China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Karan M » 19 Feb 2014 00:34

lol the above demonstrates craven impotence in dealing with the PRC IP violations, to be honest thanks to PRC demoing strong focus on indigenization.... india is perhaps the only country which continues to put up with russian conditions and be a decent partner in mil development. lesson for india is that it too needs to build up its MIC and only take selective partnerships, instead of buying tier 2 junk like the T-90.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby merlin » 19 Feb 2014 12:16

[quote="Karan M"lesson for india is that it too needs to build up its MIC and only take selective partnerships, instead of buying tier 2 junk like the T-90.[/quote]

That lesson would be obvious to a blind man, but not to Indians.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 19 Feb 2014 12:59

Karan M wrote:lol the above demonstrates craven impotence in dealing with the PRC IP violations, to be honest thanks to PRC demoing strong focus on indigenization.... india is perhaps the only country which continues to put up with russian conditions and be a decent partner in mil development. lesson for india is that it too needs to build up its MIC and only take selective partnerships, instead of buying tier 2 junk like the T-90.


PRC has a different view on this they says the original Su-27SK purchased in 1990 did not have any condition not to product unlic copy for their internal needs .. may be the Russians in desperation of 1990 made a loose agreement and PRC exploited it.

Either ways we are not seeing any Flanker being exported or in export competition with Russian Flanker and as UAC chief says Copying cant take you much further and limits your own potential.

Either ways its an eye opener to UAC and they have made stricter condition for Su-35 deal including no Lic Agreement or changes in components etc Plus they have a new agreement with PRC on IP and are going ahead with development of Civil Wide Body Aircraft and Heavy Chopper.

China is strategically closer to Russian views and interest when it comes to stopping NATO Expansion post break up of SU and opposing US Global ABM program and its hegemony in the region ... so there is a possibility that some of these copying is being ignored for mutual strategic interest , we are some how neutral to both these.

Either ways we are pursuing our own mutual interest with Russia and have our own Joint Development though India gets some technology thats not still available to PRC or others.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Feb 2014 05:54

HQ-7 Shorad deployed in Tibet...

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 20 Feb 2014 07:46

seems they have used a customized(smaller) variant of the MZKT 6922 vehicle used by the wheeled variant of the Tor system
http://www.ausairpower.net/Other/MZKT-6 ... osi-1S.jpg
interior http://www.ausairpower.net/Other/MZKT-6 ... osi-1S.jpg

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Feb 2014 07:50

But isn't it neat looking though? Gotta give Cheen A+ for making smart-looking military stuff.

Even if it just stops at the looks part... :mrgreen: :((

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 20 Feb 2014 08:03

oh yeah A1 for strong square jawed TFTA looks

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Feb 2014 22:55

On the subject of TFTA... :mrgreen:

Big, fat chinese cannot squeeze into their own tanks...

Beijing (AFP) - Chinese soldiers have become so much taller and fatter in recent years that they often find themselves cramped in tanks designed three decades ago, state media reported.

A survey found that People's Liberation Army troopers were on average two centimetres (0.8 inches) taller and five centimetres (two inches) fatter around the waist than 20 years ago, the military's official PLA Daily reported Tuesday.

As a result, it is harder for soldiers to squeeze into a tank designed for smaller personnel 30 years ago, it said.

Rifle stocks are also too short for some, limiting their accuracy, it added.

The findings of the survey, which began in 2009 and included more than 20,000 soldiers, suggested an upgrade to the military's equipment was necessary, the newspaper said, citing Ding Songtao, head of the poll project.

"Equipment must be in the right size for the battlefield, as clothes have to be in everyday life," Ding was quoted as saying. :rotfl:

Obesity rates have almost doubled in China since 1980, according to a recent report by the Overseas Development Institute (ODI), a London-based think tank.

The rise was attributed to diets changing with incomes rising, it said, and lifestyles become increasingly sedentary.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Misraji » 20 Feb 2014 23:09

vivek_ahuja wrote:On the subject of TFTA... :mrgreen:
Big, fat chinese cannot squeeze into their own tanks..


