China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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nits
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby nits » 14 Mar 2014 14:30

Launching 10 satelite is one capability but to devlop 10 satelites in matter of days is another and in IMHO i don't believe China or even US can 10 devlope satelites and its ground support infrastructyure in matter of 3-4 days

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby vivek_ahuja » 15 Mar 2014 20:35

Well, they designed a clean looking bird. Gotta give them that much.

Image
Image
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby JE Menon » 15 Mar 2014 20:53

Looks fantastic actually.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 20 Mar 2014 00:26


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby anupmisra » 20 Mar 2014 00:28



Something is black in the lentils. This aggressive and proactive strategy by the Chinese has been the their hall mark ever since the plane disappeared. Five satellites and dozens of ships from day 1.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 20 Mar 2014 05:10

China needs to send her ships to:

Search for Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 Drastically Narrows

A few 1000 miles south:

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tushar_m » 21 Mar 2014 15:48

Indian Navy headless as Chinese nuclear sub prowls Indian Ocean

A Chinese nuclear powered attack submarine (SSN) made its first declared operational patrol for two months in the Indian Ocean. The Foreign Affairs Office of China's Ministry of Defence informed India's military attache in Beijing of the deployment on December 3 last year "to demonstrate respect for India."

Top secret intelligence assessments preapared by R&AW and Naval Intelligence terms, term the two-month deployment of the Shang class SSN between December 13,2013 and February 12, 2014, as 'seriously aggravating India's security concerns'.

India's security establishment is still assessing the impact of the deployment that comes at a time when the Indian Navy has been headless for over three weeks. Defence Minister AK Antony swiftly accepted Admiral DK Joshi's resignation on February 26-he quit owing moral responsibility for a string of naval accidents - but is yet to appoint his successor.

The assessements circulated among the highest levels of India's security establishment last month, predict the Chinese SSN patrol will be followed by the deployment of a Carrier Battle Group (CBG) in two or three years.

Intelligence reports say the Chinese deployment aims to 'demonstrate its ability to protect its interests in Africa and West Asia as well as Sea Lanes of Communications' and 'to send a message of persuasion to Indian Ocean Rim States.'

Naval sources say the Shang class submarine left its bastion on Hainan island in the South China Sea on December 3. Ten days later, on December 13, the SSN reached the Gulf of Aden via the Ombai Wetar Straits near Indonesia. It remained on patrol in the area for nearly two moths. China has deployed two warships on anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden region since 2008.

The deployment of the submarine armed with land attack and anti-ship cruise missiles and torpedoes, has ominous consequences for the Indian Navy's ability to project power into the Indian Ocean. The navy considers the region it considers its primary sphere of influence but suffers from a short-legged undersea fleet. Only seven of India's fleet of 13 conventionally powered submarines are operational. One Kilo class submarine exploded and sank in Mumbai harbour on August 14 last year. The navy operates a solitary Akula class SSN, INS Chakra, leased from Russia in 2012.

The Arihant, the first of three indigenously built nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) is yet to commence sea trials, five years after it was launched. The government is yet to okay a 2010 proposal by the navy to build a fleet of four indigenous SSNs to escort the Arihant SSBNs and protect Indian aircraft carriers.

"China has credibly demonstrated a formidable capability in our backyard," says Vice Admiral KN Sushil, veteran submariner and former Southern Naval Command chief. "We are yet to sail the Arihant, we are nowhere near starting our own SSN programme and we have no strategic capability yet to deter China."

Vice Admiral Sushil says the deployment of SSN screens with the Chinese CBGs will give the Chinese "awesome power" and seriously challenge the Indian Navy's sea control strategy.

