China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 14 Jan 2012 11:58

shiv wrote:
rohitvats wrote:In the 3rd pic, one can see what looks like a/c placed behind the turret within the grills. I think something similar will happen if IA opts for ECS aka a/c for T-90. Shows the acute limitation of space inside the russian design philosophy. That thing is going to glow like a sun when seen from a NVD/TI.


I can see a little face peering out from under the main gun in the 2nd pic, so I expect the wiper-equipped periscope in the 5th pic is the one on the turret next to the machine gun.

The sloped turret sides look nice but the inside is likely to be cramped and the tank appears susceptible to top attack.

Why would the Chinese put a huge a/c outside the tank for use in the world's coldest desert? For export to dealest plostitute maybe?


The tank is for export only if you read my header. I don' think its for Pakistan since they have their own Al Khalid program but Norinco had exported tanks to numerous customers and some of them are from hot desert environment.

Here is their own domestic tanks on PLA service it looks much heavier with some kind of shtora style protection system

Image

IN TIBET
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Don on 14 Jan 2012 12:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Gurneesh » 14 Jan 2012 12:00

Singha wrote:AC by definition has a heating mode also. its the dilli style desert coolers (a straw mat with water running down and air blowing through it) that can only cool.

which brings me to my next question. if T90xyz in our hands has neither a AC or a APU, how are they going to operate in the icy cold tibet nights ? or is there a russian jugaad way to warm the insides using air flowing in over the hot engines? (not useful when engines are shut though)


AC for heating is very different from AC for cooling. Heating air is as simple as putting an electric coil and passing current through it. Cooling on the other hand is much more difficult as it requires a fairly complex thermodynamic cycle (generally a vapor compression cycle) to perform. This requires a compressor, a low temperature heat exchanger (for removing heat from the compartment) a high temperature heat exchanger (for dumping heat to the environment) and a throttling device (to expand the refrigerant so that it cools down).

The fan things that we see on rooftops (or behind the said tanks turret) is the high temp heat exchanger. This means that the designers want to cool something. If they wanted to heat something, they could have just put a high resistance coil and possibly a blower.

Chinese anyways donot use MBT2000. Mainly Pakis use them.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohitvats » 14 Jan 2012 12:35

^^^Thanks for the great explanation.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 14 Jan 2012 13:02

how hot are days in the high desert? maybe the scorching sun of tibet needs some AC also in daytime?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohitvats » 14 Jan 2012 13:14

^^^The issue in high-altitude deserts is that sun-rays pass through a thinner filter and UV content is high (IMO)....the issue of sun-burns in humans is quite acute...especially, outsiders like tourists and troops. As far as temperature inside the tanks is concerned, the climate and temprature chart here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leh) gives details. The temprature should be mangeable inside the tanks and OK for the latest electronic stuff to work properly.

But we sure will need a/c to keep troops warms and other such system for preventing the oil/lubricants from freezing over and to allow engine to start after a cold night in open terrain. The IA would have drawn up SOP for such things after deployment of T-72 in Leh in the mid-80s and continued deployment of BMP-II.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 14 Jan 2012 14:14

Cars in the UK in the bad old 80s mostly had heating only which was basically a fan that blew air over the radiator and into the cabin. Heating was trivial. The UK did not need cooling in the days before global warming. It is only cooling that requires the sort of heat exchanger fan that you see at the back of the tank. Looks like an afterthought. Like cycle with motor
Image


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Shalav » 15 Jan 2012 20:31

Shiv,

It is inefficient to consume extra energy to produce heat when there is so much surplus heat being generated by the combustion motor. Bypass air is the most efficient way to provide heating to the passenger's compartment. It is still done that way. That's why you don't get heated air on cold days till your engine warms up even today.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 15 Jan 2012 20:54

that tibet road looks good.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 15 Jan 2012 21:46

Shalav wrote:Shiv,

It is inefficient to consume extra energy to produce heat when there is so much surplus heat being generated by the combustion motor. Bypass air is the most efficient way to provide heating to the passenger's compartment. It is still done that way. That's why you don't get heated air on cold days till your engine warms up even today.


