Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

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Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

Postby Pranay » 28 Dec 2010 23:57

Link to last page of previous TSP Thread: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010


The following links are background articles on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:


Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

Whither Pakistan ? Growing Instability and Implications for India: an IDSA e-Book, July 2010
http://idsa.in/book/WhitherPakistan

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part I
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... art-1.html

Prof. Walter Russell Mead, "Pakistan's Failed National Strategy"
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -strategy/

"Pakistan Is", by Barry Bearak in New York Times Magazine, December 7, 2003.
Brings out succinctly various facets of Pakistani perfidy, obsession, fundamentalism etc.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... nted=print

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part II
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... -upon.html

BEYOND MADRASAS: ASSESSING THE LINKS BETWEEN EDUCATION AND MILITANCY IN PAKISTAN
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... nthrop.pdf

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

The Battle for Pakistan: Militancy and Conflict in Pakistan's Tribal Regions
http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/ ... r_pakistan

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)


MISCELLANEOUS

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto telling Bangladeshis to "Go to Hell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsxfyxa ... re=related

IDSA's weekly summary of Pak Urdu Press:

http://www.idsa.in/pup
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five installment series by Kapil Komireddi published in Frum Forum

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad

A perceptive blog on Pakistan: http://pak-watch.blogspot.com/

Declassified documents from US National Archives on Pakistan:

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/pakistan.htm
_______________________________________________

Admission of state sponsored terrorism by Pakistani authorities


see this Der Spigel Interview where Musharraf admits to that.

On 7th Nov in TimesNow Channel, Tasneem Noorani, a former Secretary of the Pakistani Interior Ministry, openly said that.

Kiyani called the Haqqanis as strategic assets.

In Dec. 2008, President Zardari himself admitted to ISI helping LeT. He said,"The links between the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency and the LeT were developed in the old days when dictators used to run the country. After the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, things have changed to a great extent"

In an address to bureaucrats in July 2009, President Zardari said: "Militants and extremists were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives. Let us be truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities. The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11 occurred and they began to haunt us as well"

In Nov. 2009, Prime Minister Gilani admitted to the support for terrorism by Musharraf as "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds".

When Bush warned the Pakistanis in August 2008 of their support to Al Qaeda, Afrasiab Khattak, President of Awami National Party (ANP) said this: "The question is why it has taken the Americans so long to see what the ISI is doing. We’ve been telling them for years but they wouldn’t buy it.". See here.

In an interview to the BBC as far back as on Feb. 13, 1994, Benazir Bhutto admitted how she handed over to Rajiv Gandhi the complete list of Sikh activists colluding with the ISI in terrorism in the Punjab. Later, Nawaz Sharif described this interview as a faux pas.

Apart from these, of course, numerous Pakistani commentators, analysts, and editors have openly admitted to terror as a state policy.


-----------------------------
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/29/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

American and NATO officials said they had seen evidence of loose cooperation among other insurgent groups, including Lashkar-e-Taiba and Tehrik-i-Taliban.

Lashkar is a Punjabi group, and is considered one of the most serious long-term threats inside Pakistan. The Punjabi groups, many of which were created by Pakistani intelligence to fight India’s interests in Kashmir, now appear to be teaming up with Pashtun groups like the Afghan and Pakistan Taliban to fight their creators, the Pakistani intelligence and security services.

Pentagon and military officials who routinely engage with Pakistani counterparts said officials in Islamabad agree with the new American and NATO assessments.

“This is actually a syndicate of related and associated militant groups and networks,” said one American officer, summarizing the emerging view of Pakistani officials. “Trying to parse them, as if they have firewalls in between them, is really kind of silly. They cooperate with each other. They franchise work with each other.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby shynee » 29 Dec 2010 01:03

India blocks chemicals import from Pakistan
Industry sources revealed that the Indian authorities have announced to impose anti-dumping duty on imports of soda ash from Pakistan from March next.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Prem » 29 Dec 2010 02:46