China's Ministry of Defence informed five other nations- the United States, Singapore, Indonesia, Pakistan, and Russia - of the submarine's deployment in December. Naval officials say this was done possibly to prevent adverse reactions in case their SSN encountered technical problems. Older Chinese 'Han' class SSNs have been plagued by reactor troubles. Analysts say the glitch-free deployment of the submarine seems to indicate the Chinese have overcome the reactor troubles in the Shang class. China has two Shang class second-generation boats and is building four more.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Vivek K » 22 Mar 2014 08:27

Vivek Ahuja, what is that bid? While we remain in dispute about a basic trainer, others are not sittingaround twiddling their thumbs.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Khalsa » 23 Mar 2014 14:23

anupmisra wrote:


Something is black in the lentils. This aggressive and proactive strategy by the Chinese has been the their hall mark ever since the plane disappeared. Five satellites and dozens of ships from day 1.


Meanwhile the Australians are having Black Dhal with Noodles
http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/0 ... 70-search/

Jokes aside... its great to see the international effort.
New Zealand has a Orion at Perth from D + 5 and even the Japanese are sending their Orions too.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby kit » 24 Mar 2014 12:44

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 577951.cms

But the official Chinese media is full of praise for Russia's show of muscle that has even frightened western powers, who are now reluctant to interfere in favor of Ukraine.

"The US and EU are reluctant to take decisive counter measures, as they are not sure what Russia's response would be," Global Times said.

Suggesting China's future is best assured by enhancing military power, the paper said, "In international politics, the No.1 element is a country's comprehensive power. What is said is not so important - but after gaining more power, there will be fewer hostile challenges".

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 24 Mar 2014 13:32

Chinese do have significant military power and far greater Economic Clout but some how they tend to backout when challenged must be decades of inward looking has created that mentality, they created the Air Defence Zone recently and they did not pursue by enforcing it making them look stupid and clueless on why they claimed on creating that zone. I feel the will and determination to fight to uphold ones nations national interest is different from the ability to have arms or economic muscle , not every nation has that will its something in your blood the American , Russian . Israel have it in them.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby sarabpal.s » 24 Mar 2014 14:30

We should not take it thatway , they created extended air zone but did not enforce it because this is 1step of many to come in years. China create and diffuse the tension at his own term this way anytime

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 24 Mar 2014 23:24

Austin wrote:Chinese do have significant military power and far greater Economic Clout but some how they tend to backout when challenged must be decades of inward looking has created that mentality, they created the Air Defence Zone recently and they did not pursue by enforcing it making them look stupid and clueless on why they claimed on creating that zone. I feel the will and determination to fight to uphold ones nations national interest is different from the ability to have arms or economic muscle , not every nation has that will its something in your blood the American , Russian . Israel have it in them.


So if China shows aggressiveness then it's stupid for making the neighbors ganging up on it, but if China doesn't then it's being weak, is that it?

There was a good article on I think CNN about the relevance of looking weak vs. strong vis-a-vis Obama's apparent "weakness" in the face of Russian "strength". The conclusion is that posturing doesn't matter. What matters is exactly what the blue quote in the post above yours says: comprehensive national strength is what matters. This is a point I've been making for a very long time. Friction at this moment is normal. As China grows in strength, there'll naturally be frictions as it seeks a new status quo more suitable for its growth. In time, the new balance of power will naturally settle to something commensurate to each country's strength, and thus the most important thing right now is to increase a nation's "comprehensive national power".

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 25 Mar 2014 01:04

The situation is Crimea is compounded by the fact that, when the USSR split, Ukraine was a nuclear power. Ukraine traded her nukes for territorial integrity. Now Ukraine is unable to cash in her guarantees. Sad.

IMHO, this has set back denuking to a great extent. Who in the world will believe the West here on out? (Who did?)

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 25 Mar 2014 14:45

DavidD wrote:So if China shows aggressiveness then it's stupid for making the neighbors ganging up on it, but if China doesn't then it's being weak, is that it?


Its more of a case of China taking a Maxamilist position and then backing down from it ......unless there is some strategy involved like for eg in recent ADIZ and then not enforcing it.

