Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

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svinayak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby svinayak » 16 Jan 2011 09:27

http://www.sify.com/news/a-disintegrati ... heiee.html

A disintegrating Pakistan: Choices for US and India

2011-01-16 09:00:00
New Delhi: As Pakistan sinks steadily into the pit of political oblivion, it will inevitably drag the US' Afghan policy down the drain with it, because without the availability of Pakistan's logistical and civil infrastructure, and regardless of Gen. David Petraeus's (top US military commander in Afghanistan) vaunted military talents, what remains of America's struggle to wrest Afghanistan from eventual Taliban investiture is almost certainly doomed to failure.


US President Barack Obama's pledge to draw down the American military commitment in Afghanistan may ultimately turn out to be more a Vietnam-like strategic capitulation than a victory lap.

Should this turn out to be the case, in the face of a Pakistani political collapse, what other alternatives will exist which an already war-weary American public will accept?

Viewed in historical perspective, what is gradually taking place before our eyes is the final consequences of flawed political choices which the emergent Pakistani elites made following the nation's founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah's death in 1948, which were compounded by subsequent regimes, and further exacerbated by faulty US Cold War policies towards the South Asia region. In this sense, the story of Pakistan is one of 'chickens coming home to roost!'

Put succinctly, the subsequent history of Pakistan has been the systematic rejection of the efficacy of Jinnah's vision of a consensual political mode for Pakistan, in keeping with the multi-cultural, politically accommodative model that alone has proved viable in the South Asian context, literally since the Indus Valley Civilization, and irrespective of whether the regimes in power have been Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim. The political contrast between India and Pakistan makes this clear.

One might say that over the years the Pakistani public allowed itself to be hijacked by Islamic fundamentalism, partially as a means of coping with its phobic fears of 'Hindu India' and partially because the lack of socio-religious flexibility left religious extremism, and its political extensions, as the sole doctrinal basis for attempting to achieve a politically coherent state.

Islamic fanaticism, conjoined with military authoritarianism, has ripped Pakistan to shreds and soon will provoke its political disintegration. What alternative is left for US, NATO and Indian strategic policy in the face of a Pakistani political meltdown?

In my opinion, the best option is what I would call strategic consolidation. That is, India, the US and its allies, must 'step aside', let the holocaust happen, and try to contain in every way possible its spread beyond Pakistan's borders and the Pashtun region now dominated by the Taliban.

As the dimensions and ramifications of the 'implosion' become apparent, the US, NATO and India can deploy their military and diplomatic resources in whatever manner they deem necessary and possible to contain, ameliorate and mediate the undoubtedly pervasive violence that will ensue and must run its course.

With regard to Afghan policy in the face of a Pakistani political meltdown, and an inevitable consequent resurgence of Taliban militancy in the Pashtun region, former US ambassador to India (2001-3) Robert D. Blackwill has offered a highly imaginative interim solution.

The US, he says, should for the time being consolidate its forces and resources in the non-Pashtun portions of the country where Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Hazarras predominate and originally formed the core of the Northern Alliance which in concert with the US after 9/11 defeated the Taliban.

His observations concerning the interim realignment of forces in Afghanistan in the face of the worst-case scenario are highly pertinent.

'Washington should accept,' he declares, 'that the Taliban will inevitably control most of the Pashtun south and east and that the price of forestalling that outcome is far too high for the United States to continue paying.'

Even prior to the impending collapse of Pakistan, or indeed if in the end it avoids this terminal fate, Blackwill rightly concludes that 'the emergence of a clear division in Pakistan might provide just the sort of shock the Pakistani military apparently needs in order to appreciate the dangers of the game it has been playing for decades.'

Leading American commentators, including this one, are now convinced that Pakistan is only a furtive step away from ceasing to be a viable modern state capable of carrying out its responsibilities as a purported 'non-NATO ally' of the US in the war against the Taliban, Al Qaeda and other jihadi extremists.

Yes, this implies a comprehensive realignment of forces, resources and strategic orientation towards the Af-Pak theatre. But in the face of a steadily disintegrating, politically pathological Pakistan state, it is only a matter of time until such a realignment takes place anyway. For US-Pakistan relations, as we have known them, it is indeed the end of the affair.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby CRamS » 16 Jan 2011 09:34

Why is my man R-man these days?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Anujan » 16 Jan 2011 09:49

A Comical WKK-ism by Karan Thapar that should be read in full. :rotfl:

Hindsight’s too late
I’ve always believed Pakistanis are not a fundamentalist or extremist people... vast majority are like us — ordinary, law-abiding, god-fearing folk imbued with a deep sense of culture and tradition but not fanatics and certainly not murderers and assassins.

