Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2010

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shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 29 Oct 2010 13:32

A_Gupta wrote:Can't find it online, but the print edition of the Sunday Guardian (Oct 17, 2010) has the headline: "Flood loss less than Pak claim: WB, ADB".

A joint assessment by the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank on Thursday estimated the losses suffered by the floods at $9.7 billion, almost five times less than what had been claimed by the Pakistan Government.


Some info here
http://tribune.com.pk/story/62864/adb-w ... 7-billion/
ISLAMABAD: A joint assessment by the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank on Thursday estimated the losses suffered by the floods at $9.7 billion, almost five times less than what had been claimed by the government.


And from the ADB itself
http://www.adb.org/Media/Articles/2010/ ... ssment.pdf

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Jaeger » 29 Oct 2010 14:59


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby jamwal » 29 Oct 2010 15:27

A Paki replies:
Muhammad Moosa replied on May 29, 2010

When I ask them how they can understand Bollywood films and Indian TV, I’m usually just told that it’s because they “watch it a lot” and hence have “learned Hindi.”


well, whoever told you , they were wrong, we understand them because they speak mostly urdu , not hindi in their movies to grab the share of pakistani market.
i remember in india they had a huge discussion over this part , that they should use hindi in movies but that will bring down the business because no pakistani understands hindi.

the only similarity between urdu and hindi is the use of verbs like “is” , “are” , etc that’s it , not even a single word in urdu and hindi is common except for verbs.
no urdu speaker understands hindi , if they speak pure hindi, but most of hindi speakers are used to use urdu words because of movies. you will never find those words in hindi books.

except for verbs , urdu is mixture of farsi, arabi and about turkish i am not sure.
all the basic words of urdu came from farsi and arabi. that is why we can easily learn urdu and farsi.

let me now introduce myself,i am pakistani, pushtoon.
my mother language is pushto(khattak pushto, a very different dialect than genral known pushto) my national language is Urdu, and i had my basic education in urdu language upto 10th grade. i know arabi because i have been in arab country for 16 years and also it is related to us by our religion islam. i know a little bit of farsi because many farsi speakers live in our province migrated from afghanistan. so i know these languages with grammar.(except farsi)

hindi is known to us only by bollywood movies and that is the basic reason why every one is confused about hindi and urdu similarities.



Heather Carreiro replied to Muhammad Moosa on May 29, 2010

Sorry Muhammad but you are choosing to believe the myth. I’ve studied Arabic as well so I can offer these comparisons. Take a basic greeting.

English: Hello, my name is Heather. I speak English. I am from America. What is your name?

Arabic: Ana ismi Heather. Adrusu al lugha al Ingliziyya. Ana min Amrika. Ma ismu-ka?

Urdu: Mera nam Heather hai. Mai Angrezi bolti hu. Mai Amerika se hu. Aap ka nam kya hai?

Hindi: Mera nam Heather hai. Mai Angrezi bolti hu. Mai Amerika se hu. Aap ka nam kya hai?

You said that “only the verbs” are the same. Well in these sentences, every single thing between Urdu and Hindi is the same. Possessive pronouns, nouns, verbs, helping verbs, postpositions, question words….

In Arabic, the word order and the structure is completely different from Hindi-Urdu.


:rotfl:


If somebody told me that a country can be so delusional, I'd have never believed it. This is how their educated people think. :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Pratyush » 29 Oct 2010 15:39

Hey another fridin ij about to end. And habe nat seen the demonstration of the IEDeology aaph TSP. Bhy do I habe to Bhine ebery fri din to see the demonstraaaaation of the IEDeology of TSP.

blease explain, this jingo is getting withdrawal symptoms.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby harbans » 29 Oct 2010 15:48

Oh no you all are so wrong. Bollywood speaks Urdu so they can make money from the Paki market (it's another fact that Paki audiences watch pirated versions onlee). And who said Sanskrit is Indian? Geeta is written in pure Hindu..
I think you can find pure hindi language in their holy book called GEETA
and yes Sanskrit was invented by a Pakistani whose name starts with a P (so there you go SDRE). And then Pakistani's without conversion became Arabs, Persians, Turks of TFTA claim over the entire subcontinent who have progressed to the superiority of the Arabic TFTA culture. And now as the K is superior to all that exists it's Ok to destroy remnants of an ancient culture.

