J&K News and Discussion-2011

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chanakyaa
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby chanakyaa » 22 Aug 2016 07:26

And, in the meantime, may be some low level bureaucrat can respond to OIC's comments the same way President of the President of the Philippines Rodrigo Duterte responded to the UN when he found the organization was urging the Philippines to stop executing and killing people linked to drug business and threatened that “state actors” could be punished.

‘I don't give a sh*t about them’: Philippine president threatens to leave ‘stupid’ UN

Calling the UN “inutile"
“I don't give a sh*t about them,” he added. “They are the ones interfering. You do not just go out and give a sh*tting statement against a country.” :rotfl:


On a serious note, peace in the valley should be a top priority. I was lucky to spend some time in Srinagar. Left valley on Saturday, the day after Wani was taken out and before the curfew shutdown the city which hasn't recovered yet. It was tough to walk around the street where CRPF jawans were ambushed in June. Hope things recover soon.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Gagan » 22 Aug 2016 08:18

The first thing about tackling islamism is to lose political correctness & start calling a spade a spade.
This will quickly put the baddies and their support system, and fence sitters on the defensive & dispel much energy of theirs on proper image development. They'll start becoming politically correct for a change from displaying & feigning belligerence

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby TKiran » 22 Aug 2016 22:54

Gurus, have you ever heard the voices, logic, tactics of 'aazaadi', " political solution " elsewhere in India, which was whole heartedly supported by our PM? What is the difference between J&K jihadis and JAC of Telangana, what is the difference between the argument of "Andhrollu dochukuntunnaru" and "Indian Armed Forces are occupying our land"??

If my post is inappropriate, please let me know, I will delete this post.

My angst is only against Modiji's principled stand in creating Telangana, and hypocrisy in dealing with the situation in J&K. Why PM Modi could not take a similar stand in creating Telangana, what he is doing now with the state of J&K?

Just showing the mirror.... Sorry if I offended anyone.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ranjan.rao » 23 Aug 2016 04:18

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 818366.cms

SRINAGAR: A lean, bearded man looks around furtively before shoving under the back seat of a beat-up Maruti 800 an AK 47 rifle and a 9 mm automatic pistol. He then takes out his ID-card from his wallet and slips it inside his sock. "Bahut khatra hai, saheb (It's very dangerous for us)," he says. He is a cop in the J&K Police and like the thousands of others like him, he is afraid of being the target of mobs, who want them to join their cause, and militants, who want the men in khaki to resign.
In violence-hit Kashmir, if anyone is on the retreat, it is the J&K Police. An SSP posted in south Kashmir told TOI on Monday that there are reports of attacks on policemen coming from across the disturbed valley. "But what is worse is that nobody is supporting us. The government has abandoned us," the officer said. "Everybody is legitimising the voice of separatists. In the 1990s, the police force had collapsed. There are entrenched interests that want the same situation again now." The officer added, "Lots of money has been pumped into creating this present situation, perhaps hundreds of crores. And then you have separatists identifying brave police officers. We are sitting ducks. But the question to be asked is, who is allowing this?"
Sources in the department said that houses of dozens of policemen have been burnt down and that almost every family, especially those of officers, has received threats. An officer with the CID said, "Our family is our biggest weakness. The CRPF and Army can fight without any fear here as their loved ones are safe back home. But we have ours here. And our enemies know that."
The CID officer added, "In the 2010 violence, 48 houses of cops were razed. Over 1,400 were injured. It's happening all over again. A head constable was going home to Sopore and was stopped by a group of men in Wadora. They found his uniform in his bag and broke both his hands and legs."
Policemen say that demoralization and fear runs deep in the force of about 70,000. The 30,000-odd special police officers (SPO), who are paid a measly stipend of Rs 6,000 a month are in a far more precarious position. They have very little training and are given no arms.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ShauryaT » 23 Aug 2016 05:34

