China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_23785 » 05 Aug 2013 15:03

^^ Aren't these signs of something nasty coming up?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 05 Aug 2013 21:23

Headlines Today is currently telecasting a special wargame report saying that the Chinese will attack us in 2014.Watch it or if it is repeated.A very serious debate.The final conclusion is that because we have such a poor infrastructure on our side as compared to the Chinese,only the use of air power can save the situ for us and inflict enough damage upon the Chinese to terminate the conflict. The IAF must take out key bridges,roads,etc.,with precision attacks on the Chines side to mess up their logistics,as it is a long,long,way to Tibet from Beijing.

I predict that the attack might come in even before 2014,just as we are totally immersed in our own "election wars" within the country,which will also see a massive increase of simultaneous Naxal/Maoist attacks and perhaps even more so-called IM/ISI terror attacks too.Thus,India will be beset with massive internal and external crises.

What former senior air marshal/generals are saying is that we need to develop more airfields and helipads ,as many of us have been saying on BR for a long time.If the Congress/GOI to not want to be remembered infamously in history as the successors to another "Nehruvian" defeat,we have to prepare for a war ,on a war footing right now.It is incumbent upon the service chiefs,retd. senior service officers,diplomats and intel agencies to together warn the current regime about the dangerous situ that will develop and to take urgent immediate measures in ordering essential eqpt. like artillery,etc.,build up war stocks of ammo,missiles,etc.,and move as much mil.eqpt. early enough to the front before the balloon goes up.

PS:Going through the entire debate again,a few points have to be understood.Firstly,that the politico-military establishment should work out their strategy holistically,then go into the tactics of winning a land-air war in the Himalayas,etc.Force editor PS said that the PRC by their agrro and intrusions had already achieved most of their aims,by constant intruding without any Indian resistance,the goal being the finalisation of the border issue on their terms.But why this Ladakh ganbit by the PRC?

From available info and Chinese plans ,the PRC plans to outflank the "Malacca Straits" by construction of a massive road/rail link to Pak,through POK,right upto Gwadar with huge tunnels,etc.It will then be able to maintain a supply link through Pak/POK bypassing the maritime chokepoint of the MStraiits.A similar link is being established with Burma,where from Burmese ports,energy supplies will be piped to China's southern provinces.So there has to be no military threat to their advances and mil. buildup in POK.India has to be pushed back as they say that in Ladakh,there is no border between us merely an LAC.The greatest Chinese mil. threat is perhaps to the reopened airstrip at DBO,which appears India.What our analysts have also not factored in is if the PLA launch massive missile attacks against Indian air bases before/once the IAF gets into the air.The destruction of all 8 PLAAF air bases must be a key objective of the IAF in order to achieve total air dominance over the Tibetan battlespace.For this we also need to have suficcient numbers of tactical missiles moved closer to the border and operationalised.

Secondly,the PRC is however most vulnerable in the naval arena,and none of the participants touched upon this aspect except the former diplomat,who said that the IN could "also wargame".If the intention of the PRC to teach the weakest Asian state (politically) a lesson that would filter down to the rest,the IN has the best opportunity of teaching a massive stinging lesson to the PRC by sinking/capturing its merchantmen,tankers and anti-piracy naval flotilla in the IOR/Gulf,where our overwhelming superiority both on the seas and from LRMP aircraft strikes,would leave dozens of blazing dots on the map all the way from the Gulf to Malacca and beyond.The IN should also begin permanent sub patrols in the Indo-China Sea,with logistic help from Vietnamese ports.Vietnam is also acquiring Kilo subs which will make it easier for sub support.

Thirdly,and this is a real killer blow,right into the PRC's essentials,is to cut off diplomatic relations with them and recognise Taiwan.It will undermine China's claim to be the overlord of Asia and other Asian nations,also threatened militarily by China may follow suit .sadly, the Chinese apologists in the establishment think that engaging economically and diplomatically with China will be enough to avoid a war with them,not realising that our pathetic political appeasement of China has encouraged them to keep on advancing into India.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 06 Aug 2013 00:27

Not sure if this is what you are talking about. But nowhere does anyone say 2014, although it should be a good window. Nothing new here tho' in this 13 part series of 3:30 min each.