Jaegar ji good find. Though most here would be aware of this..should this article also go to Page 1 post 1?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby anandsgh » 29 Oct 2010 16:10

Apologies if posted earlier but its a Surprise. Go to Photo No. 14 directly.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/1 ... iland.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Ashley Kravitz » 29 Oct 2010 19:43

^
Read the comments :twisted:
Why would Pakistani's want to kill the peaceful people of Thailand?
Posted by Mark G


Pic 14: What in the world are those Pakistanis doing in Thailand?!
Posted by lizzie


41
# 31 says it all about this beautiful country and it's people. Hope to go there some day before the Pakistanis start to destroy this country too.
Posted by Sam


I'm absolutely shocked, SHOCKED, to see Pakistani militants engaging in terrorist activities in yet another country... Afghanistan, India, USA, UK, Indonesia, Russia... add Thailand to the list.
Posted by Jeff

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 29 Oct 2010 19:54



Speaking of lurking. I went to deaf and dumb forum to see reaction of RAPE pakis over the metro bomber but looks like pakis have decided to gloss over the news. Aboslutely no mention of it. Guess either they are ashamed of fellow jihadi caught without the bang or perhaps too scared of how they can survive in kufar land.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 29 Oct 2010 20:53

Arun Jaitly eloquently articulates US double dealing with India


The US policy on global terror is well known. It should be first applied to Pakistan with equal force. So, what is true of western border of Pakistan must be equally true of its eastern border.

It can't be that Pakistan is an ally in the Afghan region so Americans go soft on them. As far as India is concerned Pakistan instigates terror here. So, we want America to maintain the same standard of sensitivity to terror to apply against Pakistan's western and eastern borders.

As far as Kashmir is concerned India's dignity and sovereignty must be respected.

You can't allow Pakistan to first use conventional war, then, soft-border terrorism and now instigate mob violence to destabilise the area. The Americans should firm up. Anyway, India would never accept the situation where to give comfort to Pakistan because of its co-operation with Americans on its western border America wants some concession for Pakistan on its eastern border. This will never be acceptable to any Indian.



I bold the last part because has US position not been accepted by the current Indian leadership? Isn't Jaitly wrong on that count?

I am sick & tired every time I listen on US media that US needs to "calm" things down between India & TSP, US will encourage India to withdraw troops from border with TSP, or US needs to "fix" relations between India & TSP; all condescending colonial crap that has gone unchallenged by MMS & Co, when simple truth of the matter is that what US demands TSP to do on the western border needs to be done on the eastern border too. Once that is accomplished, the white man need not bother anymore about "fixing" India & TSP, the "fixings" will fall in place. He can be spared that burden.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 29 Oct 2010 21:55



But Poak national language is Poakarabsian like Poaknetics make up of poakulation.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RamaY » 29 Oct 2010 22:22

My CT for reduced fridin pataka in land of pure..

CIA agreed to outsource its bredator target selection to ISI. Now drona-charyas are focussing on ekalavyas onlee not on kauravas

At this rate Pakistan will be a pissful state in no time...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby surinder » 29 Oct 2010 22:35

The screen writer of Mahabharat, Dr. Rahi Massom Raza, wrote that Urdu is a "shaili" of Hindi. That is it. It is not a new language. New languages are not invented on a scale that Urdu is claiming to develop. The requisite spatial insulation did not exist for a new language to develop. What the good lady is saying is correct: It is basically the same language.

Unfortunately, Indians have failed to drive the advantage: they happily subscribe to the view that Urdu is an independent, different language. Post-independence, government effort has been to Sanskritize the spoken language to carve space for Hindi. We should not contract. We should claim Urdu as nothing but Hindi.

This is one more piece of clothing you snatch away from militant ROP. Subcontinent ROP, incidently, also claims food, spices, clothes, and music to be also different and ROP. None of this is true: our music is 100% indian/Hindu; Spices are 100% indian/Hindu; and the so-called mughlai dishes are Indian/Hindu. Hinduism should re-assert, rather than capitulate to the demands of accomodating. Ultimately, all they have is their ROPism, which is different.

Ultimately, one side effect of TSP fascination for Urdu is that Hindi is spoken well all the way upto Peshawar, NWFP, and A'stan. It is a free promotion of Hindi.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby akashganga » 29 Oct 2010 22:41

surinder wrote:The screen writer of Mahabharat, Dr. Rahi Massom Raza, wrote that Urdu is a "shaili" of Hindi. That is it. It is not a new language. New languages are not invented on a scale that Urdu is claiming to develop. The requisite spatial insulation did not exist for a new language to develop. What the good lady is saying is correct: It is basically the same language.

Unfortunately, Indians have failed to drive the advantage: they happily subscribe to the view that Urdu is an independent, different language. Post-independence, government effort has been to Sanskritize the spoken language to carve space for Hindi. We should not contract. We should claim Urdu as nothing but Hindi.

This is one more piece of clothing you snatch away from militant ROP. Subcontinent ROP, incidently, also claims food, spices, clothes, and music to be also different and ROP. None of this is true: our music is 100% indian/Hindu; Spices are 100% indian/Hindu; and the so-called mughlai dishes are Indian/Hindu. Hinduism should re-assert, rather than capitulate to the demands of accomodating. Ultimately, all they have is their ROPism, which is different.

Ultimately, one side effect of TSP fascination for Urdu is that Hindi is spoken well all the way upto Peshawar, NWFP, and A'stan. It is a free promotion of Hindi.