Looking forward to seeing that tidbit included in your scenarios ... :mrgreen:

--Ashish

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 21 Feb 2014 06:55

another contrarian fact is the way aussies like to project themselves as long haired surfer dude sporty culture worldwide in contrast to obese immobile americans and their pallid faced british cousins. but the reality is a bit different.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26131403
Around the world, Australia projects the image of a sporty, outdoorsy place full of fit people and open spaces.

But experts say unprecedented affluence along with a culture of convenience, growing portion sizes and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle have made one in two Australians overweight and turned the country into one of the fattest in the world.

Continue reading the main story
Australia's obesity problem

Australia is currently the fourth most obese advanced country in the world, after the United States, Mexico and New Zealand
According to the OECD report, 28.3% of Australian adults were obese in 2011 - up from 21.7% in 2000
Australia also ranked 19th place in terms of overweight children in developed nations
Obesity costs the Australian government billions in healthcare funds and reduced productivity rates each year
Source: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

While studies show that obesity rates in other developed countries like the US have begun to level off, Australia's are still on the rise.

Late last year, it climbed to fourth in the OECD's ranking of advanced nations with the largest proportion of obese citizens (28.3%), behind the US, Mexico and New Zealand.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 22 Feb 2014 08:27

Vivek,that was my first thought too.The neatness of the product.Look at the neat way in which the external cabling is clamped together.Contrast that with the close-up pics of the Arjun MK-2,etc.There appears to be a cultural difference between Indians today and other nations.Our wares look untidy,crudely put together.Ergonomics poor.I noticed it even with the quality of chairs in the bridge in some of our warships.In the small confines of a tank /tank turret,every effort must be made to make it as comfortable for the crew as possible.I would even suggest that we get the boffins at Maruti to assist CVRDE in the console/interior design.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Brando » 22 Feb 2014 16:05

vivek_ahuja wrote:But isn't it neat looking though? Gotta give Cheen A+ for making smart-looking military stuff.



In America "looks" are important because the private contractors have to convince the Pentagon who in turn have to impress Congress to buy their multi-billion high-tech doohickeys. In China "looks" are important because the Chinese government has to impress the nationalists and the internet chatterati that forms their gauge of vox populi that the government has a handle on national security and China is a "strong" country and therefore by extension has "great respect" internationally. The fact that neither private nor general has ever fought anything more stressful than illness is a moot point to their psyche.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby vivek_ahuja » 22 Feb 2014 20:07

Brando wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:But isn't it neat looking though? Gotta give Cheen A+ for making smart-looking military stuff.



In America "looks" are important because the private contractors have to convince the Pentagon who in turn have to impress Congress to buy their multi-billion high-tech doohickeys. In China "looks" are important because the Chinese government has to impress the nationalists and the internet chatterati that forms their gauge of vox populi that the government has a handle on national security and China is a "strong" country and therefore by extension has "great respect" internationally. The fact that neither private nor general has ever fought anything more stressful than illness is a moot point to their psyche.


Fair enough.

But to expand on this argument, I would like to state that it is not just USA and China etc. that have to deal with the looks/aesthetics of their military equipment to appeal to their citizenry. In fact, just by the same arguments as stated above, you could also make the argument that this applies for us as well. It need not be a case of useless aesthetics only. Psychology plays an important part and if your population is convinced that western/Russian or in general TFTA looks are part of the package of a good system, why to undermine that unnecessarily in your local products as if to prove a point of some kind? In this aspect I agree with Philip's assessment that we would do well to take some positive aspects of the way the Cheen like to portray themselves.

And no, I don't mean the grainy pics of new stuff or the awesome paint jobs on things that don't deliver. That trait is entirely Chinese.

But if we have weapon systems that work as well as "western" systems, it doesn't hurt to go the extra mile and make it visually appealing as well. Simple things like clean lines, stowed gear and ergonomics go a long way in bringing the biased to your side of the camp. Certainly couldn't hurt, no?

