China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20067 » 20 Jan 2012 22:53

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b4b_1327077154


ha ha chinese military training video

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby gnair » 20 Jan 2012 23:03


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20317 » 21 Jan 2012 00:37

Caveat – Badar, in the following, my quoting from your post is not meant to be confrontational. Certain parts were important because they represented something that is real. What I am writing below is more of a ‘message in the bottle’ kind of post.

badar wrote:ravi_g, ambassadors writing opinion pieces in newspapers is hardly novel or comment worthy.


To my view message in the write up by the “Chinese Special Representative, State Councilor Dai Bingguo” (not the ambassador, more like the ‘shuttle diplomat’ HK telling Indians what his vision for Indo-US relations would be) was reasonably clear and reasonably successful in its scope though not in scale. The scale of the success was not much simply because the size of this country and its diversity is too great to be handled by one such piece. I am sure the Chinese are aware of this limitation of writing in ‘The Hindu’ and arranging for things such that ‘ToI’ lets it be known to a certain type of people about which way the wind blows. Had the Chinese been interested in addressing the whole of India with this message, they would have choosen more then one media and more than one media outlets in more than one language. Something I am damn sure they know how to do. This piece is addressed to Indians who read these particular papers and :

1) are either amenable to ‘Hindi-Chini Bhai-Bhai’

2) for want of a better word, the Jingos.

To the first set it is meant to hold out a carrot, they may or may not be holding a stick in their left hand. But this is actually a very small portion of the total message because people with hope (expectations) are likely to hang on, to something, anything even nothing. They don’t actually need to be addressed for the most part. At least not in this manner. Expectation is enough for most compliances.

The larger part of the message was to the Jingos. The great Dai Bing, the one who is “said to be close to the Chinese President” knows that quite a lot of people in India do get affected by the “irresponsible journalism”, that, as BK pointed, does not act “mature”. Even amongst the Jingos the Vernacular Jingo can be safely left out. After all this message is not even discussed by people reading “Dainik Jagaran” or other such vernacular papers. I wonder if it was even reported by the vernacular press. So message is more for people like Rajrang, mikehurst, ravi_g (hereinafter refered to as the BRhees) and a lot of others like us who are not on BR (hereinafter ‘bhais’). That is why it extracted a response from Ranjrang and mikehurst and thanks to Badar, now from me too. To me it sounded like my opponent telling me “I will payoff your countrymen the consideration they are looking for, the way they are looking for and then I will drown out your proposal of the desh dharma”. It is designed to extract a response of denial &/of impotent rage from the BRhees and the Bhais alike. Why I believe, it has been reasonably successful is not because it extracted any impotent rage form BRhees (Only 3 BRhees have expressed anything against it out of the 150 plus that are usually there on the site on a normal day and hardly any of the expression was impotent). It is successful because it actually got at least one (probably two) fellow BR member to talk about the likely benefits and at the same time it was not thought over (opposite of denial). I am sure the views of such members are also read and shared by at least a few of the reading members and lurkers. I am also not reflexively against these views.
It is rather obvious that the Dai Bing article is actuated by the advice of the Chinese ambassador who threw a fit when queried by and Indian Journalist of the ‘irresponsible’ kind, who in turn was in all probability advised by the ‘responsible elements’ in the media.


badar wrote:It was a fluff piece to reduce tension which was being stoked by some irresponsible journalism.


To me, it looked like, the Journalists in last few months have actually started playing a more engaging role especially since they saw the huge crowds drawn in by Baba Ramdev and Anna Hazare and got convinced that national issues have a real market. It was in this atmosphere that the Chinese shenanigans were reported by the media.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 21 Jan 2012 02:36

I would say that the sudden appearance of a "backbone" in the Indian jellyfish,is actually more of a reflex action of our babudom,who consider themselves the true heirs to the "heaven born" ICS of the Raj era,than any new resolve by the GOI.The current dispensation well knowing how its neglect of the Chinese threat,has left India weak and exposed in the Himalayan regions,ripe for another Chinese "lesson" of the likes of '62.It is extremely fearful that another "lesson" in realpolitik diplomacy
from China,will bury the govt. and the party.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 21 Jan 2012 11:54

To my view message in the write up by the “Chinese Special Representative, State Councilor Dai Bingguo” (not the ambassador, more like the ‘shuttle diplomat’ HK telling Indians what his vision for Indo-US relations would be) was reasonably clear and reasonably successful in its scope though not in scale. The scale of the success was not much simply because the size of this country and its diversity is too great to be handled by one such piece. I am sure the Chinese are aware of this limitation of writing in ‘The Hindu’ and arranging for things such that ‘ToI’ lets it be known to a certain type of people about which way the wind blows. Had the Chinese been interested in addressing the whole of India with this message, they would have choosen more then one media and more than one media outlets in more than one language. Something I am damn sure they know how to do.

ravi_g, Usually when such "opinion leading/forming/disseminating" pieces are published, the are published in one leading "newspaper of record" and left at that. It is sufficient to publish in one major newspaper as the quotes, analysis and straight-forward reports will be echoed and disseminated across the rest. These kind of pieces are treated quite differently than a press release which is shoveled out to everyone over every media.