A different note. The sherwani suit which muslim men of the indian subcontinent wear is derived from 9 yard dhoti worn by hindu men. Their ancestors were hindus who wore 9 yard dhotis. When they converted to islam they stitched it to distinguish themselves. The shewanit suit is found only in India/Pakistan/Afganisthan and not in arabia.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Juggi G » 29 Oct 2010 23:17

The Scale of the ChiPak Alliance could Prove to be More than just an Irritant. The Apogee of their Nuclear Ties was Revealed to the World in January 2004 in Sartorial Fashion: Two Plastic Bags from Good Looks Fabrics and Tailors, Islamabad stuffed with Chinese Uranium-Based Nuclear Weapon Blueprints.

These Designs Sold to Libya by Rogue Scientist A.Q. Khan were Evidence of the Han Paternity of the World's First Islamic Bomb :P :rotfl: .

A Nuclear Capability that has Allowed Pakistan to Counterbalance India by using Terror as an Instrument of State Policy.

The ChiPak Threat
India Today » The Big Story

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 30 Oct 2010 01:01

Gas crisis: textile industry gives 48-hour ultimatum
http://www.businessrecorder.com/news/to ... matum.html

FAISALABAD (October 29, 2010) : Value-added Textile Sector has given a 48 hours ultimatum to resolve the gas-crisis and warned complete closure of the industry rendering millions of wage earners jobless. This was announced by Muhammad Saeed Sheikh, Regional Chairman, All-Pakistan Textile Processing Mills Association (APTPMA) while addressing a news conference here on Thursday.President, Faisalabad Chamber of Commerce & Industry (FCCI) SheikhAbdul Qayyum, Chairman, Pakistan Textile Exporters Association (PTEA) Wasim Latif, Chairman, All-Pakistan Sizing Association (APSA) Muhammad Shakeel Ansar, former Chairman FCCI, Mian Aftab Ahmed,and representative of Pakistan Hosiery Mills Association(PHMA) Abdul Hameed Bhatti also attended the press conference and fully endorsed the decision of the APTPMA to close down their units in case the government did not restore the gas to processing and sizing mills within next 2 days.Addressing the print & electronic media, Regional Chairman, APTPMA, Muhammad Saeed Sheikh said that the Sui Northern Company had issued a gas loeadshedding schedule, under which the gas supply to value-added textile processing, printing and sizing units will remain suspended for 6 days and it would be restored on November 4.


( No gas from Balochtan and no cotton from India and i say there goes couple of billions out of Poakterrorist hand. Add the food inflation and soon real peace get estabished first time in 1400 years )

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby KJo » 30 Oct 2010 02:09

m_nair wrote:Dallas-Fort Worth is a big mess too. BRFites in DFW area can see the many Pukistanis masquerading as Indians this saturday at DFW Diwali Mela


Why wull Pakis claim to be Indians at a haraam Diwali party?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prasad » 30 Oct 2010 02:11

KJoishy wrote:
m_nair wrote:Dallas-Fort Worth is a big mess too. BRFites in DFW area can see the many Pukistanis masquerading as Indians this saturday at DFW Diwali Mela


Why wull Pakis claim to be Indians at a haraam Diwali party?

Yindoo wimmins.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Ali » 30 Oct 2010 02:43



It’s funny that I was lurking while you posted this and found this article interesting enough to post a reply. Hindi and Urdu maybe the same on a conversational level presumably because speaker of both languages created a lowest common denominator set of words to communicate and exchange ideas. However, the higher level constructs are quite different in both languages. For example

Urdu: Mera nam Heather hai. Mai Angrezi bolti hu. Mai Amerika se hu. Aap ka nam kya hai?

In a slightly better Urdu would be

Humara Nism-e-garami Heather hey, Hum Angrezi bolti hein, Humara taluq Amerika sey hey. Ap ka Nism-e-Grami kya hey?

As you can see this is quite different from Hindi. This is even more apparent in Urdu Shayari which uses proper form of Urdu. Languages can only be called identical if they are identical on every language level, not just the lowest level.

Anyways continue the regularly scheduled Pakistani bashing and group thinking.

I am switching back to lurk mode :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby RajeshA » 30 Oct 2010 02:51

The cut-off date for what consists Urdu, the colloquial language spoken in the Gangetic Valley, is 14-15 August 1947.

After that whatever the Pakistanis added to it, in order to prove they were all Arab ki Aulad, is simply Arabic and a rape of Urdu.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby harbans » 30 Oct 2010 03:28

Ali ji,

Humara taluq Amerika sey hey

You just changed Main to Humara. Humara is also Hindi. So is Taluk from Taluka meaning village or a limited congregation of villages. Heather is right. The sentence structure is same. Nouns used may differ slightly or more as usage changes geographically. Syntax and structure is quite defined.