chanakyaa wrote:On a serious note, peace in the valley should be a top priority.
I am inclined to say, this time let it be another script. Crush them. See from a military perspective, this is not a challenge. J&K police can do the job. The real issue here is to face the Pakistani idea of two nation theory. It is this idea that needs to be crushed. Let the nation rise to this challenge and face this issue head on. The BJP should not back down on this issue. In fact they need to stroke nationalist narrative and be clear that this is a challenge, which needs to be defeated. Rooted in the tenets of an exclusivist Islam, if not crushed will only go on to become a gangrene and some day some leadership will come and say, let us cut off our head too and save the body!! I do not want India to be defeated once again. Remove the pellet guns, let them face bullets. What are we waiting for, arrest the traitors. Let the place burn. Remove article 370 and let it burn a little more. Then bring in severe punitive measures for acts against unity and sovereignty and work on changing the demographics of the place. GoI needs to proceed with clarity of purpose and a clear set of objectives.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ShauryaT » 23 Aug 2016 05:39

TKiran wrote:Gurus, have you ever heard the voices, logic, tactics of 'aazaadi', " political solution " elsewhere in India, which was whole heartedly supported by our PM? What is the difference between J&K jihadis and JAC of Telangana, what is the difference between the argument of "Andhrollu dochukuntunnaru" and "Indian Armed Forces are occupying our land"??

If my post is inappropriate, please let me know, I will delete this post.

My angst is only against Modiji's principled stand in creating Telangana, and hypocrisy in dealing with the situation in J&K. Why PM Modi could not take a similar stand in creating Telangana, what he is doing now with the state of J&K?

Just showing the mirror.... Sorry if I offended anyone.

TKiran: I am not a Modi Bhakt. But, there is a 6 million mile difference between Telangana and J&K. One deals with a two nation theory aided and manipulated by an enemy terrorist state. The other is an administrative division of a union, to create a province/state to act as a distinct federal unit of India. Regardless of one's agreement or not with the Telangana issue, there is simply no comparison in terms of narratives, demographics, ideas, issues and geo-politics.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 23 Aug 2016 05:51


Sources in the department said that houses of dozens of policemen have been burnt down and that almost every family, especially those of officers, has received threats. An officer with the CID said, "Our family is our biggest weakness. The CRPF and Army can fight without any fear here as their loved ones are safe back home. But we have ours here. And our enemies know that."
The CID officer added, "In the 2010 violence, 48 houses of cops were razed. Over 1,400 were injured. It's happening all over again. A head constable was going home to Sopore and was stopped by a group of men in Wadora. They found his uniform in his bag and broke both his hands and legs."
Policemen say that demoralization and fear runs deep in the force of about 70,000. The 30,000-odd special police officers (SPO), who are paid a measly stipend of Rs 6,000 a month are in a far more precarious position. They have very little training and are given no arms.


Looks like we are in a grim situation in the valley and not sure how we will come out of this mess.

All the chickens are coming to roost due to the dilly-dallying of all these years when we could have taken firm and decisive steps like how Shaurya-saar has mentioned.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ShauryaT » 23 Aug 2016 06:54

Baikul wrote:Not wishing to sound like a doom mongerer, it seems to me that the situation in J&K is as bad as at anytime I can remember in the past 25 years. I hope the powers that be are conducting an appraisal and evolving a strategic, long term response. .....<snip>

Time for a separate discussion on BR on a long term J&K strategy? Quick or long term, peaceful or bloody, are there aspects of our approach that need to be changed?
Baikul: One cannot be a serious observer of J&K and say situation is as bad as at anytime/25 yrs. Not true by a long shot. The ONLY thing that has changed is some were lulled into believing that because general violence has gone down, the IA has done a marvelous job in subduing the gun toting dudes, multiple elections have been held and Pakistan's influence and control has been check mated, most were lulled into believing that the "idea" of the 2NT has been overcome and Kashmiris can be won over through "progress" - but not assimilation.

Many close observers of J&K have warned about the situation long before Wani met his 72. Let us accept, that this time the Pakistani state is indeed not a player in the current disturbances, for they have been defeated as a state player. If we do that, the issue becomes more clear. What is it? It is the idea of the two nation theory, fueled by the Islamist narrative. It is this narrative that India has to defeat.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ranjan.rao » 23 Aug 2016 06:55

^^ The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is now..I dont think it is still too late, we must abolish article 370 along with this unrest only..else we will again be playing a catch up game in Kashmir with Pakistan. Last 10 years have highlighted that status quo is not the solution, we gave peace lot of chances, and long time and here we have a generation that is thankless of the opportunities India provides to them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sanjaykumar » 23 Aug 2016 06:58

Population expulsion or exchanges may work for backward people like Chinese, Soviets or dare I say Christians. It is fundamentally barbaric and has no place in the Indian ethos.