Dont Laugh at this best intellectual product of Poakislam, :twisted:
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=68455
India’s shopping spree & appalling poverty
Mohammad Jahil
India is on a shopping spree with more than $100 billion in hand, and entering into defence deals left, right and centre. After signing nuclear deal with the US, Nuclear Suppliers Group’s countries are ready to sell materials and equipment to India. Apart from France, Britain, Germany, Japan - and strong opponent of nuclear proliferation – eyes the lucrative market; and they all are drooling to benefit from India’s economic development and prodigious indicators of economic growth. But they would not cares less that India as a state is rich but it is land of appalling poverty where more than 400 million people are living below a meanly defined poverty line. France signed worth $20 billion out of which 9.3-billion-dollar framework agreement was for selling two nuclear reactors to India during a trade-centred visit in July this year by French President Nicolas Sarkozy to New Delhi. Deals totalling 15 billion euros (20 billion dollars) were signed with Indian companies including a leasing agreement for 14 Airbus planes and the modernisation of 51 French-made Mirage fighter jets. “Negotiations (with Areva) have reached an advanced stage to pave the way for the launching of nuclear power reactors in partnership with Indian industry,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had told a joint press conference with President Sarkozy. The deal is short of a final sale contract, but it means Areva has moved ahead of US and Japanese competitors in the race to sell reactors to India, which aims to tap atomic power for a quarter of its electricity demands by 2050. Sarkozy reiterated his support for India to have a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council - a key foreign policy objective for New Delhi - and suggested it might simply upgrade its current temporary seat in 2012. India is to jointly build a surface-to-air missile with the second biggest weapons supplier Israel and hopes for such collaborations with the other countries. After signing civil nuclear agreement with the US, it will acquire nuclear plants to enhance its capability to make more nuclear devices. Last year, the USS Trentonn, the giant American landing platform dock, was inducted in Indian navy for which order was placed by India for Rs 215 crores in 2007. It was re-christened INS Jalashwa. The acquisition of the INS Jalashva was meant to enormously boost the sealift capability of the Indian Navy. It is equipped with four landing mechanised craft and can carry up to 1,000 troops along with vehicles, tanks, artillery, ammunition and tracked landing vehicles. India has also increased its defence budget, and is poised to spend at least $50 billion on installation of nuclear power plants, which will enhance its capacity and capability to increase it nuclear arsenal. After Indo-US nuclear deal, India has the capacity to increase from its current production capacity of six to 10 additional nuclear bombs a year to several dozen per year.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev’s visit to India is the latest in a series of high-profile visits by leaders of almost all major countries. A slew of 30 agreements signed by the two sides, covering areas ranging from nuclear and space co-operation, defence and business to counter-terrorism and culture, shows the expanded scope of the relationship. The multi-million dollar programme for joint production of a fifth generation fighter aircraft could be a milestone in collaboration. India’s traditional defence relationship with Russia was that of a customer, with Moscow meeting 70 per cent of its arms and equipment requirements. But the fighter aircraft programme takes it to a new level of partnership marked by joint development and collaboration. Russia has also offered the best terms in its defence deals, supplying India with technologies and hardware, like nuclear submarines, which other countries were not willing to give, and without restrictive conditions like end-user clauses. He also extended full support for India’s bid for permanent membership of the UN Security Council and other bodies like the Nuclear Suppliers Group. The visit made it clear that bilateral ties are not only strong but are poised to become stronger. Germany is making a bid for selling Eurofighter Typhoon combat jets to India when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh goes to Berlin next month, a day-long trip that will focus on expanding the strategic relationship between the two would-be non-permanent members of the UN Security Council. Manmohan Singh visited Britain and Germany after attending India’s summit with the 27-nation European Union (EU) in Brussels. This was the second visit by Manmohan Singh to Berlin since he became the country’s prime minister over six years ago. Manmohan Singh and Merkel met recently at the G20 summit of major and emerging economies in Seoul. Manmohan Singh and Merkel are expected to focus on expanding defence relationship and enlarging the scope of their strategic dialogue on key global issues like UN reforms, the international financial crisis, counter-terrorism, non-proliferation and climate change. Germany will contend that the Eurofighter offer is unique as it involves technology transfer and is likely to stress that it is ready to forego the End-User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) that even India’s close partners like the US insist on.
New Delhi has recently allocated $11 billion to build and buy six new-generation submarines in what will be one of the biggest military contracts that India has signed. The Times of India has reported that the Defense Acquisitions Council, chaired by federal Defense Minister A.K. Antony, took the decision on the deal. A sum of $12 has been earmarked for the purchase of 126 multi-role fighters for the Indian Air Force. Six global aerospace companies, Lockheed Martin, Boeing (American), Dassault’s Rafale (French), Gripen (Sweden), MIG (Russian) and Eurofighter Typhoon (a consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish companies), are bidding for the deal. A fresh contract for aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov’s refit for over $2.3 billion is also being negotiated with Moscow. India’s Prime Minister is perched on a booming national economy and a lot of cash, which he is throwing around on massive arms’ purchases and lucrative business deals to buy loyalties, votes for India’s bid for UNSC, and for scurrilous slights that German Chancellor and French President have dealt Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Dec 2010 03:09

