J&K News and Discussion-2011

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Dipanker
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Dipanker » 29 Apr 2011 03:17

menon s wrote:
i dont know Mr. Raina, Gandhi was from Andromeda Galaxy. Its Mr. raina Vs Gandhi ! 90% of Muslims in Kashmir were Hindus or Buddhists before, they converted. What was wrong in your society, that 90% of ur society, forsake your ancestral religion? was that fear? or you succumbed to fear? hard questions are always there, but we do not ask, because we do not want to hurt you, further. You talk as if KM`s are an alien race, no, they were one amongst you. If pain has come to you, remember it takes two to clap hands and not one. and thats what the responsible think of and, not the straw men.


may be the conversion was forced? historical accounts should vouche for that. Anyway can be discussed in the GDF, OT here.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Anindya » 29 Apr 2011 04:31

Bus driver dies at the hands of stone throwers....

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110429/jsp/frontpage/story_13918114.jsp

Srinagar, April 28: A driver of the Kashmir State Road Transport Corporation who crashed his vehicle during alleged stone-pelting by protesters died today after three days in hospital.

Police said Ghulam Jeelani Bhat, an employee of the government-run corporation, had tried to save polling personnel in his bus from stone throwers in Baramulla on April 25 when he lost control of the vehicle and met with the accident.

The bus was on its way from Rafiabad to Baramulla carrying the poll staff for the ongoing panchayat elections in Jammu and Kashmir. Separatists and militants have called for a boycott of the elections.

“While driving through the hail of stones, he (Bhat) lost control and rammed his bus into a nearby shop. He sustained serious injuries and was shifted to hospital where he battled for his life for three days,” a police spokesperson said.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Anindya » 29 Apr 2011 07:33

Not clear what this version of the Kashmir Committee will do...

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/kashmir-committee-has-backing-new-delhi/30671

Kashmir Committee has the backing of New-Delhi

SRINAGAR:With the policy and political groups in New Delhi shifting renewed focus on Jammu and Kashmir, the revival of Ram Jethmalani’s Kashmir Committee, according to well placed sources, has the backing of Central government and its mandate to reach out to the separatist camp and other groups has been discussed through back channels.

The Kashmir Committee constituted way back in 2002 to reach out to the separatists and other important constituencies has been revived on very specific grounds with equally specific agenda.

Though the Central government has distanced from the Jethmalani Committee, the sources said it was a precautionary statement to get separatist on board.

Sources in New-Delhi said that the logic behind revival of Kashmir Committee headed by noted jurist and BJP leader Ram Jethmalani is simple as the non-political Interlocutors appointed by the Centre have annoyed maximum stake-holders in Jammu and Kashmir which include separatists camp of Kashmir on one side and the right wing groups on the other side of Jawahar Tunnel in Jammu. But interestingly the opposition Peoples Democratic Party has been the new entrant to the long list of annoyed.

They said that Mufti’s of PDP are annoyed with both centre and its Interlocutors for reverberating autonomy mantra-they are allergic to. However, J&K Chief Minister Omar Abdullah’s statements that the Kashmir Committee has no locus standi as far as the Government is concerned should not be seen as ratification of the New-Delhi statement but it shows that he (Omar Abdullah) is also annoyed with New-Delhi on its eagerness to take Mufti’s on board.

A cursory look at the composition of the Kashmir Committee makes it easier to understand the nitty-gritty’s. Jethmalani enjoys a very good repute among separatist circles and on the other hand his political affiliation can certainly prevail upon the right wing groups of Jammu division. On the other hand Madhu Purnima Kishwar (senior Journalist) has earned a good name among PDP circles and in the year 2008 she was traced in many PDP conventions organized by the Party to propagate its Self Rule formula. Likewise noted journalist M J Akbar is being hold in high esteem by the civil society in Kashmir including the separatist camp.

However, the Committee in its recent reactionary statement said that it (Committee) has never sought the patronage of the government.

"We reiterate that the powers that be in New Delhi have had no role in activating the reconstituted Kashmir Committee as a parallel forum of a public dialogue with Jammu and Kashmir as mis-reported in a section of J&K newspapers," the Committee had said in a statement.

It had said they were supplementing the work of others seeking a viable solution to Kashmir issue.

The Kashmir Committee has never sought nor obtained the patronage of any government and its credibility is built entirely on its relationship with the people of Jammu and Kashmir and rest of India," the statement said. "This, in our view, constitutes its core strength.