Salman Taseer was killed — in fact riddled with 27 bullets — by his own bodyguard...killer being garlanded and showered with rose petals as he was escorted to court...500 lawyers have signed up to defend Taseer’s killer but, so far, his widow cannot find a single one to prosecute him...Not even one registered mullah out of Lahore’s population of 13 million was prepared to read the funeral prayer... all-powerful army has refused to issue a single comment of support for Taseer’s family

So has Pakistan changed?... Pakistanis have not changed


A lover of lahori-logic will be a lover of lahore :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Gagan » 16 Jan 2011 09:50

I was going through some of the responses to David Ignathius's == piece.

The point to be noted is that the US is allied to the Pakistani Army - not to the Pakistani Nation or the people of Pakistan.
This is so because the US more than any other power, recognizes that it is the Pakistani Army which is the real power broker in that country, and the COAS and the crore commanders there are the ones who run the show.

These days, the US wants action in North Waziristan to take out the Haqqani group. Pakistan is avoiding this by putting its foot down and asking that they have done enough GUBO for the US, and it is time the US delivered on what Pakistan wants - i.e. Kashmir.

Pakistan's faujis KNOW that India WILL NOT YIELD on Kashmir.
It seems that the buffoons in foggy bottom don't realize this, and are pressuring MMS and GoI for concessions in the valley.

The only thing that India is willing to agree to is superficial measures - people to people contact (which pakistan fears), trade (which the Jihadi army doesn't want because it strengthens the civilian businessmen and not the fauji foundation businesses), force reduction in the valley (done, and replaced by much more mobile and much better trained and equipped Ghatak teams).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby pgbhat » 16 Jan 2011 09:56

Anujan wrote:A Comical WKK-ism by Karan Thapar that should be read in full. :rotfl:

Hindsight’s too late
I’ve always believed Pakistanis are not a fundamentalist or extremist people... vast majority are like us — ordinary, law-abiding, god-fearing folk imbued with a deep sense of culture and tradition but not fanatics and certainly not murderers and assassins.

Salman Taseer was killed — in fact riddled with 27 bullets — by his own bodyguard...killer being garlanded and showered with rose petals as he was escorted to court...500 lawyers have signed up to defend Taseer’s killer but, so far, his widow cannot find a single one to prosecute him...Not even one registered mullah out of Lahore’s population of 13 million was prepared to read the funeral prayer... all-powerful army has refused to issue a single comment of support for Taseer’s family

So has Pakistan changed?... Pakistanis have not changed but their State most certainly has.


A lover of lahori-logic will be a lover of lahore :mrgreen:


BENIS material onlee. :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby nachiket » 16 Jan 2011 09:59

So, it is a win win situation for the pakis then. Either India is foolish enough to give concessions on Kashmir, or it doesn't and pakis don't have to do anything about Haqqani and North Waziristan. As much as I hate the TSPA, have to say "well played" here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby partha » 16 Jan 2011 10:10

Anujan wrote:A Comical WKK-ism by Karan Thapar that should be read in full. :rotfl:

Hindsight’s too late
I’ve always believed Pakistanis are not a fundamentalist or extremist people... vast majority are like us — ordinary, law-abiding, god-fearing folk imbued with a deep sense of culture and tradition but not fanatics and certainly not murderers and assassins.

Salman Taseer was killed — in fact riddled with 27 bullets — by his own bodyguard...killer being garlanded and showered with rose petals as he was escorted to court...500 lawyers have signed up to defend Taseer’s killer but, so far, his widow cannot find a single one to prosecute him...Not even one registered mullah out of Lahore’s population of 13 million was prepared to read the funeral prayer... all-powerful army has refused to issue a single comment of support for Taseer’s family

So has Pakistan changed?... Pakistanis have not changed


A lover of lahori-logic will be a lover of lahore :mrgreen:


Karan Thapar recently said that he is "reasonably fond" of Pakistan. Reasons being his parents are from Pakistan and he does not have prejudice for Muslims.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Gagan » 16 Jan 2011 10:57

nachiket wrote:So, it is a win win situation for the pakis then. Either India is foolish enough to give concessions on Kashmir, or it doesn't and pakis don't have to do anything about Haqqani and North Waziristan. As much as I hate the TSPA, have to say "well played" here.

Not really,
The US will find pressure points in Pakistan and will start inserting hot nails there. Gawd knows Pakistan has no shortage of issues that can be exploited.

The US is a past master in pressuring weak nations into submission - it has perfected several overboard and underhand techniques over the past centuries. I can foresee internal strife and troubles within Pakistan increasing exponentially.

But at the same time, pressure on GoI to do something overtly on the surface will be there. India I think can be relatively secure that now there are sufficient stakes that have been built with the US business houses so that India can continue to enjoy good relations with the US for the time to come. But all this will mean pandering to US's whims and fancies, paying Jaziya from time to time (nothing more than what other nations with good relations with the US do from time to time onlee). The US and India will both benefit immensely - India more so.

