over from neighboring Afghanistan,” said CPJ’s Simon. “For many years, journalists in Pakistan have been murdered by militants and abducted by the government. But with the rise in suicide attacks, the greatest risk is simply covering the news. Journalists must put their lives on the line to cover a political rally, a street demonstration, or virtually any major public event. This is a deeply troubling and frankly untenable situation.” ....................................

CPJ

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 15 Dec 2010 21:38

Rangudu wrote:That is the hope of Hamid Gul and the dyed in the wool Wahabandi types (Type 1), but Kayani and co are too materialistic to want that (Type 2). What I mean is that everyone knows that an "ultimate attack" will result in their own destruction as well. Maybe the jihadi types truly believe in 72 houris etc. but Kayani and co have second mansions in UK/US/Dubai and their wives go to Europe to "shop", their kids study abroad etc.

This is why, as long as the Type 2's are in power, they can never say what they want.



There are elements I agree with in yours and SS's analysis, but my reading of TSP RAPE is that to the man on the street, their hatred of India is so consummate that they will be willing to die en masse if they can take India down. So unles by some miraculous turn of events, this TSP abomination is destroyed, and by that I mean take away the ability of Pakijabis to harass India, they will only grow in strength to ultimatley take the battle to dominate India. And if the current disparity between India & TSP continues to grow, they will for sure nuke India first, make no mistake about it. As for Indian retaliation, well, all the recent revelations about our capability hasn't inspird much confidence, and neither is TSP scared or threatned one jot. As the immediate aftermath of Mumbai showed, TSP is on a hair trigger alert to nuke India; its only India backing off, and some semblance of US pressure on TSP that is holding it back IMO.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 15 Dec 2010 21:49

Is Veena Malik a threat to Islam? :

Dawn Blog

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Amber G. » 15 Dec 2010 21:56

Sorry if already posted:
As President Obama prepares a strategy review, two reports
say there is a limited chance of success unless Pakistan
hunts down insurgents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/world/asia/15policy.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2

Mullen Expresses Impatience With Pakistan on Visit
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/world/asia/15mullen.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Dec 2010 22:03

^^^ from amber's NYT article
“That is not the optimal solution, obviously,” said Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. official and now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, who led a White House review of Afghan strategy last year that resulted in Mr. Obama sending the additional forces. “But we have to deal with the world we have, not the world we’d like. We can’t make Pakistan stop being naughty.”



et pourquoi pas?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 15 Dec 2010 22:04

X Posted from the ISI News & Discussion thread.

Death squad sponsored by the notorious intelligence organisation of the armed forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), suspected in the killing journalist Mohammad Khan Sasoli in Khuzdar, Baluchistan :

I.S.I.'s death squad believed to be involved in Khuzdar reporter killing

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 15 Dec 2010 22:26

Lalmohan wrote:so pakistanis now have an inarticulate fear of india
basically the bogeyman for all its worries
which means that the fear will never go away despite any manner of sops
because the fear is of fear itself and the fear of the meaning of pakistan
time to pull the plug on the 'state of pakistan'

Pakistan's fear of India is actually well-founded: it is an unproductive country with big ambitions and India is productive and self-sustaining. Until India's productivity can be checked or brought under the control of TSP, the latter will not feel any peace. This is also the reigning fallacy of GOI--they believe that not taking on TSP will help keep up productivity, while in reality TSP's goal is to end or capture that same productivity.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Dec 2010 22:27

indeed, so we are heading towards a period of increased instability with a demented nuclear armed moron living next door...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby ramana » 15 Dec 2010 22:31

Amber G. wrote:Sorry if already posted:
As President Obama prepares a strategy review, two reports
say there is a limited chance of success unless Pakistan
hunts down insurgents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/world/asia/15policy.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2

Mullen Expresses Impatience With Pakistan on Visit
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/world/asia/15mullen.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2



I think Mullenbhai is making noises before the WH review to ensure he doesn't get blamed for mollycoddling TSP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Dec 2010 22:41

