China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2011 06:21



It is normal for Indians to speak the language of fear. Teenagers and young adults who are beginning to understand the world read such headlines written by "mature adults" and learn to fear. And I have been reading such headlines for decades, from the time I was a young adolescent. Just read the words there. "Panic" "worrisome". You never ever read this from the press of China, or Pakistan or the US. I will eat my words if anyone can point me to consistent use of the language of fear and retreat by an nation other the India

Indians really make up a country where being fearful is considered necessary, even sensible and normal. I am not surprised that Pakis considered Indians cowards. Even if we are not, we speak the language of cowardice. Indianness is to speak with fear. Not with confidence. The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India. Its existence in the past is of little consequence.

Sooner or later, some Chinaman with Mao's chuzptah will lead China. He will read and understand the indian psyche of fear and do something to scare the crap out of Indians, making them fear and respect China for another 50 to 75 years. The people who are proud to be young Indians today had better watch out. You parents' generation use the language of fear. They are handing the "Be shit scared" baton for you carry forward. You guys wil have to decide how to take this Indian heritage forward. I wish you luck.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Cain Marko » 04 Nov 2011 06:28

^^ Well there also seems to be the thinking that unless panic button is hit, the byzantine babu-neta-GOI does not tend to move. For e.g. it took a personal letter from then ACM Tyagi that was "leaked" I believe to the press to show what great plight IAF was in, that got an immediate order of 40 MKIs going in 2007.

THere is also this sort of thing (Perhaps not of the same dhoti shiver standard) in square jawed Yankee land - dem folks been screaming that dragon is about to dump on US properties, even the great Oz expresses its own equivalent of dhoti shiver through the mouth of the ever f22 lovin' Kopp.

Some times I say, more dhoti, shiver the better! Complete brown pant syndrome could mean that if you can't be brave like a lion and fight, at least you may fight like a cornered rat. A punch is a punch - whether out of TFTA attitude or out of dhoti shiver attitude, hurts just as bad, eh?

CM.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2011 06:35

Cain Marko wrote:^^ Well there also seems to be the thinking that unless panic button is hit, the byzantine babu-neta-GOI does not tend to move. For e.g. it took a personal letter from then ACM Tyagi that was "leaked" I believe to the press to show what great plight IAF was in, that got an immediate order of 40 MKIs going in 2007.


:D

That is part and parcel of Indians' fear psyche. Lack of trust in other Indians. That is called paranoia. "No one other than me understands the problem. Everyone else is useless/asleep/uncaring"

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Victor » 04 Nov 2011 06:37

ashish raval wrote:Any attack on India will bring all chinese shipping lanes to close and bombed. That will be the end of their trade route from Indian ocean. On the top if they try to use gwader that will be bombed too. Very nasty strategy. Indian navy will cause shite out of them in the region. not to forget un trade embargo's and miserable life that comes when India starts supplyimg arms to Tibetan population in full swing. China can implode from within. If i was China i would never want to be in nasty situation like this. :mrgreen:

This is exactly right. China's strategic oil reserve is only 14 days at present and the entire journey from the Middle East to the Malacca Straits is exposed to easy disruption. Any war started by china, no matter how short, will ensure that it is strangled of oil long enough to cripple its economy.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2011 06:55

this panic mode was also seen in the other report about chinese airbases 'surrounding' ladakh.

it took only 5 mins in google earth to point out that we have better and bigger bases in our heartland like chandigarh , avantipur and ambala at the same or lesser distance from the theater, so its china which is playing catch up there.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby svinayak » 04 Nov 2011 07:20

Jimi wrote: I doubt Pakistan really needed major, specific help from China, in consideration that Pak has world class nuclear scientists and the needed minerals. But if China had provided assistance, I believe it greatly helped the peace in the region. The result, there has been no major armed conflicts between India and Pak.