Can India thwart Chinese attack?

Although the bias is clear to be seen:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/indian-army-unfit-for-war-with-china/1/158124.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ashish raval » 06 Aug 2013 01:27

Seems time has come up for testing precision weapon mounted miniaturised nuke in Ladakh then. If anyone in India is working on it !

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 06 Aug 2013 01:42

I am sure there are some within the Chinese establishment that are itching to start something.

However, this time around, despite the differential between the two sides, the equation is very different. The IAF will be involved and that by itself will need a good deal of thought. Besides, India cannot afford a loss, but either a win or a draw is OK. China needs a win and not a small win. That is asking a lot, even with the disparity.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 06 Aug 2013 08:09

The wargaming scenarios have April 2014 as a likely time for the balloon to go up,when we are in the throes of our own electoral battles.It is going to take at least 3 years before the infrastructure and modernisation plans for the services mature.The window of opportunity for the PLA is now,when politically we Have the weakest ever govt. since Independence.As AM (retd) Ahluwalia said,even in '62 there was a political will to fight the Chinese,but sadly the inexplicable non-use of the IAF who had the overwhelming advantage of 13 sqds to just 2 of the Chinese.Ex-diplomat MKB asked ,why would the PRC would risk its reputation in Asia as an economic giant and peaceful tag,if it went to war with India? He however said that the services should keep on wargaming,including the IN,and prepare for any eventuality.PS of the "F" mag said that the situ had changed today ,but that India always fought in the future using "last war" methods.Apart from land,air and sea dimensions,space and cyberspace were with us today.The overwhelming Chinese inventory of ballistic and cruise missiles was another worry.

The wargaming was based upon the PRC claiming fake incidents to be Indian aggro. as the excuse for the need to "teach us a lesson".Remember the "Venlo" incident in WW2? The Nazis used the capture of two Brit. spies claiming they were part of the failed assassination plot against top Nazi leaders as an excuse for invading the Netherlands.Here we also have to win the propaganda war-as important as winning the actual war.This factor was not mentioned by the panel.The GOI?MEA should start alerting foreign embassies to the aggressive PRC moves ,briefing them with detailed info. so that a pro-Indian attitude exists if and when the balloon goes up.What all panellists agreed upon was the Chinese relentless planning in the short,med. and long term,to achieve their goals and their meticulous build up,using the period of peace after Sum.Chu,to build the railway to Tibet,where today 8 trains daily arrive from Beijing!

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohitvats » 06 Aug 2013 09:36

^^^If what they showed on the TV was all there to the war-game, than it was a pretty stupid one.

PLA 12th Armored Division attacking India? And only 100 Ladakh Scout troops defending against this monster? And Indian arse saved because of IAF?

Well, where did the 12th PLA Armored Division arrive from? Its not on the Tibetan Plateau. And did the PLA launch assault only with 12th Armored Division? Would not at least an entire Group Army be involved?

Either the War-Game is too simplistic or the channel showed a very-very abridged version. And the channel version seemed pretty stupid and juvenile to me.

See the map of PLA formations here: http://tandemwarhead.blogspot.in/2013/05/distribution-of-pla-and-connectivity-1.html

A write on spatial distribution of PLA and connectivity through various road and rail networks:

http://tandemwarhead.blogspot.in/2013/05/distribution-of-pla-and-connectivity-1.html

12th Armored Division is located bloody far off from Ladakh theater (see number 06 on the map).

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 06 Aug 2013 10:30

As I understand it,the wargaming exercise was not shown.The results of the exercise-how to deal with a Chinese surprise attack where we are weakest,was debated.