More of the same:
http://security.nationaljournal.com/201 ... hp#1820829

To further complicate matters Pakistan and India are fighting a proxy war in Afghanistan. These two successor states are most of what was British India. They divided on the basis of Muslim nationalism and have been enemies ever since. Kashmir is the great prize in this struggle but Pakistan believes that Indian power behind the scenes in Kabul would constitute a threat to its existence. President Karzai's clique is believed in Islamabad to be an instrument of Indian power. To defeat and block the growth of such Indian power Pakistan supports mujahid groups who contest the growth of Karzai's (and Kabul's) "reach" across the country.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 15 Dec 2010 22:45

The Spy Who Came into the Heat

WASHINGTON: Long-time US "ally" Pakistan has broken the spy world's unwritten compact by publicly identifying the CIA Station Chief in Islamabad in an act that has sent ripples through the American espionage community, including the famed Agency headquarters in Langley, Virginia


However, in a brazen blowing of cover, reportedly at the instance of a disaffected section of the Pakistani spy agency ISI, a Pakistani citizen from North Waziristan who lost family members in a US Drone attack has filed a criminal complaint in an Islamabad police station against an American individual named Jonathan Banks, saying he is the CIA Station Chief in Islamabad who is coordinating the Drone attacks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Dec 2010 22:46

so the end game really is on in paquistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 15 Dec 2010 22:49

After jounalists it is teachers who are being clensed from paki lands

Pakistan: Islamists Systematically Killing Teachers Who Violate Sharia Law by Teaching Mixed Genders…

Islamic extremists are systematically targeting teachers in Pakistan’s Baluchistan province. Their crime is to teach children of both sexes in violation of Sharia.

According to a report by Human Rights Watch (MRW) on the issue, at least 22 teachers were killed in the province between January 2008 and October 2010.

Despite its vast mineral resources, Baluchistan remains Pakistan’s most impoverished province. It is also the stage of an insurgency by local nationalists seeking independence as well as the home of religious extremists. Both groups are involved in the attacks on teachers, Human Rights Watch said.

“If such killings and intimidation does not stop, the future is bleak, not just for Baluchistan’s children, but for prosperity and progress to ever reach the province,” said Ali Dayan Hasan, senior Human Rights Watch researcher in South Asia.



Now the question is how do the type 1 and type 2 react to whats going on in paki lands. Guess type 1 is happy this is happening since for them only schools that should function are madarsas where as type 2 has a dont care attitude since their children study in military schools and then in US or UQ.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby ramana » 15 Dec 2010 22:49

A_Gupta wrote:More of the same:
http://security.nationaljournal.com/201 ... hp#1820829

To further complicate matters Pakistan and India are fighting a proxy war in Afghanistan. These two successor states are most of what was British India. They divided on the basis of Muslim nationalism and have been enemies ever since. Kashmir is the great prize in this struggle but Pakistan believes that Indian power behind the scenes in Kabul would constitute a threat to its existence. President Karzai's clique is believed in Islamabad to be an instrument of Indian power. To defeat and block the growth of such Indian power Pakistan supports mujahid groups who contest the growth of Karzai's (and Kabul's) "reach" across the country.


Do these geniuses or genii answer a question? WHo brought Karazai to power in Afghanistan in the first palce? Where was he before he beacem the hed of the state?

I think the strat community of US is a willing accomplice to the TSP attacks on its own soldiers in Afghansitan by providing non sequitor excuses.

So TSP is fighting for Kashmir in Afghanistan? What a moron@!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rangudu » 15 Dec 2010 23:15

Ramana

I'd leave that guy alone. He's a hardcore Arabist, who openly writes about "Zionist" lobbies in the US etc. and "consults" for Saudi Arabia and related regimes. He is also a business partner of some retired TSPA Jernails.

No point even bothering to rebut these guys.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 15 Dec 2010 23:45

KLNMurthy wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:so pakistanis now have an inarticulate fear of india
basically the bogeyman for all its worries
which means that the fear will never go away despite any manner of sops
because the fear is of fear itself and the fear of the meaning of pakistan
time to pull the plug on the 'state of pakistan'

Pakistan's fear of India is actually well-founded: it is an unproductive country with big ambitions and India is productive and self-sustaining. Until India's productivity can be checked or brought under the control of TSP, the latter will not feel any peace.