For now, it seems that Pakistan has been notified by the US's actions in the 26/11 case, movement against the LET etc that a major terror attack like 26/11 (and one where western citizens are targeted) will not be tolerated. That of course means that the powers that be will not lose their benevolence on the ISI and allow them some 'necessary-evil' attacks to let the jihadis blow off some steam - all at the cost of innocent Indians.

Ultimately it seems that Pakistan's slide into oblivion might accelerate from this point forward, somewhat similar to what happened after the Lal Masjid crackdown.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby nachiket » 16 Jan 2011 11:26

Gagan wrote:For now, it seems that Pakistan has been notified by the US's actions in the 26/11 case, movement against the LET etc that a major terror attack like 26/11 (and one where western citizens are targeted) will not be tolerated.


None of the publicly visible actions of the US seem to suggest this. Role of the ISI in planning and executing 26/11 has been kept under wraps and the US does not seem to be bothered about Hafeez Saeed and co. roaming free. If they have had an Amritraj-esque "GUBO or we will bomb you back to the stone age" talk in private with 10% and Kiya-nahi we'll never know. But there are no visible indications of this.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Philip » 16 Jan 2011 11:42

Acharya,we on BR have ben saying this for a decade+,that pak must be allowed to disintegrate.The unfortunate lopsided and Nelsonian American policy,doomed as sure as its policy in Vietnam was,has only delayed the inevitable.However,there is one factor that the US and the rest of the civilised world needs to seriously ponder upon,the Chinese insurance plolicy to save Pak.

China has made huge investments in Pak and if the Paki state collapses into anarchy,which must inevitably happen,then one must not rule out a Chinese "advance" into Pak,with or without the permission of the paki military,which might very well call for Chinese military intervention just as the Najibullah govt. called in the Soviets! Thus firming up its hold over Aksai Chin,the Karakorum Highway and POK,protecting the land route to Gwadar and the Gulf,which is vital to the Chinese masterplan to dominate the globe.Apart from this will be China's key objective to see that its nukes (Pak's arsenal as Pak is nothing more than a PRC proxy) do not fall into the hands of the west.The speed with which China has built up its infrastructutre in Tibet right upto Pak has been done as year by year the control of the Paki military to rule the nation either itself or by proxy has been weakended due to the rapid rise of the ungodly jehais.Shouild such an enctuality happen,then India will be totally outflanked by China on the east,north and west,with the Chinese influence over Sri Lanka at least neutralising the island nation.

India must therefore prepare for a battleplan to prevent China from wresting Aksai Chin and POK-in other words taking over the key strategic parts of Pak which will be disastrous for India.The Chinese "nibbling" at J&K,threats to our villages on the border are all aprt of this machiavellian masterplan of the mandarins of the Zhongnanhai cabal.WE cannot conbtinue to allow the Chinese to keep on intrudsing into Indian territory as this only legitimises Chinese occuaption of Indian land.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby svinayak » 16 Jan 2011 12:13

Philip wrote:
India must therefore prepare for a battleplan to prevent China from wresting Aksai Chin and POK-in other words taking over the key strategic parts of Pak which will be disastrous for India.

Aksai chin and POK is the real freedom for India. It has to be liberated

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby SSridhar » 16 Jan 2011 12:14

Gagan wrote:I was going through some of the responses to David Ignathius's == piece.

The point to be noted is that the US is allied to the Pakistani Army - not to the Pakistani Nation or the people of Pakistan.

This is so because the US more than any other power, recognizes that it is the Pakistani Army which is the real power broker in that country, and the COAS and the crore commanders there are the ones who run the show.

The Comments section is getting a lot of responses and all of them so far have been reasonable and valid criticism.

About the alliance between the US & PA, it is a virtue out of necessity, I would say. Not that the PA is not the real power and the Americans are unaware of that. The Americans meet the military men more often than the political leaders and they even advise us to do the same.Yet, there is a history to this relationship. In the early 50s, when the alliance was forged, the right-wing clerics were not so powerful as they are today, the Army was more disciplined and not Islamized, the clerics had no say in military matters, and the clerics were more concerned about asserting their rights as promised and securing their own space within the polity and excommunicating and discrediting the Ahmedis. Above all, there was an East Pakistan too. Even when the Pakistani government took pro-Israeli stand in the Palestine crisis or anti-ummah stand in the Suez crisis etc., the opposition to such stances was scant, muted and easily suppressed. The State was even able to award death sentence to Mawdudi saheb and keep him in jail for some time. What a sacrilege ! Not anymore. Today, a guy who calls for azaan over the loudspeaker in a wayside mosque cannot be touched by the State. Such is the growth of Islamist power.