How can India bring peace to China and in East Asia. India can provide some WMD to some nations to bring about peace in the region.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tejas » 04 Nov 2011 07:46

In order to get the nuclear deal with Uncle do you think India will be allowed to proliferate Nukes? Also India has de facto joined the MTCR while simultaneously being a victim of it. Par for the course for a soft state. :evil:

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PrasadZ » 04 Nov 2011 08:05

Jimi wrote:Nope, I do not think that China would be bothered a lot more than other countries. Is it that China fought direct wars with the mightier nuclear USA and USSR?


Mighty USA and mighty Russia have been brought down by puny Pakistan. Mighty China has only seen defeat in any battle of any consequence. Elephants don't die of pin pricks but their berserk rage will damage any hopes of the dragon ever becoming great :twisted:

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Prem » 04 Nov 2011 08:58

World is still waiting to see China avenging the Japanese assault of Second world war. Stabbing in the back dont count as war victory,neither does walking over unarmed Tibbetan. As long as China rely on energy import from ME , they will remain vulnerable to Indian strike and nothing they can do about. The sea lanes will remain under Indic protection for long time. In due course all the neighbors of China will have Nukes as deterrent against any agression from PRC.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20021 » 04 Nov 2011 12:38

Victor wrote:
ashish raval wrote:Any attack on India will bring all chinese shipping lanes to close and bombed. That will be the end of their trade route from Indian ocean. On the top if they try to use gwader that will be bombed too. Very nasty strategy. Indian navy will cause shite out of them in the region. not to forget un trade embargo's and miserable life that comes when India starts supplyimg arms to Tibetan population in full swing. China can implode from within. If i was China i would never want to be in nasty situation like this. :mrgreen:

This is exactly right. China's strategic oil reserve is only 14 days at present and the entire journey from the Middle East to the Malacca Straits is exposed to easy disruption. Any war started by china, no matter how short, will ensure that it is strangled of oil long enough to cripple its economy.


It is believed that China has an oil reserve of about 300~600 million barrels, which are supposed to last anywhere between 45~90 days. Wiki is not the most reliable source, but it can be used as a quick reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_str ... rves#China

The point is not whether China has 14 or 90 days for the oil reserve. The 1962 Sino-indian conflict happened when China was not in her best shape. It was after a major war with the USA led 16 country allies, amid hysterically enforced sanction and embargo. The soviets had cut oil supplies to China and other strategical cooperation with China, while China herself just started nation building programs, with almost no domestic oil production. Now China has built an industry base that is not the worst in the world. Perhaps more to your interest, there are at least three inland oil fields in China currently producing at maintenance capacity. China also buys oil from Russia, central asian countries and south america. It is up to China whether or not use oil from the middle east. On most part, China ships oil from middle east because of economical reasons, but not a strategic must. There are many consideration for China to decide whether to take on military challenges, but embargo and trade are not the most important ones.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 04 Nov 2011 14:08

Wiki might not be the most reliable source, but you sharing China's "real" oil production capacity on an Indian forum is less reliable, not more.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby D Roy » 04 Nov 2011 18:05

I luuuv Indian journalism.


http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=16438

The article first warns:

Over the past decade the Chinese Army has built a road-rail network of over 58,000 km and nine new military airfields on the Tibetan plateau. It took the PLA two years to deploy 22 divisions against India in the 1970s. It can now deploy 34 divisions or over 4,00,000 soldiers in a month.


then parrots small war thinking and the fud of foreign internal defence propaganda

At a time when modern armies are retooling themselves into leaner fighting machines for local conflicts, the Indian Army still envisages fighting battles on a large scale. Pakistan continues to be an obsession.

to finally say:

The 2.25 million-strong Chinese Army, in contrast, is focusing on fighting only local or limited wars.


Nice.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ShauryaT » 04 Nov 2011 18:49

Marut wrote:Mountain war will be the more preferred option since territorial gains are more tangible and credible things which can be shown off, especially if it's in the region PRC terms as 'Southern Tibet'.
Can you point to Chinese history and show that they have conducted war to show off? Please note, do not fall for their propaganda of teaching a lesson et al, there is an underlying strong reason for China to do what they do.