However, the second part of the same statement was self explanatory in which the committee had said they are are supplementing the work of Interlocutors. “ The Committee is a group of concerned citizens supplementing the work of all others who have the same commitment and are engaged in pursuing the goal of Indo-Pak peace and an honourable and viable settlement of the Kashmir problem” it had said. The committee had also said that it did not see any conflict between the Central government appointed Interlocutors and the newly-revived Kashmir Committee. "Our press statement stated categorically that if their Report is found acceptable to the people of J&K, we would gladly lend it full support.

Though the statement quickly added "Their (Interlocutors) failure to establish rapport with a section of Kashmiri leadership is not the reason why we have revived the Kashmir Committee," it was, however, a more clear massage and the ambiguity in the first part was done away with in a very classical way.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Anindya » 29 Apr 2011 08:45

FWIW - http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110429/jsp/nation/story_13918119.jsp

Srinagar, April 28: The Jammu and Kashmir government today effectively withdrew its controversial order to issue Dogra certificates to all Jammu residents, apparently bowing to pressure from separatists.

Hurriyat hawk Syed Ali Shah Geelani had asked the Omar Abdullah-led government to annul the order by Saturday or face an agitation. The separatist leader said the certificate was a ploy to create a separate Jammu state and “a conspiracy against the Muslims of Jammu”.

The U-turn became clear today in a circular put out by the revenue and relief department. It is headed by Congress minister Raman Bhalla, whose party is part of the ruling coalition led by Omar’s National Conference.

The order has been carefully worded — the word used was “superseded”, not “revoked” — to prevent a backlash from the Dogras, who claim that the term “Dogra” does not denote any one ethnic group but all residents of Jammu, including Muslims.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 29 Apr 2011 08:53

^^ All well...Islam ab khatre mein nahi hain...victory for secularism!!!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 29 Apr 2011 15:36

I think it means all residents of J&K are eligible for the concession in physical measurements.

"In view of the amendment circulated by the MHA, relaxation in physical standards of height and chest measurement has been extended to all the permanent residents of Jammu and Kashmir,"


It can only be a good thing to allow all J&K denizens to enlist - what some may lack in physical measurements is made up for their zeal to defend their homeland. What's wrong in this ? Geelani may have got an ego massage, but facts on the ground are moving towards a nasty surprise for the separatists.

Please view this in the chain of events - return of KPs to the valley, huge turnouts in army recruitment rallies in the valley, followed by relaxation of physical measurements. A strategic trend towards people's participation in defence of our northern bulwark.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 29 Apr 2011 15:38

-delete double submit-

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby krithivas » 02 May 2011 10:39

Mass Graves in Kashmir, A Gift of Indian Democracy
http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com/2011/05/02/mass-graves-in-kashmir-a-gift-of-indian-democracy/
by Angana Chatterji (Madam Jalebi of India)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 02 May 2011 10:44

Jammu: Blast 'to avenge Osama' kills 1

One person was killed and three others were injured in a powerful blast inside a car in Udhampur town of Jammu region on Monday morning.

A senior police officer said the car had been parked near a roadside tea-stall on the strategic Jammu Srinagar [ Images ] national highway.

"A milk vendor was killed on the spot while three others, who were having tea at the stall, were injured in the blast. Senior police officers are already at the spot, collecting details," the officer said.

Some media reports indicated that militants triggered the blast in retaliation to the killing of Al Qaeda [ Images ] chief Osama bin Laden [ Images ] in Pakistan.

Wonder how did the "media reports" figure that this was related to osama? :-?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 04 May 2011 20:31

Just returned from a 10 day visit of kashmir valley and talked to a cross section of people.. my observations as under

a) people in general tired of militancy and stikes/hartal. highly critical of folks in old part of srinagar ( in and around hazratbal)..

b) totally disillusioned with pakis..( what can a bhooka nanga country give us!!)

c) dont want pakistan.. want good governance, jobs, roads, facilities like rest of india ..why cant srinagar be like Delhi :-)).

d) the security forces have a good grip on the situation ( talked to a cross section of CRP, BSF and RR folks)... still there is considerable partolling in small villages, farm lands, orchards.

e) saw girls/boys in great numbers heading to school in all parts of kashmir.. schools functioning well in remote villages as well.. Army goodwill schools doing well !!


I think the general sentiment is for good governance !!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 04 May 2011 20:32

i was in downtown Srinagar on day osama was killed and there was no reaction at all.. the city was normal..