But its true as China grows there will be friction and then at some point it will have to fight out the US Containment Strategy ( politically/diplomatically/economically/militarily )to be in its own league

Ofcourse you cant apply what Crimea is to Russia is similar to China is to South China Sea or Kosovo is to NATO etc ...each situation has its own history behind it and each country takes its own calculated risk when applying some kind of military force.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tushar_m » 31 Mar 2014 09:28

Putin gives green light to sale of S-400 missile system to China

Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, has given a green light to sell the country’s newest S-400 air defense guided missile system to China, which Russian media claim will give Beijing an edge in the airspace of the Taiwan Strait and over islands in the East China Sea at the center of a dispute with Japan, reports the military news website of Huanqiu.com, the Chinese-language website of China’s Global Times.

Beijing has been interested in acquiring the guided missile system since 2011. Two years ago, Russia talked with several countries interested in buying the system but was forced to suspend negotiations in order to ensure its supply to the Russian military, the general manager of a Russian national defense export company told Russian newspaper Kommersant in January this year. Export sales of the system may not begin until 2016.

Talk of a potential deal with China drew concerns from Russian security officials who worried that it may not only affect the supply of the system to Russia’s own military but also that China could back-engineer the technology to produce its own systems. The system’s manufacturer Almaz-Antei has eased the former concerns by delivering the first batch of the system. Moscow also announced a plan in January to build three new plants for the contractor in order to build more air defense and anti-guided missile systems. An intellectual property rights agreement that China and Russia signed with regard to the arms trade has also come into effect.

Though in what volume China wishes to acquire the S-400 system is unclear, Kommersant’s source said China wants enough systems to equip two to four battalions. The People’s Liberation Army has already obtained an air defense guided missile system and another command system from Russian and deployed them in the defense of Beijing and Shanghai, according to the paper, which estimated that the country would be able to control the airspace over Taiwan and the disputed Diaoyutai islands (Diaoyu to China, Senkaku to Japan).

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby raj.devan » 31 Mar 2014 11:50

PLAN commissions first Type 052D DDG, puts second on sea trials

http://www.janes.com/article/35842/plan ... sea-trials

Kunming , with pennant number 172, appears to be a development of the Luyang II (Type 052C)-class destroyer but feature several improvements in terms of design, weapons and sensors.

The 7,500-tonne warship has a range of 4,500 n miles and can attain a top speed of 30 kt. It can accommodate a crew of 280 and carry up to two Harbin Zhi-9A Haitun or Kamov Ka-28 Helix helicopters on its flight deck.

The Luyang III class incorporates an enhanced version of the indigenously developed Type 346 Dragon Eye active phased-array radar on its forward superstructure. The vessels have provisions for one bow-mounted sonar and towed array sensors each although further details on these are not yet available.

The ships are armed with six Yu-7 324 mm torpedoes that can carry a 45 kg warhead over a range of 14 km. Aircraft persecution is achieved with 64 HHQ-9B vertical launching system (VLS) cells divided between the forward and aft sections of each boat. These are designed to fire 90 kg warheads up to a distance of 100 km. The Luyang III class's firepower is augmented with one H/PJ38 130 mm main gun and one Type 730 30 mm gun on each vessel.

Shortly after the commissioning of Kunming , Chinese state media reported on 23 March that its sister ship Changsha , with pennant number 173, took to the waters of Zhoushan in eastern China to commence sea trials. Both vessels are expected to be based in the South Sea Fleet. The PLAN is expected to operate a fleet of 10 Luyang III-class DDGs.



PLA needs bigger advanced destroyers to strike fear: Xinhua

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 0331000035

The commissioning of China's first Type 052D destroyer is only the beginning of the nation's future fleet of advanced destroyers, reports the country's official newswire Xinhua, which called the vessel a state-of-the-art destroyer.