However unless Kashmiri pandits secure their ancestral lands, Article 370 stands abrogated as kasmiri Muslims have disqualified themselves from the bargain. Already there is a lot of civil migration to Srinagar in service and small trades.

The valley may be very attractive for the Dogras to be repopulate. They certainly can not be objected to being residents of j&k.


However it is unacceptable to be blinding or killing young people who are protesting without arms.

Part of the problem in Kashmir is these peoples rang ( or at least some minority of them). Indians have this infatuation with it or no one would give a rodent's posterior for some hill primitives burning down their communities. BTW I think some of the properties burned down in the 1968 Chicago riots are still as they were then. Perhaps there is a lesson in how the US handles riots.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby chetak » 23 Aug 2016 12:22

sum wrote:

Sources in the department said that houses of dozens of policemen have been burnt down and that almost every family, especially those of officers, has received threats. An officer with the CID said, "Our family is our biggest weakness. The CRPF and Army can fight without any fear here as their loved ones are safe back home. But we have ours here. And our enemies know that."
The CID officer added, "In the 2010 violence, 48 houses of cops were razed. Over 1,400 were injured. It's happening all over again. A head constable was going home to Sopore and was stopped by a group of men in Wadora. They found his uniform in his bag and broke both his hands and legs."
Policemen say that demoralization and fear runs deep in the force of about 70,000. The 30,000-odd special police officers (SPO), who are paid a measly stipend of Rs 6,000 a month are in a far more precarious position. They have very little training and are given no arms.


Looks like we are in a grim situation in the valley and not sure how we will come out of this mess.

All the chickens are coming to roost due to the dilly-dallying of all these years when we could have taken firm and decisive steps like how Shaurya-saar has mentioned.



aren't the J&K police all state subjects??

so, now they want the "Indian" forces to face the brunt while they continue to draw salary and benefits??

A number of these "policemen" are jehadi pasand and relay info in real time.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby CRamS » 23 Aug 2016 21:35

ShauryaT wrote:
Let us accept, that this time the Pakistani state is indeed not a player in the current disturbances, for they have been defeated as a state player . If we do that, the issue becomes more clear. What is it? It is the idea of the two nation theory, fueled by the Islamist narrative. It is this narrative that India has to defeat.


You are so wrong about this, and I mean no dis-respect, but you are allowing your dis-taste for ModiJi to color your judgement. TSP has NOT been defeated as a state player in the valley. TSP, out of its strategic orientation curbed its spectacular Fidayeen attacks, of the kind we saw prior to 2005. And the reason being that those attacks have not dented India's staying power in the valley, and hence the attacks were hurting TSP's Muslim brothers more than anything else. But make no mistake, TSP has all the valley politicians, every one of them by their b@lls. Not one has the guts to raise a little finger against TSP even as they rant and rail against Indian govt. TSP can up the ante anytime, and use the "indigenous uprising" cover BS. General Ata Hasnnian said it succinctly in one of Burka's (another useful idiot in the hands of TSP) reports. What TSP is doing now is orchestrating a Palestinian intifida type uprising with straregic use of terror. Scores of teen age stone pelters storm a a CRPF cordon, some are equipped with AK-47s do the firing using the stone pelters as cover, terrorist gangs are used to strorm police stations and bunkers, LeT cadres are used to stage the occasional spectacular attack against Indian army, and above all, the PR campaign orchestrated by TSP against the Indians state is in full throttle. So how can anyone, least of all, someone as well informed as you can claim that TSP has no role in the current crisis is beyond me. Orchestrating all of this needs a central leadership and funds and state machinery: all of which is provided by TSP. (And who knows how much fake currency TSP is pumping in because it itself is so broke).

