China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Nov 2013 11:31

a clip from above link ' Meanwhile, the U.S. Air Force Space Command uneasily monitors a constellation of three maneuvering Chinese satellites launched July 19 with no fanfare, trying to determine their military utility. ' .. what gives ??

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Nov 2013 11:48

Chinese satellites Shiyan-7, Chuangxin-3 and Shijian-15 — which all launched into orbit together on July 20

Soon after the July launch, it was known that one of the three satellites carried a prototype manipulator arm to capture other satellites

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Nov 2013 11:56

I think china believes it has attained a certain level of strength to challenge the status quo in asia ,,and it is only a matter of time that it actually does, it will that's for sure.All this looks like baby steps now but soon it will walk and run.. India has to stand up now !.. time to walk the talk

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Nov 2013 11:57

DavidD wrote:
Tiwari wrote:
Has the map been verified especially vis a vie the Japanese ADIZ zone showed. After all I note the source!
It's public information, you can check it out for yourself. I hope people understand that ADIZ is not a NFZ. Every country has a ADIZ one and nobody respects it. Just a a week or two ago the Russians sent a few bombers into the Japanese ADIZ, for example. In a couple of years, nobody will be talking about this, and the status quo would've changed ever so slightly.

Well, clearly the government of China does not agree with you. Otherwise they would not have set up an "inconsequential" ADIZ in first place. And then why would they send planes to monitor and "defend" the same space?

This is how I read the turn of events.
1. Japan went one up when they claimed the islands. What does China do to retain its claim. Can't do anything about the seas, so claim the airspace.
2. But the plan kind of went wrong, as initially the Chinese were testing the waters. Americans, Koreans, Japanese, basically whoever had a say in that space made a mockery of the claim by flying their aircraft through the space at will.
3. Now China has 2 options. a) Withdraw the claim (which China never will), and you heard the talk on it, or b) try to enforce the unilateral rules, which it is doing by sending its planes to "defend" the space.

Seems quite simple to me.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2013 13:26

china will likely launch another few trios of NOSS satellites to drive home the message soon that it will detect and can target 24x7 any naval activity upto the philipine-japan chain. maybe with 5 such trios in the same orbital plane they could have 24x7 coverage as one trio will always be over that region.

http://blog.project2049.net/2011/03/yea ... llite.html

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 29 Nov 2013 14:02

U never pick a fight with your customers because customer never looses! CHINA has trillions in US paper and almost 70% of GDP in exports to west and JAPAN. So they cannot afford to start a war with them no matter how much capable its mil is. This US and JAPAN knows and just drove their planes right into the heart of the arrogant vendor.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2013 14:50

it works both ways. neither can japan and america afford to pick a fight on small issues with china.
now define small issue. the chinese always keep changing the goalposts inch by inch when nobody is looking..after a few yrs the new goalpost becomes the de facto ground position.

they have already successfully established miraculous oil rig type stilt cities on disputed reefs and even opened a new municipality and airport on a bigger reef.
nobody starting with japan and ending with indonesia has been able to do anything about it.
http://i1.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/ ... tation.jpg

china clearly has the momentum and holds all the escalatory cards as they are deciding what to do, when to do...rest are reactive mode.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2013 21:35

found this in militaryphotos.net forum

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2013 21:41

amidst the war cries of china strong, american/japani/korean dogs go back...

http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories ... 6-sm6.html

SM-6 has entered full-rate production and the program has already delivered 50 missiles ahead of schedule and under budget. Follow-on test and evaluation will continue into 2014 to validate the integrated fire control capability in an operationally realistic environment.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Nov 2013 22:08

China Scrambles Jets for First Time in New Air Zone

The American planes identified by the Chinese jets on Friday were a P-3 and an EP-3, said Col. Shen Jinke, a spokesman for China’s Air Force, according to Xinhua, the state-run news agency.

The Chinese account said the 10 Japanese aircraft were of three types of military models. It named the E-767, an airborne warning and control system aircraft, the P-3 surveillance aircraft and the F-15 jet fighter, but did not say how many planes of each type.

member_27808 · Post by **member_27808** » 30 Nov 2013 02:38

indranilroy wrote:
Well, clearly the government of China does not agree with you. Otherwise they would not have set up an "inconsequential" ADIZ in first place. And then why would they send planes to monitor and "defend" the same space?