-Vivek

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby raj.devan » 23 Feb 2014 00:20

It also has a lot to do with marketing and PR. I'm sure that the PLA carefully chooses which photographs of its military hardware are circulated in the world press, and ensures that the hardware in question gets a thorough scrubbing & make-up job before every photo shoot.

In any case, good PR is always a nice thing to have. In a country like ours it can generate favourable public opinion, bolster confidence in trade and economy and persuade more people to look at the armed forces as a career.

The photo of the SHORAD trucks is actually from the Shenyang Military region, not Tibet, and is apparently the first in the PLA to feature female crew members. More photographs on the following links:

http://info.3g.qq.com/g/s?sid=A+drKwXWF ... i_newmiltt

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_7062396_1.html

The website is in Pinying, but you can see a patchy translation in English if you use chrome.
Last edited by raj.devan on 23 Feb 2014 00:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Brando » 23 Feb 2014 00:49

vivek_ahuja wrote: In fact, just by the same arguments as stated above, you could also make the argument that this applies for us as well. It need not be a case of useless aesthetics only. Psychology plays an important part and if your population is convinced that western/Russian or in general TFTA looks are part of the package of a good system, why to undermine that unnecessarily in your local products as if to prove a point of some kind? In this aspect I agree with Philip's assessment that we would do well to take some positive aspects of the way the Cheen like to portray themselves.


Absolutely, looks would help India's "image" and the image of the DRDO and also boost the credibility of our national defense but in a country where the defense minister himself doesn't know the difference between caliber and guage, shot from shell. breech from muzzle or even howitzer from mortar yet is supposed to sign-off on multi-billion dollar artillery deals, how would they even have an eye for aesthetics when most of the paper-pushers and politicians haven't the first clue what a SAM system or howitzer ought to look like ? And by extension doesn't the same apply to the general population at large too - that is ignorant, apathetic and blithely swallows whatever platitudes our politicians and their media mouthpieces put out about our national defense ? Case in point, the platitudes that surrounded the launch of the INSAS rifle as the ultimate panacea for our Army, however Kargil exposed the truth. Fact is, its only been in the last few years that India has hosted international military exhibitions, dRDO has put its weapons on display and an eye for product design has become a consideration through more robust defense reporting, military think tanks and due to people like us on BRF and other places on the internet voicing opinion.

Unless we have people like Rajdeep Sardesai or Arnab Goswami as secret members on Internet forums like BRF and others who can raise a stink or create public perception, I dont see how "any" of the views or opinions held by people like us matter to the politicians one whit considering most of them would consider us some fringe internet armchair generals and dilettantes at best. Unlike China where only the fringe is the most vocal and therefore the most appeased, in India "nationalism" is mostly rhetoric and rabble rousing than ensuring the credibility of our armed forces.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 23 Feb 2014 05:23

A case in point.Decades ago,there was great excitement in the West when Russia's two top secret fighters,the SU-27 and MIG-29 were to be participating at Farnborough.It was an eye-opener for the western experts.Both aircraft performed superbly,but what also struck them was the difference in external finishing between the two.The Flanker was clean,smooth,manufactured like any western fighter,the experts drooled over it,but the MIG was not so perfect as the Flanker.When they asked the Russians why there was a manufacturing diff. between the two,they were told that ,yes it could easily be built like the Flanker,at some extra cost,but their needs didn't demand it as long as it performed as expected.No guesses as to which aircraft became the best selling Russian export in recent times! looks do matter.