Simultaneously, the hatred against kafir, which in the beginning was restricted to the evil Hindus, widened to include Jews and then the Christians (especially the Americans). By mid-to-late 60s, the hatred for the Americans had grown tremendously, aided also by the State which propagated the falsehood that the Americans ditched them in the 1965 war. The State had to resort to this in order to cover up for the defeat which was only all too visible to the Pakistanis because the IA was at the outskirts of Lahore. Since it takes 10 Indian soldiers to equal the prowess of 1 Pakistani soldier and since the jinns were spreading a wide net and preventing the bombs dropped by the IAF planes from falling to the ground, the only other explanation that could be offered for the obvious defeat was to blame the Americans. Anyway, the relationship had soured already after the Kennedy administration decided to help India against the Chinese aggression.

As Pakistan decided to jump into the Chinese bandwagon after c. 1962, Pakistan decided to further stoke the already building up hatred in the society for the Americans by fabricating and leaking such falsehood. There was no turning back, among the Pakistani society, for American hatred after that. Today, there are only two political players in the Pakistani scene, the Bhuttos and the Sharifs. One of them is America-pasand and the other is not. Unfortunately, both are disliked by the PA, the Bhuttos far more than the Sharifs. So, while the country and its leaders are mostly anti-American, the PA (even while being anti-American) pretends to cooperate with it wherever its interests are not at stake. The Afghan jihad (1979-1989) was one. The post-9/11 situation is entirely different from the earlier Afghan jihad. Because a lot of money is involved, the PA has to strike a fine balance between appearing to be on the American side and convincing the tanzeems (and the society) that it was not giving up its traditional enmity. That was why Musharraf referred to the Hudabaiya Treaty of the Prophet in his speech to the nation, a reference that went unnoticed. He also had to ensure that units within the PA themselves did not get entirely out of hand. The PA commanders are using this to scare the Americans. This is where the Americans are having a problem because they think that if they push the PA too far, they fear its unravelling and yet they have to push it to act against the jihadis. In this scenario, the political leadership is entirely useless and there is absolutely no point in talking to them. It will be waste of efforts and they may even give a false sense of hope that they have no means of keeping up. Besides, the PA would not like that too. For its part, the political leadership had long ago abdicated its foreign policy responsibility (except for minor matters) to the PA. Today, Quereshi reports to Kayani. As SM Krishna said after the last Islamabad meeting, it was Quereshi who was getting directions during the meeting and they certainly were not coming from Gilani/Zardari.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby CRamS » 16 Jan 2011 12:16

nachiket wrote:None of the publicly visible actions of the US seem to suggest this. Role of the ISI in planning and executing 26/11 has been kept under wraps and the US does not seem to be bothered about Hafeez Saeed and co. roaming free. If they have had an Amritraj-esque "GUBO or we will bomb you back to the stone age" talk in private with 10% and Kiya-nahi we'll never know. But there are no visible indications of this.



GaganJi is right, there is some level of pressure mounted by USA on TSP, or else, there are enough juicy targets in India where you wouldn't find any whites that TSP would have easily attacked. (But even that is a massive concession to TSP in that Mumbai is all but forgotten). As somebody else said, TSP is playing to its strenghts. They are not risking the dlicate support they are enjoying from US visa vi India on Kashmir by conducting another attack. They have told US, we have done enough, if you want us to go into Norht Waziristan, you deliver Kashmir, and US has bought that argument. This is clearly a boom boom Afridi sixer TSP has scored, they have managed to create an artificial linkage between AfPak & Kashmir, thanks to Indian impotence in part.

The wild card now as I see it is this. As this war of attrition goes on, at some time if this stalemate of sorts continues, US will have to decide: India or TSP. They can either do an Amritraj in TSP, or they have enough leverage to make life difficult for India. Stay tuned!!! Isn't it interesting, at the end of the day, there is no right and wrong, just sheer national interests, and the power you bring to the table!!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby shiv » 16 Jan 2011 12:33

There's a bit of pisko in the US's love for Pakis and the army. Perhaps it is an evolutionary feature (acc to Dawkins) but humans tend to support and empathise with someone who they see as their own kind. The US's relationship of love and trust was built up with Ayub Khan. Just listen to the guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrHoFRzWqTI


How different were Indian leaders dealing with Unkil

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby anupmisra » 16 Jan 2011 16:31

Pajistan: Cradle of Civilization
Another attempt to add 4,937 years of history to their limited, time-sensitive existence.

Thousand years old cultural heritage - pride for Pakistan
Pakistan has every reason to be proud of the thousands of years old cultural heritage, said the Ambassador of Pakistan to Japan, Noor Muhammad Jadmani.
Pakistan is a cradle of civilizations and traces its history back to at least 2500 years, when highly developed civilizations like Indus and Gandhara flourished here.
The Ambassador called upon the people of Japan to visit Pakistan where they can find the best Buddha sculptures preserved in Taxila, Peshawar and Lahore museums.
“Pakistan is paradise for culture tourists, particularly those who have interest in ancient civilizations,”
Pakistan also received a large number of adventure tourists from all over the world :rotfl:
“In this respect we look towards our Japanese friends to help us through investing in Pakistan and supplement our efforts to strengthen our economy and generate jobs. My appeal was to the corporate sector of Japan to utilize Pakistan’s economic potential,” the Ambassador said.


