Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

[Brad Goodman]

My view of how the Americans understand Pakistan and the Af-Pak problem, the events of 9/11 has changed a little bit. I will try and put it in words as best as I can. Hope the gurus can pitch in.

JMT. Opinions from forum members please.

Here is what I feel the truth is complicated at the same time I feel US & West is not just confused about how to handle pakis as they are directionless. The reason for this I feel is there are too many actors and too many short term interests / goals that are involved. So I agree with you and Mr Ombaba that cancer is in pakilands and paki institutions. That is true but the reason you see inaction on the problem statement is there is a huge lobby within establishment that feels they can use pakis to further their geo strategic plans and this group will pardon every sin of pakis the same way shishupala was pardoned. There is a lobby of people like JF Dulles (Ghurkha frame) Nixon, Regan, Charlie Wilson etc and their offsprings in todays pentegon, congress and foggy bottom who are retarding any action against TSPA. So basically its like blind men feeling elephant. Few of us see what Ombaba sees and other see america completely blind to our interests.

[krisna]

Xinjiang – China’s Muslimwest

Travels of a paqi in xinjiang.

Most important piece is

My local guide in Urumchi, a fluent English-speaking Uighur Muslim, told me with some trepidation that the Pakistanis had a very bad reputation, being regarded as uncouth and aggressive and always ready to make advances to local women, no matter their thick and long beards and Islamic pretensions.

you can take a paqi out of paqistan but you can never remove paqistaniyat from a paqi


edited- thanks Gagan

[Gagan]

Pakistan Pain-in-da-baatt

[shiv]

Folks in general and Gagan and other Pakivideo watchers in particular.

I am on the lookout for videos/information about the Chinese massage parlors attacked by the Lal Masjid folks. In the meantime - the anger against the army from the people who were in Lal Masjid, the disposal of dead bodies etc are summarized in these 2 videos totalling about 16 minutes. It is fairly powerful stuff and has some valuable material to understand PakPisko and we can use this. They show how the RAPE (sooted boote) and army leadership treated the beards and wimmens.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=988dTrWvuV4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZjnfB0P ... re=related

[arun]

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, self claimed safe haven for the Mohammadden’s of the Indian Sub-Continent, Mohammadden shrines belonging to one group have to shut as a security precaution to fend off the predatory interest of a another group of Mohammadden’s owing to differences in interpretation of the tenets of Mohammaddenism .

Seems to me that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a safe haven for the Mohammadden’s of the Indian Sub-Continent, to slaughter each other away from the gaze of Kaafir Non-Muslim’s.

Meanwhile is there some link between a Mango Pir and a Mango Abdul? :

Manghopir shrine opened despite security risks

[krisna]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=449_1184314627 ( RAW video showing the Pakistan Army inside the Red Mosque. )
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=617_1182664125 ( bbc news clip about massage parlour kidnappings)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c5_1182607733 (about chinese massage parlour kidnappings)

shiv, I could find these regarding the chinese parlours in live leaks videos.

[saip]

Another Earthquake in pakiland?

[saip]

Earthquake in Pakistan
Islamabad affected

http://www.geo.tv/important_events/2011 ... h_news.asp

[Gagan]

The events in Tunisia will have surely given fresh ideas to Kiyani and the ISI.
The maximum they will do will be to engineer a 'revolt' against Zardari and make him flee the country, and then tout that as a great revolution, a great victory for the ordinary abduls in Pakistan and make them feel good for a few days.

Then all bets are off on who assumes power. It could be Geelani coming in as a replacement to Zardari, a new face, or Kiyani could step in on public demand to take over the onerous task of running the country.

[jash_p]

Earthquake in Pakistan
Islamabad affected

http://www.geo.tv/important_events/2011 ... h_news.asp

AOA

Allah is meharban. cause we killed kaffir Salman Tasir
Another sign and "rahem" send by Allah in form of earthquake, so massive opportunity to demand trillions of Dollars (though we gets billions) from kuffar West and Japan for sake of giving more punch to Jihad.

[Virupaksha]

http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... =1/24/2011

India can’t always fool the world

Doesnt the article and aman ki asha at the right go hand in hand.

[Ambar]

About Col.Imam, when Khalid Khwaja was killed last year the general opinion on BRF was that he was taken away by ISI for bypassing them in negotiations between Afghan and the Talibs, just the way Mullah Baradar was arrested when he threatened to by pass ISI. So why did they keep Col.Imam alive for so long?

[anupmisra]

India can’t always fool the world

Sure, but pakiland can (always fool the world).