Now, what makes the current crisis very acute form India's PoV is this. A BJP govt in the center. TSP has very skilfully co-opted Indian opposition into taking the Kashmir crisis into mainstream India. Note how the opposition traitors are virtually singing TSP's song about "ModiJi blaming TSP" when our own house is not in order. Or the scum bag Aakar patel type traitors propagating hate against Indian army. Or useful idiots like Burka and Thappad giving credence to this "indigenous uprising" nonsense. Fact of the matter, as I said, is that no valley politicians, mainstream or Paki stooges, can do any talking without taking into account TSP's interests of grabbing the valley. Thats why when opposition morons in India say "internal dialogue" with all "stake holders", I laugh, because essentially what they are saying is that TSP is a stakeholder.

But your second point is absolutely spot on, namely, what is going on in the valley is the poisonous 2-nation Isalmist ideolgy playing out. But with the entire opposition in India determined to bring BJP down, no matter what damage this does to India, there is no way, none in today's India to see what is going on in the valley as Islamic Jihad. In other words, there is so much hate for BJP that this Kashmir crisis is a God send for those traitors to keep ModiJi on the back foot. And I might add that BJP since the time it too power in 2014 has not been able to counterattack out of fear that opposition will further up the ante, leading to a civil war like situation derailing ModiJi's development agenda. BJP's strategy seems to be to absorb the punches thrown at it by opposition, who use every little incident to paint BJP as a fascist govt bent on throttling free speech, Muslims, Dalits etc. In such an environment, BJP can only do so much to highlight the Islamist nature of the crisis in Kashmir.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Prem » 23 Aug 2016 21:57

Watch the Sajjad Lone interview with Bdutt where he blames her for inciting the people. He told her , nothing is spontaneous in eruption and that every demo planned. TSP's and TNT fuel the Valley JIhadi.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Gagan » 24 Aug 2016 09:46

Another problem in J&K is the absence of real leadership.
Omar abdulla, Mehbooba, just like buddhu, are products of dynasties, went to elite schools, raised in a protected environment, not completely grassroots, & probably surrounded by chamchas.

A real neta who has risen through the ranks, knows his subjects intimately, has deep roots, and this drives his / her actions. This bunch in power in J&K by round robin are a clueless lot I must say. Much violence could have been prevented if there was a truly capable leadership there

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Yagnasri » 24 Aug 2016 09:51

http://www.opindia.com/2016/08/4-reacti ... d-kashmir/ Intersting take. There is no doubt a planned attempt to do things against NM and GOI.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 24 Aug 2016 18:02

a) this is a religious war being fought in the garb a political dispute.
b) NM should address the nation and tell that talks in J&K will NOT be about 1) redrawing boundaries except incorporating POK into india 2) if people are not able to find solution to their greivances then they are welcome to migrate to the heaven next door or continue protest peacefully. Violent protest and guns will be met with guns 3) GOI should seriously look to improve job oppurtunities in whole of J&K and focus on governance. 4) Hurriyat has no role in the talks unless they accept to talk under the boundaries set by the Indian constitution.

I sincerely believe that Hindus dont know how to handle the Muslims.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 24 Aug 2016 18:04

i am surprised that no commentator has talked about role of mosques in the current impasse. They have been used to inflame the population by playing poisonous songs and spreading hatred against Kufr HIndus. This in my opinion is the real problem. The Pakis tried guns and failed ..so this is a new tactic of using mosques to inflame passions and ignite revolt.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby nirav » 24 Aug 2016 18:26

J&K CM has pardoned quite a few "youths" for stone throwing ..

Im wondering how exactly are these "protests" and "stone throwing" incidents taking place.

no mob in its right mind would dare take on the bolis the way they are doing in kashmir.let alone throw stones at them.

why arent the stone throwers being arrested and held indefinitely ?

Also, the age old crowd control measure, the lathi charge is conspicous by its absence.
it shouldnt be difficult to intercept these assholes and then give them a lesson of lathi charge 101
Image

Image

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby habal » 24 Aug 2016 19:28

the last time these JK 'police' did a lathi charge was on hapless non-muslim students of NIT.
they had no issues beating them kids shouting 'bharat mata ki jai' senseless.