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Sachin » 04 May 2011 20:43

manjgu wrote:I think the general sentiment is for good governance !!

I am worried more on the "general sentiments" of politicians, secular brigades, peace-niks who would continue to see problems where none exists and then come up with some ridiculous game plan. It is these vested interests group which may do more harm in the long run.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby SSridhar » 05 May 2011 09:58

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Sabotage in Kashmir
Every week there were almost one or two incidents of sabotage in Jammu and Kashmir State by persons coming from Pakistan but fortunately these incidents have not done any very grievous injury, Mr. Nehru said in the Rajya Sabha on May 4. Mr. Nehru added: “The atmosphere that these incidents produce and the attitude of the people who send them to do it is very deplorable.” The Prime Minister said that these activities had been brought to the notice of the Pakistan Government on several occasions. Asked about the steps being taken to prevent such incidents, Mr. Nehru said that the Kashmir Government was active and had arrested some of the saboteurs.

From The Hindu dated May 5, 1961

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jagga » 05 May 2011 16:56

UAE issues 'stapled visa' to PoK residents including its PM
The United Arab Emirates has begun issuing "stapled visas" to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir residents, including its "Prime Minister" Sardar Attique Ahmed, a media report said today. The practice of issuing "stapled visas" is new and previously visas were stamped as usual on the passports, the Pakistan Observer newspaper reported today. PoK "Prime Minister" Sardar Attique Ahmed Khan, who holds a Pakistani diplomatic passport, was issued a stapled visit visa by the UAE Embassy in Islamabad on Tuesday, the report said.

China had sparked a diplomatic row with India last year by issuing stapled visas to residents of Jammu and Kashmir.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ramana » 05 May 2011 20:38

X-Post...
We are not looking at the significance of OBL, HUM, LeT, OBL safehouse ownership by HUM, and location of Abbotabad to LOC. I think from 2005 he was the guiding light of Kashmir terrorists. I bet Daoud Gilani/DCH is also linked to him throught LeT. We should relook at Mumbai trian blasts, 26/11 and other spectacular acts of terrorism. He could also be the brain behind Ind Mujahideen.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby wig » 05 May 2011 20:53

Hurriyat Conference's Syed Ali Shah Geelani calls for funeral prayers for Osama bin Laden
Hardline Hurriyat Conference leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani has asked people to hold funeral prayers on Friday for Osama bin Laden, the founder of al-Qaida who was shot dead in Pakistan on May 2 by a US team.

Geelani has appealed to Imams and people to hold funeral prayers in absentia for bin Laden after Friday prayers tomorrow afternoon, a Hurriyat spokesman said in a statement.

Terming him a 'martyr', Geelani said bin Laden was not just one person but "he represented a thinking which opposed foreign occupational forces".

"His heart bore the pain of the entire Muslim Ummah (community). He gave up his life of comfort to fight for their cause," the statement said.

The separatist leader said he wanted to participate in the funeral prayers but he has been placed under house arrest by the police since early this morning.

Geelani appealed to people to pray for the liberation of Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan from the occupation of forces.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 169912.cms

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby negi » 05 May 2011 23:41

^ Wonder where are the Chankians hiding , some of them claimed Geelani was India's agent. :roll:

And we have IA talking about capability to pull off an Abottabad like mission. :rotfl:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby anupmisra » 05 May 2011 23:44

negi wrote:^ Wonder where are the Chankians hiding , some of them claimed Geelani was India's agent. :roll:


Sure, isnt that what this is all about? Geelani praying for OBL puts the entire hurriyat and their movement in shame. What better agent can one ask for?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby AnimeshP » 05 May 2011 23:46

negi wrote:^ Wonder where are the Chankians hiding , some of them claimed Geelani was India's agent. :roll:


I don't think anyone called him an Indian agent ... what people did call him was a useful idiot ... and he is living up to that reputation with this call ...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby negi » 05 May 2011 23:47

Going by that lahori logic Pakistan too is a country full of useful idiots onlee. Someone rightly said jo Lahore mein ...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Mahendra » 05 May 2011 23:49

negi wrote:^ Wonder where are the Chankians hiding , some of them claimed Geelani was India's agent. :roll:

And we have IA talking about capability to pull off an Abottabad like mission. :rotfl:


Geelanahi( with due disrespect for those who get takleef due to name twisting) is doing exactly what we want. In the eyes of the Western Mango people he is discrediting the Cash-me-here Phreedom Struggle by associating it with Ek Goti wala Sheikh Osama. The bleeding heart fake liberals in the west will now think twice before courting this idiot.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby negi » 06 May 2011 00:01

Mahdi the mofo in question actually wants to internationalise Kashmir, basically trying to summon the Ummah in the region in the name of threat to the Islamic world by projecting Osama as a leader. It is wrong to think that this will in any way descredit the Azadi movement (there is nothing to descredit for it only enjoys traction amongst the folks who are anti-India).The West has no noble intentions ; the fact is Unkil and it's munnas will obviously oblige if they get a chance to interfere in Kashmir and that is what Geelani wants . I for one simply don't undesrstand the fact that, if India wants to really solve the issue why cannot it dispose off this cretin first ? If a state cannot take care of just one individual HTF am I supposed to believe what it claims to be able to do inside TSP.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby wig » 06 May 2011 07:17

Army lodges protest on hotline
Pak troops fire RPG , MMGs to give cover to intruders
JAMMU, May 5: Desperate to push militants after the killing of four top Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) commanders in Kishtwar and Banihal including divisional commanders of the outfit, Abu Moosa, Pakistan Army today resorted to heavy arms firing at several forward Indian posts of Krishna Ghati sector in Poonch district in an attempt to push militants into this side of the Line of Control (LoC).

Pakistan Army used Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPGs) and Medium Machine Guns (MMGs) to target Indian positions, prompting retaliation from the Indian side to neutralize the militants and ensure that there was no infiltration.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Venkarl » 06 May 2011 11:18

Bher ij Menon birather?

Image

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby negi » 06 May 2011 19:44

Geelani losing feel of people's pulse Omar
Obviously for he has Omar's marbles in his hands.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhishek_sharma » 07 May 2011 15:27

American commentary on recent events in J&K

Another strong point is their systematic review of previous legislative changes involving Kashmir going back to the early 1950s and to the days of the legendary Kashmir leader, Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah. This has equipped them to comment in detail on both legal and symbolic measures that India might undertake to improve its political relations with Kashmir.


Americans want 1950-style autonomy.

The weakness of this effort, on the other hand, is that their process only covers at best one of the
three channels that need to be brought into the process: their dialogue with residents of Kashmir who are already willing to accept being part of India. The interlocutors’ mandate in principle covers the second of these channels, the “separatists” in Indian Kashmir. Members of the Hurriyet Conference, however, have publicly refused to talk to the interlocutors. At least one of the interlocutors had had contact with some of the separatist leaders in the past, but the public refusal makes it difficult to use any insights that might be gleaned through informal conversations.


The prem for Hurriyat-rats remains very strong. They should join Geelani's prayers for OBL.

Image

At this point, it does not appear that the Indian and Pakistani governments’ decision to resume talks will re-launch the back channel talks on Kashmir which in the past has been the most productive venue for discussions


It has been "most productive" due to these decisions.

And of course this will be a strictly Indian effort, so Pakistan’s views will not have been taken into account, nor will Pakistan have had any chance to be briefed on their report.


kitne dukh ki baat hai?

Long-time observers of Kashmir {Pontification} argue that after the traumatic developments of last summer, people in the Valley are looking for ways to move forward toward more acceptable political arrangements. But they also caution that further incidents such as those that sparked last summer’s clashes could again inflame the situation. It is important in this context that the Indian government not again delude itself {lectures} into thinking that the quieter atmosphere means that meaningful steps are no longer urgently needed.

The focus on subregional and local governance {autonomy or better governance?} that the interlocutors seem to have adopted could be among those meaningful steps, but they are unlikely by themselves to set the stage for a settlement. What is needed are measures to give voice and visibility to the constituencies that are currently being left out of the discussion. {Pakistan and Hurriyat}

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 07 May 2011 20:32

Negi.. Omar may not be off the mark with his analysis that Geelani losing pulse of people... with the limited interaction i had during my visit to kashmir.. right from taxi driver to tourist guide to our driver to govt official in gulmarg to the houseboat owner etc.. all were critical of hurrirats and geelani in particular... i think there is a feeling of enough is enough.. fatigue .... people want to get on with life...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby negi » 08 May 2011 01:18

Boss those are anecdotal references at best; go to any place in India taxi drivers or workers as usual do whine about the establishment or other inane things; in any case Omar is no better than goons in Hurriyat and JKLF , things have only worsened under his tenure .