This is how I read the turn of events.
1. Japan went one up when they claimed the islands. What does China do to retain its claim. Can't do anything about the seas, so claim the airspace.
2. But the plan kind of went wrong, as initially the Chinese were testing the waters. Americans, Koreans, Japanese, basically whoever had a say in that space made a mockery of the claim by flying their aircraft through the space at will.
3. Now China has 2 options. a) Withdraw the claim (which China never will), and you heard the talk on it, or b) try to enforce the unilateral rules, which it is doing by sending its planes to "defend" the space.

Seems quite simple to me.

The other element of this may be that there is a certain element of new leadership syndrome here that is peculiar to such single party states i.e. poke the neighbours in the eyes to show the domestic masses and domestic power threats (and the world) that even though we're new to the leadership we have balls to take you on. This was most evident with North Korea recently when little tubby took over.

However, I don't know if this theory really holds for China as, after all, China has the second biggest economy in the world and shouldn't need to resort to this sorts of puerile tactics. But, who knows what really goes on in the minds of the politburo few and the leadership as the Chinese state and military machinery is so opaque.

member_27808 · Post by **member_27808** » 30 Nov 2013 04:13

Two good articles on issue looking at issue from different angles.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/n ... n-aircraft

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/n ... shinzo-abe

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 30 Nov 2013 04:42

Tiwari wrote:However, I don't know if this theory really holds for China as, after all, China has the second biggest economy in the world and shouldn't need to resort to this sorts of puerile tactics. But, who knows what really goes on in the minds of the politburo few and the leadership as the Chinese state and military machinery is so opaque.

I was watching this video by two American analysts comparing India and China. One of them was this lady of Indian origin called Rollie Lal. Rollie was comparing them based on their (normal people she interviewed) fears. Indians tended to have multiple fears she said - like India might lose it's grip over Kashmir or one of the north eastern states or war with pakistan going nuclear etc. The Chinese uniformly talked about how CPC might lose power and that China would break apart. It is surprising that a state like China would have such insecurities, but they do and in this day and age. Size, physical or economic seems to have very little to do with it.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 Nov 2013 06:54

KrishnaK wrote: Indians tended to have multiple fears she said - like India might lose it's grip over Kashmir or one of the north eastern states or war with pakistan going nuclear etc.

This is completely media created for Indians in the last 30 years. These are manufactured fears

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Dec 2013 00:00

US advises airlines to comply with China's air regs:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... -zone?lite

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Dec 2013 00:42

\Seems smart as I Highlighted the Chinese might end up shooting a civilian airliner to show their machoness.

rajrang · Post by **rajrang** » 01 Dec 2013 03:04

subhamoy.das wrote:U never pick a fight with your customers because customer never looses! CHINA has trillions in US paper and almost 70% of GDP in exports to west and JAPAN. So they cannot afford to start a war with them no matter how much capable its mil is. This US and JAPAN knows and just drove their planes right into the heart of the arrogant vendor.

But China is akin to a single source vendor, no other single country can match their supply capacity. So, the US being heavily dependent upon Chinese imports, will also be hurt economically in a war.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Dec 2013 03:15

Everything seems to point to India being in a position to grab the focus - pretty much in every respect. Is India ready?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2013 02:13

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 706983.cms

china++
isro--

on this onlee

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 02 Dec 2013 02:15

http://thediplomat.com/2013/11/how-chin ... the-su-35/

More speculation on the chinese inrerest in the su35 and the numbers involved

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Dec 2013 07:49

Canada charges man over 'bid to spy for China'

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 03 Dec 2013 05:33

In this scenario US and sons of Nippon get their collective butts kicked by China over the Senakus.

http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/pos ... ns_violent

Can you see the reactions by congress critters?

note....you may have to google for link.......dog fight go down foreign policy

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Dec 2013 05:47

NRao wrote:Everything seems to point to India being in a position to grab the focus - pretty much in every respect. Is India ready?

No.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 58437.aspx

Surrender monkeys at the MEA/PMO

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Dec 2013 05:48

If China's Airspace Grab Turns Violent, Here's How the Dogfight Could Go Down

I am very surprised that he even assumed that the Japanese would send any F-15s as escorts!!!!