The Type 052D has 64 launch silos capable of firing air defense, anti-ship, cruise and anti-submarine missiles. Compared to its predecessor, the Type 052C, the Type 052D has fewer anti-air and anti-submarine missiles because it needs more space to carry other types of missile against ground and surface targets.

The Type 052D’s relatively small size means the PLA Navy will still need larger vessels against potential threats in the Asia-Pacific region, however. The report said that such new surface combat vessels must be intimidating to the enemy like the massive dreadnoughts in service in the early part of the 20th century. Experts speculate that the advanced destroyer must be equipped with new technology that other combat vessels currently lack.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 02 Apr 2014 00:01

Neville Maxwell discloses document revealing that India provoked China into 1962 border war

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1 ... r-its-1962

At an official banquet in Beijing in 1971, Neville Maxwell had the shock of his life. Premier Zhou Enlai and Pakistan's then prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto rose from the head table and walked to the foreign correspondents' table, where The Times reporter was seated.

"Mr Maxwell," said Zhou through his interpreter, "your book has done a service to truth, and China has benefited from that." Zhou called for a glass of mao-tai and offered him a toast.

"That moment at the banquet is deeply engraved in my memory, failing as it sometimes is," Maxwell said in an interview with the South China Morning Post.

The 87-year-old Australian journalist and historian likes to make jokes about his supposedly fading memory. But he won't let India forget its past errors which, he says, led to the 1962 Sino-Indian war.

Beijing would welcome the revived attention to their India dispute JOURNALIST NEVILLE MAXWELL
For nearly half a century he has been going against the grain of Indian collective memory that remembers the humiliating defeat in the month-long border war as an unprovoked act of aggression by a country it considered a friend.

This month he pulled a Snowden on India. He exposed a top-secret Indian war report that returned the spotlight to a period in history that still sours public opinion in India and bars normal ties between the two Asian giants.

In a specially created blog, Maxwell published a chunk of the secret war report that harshly criticised the highest echelons of power in India at the time for pursuing a flawed strategy of provoking China without the means to handle a backlash.

India's toll in that short war in the high Himalayas was 1,383 killed, 1,047 wounded and 1,696 missing. China never declared its losses. The war ended when Beijing suddenly called a unilateral ceasefire and ordered its troops to retreat to their previous positions - all after dealing India its worst military drubbing.

India called the "attack" a stab in the back. But China maintained it was a necessary counterattack to fend off India's advances on its territory - Maxwell's thoughts exactly. "I had been trying for years to get the report on to the public record but it had begun to look as if the report might never be published, and I thought that would be dreadful," Maxwell told the Post in an exclusive interview. Speaking from Sydney, it was the first time he discussed his disclosure that has made waves in India.

Maxwell covered the 1962 war as The Times' India correspondent. Like all Western journalists, he unquestioningly accepted India's line that China had been the aggressor and reported it as such. Later, when he took a sabbatical to study the conflict more deeply, he said he began to see China's side of the story.

"I was blinded by ideology … liberal anti-communism. You'll see the same affecting many journalists today, as American policy continues the cold war," he said.



Serious questions have been raised about whether the Indian army should have taken on the People's Liberation Army. Photo: SCMP

In 1970, a converted Maxwell published an influential yet controversial revisionist tome, India's China War - the object of Zhou's praise at the banquet the following year. The book chronicled how India provoked Beijing into the fight, challenging the narrative of Chinese aggression. For his conviction, Indians denounced Maxwell as a China apologist and an India-basher.

The inspiration for Maxwell's epiphany was widely believed to be a document that gave him a rare insight into the workings of the then Indian establishment. The so-called Henderson Brooks-Bhagat Report was an operational review of India's military debacle commissioned by New Delhi that Maxwell managed to obtain.

Compiled by Lieutenant-General Henderson Brooks and Brigadier Premindra Singh Bhagat in 1963, it has been kept secret by the Indian government despite repeated appeals that it be declassified. The government's excuse for keeping the report under wraps "for national security" has few takers in India. The predominant view is that the government aims to protect the legacy of the then prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru.