Absolutely no argument with that. That is why the presence of a large fan on the outside is indicative of cooling, not heating. That is what I meant by my post.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby adityadange » 15 Jan 2012 22:43



why would one require to transport a road vehicle on other road vehicle?
1) i assume chinese tanks are capable of travelling on road.
2) with a tank on board of approx 45 tons wouldnt one require bigger engines ==>> more fuel ==> more operating costs?
3) in case i dont want to damage the road wouldnt rubber padding on tracks be better option? or driving the tank off the road (again i assume it is capable of travelling off road)
4) why not rail transport? i think i would be cheaper and faster.
5) instead of deploying can be taken back to garage for repairs???

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohitvats » 15 Jan 2012 22:53

Tanks are transported from point a to point b using trailers - same as you see in the pics. This is more efficient and economical. Those tanks engines and tracks have finite life and are meant to be used during exercises/wars. You would not want to spend that engine time in simply going from point a to point b. Secondly, tanks do 1kms in 4-5L of diesel - better to transport them using those trailers. Saves fuel and engines/tracks from wear and tear.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby adityadange » 15 Jan 2012 23:00

rohitvats wrote:Tanks are transported from point a to point b using trailers - same as you see in the pics. This is more efficient and economical. Those tanks engines and tracks have finite life and are meant to be used during exercises/wars. You would not want to spend that engine time in simply going from point a to point b. Secondly, tanks do 1kms in 4-5L of diesel - better to transport them using those trailers. Saves fuel and engines/tracks from wear and tear.


thanks for the info.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby wrdos » 16 Jan 2012 10:42

It is a Class2 Highway.

BTW, Chinese highway hierarchy for your information:
- Expressway, full access control, at least 4 lanes;
- Class1 Highway, at least 4 lanes;
- Class2 Highway, 2 lanes with hard shoulder (enough for parking or running slow speed vehicles);
- Class3 Highway, 2 lanes paved road

Singha wrote:that tibet road looks good.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Roperia » 16 Jan 2012 14:09

FM assures army funds to create new strike corps

Finance minister Pranab Mukherjee has assured army chief General VK Singh that fiscal go-ahead for creation of a new strike corps based at Pannagarh and bolstering up of defence along the 4,057 kilometre Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China will soon be accorded so that the vital matter is
taken up for approval by the Cabinet Committee for Security (CCS).

Mukherjee gave this verbal commitment when General Singh called on the finance minister after his return from Myanmar on January 9, and requested him for speedy expedition of the force and weapon accretion process so that orders could be issued for recruitment and raising two more divisions for proposed Pannagarh Corps.

Singh has met Mukherjee thrice on this issue and has written at least once to the Finance Ministry after the latter raised sundry questions on the Indian Army's threat assessment on China owing to significant financial implications involved.

Defence minister AK Antony on his part is confident that the matter would be taken up by the CCS in 2011-2012 financial year and the fiscal impact would be spread over next five years.

While China has resurrected a lean and mean PLA machine with world class infrastructure along the LAC, India is still struggling to improve its road infrastructure and force capability.

However, the Indian Army is struggling for the UPA government support to raise Pannagarh Corps, two armoured brigades in Sikkim (near Nathu La) and Ladakh (Chusul), and an additional infantry brigade in Barahoti plains in the middle sector.

The latest objections have been raised by deputy national security advisor Lt Gen (Retd) Prakash Menon, who has suggested that force accretion and resources should be equally distributed among the three services rather than only focus on the Army.


Gen Menon is learnt to be partial to India enhancing its naval capabilities to tackle China as the latter has in fact reduced number of troops in Tibet by using rapid deployment formations and has beefed up PLA Navy.