Ergonomics is absolutely vital for better crew performance,esp. in tanks and ICVs.The tiny confines,heat,etc.,demands that the crew are given the best possible environment to be able to fight in good mental and physical condition.It's why on the SU-34 bomber version of the Flanker,there is a toilet,mini-pantry and space between the seats for a crew member to lie down and get some shuteye for long endurance missions.Some nuclear subs even have jacuzzis for the crew.Our defence and industrial design certainly has to get more sophisticated in its aesthetics.Another case in point,Nirbhay.The number of protruding rivets anything but riveting and finish far inferior to that of BMos.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Eric Leiderman » 23 Feb 2014 06:40

Nirbhay is a prototype , give it time, b-mos is in production

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Karan M » 24 Feb 2014 13:19

philips comments on aerospace never fail to amuse. nirbhay is a prototype. brahmos production missiles are covered with RAM. ergo, no rivets etc visible.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby VinodTK » 28 Feb 2014 05:39

The Future of China’s Expeditionary Operations
Back to the USSR?

China does not seek an overseas presence as the Soviets did in the 1980s. They simply cannot do it yet. The USSR needed decades to establish a global naval presence. For China, it would not be different. However, the world is watching how China is on the march to reach the status of a ‘medium global force projection navy’, comparable to the British and French. In terms of numbers, but not in terms of quality, Beijing’s navy has already surpassed Paris’ and London’s and the naval armament goes on:
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PLAN carrier strike groups

Accompanied by two destroyers, two frigates and two submarines, China’s carrier has been deployed for the first time to the South China Sea. Militarily, Liaoning‘s trip may just have been an exercise. Politically, however, it was a clear message from Beijing: Our carrier can go to the South China Sea and we are there to stay. This has been the first “show of force” by a Chinese carrier strike group. More will follow. Simple exercises could have been done in closer home waters.
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Indian Ocean deployments

Since 2008 the PLAN has had a permanent naval presence in the Indian Ocean, officially in order to fight piracy. However, one side effect is the build-up of a new overseas presence. To understand what China could (not) do in the Indian Ocean it makes sense to look back at what the Soviets did. Their naval presence in the Indian Ocean (late 1960s – 1991) was normally between 5-10 surface warships and a few submarines. However, there were no Soviet carrier operations, just due to the lack of carriers. Moscow’s intentions were a show of force, surveillance of US activities (like the SIGINT station on Diego Garcia) and, in case of war, to open up an additional naval front to bind US capabilities, raid US supply lines and prevent US SSBN from striking Central Asia.
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Beyond the Indo-Pacific

After numerous friendly visits and a 2011 evacuation operation in Libya, the PLAN is now engaged in a real operation in the Mediterranean (Med’). Together with Danish, Norwegian, British, and Russian warships, one PLAN frigate is protecting Danish and Norwegian freighters transporting Syria’s chemical weapons to a US vessel for the c-weapons’ destruction. China’s Med’ deployment is hardly motivated by altruistic regard for what Europeans call “international responsibility”. Instead, the Chinese are just taking any opportunity they get to gain more operational experience.
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Win wars without fighting

If Peaceful Rise ever was real, it is definitely over. China’s latest Defence White Paper clearly said that China aims to win local wars under the conditions of informationization. Moreover, the White Paper outlined that China would not attack first, but if attacked, it would strike back. However, the White Paper left open what China considers an attack. An attack does not have to be a kinetic strike, but rather China could consider other states’ activities in waters claimed by China as an attack on its national sovereignty.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 28 Feb 2014 09:56

anyone remember the shaktiman trucks of old, with welds that we could do better as newbie III sem workshop lab students in engg college?
the leyland stallion and tata trucks are so much better now.
the nissan jonga was another crudely made piece of work for which unfortunately there seems no replacement now? huffy/tuffy/tigr/axe all seem to have been on trials only?
what wheeled recon vehicle other than M&M jeep is used?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 28 Feb 2014 13:24

Improved Chinese Stealth Fighter Nears First Flight

Thought to be the third flying example of the J-20, the new aircraft is being considered as a true developmental airframe for an operational fighter, and has introduced a number of significant improvements over the two technology demonstrators that preceded it. Many of the changes are measures taken to reduce the type’s radar cross section.