Disgraced by the 1962 defeat, Nehru died a broken man within two years. But the Nehru-Gandhi clan, through its grip on the ruling Congress Party, has continued to maintain a near monopoly on the levers of power.

The report is a dry army operations review, its terms of reference narrowed to military preparedness to insulate the civilian leadership from a witch hunt. But the authors still manage to make a scathing implicit attack on top civilian and military authorities.

In particular, they rip into the so-called "forward policy" pushed by the Nehru government, under which Indian troops were told to advance from their existing positions to stake out new territory and force out the Chinese.

The report details how this brinkmanship was forced down the throats of ground commanders despite their repeated warnings about reversing the border's status quo without sufficient preparation. Such moves, they said, were bound to provoke the Chinese.


Half a century on, as India and China struggle to overcome the mutual suspicion left over from the war, peaceniks hope Maxwell's outing of the secret war report might lead to more critical examination within India about its own role in the war and help reset bilateral relations.

Indian media organisations have been widely covering the report, long seen as the key to bringing closure to a national shame. Opposition parties have renewed demands for the report to be declassified, but the government has refused to budge. In a moving piece thanking Maxwell, Indian Express editor Shekhar Gupta wrote that the report was still being treated as top secret only to "protect our carefully crafted and preserved mythologies of 1962".

For China, the significance of the disclosure goes beyond India. At a time when there is growing disquiet in the region over China's claim to a "peaceful rise", a revisiting of the 1962 war helps it polish its credentials while reaffirming its ideological steel in view of its disputes in the South China and East China Seas.

"Beijing would welcome the revived attention to their India dispute," Maxwell said. "Its lessons are that China is conflict-averse and will do all it can to reach peaceful solutions, but that it can't be pushed around and will never back away from defending what it sees as its basic security concerns. If the issue becomes fight or surrender, the PRC will always fight."

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 02 Apr 2014 12:27

JANES: PACOM chief says China will deploy long-range nuclear missiles on subs this year
The People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) will likely equip its submarines with long-range nuclear missiles for the first time by the end of 2014, according to a 25 March statement to the US Senate Armed Services Committee by the head of US Pacific Command (USPACOM), Admiral Samuel Locklear.

"China's advance in submarine capabilities is significant. They possess a large and increasingly capable submarine force," the admiral told the committee. "I think they'll have in the next decade or so a fairly well modernised force of probably 60 to 70 submarines, which is a lot of submarines for a regional power."

He added that the latest class of PLAN submarines would be armed with a new ballistic missile with an estimated range of 4,000 n miles (7,500 km). "This will give China its first credible sea-based nuclear deterrent, probably before the end of 2014."

Locklear was referring to the production of China's Jin (Type 094)-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine and the JL-2 missile. The JL-2 is a three-stage solid-fuel stellar-inertial guided missile that can travel over 4,320 n miles (8,000 km) while carrying a single 1 MT nuclear warhead. A single Jin-class submarine can carry 12 JL-2 missiles.

According to IHS Jane's Fighting Ships , the PLAN currently operates four nuclear-powered ballistic submarines (SSBNs), five nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) and 53 diesel-electric submarines (SSKs).

Satellite imagery viewed by IHS Jane's confirms that China has built at least four Jin-class boats. A Pentagon report to Congress in mid-2013 claimed three were operational, which would confirm imagery showing three alongside at Yulin naval base on Hainan island in early 2014. Meanwhile, a fourth was seen at Bohai shipyard No. 431 at Huludao in January 2013 but is since believed to have finished construction ahead of commissioning.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 04 Apr 2014 13:48

nice pic of a 051 and tico ship during some naval review
http://i.imgur.com/VvwcHtr.jpg

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 05 Apr 2014 17:38

http://indiandefence.com/threads/china- ... ing.45246/

China and Pakistan to strengthen cooperation in Submarine building

According to military reports Russian military messenger network April 3 reported that China and Pakistan is working to expand the manufacture of naval vessels in the military-technical cooperation. It is reported that Pakistan will China ordered a number of new conventional submarines.