The ambassador must be a pakjabi. Only a pakjabi resorts to superlatives to express himself. All this "culture-vulture" stuff just to beg for money?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 16 Jan 2011 16:40

Zardari shoe-thrower to visit Pakistan http://www.zeenews.com/news680853.html

London: A Briton, who had hurled shoes at Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari during his last official visit to the UK, has announced to visit Pakistan on March 23 - the Pakistan Resolution Day.

Mohammed Shamim Khan had attempted to attack Zardari when he was addressing a rally of Pakistan People’s Party at the International Convention Centre in Birmingham on August 07 last year.

"I could feel the anger brewing up inside me as Zardari talked about the floods in Pakistan. I thought we have a crisis back at home and all he can do is take a trip around Europe while his own people are suffering," he was quoted as saying after the incident.

The 63-year-old Khan is now optimistic that his arrival in Pakistan will herald a Khomeini-like Iranian revolution in the country, The News reports. :mrgreen:

He is encouraged by the response he had received from Pakistan following the show-hurling incident, and hopes that thousands will turn out to greet him when he lands in Islamabad.

Khan is also aware that he may be targeted by PPP activists and the state itself for his daring act, but believes that silence is not an option in view of the floundering state of affairs in Pakistan.

“I have been contacted by leaders of all parties from Pakistan and [Pak-occupied] Kashmir (PoK). They have extended support to me. They have also invited me to visit Pakistan,” said Khan, who originally hails from PoK.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby SSridhar » 16 Jan 2011 16:44

anupmisra wrote:Pajistan: Cradle of Civilization
Thousand years old cultural heritage - pride for Pakistan
Pakistan also received a large number of adventure tourists from all over the world :rotfl:

Ohh. . . he is referring to those engaged in 'jihadi tourism', which is a very big industry in TSP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 16 Jan 2011 16:54

'Zardari received millions in kickbacks in French sub deal'
http://www.zeenews.com/news680931.html

Islamabad: A Paris magistrate, probing a suspected scam surrounding the sale of three Agosta-class French submarines to Pakistan's navy, has seized as evidence official Pakistani documents detailing how President Asif Ali Zardari "received kickbacks" worth several millions of euros in the deal, says a media report.

The documents, revealed for the first time by Mediapart, a French online publication, show that the payments to Zardari and others took place on the fringes of the sale of three submarines by the French defence contractor DCN to Pakistan in the 1990s. The French sale succeeded against rival offers by Swedish and German contractors.

The sale, and the payment of bribes associated with it - officially termed as commissions - are at the core of what has come to known as the 'Karachi affair', currently the subject of two French judicial investigations. The issue has rocked the French political establishment with its potential far-reaching ramifications within France, Pakistan's 'The Nation' daily said quoting the Mediapart report.

A key allegation in the developing affair is that the cancellation of commissions paid out in the submarine deal was the motive behind a suicide bomb attack in Karachi on May 8, 2002 that left 11 French engineers dead. They were in Pakistan to help build one of the Agosta submarines.

Increasing evidence suggests that cancellation of the commissions, ordered by former French president Jacques Chirac, was decided after it was discovered they were in part re-routed back to France to fund political activities of Chirac's principal political rival, Edouard Balladur.

The documents now in possession of Paris-based judge Renaud Van Ruymbeke were found during a French police search in June 2010 of the home of Amir Lodhi, one of the intermediaries involved in securing the Agosta contract. Lodhi held a copy of a report by a Pakistani anti-corruption service, the Ehtesab Cell, the report said.

Lodhi, 61, the brother of a former Pakistani ambassador to the UN, is a close friend of Zardari, who became President in 2008 one year after the assassination of his wife Benazir Bhutto.

The raid on Lodhi's home in the French capital was carried out by detectives from the French police national financial investigation division, the DNIF.

The Ehtesab Cell documents were the object of a formal report by the DNIF, established on June 17th, 2010, and reveal that Zardari received a kickback worth 6,934,296 euros between October and December 1994, the report said.

That report is now among the evidence collected by Van Ruymbeke in his investigation into the financial aspect of the Agosta submarine sale, and in particular whether commissions paid abroad were re-routed to fund political activities within France. Originally written in English, the Pakistani documents were translated by the DNIF investigators and now provide the first clear details about the scale of the payments made to Zardari, amounting to several million euros, as well as the channels used, including offshore companies, bank accounts and a British tax haven, the report said.

The Agosta submarine contract was signed between the two countries on September 21, 1994, just weeks before the first payments began.

At the time, Zardari was a minister in the Pakistani government then led by his wife, Prime Minister Bhutto.