Gandhi's question to Jinnah, September 15, 1944, inquiring about the independent sovereign states of the Lahore Resolution of 1940; 10th question of 15:

"10. Please satisfy me that these Independent Sovereign States will not become a collection of poor States, a menace to themselves and to the rest of India."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Ananya » 29 Dec 2010 03:16

Adnan’s property seized in India

Looks like India has started adopting a non co-operation technique now....

http://www.dawn.com/2010/12/28/adnan%e2 ... india.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Rupesh » 29 Dec 2010 03:34

but it is land of appalling poverty where more than 400 million people are living below a meanly defined poverty line.

Lies.. he should know that there are more than 1 Billion people below poverty line :(( ( should have checked with S. Roy )

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby anupmisra » 29 Dec 2010 05:24

Prem wrote:Dont Laugh at this best intellectual product of Poakislam, :twisted:
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=68455
India’s shopping spree & appalling poverty


Jahil's use of the term "prodigious (colossal: so great in size or force or extent as to elicit awe) indicators of economic growth" betrays his and his fellow pa'astanis' envy. Other than that, the rant is all about a run down of India's deals with western and other developed nations. The only mention of "appalling poverty" is a one-liner that most pakis love to use " 400 million people below the poverty line".

Heck, the "glass is half full" moaners don't see the other side of the story. There are 800 million people who are above the poverty line which is more than the combined populations of Europe (400 Million) and USA (300 Million) combined.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby arun » 29 Dec 2010 08:05

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, self-claimed haven for the Muslim’s of the Indian sub-continent, students belonging to the minority Shia* sect of Islam are targeted by a bomb as they gather for prayer on the campus of Karachi University. (*The Imamia Student Organisation (ISO) is a Shia Muslim outfit).

Four ISO students injured in blast at Karachi University

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Dec 2010 11:32

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 12/29/2010

LAHORE: Qari Saifullah Akhtar, the al-Qaeda-linked ameer of the Harkatul Jehadul Islami (HUJI), has been freed by the Punjab government under mysterious circumstances despite the fact that he is still wanted in several high-profile cases of terrorism.

His most significant target was to blow up the Chashma Nuclear Power Plant at Kundian, Punjab, by using a group of five Americans who had already been convicted by an anti-terrorism court in June 2010 on terrorism charges.


However, it is not for the first time that Qari Saifullah, believed to be a tool of the intelligence establishment, has eluded prosecution. Though his role in the Karachi suicide attack targeting the welcome procession of Benazir Bhutto could not be explored further due to an apparent lack of interest by the agencies, his previous involvement in a failed coup plot in 1995 had projected him as one of the deadliest militants who, from the establishment’s viewpoint, had gone astray. A total of 40 army officers were arrested by the Military Intelligence (MI), including four serving army officers, headed by Major General Zaheerul Islam Abbasi and Brigadier Mustansar Billa. However, Qari Saifullah was described as the ideologue of the religiously motivated khakis. The arrested army officers were accused of plotting to first take over the General Headquarters of the Pakistan Army in Rawalpindi during the Corps Commanders Conference and overthrow the Benazir government to enforce Khilafat system in Pakistan.