Check this out:

English: My name is Ali

Hindi: Mera Naam Ali hai

Urdu: Mera Naam Ali Hai

Japanese: Namae Wa Ali Desu. // Watashi wa Ali desu.

Classical Hindi which many Pakistani Posters were or assume is still largely used, yes, but common usage no it is not. It is for these reasons at times i love hearing All India Radio Samachar. But thats langauage and it does undergo change.

Try hearing speeches of American Presidents 1940's-50's. Check out American accents compared to how they spoke. Very different. You think the average Britisher today can understand Eglish as spoken in 1850? Believe me..most native British cannot.

Urdu is Persianized Hindi. And no Bollywood does'nt change it's language as many Pakistani posters claim it has because of Pakistani markets. Frankly people in India do admire the Muslim influence on Hindi too. Why do you think so many Muslim artistes succeed in the Bollywood Music world? It's because Indians don't politicize these things like that is done in Pakistan. Well if you want to change truth to an Arabized, Persian version..it simply won't remain the truth. And true beauty always will lie in the Truth Mr Ali. Lurk or no lurk mode.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Nandu » 30 Oct 2010 03:39

"Hip Muslim Moms" disbanded because one of the co-founders was wife of the Paki who wanted to bomb DC metro.

http://gawker.com/5675028/alleged-metro ... muslim-mom
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02600.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby MurthyB » 30 Oct 2010 03:55

Nandu wrote:"Hip Muslim Moms" disbanded because one of the co-founders was wife of the Paki who wanted to bomb DC metro.

http://gawker.com/5675028/alleged-metro ... muslim-mom
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02600.html


Naaah, maybe it was the irony of women in hijab claiming to be "hip".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Cosmo_R » 30 Oct 2010 04:17

^^^ Harbans. Well said.

Also, on 'Hip Muslim Moms': "It wasn't about being Muslim," one member said. "It was about interacting with other moms."

So why is the word "Muslim" inserted at every opportunity?

Probably planning 'exploding brownies'

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Ali » 30 Oct 2010 04:18

harbans wrote:Ali ji, .


Harbans Saheb,
Thanks for your kind reply. I think you are attributing a few things to me that I never stated in my post. Also I noticed that you have failed to provide linkage between ‘Nism-e-Girami’ and a similar Hindi word. The point of my post was that Hindi and Urdu are not identical languages, this claim was made somewhere on this page. Urdu has borrowed a lot of words from a lot of languages and Hindi is one of those languages, however the languages are not identical on many levels. Someone else mentioned that Pakistanis have basterdized the language to make it more Persian/Arabic. This is simply not true as you can look at poetry from Ghalib and Meer and notice a distinct style that is not present in Hindi. For example here are a few Gems from Ghalib


arz-e-niyaaz-e-ishq ke qaabil nahii.n rahaa
jis dil pe naaz thaa mujhe vo dil nahii.n rahaa

[niyaaz = offering]

jaataa huu.N daaG-e-hasarat-e-hastii liye hue
huu.N shammaa-e-kushtaa daraKhur-e-mahafil nahii.n rahaa

[shammaa-e-kushtaa = extinguished lamp; daraKhur = worthy]

marane kii ai dil aur hii tadabiir kar ki mai.n
shaayaan-e-dast-o-baazuu-e-qaatil nahii.n rahaa

I think it would be dishonest to claim that all the words in this verse are also present in Hindi. Please note that I have no animosity toward Hindi or I am deliberately trying to portray Urdu as something else. My point is simple that Urdu and Hindi may have common words but they are clearly not identical languages

Regards
Ali

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Abhijit » 30 Oct 2010 04:27

my name is ali
sun zara manchali
dil chura ke mera tu kahan chali?

excuse me to please
excuse me to please
excuse me to please (Dhoom 2, from the jaahil bollywood)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby harbans » 30 Oct 2010 04:41

Well taken Ali ji. You are right. Urdu and Hindi is not is not identical. But the syntax clearly shows Urdu is a deviant dialect from Hindi. By Deviant i don't mean it in a negative way. But growing in a particular direction in Pakistan. This is acknowledged by Heather too in the article. And frankly no one here will say Pakistani's have spoilt the language. I may be critical of Pakistan, but i will never say Pakistani's have not enriched Urdu whose syntax is derived from Hindi. All scientific studies if not tampered with will have to acknowledge Urdu as derived from Hindi as derived from Sanskrit even 5000 years down the line. And whats the shame or H & D problem there? All European languages are derivatives from Sanskrit. With possible exceptions of Basque and Finnish. That in no way implies Urdu is a lesser language. In the one upmanship with India, Pakistan should not distort historical truth or scientific analaysis. I hope you will agree with that. I love Urdu and i love it's Persianization, Arabization. It makes it rich and pleasant when well spoken. And Ali ji, thats possibly one of the best tributes yopu can hear on this thread. It is endorsed by hundreds of millions when they hear Pakistani artistes sing too. So no hard feelings here..not from my side. :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rupesh » 30 Oct 2010 04:45

MULTAN: A 23-year-old Pakistani man plans to marry two women in 24 hours, gaining national attention for his novel solution to a dilemma over wedding the woman he loves or going ahead with the marriage his family arranged.