The Pakistani government recently announced news that the country's Minister of Defense Industry is currently visiting China, during which the ship with China on joint construction program to promote talks. The two sides discussed the construction of a joint shipyard in Pakistan issues in the negotiations, while China has explicitly said it would do everything possible to help the Palestinian side of the program.

Although the Pakistani official did not disclose details about the plans for future cooperation the two sides, but there are sources pointed out that Beijing and Islamabad on offer to negotiate new conventional submarines in fact has ended.

It is learned that the sale of submarines to Pakistan to prepare the transaction will be completed before the end of the year. This contract is expected shortly after the signing of the Palestinian side may order as many as six of the 041-type diesel-powered submarines (Wuhan shipyard and will be built at the Jiangnan Shipyard).

However, some analysts believe that, given China is now actively marketing its new S20 model developed to the international market (for the Chinese Navy submarine occupied 041 export variant) diesel-powered submarines, the final purchase of the Palestinian side is likely to be this model.

S20 diesel-powered submarines to China's naval equipment 041 (NATO called meta level) based development, and its length is 66 meters, 8 meters wide, 8.2 meters high, the surface displacement of 1,850 tons, underwater displacement 2,300 tons, a maximum speed of 18 knots, with 16 speed when navigating a maximum range of 8,000 nautical miles holding force 60 days, 38 members of the rated load.

S20 double shell design, maximum dive depth of 300 meters, with the Chinese navy occupied the 041 type is different is that the boat is not equipped with "air-independent propulsion (AIP)" (according to customer requirements to install).

According to data released by the Chinese side earlier, S20 submarines equipped with variable frequency underwater acoustic detection devices and towed sonar, the main weapons include torpedoes, mines and anti-ship missiles.

Although not described in detail S20 models equipped weapon, but it claims to provide torpedo according to customer requirements, rocket-propelled torpedo and anti-torpedo torpedoes.

In recent years, China has worked with the state-run Pakistan Karachi shipbuilding and machinery manufacturing company launched a number of cooperation, including the provision of F-22P frigates (in Chinese 053H3-based research) and Azimut level (in Chinese Type 037/2, based on research) stealth missile boats production technology.

Taking into account the actual capacity of Karachi shipbuilding and machinery manufacturing company, its future is likely to get new conventional submarine construction techniques from China.


Another report confirming the acquisition of 6 S-20s by Pak

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby merlin » 05 Apr 2014 18:13

Finally the Pakis may end up having more boats than us...

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 07 Apr 2014 07:57

Looks Like China’s Building a Giant New Warship

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/b88670ed99b

Now, David Axe basically lifted all of the info from CDF, and as a hack, he didn't do a very good job at it. He got the gist right though, these are the first photographic proof of a cruiser being in the pipelines for the PLAN. Rumors have been flying around about the 055 cruiser for quite a while now, and they've really picked up a lot of steam over the past couple of weeks, culminating in these photos. According to the rumors, it'll have a length of about 186 meters and a beam of 23 meters and construction will start early next year. The beam of the pictured structure measures exactly 23 meters wide on satellite imaging, which is in line with the recent rumors. The mock-up section measures 110 meters long, which is in line with the rumored 186 overall stern-to-bow length as well.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tushar_m » 13 Apr 2014 17:58

Japanese media: China to buy S400 to deter Taiwan , Japan and India

Japan’s “diplomatic scholar” magazine website on April 11 quoted a Russian commercial television reported that Putin has approved the sale to China of two to four sets of S-400 air defense missile system. The deal is already in negotiations among, if approved, would allow China to become the first foreign customers this advanced defense systems. At present, China has deployed many Soviet-era S-300 defense system.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Pratyush » 13 Apr 2014 18:35

Singha wrote:nice pic of a 051 and tico ship during some naval review
http://i.imgur.com/VvwcHtr.jpg


Why is the 051 flying the American flag.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 13 Apr 2014 20:57

China will use her own resources + those provided by Russia to keep two steps ahead of India (and the region in general).