Copyright prevents me from posting this in full,so please read this most interesting report on how the Chinese have organised their Indo-China Sea (what they call the "South China Sea") patrols to further their interests in grabbing vast territory in this maritime region,which China claims,just off the coast of many of the littoral states .

Pl. read the report in full in the link.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news ... -china-sea

Chinese navy launches new patrol route in the S. China Sea

After fortifying its naval outposts in the South China Sea, China has established a maritime surveillance patrol route that covers practically all disputed reefs, shoals and islets in the sea, even those within 85 nautical miles of the Philippines' westernmost island province of Palawan, a classified military report seen Monday by Kyodo News says.

he report says China's People's Liberation Army Navy's South Sea Fleet established the new patrol pattern this year, resulting in several incursions that have heightened tensions in the region.

The route sweeps through contested islands, reefs and shoals within China's "nine-dash line" claim to most, if not all, of the South China Sea.

"All other reefs, shoals and islands, including Second Thomas Shoal, Reed Bank and Mischief Reef are, therefore, inside or covered by the patrol route," the report says.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Vipul » 07 Aug 2013 19:38

Chinese wish that Japanese were as unrealistic as Indians in Strategic/Defence matters.

The launch of Japan's largest warship since World War II has evoked a strong reaction from China, which on Wednesday expressed concern over Tokyo's "constant expansion" of its military capabilities.

Analysts quoted by the Chinese state-run media described the Japanese vessel as a "de facto aircraft carrier" with a potential to target Beijing's newly built aircraft carrier Liaoning.

China called on Japan to abide by its policy of peaceful development and warned against its military expansion hours after Tokyo put the helicopter carrier for sea-trials on the 68th anniversary of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, official media in Beijing reported.

"We are concerned over Japan's constant expansion of its military equipment," state-run Global Times quoted the Chinese defence ministry as saying.

"Japan's Asian neighbours and the international community need to be highly vigilant about this trend. (Check what your Neighbours have to say about chinese buil up and claims on other nations territory)

"Japan should learn from history, adhere to its policy of self-defence and abide by its promise to take the road of peaceful development," it said. (Yeah you be pacifist, while we build our military strength so that future Chinese hegemony is a fait accompli)

"The launch of the new warship, a de facto aircraft carrier, without the approval of the Japanese Diet is an effort by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's government to break the limits of its peaceful constitution," Liu Jiangyong, deputy head of the Institute of Modern International Relations at Tsinghua University, told Global Times. (Chinese talking of about Constitution!!!)

Japan launched the country's new-generation 22 DDH-class helicopter carrier in Yokohama on Tuesday. With a length of 248 meters, the $1.14 billion carrier, named Izumo, has a displacement of 27,000 tonnes, with its flight deck being able to carry up to 14 anti-submarine helicopters.

The Izumo, scheduled to enter service in March 2015, is the third helicopter carrier to be used by the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force.

The new warship marks a major improvement in size and capability as it is almost 50 per cent larger than the current Hyuga-class carriers, the Global Times said in its report.

Japanese Defence Ministry said the Japan built carrier could play a major role in disaster and rescue missions, as well as defending sea lanes and sovereignty claims.

The launch coincided with intensification of China-Japan spat over the disputed islands called Daioyu islands by China and Senkakus by Japan in the East China Sea. Ships from both sides currently are aggressively patrolling the islets waters to ascertain their claims .

"Tokyo wanted to use such an established fact to tell the Japanese public that Japan's constitution has in reality been revised," he said. (yeah deal with it and expect a big build up of Japanese Navy and Air Force)

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby kit » 07 Aug 2013 21:25

I think India needs the Japanese more than japan needs India when it comes to vs china. Why is that Japan is less engaged with India than say the US in strategic and military matters ? They seem to be showing overtures but is India responding in a way that should make sense ? Or is there any other game or plain stupidity on part of GOI ? The japs certainly can find out ways around their constitution to have a realistic alliance with India.Its all a matter of interpretation as the US of A consistently proves !