With the side number 2011, the new J-20 introduces sawtooth trailing edges on the two engine nozzles. It also has the aft tips of its all-moving vertical fins cropped, a feature that has been applied to at least one of the earlier aircraft. Aircraft 2011 additionally has the tips of the canard foreplanes cropped. The engine intakes have been redesigned with a sloping upper edge and larger capture area, while the underwing fairings for the control surface actuators have been reprofiled and reduced in size. The main weapon bay doors have been redesigned with a more sophisticated sawtooth pattern on leading and trailing edges, while the nosewheel door pattern has been simplified. Most noticeable, however, is a new paint scheme with what appears to be a special coating applied to the edges of the wings and tail surfaces.

Another notable change is the addition of a low-profile fairing under the nose for an electro-optical/infrared sensor, which may provide an air-to-ground function as well as air-to-air tracking capability. Prototype 2002, the first with radar, appeared earlier with a pedestal for an infrared search-and-track system forward of the windscreen, but aircraft 2011 has an undernose installation redolent of the EOTS (electro-optical targeting system) fitted to the Lockheed Martin F-35. The J-20’s radome, with canted bulkhead, almost certainly houses an AESA radar. One further change for aircraft 2011 is the addition of a solid arch frame to the one-piece canopy.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Sid » 28 Feb 2014 14:21

Singha wrote:anyone remember the shaktiman trucks of old, with welds that we could do better as newbie III sem workshop lab students in engg college?
the leyland stallion and tata trucks are so much better now.
the nissan jonga was another crudely made piece of work for which unfortunately there seems no replacement now? huffy/tuffy/tigr/axe all seem to have been on trials only?
what wheeled recon vehicle other than M&M jeep is used?


Its off topic for this thread but i would like to correct your assumptions on shaktiman.

Jawans loved this truck, they were maintenance friendly and reliable. They were really good rugged military trucks. OTOH Ashok Leyland stallions not so rugged and reliable.

Talked to few jawans in Hisar and other places. They had Tatra and stallions in their regiment. They ranked tatra first, then shaktiman and then stallion. They had no complaints on tata trucks (in general).

Few of them also shared their sorrow on Indian built T series talk. They complained about poor material as compared to ones being imported. They said during high summer temperatures rubber grips and pads just melts of their original place.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby ashi » 02 Mar 2014 23:12

J-20 showing off canards

Image

2011 first flight

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby rohitvats » 02 Mar 2014 23:27

Singha wrote:anyone remember the shaktiman trucks of old, with welds that we could do better as newbie III sem workshop lab students in engg college? the leyland stallion and tata trucks are so much better now. the nissan jonga was another crudely made piece of work for which unfortunately there seems no replacement now? huffy/tuffy/tigr/axe all seem to have been on trials only?
what wheeled recon vehicle other than M&M jeep is used?


Shaktiman was one truck which the drivers used to swear by....same goes for Nissan Jonga; it had the same engine as Army's 1-ton trucks and grand total of 3 forward gears. But that thing could take you to hell and back...nothing even comes close to the performance of that beast. Downside was the fuel economy....4 KMPL on Petrol!!!

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 04 Mar 2014 17:00

A Chinese Z-10 attack helicopter has crashed today at approximately 14:00 hrs today in Weinan, Shaanxi province. Crew on board is reported to have been sent to hospital ( via mp.net )

Image

More photos http://congnghequocphong.blogspot.in/20 ... trung.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 05 Mar 2014 06:51

China congress reveals growth target and defence boost

China announced a growth target of 7.5% and revealed plans to raise its defence budget by 12.2%, as it opened its annual parliament session in Beijing.


CB for you!!!

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 05 Mar 2014 12:29

China Announces 12.2% Increase in Military Budget

Dennis J. Blasko, a former military attaché at the American Embassy in Beijing and a retired Army officer, said the 2014 Chinese military budget “won’t break the bank, but it says to the troops, ‘Thank you for your service, you are important to us, we support you.'”

“A significant portion likely will be used for more pay raises,” he added. “You may recall hearing some talk about how P.L.A. officers should be paid more than civil servants.”