The larger part of the message was to the Jingos. The great Dai Bing, the one who is “said to be close to the Chinese President” knows that quite a lot of people in India do get affected by the “irresponsible journalism”, that, as BK pointed, does not act “mature”. Even amongst the Jingos the Vernacular Jingo can be safely left out. After all this message is not even discussed by people reading “Dainik Jagaran” or other such vernacular papers. I wonder if it was even reported by the vernacular press. So message is more for people like Rajrang, mikehurst, ravi_g (hereinafter refered to as the BRhees) and a lot of others like us who are not on BR (hereinafter ‘bhais’). That is why it extracted a response from Ranjrang and mikehurst and thanks to Badar, now from me too.

I don't think this was intended for the jingoes or man-on-the-street directly. My reading is that this was directed squarely at the opinion leaders and opinion-manufacturers in India (as is usually the case with such pieces).

What do you make of the fact that the original article is a pure tone piece with no arguments at all?

To me it sounded like my opponent telling me “I will payoff your countrymen the consideration they are looking for, the way they are looking for and then I will drown out your proposal of the desh dharma”. It is designed to extract a response of denial &/of impotent rage from the BRhees and the Bhais alike. Why I believe, it has been reasonably successful is not because it extracted any impotent rage form BRhees (Only 3 BRhees have expressed anything against it out of the 150 plus that are usually there on the site on a normal day and hardly any of the expression was impotent). It is successful because it actually got at least one (probably two) fellow BR member to talk about the likely benefits and at the same time it was not thought over (opposite of denial).

I am lost as to how you came to this conclusion from that piece. I am surely missing some vital ingredient that you saw but for the life of me I can't make out what it is.

To me, it looked like, the Journalists in last few months have actually started playing a more engaging role especially since they saw the huge crowds drawn in by Baba Ramdev and Anna Hazare and got convinced that national issues have a real market. It was in this atmosphere that the Chinese shenanigans were reported by the media.

Anna Hazare caught wind for a while precisely because the issue he was addressing made a personal impact on the vast majority of the citizens. "National issues" are still given short thrift my most Indians (Shooting at the border - meh; Shooting in Bombay - omg! omg! omg!)

The news media made a fuss about the Chinese Shenanigans(?) because it allowed them a fresh cycle of breathless reporting in the shrill Burkha Dutt vein.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20317 » 23 Jan 2012 00:07

Badar wrote:My reading is that this was directed squarely at the opinion leaders and opinion-manufacturers in India (as is usually the case with such pieces)

What do you make of the fact that the original article is a pure tone piece with no arguments at all?


Badar you are focusing on where its printed, how its printed, who are usually addressed by these pieces. I am in fact agreeing that the piece is a weak one with no reasoning...nothing to back it up. Which brings us to a new question. Will the "opinion leaders and opinion-manufacturers in India" even give a thought to such a Pastor's sermon?

Badar wrote:
ravi_g wrote: To me it sounded like my opponent telling me “I will payoff your countrymen the consideration they are looking for, the way they are looking for and then I will drown out your proposal of the desh dharma”. It is designed to extract a response of denial &/of impotent rage from the BRhees and the Bhais alike. Why I believe, it has been reasonably successful is not because it extracted any impotent rage form BRhees (Only 3 BRhees have expressed anything against it out of the 150 plus that are usually there on the site on a normal day and hardly any of the expression was impotent). It is successful because it actually got at least one (probably two) fellow BR member to talk about the likely benefits and at the same time it was not thought over (opposite of denial).


I am lost as to how you came to this conclusion from that piece. I am surely missing some vital ingredient that you saw but for the life of me I can't make out what it is.


My comment was in view of the context that I am dead sure is entirely within your grasp, where the gap between what is said and what is done is such that it makes the whole excercise of addressing such pieces to "opinion leaders and opinion-manufacturers in India", meaningless.

Here is what Brahma Chellaney an acknowledged "opinion leaders and opinion-manufacturers in India" says in response to the same message when delivered from a different mouth.


“Manmohan Singh's emphatic statement in the Lok Sabha last month that "China will not attack India" thus seems more than gratuitous. Disturbingly, the more timorous Singh has been, the more belligerent China has become.”
But the context here is not Indian gratuity and Chinese extortionism, which is what everybody already sees. The context was “The deception began much earlier, in keeping with its perceived utility in both peacetime and wartime. One example was Premier Zhou En-lai's 1960 New Delhi visit, during which he dangled the carrot of a border settlement without putting his money where his mouth was.”
Badar I hope you are not discounting the existence of the POV that places the stick in the right hand instead of the left.