Excellent point, and let me add my thoughts. Going by the analogy of marks or grades in an exam, India gets 50/100 and going up, while TSP has 30 and going down (rapdidly). As far as TSP is concerned, they want to nip India going too far above 50 in the bud. Now, to most western racists, the difference between India at 50 and TSP at 30 is not that much, so they don't see any big deal if India is brough down to 40 and TSP is artifically taken up to 40, as long as their interests are taken care of. Hence, this refusal of even idiots like David Rhodes who ought to know better that India must be delivered to TSP to win AfPak. Its that poisonous equal equal mantra that is etched in western consciousness that is proving to be India's albatross as far is their policies go.

This is also the reigning fallacy of GOI--they believe that not taking on TSP will help keep up productivity, while in reality TSP's goal is to end or capture that same productivity.


Many in Indian govt and many Indian elites actually buy into the equation India-- == TSP++ will make "South Asia" a garden of Eden even if it means India is broken up (Kashmir for a start).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Ashoka » 16 Dec 2010 00:21

Well it didn't take long before the pure media started circulating something soothing their abduls. Take it - Chancellor Markel never said it. :lol: :lol:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/89840/politically-incorrect-pakistan-summons-french-german-diplomats/

Responding to the demarche, the German charge d’ affaires said the chancellor’s remarks had been misquoted. Chancellor Merkel had outlined the general principles of Germany’s counterterrorism policy and her remarks were not Pakistan-specific, he assured. :((


There are at least a 100 videos of what the chancellor said standing by MMS. It wouldn't be Pakistan specific only if there more than one countries named Pakistan. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Ashoka on 16 Dec 2010 00:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rangudu » 16 Dec 2010 00:22

CRS,

Who is David Rhodes?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 16 Dec 2010 00:46

Pakistan’s apocalyptic grapevine
H.D.S. Greenway ( Another Fuddu in Field)
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... grapevine/

Pakistan is awash in apocalyptic rumors, and the boogeyman is the United States. Despite all the billions paid in aid, America is desperately unpopular with the common man, and with some of Pakistan’s military.
This has led to all sorts of wild conspiracy theories in which the CIA and Blackwater play central roles. On a recent visit, I could have bought a CD at an Islamabad bookstore titled “CIA threats to Pakistan, episodes one through nine.’’The rumor mill reaches from the poorest farmer into the very top echelons of the ruling establishment. For example, we know from Bob Woodward’s book that President Asif Ali Zardari believed that the wave of terrorist bombings that has beset Pakistan, and the Pashtun rebellions up north, must have been the work of an unseen hand. Suspect number one: The United States, because, he reasoned, archenemy India wasn’t smart enough to pull off something that devious.
The power of rumor on the subcontinent predates the Internet and WikiLeaks, even the founding of Pakistan itself. In 1857, the most serious threat to the British Empire was a revolt among Britain’s Indian soldiers, ignited by rumor. The British introduced new cartridges that had to be bitten before loading. The story got about that the cartridges were greased with either pig fat or cow fat, which would have been enough to defile both the Hindu and Muslim religions.
British officers and their wives and children were murdered by rampaging Indian soldiers, and the empire itself was shaken to its foundation. The “Great Indian Mutiny,’’ which many Indians now consider their first war of independence, was finally suppressed by all the fury Victorian Britain could bring to bear.
The virulence of the anti-American rumors in Pakistan today underlines a deeper distrust between two allies, as the cartridge rumor underlay a deeper distrust between ruler and ruled 150 year ago. Pakistan would like a truly strategic partnership, but fears it has only a transactional one in which America says, as if to a servant: Here’s the money, now do what we say.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby saip » 16 Dec 2010 01:15

Rangudu wrote:CRS,

Who is David Rhodes?