A major portion of the increase will go to “better, more realistic training,” Mr. Blasko added. “The navy will also continue to train more at greater distances from China, which is more expensive than training in local waters.”

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby wig » 06 Mar 2014 10:07

China, announced its defence budget for the year 2014 allocating $ 131.57 billion, 12.2 per cent more than the $117 billion allocation for 2013
excerpted
Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, while addressing the Communist Party-controlled National People's Congress (NPC) today, said: “We will resolutely safeguard China's sovereignty, security and development interests… place war preparations on a regular footing and build China into a maritime power”.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/20140306/nation.htm#12

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby SSridhar » 06 Mar 2014 13:59

China's Ballistic Missile System for Targetting Aircraft Carriers - N.Gopal Raj, The Hindu
China has established a novel system for using land-based ballistic missiles to deter America's powerful nuclear-powered aircraft carriers from coming anywhere near its coast, says a team of Indian analysts.

A constellation of satellites and at least one over-the-horizon radar give its Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) system the capability to work out the position of U.S. aircraft carriers at sea, according to assessments published by researchers at the National Institute of Advanced Studies in Bangalore.

Land-based ballistic missiles, carrying manoeuvrable warheads with conventional munitions, could then, if needed, target the aircraft carriers at a distance of about 2,000 km.

The ASBM had “shaken the traditional view of the U.S. Navy’s unassailable superiority in the Pacific,” according to a report prepared by a group of experts with the Institute's International Strategic and Security Studies Programme
.

The system “will serve as a credible deterrent against American intervention in China's maritime disputes, of which it has several with its Asian neighbours,” it noted.

“No one thought it was possible to target moving aircraft carriers with long-range ballistic missiles,” remarked S. Chandrashekar who participated in the assessment. The Chinese had come up with “a very innovative system” based on well-understood components.

China's constellation of Yaogan military satellites includes those for electronic intelligence (ELINT) gathering that detect radio signals and other electronic emissions from an aircraft carrier and its associated warships. China currently has three clusters of ELINT satellites that provide global surveillance.

In each cluster, there are three satellites that maintain a triangular formation in orbit and can locate ships producing radio signals with an accuracy of 25 km to 100 km, according to him.

The Yaogan constellation also includes radar satellites as well as satellites with optical sensors that can establish the position of the aircraft carriers with much greater accuracy.

In the course of a single day, the current Yaogan constellation can provide about 16 targeting opportunities for ballistic missile launches when the uncertainity in an aircraft carrier's position will be less than 10 km.

“These preliminary results suggest that China has in place a space-based surveillance system that can identify, locate and track an aircraft carrier in the Pacific Ocean,” according to a recent report prepared by the analysts.

Although the land-based ballistic missiles can target aircraft carriers using just the Yaogon constellation, the number of targeting opportunities become fewer if cloud cover obscures the view of satellites with optical sensors, observed Prof. Chandrashekar.

By incorporating an over-the-horizon radar that can continually track aircraft carriers up to a distance of about 3,000 km, the Chinese gain the flexibility to launch the ballistic missiles whenever they choose, he pointed out.

He and his colleagues also found that China could modify its proven DF-21 ballistic missile to carry a manoeuverable warhead. With an onboard radar, the warhead could, as it is descended through the atmosphere, precisely locate the moving aircraft carrier and then adjust its trajectory to strike the ship with conventional munitions.

Their analysis of openly accessible images of the DF-21D indicated that this missile variant met the dimensional requirements for such a mission. It could hit ships that were about 2,000 km from the Chinese mainland.

The F-18 Super Hornet, the U.S. Navy's main carrier-borne attack aircraft, has a mission radius of about 750 km. China would therefore want to prevent America's formidable Carrier Strike Groups from venturing within 1,000 km of its coast, their report observed.

The Chinese military is known to have successfully tested the ASBM against a land-based simulation of an aircraft carrier, according to him.