Also lets leave this at that, the piece doesnt deserve it and we run the risk of falling into arguments about chickens and eggs.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Badar » 23 Jan 2012 00:48

Also lets leave this at that, the piece doesnt deserve it

ravi_g, I agree. The only interesting point is that the piece was written at all, and what it signals.

I would just say that my own perception of the situation is more attuned with that of the PM than with BC.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 24 Jan 2012 08:22

Chinese soldiers play with explosives

1. Wear dhoti
2. Click link for video.
3. Observe dhoti shivering

The Chinese government has released footage of soldiers playing explosive pass-the-parcel during a training exercise in Hong Kong.

The video of the deadly drill shows the six men counting down as they hand a smoking package to each other before the last one throws the satchel in a hole and they all dive for cover.

The resulting explosions send a blast of earth several meters high.

The exhibition drill was held last month when Hong Kong's chief executive Sir Donald Tsang inspected the troops, but footage has only just been released and shown on Chinese Central Television (CCTV), British newspaper the Telegraph reports.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers were also shown carrying heavy logs, leaping through rings of fire and riding motorcycles at high speed.

The PLA said the "near impossible" tasks were designed to improve "psychological strength" and to forge "fighting spirit".

There are 6,000 PLA troops based an elite garrison in San Wai, a district of Hong Kong that borders the mainland.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 24 Jan 2012 08:31

PratikDas wrote:Chinese soldiers play with explosives

1. Wear dhoti
2. Click link for video.
3. Observe dhoti shivering


:D Thanks for posting!!

This is as fake as it gets. Propagandu.

The most fake thing about the video is the "smoking parcel". Someone plunges the detonator of a pre-positioned explosive as soon as the circle of men hit the ground. And that is only explosion 1

Watch the second one closely. The man on the extreme left passes the parcel and when he gets it back he drops it near his own feet. The men jump and there is a puny explosion just before the clip is cut off - totally unlike the faked big explosion earlier. And the second puny explosion occurs in a different place wfrom where the smoking parcel falls. :D

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 24 Jan 2012 09:19

Spot on, Shiv ji, regarding the 2nd parcel falling near the soldier's feet.

Also, they won't have portable holes at their convenience in a real battlefield, so if they'd have to grab the explosive and lob it back then they might as well practice that as opposed to banging it down into their own bunker :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Christopher Sidor » 27 Jan 2012 15:58

Floating-Casino Bid Turned Into China’s Biggest Aircraft Carrier Purchase ---- Bloomberg Dated 26-Jan-2012

A compendium of events detailing how the ex-soviet aircraft carrier got converted into China's First Carrier. Some of the notable points are highlighted in bold below
Chairman Mao Zedong proposed the construction of oceangoing fleets of merchant ships escorted by carriers himself in 1958, according to a 2010 article in the Naval War College Review.
Mao’s idea died for lack of funding, as did a plan in the 1970s to acquire a late-model carrier from Britain.
...
...
In 1982 Beijing bought the 15,000 ton Majestic-class carrier Melbourne from Australia, which was dismantled for study and then scrapped. In 1998, the Russians sold China the much larger carrier Minsk, and, two years later, one called the Kiev. After undergoing similar scrutiny by Chinese ship designers, the Minsk and Kiev were turned into floating amusement parks.

So both the west and Russia supplied Chinese with aircraft carriers, which China studied and discarded.

Western governments pressured Turkey to deny Cheng permission to pull his unequipped warship through the Bosphorus Strait.

Which were these so called western government[s] ?

Taiwan concluded otherwise. Not long after the boat docked in Dalian, workers began painting it a naval gray. “Then we saw the truth,” says Taiwan’s Professor Lin, the former defense official. “This was China’s first aircraft carrier.”
....
....
Beijing rechristened the ship the Shi Lang, after a 17th century Chinese admiral who served the Ming and Qing dynasties. The symbolism could not have been lost on historically minded government officials in Taipei. In 1683, Admiral Shi led a force of 300 ships in the amphibious conquest of Taiwan.
....
....
The Taiwanese fear that Beijing harbors plans to emulate the invasion-inclined Admiral Shi Lang.
....
....
“Based on the feedback we received from our partners and allies in the Pacific,” he(Admiral Robert Willard, the top U.S. military commander in the Asia-Pacific region) testified, “I think the change in perception by the region will be significant.
....
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In a military conference in Bahrain where Chinese naval officers made a presentation about their activities in the Somali Basin and the Gulf of Aden. The Chinese, Wells says, openly lobbied for expanded antipirate responsibilities.
....
The Pentagon, in its 2011 Annual Report to Congress on Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China, speculated that the building of Beijing’s first indigenous carrier may have begun last year. “If China commence[d] construction in 2011,” the report said, “the PLA Navy could have its first indigenous carrier achieving operational capacity as early as 2015.”


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 30 Jan 2012 21:15


The PLAN have been expanding significantly the last couple of Years with 6 052C destroyers in service or launched and type 52D to follow. The 54A type frigates with about 13-14 in service or launched and more building. They can really build fast.