[Singha]

maybe the ISI tried to persuade Col Imam to change his stripe and work with them; but he held firm in defence of his Qom and his Lashkar and finally they decided to cut the game short and do him in, as an example to those others on the loose who bypass the ISI...maybe folks like hamid gul who have direct channels open to talibs/AQ....

other theory is they could all have been true blue loyal ISI and those of the Qom who hate the ISI/PA for selling them out to droneacharya took their revenge.

[Theo_Fidel]

Is this the same 'Asian Tigers' crowd? The one no one else (hint hint) has heard off.

[habal]

Xinjiang – China’s Muslimwest

Travels of a paqi in xinjiang.

Most important piece is

My local guide in Urumchi, a fluent English-speaking Uighur Muslim, told me with some trepidation that the Pakistanis had a very bad reputation, being regarded as uncouth and aggressive and always ready to make advances to local women, no matter their thick and long beards and Islamic pretensions.

you can take a paqi out of paqistan but you can never remove paqistaniyat from a paqi


edited- thanks Gagan

another one

A Tibetan I met later commented that in eight hours of rioting, Tibetans had only killed 18 Chinese, whereas the Uighurs had managed to kill 140 in two hours. Sounding almost embarrassed at this relatively low “score” for Tibet, he explained this to be the result of the peaceful nature of its Buddhist people compared with the ferocity of the Muslim Uighurs!

[Gagan]

Pervez Musharraf and the Pak fauj: inhone Lal Masjid ko Shaheed kiya by their barbaric action.

Shaheed karne ke baad they took shoes inside!

Yet these murderers are still enjoying the good life while the people who had given their jaan ki kurbani, those ghazis, those maa-ein, behne aur betiyan, those brave shahouda, their rooh is demanding justice.

The brave people of Pakistan must make an azm today to rid their land from these munafaqeen and end this kufr ka nizaam that these pork eaters and whiskey drinkers have established. They have enslaved the country and looted its riches. Alas they know no shame.

It is time that the brave ghazis and behne of Pakistan should rise and avenge the shahoda and bring Khilafat to the land.

Gazwa-e-Pakistan Zindabaad

AoA to that.

[ArmenT]

Selig Harrison article in philly.com
Mumbai's American dead continue to go unavenged

In the days of the Barbary pirates, the infant U.S. Navy swiftly avenged attacks on American lives and property. But after six Americans were among the more than 160 killed in the Mumbai terrorist attacks of November 2008, America's leaders wrung their hands and did nothing.

Two years later, despite clear evidence that the attack was carried out by the Pakistani terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba with the direct encouragement of Pakistan's intelligence agency, the United States has yet to press effectively for punishment of those responsible.

The evidence of the complicity of Islamabad's Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, has been clearly established by the FBI through its interrogation of a Pakistani American, Daood Gilani, who pleaded guilty in federal court to playing a key role in Mumbai. The case against Gilani, who used the name David Headley and spent part of his youth in Philadelphia, was spelled out in an exhaustive Washington Post-Pro Publica investigative report in November, which traced Headley's links to the ISI. The report identified his ISI controller as a "Major Iqbal" who operated through Sajid Mir of Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Pakistan's casual attitude toward Lashkar was reflected in a recent comment at a Washington think tank by Ehsan ul-Haq, a former ISI director. Haq said that because Lashkar is "not attacking" Pakistan, "they're not a problem for us like the tribal terrorist groups on the border." Significantly, Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, now the chief of staff of Pakistan's army, headed the intelligence agency when Lashkar recruited Headley.

[AjayKK]

Some light madrassa logic by Yousaf Raza Gilani.

It is the first time that the Pakistani premier acknowledged that the two countries were engaged backchannel talks. He also said that the stalled peace process could also revive anytime in the near future.

The prime minister said that Pakistan wanted to resolve all issues with India but through proper dialogue. He said that Pakistan is the birthplace of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, so he does not need any invitation to come.

Gilani said that though Singh was sincere in resolving all issues between the two countries, he was under pressure from his people and parliament.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/108304/revelation-backchannel-talks-continue-with-india-says-pm/

Now it figures ...
Since India is the birthplace of four-fathers of Pakistan, Pakistanis do not need any invitation to come to mulk-e-Baray-Buzurg.

[anupmisra]

Ardeshir Cowasjee ramblings: Mostly doom and gloom. Fatwa-worthy?

Blind and stupid and savage

MY generation and the one that followed have much to answer for. But we cannot, because it is now too late. We let things slip and slide.

The frog croaks that his well is the whole world and the bigot boasts that his is the only inspired and perfect religion. The truth and the whole truth is exclusively garnered in his religion, he avers. His religion is the crown and culmination of all religions, his religion is ordained to be the universal religion of mankind and salvation is possible only through his religion, he adds.