I love these simulations, where one can be as idiotic as can be Oh, why not. They cost nothing, but yet get plenty of web hits.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Dec 2013 05:55

Cosmo_R wrote:
NRao wrote:Everything seems to point to India being in a position to grab the focus - pretty much in every respect. Is India ready?
No.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 58437.aspx

Surrender monkeys at the MEA/PMO

Love the following quote:

former foreign secretary Lalit Mansingh wrote:India has its own set of problem with China. It's better not to take positions on other countries' problem with China

India does not even take a position when China tells India not to send the President of the Nation to AP!!!!!!

Shoot self in the foot on procurement, let China dominate the IOR, ..........spend time analyzing till eternity............ yada, yada, yada..................

Well, just proves that there is a God.

member_28131 · Post by **member_28131** » 03 Dec 2013 06:07

^ UPA strategy for the past 10 years: Do nothing about everything.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 03 Dec 2013 08:21

Far East -No longer ADIZ

South Korea, Japan and the United States have flown surveillance aircraft through China's ADIZ without notifying Beijing in advance.

I have a feeling we are going to find out if Chinese pilot skills have improved since the days of a certain Mr. Wang Wei.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Dec 2013 09:39

Cosmo_R wrote:
NRao wrote:Everything seems to point to India being in a position to grab the focus - pretty much in every respect. Is India ready?
No.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 58437.aspx

Surrender monkeys at the MEA/PMO

Possibly India just may not be prepared for what China can throw at her?

Indian Navy concerned over Bangladesh's decision to buy two submarines from China

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 04 Dec 2013 15:18

I think I may like where this is going

2 December 2013
Canada charges man over 'bid to spy for China'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25179250

4 December 2013
Australia investigation into 'China spy' case
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25210980

I willl distribute sweets to all if the next one is out of NZ or UK.
The five English zentelmen are tickling the dragon.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 06 Dec 2013 03:33

SAR tests in China...

member_27808 · Post by **member_27808** » 08 Dec 2013 02:44

Meanwhile the Chinese have recently been trying to strong arm the Philippines with their new carrier. Deployed with two destroyers and two missile frigates for a training run!!!!

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/ ... -china-sea

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/92491/ ... ippine-sea

member_27808 · Post by **member_27808** » 08 Dec 2013 02:54

I am estimating Da Nang to Sanya to be 300km or so. A battery or two of Brahmos should should be a must for the Vietnamese if the Liaoning is based in Sanya!

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=sanya ... CAgQ_AUoAg

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 09 Dec 2013 23:55

SURPRISE !!!!! Well not really........

Chinese-Brazilian satellite is lost in space

Brazilian and Chinese scientists are coming to terms with the possible loss of the Cbers-3 satellite, which was launched earlier today (9).

The Brazilian National Institute of Aerospace Research (INPE) told news portal G1 that all the stages of the launch had been successful, including the opening of the solar panels, essential for the maintenance of the equipment's battery life.

INPE staff is working with the Chinese Academy of Spece technology (CAST) to understand what went wrong.

Cbers-3 cost R$160mi ($69mi) to the Brazilian and Chinese governments and was launched from the aerospatial base of Taiyuan (760km from Beijing). The Brazilian communications and science and technology ministers, as well as INPE officials attended the event, which took place three years after the expected date.

The equipment was developed under the China-Brazil Earth Resources Satellite program and is equipped with cameras that can generate extra-high resolution imagery - amongst other things, this could help preserve areas such as the Amazon rainforest by identifying possible illegal fires and devastation areas.

Currently, NASA satellite Landsat can capture images of the entire Amazon rainforest in 16 days. The expectation was that Cbers-3 would be able to complete the same task in five days.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 10 Dec 2013 00:29

NRao wrote:
Possibly India just may not be prepared for what China can throw at her?

It does not matter. China has an objective: to cut India down to size. It prefers to do this through intimidation and if there is resistance, to do it through force.

Mukherjee/MMS go to AP and PRC complains—making them walk on eggshells within India itself. That's intimidation. Holding quadrilateral exercises? One comment from Beijing and India pulls out. That's intimidation.

GoI has had 15 years since Pokhran to sort out the defense mess. We all know how that went.