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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 24 Aug 2016 20:07

also very interesting to know that whenever a pellet injury patient is interviewed the stock answer is ... i was a innocent bystander who got hit by brutal indian forces..i was only performing aarti and cooking biryani for the stone pelters !!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ShauryaT » 24 Aug 2016 21:31

CRamS wrote:you are allowing your dis-taste for ModiJi to color your judgement.
A few corrections first. I have NO distaste for our PM. If it were so, I would have no reservations in expressing them. My critiques on policy have NOTHING to do with the current person occupying the chair or the party or the ideology. What I can be accused of is not appreciating enough on what this government does but focus more on critiquing things I do not like and hence some like you may feel, I have a distaste. This is an incorrect read. My personal political preferences are largely personal. Meaning, just because I critique a certain policy, has no bearing on who I support politically. You have no idea, where my political preferences are and have been and who and how I support whom politically. I just choose largely not to speak about it or let that view cloud my judgement to the degree I can control. Hope you can respect that choice.

TSP has NOT been defeated as a state player in the valley. TSP, out of its strategic orientation curbed its spectacular Fidayeen attacks, of the kind we saw prior to 2005. And the reason being that those attacks have not dented India's staying power in the valley, and hence the attacks were hurting TSP's Muslim brothers more than anything else.
Your view is unappreciative of what the IA has achieved by way of its security grid on the border and by the RR in the valley. It is also unappreciative of what diplomats and politicians have achieved through the LoC cease fire and the TSP pledge not to use territories under their control for terrorism. It also fails to recognize the inability of Pakistan to continue with the older approaches as its policies have back fired on them badly, their army mired in controlling internal snakes. I see this as a defeat for TSP in the valley as a "state" apparatus. The above is not a reflection of TSP intent but their on the ground current capabilities in Kashmir. The separatist theory lives on - independent of TSP state actions due to expansion of the Islamist ideologies.

As a reference for my assertion, below are some snippets from a paper by Lt. Gen Syed Ata Hasnain the retired XV core commander deployed in Kashmir wrote in 2014.
A small mercy in that the pro-Pakistan space has wilted even
faster than the anti-India one has increased but the space which has really
expanded is the pro-radical one....

The onset of radicalism in the Valley may be overlooked at considerable
risk to the situation so painstakingly created by the security forces.....

This is why the feelings of Azadi run
far deeper today than the pro-Pakistan leanings of the pre-1989 period.....

Since the foot soldiers are few and far
between and a high profile terrorist leadership is non-existent at
present,

Kashmir:What Awaits in 2014

Translation: We are NOT likely to see a redux of the 90's and the free run Pakistan had there for 15 years. The read that TSP is able to do anything in the valley at their whim and fancy is rooted more on fear and past history than current fact. This I believe is the view of the informed on the matter. Indeed, it is this space that allows Modiji to go on the offensive with respect to PoK and Baluchistan.

If I may suggest, you are reading too much into the TV interviews, and politically motivated statements on all sides to form your views, forming a largely political view of the matter.
[/quote]

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Prem » 24 Aug 2016 22:10

K issue is more of WM=Wahabi Musalman problem and can easily be solved with Green WM= Waste Management. Talking to them is Waste of Mauka and money.More religious slogan they shout more easily they go through Waste Management programme. K Jihadi problem need no solution but salvation.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Leonard » 25 Aug 2016 00:00

Just stumbled on this newssite .. Much better than the other "burqa-ish" clowns out there --

More Wanis -- need to be exterminated/hung from a Chinar tree on a regular basis, including the head of stone throwing organizing mob ..

http://www.newsroompost.com/302558/more-wanis-need-to-die-and-we-must-not-over-react/

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Prem » 25 Aug 2016 00:51

https://twitter.com/BJP4India/status/768447835268263937
Watch the video of Lone and Burkkha .

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ramana » 25 Aug 2016 01:11

Actually ISI need to have a review of intelligence failure when NaMo raised Baluchistan HR abuses when the focus of their attention was Cashmere.
This is a big intelligence failure on their part.
Its almost like STASI failed to understand the Berlin Wall collapse.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ShauryaT » 25 Aug 2016 03:08

CRamS: Some more data points for you ... from post above.
The border has been reinforced, infiltration is under control to a large extent and the forces are killing terrorists. In Jammu, the government is going for whole hog development.....