The dividends from this victory will help consolidate their claims on Tibet by virtue of having the main Tibetan monasteries located on it territory, much like KSA becoming guardian of Islam due to the holy sites. Any territorial gain in the Northern sector will help consolidate their position to access Central Asia and the Persian Gulf through their rent-boy Pakistan thereby securing their supply chain while cutting India down to its size.
By this logic, they would have to march all the way to Bodh Gaya?

Hence it is my assertion that China will prefer a mountain war and focus on Northern sector and Tawang in the Eastern sector to ensure we don't threaten the Karakoram Highway and to legitimize their occupation of Tibet with religious sanction.
Their occupation of Tibet is not contested by ANYONE! What they contest is the only question on the table! They do have a strategic need to keep the Karakoram highway clear and that is about the only area, which is of strategic value. The other parts of the himalayas are a waste of time and India shall not just fold in these areas.

Think again on the strategic value of the IOR. This region shall be less influenced by Geography and more by trade and a strategic will to make political deals in national interests.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2011 19:22

>> It can now deploy 34 divisions or over 4,00,000 soldiers in a month.

:rotfl:
it took the NATO using its massive sea and air resources around 6 months before GW1 to build far less than that number onsite. and this when lots of POL and ammo were pre-stocked at sites in arabia for such scenarios.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 04 Nov 2011 20:00

"The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India"

Definitely. Which is why when an Indian does display such an approach, it sounds refreshing. For example, there was a panel discussion in which a couple of Indian analysts pointed out that China has superior numbers. To which another panelist( retired military official) succinctly replied, does that mean we just lie down and die? Clear headed and confident, without being brash or crude.

India will have to do the best it can, and obtain allies'- Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, Cambodia, Laos- if needed, in any future possible confrontation with communist China.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Marut » 04 Nov 2011 21:14

Singha wrote:>> It can now deploy 34 divisions or over 4,00,000 soldiers in a month.

:rotfl:
it took the NATO using its massive sea and air resources around 6 months before GW1 to build far less than that number onsite. and this when lots of POL and ammo were pre-stocked at sites in arabia for such scenarios.


Problem with DDM journos is that they think in 2D only i.e on paper.

Just to highlight what I mean: The infra project I'm working needs some 25,000 tonnes of material shipped from our plant to the site. So based on capacity of a single trailer truck, the commercial chaps calculated the cost and bid for the project. Now we have the project and halfway through execution, it was realized that the total projected transportation costs will be 300% the original estimate :shock: :shock: The logistics chap dug into it and realized the mistake. The total tonnage was divided by the truck capacity and multiplied by cost per truck for the total transportation charge. Pretty simple. Unfortunately no truck has been loaded more than half it's capacity due to the size and volume of the elements being transported :D So now I have a PM who is hopping mad and counting every paisa before signing on bills :mrgreen:

So when the chinese mobilize against us and are unable to amass 400,000 troops within a month, I'm looking forward to the DDM debate & discussions as to why PRC was unable to do so and what steps they should take to meet this target :mrgreen: :P

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2011 21:47

the only food this horde will get is sookhi rice, dried fish and whatever tibetan wildlife they are able to hunt and kill.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ShauryaT » 04 Nov 2011 22:27

>>"The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India"

Why do older people feel that they were better? There is enough practical evidence to suggest that it was not our ancestors but their progeny how are more brave and wiser in this bad mean world.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby aditya.agd » 04 Nov 2011 22:35

Indian defence planners have to make some quick purchases both off-shelf and also indigenous to defend India.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ashish raval » 05 Nov 2011 00:12