Pakistani law allows polygamy based on the concept that Islam, the main religion in the country, allows up to four wives. But men who take multiple wives usually do so years apart and must get approval from their first wife prior to a second marriage.

Azhar Haidri initially refused to marry 28-year-old Humaira Qasim – the woman to whom he has been engaged since childhood – because he wanted to marry the woman with whom he had fallen in love, 21-year-old Rumana Aslam.

But the decision threatened to split his family apart since arranged marriages are often customary in Pakistan.

”I gave this offer that I will marry both of them,” Haidri told The Associated Press ahead of his first marriage to Qasim on Sunday in the central Pakistani city of Multan. ”Both the girls agreed.”


yawn

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 30 Oct 2010 05:36

surinder wrote:
Unfortunately, Indians have failed to drive the advantage: they happily subscribe to the view that Urdu is an independent, different language. Post-independence, government effort has been to Sanskritize the spoken language to carve space for Hindi. We should not contract. We should claim Urdu as nothing but Hindi.


I think the drive to Sanskritize Hindi essentially meant moving Hindi away from Urdu which is one way of making Urdu "different? All Hindi movies in an earlier era used to have the title in Hindi, English and Urdu and some of our best classic Bollywood songs from the 50s and 60s have Urdu in them. As far as I can recall from earlier discussions and reading Urdu was the local language of India (Hindustani? Need to check) with Persian added.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby negi » 30 Oct 2010 06:01

Ali wrote:It’s funny that I was lurking while you posted this and found this article interesting enough to post a reply. Hindi and Urdu maybe the same on a conversational level presumably because speaker of both languages created a lowest common denominator set of words to communicate and exchange ideas. However, the higher level constructs are quite different in both languages.
Jaeger quoted an article unless For example

Urdu: Mera nam Heather hai. Mai Angrezi bolti hu. Mai Amerika se hu. Aap ka nam kya hai?

In a slightly better Urdu would be

Humara Nism-e-garami Heather hey, Hum Angrezi bolti hein, Humara taluq Amerika sey hey. Ap ka Nism-e-Grami kya hey?

As you can see this is quite different from Hindi. This is even more apparent in Urdu Shayari which uses proper form of Urdu. Languages can only be called identical if they are identical on every language level, not just the lowest level.

And can you translate the above in bious Arabic too , should be easy and while you are at it kindly calculate the Lowest Common Denominator for both Urdu and Arabic compare it with the one you have for Urdu and Hindi and let us know. 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Prem » 30 Oct 2010 06:01

Ordoo is another detrious element of dreadful bygone era which ought to have been thrown out in 47. Unlike English language 's contribution in advancing scientific and techinical knowledge in India , Ordoo is of pure Kanjarkhaanic value and not worth promoting unless doing favour to Persian script.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Mauli » 30 Oct 2010 06:23

URDU HAD REMAINED A FOREIGN LANGUAGE

Before we pass on to the storm raised over Urdu by the residues of Islamic imperialism, we should like to quote what Professor Aziz Ahmad has said about this language. He writes: “The poets of Delhi, proud of the ‘pure’ Urdu of the imperial camp, rejected the Dakani principle and practice of borrowing extensively from the Indian languages, especially if these borrowings were related to Hindu religion, culture and world-view… In this process imagery was drawn exclusively from Persian precedents, i.e., from the unseen and unexperienced sights, sounds and smells of Persia and Central Asia, rejecting totally the Indian sights, sounds and sensuous experience as materials regarded not sublime enough for poetic expression… It was a desperate unconscious clinging to the origins of the symbols of Muslim India’s cultural experience which had begun abroad, and an instinctive fear of being submerged into the Hindu cultural milieu. These modes of aesthetic appreciation, rooted so deeply in the essence of universal Islamic culture, remained more or less incomprehensible to the Hindu mind. Its reaction has been summed up by [S.K.] Chatterjee: “Throughout the whole range of Urdu literature in its first phase… the atmosphere of this literature is provokingly un-Indian - it is that of Persia. Early Urdu poets never so much as mention the great physical features of India - its Himalayas, its rivers like the Ganges, the Jamuna, the Sindhu, the Godavari, etc; but of course mountains and streams of Persia, and rivers of Central Asia are always there. Indian flowers, Indian plants are unknown; only Persian flowers and plants which the poet could see only in a garden. There was a deliberate shutting of the eye to everything Indian, to everything not mentioned or treated in Persian poetry… A language and literature which came to base itself upon an ideology which denied on the Indian soil the very existence of India and Indian culture, could not but be met with a challenge from some of the Indian adherents of their national culture; and that challenge was in the form of highly Sanskritized Hindi’.”2

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/muslimsep/ch9.htm


WHERE IS THE COMPOSITE CULTURE?