Qari Saifullah was arrested on September 23, 1995 when the Pakistani Customs Intelligence personnel stopped a Brigadier’s staff car, which was leading a cavalcade of several vehicles, including a truck carrying arms and ammunition. Video and audio cassettes of their statements that were to be broadcast on the state run TV and radio after the coup were also discovered. The arrested comprised two groups, the inner group of plotters who attempted to topple the government and the larger group of sympathisers who extended their moral/verbal support and were more or less motivated by their plan to extend complete support to the cause of mujahedeen in Jammu Kashmir. It was further revealed that the plan included plotting to kill Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and some cabinet members including the incumbent President Asif Ali Zardari, who was a federal minister at that time.

The Field General Court Martial (FGCM) was constituted at Attock and was presided by Major General Zahid Hasan amongst four other officers (two Brigadiers and two Colonels including then Brigadier — later Lieutenant General — Javed Alam Khan. The suspects were charged under the Pakistan Army Act, 1952 and Pakistan Penal Code for “conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline”, “conspiring to wage war against Pakistan” and “attempting to seduce any person from his allegiance to the government”.

However, the trial proved quite easy as Qari Saifullah Akhtar decided to become approver against his fellow plotters and acted as a star prosecution witness. There was documentary evidence in the form of the tapes, arms and ammunition and none of the accused really denied the charges either. After investigations were completed, the FGCM started its proceedings on December 31, 1995 and the sentences were announced on October 30, 1996.

The coup plotters were convicted by the FGCM and awarded different sentences ranging from two to 14 years. Qari Saifullah was kept under protective custody for a few months and as soon as the second Bhutto government was dismissed in 1996, he was set free by the agencies; he went to Afghanistan and was inducted into the cabinet of the Taliban ameer, Mulla Omar, as his adviser on political affairs.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2010 13:34

More info on Qari Saifullah Akhtar . . .

HuJI traces its origin to Jamiat Ansar-ul-Afghaneen (Companion of the Afghans) founded in February 1980 in Karachi’s Jamia Binoria by Maulana Irshad Ahmad, Maulana Muhammad Akhtar and Maulana Abdul Samad Sial. HuJI itself was founded in circa 1984 by Qari Saifullah Akhtar (original name Maulana Muhammad Akhtar), Haji Nasrullah Langriyal (who is still in an Indian jail) and Fazlur Rehman Khalil who later broke away to form his own group, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM).

Qari Saifullah Akhtar, (‘Saifullah' meaning ‘Sword of Allah’ was a pseudonym that Maulana Muhammad Akhtar took) is a Pashtun from Waziristan and a product of Karachi’s Jamia Binori. He became political adviser to Mullah Omar in Afghanistan and built terror training camps in Kandahar, Kabul and Khost.

Because of his closeness to Mullah Omar, his group, HuJI was originally called ‘Punjabi Taliban’. When the Taliban fell after 9/11, he first fled to South Waziristan, then to Saudi Arabia and finally to UAE from where he was arrested. He was arrested in Dubai and extradited to Pakistan on Aug 8, 2004.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Ambar » 29 Dec 2010 13:44

Is this the same Qari Saifullah who allegedly attempted to assassinate Nawaz Sharif in 1999?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2010 16:00

Ambar wrote:Is this the same Qari Saifullah who allegedly attempted to assassinate Nawaz Sharif in 1999?

No, that operation to assassinate Nawaz Sharif near Raiwind was by another organization, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, which wanted to eliminate Nawaz for ordering the arrest of the dreaded terrorist and the Emir of LeJ, Riyaz Basra.

Qari Mohammed Zafar (not to be confused with Qari Hussain Mehsud, aka Ustad-e-Fidayeen, of TTP who trains suicide bombers), a key member of LeJ co-ordinated closely with Al Qaeda and the Taliban. He carried a $5 Million reward on his head and had been seen along with TTP Amir Hakeemullah Mehsud. The TTP announced Qari Zafar’s death in a US drone attack at Dargah Mandi in North Waziristan on Feb. 24, 2010. Qari Zafar was the mastermind of attacks on a Special Investigation Unit (SIU) office in Model Town Lahore, Marriot Hotel, FIA building and American consulate in Karachi. He was under the custody of Punjab’s Special Investigation Unit but escaped in October 2007.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Dec 2010 18:06

arun wrote:..students belonging to the minority Shia* sect of Islam are targeted by a bomb as they gather for prayer on the campus of Karachi University. (*The Imamia Student Organisation (ISO) is a Shia Muslim outfit).