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby kit » 07 Aug 2013 21:30

NRao wrote:I love surgical strikes. But, would blowing up the whole ship be an option?


Aircraft carriers are very difficult to sink by conventional strikes ., i think some one has posted about this in detail in an earlier thread.They can be crippled by precision weapons.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 08 Aug 2013 09:18

RoyG wrote:looks photoshopped.


It's not photoshopped, it's a CG.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 08 Aug 2013 09:33

Japan's day of reckoning has yet to come, they did not pay nearly enough for their transgressions in WWII. The payment needed not to be in materials, money, or lives, they could've done it through words and actions. They didn't, and so they will pay instead with, well, materials, money, and lives.

They have their rights to fight for the Diaoyu islands, the Kurils, and whatever land they are in dispute with. What they don't have the rights to do is to visit shrines for their war criminals, saying that sex slaves their soldiers took were just whores, and naming their newest, biggest ship Izumo, the same name as the flagship of the invasion force against China in WWII. Imagine if Germany's leaders visited shrines for Hitler and blamed the holocaust on the Jews. Heck, they don't even name their tanks Panzer now, even though panzer is German for tank.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby krishnan » 08 Aug 2013 09:56

so chinese day of reckoning is not far as well

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 09 Aug 2013 14:19

krishnan wrote:so chinese day of reckoning is not far as well


We all reap what we sow, if you wishes to reap more than what you've sowed, you need to be prepared for the consequences. America was prepared when they encroached on Native lands, India was not prepared when they encroached on Tibetan lands, we'll see in the future how well China and Japan have prepared.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby kit » 09 Aug 2013 15:58

NRao wrote:I am sure there are some within the Chinese establishment that are itching to start something.

However, this time around, despite the differential between the two sides, the equation is very different. The IAF will be involved and that by itself will need a good deal of thought. Besides, India cannot afford a loss, but either a win or a draw is OK. China needs a win and not a small win. That is asking a lot, even with the disparity.


The IN need to be involved right from the start in any India China conflict.It can hit them where they fear the most .. foreign trade .. Chinese economy being more dependent on it than India . In all probability it will force them to close a war much earlier in India s favor.Slogging out a prolonged war with IA and IAF is definitely not in India's interests.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 11 Aug 2013 11:33

kit wrote:
NRao wrote:I am sure there are some within the Chinese establishment that are itching to start something.

However, this time around, despite the differential between the two sides, the equation is very different. The IAF will be involved and that by itself will need a good deal of thought. Besides, India cannot afford a loss, but either a win or a draw is OK. China needs a win and not a small win. That is asking a lot, even with the disparity.


The IN need to be involved right from the start in any India China conflict.It can hit them where they fear the most .. foreign trade .. Chinese economy being more dependent on it than India . In all probability it will force them to close a war much earlier in India s favor.Slogging out a prolonged war with IA and IAF is definitely not in India's interests.


Surely IN needs to be involved and involved early, but hitting trade routes isn't the way to go. A LOT of countries trade with China through the Indian ocean, and India doesn't have the political clout to take on China and all those other countries at the same time. I mean, if an American ship insists on sailing through the Indian Ocean, are you really gonna sink it?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Sagar G » 11 Aug 2013 11:42

Don't pipe dream DavidD Americans will be more than happy if India and China go to war destroying each other. If a war happens and India imposes a naval barricade America will only follow it with a smirk on it's face. Isn't America moving 60% of it's naval force in your backyard which caused a lot of heartburn back in your home. So stop hallucinating that America will come to help you in case we go to war.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 11 Aug 2013 22:47

What gives?

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/acs/201308100019.aspx

New Chinese Navy vessels pack Zhoushan port on east coast
2013/08/10 20:27:15

Taipei, Aug. 10 (CNA) A dozen Chinese navy warships, including the latest model destroyers and frigates, have docked in a naval port in Zhoushan, a coastal city in Zhejiang Province, according to pictures posted on the Chinese news website Huanqiu.com.