I think it is David Rohde, the NYT reporter captured by taliban.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/world ... stage.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 16 Dec 2010 04:06

You can listen to David Rohde here:
http://www.thetakeaway.org/2010/dec/15/ ... life-work/

The idiotic part starts at about 07:30/09:57. No transcript yet.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 16 Dec 2010 06:28

Prem wrote:Pakistan’s apocalyptic grapevine
H.D.S. Greenway ( Another Fuddu in Field)
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... grapevine/

I could have bought a CD at an Islamabad bookstore titled “CIA threats to Pakistan, episodes one through nine.

That fuddu was about to buy Hazrat Zaid Hamid (PBUH)'s seriez on CIA threats to munna.
:rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 16 Dec 2010 06:40

So what IS the solution to the Af-Pak quandrum?
And what is the solution to the world's and India's Pakistan problem?
What is the future of Pakistan, where is it headed?

IMHO: There is a unique set of dilemmas.
1. The longer we prolong the pakistani problem, its existance as a nation state ruled by the Pak fauj, the more irresponsible, the more uncontrollable, islamized, terror spewing it becomes. Ultimately India will have a Pakistan without much of an economy, without much financial support from the 3.5 friends, without any infrastructure and with a rapidly growing, armed to the teeth jihadi abduls. Massa can easily fold his tent and depart across the seven seas, these abduls and the refugees that they create are eventually going to be our problem.
2. We pull the plug on Pakistan, or massa tries to do it - Pakistan will use its 'nooke bums' on India - at least that is the going assumption. Same result if we try and cut Pakistan down to size too rapidly. Like for example if massa tries to separate KP from Pakistan, the pakis will go crazy. Or if someone tries to create Balochistan, Sindhudesh, Pashtunistan etc, their half mad Jernails, Kernails, and Kaptaans will be going even crazy and will press red buttons all over the place. Again India's problem.
3a. Massa lets pakistan die a slow death, by giving it arsenic instead of cyanide. Lets everyone bide their time for now. Ultimately there is a risk of scenario #1.
OR
3b. Massa hopes that let pakistan have arsenic along with sugar - aid and arms just enough to keep it barely alive, while the cancer eats it hollow. And wait...
...wait until the jihadis get so strong that they are on the verge of clearing out the RAPE. The RAPE will be willing to sell everything - their Nookes included - to massa for allowing them to escape. Massa will de-nuke munna, and then depart.

It looks like scenario 3b is in process.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 16 Dec 2010 06:47

Ashoka wrote:Well it didn't take long before the pure media started circulating something soothing their abduls. Take it - Chancellor Markel never said it. :lol: :lol:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/89840/politically-incorrect-pakistan-summons-french-german-diplomats/

Responding to the demarche, the German charge d’ affaires said the chancellor’s remarks had been misquoted. Chancellor Merkel had outlined the general principles of Germany’s counterterrorism policy and her remarks were not Pakistan-specific, he assured. :((


There are at least a 100 videos of what the chancellor said standing by MMS. It wouldn't be Pakistan specific only if there more than one countries named Pakistan. :mrgreen:


That could likely turn out to be the case.

As things stand now, despite the lapse of some 5 days, both the German and English versions of the official website of the German Chancellor (Clicky) is not yet admitting the fact that Angela Merkel met our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh.

Wait and watch.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby arun » 16 Dec 2010 07:05

Brad Goodman wrote:After jounalists it is teachers who are being clensed from paki lands

Pakistan: Islamists Systematically Killing Teachers Who Violate Sharia Law by Teaching Mixed Genders…

Islamic extremists are systematically targeting teachers in Pakistan’s Baluchistan province. Their crime is to teach children of both sexes in violation of Sharia.

According to a report by Human Rights Watch (MRW) on the issue, at least 22 teachers were killed in the province between January 2008 and October 2010.

Despite its vast mineral resources, Baluchistan remains Pakistan’s most impoverished province. It is also the stage of an insurgency by local nationalists seeking independence as well as the home of religious extremists. Both groups are involved in the attacks on teachers, Human Rights Watch said.