Four ISO students injured in blast at Karachi University

Worse, that campus canteen must have mardana and zanana mixing in the open and sitting together - one must understand that they are wajib-ul-cattle just for that.

The revolution is arriving in Karachi it seems.

Remember, karachi is a dynamite stockpile, with everyone armed to the teeth - the Mohajirs of the MQM, The Pashtoons and the Talibs, The Baloch, and finally the ISI sponsored Jihadi outfits. Each have demarcated areas which they protect with the force of arms. If the revolution reaches Karachi, that city will begin to resemble Beirut of the 70s and the 80s.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby menon s » 29 Dec 2010 19:11

dear administrator,
request you to please add this book, A nation in chains, by G M Syed, in our list of references that happen in the front of TSP page. The book and the thoughts are very important. It is one amongst the books the north block forwarded to late Holbrooke. im not saying he changed his mind about AF PAK IND by reading this book, but he was influenced by the arguments. North Block and its achievements are never glamorous ,because they are deliberately intended in that fashion. The link to the PDF is here for your to peruse. Thank you.
http://panhwar.com/BooksbySani/A_Nation_in_Chains.pdf

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Vikas » 29 Dec 2010 20:37

Karachi has what Rahul Mehta has been demanding, Right to bear arms by commoners. Everyone and his uncle is loaded with weapons in Karachi.
On top, various groups in Karachi are fiercely protective about the area they control.
No one is going to cede even a single inch to opposition group with bloody knuckles fight. Add to it the various Money Laundering , centers,gun running ops, Transport business involving movement of material for NATO forces and drug cartels and lo we have a potent mix.
The party that has some semblance of control over all these entities is PA though no one knows how much.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Vikas » 29 Dec 2010 20:49

menon s wrote:dear administrator,
request you to please add this book, A nation in chains, by G M Syed, in our list of references that happen in the front of TSP page. The book and the thoughts are very important. It is one amongst the books the north block forwarded to late Holbrooke. im not saying he changed his mind about AF PAK IND by reading this book, but he was influenced by the arguments. North Block and its achievements are never glamorous ,because they are deliberately intended in that fashion. The link to the PDF is here for your to peruse. Thank you.
http://panhwar.com/BooksbySani/A_Nation_in_Chains.pdf


It would be well to realize that when the Sindhi people could not tolerate the Sindhi Hindu vested interests exploiting them,


The Hindu vested interests in Sindh came in the way and sabotaged all efforts to translate the program into practice. The congress Assembly party, consisting mainly of Hindu members elected by separate Hindu electorate could not prevent this
stalling of reforms by the Hindu vested interests


Seeing the group of the Hindu vested interests as less in number but more organized and
thorough in their exploitation of the people, we decided first to mount our attack on them.

Lets not forget that even among so called liberal Sindhis, there is a clear demarcation between Sindhi people (Muslims) and Sindhi Hindu.
Secondly like a true Paki, all the problems originated with Hindus exploiting poor Muslims. It is always someone else's fault.
The goons who abduct Hindu girls,Rape them and then force them to convert are not outsiders. They are pucca Sindhis only.
Good for Pakistani Sindhis that Terrorist army has got them under their jackboot.

Personally I am opposed to any sort of Papiya-Jhapiya relations with anyone who has Paki blood.
Last edited by Vikas on 29 Dec 2010 22:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby menon s » 29 Dec 2010 21:55

to vikas raina,
im not a wagha kandle kisser. im the one who believes that Pakistan is a unnatural nation state, that has to die in time, because it defies all standards of a modern nation state. dying it is and die it will. A loy Afghanistan, that is nothing but greater Afghanistan, that includes Pakthoonwa and Baluchistan, will be there . Pashtoons are now realising that their faith is being now over exploited by Punjabi's, not for their benefit , but for Punjabis alone. Sindh will be semi independent and India will have to support Punjab! When the dismembered Indian map was shown to Gandhiji, Sardar Patel said a " 2/3rds of India is available to you now, accept it, the other 1/3rd will fall in place the day India is politically and economically more powerful" . My grandpa used to work for V P Menon. These words are from, my grandfathers diary, late Sri A G Nair, a farmers son,from the village of Ottappalam, Palghat, Kerala,who retired as the comptroller of defense accounts, in New Delhi. We need to dismember Pakistan for peace. There is no other go.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Vikas » 29 Dec 2010 22:09