Image
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby nash » 30 Jan 2012 22:29

^^^^^^

well they have to do that to get rid of the luda class and jianghu class junk 8)

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby koti » 01 Feb 2012 12:20

US sees what our Babudom fails to see!!!
Link

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 04 Feb 2012 00:20

Air Marshal dismisses US report on India-China "limited" war

A top Indian military officer on Friday dismissed a US intelligence assessment that the Indian Army is strengthening itself for a "limited conflict" with China, asserting the country's armed forces are more of deterrence to rivals.

"The US intelligence publishes reports specially pertaining to other countries ... our strong armed forces are more of deterrence to enemies eyeing our territories," Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Headquarters Training Command, Air Marshal Dhiraj Kukreja told reporters in the southern Indian state of Karnataka.

India does not have any territorial aspirations and is a peaceful country, Kukreja said, adding, "to maintain peace, the country needs to have strong armed forces."

Director of US National Intelligence James Clapper had early this week said, "The Indian Army believes a major Sino-Indian conflict is not imminent, but the Indian military is strengthening its forces in preparation to fight a limited conflict along the disputed border, and is working to balance Chinese power projection in the Indian Ocean."

India is looking at peaceful interaction with nations in the wake of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh saying Indian strategic interests have extended up to countries like Vietnam, Kukreja said.

Asked if the US was having any motive behind predicting limited India-China conflict, he said "I can't say there is any motive ... Every country has self-interest and it works accordingly."

To a query if Chinese acquisitions were a cause of worry for India, Kukreja claimed, "Chinese technology is not sound compared to India's."

"Of whatever I have seen in the market ... Chinese toys break within two months ... a DVD and a camera lasts for one month ... Whatever we are acquiring and developing is far better than the Chinese ...," Kukreja said.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tejas » 04 Feb 2012 00:31

Of whatever I have seen in the market ... Chinese toys break within two months ... a DVD and a camera lasts for one month ... Whatever we are acquiring and developing is far better than the Chinese ...," Kukreja said.


:eek: :mrgreen: :eek: :mrgreen:

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Selamat Pagi » 04 Feb 2012 23:28

PratikDas wrote:Spot on, Shiv ji, regarding the 2nd parcel falling near the soldier's feet.

Also, they won't have portable holes at their convenience in a real battlefield, so if they'd have to grab the explosive and lob it back then they might as well practice that as opposed to banging it down into their own bunker :lol:


:shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KekionbG8

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohankumaon » 05 Feb 2012 00:16

Deleted
Last edited by rohankumaon on 05 Feb 2012 00:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Christopher Sidor » 05 Feb 2012 00:26

China’s Space White Paper: Increasing Transparency…to a Degree --- Jamestown foundation

From the article
China nearly tripled the number of successful launches during the 2006-2010 time period from 24 to 67 with two failures. The success rate for the Long March series of launchers is now over 94 percent—well within international standards for space launch vehicles. The year 2010 was a milestone year in which China for the first time tied the United States in the number of launches with 15 and, in 2011, China surpassed the United States with 18 launches. During the 12th Five-Year Plan, China plans to maintain this pace with the launch of 100 satellites on 100 rockets (Global Times, January 20).

So China is planning to do some 20 launches in a year. Not bad.

China also plans to develop three new types of Long March rockets—the Long March-5, -6 and -7—which eventually will replace the current series of Long March launchers. As a group, these launch vehicles will be able to launch heavier payloads into orbit to support China’s space station and lunar exploration programs and provide a more responsive launch capacity.
....
....
Less prominent, but more important were China’s launches of remote sensing satellites. From 2006-2010, China launched a total of 19 remote sensing satellites, including optical imaging, synthetic aperture radar, electronic intelligence satellites, stereoscopic mapping, meteorological and ocean monitoring satellites. China’s efforts at space-based remote sensing point to the national security aspects of China’s space program and its desire to form a C4ISR system to support anti-access and area denial missions against potential adversaries. Indeed, the white paper states, during the next four years, China will establish a “stable all-weather, 24-hour, multi-spectral, various-resolution Earth observation system”

No prizes for guessing which countries, especially in South Asia, will tie up with China for these space-based remote sensing capabilities.

A third notable achievement was the establishment of a regional satellite navigation and positioning system. In December 2011, the ten satellites of the Beidou navigation system began initial operational service in and around China. This service will be expanded in 2012 with the launch of six more satellites (Global Times, December 28, 2011). Beidou provides positioning signals with an accuracy of 10 meters, much less than the several meter accuracy of the U.S. Global Positioning System

So we dont have our own GPS system. We are dependent on US. US has shut GPS signals before, which has led to test of our missiles failing. In war time, US may even shut down the GPS system leading to severe loss of operational capabilities.