PRC wants to divide and conquer and has started the same process of intimidation with Japan and the Philippines.

India will not be able to handle anything PRC throws at us for another 20 years. They are not going to wait that long.

We really need a new security architecture for Asia involving common goals, interests and synchronization/interoperability of weapons platforms.

India can play a huge role in this if the PMO/MEA were not timid and had an ounce of imagination. They are timid not just because they fear PRC but also because they sense their leftist and vote bank constituencies will scream.

JMT

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 10 Dec 2013 00:32

Cheeni maal hai bhai, itna hii chalega

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 10 Dec 2013 01:24

Sagar G wrote:SURPRISE !!!!! Well not really........

Chinese-Brazilian satellite is lost in space

We can be smug about this one failure, but Long March 4B has equivalent or slightly better (~3%) reliability than PSLV. Still a pretty good rocket.

Rupak · Post by **Rupak** » 10 Dec 2013 02:10

NRao wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:
Possibly India just may not be prepared for what China can throw at her?

Indian Navy concerned over Bangladesh's decision to buy two submarines from China

This is just silly. Bangladesh is a sovereign country and can choose to purchase whatever equipment she wishes. The tragedy is that she has to turn to the Chinese rather than to India. IMHO, this is the result of systemic failure in neighbourhood policy...
The late RK Mishra used to lament that India, in recent times, had neither the capacity to engender love nor fear among her neighbours.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2013 02:51

in a way it enables for (derogatory term edited out, pls do not repeat - JE Menon) sub-surface signatures identified to the level china can provide. if they provide sophisticated ones, it becomes more a problem for the Chinese as well.. if one thinks about technology capability. but then, if IN fears and gets concerned over this means, it just exposes their capabilities precisely.

now it is time for introspection and change.. giddy up!

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 12 Dec 2013 05:12

India far behind China’s combat power

India is years behind the Chinese military with the Communist neighbour currently outnumbering the country’s combat power by a 3:1 ratio, a defence ministry document has revealed.

India hopes to bridge the gap in the next 15 years by improving its fighting capacity with new stealth jets, aircraft carriers, nuclear-powered submarines, warships and land-based strike formations.

The document, accessed by Hindustan Times, predicts the picture will change by the end of the 14th Plan period (2022-27), with India narrowing the gap in combat power with China to a “desirable ratio” of 1.5:1.

The dynamics of combat power encompass elements such as a military’s firepower, mobility, logistic capability, manpower and sustainability — factors that ultimately determine the outcome of a war.

Strategic affairs expert air vice Marshal Kapil Kak (retd) said the “desirable combat ratio” appeared to be achievable.

Steps taken by India to counter China’s military build-up have led to a marginal improvement in the relative-force ratio, the document shows.

The setting up of two new infantry divisions in 2010 in the northeast has lowered China’s combat advantage to a “2.7:1 ratio”. Odds, however, are still stacked against the army.

“In a land battle, an army can only defend against an attacking force three times its strength,” a former chief said.

The raising of a new mountain strike corps — with 85,000 soldiers — to defend Arunachal Pradesh is expected to further reduce the Chinese military advantage to a ratio of 2.1:1 by end of the 13th Plan Period (2022).

The new strike formation will give the army the capability to mount offensive action into the Tibet Autonomous Region.

Experts warn China is expected to step up efforts to transform its military to retain an edge over India. China’s official defence budget for 2013-14 stands at Rs. 5,94,000 crore, compared to India’s Rs. 2,03,672 crore.
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Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Dec 2013 09:35

Rupak wrote:
NRao wrote:quote="Cosmo_R"]

Possibly India just may not be prepared for what China can throw at her?

Indian Navy concerned over Bangladesh's decision to buy two submarines from China/quote]
This is just silly. Bangladesh is a sovereign country and can choose to purchase whatever equipment she wishes. The tragedy is that she has to turn to the Chinese rather than to India. IMHO, this is the result of systemic failure in neighbourhood policy...
The late RK Mishra used to lament that India, in recent times, had neither the capacity to engender love nor fear among her neighbours.

Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Taiwan are soverign countries, but neither US, China or Isreal take thier acquisitions lightly. It is not silly, we need to be prepared andd make plans for it.