I really dont believe that Chinese can deploy so many troops around. This can only be confirmed if they did some sort of dry run which they have not or else it would have created panic in south block by now. I dont believe in extrapolated numbers. There can be many variables which come into picture when large scale deployment is done. No doubt that Chinese have khujli for long time now and last time this was on display India chose to test nuclear bomb and i believe new breed of Chinese generals dont remember what Indics are capable of. Dont think they want mushroom cloud over crowded beijing or shanghai or hongkong which will lead to immediate collateral damage to chinese economy. far too wealth and people are concentrated around this cities to be lost. Lets not compare elephant with dragon because elephant is for real while dragon is an illusion.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby aditya.agd » 05 Nov 2011 00:19

Ashish u have put a nice analogy. In India the politics is played in everything and even the defence procurements. Thanks to the British we have an archaic civilian administration and government offices. While China enjoys fast decision making process because of opaqueness of their system.

Indian diplomats must begin to use the military as a means of diplomacy to ensure correct results. Unless our diplomats feel confident of our military prowess they are bound to bend over backwards to chinese aggression. Our military planners have to take some touch decisions and be right in the front to make sure that Chinese are in no illusion.

In the case of China we have always be beaten so far... I hope this will change soon.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 05 Nov 2011 06:50

ShauryaT wrote:>>"The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India"

Why do older people feel that they were better? There is enough practical evidence to suggest that it was not our ancestors but their progeny how are more brave and wiser in this bad mean world.


Not me Shaurya. It's the older people in modern India who set the "be shit scared" trend. You may have missed the original post from which that quote was taken
viewtopic.php?p=1189077#p1189077
shiv wrote:The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India. Its existence in the past is of little consequence.

Sooner or later, some Chinaman with Mao's chuzptah will lead China. He will read and understand the indian psyche of fear and do something to scare the crap out of Indians, making them fear and respect China for another 50 to 75 years. The people who are proud to be young Indians today had better watch out. You parents' generation use the language of fear. They are handing the "Be shit scared" baton for you carry forward. You guys will have to decide how to take this Indian heritage forward. I wish you luck.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20021 » 05 Nov 2011 07:08

Prem wrote:World is still waiting to see China avenging the Japanese assault of Second world war. ...


China revenged on the Japanese atrocities, in her own way, by requiting evil deeds with kindness, a Confucius' teaching.

Once laying down their arms after the surrender, the defeated Japanese received human treatment and were granted safe passage for repatriation. Japanese families deserted thousands of their youngsters in China. Those left-behind Japanese kids were taken in by ordinary Chinese families and raised like their own children. By the seventies of last century, most of the Japanese war orphans had eventually found their parents in Japan, and many moved back to Japan for family reunion. China also unilaterally gave up demanding war reparation from Japan. However the Japanese atrocities in China were forgiven, but not forgotten. Every year on the memorial days for the war, you can hear sirens all over China to remind people the danger of imminent invasions.
You can find more information on the Japaneses war orphans here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_orphans_in_China

Consistently, thousands of Indian POWs in the 1962 conflict were well treated after laying down their arms. They were fed, clothed, medical tendered, and handed over to Red-Cross, with their weapons cleaned. In addition, after the Korean war, quite a few western POWs, mostly from the USA, opted to stay in China.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 05 Nov 2011 07:24

Jimi wrote:
China revenged on the Japanese atrocities, in her own way, by requiting evil deeds with kindness, a Confucius' teaching.


My fellow Indians. Please have this written in letters of gold and put it up somewhere. I love the pride with which it is being stated as an act of strength and mercy. If an Indian had said this :rotfl: :eek:

But as long as it is not an Indian saying it, it is a sign of great strength and wisdom.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 05 Nov 2011 07:51

The opium is strong in this one.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Prem » 05 Nov 2011 08:02

shiv wrote:
Jimi wrote:
China revenged on the Japanese atrocities, in her own way, by requiting evil deeds with kindness, a Confucius' teaching.


My fellow Indians. Please have this written in letters of gold and put it up somewhere. I love the pride with which it is being stated as an act of strength and mercy. If an Indian had said this :rotfl: :eek:
But as long as it is not an Indian saying it, it is a sign of great strength and wisdom.