The white paper’s discussion of the Beidou satellite navigation system, for example, states Beidou “has been used in transportation, sea fishing, hydrological monitoring, communications and timing service, power dispatching and disaster reduction and relief,” but neglects any mention of military use. Military press, however, states Beidou will increase the PLA’s operational capabilities by 100-1000 times and improve its cost effectiveness by 10-50 times (PLA Daily, December 27, 2011).

Not bad. 10-50 times, huh.

For those of us interested, this is full text of China's Space Activities in 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Christopher Sidor » 05 Feb 2012 00:42

rohankumaon wrote:A very interesting on "China's Role In JSF's Spiraling Costs"

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... annel=awst


Can you please cross post this article to the forum JSF,"turkey or talisman"?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohankumaon » 05 Feb 2012 00:49

Yeah sure...

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 05 Feb 2012 13:19

>> So we dont have our own GPS system. We are dependent on US. US has shut GPS signals before, which has led to test of our missiles failing. In war time, US may even shut down the GPS system leading to severe loss of operational capabilities.

the glonass system is now complete for worldwide 24x7 cover and we have signed a deal to get access..we are paying for it. but its anyone's guess if nav systems and munitions on our existing stuff will work with glonass or some new kit is needed. someone was saying we'd need about 10 sats in a couple of orbital planes N-S to cover south asia and china for desi system...imo its better we get that done and locked in rather than rely on glonass alone.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 726888.ece

MOSCOW, December 19, 2011
India strikes deal with Russia on Glonass

SANDEEP DIKSHIT

Now, it can get precision signals from Russian constellation of satellites

A day before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh arrived here last weekend for his annual summit with the Russian leadership, an Indian defence team of scientists and defence brass returned to Delhi after inking an agreement for receiving precision signals from Glonass, Russian constellation of satellites.

These signals will allow missiles, including those fired from nuclear submarine Chakra, to strike within half a metre of distant targets.

Glonass is an alternative to the U.S.-controlled Global Positioning System (GPS). .

Indian military's access to Glonass has been considered important enough to find a mention in half-a-dozen joint statements issued after India-Russian annual summits.

As has been the case earlier, the issue lay in an indeterminate state for long time after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh discussed it with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev during their meeting in Delhi last year.

When bureaucracies from both sides began drawing up a status report on the progress in decisions taken last year, the Russian side found that no movement had taken place despite a Presidential Decree in this regard.

MENON'S INITIATIVE

National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon took up the matter before this year's annual meeting between the two leaders and ensured that talks took place in earnest.

“The Russians, for a cost, have agreed to give us precision signals … we will be able to use weapons in a better manner,” said Indian official sources.

The Indian security establishment had set its sights on Glonass after it conducted a post-mortem of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. It found that the U.S. had blocked GPS signals to Iraq and then inserted erroneous signals that left Saddam's generals virtually blind as far as beyond visual range and sighting and targeting was concerned.

“We found that the Iraqi Army got misled and weapons went awry,” said the sources.

The issue of ensuring autonomy and choice in strategic communications found expression in the former Army Chief and Director-General of Military Intelligence, General S. Padmanabhan's post-retirement book The writing on the wall – India Checkmates America 2017.

The General foresaw a situation, which has also been a subject of drawing board war games, in which the U.S. attacked India over Kashmir. Such a scenario is plausible, he said, because of the “propensity of the U.S. to act unilaterally against other countries in disregard of the United Nations.” He advocated need for India to be prepared to meet “aggression by any developed country, including the U.S.A.”

STRATEGIC AUTONOMY

Glonass is still in the making and a pact on the civilian side is still to be arrived at. But India's quest for strategic autonomy in advanced technology would be served with the pact on precision signals from Glonass, said the sources.

Keywords: India-Russia defence ties

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 05 Feb 2012 14:53

Selamat Pagi wrote:
PratikDas wrote:Spot on, Shiv ji, regarding the 2nd parcel falling near the soldier's feet.

Also, they won't have portable holes at their convenience in a real battlefield, so if they'd have to grab the explosive and lob it back then they might as well practice that as opposed to banging it down into their own bunker :lol:


:shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KekionbG8



In both cases of bomb in hole the "officer" with gun raises his hand after which the explosion occurs. That burning fuse has a small built in eye which is watching the officer and it explodes when he raises his armLOL

But seriously, if you throw a bomb into a flat pit the explosion will billow to all sides and appear as a cloud of smoke and debris from all sides of the rectangular pit. In this case there is a jet of sand going straight up. This is as fake as it gets.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 05 Feb 2012 18:08

Good news! Chinese subs are even louder than previously thought.The bad news is that the PLAN operates more than 60 subs (with about 80+expected by 2020),but that more frequent operations by Chinese subs have resulted in a reassessment of the noise factor in comparison with Russian subs and modern US subs.

Louder than Russian boats "20 years" old!.Barring the Russian Kilos that it has,from this report,the PLAN's subs are easy meat even in the "1st convergence zone,a ring approximately 25 miles from an undersea vessel where outward-traveling sound waves pack close together."