Pakistan has started to realise that it has become difficult for it to operate in Kashmir.....

More Wanis need to die and we must not over react -- former Research and Analysis Wing officer, Amar Bhushan

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ssundar » 25 Aug 2016 05:00

Mani Shankar Aiyar Chased Out Of A Hospital In Srinagar

He must be VERY upset. They called him an "Indian". How could they?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 25 Aug 2016 13:05

on the state of radicalisation..i would narrate a snippet from interview of late Sunanda Pushkar ( w/o Shashi Tharoor) ..sunanda is a kashmiri pandit who fled kashmir in 1989.. she went to visit her old house ( which had collapsed and lay in ruins). she was doing a little puja on her plot when a kashmiri boy aged about 8 to 10 yrs came and asked her if she was a hindu? she said yes to which he started howling loudly and shouting devil devil..the boy asked her how come she does not have horns on her head as devils have !!!! so much for kashmiriyat !! i say put kashmiriyat up every mullahs back side..

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby chetak » 25 Aug 2016 13:26

Prem wrote:https://twitter.com/BJP4India/status/768447835268263937
Watch the video of Lone and Burkkha .


Keep watching burkha's face. She is very very upset at the line sajjad lone is taking as he mauled congress, Chidu & Omar and deservedly so.

Lone also has the highest credibility among all the kashmiri commentators.

Wonder why this was not suppressed?? A lot of people now a days also record their own interviews simultaneously and independently to protect themselves from the likes of burkha.

So it had to be broadcast or else Lone would have put it out himself and made burkha lose face big time.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby wig » 25 Aug 2016 18:51

Asked tough questions on Kashmir unrest, angry Mehbooba Mufti walks out of press conference

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... e-2995761/
Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Mehbooba Mufti today lost her cool and abruptly ended a press conference being addressed by her and union Home Minister Rajnath Singh here when journalists asked questions about her role in dealing with the current unrest. She suddenly got up, saying “thank you”, after replying to a question even as Singh was seated. He also then got up reluctantly and the press interaction at her residence ended.
While responding to questions, Mehbooba condemned stone-pelting and other forms of violence being witnessed in Kashmir for the last 47 days and suggested that casualties will take place when camps of security forces and police pickets and police stations are attacked by violent mobs. She also elaborated on her earlier comments that only five per cent people of Kashmir are agitating. She said she meant to say that while 95 per cent of the people want resolution to the problem peacefully, five per cent had “hijacked” the issue by indulging in violence.
“I am for resolution of Kashmir issue. There should be dialogue. But by resorting to stone-pelting and attacking the camps, no issue will be resolved. We are not sidelining the issue. We want resolution,” she asserted. The Chief Minister sought to explain the manner in which casualties took place, particularly of the youngsters, over which there has been an uproar.

“95 per cent of those killed — mostly youth — have died in retaliatory action while they were attacking the security establishments,” she said. She added, “People have come onto the roads. We imposed curfew. Did the children go to army camps to buy toffees (candy)? Was the 15-year-old boy, who attacked the police station at Damhal Hanjipora (in south Kashmir), going there to get milk?”

At the same time, she said she supported action against those security personnel who were involved in the killing of a lecturer in Khrew area of Pulwama district earlier this month. “There is the case of lecturer. An inquiry should be held and punishment should be given the culprits. I support it,” Mehbooba said.
As journalists kept asking questions about her role in dealing the situation, Singh tried to mediate by telling the scribes, “Mehbooba ji is from among you”. However, Mehbooba was combative, saying, “What will they tell me? I have saved the youth of south Kashmir from Task Force (Special Operations Group of Police). I have saved them from the knives when they were taken for bonded labour.”

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby SBajwa » 25 Aug 2016 19:13

All Indian army needs to do of the bodies of the dead terrorists is to burn them in pig fat. That will stop anybody from becoming an "Islamic Martyr"

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby chetak » 25 Aug 2016 19:19

India needs to simply withdraw any and all forms of security that is being provided to the separatists at govt expense.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby nirav » 25 Aug 2016 19:33

Ticker on NDTV was flashing today about some "new Kashmir outreach".