Indian did face this Kind China in 62 and poor Tibbetan and Uighers still feeling the warmth. Great of China
to let Japaneese go free and then get into the busines of selling the bdoy parts, human organs of its own people.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Tumba » 05 Nov 2011 09:39

shiv wrote:


It is normal for Indians to speak the language of fear. Teenagers and young adults who are beginning to understand the world read such headlines written by "mature adults" and learn to fear. And I have been reading such headlines for decades, from the time I was a young adolescent. Just read the words there. "Panic" "worrisome". You never ever read this from the press of China, or Pakistan or the US. I will eat my words if anyone can point me to consistent use of the language of fear and retreat by an nation other the India

Indians really make up a country where being fearful is considered necessary, even sensible and normal. I am not surprised that Pakis considered Indians cowards. Even if we are not, we speak the language of cowardice. Indianness is to speak with fear. Not with confidence. The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India. Its existence in the past is of little consequence.

Sooner or later, some Chinaman with Mao's chuzptah will lead China. He will read and understand the indian psyche of fear and do something to scare the crap out of Indians, making them fear and respect China for another 50 to 75 years. The people who are proud to be young Indians today had better watch out. You parents' generation use the language of fear. They are handing the "Be shit scared" baton for you carry forward. You guys wil have to decide how to take this Indian heritage forward. I wish you luck.




Its not these teenagers reading these TOILET headlines will fight on CCP/Porki lines. The men who will fight on Battle Zones are in different league.

The Fear Factor is necessary in a governance system like ours or USA.
Average Porkistani/CCP Cadre can not be told they are ill prepared, they are weak, because military strategies are the same people who GOVERN the average abdul or mango Comrade.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20021 » 05 Nov 2011 09:54

shiv wrote:Ah Congrats. Gentle collision this time and no space debris.


It has been reported that China is willing to share the spacelab for international research projects. A Sino-German research project is on board of the SZ-8 spaceship already. It would be nice if Asian countries can come together to make contributions to the development of humanity.

China is also eying to provide shuttle service for an outer space launching station in discussion by an international consortium to send a manned spaceship to Mars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/world ... ished.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Airavat » 05 Nov 2011 11:17

Parsing China’s Fourth Fleet
author James C. Bussert is employed at the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren, Virginia

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 05 Nov 2011 11:36

sounds like 4th fleet is the Lashkar/ISI wing of the PA in relation to the PLAN. we can expect visits from them when ONGC starts work in indo-china sea.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby GopiD » 05 Nov 2011 13:16

Jimi wrote:
shiv wrote:Ah Congrats. Gentle collision this time and no space debris.


It has been reported that China is willing to share the spacelab for international research projects. A Sino-German research project is on board of the SZ-8 spaceship already. It would be nice if Asian countries can come together to make contributions to the DEVELOPMENT OF HUMANITY.


Development of Humanity??

If that's the case, you and your brothers should have vacated TIBET and left tibetans alone long ago for the sake of DEVELOPMENT OF HUMANITY.......

I think he is too much into the party propoganda.....

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ashish raval » 05 Nov 2011 13:40

^^ Tibetans are not humans for ccp or china. Chinese undeniable ambition is to rule the world economically and to project its ambition it will do all it can to push their people to limits. The only good thing about china is their leaders were visionary and clever while ours are stupid, currupt and short sighted. Manmohan and pranab and antony (to some extent) are only real leaders who could be thought of as credible and thoughtful leaders in India, rest all are bunch of idiots and goons.
Chinese strategy is pretty simple, open multiple points of confrontation now to get concession on the original issue, it brings these additional issues on forefront and on negotiating table it acts like big brother and gives concessions on non issue issues and gets return concessions from other side on the original issue. All too familiar negotiating tactics which is also followed in vendor seller relationship as bargaining chips. I also believe that Chinese by racheting up the pressure wants India to spend more on military in short medium term and take its eyes off from economy paving way for china to dominate economic front as defacto manufacturing and assembly point.
To counter this, India should reduce its corporation and other taxes on "new" manufacturing units which produces good to export for at least 10 years so that companies who are willing to set up plants in India can effectively get return on their investment and realise their asset value. India needs drastic economic reforms and this government is now gone into slumber mode. We need to eat the Chinese pie in manufacturing in a big big way to get anywhere near to the level of trade that china does with rest of the world. India's strategic location means that it is possible if we have right strategy to move forward. :roll:

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 05 Nov 2011 15:35

Tumba wrote:
Its not these teenagers reading these TOILET headlines will fight on CCP/Porki lines. The men who will fight on Battle Zones are in different league.

The Fear Factor is necessary in a governance system like ours or USA.
Average Porkistani/CCP Cadre can not be told they are ill prepared, they are weak, because military strategies are the same people who GOVERN the average abdul or mango Comrade.


Soldiers fight despite fear. It is Indian civilians and the press who are shitting in their pants before you can spell C_H-I-N-A. We do not need that. We have too much of that.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 05 Nov 2011 15:37

Jimi wrote:It has been reported that China is willing to share the spacelab for international research projects. A Sino-German research project is on board of the SZ-8 spaceship already. It would be nice if Asian countries can come together to make contributions to the development of humanity.


Last time Asian countries got together for the cause of humanity the Chinese gave their prostitute Pakistan enriched Uranium for bomb making and a working bomb design.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Christopher Sidor » 05 Nov 2011 18:42

Jimi wrote:
shiv wrote:Ah Congrats. Gentle collision this time and no space debris.


It has been reported that China is willing to share the spacelab for international research projects. A Sino-German research project is on board of the SZ-8 spaceship already. It would be nice if Asian countries can come together to make contributions to the development of humanity.

China is also eying to provide shuttle service for an outer space launching station in discussion by an international consortium to send a manned spaceship to Mars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/world ... ished.html

Congratulations to China on the progress it has made in outer space. It would be nice to see another space station, other than ISS that is, orbiting earth.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rajrang » 05 Nov 2011 19:07

Singha wrote:>> It can now deploy 34 divisions or over 4,00,000 soldiers in a month.

:rotfl:
it took the NATO using its massive sea and air resources around 6 months before GW1 to build far less than that number onsite. and this when lots of POL and ammo were pre-stocked at sites in arabia for such scenarios.



Between December 20 2001 and January 2002, India (500,000) and Pakistan (300,000) moved about 800,000 troops to the border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80 ... n_standoff

I realize that only a portion of it is mountainous (Kashmir) where typical altitudes are also less than 10,000 feet. Also distances between bases and the front are much less, plus transportation is far more extensive.
Last edited by rajrang on 05 Nov 2011 19:19, edited 2 times in total.

member_20029
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20029 » 05 Nov 2011 19:11

Christopher Sidor wrote:
Congratulations to China on the progress it has made in outer space. It would be nice to see another space station, other than ISS that is, orbiting earth.[/quote]

you think so?
with the current mess in the global economy, I think the "Chinese Space program" is just a jab at the US for axing NASA.
I don't think China wants to stop building nukes and cloned guns and copied fighter aircraft for some spaceships.
[or, it can't afford them]

VinodTK
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby VinodTK » 05 Nov 2011 19:32

China Seen Deploying New Nuke-Ready Ballistic Missiles
Authors Hans Kristensen and Robert Norris estimated that China now possesses 240 nuclear weapons as well as some 140 ballistic missiles fielded on land, 72 missiles with ranges that can hit U.S. targets and 40 missiles capable of striking the U.S. mainland.

However, Beijing has run into problems in developing a sea-based platform for its nuclear warheads, according to the authors. "Efforts to deploy JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missiles on [the] new Jin-class SSBNs [ballistic-missile submarines] have suffered setbacks. Because of this, China does not have any operational [submarine-launched ballistic missiles]."