Importantly, Zardari was the key figure for all public contracts signed with foreign countries. That position earned Zardari the unflattering nickname in his own country of "Mister 10 per cent", the report said.

The main document seized by French investigators is a photocopy of an original dated November 9, 1997, concerning a request by Pakistan to Switzerland for cooperation in a judicial investigation.

The French police report said the document explicitly referred to the Agosta contract: "This request concerns several cases of malpractice including that of the purchase of French submarines."

According to the French investigators, the official Pakistani documents seized in Lohdi's Paris home also explain that "Messieurs Lodhi and Zardari received their bribes in the bank accounts of a series of offshore companies".

Mediapart also reports that Van Ruymbeke's investigation has already established that, in order to convince the Pakistani authorities to choose the French submarines, a very structured network of corruption was established by a French state company dedicated to such activities.

Zardari was one of the main benefactors of the paid bribes, according to Henri Guittet, a former managing director of French defence firm SOFMA.

He evaluated the sum paid to Zardari as being 4 per cent of the total value of the sales contract, which amounts to a value of 33 million euros.

"I believe there was one per cent paid upon the signature of the sales contract, which means at the moment when everything can get underway and when notably the deposit and (partial) down payment has been paid, and one per cent later," he said in a formal statement.

"The remaining two per cent was pro rata with the payment of the clients."

But French judicial investigators are investigating whether the Agosta contract also involved illegal payments in France.




Pak-origin Briton 'masterminded' own abduction for dad's money
http://www.zeenews.com/news680930.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby anupmisra » 16 Jan 2011 17:04

Recreating the Tunisian role model
Beware of what you wish for, my endangered paki friends.

The Tunisian example

The power of the common people forced the president of Tunisia, Zine El Abiadine Ben Ali, to flee the country after ruling it for 23 years. The Tunisian people’s problems are the same like ours: rising unemployment, inflation and the country turning into a police state. In a country where young journalist like Wali Khan Babar are brutally gunned down, where flood affectees are forced to live in camps that resemble detention camps, power and gas outages are a norm, it is not too far when the Tunisian saga is enacted here.

Dr Munawar, Islamabad

“Tunisian president flees country amid escalating riots,” reads a headline on January 14. The Pakistani awam, I am sure, could learn a lot from their Tunisian brethren.

Nayab, Lahore

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby SSridhar » 16 Jan 2011 17:13

^And, Saudi Arabia is there to give asylum to rascals, and scoundrels.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby jrjrao » 16 Jan 2011 18:19

This might have been posted before. Nice article by an Afghan journalist:

The Deep Roots Of Pakistan’s Extremism
By Bashir Ahmad Gwakh
The whole situation this week reminds me of another killing from 1927. Back then, an illiterate carpenter who was known only as Ilmuddin murdered a Hindu publisher named Raj Pal for publishing a book called “Rangeela Rasool,” which Ilmuddin had been told mocked the Prophet.

Sensational accounts published in the Pakistan media at the time claimed that after committing the murder, Ilmuddin fell to his knees and bowed to God, thanking Him with the words: “I have avenged my Prophet; I have avenged my Prophet.”

He was arrested and jailed. After pleading guilty, he was sentenced to death. Punjab Muslims appealed the verdict, and, to protest his death sentence, they gave him the honorary name “Ghazi.” The Pakistan daily “Jang” reported that the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, worked on Ilmuddin’s behalf free of charge. But the day after the appeal was rejected, Ilmuddin was hanged.

More than a million Muslims from Lahore and the surrounding area thronged the funeral, and the carpenter was given yet another honorific name, now being called Ghazi Ilmuddin Shaheed. According to some reports, Muhammad Iqbal, one of the key founders of Pakistan, personally placed Ilmuddin’s body in the grave with tears in his eyes. “This carpenter left us, educated men, behind,” he said.

To this day, Pakistan regards Ilmuddin as a hero of Islam. His name and legacy are even found in schoolbooks.

Link

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby anupmisra » 16 Jan 2011 18:42

jrjrao wrote:The Deep Roots Of Pakistan’s Extremism

Many might say, deep down to their DNA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 16 Jan 2011 18:47

and the amazing thing is by all 'normal' indicators, Tunisia was doing so much better than pakistan has been for years
yet, the paquis manage to continue along the path whilst Tunisians stage a revolution

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Pratyush » 16 Jan 2011 18:56

SSridhar wrote:^And, Saudi Arabia is there to give asylum to rascals, and scoundrels.


What does it tell us about KSA?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 16 Jan 2011 19:11

the thing to watch out for is that the tunisian leader, like others in the maghreb (except Gadafi) and also the gulf leaders are pro western repressive dictators. al-q is agitating first and foremost for their overthrow before it takes on the great satan. everyone will be concerned to see how green this revolution actually is. have heard it being called the jasmine revolution so far...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby arun » 16 Jan 2011 19:51

Harold Gould, Visiting Scholar in the Center for South Asian Studies at the University of Virginia, in an article titled “A disintegrating Pakistan: Choices for US and India” that is bound to cause takleef in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan :

A disintegrating Pakistan: Choices for US and India

2011-01-16 09:00:00
Last Updated: 2011-01-16 09:42:51

New Delhi: As Pakistan sinks steadily into the pit of political oblivion .........................