According to a report on the website Friday, the pictures taken by netizens showed more than 10 naval vessels of various sizes, including destroyers, frigates and supply ships, and some Internet users described the port as being packed with ships.

The Dinghai military port in Zhoushan is one of three bases of the Chinese Navy's East Sea Fleet and the fleet's primary port, the report said, but it did not comment on the significance of the buildup.

The fleet consists of seven missile-guided destroyers, 24 missile-guided frigates, seven submarines and three composite supply vessels.

The Zhoushan naval base, which faces Japan's Kyushu, offers the most accessible channel for the Chinese Navy to enter the West Pacific Ocean and the East China Sea, where the disputed Diaoyutai Islands are located.

China and Japan have been at loggerheads over the islands, which are also claimed by Taiwan, since Japan moved to nationalize them last September by buying some of the rocky outcrops from their private owners.

Beijing has responded by repeatedly sending naval vessels near the islands, which are administratively controlled by Japan.

Most recently, four Chinese naval ships sent to patrol waters off the disputed islands for 28 hours from Aug. 7 to Aug. 8 were still in the vicinity of the islands on Aug. 9, according to information released by the Japan Coast Guard.

(By Chou Hui-ying and Y.L. Kao)


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 12 Aug 2013 01:59

Sagar G wrote:Don't pipe dream DavidD Americans will be more than happy if India and China go to war destroying each other. If a war happens and India imposes a naval barricade America will only follow it with a smirk on it's face. Isn't America moving 60% of it's naval force in your backyard which caused a lot of heartburn back in your home. So stop hallucinating that America will come to help you in case we go to war.


I think most sane posters here realize how western nations, the U.S. included, would react if you blockade say the Malacca straits. It has nothing to do with wanting help either side, it has everything to do with the trillions of dollars of trade going through the Malacca straits.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby svinayak » 12 Aug 2013 06:04

DavidD wrote:
I think most sane posters here realize how western nations, the U.S. included, would react if you blockade say the Malacca straits. It has nothing to do with wanting help either side, it has everything to do with the trillions of dollars of trade going through the Malacca straits.

India is bothered about only chinese shipping. India will allow rest of the world trade without any obstruction.

PRC shipping and its oil will be the target

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby manjgu » 12 Aug 2013 06:17

what is this 'chinese shipping'? as i said in another thread does India have the balls to stop a ship flying the French flag and taking oil to china?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 12 Aug 2013 06:42

manjgu wrote:what is this 'chinese shipping'? as i said in another thread does India have the balls to stop a ship flying the French flag and taking oil to china?


Also, how exactly does the IN intend to identify, track, and stop all of the thousands of ships that head to China every day via the Indian Ocean, all the while defending against a possible Chinese naval attack?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_22539 » 12 Aug 2013 09:17

^Do not need to identify or stop 100% of Chinese traffic. If they stop and detain a few ships or if it comes to it, sink a few, the rest will evaporate like the promises China makes.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20067 » 12 Aug 2013 09:31

couple of ships being sunk will raise the insurance premium enough to discourage any additional commercial traffic through a "hot" zone...

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 12 Aug 2013 11:02

Prithwiraj wrote:couple of ships being sunk will raise the insurance premium enough to discourage any additional commercial traffic through a "hot" zone...


If it were that easy then even Vietnam can blockade China. I mean, there aren't too many countries worth a damn out there who can't sink a couple of commercial ships. Even the Israelis blockading the Palestinians didn't dare to just sink some ships, they had to board and commandeer the ship. Heck, nobody even sinks PIRATE ships off Somalia unless attacked, and you're talking about sinking civilian ships? I think some of you are considerably oversimplifying geopolitics.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_22019 » 12 Aug 2013 12:47

DavidD wrote:Even the Israelis blockading the Palestinians didn't dare to just sink some ships...