menon s wrote:to vikas raina,
Sardar Patel said a " 2/3rds of India is available to you now, accept it, the other 1/3rd will fall in place the day India is politically and economically more powerful" .

Menon ji, I respect your opinion but we are way passed the point where we could have or would have included 1/3 back in Mother India.
The 1/3 now represent 2 independent sovereign countries one which is occupied by rabid crazy population who we should not touch with a barge pole.
Of course just because Sardar Patel said something does not mean it will come true.
Rest everything is wishful thinking without a serious thought about how it may cause further headache for us.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby JE Menon » 29 Dec 2010 22:23

>>but we are way passed the point where we could have or would have included 1/3 back in Mother India.

No boss, we are most assuredly not. But it is not something that will happen overnight. There are certain things we need to address first. Then the roll-back will be gradual but natural.

Not that I don't see the essential point you are making, i.e the wishful thinking part. Perhaps if the problem of reintegration was defined differently, you might see it in a different way :)

Hell, if the option of getting the 1/3rd back became available now - ceteris paribus - I would reject the notion totally.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2010 00:19

Two things will have to happen before re-integration was even a possibility
1. Pakistan and its broken up entities need to cured of the culture of Jihad, the excessive islamization needs to be gotten rid of.
2. India and indians themselves will have to be comfortable with the idea of accepting these lands and people back into the fold - I don't think we are there yet.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby ashokpachori » 30 Dec 2010 00:26

Pakistan and its broken up entities need to cured of the culture of Jihad

What is Islam without holy Jihad?

ProMo was one who promoted it (Hadeeth). How is it going to go away from patli gali?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Prem » 30 Dec 2010 01:16

IMHO, We have Poakland where, what and why we wanted them to be . A fully retarded Pakistan is in India's interest. Let 2.99 Poakanizers enjoy and risk getting serious infection by not using safety condom. i.e indian stick, while looting Paki Sauvirginties.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Rupesh » 30 Dec 2010 01:50

Pakistan and its broken up entities need to cured of the culture of Jihad


No need to breakup Porkistan.. we can keep he land, the people can go back to KSA/Turkey where they rightfully belong ( after all they claim to be descendents of Araps and Turks )

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 30 Dec 2010 02:15

Gagan wrote:Two things will have to happen before re-integration was even a possibility
1. Pakistan and its broken up entities need to cured of the culture of Jihad, the excessive islamization needs to be gotten rid of.
2. India and indians themselves will have to be comfortable with the idea of accepting these lands and people back into the fold - I don't think we are there yet.


my humble2 cents are

1) Islam itself needs to be freed from arabian/ wahabi strain. The detox process can only work after that
2) Muslim communities need a renissance similar to Christian and Hindu societies.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 30 Dec 2010 02:35

menon s wrote:These words are from, my grandfathers diary, late Sri A G Nair.

Would be interested to know if there is any more on the Integration Process in the diary. May be you can post it here or nukkad.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby RajeshA » 30 Dec 2010 02:36

Gagan wrote:Two things will have to happen before re-integration was even a possibility
1. Pakistan and its broken up entities need to cured of the culture of Jihad, the excessive islamization needs to be gotten rid of.
2. India and indians themselves will have to be comfortable with the idea of accepting these lands and people back into the fold - I don't think we are there yet.


saar ji,
Sent you an email!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby CRamS » 30 Dec 2010 07:22

More wisdom from a TSP "expert"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/opini ... ven30.html

First some wierd logic


Advocates of ground raids seem to think that they are merely an extension of the current campaign of drone attacks on targets in Pakistan’s tribal areas, which have caused great resentment and have had very doubtful success.