Islamic fanaticism, conjoined with military authoritarianism, has ripped Pakistan to shreds and soon will provoke its political disintegration. What alternative is left for US, NATO and Indian strategic policy in the face of a Pakistani political meltdown?

In my opinion, the best option is what I would call strategic consolidation. That is, India, the US and its allies, must 'step aside', let the holocaust happen, and try to contain in every way possible its spread beyond Pakistan's borders and the Pashtun region now dominated by the Taliban.

As the dimensions and ramifications of the 'implosion' become apparent, the US, NATO and India can deploy their military and diplomatic resources in whatever manner they deem necessary and possible to contain, ameliorate and mediate the undoubtedly pervasive violence that will ensue and must run its course. ..........................

Sify

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby arun » 16 Jan 2011 19:58

The Express Tribune discovers what visitors to Pakfora have long known, namely that those of Pakistani origin residing in the UK are largely a rabid lot:

Taseer’s assassination: Extremism of British Pakistanis exposed

LONDON: The assassination of Salmaan Taseer has exposed the extent of extremist thinking even amongst Pakistani expatriates in Britain.

Speaking to British Pakistanis living in an East London locality, The Express Tribune found many supporters of Taseer’s murderer while a few spoke up in favour of the rule of law. ………………….

Express Tribune

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Naidu » 16 Jan 2011 20:08

Acharya wrote:http://www.sify.com/news/a-disintegrating-pakistan-choices-for-us-and-india-news-international-lbqjaeheiee.html

A disintegrating Pakistan: Choices for US and India

2011-01-16 09:00:00
New Delhi: As Pakistan sinks steadily into the pit of political oblivion, it will inevitably drag the US' Afghan policy down the drain with it, because without the availability of Pakistan's logistical and civil infrastructure, and regardless of Gen. David Petraeus's (top US military commander in Afghanistan) vaunted military talents, what remains of America's struggle to wrest Afghanistan from eventual Taliban investiture is almost certainly doomed to failure.


Who is the author of this opinion piece?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Hari Seldon » 16 Jan 2011 20:15

Clearly, anyone can see that the only way to maintain the logistical chain into Afgn as Pak collapses into unreliability, short of going via Iran or the CARs, is to have an independent Baluchistan to connect Kandahar to the Arabian sea. Only.

Blackwill did his bit to seed the idea but more nudges needed, apparently.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby menon s » 16 Jan 2011 20:34

A very interseting videos.
The commentator compares Aurangazeb Alamgirs rule and Mazabi Badmashi he spawned, to the rise of Maharaja Ranjith Singh, who turned the Badshahi Masjid in Lahore to a horse stable. He defines Kaffirs anarchists, and says that the Taliban of today are the real anarchists. It is also a mirror of how the Us Pakistanis view their state of origin and how unhappy they are in present day. I have great respect today for lion of Punjab, Maharaja Ranjith singh, sikhs were just 15% of the population, but could bring the whole of Punjab ubder their reign during his time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQeeAG8q ... _embedded#!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby rsingh » 16 Jan 2011 20:45

How come Bakis like to wear Salwar -kamiz?
In accordance with the teaching of their Guru, the Sikhs did not attack the defenceless or the weak. This included children, women, mendicants and the elderly. Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa advised the Pathans that one way they could escape the wrath of an infuriated Sikh was to dress as a woman. In the Punjab, the shalwar kameez is feminine apparel.

The shalwar was a loose trouser with a stiff border at the ankle, while the kameez was a loose shirt falling to the knees. This dress came to popularly be known as the ‘Punjabi suit’ in India. In Pakistan and Afghanistan, men still wear its variant — the ‘Pathan suit’.


There are multiple sources on net. And this fact is common knowledge in Northern India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby RamaY » 16 Jan 2011 20:55

SSridhar wrote:
JE Menon wrote:Some interesting responses to the Ignatius farticle in WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... ments.html


Yes, true.


A quote from one of the comments. This is the exact line of thought one sees in WKK crowd as well. Pinnacle of dhimmitude. I wonder if they ever put that to practice in India...

'If I were a newly prosperous Indian, I'd want to help my ailing neighbor as a matter of self-protection. '

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby RamaY » 16 Jan 2011 21:04

Pratyush wrote:
SSridhar wrote:^And, Saudi Arabia is there to give asylum to rascals, and scoundrels.


What does it tell us about KSA?