May be Israelis were scared of Mighty Palestinian Navy...
Why would Israel bother to blockade when its normal ground forces can easily accomplish the objective!!! You are free to indulge into wishful thinking; good for us.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Sagar G » 12 Aug 2013 19:05

DavidD wrote:I think most sane posters here realize how western nations, the U.S. included, would react if you blockade say the Malacca straits. It has nothing to do with wanting help either side, it has everything to do with the trillions of dollars of trade going through the Malacca straits.


I think most sane posters also do realise how funny it is to see Chinese posters pipe dreaming about USA coming to save there ass in case India enforces a naval blockade on China. We also don't have to hit each and every ship but only the one's that will hurt you. "Trillions of dollars of business" happens during peacetime, not a possibility during a full blown war between India and China. During war businesses will think of saving there assets than caring for making "trillions of dollars". The possibility of loss in the form of man and material is deterrent enough to enforce a blockade.

Please tell us more about your dreams of how USA will come to save China when IN imposes naval blockade in case of an Indo-China war.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20067 » 12 Aug 2013 20:10

DavidD wrote:
Prithwiraj wrote:couple of ships being sunk will raise the insurance premium enough to discourage any additional commercial traffic through a "hot" zone...


If it were that easy then even Vietnam can blockade China. I mean, there aren't too many countries worth a damn out there who can't sink a couple of commercial ships. Even the Israelis blockading the Palestinians didn't dare to just sink some ships, they had to board and commandeer the ship. Heck, nobody even sinks PIRATE ships off Somalia unless attacked, and you're talking about sinking civilian ships? I think some of you are considerably oversimplifying geopolitics.


Only a fool can compare the hostilities between Israel and Palestine with a future hostility between India and China. If the situation comes to down it --- the entire shipping lanes will be mined.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 14 Aug 2013 02:24

Sagar G wrote:
DavidD wrote:I think most sane posters here realize how western nations, the U.S. included, would react if you blockade say the Malacca straits. It has nothing to do with wanting help either side, it has everything to do with the trillions of dollars of trade going through the Malacca straits.


I think most sane posters also do realise how funny it is to see Chinese posters pipe dreaming about USA coming to save there ass in case India enforces a naval blockade on China. We also don't have to hit each and every ship but only the one's that will hurt you. "Trillions of dollars of business" happens during peacetime, not a possibility during a full blown war between India and China. During war businesses will think of saving there assets than caring for making "trillions of dollars". The possibility of loss in the form of man and material is deterrent enough to enforce a blockade.

Please tell us more about your dreams of how USA will come to save China when IN imposes naval blockade in case of an Indo-China war.


Yes, saving assets is better than losing trillions of dollars in business. You know what's even better than that? Not losing trillions of dollars in business. The west won't come to save China, it'll come to save themselves trillions of dollars. You're a fool if you think the west will just stand idly by while India takes literally trillions of dollars away from them, not to mention sinking their ships and killing their civilians while at it.

If you can't see through that, there's no point in discussing this matter any further. It'll just be the same bravado as spewed by the nuke everyone crowd.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 14 Aug 2013 02:29

SiddharthS wrote:
DavidD wrote:Even the Israelis blockading the Palestinians didn't dare to just sink some ships...


May be Israelis were scared of Mighty Palestinian Navy...
Why would Israel bother to blockade when its normal ground forces can easily accomplish the objective!!! You are free to indulge into wishful thinking; good for us.


Exactly my point. Even when going up against a non-existent Navy, even when they have the backing of the U.S. of A., the Israelis still did not dare to just sink a ship. Think about it for a moment. Is it because the Israelis are a bunch of sissies unlike all the macho macho men on this board? Or is it because their actions are actually based on reality rather than bravado?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Eric Leiderman » 14 Aug 2013 03:04

Hi David
You may be right and you may be wrong
However I hope the keepers of 25 cents think the same way as you do, because not if, but when there is a conflict you may find your assumptions are just that assumptions.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_22539 » 14 Aug 2013 07:12