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12 ... ubmarines/

China’s Noisy Subs Get Busier — And Easier to Trace
By David Axe
December 27, 2011 |

As recently as 2007, China’s diesel-powered subs and a handful of nuclear-propelled models managed just a few patrols per year, combined. Two years before that, none of Beijing’s undersea boats went on patrol. For years, the majority of PLAN submarines remained tied up at naval bases, sidelined by mechanical problems and a shortage of adequately trained crews.

As long as the PLAN’s submarines were idle, the U.S. Navy’s spy planes, surveillance ships and snooping subs had few opportunities to assess China’s undersea capabilities — and, most importantly, how much noise the Chinese generate while submerged and moving. Navies can use passive sonars to track submarines by the sounds they make. The louder a vessel, the easier it is to detect. And destroy.

With little information to go on, American intelligence officials had to guess. In cases like that, “you guess conservatively,” a respected U.S.-based naval analyst tells Danger Room on the condition of anonymity. The conservative estimates placed the latest PLAN subs roughly a decade behind the state-of-art for Russian submarines — and potentially 20 years behind U.S. undersea technology.

Now Chinese subs are patrolling more frequently. “Within the last year or two the Chinese have begun to deploy diesel boats more frequently into places like the Philippine Sea,” the analyst reveals. More and better data is flowing in from U.S. forces. With that data, the Navy conducted a fresh assessment of PLAN submarines. The unnamed analyst attended a classified briefing based on the assessment.


During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy would arrange its own submarines in lines where each boat was 25 miles from the next, forming a sort of net to catch Soviet subs. With the introduction of the latest generation of quiet Russian diesel subs in the 1990s, the Americans thought that convergence-zone detection was no longer possible. But the Navy’s just discovered that China’s homemade subs are even louder than 20-year-old Russian boats. “Apparently they [U.S. subs] are making first convergence zone detections and holding them,” the analyst reports.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ShauryaT » 05 Feb 2012 18:46

Singha wrote:someone was saying we'd need about 10 sats in a couple of orbital planes N-S to cover south asia and china for desi system...imo its better we get that done and locked in rather than rely on glonass alone.
We plan to in response to Beidou and also as a response to a glitch in one of the missiles due to GPS failures. The issue is there is no unity of command over space assets. We need to get our act together in these and other areas such as cyber warfare.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby silod » 06 Feb 2012 23:18

And please also not forget that Chinese must have laid their hands on Stealth Blackhawk as well, the chopper that went down during Abottabad raid on OBL's compound. They can very well learn a lot of things from the remains and come up with their own Stealth helly.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby wig » 12 Feb 2012 09:50

China develops submarine-launched long-range N-missile(8000 kms) - and the chinese navy seems to have fired a salvo of half a dozen missile on 30 dec 2011 from a Jin class submarine


The Dragon is flexing its military muscle yet again. China, it seems, is on the way to add a potent weapon to its sea-based nuclear arsenal, which will mount pressure on India — an emerging dominant player in the Indian Ocean region. Beijing has, for the first time, tested an 8,000-km range submarine launched nuclear-tipped missile, Julang-2. In military parlance, it is known as submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM).
In stark contrast, India, as of now, does not even have a submarine in its fleet that can launch an SLBM, leave aside a missile with that kind of a range. Such missiles are considered as the best option to retaliate in case a country faces a nuclear strike. Indian security agencies have informed the government that China carried out the missile test six weeks ago — December 30, 2011. A set of six missiles were fired from the Jin class nuclear- powered submarines.

These 8,000-tonne submarines can stay submerged under water for longer periods avoiding detection. The test is said to have been conducted in the Gulf of Bohai - located just east of Beijing. The Chinese Jin class submarines can carry as many as 12 missiles. The Julang-2, designed by China Aerospace Science and Industry, is a derivative of China’s land-based intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), the Dong Feng 31 (DF-31) that can cover a distance of 10,000 km.

Sources within the security set-up said this adds a new dimension to China’s attack ability. So far it was known that China had the capacity to launch a 3,000- km range SLBM, the extended range means a remotely sitting submarine could pose a risk.

The Indian Navy is still to get a sophisticated missile like this. New Delhi has successfully tested the 3,500- km range SLBM, codenamed K-4. It is to be part of the arsenal of the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine, INS Arihant, which is expected to join the fleet by year end. A pressurised canister submerged under water was used to mimic a submarine-style launch. Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma has already declared that the Arihant, when ready, would be on ‘deterrent patrol’. It is meant to 'deter' an adversary from launching a first N-strike on the nation as the submarines can then launch the retaliatory strike within minutes from remote locations.