NOR IN SCIENCE, OR LITERATURE

Hindu and Muslim literary traditions have been two separate streams which have hardly influenced one another. Indian languages have borrowed and assimilated many Arabic, Turkish, and Persian words. But these classic languages of Islam have remained, by and large, impervious to Hindu linguistic influences. They have kept every word of Indian origin at an arm’s length. Urdu held some promise because its syntax as well as a large part of its diction had its roots in this land. But Muslims started claiming Urdu as the language of their culture, and the bridge that might have been built was destroyed. Over the years, this language has been heavily Arabicised and Persianised, and made more or less Greek for the Hindus at large.

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/siii/ch11.htm

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Rony » 30 Oct 2010 06:52

Ali wrote: My point is simple that Urdu and Hindi may have common words but they are clearly not identical languages


I think you are missing the point. The Point is Hindi and Urdu have Sanskrit roots.Both of them trace their roots to Hindustani which traces its roots to Sanskrit.Urdu (which means army encampment) was spoken by Central Asian muslim soilders to talk with the masses.Masses here basically means people who spoke proto-Hindi .But since the central asians at that time were turkic in origin but culturally persianized and muslim, urdu eventually had lot of persian , turkish and arabic words.

Now, which one of the above facts are you denying , Ali ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby atma » 30 Oct 2010 08:14

Subject: the blue pigeon

The Mayor of London, England was very worried about a plague of pigeons in the City Centre

He could not remove the pigeons from the city. All of London was full of pigeon poop, the people of London could not walk on the pavements, or drive on the roads. It was costing a fortune to keep the streets and pavements clean.

One day a man came to the Town Hall and offered the Mayor a proposition.

'I can rid your beautiful city of its plague of pigeons without any cost to the city. But, you must promise not to ask me any
questions.

Or, you can pay me one million pounds to ask one question.'

The mayor considered the offer briefly and accepted the free proposition.

The next day the man climbed to the top of the Nelson's Column, opened his coat, and released a blue pigeon. The blue pigeon circled in the air and flew up into the bright blue London sky.

All the pigeons in London saw the blue pigeon and gathered up in the air behind the bird. The London pigeons followed the blue pigeon as she flew eastwards out of the city.

The next day the blue pigeon returned completely alone to the man on top of Nelson's Column

The Mayor was very impressed. He felt the man and the blue pigeon had performed a wonderful miraculous service to rid London of the plague of pigeons.

Even though the man with the pigeon had charged nothing, the mayor presented him with a check for 1 million pounds and told the man that, indeed, he did have a question to ask and even though they had agreed to no fee and the man had rid the city of pigeons, he decided to pay the 1 million just to get to ask ONE question.

The man accepted the money and told the mayor to ask his ONE question.


The mayor asked: 'Do you have a blue Pakistani????

:rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby Dipanker » 30 Oct 2010 08:32

Ali wrote:
harbans wrote:Ali ji, .


Harbans Saheb,
Thanks for your kind reply. I think you are attributing a few things to me that I never stated in my post. Also I noticed that you have failed to provide linkage between ‘Nism-e-Girami’ and a similar Hindi word. The point of my post was that Hindi and Urdu are not identical languages, this claim was made somewhere on this page. Urdu has borrowed a lot of words from a lot of languages and Hindi is one of those languages, however the languages are not identical on many levels. Someone else mentioned that Pakistanis have basterdized the language to make it more Persian/Arabic. This is simply not true as you can look at poetry from Ghalib and Meer and notice a distinct style that is not present in Hindi. For example here are a few Gems from Ghalib


arz-e-niyaaz-e-ishq ke qaabil nahii.n rahaa
jis dil pe naaz thaa mujhe vo dil nahii.n rahaa

[niyaaz = offering]

jaataa huu.N daaG-e-hasarat-e-hastii liye hue
huu.N shammaa-e-kushtaa daraKhur-e-mahafil nahii.n rahaa

[shammaa-e-kushtaa = extinguished lamp; daraKhur = worthy]

marane kii ai dil aur hii tadabiir kar ki mai.n
shaayaan-e-dast-o-baazuu-e-qaatil nahii.n rahaa

I think it would be dishonest to claim that all the words in this verse are also present in Hindi. Please note that I have no animosity toward Hindi or I am deliberately trying to portray Urdu as something else. My point is simple that Urdu and Hindi may have common words but they are clearly not identical languages

Regards
Ali


Ali Mia,

Hindi-Urdu are same language, when you don't know you should ask the expert!