How pathetic that some chinese think that the west would come to save their a$$ in a war with India due to their own greed. Is this how the wily chinaman thinks? If that is the case then we have little to fear from these people. Trillions of dollars indeed. Maybe he has forgotten how billions were lost in trade with Iraq, Libya, etc. etc. Where was the western fear of monetary loss? The west will make you pay through your nose in case of a war, both during and after the war. It is not like there is no other way to the US/Europe, after all the earth is round. You can get your arab oil and western trade through the suez (however little by little it is). This premium they will make you pay will more than make up for any potential loss the west will suffer. You are deluded to think that a blockade will hurt anyone but the chinese.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ashi » 14 Aug 2013 08:28

Arun Menon wrote:How pathetic that some chinese think that the west would come to save their a$$ in a war with India due to their own greed. Is this how the wily chinaman thinks?


Arun, you misunderstood what DavidD said. He didn't say west would come to save Chinese "a$$", he meant India didn't dare to sink a civilian ship, be it flied a Chinese flag or a foreign flag.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Eric Leiderman » 14 Aug 2013 09:22

ashi
China tends to portray more than the capabilities it possesses , Which is fine for domestic consumption of the little princes with large egos.
India tends to understate its capabilities.
So China can make all the assumptions it wants.
If we get another 2-3 years of this border fiasco like what happened in Dulat Beg , you will be doing India a huge favour by rubbing our diplomats noses in the mud. Because then you will see the other side of India and the little princes in their fancy uniforms will actually have to fight. There is no doubt the chinese milatary dresses up well , I will not argue with that one.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ashi » 14 Aug 2013 09:45

Eric Leiderman wrote:ashi
China tends to portray more than the capabilities it possesses , Which is fine for domestic consumption of the little princes with large egos.
India tends to understate its capabilities.


Eric, what I what know and what I remember, it is the opposite. Like the "forward policy" that couldn't be backed up with real capabilities and it led to the border war, the rest is history.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 14 Aug 2013 10:33

ashi wrote:
Arun Menon wrote:How pathetic that some chinese think that the west would come to save their a$$ in a war with India due to their own greed. Is this how the wily chinaman thinks?


Arun, you misunderstood what DavidD said. He didn't say west would come to save Chinese "a$$", he meant India didn't dare to sink a civilian ship, be it flied a Chinese flag or a foreign flag.


Thank you, I don't see how people don't get that it's not a good idea to just start sinking civilian ships. I'm not overstating or understating Chinese capabilities here, I'm not stating anything regarding their capabilities as a matter of fact. I just don't think it's realistic to think that people around the world would be tolerant to any country unilaterally stopping their trade and killing their citizens if they can do something about it.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby vishvak » 14 Aug 2013 10:43

Like not going to war?

Just to remind - during war it is indeed expected to save/not-endanger lives of civilians, by the way - civilians on both sides. As also adhering to conventions of war itself.

In fact even during peace time civilized conduct should be followed at border areas.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_22019 » 14 Aug 2013 11:09

DavidD wrote:
SiddharthS wrote:Why would Israel bother to blockade when its normal ground forces can easily accomplish the objective!!!


Exactly my point. Even when going up against a non-existent Navy, even when they have the backing of the U.S. of A., the Israelis still did not dare to just sink a ship. Think about it for a moment. Is it because the Israelis are a bunch of sissies unlike all the macho macho men on this board? Or is it because their actions are actually based on reality rather than bravado?


You ducked the point.
The Israelis did not NEED to sink a ship. Had they needed, they must have.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_22019 » 14 Aug 2013 11:13

ashi wrote:
Eric Leiderman wrote:ashi
China tends to portray more than the capabilities it possesses , Which is fine for domestic consumption of the little princes with large egos.
India tends to understate its capabilities.


Eric, what I what know and what I remember, it is the opposite. Like the "forward policy" that couldn't be backed up with real capabilities and it led to the border war, the rest is history.


Everytime there won't be a nehru and menon to save you. If capability is present, intentions can change overnight. While recalling 62, don't forget to mention 67.


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