Then she will supply one-step-ahead technologies to Pakistan to keep India in perpetual check.





I think Indians have to make a quick decision which way they want to go. The train is about to leave the station, India can make a huge difference - IF she wants to.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 14 Apr 2014 12:18

Pratyush wrote:
Singha wrote:nice pic of a 051 and tico ship during some naval review
http://i.imgur.com/VvwcHtr.jpg


Why is the 051 flying the American flag.


maybe they fly each other flag for such reviews. the tico also seems to have a red flag.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 14 Apr 2014 12:24

055 CG:

very interesting. but a ship this size is not needed to mount 100 SAMs. the KDX3 does more in about the same footprint as a DDG51. and with the new 052D UVLS, quad or tri packing SRSAMs is also feasible.

no I believe they would want to put hugely powerful zumwalt style next gen anti-air and ABM sensors on the ship and need the space for machinery, power gear, room for expansion later etc. perhaps new LRSAM based off s400 style techs. perhaps a huge salvo of heavy ASMs or even (shiver) ship-mounted DF-21D ASBM :twisted:

it will be a departure, not just a 052E upsizing of the same.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby DavidD » 15 Apr 2014 04:57

Singha wrote:055 CG:

very interesting. but a ship this size is not needed to mount 100 SAMs. the KDX3 does more in about the same footprint as a DDG51. and with the new 052D UVLS, quad or tri packing SRSAMs is also feasible.

no I believe they would want to put hugely powerful zumwalt style next gen anti-air and ABM sensors on the ship and need the space for machinery, power gear, room for expansion later etc. perhaps new LRSAM based off s400 style techs. perhaps a huge salvo of heavy ASMs or even (shiver) ship-mounted DF-21D ASBM :twisted:

it will be a departure, not just a 052E upsizing of the same.


The PLA in general prefers taking smaller steps, so I think the 055 will be designed to have the room to upgrade over the next couple of decades, but the initial ships should mostly use existing weapons systems except with greater numbers and perhaps some minor upgrades. In other words, I would expect the first ones of the class to be very much upsized 052D's. Even its propulsion will be the same, using QC-280, except the 055's should have 4 QC-280's in COGAG while the 052D's have 2 QC-280's in CODOG. I wouldn't even expect the first ships to be jam packed with VLS's. Even though it'll likely be a good bit bigger than the KDX3, it'll probably have the same number of VLS's and maybe only slightly more at most.

In summary, from all the rumors and pictures I can gather, I would expect the ship to be pretty revolutionary for the PLAN in terms of size (12kt standard) and external design (relatively stealthy hull with integrated mast), but not so much with everything else.

tushar_m

Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby tushar_m » 18 Apr 2014 09:55

2,000 PLA troops could invade Japanese islands Senkaku in 5 hours: WSJ


China has the ability to deploy 2,000 troops to the disputed Diaoyutai islands (Diaoyu to China, Senkaku to Japan) in just five hours using its four Zubr-class air-cushioned landing craft purchased from Russia, according to an Apr. 2 report in the Wall Street Journal.

Although Lieutenant General John Wissler, the commanding general of the US Marine Corps in Okinawa, says that the United States is capable of wiping out invading Chinese forces without mobilizing ground forces, Western military expert have begun to question whether Washington and Tokyo are capable of defending Okinawa from a potential PLA invasion.

A single Zubr-class landing craft can transport 500 soldiers and 150 tonnes of equipment.