“If such killings and intimidation does not stop, the future is bleak, not just for Baluchistan’s children, but for prosperity and progress to ever reach the province,” said Ali Dayan Hasan, senior Human Rights Watch researcher in South Asia.



Now the question is how do the type 1 and type 2 react to whats going on in paki lands. Guess type 1 is happy this is happening since for them only schools that should function are madarsas where as type 2 has a dont care attitude since their children study in military schools and then in US or UQ.


This could be an attempt by the Pakistan Military to malign the Baloch freedom struggle by unleashing Pakistan Military sponsored death squads like the Baloch Musalla Difa Tanzeem (BMDT) to terrorise teachers.

The BMDT death squad has been allegedly unleashed by the Pakistan military to terrorise journalists in Balochistan (Clicky).

Tactics like killing teachers are well in keeping with the “Jihad in the Path of Allah” or in Urdu “Jihad fi Sabilillah” part of motto of the Pakistan Army of “Faith, Piety and Jihad in the path of Allah” or in Urdu “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah“.
Last edited by arun on 16 Dec 2010 07:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby MurthyB » 16 Dec 2010 07:09

From mice schidt to rat schidt:

[youtube]o9LdOzrTX5I&feature=related[/youtube]

Lots of "raisin deiters" on these cakes I am sure :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby SSridhar » 16 Dec 2010 08:32

Gagan wrote:3b. Massa hopes that let pakistan have arsenic along with sugar - aid and arms just enough to keep it barely alive, while the cancer eats it hollow. And wait...
...wait until the jihadis get so strong that they are on the verge of clearing out the RAPE. The RAPE will be willing to sell everything - their Nookes included - to massa for allowing them to escape. Massa will de-nuke munna, and then depart.

It looks like scenario 3b is in process.

Gagan, I doubt if 3b is in progress now. Let me explain.

The Americans think, along with its Western partners and perhaps India too, that somehow Pakistan can be turned around to see reason and correct itself to be a responsible nation-state. This is the reason that while applying the tourniquet, it is twisted just so lightly that there is considerable blood flow still. True, the donors are not as generous as before, true the IMF is asking for implementation of GST, more taxes for the rich, tax on agricultural income, higher electricity tariff etc. At the same time, the USA is continuing with its Kerry-Lugar generosity, the PA is getting its arms supply without let or hindrance, thereby lining the pockets of the powers that manage Pakistan. Other countries such as PRC & Japan, without distributing money as they used to do (not China though. It was always discreet in money matters), are getting involved in projects. The Type-2s will still get their 'share' from these projects. The Type-1s depend on other sources for their mioney anyway and so nothing bothers them. The pain therefore goes to the common folk, not the Type-1s and Type-2s. The common folk are already cannon fodder for the Type-1s & 2s. They either become foot soldiers of TTP (Type-1) or LeT (Type-2). Those who cannot become foot soldiers, for various reasons, contribute funds to JuD and pray fervently for the destruction of India. For them, the increasing pain only confirms the theories of Zaid Hamid, Hamid Gul, Aslam Beg, the mullahs et al that there is a deep conspiracy to annihilate the Islamic civilization and Pakistan is in the vanguard of protecting Islam.

The political parties, in order to survive, have to pander therefore to the increasing fundamentalism of the common folk, a la Z.A.Bhutto. So, the vicious cycle gets repeated. This is not going to be broken by merely making life more miserable for the common folk than what it already is. When governance deteriorates and it becomes too hot, either the PA will step in claiming to save the state or there could be a closet jihadi party (like PML-N, or PML-Q or even a defunct MMA) claiming power with the help of PA. Already Musharraf has begun to justify a likely future scenario of the PA seizing power.

With the reckless Chinese having already added considerablyto the nuclear armoury of Pakistan (and still continuing to do so), the world at large would once again fawn over the PA to contain any fallout (both literally and otherwise) if democracy is once again subverted. Thus, history will repeat itself.

A country of the size of Pakistan and resources will simply not collapse without considerable and focussed efforts from major players outside. Pakistan has gamed that and is therefore embedding itself more and more within China as the hedge.