“The open literature does not provide any information about whether the system has also been tested with a ship at sea,” he told this correspondent.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 08 Mar 2014 03:10


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby raj.devan » 08 Mar 2014 15:53

In the course of a single day, the current Yaogan constellation can provide about 16 targeting opportunities for ballistic missile launches when the uncertainity in an aircraft carrier's position will be less than 10 km


I don't understand. Does this mean that the Sat Constellation will locate the target ship to within a 10km tolerance? Hitting a moving target requires reliable and accurate terminal tracking and guidance, and merely locating a target in a 10km circle doesn't look like it helps in that regard even for a stationery target, let alone a moving one.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby TSJones » 08 Mar 2014 22:42

raj.devan wrote:
In the course of a single day, the current Yaogan constellation can provide about 16 targeting opportunities for ballistic missile launches when the uncertainity in an aircraft carrier's position will be less than 10 km


I don't understand. Does this mean that the Sat Constellation will locate the target ship to within a 10km tolerance? Hitting a moving target requires reliable and accurate terminal tracking and guidance, and merely locating a target in a 10km circle doesn't look like it helps in that regard even for a stationery target, let alone a moving one.


...suppossedly the war heads have infrared/radar seekers on them to take over final manuervering to the target. Ancient Chinese secret, whutevah. We figure it's good for a first strke anyway.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby raj.devan » 08 Mar 2014 23:52

I was thinking that maybe it should be 10m or even 100m... Which would make sense as a tolerance value when tracking a ship. Tracking even an AC to a 10km circle seems pointless if you want to hit it from 2000km away.

Perhaps the Hindu correspondent hadn't a clue what he was writing about and blindly replicated what he thought he heard from the expert without using his head.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tushar_m » 09 Mar 2014 17:11

China’s Claims of Defense Spending Boost in Doubt


One day after the US released its proposed defense budget for the coming year, China did the same, boosting defense spending by more than 12 percent. But analysts caution that the numbers don’t tell the whole story.

According to the Ministry of Finance, national defense spending is 808.23 billion yuan (US $131 billion), up 12.2 percent from the previous year. Last year, it was 730 billion yuan (US $119 billion), a 10.7 percent increase from the year before.
Despite the increases, actual spending was less that what China had earlier announced it would spend.

“According to my records, 2013 is the second year in a row in which China’s actual defense spending wound up being significantly less than was announced at the beginning of the year,” said Roger Cliff, senior fellow with the Asia Security Initiative at the Atlantic Council.

“The announced budget in March 2013 was … an increase of 10.7 percent over 2012. Actual expenditure in 2013 was … an increase of only 7.6 percent over 2012.”

The announced increases also never account for inflation, Cliff said. “Inflation in 2013 was expected to be 3.2 percent, official inflation figures for 2013 haven’t been released yet, as far as I know, so the increase in defense spending from 2012 to 2013 was only 4.3 percent in real terms.

“In fact, since 2009, China’s defense budget has grown by an average of only 4.7 percent in real terms,” Cliff said. “And yet, because the increases are always announced in nominal terms, not real terms, and the budgets announced at the beginning of the year have been exceeding the amount actually spent, everyone is still talking about ‘annual double-digit increases in China’s defense spending.’ ”

“One additional bit of information: Inflation in 2014 is expected to be 3.5 percent, so even if defense spending winds up being as high as announced for 2014, that will still only be an 8.4 percent increase over 2013 in real terms,” Cliff said.
This is not new or surprising, said Richard Bitzinger, senior fellow for the Military Transformations Program at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore.

“About the only piece of real news here is that the defense budget is up, nothing new there, by about 12 percent. That figure is a bit on the high side for recent years — last year’s increase was ‘only’ around 10 percent — but it’s in keeping with the general trend since the late 1990s,” he said.

“Figure now 17 straight years of near-double-digit increases in defense spending — that’s pretty impressive. Few countries have ever achieved that.

“But what does it mean?” Bitzinger said. “All the boilerplate being put out by the Chinese government that this increase is just for ‘defensive’ purposes is nonsense. There is no strictly ‘defensive’ or ‘offensive’ nature to most arms modernization efforts.”