The Indian Army, on its part, has made it amply clear that it need force accretion as threat potential of a border flare-up with PLA is omnipresent till the boundary is finally demarcated by the two nations.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rajrang » 16 Jan 2012 20:52

Chinese State Councillor's article in The Hindu newspaper

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 511326.cms

Chinese leaders communicating directly with the Indian public can be used to manipulate Indian public opinion with lies. Can Indian leaders write similar articles in the People's Daily? Next the Chinese can start writing articles about Dalai Lama, Arunachal Pradesh, new Indian army divisions, S. China Sea, internal problems of India etc.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Airavat » 17 Jan 2012 07:37

Chinese army’s first training simulation game

Co-developed by the People's Liberation Army, Glorious Mission, the online, first-person shooter game allows players to destroy enemies that resemble U.S. forces.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby koti » 17 Jan 2012 09:51

The status of Chinese Nuclear Submarines.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hticbm ... 20116.aspx

Can anyone comment on the credibility of the source?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby arnabh » 17 Jan 2012 10:48

Lt General Parnaik's warning on China

http://www.timesnow.tv/Top-Generals-war ... 393849.cms

Top General's warning to China
17 Jan 2012, 0917 hrs IST, TIMES NOW
As the fifteenth round of indo-china boundary talks begin, efforts are on to build confidence between the two sides amid contentious issues that have shadowed bilateral talks for the past few weeks.

Even with that process underway comes a word of caution from one of Indian army's top generals. The GOC in charge of the all important northern command has reported a number of cases of transgressions from the Chinese side, including the strategically vital Demchok raising concern over a potential threat.

Lt General Parnaik may have stopped from categorically calling china a threat to India but his concerns over a potential Chinese march through Tibet cannot be ignored.

Shivshankar Menon is likely to work out details of a pact on the border mechanism with his chinese counterpart today. But General Parnaik's word would weigh heavy on any such understanding.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_21708 » 18 Jan 2012 10:58

China banking on Pakistan for India intel?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 98640.aspx

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby mikehurst » 18 Jan 2012 11:33

rajrang wrote:Chinese State Councillor's article in The Hindu newspaper

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 511326.cms

Chinese leaders communicating directly with the Indian public can be used to manipulate Indian public opinion with lies. Can Indian leaders write similar articles in the People's Daily? Next the Chinese can start writing articles about Dalai Lama, Arunachal Pradesh, new Indian army divisions, S. China Sea, internal problems of India etc.


Well Indian’s have free access to write in the Indian version of the ‘People’s Daily’ a.k.a the Hindu; see this article for example, http://hindu.com/2006/11/24/stories/200 ... 1100.htm... :P

Jokes apart, does it really matter that Chinese politicians are allowed to write in Indian newspapers, even blatantly biased ones like the Hindu. So long as the citizens have the right and freedom to counter, ignore and or write against the Chinese viewpoints howsoever disseminated, let them shout themselves hoarse. Freedom of speech is a fundamental right, and an important corollary would be the right to hear others.

- Mike.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rajrang » 18 Jan 2012 11:57

mikehurst wrote:
rajrang wrote:Chinese State Councillor's article in The Hindu newspaper

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 511326.cms

Chinese leaders communicating directly with the Indian public can be used to manipulate Indian public opinion with lies. Can Indian leaders write similar articles in the People's Daily? Next the Chinese can start writing articles about Dalai Lama, Arunachal Pradesh, new Indian army divisions, S. China Sea, internal problems of India etc.


Well Indian’s have free access to write in the Indian version of the ‘People’s Daily’ a.k.a the Hindu; see this article for example, http://hindu.com/2006/11/24/stories/200 ... 1100.htm... :P

Jokes apart, does it really matter that Chinese politicians are allowed to write in Indian newspapers, even blatantly biased ones like the Hindu. So long as the citizens have the right and freedom to counter, ignore and or write against the Chinese viewpoints howsoever disseminated, let them shout themselves hoarse. Freedom of speech is a fundamental right, and an important corollary would be the right to hear others.

- Mike.



You have an excellent point. I agree with you with the caveat that Indian democracy and freedom of speech etc is for Indians as well as foreigners living or visiting India. I think this freedom should not include leaders of adverserial counries/organizations that claim Indian territory.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby srai » 18 Jan 2012 11:59

How China is advancing its military reach

...
It is thought that China plans to build three aircraft carrier battle groups, each armed with 40 fighters, up to eight warships, three nuclear-powered attack submarines and a number of support vessels. The PLA Navy's retrofitted Varyag carrier, currently under sea-trials, will serve as a training platform.
...