Here is an article written by Dr. Afroz Taj, who teaches Hindi-Urdu at University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

http://www.unc.edu/~taj/abturdu.htm
ABOUT HINDI-URDU
The following is an excerpt from the Introduction to Afroz Taj's book Urdu Through Hindi: Nastaliq With the Help of Devanagari (New Delhi: Rangmahal Press, 1997)

South Asia is an area of enormous linguistic diversity. As one travels from town to town, or from region to region, accents change, dialects change, and languages change. The dividing lines between languages are often not clear, being blurred by a proliferation of overlapping and interlacing dialects. Even on the same street one can find very different "languages": the engineering student will speak differently from the poet, the servant will speak differently from the priest.

What then defines a language? What makes a language unique? Its writing system? Its vocabulary? Or its grammatical structure? We should not make the mistake of confusing a language with its writing system. Often, unrelated languages share a common writing system, while any language can be transcribed into a new writing system without affecting its basic sounds and structure. Indeed most of the world's languages borrowed their writing systems from somebody else. For example, English, French, and Spanish borrowed their writing systems from Latin. The Latin alphabet was in turn derived from the Greek alphabet. Japanese adopted the Chinese word-characters. Both Indonesian and Turkish switched from the Arabic to the Roman writing system early in the Twentieth Century without being otherwise changed significantly. English can be written in Morse Code, Braille, binary computer code, or even in the Hindi writing system and it still remains English.

Vocabulary is likewise not characteristic of a language. Words are readily borrowed between languages like dry leaves blown about in the wind. No language can claim a pure, fixed and unchanging vocabulary. Indeed, it is often impossible to express oneself in English without using words borrowed from French, Latin, or even Hindi.

Thus it is only grammatical structure that can be said to characterize a language. No matter which writing system is used, no matter which vocabulary words are used, a language's grammar will follow regular and characteristic rules. These rules, which govern verb conjugation, noun declension, plural formation, syntax, etc., are largely consistent within a language but differ between languages. Thus a comparative study of these rules allows us to distinguish one language from another.

Therefore Hindi and Urdu, which share a common, identical grammatical structure, must be considered a single language: Hindi-Urdu.
How did Hindi-Urdu develop, and why does it have two names? Let's look at the linguistic condition of India about one thousand years ago. The Indo-Aryan language family, brought to South Asia by the Aryans in prehistoric times, had become firmly established in a belt running from the Persian Caucasus in the West to the Bay of Bengal in the East. The descendent languages of Sanskrit, including several dialects of early Hindi, Medieval Panjabi, Gujarati, Marathi, and Bengali, as well as their cousin tongue Persian were emerging in their respective regions. The Indian languages had adopted the ancient Sanskrit writing system, Devanagari, in various forms, while Persian had borrowed the Arabic writing system from its neighbors to the West. Hindi, in various dialects including Khariboli, Braj Bhasha and Awadhi, was spoken throughout North Central India.

Then, about seven centuries ago, the dialects of Hindi spoken in the region of Delhi began to undergo a linguistic change. In the villages, these dialects continued to be spoken much as they had been for centuries. But around Delhi and other urban areas, under the influence of the Persian-speaking Sultans and their military administration, a new dialect began to emerge which would be called Urdu. While Urdu retained the fundamental grammar and basic vocabulary of its Hindi parent dialects, it adopted the Persian writing system, "Nastaliq" and many additional Persian vocabulary words. Indeed, the great poet Amir Khusro (1253-1325) contributed to the early development of Urdu by writing poems with alternating lines of Persian and Hindi dialect written in Persian script.

What began humbly as a hodge-podge language spoken by the Indian recruits in the camps of the Sultan's army, by the Eighteenth Century had developed into a sophisticated, poetic language.

It is important to note that over the centuries, Urdu continued to develop side by side with the original Hindi dialects, and many poets have written comfortably in both. Thus the distinction between Hindi and Urdu was chiefly a question of style. A poet could draw upon Urdu's lexical richness to create an aura of elegant sophistication, or could use the simple rustic vocabulary of dialect Hindi to evoke the folk life of the village. Somewhere in the middle lay the day to day language spoken by the great majority of people. This day to day language was often referred to by the all-encompassing term "Hindustani."

Because day to day Hindustani was essentially a widespread Indian lingua franca not associated with any particular region or class, it was chosen as the basis for modern Hindi, the national language of India. Modern Hindi is essentially Hindustani with a lexicon of Sanskrit-derived vocabulary in preference to the Persian borrowings of literary Urdu. Likewise, Hindustani in its Urdu form was adopted by Pakistan as a national language because Urdu is not tied to any of the regions comprising modern Pakistan. Thus a language which is really nobody's mother tongue is today the second most spoken language in the world, understood throughout most of the populous Indian subcontinent and in many unexpected corners of the globe.