He added that most modern armaments are neutral, and the offensive/defensive nature of them depends on how they are used. “And certainly, such spending increases and [Army] modernization activities look ominous in the light of Chinese aggression in places like the East and South China seas.

“In short, this is a long-term worrisome trend in China’s military buildup, and so long as China continues to be opaque about its regional political-military intentions and what it wants to use its modernizing military for, then others have a right to be concerned.”

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby asprinzl » 10 Mar 2014 04:12

Cannot blame China for being secretive or deceptive. They are doing this in the most determined national self interest or the self interest of the party in power. If China's neighbors are caught sleeping, its at their own peril.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 11 Mar 2014 02:05

This seems to have gone unnoticed so far. The ability to launch multiple high-resolution ocean/sea monitoring satellites at short notice to search for parts of a plane indicates China's preparedness to do the same in the event of a conflict. Images from such satellites could of course be used to set initial trajectories for anti-ship ballistic missiles.

ToI: China deploys 10 satellites as ‘unprecedented mystery’ over missing Malaysian jet deepens

PTI | Mar 10, 2014, 09.32 PM IST

BEIJING: As the unprecedented mystery over a missing Malaysia Airlines plane deepens, China on Monday pressed 10 high-resolution satellites to scurry South China Sea to find leads that could help locate the flight with 239 people on board.

China's Xi'an Satellite Monitor and Control Center has launched an emergency response for the search and adjusted up to 10 high-resolution satellites to locate the missing plane which is presumed to have crashed on Saturday, the People's Liberation Army said.

Citing the Centre, the army said the centre purged the original commands of several satellites to offer full services in weather monitoring, communication and other aspects for the search, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 11 Mar 2014 02:17

^^^^^

The "launch" is in ref to "an emergency response", not sats. The sats are already there spying on others.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PratikDas » 11 Mar 2014 02:22

I see. I didn't know if the comment "the centre purged the original commands of several satellites to offer full services in weather monitoring, communication and other aspects for the search" pertained to the same 10 satellites or others, but I suppose you're right.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 11 Mar 2014 02:25

I would not be surprised if you are right too. I am quite sure china is capable of launching sats in a very short period of time.

tushar_m

Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tushar_m » 11 Mar 2014 09:54

US behind Turkey’s purchase of Chinese missile system: Kanwa

The primary reason for Turkey, a major US ally and a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, to purchase the FN FS-2000, the export version of the Chinese HQ-9 long-range surface-to-air missile, was not to defend its airspace but to steal critical information regarding the missile for the United States, according to Kanwa Defense Review operated by Andrei Chang, a military analyst based in Canada, also known as Pinkov.

Turkey’s national interests rely on the acceptance of the United States and European Union, the article said that and for this reason it is very hard to imagine that some day Turkey will side with potential NATO adversaries such as Russia or China. The government in Ankara also realizes how much pressure will be on them if they chose to purchase Chinese instead of American air defense systems.

Kanwa said that Turkey’s new cross-harbor tunnel beneath the Bosphorus was completed with investment from Japan. As Japan is now a major advocate of Turkey’s accession to the European Union, the report said it is impossible for it to become a security partner with China, which is engaged in a territorial dispute with Japan in the East China Sea.

The report also said that Germany, a fellow NATO member, could can stop Turkey from getting too close to China through halting the provision of supplies that the Turkish navy requires for its Meko-class frigates. The United States can also refuse to sell the fifth-generation Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighters to Turkey in protest against Ankara’s cooperation with Beijing. This would be a very expensive price for Turkey to pay for changing sides, according to the magazine.

As most of its weapons systems are from either the United States or other NATO powers, Turkey is unlikely to purchase Chinese missiles, Kanwa said, which is why Russia pulled its S-400 from the competition. Apparently, Turkey is trying to steal critical data from the HQ-9 for its allies through the purchase of the Chinese missile, following the example of South Korea when it previously did the same with the Russian-built Sukhoi Su-35 fighter.



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