[shiv]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=449_1184314627 ( RAW video showing the Pakistan Army inside the Red Mosque. )
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=617_1182664125 ( bbc news clip about massage parlour kidnappings)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c5_1182607733 (about chinese massage parlour kidnappings)

shiv, I could find these regarding the chinese parlours in live leaks videos.

Brilliant collection. Thank you. Just what I needed.

[RajeshG]

My view of how the Americans understand Pakistan

A lot of US government people are from military. A random google link on the number of ex-military folks in US senate/congress.

https://www.veteransadvantage.com/cms/c ... e-veterans

Americans do have a lot of respect for the military. When they see a suited/booted Gen XYZ they understandably feel this automatic/inherent respect. Put the general in uniform with his medals the respect increases. If the Gen makes some military jokes, the respect increases. If the General talks about his postings, his wars, his kills, the respect increases.

There is another side to it too. 2004 presidential elections saw an interesting strategy from the republican side to counter Kerry (google swiftboating). The wiki link is below. I havent even read it completely. I dont even know about the whole story and I believe that is the case with a vast majority of americans. I think most americans will remember Kerry being highly decorated but there being some kind of controversy over how brave he really was. I dont know how effective it was in reality. But thats not the point. The point is, it used to be talk of the town then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry ... ontroversy

[Pranay]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/01 ... ml?_r=1&hp

A former Pakistani spy who helped the Taliban rise to power in Afghanistan has died in militant captivity 10 months after he was seized in northwest Pakistan, a top official said Monday.

Sultan Amir Tarar, who as an American ally against Soviet rule in Afghanistan in the 1980s trained at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, died of a heart attack while in custody, said Tariq Hayat, the most senior government representative in the tribal regions.

Tarar was kidnapped along with a British TV journalist who was released in September and another former spy, Khalid Khawaja, who was executed by his captors in April. It is unclear why the two men traveled to the northwest, but they may have been acting as guides to the reporter.

[ramana]

Is Sultan Amir Tarar = Colonel Imam?

Why do these idiots have multiple names? Must be some fetish to appear to be many sided personalities and to give palusible deniability.

Is this the mode of the "rightly guided ones"? To have multiple names. Titles I understand but names?

[Brad Goodman]

another point about amirkhan and paki relationship we need to consider is. If we just look at their actions based on one - one relationship then we are losing the bigger picture. Amirkhans dont want to lose pakis to tallel than mountain friends completely. They know that once they lose pakis they will lose a big potential ally to create mischief in asia and maintain their geo political significance. We have seen how jernails have become expert now of using this fear and sense of opportunity as carrots and sticks to entice their 3.5 masters. Remeber what Ayub told Dulles. Our Army can be your Army now we are taking of 0.5 million trained and equiped army who wants to let go of such offer. Another thing about diplomacy we need to remember is that there are no permement friends or enemies so khan will not slam the door on jernails by nailing their coffin shut. There will always be a small opening to wriggle out. If India was ready to do business with mushy just a year after kargil and gola was wining and dining with SRK and Rani as state guest watching taj with his begum then why blame khans. Also remember Kashmir before 911 and after 911 we need to admit that there has been significant quiet out there and this is not because of ABV or MMS it is all thanks to Unkil

[ramana]

Brad, however they are prepared to lose TSP to PRC if the balance is India gains.

[Raghavendra]

Remeber what Ayub told Dulles. Our Army can be your Army now we are taking of 0.5 million trained and equiped army who wants to let go of such offer.

That army which wont fight the taliban, that army which is infested with taliban sympathizers, that army which fights insurgency with F-16's and submarines

If I was the american president, I wouldnt fund such an army which is killing my soldiers in afghanistan, i would regard it as my enemy

[ramana]

In Nov-Dec 1987 the Iraqis were facing imminent defeat from the Iranians. The KSA which had TSP troops stationed and maintained by KSA funds, wanted them to be sent to frontline to provide reserves. Zia demurred and said no way. The KSA told them to get out if they wont fight and the TSP troops were called back.

[surinder]

Tarar is a a Punjabi Jutt name. You will find in India many Sikhs with last name Tarar. Many Jutts converted to Islaam, but often retained their last names. Rafique Tarar was the president of TSP when Musharraf took over, and after a few months he was eased out. He had foot long beard.

[Lalmohan]

Is Sultan Amir Tarar = Colonel Imam?

Why do these idiots have multiple names? Must be some fetish to appear to be many sided personalities and to give palusible deniability.