If we were to draw a picture of the relationship between all of these various versions of Hindi-Urdu, it might look something like this:

[Persian] Literary Urdu --------- Modern Hindi [Sanskrit]

------------------Hindi-Urdu (Hindustani)---------------

-----------------Hindi Dialects (Khariboli, Braj, etc.)-----



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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby naved » 30 Oct 2010 09:06

It aint no conspiracy. The pukes got no money anyway that bollywood would want.
The reason pukes can understand bollywood is because the films are made in 'Hindustani', not hindi. I doubt anyone speaks pure hindi anymore, in everyday life, we all speak hindustani. Its that lovely mishmash of hindi, farsi, english, maybe a little czech and sudanese thrown in too lol.
Throw some arabic and a pinch more farsi in hindustani, and you got yourself spoken urdu. The basic structure of hindi and urdu is the same, its just the difference in influence. Hindi has retained more sanskrit, while urdu got in some arabic and persian in exchange...
Pukes unfortunately would have us believe the chemical formula of salt is different in pukistan than it is in India, but in saltiness, its equal-equal onlee.......

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby vic » 30 Oct 2010 10:51

shiv wrote:
surinder wrote:
Unfortunately, Indians have failed to drive the advantage: they happily subscribe to the view that Urdu is an independent, different language. Post-independence, government effort has been to Sanskritize the spoken language to carve space for Hindi. We should not contract. We should claim Urdu as nothing but Hindi.


I think the drive to Sanskritize Hindi essentially meant moving Hindi away from Urdu which is one way of making Urdu "different? All Hindi movies in an earlier era used to have the title in Hindi, English and Urdu and some of our best classic Bollywood songs from the 50s and 60s have Urdu in them. As far as I can recall from earlier discussions and reading Urdu was the local language of India (Hindustani? Need to check) with Persian added.



Urdu was official language for lower level work in lot of Areas like United Punjab, Delhi etc and taught in schools. Delhi Legal systems still retains lot of Urdu words

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby CRamS » 30 Oct 2010 12:01

atma:

It was too long, and I got a tad lost towards the end, and hence it took me a few seconds (tube light onlee :-)) to get, bt its awesome :-). Nice and easy way to get rid of Paki roaches. As much as I can't stand Brits for their past, London is such a magnificent city, it would be better off without Paki filth.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby r_subramanian » 30 Oct 2010 13:09

The senior-most bureaucrat dealing with Pakistan's finances has some cheerful news. He is warning that the entire economy may collapse due to Power sector debt and losses of governemnt-owned enterprises.
Power sector debt, PSEs losses, other issues: entire economy may collapse, warns Salman
Secretary, Finance, Salman Siddique, on Friday warned that the entire economy might collapse, leading to international default, if the power sector debt and other economic issues were not managed amicably through immediate structural reforms in public sector entities.
Giving a realistic picture of the current state of economy, he informed the special committee of the Public Accounts Committee that the government has to immediately take 'undesirable' measures to improve the performance of public sector enterprises (PSEs) eating up precious national resources, instead of contributing to the production-starved economy.
...
The PR {Pakistan Railway} is facing a financial deficit of around Rs 40 billion due to corruption, lack of locomotives and losses incurred by running passenger trains. Around Rs 21 billion is paid under the head of wages and pensions every month. The PR has only 590 engines out of which 290 locomotives have become out of order while remaining engine are not able to operate for train service, he added
.
link

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby shiv » 30 Oct 2010 14:58

r_subramanian wrote:The senior-most bureaucrat dealing with Pakistan's finances has some cheerful news. He is warning that the entire economy may collapse due to Power sector debt and losses of governemnt-owned enterprises.
Power sector debt, PSEs losses, other issues: entire economy may collapse, warns Salman
Secretary, Finance, Salman Siddique, on Friday warned that the entire economy might collapse, leading to international default, if the power sector debt and other economic issues were not managed amicably through immediate structural reforms in public sector entities.
Giving a realistic picture of the current state of economy, he informed the special committee of the Public Accounts Committee that the government has to immediately take 'undesirable' measures to improve the performance of public sector enterprises (PSEs) eating up precious national resources, instead of contributing to the production-starved economy.
...
The PR {Pakistan Railway} is facing a financial deficit of around Rs 40 billion due to corruption, lack of locomotives and losses incurred by running passenger trains. Around Rs 21 billion is paid under the head of wages and pensions every month. The PR has only 590 engines out of which 290 locomotives have become out of order while remaining engine are not able to operate for train service, he added
.
link



Here is a great map of Pakistan's railways
http://www.pamirtours.pk/maps/PAKISTAN% ... %20MAP.jpg

There appears to be no railway track north of Islamabd and no track to Gwadar. How is China going to have a rail link to Gwadar? Djinns?

The distance from Islamabad to the Kunjerab pass is 900 km and from Karachi to Gwadar is 700 km. Blothel will have to lay 1600 km of tracks in Pakistan.

Apparently the sea rote to Shanghai is 16,000 km but the land route to the Chinee border from Gwadar is 2500 plus km. Of that only 1100 km Islamabad to Karachi has tracks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Oct. 20, 2

Postby James B » 30 Oct 2010 15:07

Urdu is a wonderful Indian language. Pakistan borrowed it. What it does with that is not our business.


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