Type-1s overpowering the Type-2s is still far-fetched. Again, the world-at-large may not allow that to happen. Countries in the neighbourhood like KSA, UAE, and Iran would feel very threatened if that comes to pass. This is indeed the threat that the Type-2s use (pointing gun at their own head) to gain concessions from their donors. If Type-1s have to have that kind of power, they need to Wahhabise/Deobandise Pakistani society on a very large scale than what is happening now. It may eventually happen too but not in the immediate future (say for a decade).

The real fear though is that with increasing extremism and hatred spawned by relentless Islamist onslaught, rising levels of poverty, poor governance and overall lawlessness, the subversion can happen from within very quickly. Something like 'Free Officers' with partiality to Syed Qutb/Maududi may take over without warning as the middle level officers are increasingly coming from non-traditional recruiting centres and are increasingly showing signs of Islamist tendencies.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 16 Dec 2010 09:07

The reason why the Pakistani army and government cannot fight the Taliban is not India. It is Islam.

The US, and US diplomats are either very secular minded, or they are too dumb. Note that many of us on this forum are experts at reading and diagnosing dumbness from Indians but we are always seeing smartness in others, including Americans to whom we constantly seek to give due credit for being extra smart.

They are not that smart. If you put Taliban in suits you get Pakistani army and establishment. This is a national level of stupidity that exists in America and even in France for that matter. Appearances matter more than invisible biases that Islam encourages. People protest against turbans and saris but cheerfully embrace suited booted Taliban.

Islam is the problem. The US won't admit it. The US system does not allow that because fundamentalist Christianity will rear its head if it does that. The rise of fundamentalist Christianity will be essential before Pakistan's game is shown up.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 16 Dec 2010 09:09

GoI wanting to help Pakistan yet again to me means that they want to keep Pakistan alive.
Alive but dependent and subservient on India, just like the others.

I can't think of any other reason why PM after PM reaches out to Pakistan when they have been shunned by everyone. Eachtime the Pakistanis are spited by the 3.5, there has been a PM in New Delhi who has gone overboard to put a welcoming arm around the pakistani leader.

This IT and business interaction that Nawaz Sharif has planned has 400% support in PMO. Once again for the nth time New Delhi is going full steam ahead to nurse the snakes to full health, so that it may bite us again.

Pakistan is going down the whirlpool to doom.

The pakistan army will NOT give up terrorism.
The US will not leave afghanistan until terrorism comes to an end.
As long as the US stays, there will be IED mubaraks all across Pakistan, (perhaps because to the holy warriors, the mere presence of the US excites them to no end?)
The current situation that Pakistan finds itself in, if it doesn't change it, it means doom.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Gagan » 16 Dec 2010 09:16

Pakistan's utility will never be lost to the major powers in the world because of counterweight geopolitics.

Even now, the only reason the pakistanis are doing all the rona dhona about Kashmir, nuclear deal is because they are pointing out to the 3.5 that the counterweight is being lost. That India is surging ahead, and tomorrow is going to rival the 3.5.

They would really love to destroy India / cut it down to size / bring it down to their level, just so that hyphenation is maintained.

Hyphenation is good for pakistan, it means money flowing in from 3.5. This is what Kiyani and the fauji establishment really want. Everything that we see happening ultimately leads to this goal.

But pakistan is like a drug addict, it makes merry until the dope flows in. But it will NOT-NEVER work hard for an honest day's living, and work hard to develop itself. If it did that it won't consider India to be its enemy.

We all know what happens to drug addicts in the end.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 16 Dec 2010 09:31

Pakistan muddling around is the best option at this point. As long as they remain in liquid oxyegen , no one has to exaust resources on high scale to manage the 180Million dumb,displaced and dangeorus Abduls. Quarantining of Poaktards is more of priority than their destruction which is destined to happen at their own hands. Once their Nafari reach 250-300Million with no way out of the sealed Poak Box , all will be well on the terror front .