Pakistan is the "Global Whore on Terror" born to a war-monger USA and religious-sadist KSA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Pratyush » 16 Jan 2011 21:45

RamaY wrote:
A quote from one of the comments. This is the exact line of thought one sees in WKK crowd as well. Pinnacle of dhimmitude. I wonder if they ever put that to practice in India...

'If I were a newly prosperous Indian, I'd want to help my ailing neighbor as a matter of self-protection. '


^^^ I will agree with the point of helping my ailing neighbor. But only out of the goodness of my heart. That to only for some one who has shown goodwill towards me in the past. Either through words or his deeds.

TSP has shown us neither. So if it falls I will say could not have happened to a nicer bunch.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 16 Jan 2011 22:00

An attempt to explain slow scoring rate these days

Attacks down almost 20 percent in Pakistan

The number of suicide bombings and other attacks in Pakistan declined nearly 20 percent last year as a result of Pakistani military operations, better surveillance by law enforcement agencies and the death of key militants in U.S. drone strikes, a think tank said Sunday.
:rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 16 Jan 2011 22:01

Kerry Lugar aid being put to right use by TSPA

Pakistan army propaganda drama set for TV

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan's Taliban-fighting soldiers are set for celebrity status with the launch of a multi-million-dollar glossy television drama hailing army victories over militants.

Emotive tales of 11 "brave Pakistanis" battling an Islamist insurgency that is plaguing Pakistan and neighbouring Afghanistan, will air on the small screen in an army-funded drama that casts the anti-terror fight in a positive light

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 16 Jan 2011 22:03

Pakistan Institutes Curfew in Karachi .

ISLAMABAD—Pakistan on Sunday placed parts of Karachi, the country's biggest city and financial hub, under curfew after a week of ethnic and political violence left more than 30 people dead.

Rehman Malik, the federal interior minister, said the measure was taken to control the deteriorating law-and-order situation in strife-torn Karachi, which has a population of 18 million. Tensions heightened late Saturday after gunmen killed five people, including a senior member of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, a political party that is a key member of the coalition government in the southern province of Sindh, of which Karachi is the capital.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 16 Jan 2011 22:06

musharraf practising balancing on two stones act

Pakistan should punish Qadri, blasphemy law should stay: Musharraf

Mr. Musharraf said that since Muslims are very emotional about the blasphemy statute, “the controversial law must stay” in Pakistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 16 Jan 2011 22:15

Pakistan finds Biden’s clarification unrealistic

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s leadership does not appear to be convinced with US Vice President Joseph Biden’s clarifications about their concerns, adjudging them to be contradictory to ground realities.


So kashmir was not handed on platter.

In order to win over the Pakistani leaders he tried to dispel some of the fears prevailing in Pakistan as “misconceptions about US actions and … intentions”.

These apprehensions, which were conveyed by Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to President Barack Obama, included the perceived US interest in transactional nature of ties with Pakistan; that war on terror had been imposed on Pakistan; alleged violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty by the US; supposed US disrespect for Islam; much-touted American inner desire to defang and destabilise Pakistan; and its supposed indifference to Pakistan’s strategic concerns particularly vis-à-vis India.


A senior official in a background briefing on Saturday pointed to Mr Obama’s security strategy envisioning a greater role for India and Japan for Asian security and stability, and the growing support for Indian bid for UN Security Council’s permanent seat as an indicator of a major shift in the dynamics of world order.

The official said ‘exceptionalism’ was evident in this case.



Now time for some false bravardo typical of paki momeens

He went on to caution against economically squeezing Pakistan, destabilising it and disturbing the societal balance. “Our message is that do not try to turn Pakistan into a battlefield,” the official said, mentioning incidents in Karachi, Data Darbar bombing, sectarian strife and bomb attacks as part of what could be described as an international conspiracy.



As if pakis have goods to sell and massa is stopping the world from buying it. Actually in a way massa is stopping pakis from exporting their most known brand of goods which are rotting in their own warehouses their IT

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 16 Jan 2011 22:20

Man killed in apparent fall from plane in Pakistan

LAHORE, Pakistan -- A young man died after apparently falling from the wheel well of a plane as it flew out of the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore, Pakistani officials said Saturday.

The unidentified man's shattered body was found on the roof of a home in Lahore late Thursday. An autopsy confirmed that the body fell a long distance, police official Jawad Qamar said.

The homeowner told police the body landed with a loud bang and that he heard a plane in the air at the time, Qamar said.

An Airblue flight heading to Dubai was in the sky at the time, Civil Aviation Authority spokesman Kamran Malik said. Authorities believe the young man may have hidden in that plane's landing gear, though the investigation was ongoing.

It was not yet clear at what altitude the plane was flying. Airblue officials could not immediately be reached for comment Saturday.

Accidents involving such stowaways have happened before and often involve would-be economic migrants. Many Pakistanis go to Dubai and other Arab countries for work.



Any momeen who makes a hizrat from citadel of islam should be declared apostay and stoned . My new sura for momeens AOA


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