The Bell Boeing MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, deployed by the US in Okinawa, is four times faster than the Zubr-class landing craft; however, it would still be unable to stop a full-scale Chinese invasion of the islands because a single tiltrotor aircraft is only able to carry 24 combat personnel and six tonnes of equipment, according to the paper.

According to the Tokyo-based Diplomat magazine, if the islands were to be taken by the PLA, the next likely step would be for China to launch another invasion against Okinawa.

James Fanell, director of the US Navy’s Intelligence and Information Operations told the magazine that the PLA Navy has been carrying out amphibious assault drills to practice taking territory in the East China Sea in a “short sharp war” against Japan aimed at reasserting their claim over Diaoyutai. If the uninhabited islands came under Chinese control, the PLA could then attack Okinawa to remove the facilities of the US Air Force and Marine Corps from the island, according to Fanell.

Major General Zhu Chenghu, dean of China’s National Defense University, told the state-run Global Times that statements from US secretary of defense Chuck Hagel and Wissler suggest that Washington has decided to side with Tokyo on the issue. “The threat of China has always been used by the United States as an execuse to deploy more of its troops to East Asia,” Zhu said.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 23 Apr 2014 04:56

Models:

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 23 Apr 2014 05:02

tushar_m wrote:2,000 PLA troops could invade Japanese islands Senkaku in 5 hours: WSJ


A single Zubr-class landing craft can transport 500 soldiers and 150 tonnes of equipment.


Wiki wrote: It can carry three main battle tanks (up to 150 tonnes), or ten armoured vehicles with 140 troops (up to 131 tonnes), or 8 armoured personnel carriers of total mass up to 115 tonnes, or 8 amphibious tanks or up to 500 troops (with 360 troops in the cargo compartment).





Major General Zhu Chenghu, dean of China’s National Defense University, told the state-run Global Times that statements from US secretary of defense Chuck Hagel and Wissler suggest that Washington has decided to side with Tokyo on the issue. “The threat of China has always been used by the United States as an execuse to deploy more of its troops to East Asia,” Zhu said


That must mean that an invasion of the island would result in a US response.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20453 » 23 Apr 2014 18:00

Damn those Zubrs are awesome, I think we should get around 8-10, It would allow for some very speedy deployment of large marine force combined with light and heavy armor. It is also well armed. Some of the weaponry can be replaced with Pinaka Mk-2, Skyshield etc.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2014 19:18

well I am not sure what kind of sea state it can work in. we are not trying to squat and harass people on 50 islands..so not sure what role they would fill.

instead if rapid resupply of the Andamans into shallow depth harbours is a need, Ro-Ro catamaran hulls like the now retired aussie Jervis Bay vessels look promise.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... refuel.jpg

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Khalsa » 25 Apr 2014 14:26

A must watch. Especially the part about the quality of officer ship training and realistic scenarios.
I won't tell you where it is.... View it all ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27152535

Hail the IMA :wink:

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 25 Apr 2014 20:29

well I am not sure what kind of sea state it can work in. we are not trying to squat and harass people on 50 islands..so not sure what role they would fill.

instead if rapid resupply of the Andamans into shallow depth harbours is a need, Ro-Ro catamaran hulls like the now retired aussie Jervis Bay vessels look promise.


If you carefully peel back the covers, you should find that India - in-order-not-to-provoke-EhmEhmEhm - had proposed "marines" and associated equipment, which included hovercrafts or hydrofoils.

I think the US supplied LPD came with a hovercraft. ???? (to lazy to google)

The proposed 4 LPDs are expected to host hovercrafts.

Irrespective of where they could be used, IMHO, India needs to project way beyond her "IOR" thinking. And, with the brand new dynamics (see Japanese CNS statement when he visited the Shivalik) it (projection) is a must.


On the catamaran topic, IN does have one, the Makar Class:

Image

Built by: "Gujarat govt company Alcock Ashdown Limited"


What I would have loved is India buying - it was sold as scrap - the Sea Shadow (just as the chinese did with the aircraft carrier):

Image


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