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Kashi » 08 May 2011 07:14

This is my first post here (apart from the introduction in thr newbie section), so apologies if I sound naive or irrational or both.

Last year we saw an eruption of violence in J&K, deliberate and provocative attacks on the security forces leading them to retaliate and in the process few thugs lost their lives. While it was later established that many of those were junkies bribed with cash and coke, there were plenty others who were educated and employed in government and private concerns countrywide, who wholeheartedly pelted stones at the security forces and once the matters heated up, they bolted, went back to their jobs, either pretending that all was well or happily gloating that they landed one on an SDRE constable.

All this talk of integrating these vermin into the mainstream falls flat based on not-so-isolated cases of such cowards. My point is that is it possible to source the data on those who participated in those incidents and circulate their personal details to government and private concerns around the country, so that if and when they do appear for a job interview, they can be identified and told to bugger off.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Anindya » 09 May 2011 17:25

From http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Why-Pandits-arent-returning-to-roots/articleshow/8201485.cms

Why Pandits aren't returning to roots

The Pandits don't believe Kashmiri Muslims want Pandits back.

The answer to their crisis lies in the reasons given for their 1990 exodus. Ask a Kashmiri of any hue why Pandits left, and there's a stock reply: "Pandits fled because of Jagmohan. He scared them. Otherwise there was no problem. They were tricked by Jagmohan." This statement is recorded in books and newspapers and mouthed in TV studios.

The Pandits, though, will tell you another story: of murders and village loudspeakers issuing threats. Jagmohan is rarely the central figure that Kashmiri Muslim makes him out to be.

Strangely enough, almost every Kashmiri also knows at least one Pandit family that was threatened or targeted; at least one neighbour who got shelter from militants; one Pandit colleague who was escorted to the bus-stand so that he could flee to safety. In Srinagar, everyone also knows at least one person who bought a house worth Rs 50 lakh for Rs 15 lakh; one person who acquired an established hotel or petrol pump for a pittance from Pandits.

In rural Kashmir, it's easy to identify Pandit dwellings. They are invariably large and always burnt. From Tral to Tangdhar a trail of empty shells stand lifeless, mocking the statements asking Pandits to return. Their exile created a vacuum that got filled. Before Lassa Kaul, the director of AIR in Kashmir was murdered, 70% of the staff was Kashmiri Pandit. Today, it's 1%. The same is true of other professions. In Madan's village, he still has 160 kanal of orchards. Now he contracts them at a rate he doesn't decide.

"To say 'come back' and also imply that it was our fault that we left, shows insincerity. If Kashmiri leaders are honest, they'd say, 'We're sorry. We regret shouting from loudspeakers asking you to leave your daughters behind.' Until this happens, I'll not return," says Madan's neighbour, an engineer, who fled with his five-month son in a quilt.

Other Pandits agree. Says one, "I thought of returning a few years ago. My neighbours welcomed me. There was TV crew. We hugged, cried and drank noon chai. It was like old times. Then the TV crew left and my neighbour asked calmly, 'Will you sell me your house?"

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 10 May 2011 09:42

If KPs are given arms training and organised into militas, they'll have more confidence. If they are given an opportunity to settle in rural areas with natural defences instead of their old urban dwellings, they'll have a better chance at survival. Ultimately, Indians need to summon the Angad-like will to reclaim these lands, plant your feet and let nothing budge you.

Every loudspeaker threat can be met with confiscation of the whole apparatus. Every mob of assaulters can be met with booby-traps. Every fidayeen can be met with snipers.

As I posted in the strategy thread, all these can happen only if the central importance of land to national survival is understood by the Indian populace.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby anupmisra » 11 May 2011 04:26

I came across this article, which lists the history of Dogra rule in J&K. Hundred Years of Dogra Rule. What caught my eye was this extract:

A major event of Maharaja Ranbir Singh's reign which could have changed the whole course of history of Kashmir was the collective approach of Kashmir Muslims to him for being taken back into the Hindu fold. They pleaded that they had been focibly converted to Islam against their will and were longing to re-embrace their ancestral faith. Ranbir Singh sought the guidance of Swamy Dayanand Saraswati, the founder of Arya Samaj, in the matter. Swami Dayand advised him that he could take them back in Hinduism after performing certain rites.