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Satya_anveshi » 16 Dec 2010 09:45

SS garu....excellent assessment/analysis and perspective on Pukes. As always a pleasure to read your posts.

I do have some comments on your premise below:
SSridhar wrote:The Americans think, along with its Western partners and perhaps India too, that somehow Pakistan can be turned around to see reason and correct itself to be a responsible nation-state. This is the reason that while applying the tourniquet, it is twisted just so lightly that there is considerable blood flow still.

How would you define "responsible nation-state" in the context of Pakistan? What would it do it differently than it does now? (this may sound rhetorical but trust me that is not my intention)
And lastly, what does it mean to the "managers of Pakistan" to forego the option of using Pakistan as weapon if it becomes "responsible nation-state" ( but this depends on your perspective of what you mean by that term).

It will be good to hear your perspective on this.

My assessment is that Pakistan, a security state, by design, by its location, and by its certain characters that go into the realm of its religious make up, is meant to be a weapon-state and not a nation-state. It simply does not have nor is allowed to have a brain of its own. Weapon has to be used by someone who manages that weapon and wielder will never want to forego the option for it means only transferring it to someone else.
With the above premise, I take it that Indian belief (if there is one) that West is sincere about transforming Pak into a "responsible nation-state" (assuming you mean it to be the one in compliance of international norms) is self serving and an excuse for lethargy, unwillingness to play the role that it should for its own long term benefit. It could even be a shortcoming in our dispute resolution capabilities.

As such, I don't think West will take the path of putting a brain in a weapon. However, what can be done is to dismantle the weapon into several parts which will render the weapon useless.

Now, why and when will West do such a thing for Pakistan? Given that West has shown its unwillingness to any such thought in Afghanistan, a must more smaller, powerless and more homogenous state, it is anyone's guess on its Pakistani take.
What can be done, IMO, is to allow the weapon's management difficult for its master which would compel them to disassembly. Fortunately, by some quirk of fate we are provided with an opportunity and current instability allows for it. We should continue to play this and create conditions that compel the disassembly.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Satya_anveshi » 16 Dec 2010 09:58

In the Pakistan-India dynamics, IMO, there are more friends today in Pakistan than a few year ago. The current instability in Pakistan is conducive for us to make new and enhance old relations. We will need to let this continue till we reach a tipping point (if we are not at one already).

This may be contrary to other's perception but Pukistan is more open today than it was few years ago and there fore more open to look at yindu way.

Unlike American/Paki view that road to peace in AFG flows thru J&K, it is our view, a proven one at that, is road to peace in J&K flows thru AFG. There was a poster by name Chibber who occasionally post on BRF who used to say this amost a decade ago. How true his words are proving to be!
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 16 Dec 2010 10:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Pratyush » 16 Dec 2010 10:08

Prem wrote:Pakistan muddling around is the best option at this point. As long as they remain in liquid oxyegen , no one has to exaust resources on high scale to manage the 180Million dumb,displaced and dangeorus Abduls. Quarantining of Poaktards is more of priority than their destruction which is destined to happen at their own hands. Once their Nafari reach 250-300Million with no way out of the sealed Poak Box , all will be well on the terror front .


Guys,

The growth of population is contingent upon continuty of a stable governemt. If the GoTSP becomes unstable then even the 3.5 will not be able to stabilise the situation. In that condition the collpse of what remains of the civic society will result in the a cap if not a reduction in the population by it self as the HDIs will begin to decline. So will agricultural producty.

A decline in HDI means that the number of wombs will be reduced. It will mean less children being born. Or those born not reaching maturity to start the cycle again.

All in all the numbers of TSP population may come down to 120 to 150 millions and soon. If they don't change their ways even without an external Indian intervention.

Think Ethiopia X 100.

JMT

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Satya_anveshi » 16 Dec 2010 10:17

Gagan wrote:Pakistan's utility will never be lost to the major powers in the world because of counterweight geopolitics.

Yes Gaganji, this is another way to put it. But I do see solution in sight - allow for the internal contradictions to play their due and exploit. Type-2[RAPEs] will see the light and do the needful on Type-1.


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