Pakistani officers from captain to lieutenant general have told me that the entry of U.S. ground forces into Pakistan in pursuit of the Taliban and Al Qaeda is by far the most dangerous scenario for both Pakistan-U.S. relations and the unity of the Pakistani Army. As one retired general explained, drone attacks, though ordinary officers and soldiers find them humiliating, are not a critical issue because the Pakistani military cannot do anything about them.

“U.S. ground forces inside Pakistan are a different matter because the soldiers can do something about them,” he said. “They can fight. And if they don’t fight, they will feel utterly humiliated before their wives, mothers, children. It would be a matter of honor, which as you know is a tremendous thing in our society. These men have sworn an oath to defend Pakistani soil. So they would fight. And if the generals told them not to fight, many of them would mutiny, starting with the Frontier Corps.”



I don't understand, but just because TSPA cannot retaliate to drones and hence have to grin and bear it is not humiliating enough to do something about it, but ground raids will elicit a response from TSP because the humiliations will be too much to bear?

Then of course, the familiar line


They are also forgetting that success against terrorism does not in the end mean killing more Taliban in Afghanistan or Pakistan; it means preventing more attacks in the West. Exchanging dead or captured Taliban commanders in Pakistan’s tribal areas for a vastly increased terrorist threat in the West means exchanging very limited and temporary tactical success for very grave and long-term strategic failure.



Left unsaid is that there is an easy way out to minimize terror threat to west. Don't push TSP too hard, and hush hush hush: let them use their pigLeT against India. Terrorism against the west is all that counts.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Airavat » 30 Dec 2010 07:45

NATO trucks attacked

Half a dozen militants armed with assault rifles launched the attack in Landikotal, in Khyber district. “The militants started firing from the hilltop. A driver of one truck was killed on the spot, while his helper and another driver of another truck were injured,” local administrative official Iqbal Khatak told AFP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby surinder » 30 Dec 2010 07:48

The TSP expert quoting TSP generals is pure humbug, both on the part of the "expert" for accepting crap, and the general for dishing it out. US Army and special forces operate on Paki soil even now. They have carried out operations there for a long time. Even 20 years ago Aimal Kansi was arrested in Baluchistan by US forces. US forces have gone on raids in Lahore and other cities.

Pakis surrendered to Indians, are they going to actually fight the Americans? Is there anyone that stupid to beleive it?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Vikas » 30 Dec 2010 11:22

^ Well the Generals have to say something to retain the bravado.
Reminds me of an old story where a poor chap every time being slapped by the local goon would threaten him of dire consequences lest the goon tried to escalate. Folks from North would know this story as "Ab maar ke dikha"
This bluster of Pakistani General is purely for domestic consumption. We all know that the Paki whore has sold all its clothes for a price.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2010 13:32

Pakistan's Lahori logic is strange indeed !

No doubt, it is a Honour & Dignity based society, but nobody in Pakistan clearly knows what these honour and dignity are. Is it honourable to beg the Great Satan for money, arms and ammunition to fight the evil Hindus when the Great Satan himself is usually clubbed along with the Jews and the Hindus and spoken of derisively as kafir ? Is it honourable and dignified when the Great Satan interferes so blatantly in deciding who will rule the country and who will be exiled ? Was it honourable for the Great ZAB to run to the Americans professing his friendship ? Is it honourable to pledge the Pakistani foreign policy vis-a-vis evil India in the hands of the Chinese immediately after 26/11 ? Was it honourable in the Palestine issue to side with Israel and call the Arab ummah states as zeros ? Was it honourable and dignified when the KSA representative, Muqrin, forced Nawz Sharif to return to KSA after threatening him on the tarmac of the Lahore airport ? The list will go on and on . . .

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby menon s » 30 Dec 2010 13:39

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
menon s wrote:These words are from, my grandfathers diary, late Sri A G Nair.