INS Chakra, an Akula class nuclear-powered submarine leased from Russia, is set to join the fleet in the coming weeks. However, the Russian submarine does not have any long-range SLBM as part of its arsenal. However, India’s ballistic missile defence shield project is moving on a fast track. Two days ago, the DRDO conducted a successful launch of an interceptor missile. It hit an incoming ballistic missile and destroyed it at a height of 15 km off the Coast of Orissa.


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120212/main3.htm

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 12 Feb 2012 10:12

wig wrote:China develops submarine-launched long-range N-missile(8000 kms) - and the chinese navy seems to have fired a salvo of half a dozen missile on 30 dec 2011 from a Jin class submarine


The Julang-2, designed by China Aerospace Science and Industry, is a derivative of China’s land-based intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), the Dong Feng 31 (DF-31) that can cover a distance of 10,000 km.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120212/main3.htm

Its a derivative of either DF-31A or DF-31. DF-31A has a range of 11000-12000 KM with 3 150KT Marv warheads or a 1 Megaton warhead. DF-31 has a range of 8000 KM with similar payload.
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Last edited by Don on 13 Feb 2012 05:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 12 Feb 2012 21:50

Don, we don't see the image.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 13 Feb 2012 05:44

PratikDas wrote:Don, we don't see the image.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2012 10:15

afaik the prior Xia class boats had to surface to fire the JL-1..rendering it quite risky in day or when the area had enemy LRMP assets present. the Jin class and JL-2 represents the PLANs first 'proper' SLBM and submerged launch platform combo.

imo given the shallowness of the waters around china, they might decide to keep the current Jin size for nimbleness and just improve the internals while retaining the 12 tube layout. future SLBMs might get smaller and lighter as tech advances.

on our part, a 8-12 tube layout is again a ideal balance between salvo size and number of independent boats. not good to keep too many precious eggs in same basket unless you have a lot of baskets.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 13 Feb 2012 20:03

Singha wrote:afaik the prior Xia class boats had to surface to fire the JL-1..rendering it quite risky in day or when the area had enemy LRMP assets present. the Jin class and JL-2 represents the PLANs first 'proper' SLBM and submerged launch platform combo.

imo given the shallowness of the waters around china, they might decide to keep the current Jin size for nimbleness and just improve the internals while retaining the 12 tube layout. future SLBMs might get smaller and lighter as tech advances.

on our part, a 8-12 tube layout is again a ideal balance between salvo size and number of independent boats. not good to keep too many precious eggs in same basket unless you have a lot of baskets.


The Xia class does not have to surface to fire JL-1. However, the missile itself is pretty short range with only 1700 KM which make it pretty much useless against even most regional adversaries.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 14 Feb 2012 19:59

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46374393

Chinese Defense Budget Set to Double by 2015

Published: Monday, 13 Feb 2012 | 6:31 PM ET Text Size By: Carola Hoyos in London and Kathrin Hille in Beijing Twitter

China’s defense budget is expected to almost double by 2015 as Beijing accelerates its spending on fighter jets and other military equipment, according to defense forecasts.

The country’s official military spending has increased at a double-digit rate for all but one of the past 23 years. This has raised concerns about its ambitions among its Asian neighbors and the U.S., especially because China’s official numbers are generally viewed as underplaying the full extent of its military spending. China is expected to unveil another double-digit increase when it releases its defense budget for 2012 in the coming weeks.

Beijing has always justified increases by arguing they are in line with the pace of its economic growth.

But in a forecast due to be released this week, analysts at IHS Jane’s Defence said they expected China’s defense spending to accelerate substantially in the next three years, testing the argument that the defense budget was linked to growth.

IHS Jane’s analysts said they believe China will spend $120 billion on defense this year and that will grow to $238 billion in 2015 — a combined annual increase of 18.75 percent and more than the joint total of Nato’s top eight members, bar the U.S.. China’s economy grew at an annual rate of 9.2 percent in 2011.

Such an increase would see defense spending rise to 2.18 percent of China’s gross domestic product by 2015, from 1.51 percent in 2011, according to IHS Jane’s.

Beijing puts its 2011 defense budget at $91.5 billion. Like most analysts and the U.S. defense department, IHS Jane’s believe official figures understate actual defense spending.

Paul Burton, an IHS Jane’s analyst, said increased investment in several large Chinese equipment programs, including the development of jet fighters such as the Chengdu J-10B, were helping to drive the anticipated increase in spending. “Rapid growth in this sector is supported by huge investments in resources,” he said.

Beijing continues to improve its space capabilities, having launched the Shenzhou-8 unmanned spacecraft last November and docking it with the Tiangong-1 space laboratory, said Mr Burton.

IHS Jane’s forecasts global military spending, using analysis of equipment programs, economic growth, inflation, and official data to compile its results.

When the pace of military spending growth rebounded to 12.7 percent last year, Major General Peng Guangqian, a military analyst in Beijing, said a single-digit rate in 2010 had occurred in response to slower GDP growth in 2009, following the global economic crisis. The higher growth expected in 2011 reflected a return to faster GDP growth. “China’s military budget is co-ordinated with economic growth,” he said.