The 3 carrier battle groups totals out to the following:

  • 3 x Aircraft Carriers + 1 x training/reserve carrier
  • 120 x Fighters
  • 24 x FFG/DDG
  • 9 x SSN
  • ?? x Support Ships (at the minimum 3 to 6 x Large Fleet Tankers)

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby svinayak » 18 Jan 2012 12:08

rajrang wrote:
Chinese leaders communicating directly with the Indian public can be used to manipulate Indian public opinion with lies.
You have an excellent point. I agree with you with the caveat that Indian democracy and freedom of speech etc is for Indians as well as foreigners living or visiting India. I think this freedom should not include leaders of adverserial counries/organizations that claim Indian territory.

Indians will respect only those countries which respect Indians and have similar freedom. Indians demand similar reciprocating access.
Oppressing monks are not the way Indians can be impressed.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby mikehurst » 18 Jan 2012 13:27

rajrang wrote:
You have an excellent point. I agree with you with the caveat that Indian democracy and freedom of speech etc is for Indians as well as foreigners living or visiting India. I think this freedom should not include leaders of adverserial counries/organizations that claim Indian territory.
[/quote]

OT, but a small correction; foreigners, non-citizens, barbarians :) are entitled to only human rights at best, only citizens have the right to speak and to hear what they want. though even this right of citizens is not as strong as the american freedom of speech right.

- Mike.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 18 Jan 2012 13:48

rajrang wrote:You have an excellent point. I agree with you with the caveat that Indian democracy and freedom of speech etc is for Indians as well as foreigners living or visiting India. I think this freedom should not include leaders of adverserial counries/organizations that claim Indian territory.

I want to ring in my endorsement too. I mean, you and I, both of us are just simpletons and will be taken in by any propaganda anyone would write. The worst possible result is that the common man make up his own mind about the nature of our adversaries and we can't really have that. I mean our government, which is as pure as driven snow, feeds us with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, while the Chinese will always lie through their teeth and brainwash our simpleton unwashed masses. Our Mai-baap sarkar should limit hostile information so as not to confuse us. Satyameva Jayate.

Next the Chinese can start writing articles about Dalai Lama, Arunachal Pradesh, new Indian army divisions, S. China Sea, internal problems of India etc.

What is the perceived problem here? That they might be lying or that they might be telling the truth?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2012 14:31

That is not how free press works ... we can't/shouldn't stop anybody from writing (unless it leads to violence) ... selective censorship is a dangerous tool ... who decides what has to be censored.

The whole idea is about openness ... if you think that somebody's points are invalid, you provide your counterpoint ... if you think somebody is portraying his/her bias or creating false propaganda/thoughts, call it!

I would hate the day when India chooses to take step back and moves towards the stupid rules of censorship as exercised in China!

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20317 » 18 Jan 2012 16:40

Would I be wrong in suggesting that Chinese writing in our newspapers will allow us to attack their line of thought too. I am salivating at the thought. Lets feed Hu to the dogs. or did I miss some perspective?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 18 Jan 2012 17:19

ravi_g wrote:Would I be wrong in suggesting that Chinese writing in our newspapers will allow us to attack their line of thought too. I am salivating at the thought. Lets feed Hu to the dogs. or did I miss some perspective?


Yeah you forgot one perspective, An alternative to reflexively "attacking their line of thought" would be about trying to figure what they are saying, and what do they really mean?

Lets see what he is saying, so we can "attack his line of thought".
[1] Cooperate to economy, trade and finance.
[2] Strengthen people to people ties.
[3] Improve political trust through dialogue and communication
[4] Expand cooperation in international affairs.

How about a saner, less suicidal take on the relationship?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-vs-china-dai-bingguo-shivshankar-menon-pla-indian-army/1/168402.html

another interesting article,
http://business-standard.com/india/news/shyam-saran-talking-downtension/462115/

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Kailash » 19 Jan 2012 11:42

FWIW, eurasia review reports that China has moved ICBMs to Tibet region

Intercontinental missiles such as the DF-31 and DF-31A have also been deployed by China at Delingha, north of Tibet. On the border with India, China has deployed 13 Border Defence Regiments totalling around 300,000 troops. Airfields have also been established at Hoping, Pangta and Kong Ka, which are in addition to the existing six airfields in the Tibetan Autonomous Region, for supporting fighter aircraft and enhance the PLA’s airlift capability.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby chaanakya » 19 Jan 2012 20:53

^^Funny, Euresiareview.com does not come in browser and is accessible through Anon proxy. Is it gagged in India??