Would be interested to know if there is any more on the Integration Process in the diary. May be you can post it here or nukkad.

stan,
there are in fact quiet a few.
1. jinnah wanted hindus to stay in Pakistan, because they can be used as a ransom, against hindu excesses on Muslims in India? :evil:
2. the British governor of NWFP, used to bribe the mullahs in the region, to vote against congress supported Badshah Khans party, that was secular.
3. The mutiny in Mumbai, by the Indian Navy, he thinks made Britain aware, there is no way than granting India independence. A personal view alone.
4. Money for developing Muslim league was routed by the British, through the begums of bhopal.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Pratyush » 30 Dec 2010 14:17

menon s wrote:SNIP.......
there are in fact quiet a few.
1. jinnah wanted hindus to stay in Pakistan, because they can be used as a ransom, against hindu excesses on Muslims in India? :evil:
SNIP...........




The above was mentioned by Jinnah to the British representatives clearly and unambiguously as a grantee for the safety of Indian Muslims against Hindu excesses. In a way he regarded the Indian Muslims who could not migrate as hostages in India. Keeping this in view a hindu population in Pakistan was the best grantee of keeping the Indian Muslims safe in his mind.

His British contacts felt that it was an abhorrent thought. Even during the dark ages in Europe this was not the practiced.

In spite of this they continued to encourage and negotiate with him.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Rajdeep » 30 Dec 2010 15:45

Solved: puzzle of Desai in UK terror nine

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101230/jsp/nation/story_13369465.jsp

Gurukanth Desai, one of nine men charged with plotting to carry out Mumbai-style terrorist attacks in London and other cities in Britain, is a Muslim who changed his name by deed poll to take on a Hindu name, The Telegraph can reveal having consulted unimpeachable sources.

Why 28-year-old “Desai”, a married father of three young children, of Albert Street, Cardiff, felt he had to change his name and that, too, to a Hindu one must remain a matter of speculation until his Old Bailey trial next year.

However, as far as one can tell, “Desai”, despite his new name, remained a Muslim.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Dipanker » 30 Dec 2010 15:48

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan's Lahori logic is strange indeed !

No doubt, it is a Honour & Dignity based society, but nobody in Pakistan clearly knows what these honour and dignity are. Is it honourable to beg the Great Satan for money, arms and ammunition to fight the evil Hindus when the Great Satan himself is usually clubbed along with the Jews and the Hindus and spoken of derisively as kafir ? Is it honourable and dignified when the Great Satan interferes so blatantly in deciding who will rule the country and who will be exiled ? Was it honourable for the Great ZAB to run to the Americans professing his friendship ? Is it honourable to pledge the Pakistani foreign policy vis-a-vis evil India in the hands of the Chinese immediately after 26/11 ? Was it honourable in the Palestine issue to side with Israel and call the Arab ummah states as zeros ? Was it honourable and dignified when the KSA representative, Muqrin, forced Nawz Sharif to return to KSA after threatening him on the tarmac of the Lahore airport ? The list will go on and on . . .


As per Zia-ul-Haq it is o.k to lie/beg for the sake of Islam, that is the psychology in play here. Pakis never express any gratitude for all the help they get from the wajib-ul-Qatl Uncle Satan and other assorted Kafirs. They continue to hate/loathe them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Vikas » 30 Dec 2010 15:50

^ Is this some sort of new tactics by Paki Terrorists. First some Hindwi, then Headly now Deasi?
Change the name to fly under the radar and what better than to get a Hindu name.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby anupmisra » 30 Dec 2010 16:03

VikasRaina wrote:^ Is this some sort of new tactics by Paki Terrorists. First some Hindwi, then Headly now Deasi?
Change the name to fly under the radar and what better than to get a Hindu name.


But..but..the pakis don't look anything like the evil Yindoo SDREs. Surely the brits can not be fooled. :wink:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby JE Menon » 30 Dec 2010 16:12

I have a strong suspicion that the Desai case is another pandora's box like headley.. that this is just the beginning... Perhaps inadvertently, another information goldmine may have been hit tying the ISI to terror...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby jamwal » 30 Dec 2010 16:54

Don't you guys get it ? Desai is the real name and he was always a Hindu. Rest of the arrested men were Hindus too who had changed their names to Muslim sounding ones. Real terrorists in this case are Hindus backed by Saffron terrorist organisations like BJP, Bajrang Dal, VHP and RSS.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Pratyush » 30 Dec 2010 17:14

^^^

Well that being the case, how long beofre the yuvraj and Diggy link this to the RSS? Aby guesses.


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