The proposed return of Kashmiri Muslims to their original faith was not to the liking of short sighted Kashmiri Pundits who were having a hey day since the return of Dogra Hindu rule. They tried to dissuade the Maharaja. When they found him adamant they took to a subterfuge. They filled some boats with stones and brought them midstream before Maharaja's palace on the Jhelum. They threatened him that they would commit suicide by drowning along with the sinking boats as a protest against his decision to take back Muslims into Hindu fold and that he would be then guilty of "Brahm Hatya" i.e. murder of Brahmins.


Question: Is this a fact?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby svinayak » 11 May 2011 04:37

Yes, I know a Kashmiri Wanchoo who said this was the case. At least 50 percent of the current KM wouls have been Hindus by now

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby anupmisra » 11 May 2011 06:26

ManishH wrote:If KPs are given arms training and organised into militas, they'll have more confidence. If they are given an opportunity to settle in rural areas with natural defences instead of their old urban dwellings, they'll have a better chance at survival. Ultimately, Indians need to summon the Angad-like will to reclaim these lands, plant your feet and let nothing budge you. Every loudspeaker threat can be met with confiscation of the whole apparatus. Every mob of assaulters can be met with booby-traps. Every fidayeen can be met with snipers. As I posted in the strategy thread, all these can happen only if the central importance of land to national survival is understood by the Indian populace.


Are recommending a civil war in J&K?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 11 May 2011 10:17

Nope. It's self-defence - just like VDCs but with better training and arms.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Sanku » 11 May 2011 12:00

ManishH wrote:Nope. It's self-defence - just like VDCs but with better training and arms.


You have my vote.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Dilbu » 11 May 2011 12:25

ManishH wrote:Nope. It's self-defence - just like VDCs but with better training and arms.

They will have to do it themselves then. Indian state will not provide training because then that will be encouraging a civil war. Or let them join territorial guards etc to get the training.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Sanku » 11 May 2011 12:29

Dilbu wrote:
ManishH wrote:Nope. It's self-defence - just like VDCs but with better training and arms.

They will have to do it themselves then. Indian state will not provide training because then that will be encouraging a civil war. Or let them join territorial guards etc to get the training.


Why? Salwa Judum is one successful example of how state can allow self defence by citizen militias rather than force a large scale outflow under terror threat.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 11 May 2011 13:04

Dilbu - we have to recognize that what is "They" today will be "Us" tomorrow. Today, "They" is KPs; tomorrow "They" shall be Gujratis/Rajasthanis/Panjabis. The constitution has bound the state to defend it's loyal citizens - of all religions. VDCs are a known precedent and fully constitutional, however not yet implemented widely in the valley. I'll call your attention to "Minutemen" who won USA her independence.

Everytime, they face a threat or hesitate to venture back into their homeland, Kashmiri loyalists should derive inspiration from figures like Maj Gen S K Razdan.

I suspect you heard the term "Civil War" from enemy psy-ops. These are basically a category of bluff-making terms that MA Jinnah would use; and shouldn't flutter us in this day. An appropriate steely counter is "Civil Defence".

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 11 May 2011 15:52

anupmisra wrote:I came across this article, which lists the history of Dogra rule in J&K. Hundred Years of Dogra Rule. What caught my eye was this extract:

A major event of Maharaja Ranbir Singh's reign which could have changed the whole course of history of Kashmir was the collective approach of Kashmir Muslims to him for being taken back into the Hindu fold. They pleaded that they had been focibly converted to Islam against their will and were longing to re-embrace their ancestral faith. Ranbir Singh sought the guidance of Swamy Dayanand Saraswati, the founder of Arya Samaj, in the matter. Swami Dayand advised him that he could take them back in Hinduism after performing certain rites.

The proposed return of Kashmiri Muslims to their original faith was not to the liking of short sighted Kashmiri Pundits who were having a hey day since the return of Dogra Hindu rule. They tried to dissuade the Maharaja. When they found him adamant they took to a subterfuge. They filled some boats with stones and brought them midstream before Maharaja's palace on the Jhelum. They threatened him that they would commit suicide by drowning along with the sinking boats as a protest against his decision to take back Muslims into Hindu fold and that he would be then guilty of "Brahm Hatya" i.e. murder of Brahmins.


Question: Is this a fact?


Not sure about this particular incident, but KP's in the past have been responsible for shooting themselves in the foot by disallowing converted Muslims to return back to Dharmic faith. There is a famous story of a Kashmiri King who was not allowed back into the SD fold and he famously became Islamic and brought pain and terror to KP community.
I don't think it was the economic factor that made them resist the re-conversion.


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