Kerry Brown, head of the Asia program at Chatham House, said the IHS Jane’s forecast appeared reasonable. “When you think of the reach China has got and the resources, it is not surprising. Why wouldn’t it desire to have such military kit?”

Other analysts raised questions about whether China was ready to increase its spending on defense as aggressively as forecasts anticipated. “For quite a long time, their military expenditure has tracked the trend of economic growth. That appears to be a pretty consistent policy,” said Sam Perlo-Freeman, a military expenditure expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

There is no doubt, however, that China’s increasing defense budget is fuelling growth in other Asian countries.

Asia has more defense budgets that are growing faster than 8 percent annually than any region in the world, including the rapidly expanding Middle East, said IHS Jane’s.

Vietnam, which has turned to Russia for a string of military procurement packages, will see combined annual growth of almost 9 percent in the coming years, boosting its defense budget to 2.5 percent of GDP by 2015.

India is expecting to see growth of 6.14 percent, having this month chosen France’s Rafale jet fighter as its preferred bidder for a $20 billion contract of 126 jet fighters.

China’s spending is beginning to close the gap with the U.S., which until recently had accounted for almost 50 percent of the world’s defense spending. In the coming years, IHS Jane’s expects the US military budget to shrink, but remain three times as large as that of China in 2015.
Last edited by Don on 14 Feb 2012 20:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 14 Feb 2012 20:03

http://news.yahoo.com/china-defence-bud ... 38765.html

China defence budget to double over 5 years: IHS

China's defence budget will double between 2011 and 2015 and outstrip the combined spending of all other key defence markets in the Asia-Pacific region, global research group IHS said on Tuesday.

China's defence budget stood at $119.8 billion last year and will rise to $238.2 billion in 2015, marking a combined annual growth rate of 18.75 percent during the period, the US-based IHS said in a forecast.

The 2015 figure exceeds the combined total of the next 12 biggest defence budgets in the region, forecast to hit $232.5 billion, and will be almost four times second-placer Japan's defence spending that year, it added.

"Beijing has been able to devote an increasingly large portion of its overall budget towards defence and has been steadily building up its military capabilities for more than two decades," said Rajiv Biswas, Asia-Pacific chief economist for IHS Global Insight.

"This will continue unless there is an economic catastrophe."

The growth in China's defence budget -- which averaged 12 percent annually from 2000-2009 -- will benefit from the projected surge in the gross domestic product of Asia's largest economy in the next three years.

China will use the additional cash to modernise its equipment while reducing its manpower, resulting in a higher amount of funding per member of its armed forces, IHS said in its report.

Aside from China and Japan, the report also tracks the military spending of India, South Korea, Australia, Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Pakistan, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam and New Zealand.

The US government's "renewed Asia-Pacific focus" is helping fuel China's expansion of its defence budget, according IHS Global Insight's Asia-Pacific head Sarah McDowall.

"China's expanding defence budget has intensified concern among various governments. Perhaps most importantly, it has prompted Washington to undertake a diplomatic campaign to reassert its profile in the Pacific," she said.

"Washington is also keen to ensure freedom of navigation through important sea lanes in the region and to maintain a situational awareness of China's military development," McDowall added.

President Barack Obama, while seeking to trim military spending in response to budget pressures, has vowed to boost US power in Asia where a number of nations have voiced concern at what they see as a more assertive China.

This concern will also drive other Asia-Pacific countries to shore up their budgets but it will not be their sole impetus, said Paul Burton, senior principal analyst of IHS Jane's Defence Budgets.

"China's rise is not the only motivator. There are a number of lingering security issues, driven by competition for untapped natural resources, that are prompting many states to increase their defence to GDP ratio," he said.

Vietnam and Indonesia in particular are expected to increase defence spending at a rate that exceeds their GDP growth, Burton added.

But the two countries' defence budgets will not be able to match up to the resources of their smaller but wealthier Southeast Asian neighbour Singapore, which will spend $12.3 billion on defence in 2015, IHS predicted.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Don » 18 Feb 2012 17:49

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 18 Feb 2012 17:54

china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby jamwal » 18 Feb 2012 20:04

PratikDas wrote:Spot on, Shiv ji, regarding the 2nd parcel falling near the soldier's feet.

Also, they won't have portable holes at their convenience in a real battlefield, so if they'd have to grab the explosive and lob it back then they might as well practice that as opposed to banging it down into their own bunker :lol:


Is that drill supposed to increase mental toughness or what ?
Which gun is that and why is that officer firing in air just like in a Paki wedding ? Isn't that dangerous, even in a firing range ? Some buildings are seem like they are only less than 100m away from where they are shooting.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby krisna » 18 Feb 2012 20:32

Singha wrote:china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.


except in china daily dated 2009, there is no news about it. also searched china daily under search, returned 0 results.
went thru chacha. :?:
All the results show the xining- llhasa route which is the only link.


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