"China's main concern is the survivability of its minimum nuclear deterrent, and it spends considerable resources on dispersing and hiding its land-based missiles," Norris and Kristensen wrote. "This makes its SSBN program even more puzzling, for it is much riskier to deploy nuclear weapons at sea, where the SSBNs could be sunk by unfriendly forces."

"The U.S. government has complained for years that China is too opaque regarding its military forces and budgets and that it needs to be more open," the authors noted (see GSN, Oct. 28; Kristensen/Norris, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, November/December 2011).

Even as it adds to its stockpile of weapons capable of striking the United States, the People's Liberation Army is also aiming missiles at Russia and India, the Times of India reported. The DF-31 is capable of traveling nearly 4,500 miles.

Sources within India's government are concerned that much of the buildup of Chinese nuclear forces is taking place in the Delingha region, which is only about 1,240 miles away from New Delhi.

Indian government personnel fear their country is under particular consideration for targeting by China, unlike other nearby nations such as Nepal, Myanmar and Pakistan.

Kristensen cautioned, though, that China's nuclear posture is focused on countering a number of possible antagonists.

"One factor that can contribute to making the situation better or worse between China and India is of course India's own military modernization along the India-China border as well as India's development of longer-range nuclear missiles that are more directly aimed at China," Kristensen told the Times.

The Bulletin report notes that "deployment of the DF-31, first introduced in 2006, continues at a slow rate; China is using the DF-31 ICBM to replace its older DF-4 missiles. We estimate that China deploys 10-20 DF-31s, with the same number of launchers"

ShauryaT
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ShauryaT » 05 Nov 2011 22:40

shiv wrote:Not me Shaurya. It's the older people in modern India who set the "be shit scared" trend. You may have missed the original post from which that quote was taken
viewtopic.php?p=1189077#p1189077
shiv wrote:The ideals of calm courage in the face of adversity is non existent in modern India. Its existence in the past is of little consequence.

Sooner or later, some Chinaman with Mao's chuzptah will lead China. He will read and understand the indian psyche of fear and do something to scare the crap out of Indians, making them fear and respect China for another 50 to 75 years. The people who are proud to be young Indians today had better watch out. You parents' generation use the language of fear. They are handing the "Be shit scared" baton for you carry forward. You guys will have to decide how to take this Indian heritage forward. I wish you luck.
Thanks for the correction Shiv ji. I indeed responded to only part of the post.

Tumba
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Tumba » 05 Nov 2011 23:31

shiv wrote:
Tumba wrote:
Its not these teenagers reading these TOILET headlines will fight on CCP/Porki lines. The men who will fight on Battle Zones are in different league.

The Fear Factor is necessary in a governance system like ours or USA.
Average Porkistani/CCP Cadre can not be told they are ill prepared, they are weak, because military strategies are the same people who GOVERN the average abdul or mango Comrade.


Soldiers fight despite fear. It is Indian civilians and the press who are shitting in their pants before you can spell C_H-I-N-A. We do not need that. We have too much of that.



Indian Press and Indian Civilians can not be grouped together, good part of Billion Indians don't follow Indian Press.
The small amount of Indian Populace who follow these stories gets direct view of indirect channelization from PR brigade of Indian Military pushing GOI to fasten the process of modernization and justify the just and required spending on military.
It is because of these stories you see 99% people around you will be agreeing on more military spending, these stories keeps people like you and me favorable to increasing defenses of Indian Military which are very much required otherwise you will see a scum of a leader like Nehru again.

So never categorize Indian civilians as a whole and the press. What I see right now in General Indian Populaces is the energy which can power back the Indian Civilization to the glory she attained thousand years back. PorkEaters and thr Porks
simply can not replicate what Qasim did in Sindh or britishers did back when small Indian States were left defenseless to fight the invaders.


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