Is this the mode of the "rightly guided ones"? To have multiple names. Titles I understand but names?

for 1 paqui == 10 yindus, more than 1 naam is required, no?

[ramana]

Yes. However they don't seek dus nam only a couple to confuse the agencies.

Is Tarar = Col. Imam?

[Rangudu]

Sultan Amir Tarar == Col. Imam

[ramana]

So both have been hallaled. What does this mean in relatiosn between TSPA and its irregulars?

[A_Gupta]

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... =1/24/2011

‘Key Jihadi behind Col Imam’s murder’

Monday, January 24, 2011

By Amir Mir
LAHORE: The Pakistani authorities investigating the March 25, 2010 abduction and subsequent murder of the former ISI official Colonel Sultan Amir Tarar, commonly known as Colonel Imam believe that the little known militant group called Asian Tigers, which had demanded $10 million and the custody of some key Afghan Taliban commanders in exchange for the release of the hostage, was actually a cover name for the Lashkar-e-Zil (LeZ), a loose alliance of al-Qaeda and Taliban-linked anti-American militia, led by the North Waziristan based Commander Ilyas Kashmiri, who also heads Brigade 313 and the Azad Kashmir chapter of the Harkatul Jehadul Islami (HUJI).

Muhammad Omar, a spokesman for the Taliban Media Centre, being operated by the Punjabi Taliban, had stated soon after Khawaja’s murder that he was executed because he used to call the Punjabi Taliban terrorists and refer to the Afghan Taliban as mujahideen.

Explaining their decision to execute Khawaja, the spokesman for the Punjabi Taliban, further said that all major militant organisations operating in the Waziristan region unanimously agreed to punish him and everybody wanted him to be executed as he had confessed of all the charges levelled against him. He alleged that during his previous visit to North Waziristan, Khawaja brought a list of 14 senior Punjabi Taliban commanders and told TTP leaders, Commander Hakimullah Mahsud and Commander Waliur Rahman, to hand them over to the Pakistani authorities because they were getting financial assistance from Indian intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW).

Mohammad Omar even mentioned names of jihadi commanders who were identified as Indian agents by Khawaja. Important among those mentioned in the list were Qari Hussain Mahsud, an anti-Shia close aide of Baitullah Mahsud and commonly known in the TTP circles as Ustad-e-Fidayeen or the teacher of suicide bombers, Qari Mohammad Zafar, the acting ameer of the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi who was killed in a US drone strike in North Waziristan on February 24 and Matiur Rehman, a bomb making expert of the LeJ, who is believed to be using drug money to fund the recruitment drive and reorganization of the LeJ.

[ramana]

Arun Try to get hold of the names released by that TTP spokesman. Interesting the duo thought that they can make the TTP give up their memberrs by calling them Indian agents. Same as blashphemy trick used on Taseer and in turn got hallaled..

[A_Gupta]

Ramana, May 1, 2010
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... t=5/1/2010

Omar even mentioned names of militant commanders identified as Indian agents by Khwaja and said among them were {1} Qari Zafar, {2} Rana Afzal, {3} Ustad Abdul Samad, {4} Qari Ehsan, {5} Qari Basit, {6} Ustad Aslam, {7} Yasin, {8} Qari Assadullah, {9} Qari Imran, {10} Qari Hamza, {11} Ustad Khalid, {12} Abu Huzaifa, {13} Matiur Rahman and {14} Qari Hussain Ahmad Mehsud. The last-named is considered to be the master trainer of suicide bombers.

[ramana]

What tribes do they belong to? We need to map them in the Pakiban thread.

[darshhan]

Has col Imam's body been seen or recovered? Otherwise this whole episode might have been staged just to provide a smokescreen for some other purpose.

Also any news on the supposed murder of Riyaz Bhatkal in Karachi.Any verification till now.

[Brad Goodman]

Brad, however they are prepared to lose TSP to PRC if the balance is India gains.

ramana ji you guys are experts here but if I was a diplomat I want my cake and eat it too. So yes currently they need India to spoil PRC's march but that does not mean 5-10 years down the line they dont want pakis to spoil Indian march and then PRC, India & Pakis fight so that they can sit at distance and watch WWF. Also remember Iran and whole ME circus. You dont want to lose any card that you might need in future to complete your hand.

[svinayak]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=449_1184314627 ( RAW video showing the Pakistan Army inside the Red Mosque. )
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=617_1182664125 ( bbc news clip about massage parlour kidnappings)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c5_1182607733 (about chinese massage parlour kidnappings)

shiv, I could find these regarding the chinese parlours in live leaks videos.

How do we download videos from the youtube or the liveleak.
What is the tool for each

Can somebody help me out -