However from the same article

Finance has asked question about threat from China two years from now.

In response, India has upgraded its own military presence in the eastern sector by its decision to deploy the 290 km-range Brahmos supersonic cruise missile in order to strengthen its defence posture vis-à-vis China there. A five year expansion plan to induct 90,000 more troops and deploy four more divisions in the eastern sector is also underway. Already, there are 120,000 Indian troops stationed in the eastern sector, supported by two Sukhoi 30 MKI squadrons from Tezpur in Assam (See Figure I).

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 19 Jan 2012 21:06

chaanakya wrote:^^Funny, Euresiareview.com does not come in browser and is accessible through Anon proxy. Is it gagged in India??


I can see it.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2012 10:16

there are vast flat dry unopulated areas in tibet where 50 airfields can be made in desired. we dont seem to have the luxury down here in gangetic plains.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby hailinfreq » 20 Jan 2012 11:40

Yeah you forgot one perspective, An alternative to reflexively "attacking their line of thought" would be about trying to figure what they are saying, and what do they really mean?


The problem is that most of these are bromides and are sometimes dangerous ideas:

Lets see, Cooperate to economy, trade and finance.

China is considered by most nations to be at least a bit of a rogue player in trade. Indian industries suffer and will continue to suffer because of China's currency manipulation. Most foreign companies that have dealt with China in China have lost out in various ways (including industrial espionage) in the long run. Increasing co-operation will just mean more Chinese access to India's markets at this point. Except on a case by case basis, it might be safer for India

[2] Strengthen people to people ties.

what exactly does this mean? Given that china supports various violent Indian communist/ Maoist/Naxal movements, allowing greater access to Chinese citizens is a security risk. There are already a lot of people to people ties given that India and China have large expatriate populations which often mix with each other. It does not really seem to made any difference. Also the Chinese have a large number of supporters in the left who have been to china / have had contacts with Chinese people. This has benefited China a lot through easy access to propaganda channels in India. It does not appear to have benefited India though.

[3] Improve political trust through dialogue and communication

Sure communication is always good. But in perspective talks with China have been going on forever -- if there isn't much trust by now, some more talks wont help.

[4] Expand cooperation in international affairs.

India already does this with mixed results. There were suspicions that India had been played by china in the climate talks some time back. Agin co-operation should be only on a case to case basis...

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 20 Jan 2012 12:28

hailinfreq, yes I am aware of Chinese economic dumping, diplomatic support to Pakistan, arms supplies to naxals etc etc.

An call is currently being made to improve ties; this should be welcomed and reciprocated. Yes, China will maneuverer towards its own national advantage, as will India. Either would be stupid not to.

But to attack the line of thought that "we should cooperate and become better friends" is nonsensical. What next? Dismiss motherhood and apple pies cause the Chinese approve of it?

No one is calling out for blindly trusting our adversaries. But when a hand is extended in friendship (however insincerely) it must be reciprocated. Just don't drop the stick, keep hold of it in the left hand.

There are already a lot of people to people ties given that India and China have large expatriate populations which often mix with each other. It does not really seem to made any difference. Also the Chinese have a large number of supporters in the left who have been to china / have had contacts with Chinese people. This has benefited China a lot through easy access to propaganda channels in India. It does not appear to have benefited India though.


If people to people exchanges are largely limited to expat populations then no wonder it has not made any difference, but I agree with you that P2P will not make a fundamental impact on mutual trust or national priorities, rather it will according to the old saw promote 'familiarity that breeds contempt'.

IMO, The point of the people to people contact is less to do building institutional trust, but as a check on each of our own governments. If the national governments are the sole source of the adversarial image there is a non-trivial chance of 'they hate us for our freedoms' moments.

Regarding discouraging people to people contact : you have heard of similar things tried elsewhere - Berlin Wall, Iron curtain, Great Firewall of china etc. Doesn't have a very good track record nor works very well.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 20 Jan 2012 13:21

China Plays Rough
India breathes fire as dragon China dominates

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 20 Jan 2012 13:49

Austin wrote:China Plays Rough
India breathes fire as dragon China dominates

Image


Other than the first point, the last four hardly seem to be throwing in the towel.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20317 » 20 Jan 2012 15:33

Badar wrote:
ravi_g wrote:Would I be wrong in suggesting that Chinese writing in our newspapers will allow us to attack their line of thought too. I am salivating at the thought. Lets feed Hu to the dogs. or did I miss some perspective?


Yeah you forgot one perspective, An alternative to reflexively "attacking their line of thought" would be about trying to figure what they are saying, and what do they really mean?

Lets see what he is saying, so we can "attack his line of thought".
[1] Cooperate to economy, trade and finance.
[2] Strengthen people to people ties.
[3] Improve political trust through dialogue and communication
[4] Expand cooperation in international affairs.

How about a saner, less suicidal take on the relationship?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-vs-china-dai-bingguo-shivshankar-menon-pla-indian-army/1/168402.html

another interesting article,
http://business-standard.com/india/news/shyam-saran-talking-downtension/462115/




Rajrang – “Chinese leaders communicating directly with the Indian public can be used to manipulate Indian public opinion with lies.”
mikehurst – “Well Indian’s have free access to write in the Indian version of the ‘People’s Daily’ a.k.a the Hindu”

ravi_g - "will allow us to attack their line of thought too"

becomes

'reflexively "attacking their line of thought"'

Only goes to show how a person can only further his own goals. Surely that is why the Chinese would want to address our people, direct. To be able to further their interests. Say for example the Danes don’t care enough to want to have a contact with me nor do I itch for it. No mutual interest no any mutual enmity no counter claims.
Though this is unprecedented, a foreign govt. addressing the citizens of a country that it does not directly govern. Even if not unprecedented, I hope you would grant that this is not the standard practice. At least I don’t remember being addressed to, by say a confidante of the Amerikhan/Pakistani Head of State. Someone who is “said to be close to” Amerikhan/Pakistani Head of State. Have you heard words to the effect that "There does not exist such a thing as Amerikhan/Pakistani 's attempt to 'attack India' or 'suppress India's development'. Amerikhan/Pakistani will remain committed to the path of peaceful development,"?
Badar when a lawyer goes to work he carries a vakalatnama, when you report to work you carry your ID card around your neck. Have you been shown any protocol for such an interact as you have ended up supporting?
Personally I am all game for this too, so long as the addresser and his appologists can take what comes with it.
Badar your 4 points have a whole hearted support from me. Only thing that seems prudent is to have the ability to judge xyz from ‘hindi chini bhai bhai’ which I am sure a senior like yourself on the forum (240 posts to my 100) will grant is possible with only a through hammering of the proposal. If there is any substance to the proposal it will outlast the hammering.

Badar
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Posts: 410
Joined: 23 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 20 Jan 2012 19:06

Though this is unprecedented, a foreign govt. addressing the citizens of a country that it does not directly govern. Even if not unprecedented, I hope you would grant that this is not the standard practice.


ravi_g, ambassadors writing opinion pieces in newspapers is hardly novel or comment worthy.

Only thing that seems prudent is to have the ability to judge xyz from ‘hindi chini bhai bhai’ ... is possible with only a through hammering of the proposal. If there is any substance to the proposal it will outlast the hammering.


It was a fluff piece to reduce tension which was being stoked by some irresponsible journalism.

which I am sure a senior like yourself on the forum (240 posts to my 100)


No such thing as a "forum senior". Your 100 posts are probably more clearly thought out and better articulated then my usual mischief mongering. Quality of a poster is not a metric of number of posts or his duration on the forum nor even how popular his viewpoint is. Attack mine (or anyone else's viewpoint) as you wish irrespective of weather they are senior, so long as the attacks do not become personal.

If there is anyone you should defer to in this forum they are the moderators. Not because they can ban you, but because they do the thankless service of keeping riff-Raff (like your truly) in check and enforcing a basic level of civil discourse.


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