I think the Pak pasands haven't gotten boiled enough.
Really hope that hizb mujahids new kammandu meets his 72 asap or wanis video is accidentally leaked.

These jaahils understand only brute force.PDPs hearts n minds winning attempts have failed spectacularly.

Think it's time to remind separatists of the might of India forces and the country's resolve.

Need to take them kid gloves off.
The 15-18-25 year old boys need to be schooled.
They must fear the state.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby CRamS » 25 Aug 2016 20:14

Guys, before I get conned, but what is the strategic orientation of this guy Muzaffar Baig of PDP? He sounds quite reasonable most of the time. He is not afraid of calling what is going in Kashmir valley as Islamic jihad. He even calls the harried rats as Paki stooges. And in one interview on newsx, he even said, that the issues between India and valley Muslims are at best some political rearrangement, none of this secessionist rubbish. He also said that for a few bucks, people in TSP turn Jihadi and the same phenomenon can come to the valley. He also said ISIS influence is pretty strong. None of what he observes is never discussed in MSM, thx to "secularism". But before I go ga ga over him, is this guy as reasonable as I think he is based on watching a few interviews?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sooraj » 25 Aug 2016 20:25

Chilli-filled 'PAVA shells' likely to replace pellet guns :)

An expert panel constituted by the Home Ministry to find an alternative to pellet guns for crowd control following uproar against its use in Kashmir has zeroed in on 'PAVA shells', a chilli-based ammunition, which is less lethal and immobilises the target temporarily.

The committee held a demonstration of the newly developed shells at a test field here earlier this week and gave the thumbs up for use by security forces for crowd control and during protests like those being witnessed in the Kashmir Valley in place of the pellet guns which have caused grievous injuries and large-scale blinding.

The 'PAVA shells', as per the blueprint prepared in this regard and accessed by PTI, were under trial for over a year at the Indian Institute of Toxicology Research, a Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) laboratory in Lucknow, and its full development has come at a time when Kashmir is on the boil.

Sources close to the committee said it has favoured 'PAVA shells' as an alternative to pellet guns and has recommended that the Tear Smoke Unit (TSU) of the BSF in Gwalior should be tasked with bulk production of the shells "immediately", with the first lot not of less than 50,000 rounds.

The name 'PAVA' stands for Pelargonic Acid Vanillyl Amide, also called Nonivamide, and is a organic compound found characteristically in natural chilli pepper.

On the Scoville scale (the degree to measure the power of chilli), PAVA is categorised as "above peak" meaning it will severely irritate and paralyse humans, but temporarily. It is also used as a food additive to add pungency, flavouring and spicy effect to food.

The committee, the blueprint said, found that 'PAVA' can be categorised in the less-lethal munition category. Once fired, the shells burst and temporarily stun, immobilise and paralyse the target (protestors) in a more effective way than a tear gas shell or pepper sprays.

The panel noted that PAVA is "biosafe, better than chilli grenade or tear smoke shell and can also be used in combination with stun and tear shells" by security forces while tackling unruly protesters.

The committee also analysed and is understood to have recommended the supply of few other non-lethal/less-lethal munition to security forces personnel deployed for crowd control in the Kashmir Valley and other similar situations elsewhere. The recommendations were, however, not yet known.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby IndraD » 25 Aug 2016 20:28

http://www.india.com/news/india/no-more ... e-1433973/

No more Pellet Guns in Kashmir, Rajnath Singh says government determined to find an alternative

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... s-2995723/

Kashmir violence: Rajnath Singh’s statement suggests Centre could be biting the bullet on pellet guns

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2016 07:06

now, the dorks would go India using chemical weapons on "their" citizens

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2016 07:28

note the author's name. The article is puke worthy.


Kashmir unrest: Where boys on 'night duty' warn of approaching security forces




Kashmir unrest: Where boys on 'night duty' warn of approaching security forces

David Devadas

Aug 25, 2016



In terms of tactics, Kashmir might as well be back to medieval times. One of the reasons why clashes flared up in Pulwama early on Wednesday morning is that boys were out on watch. They spotted the police forces that moved out at dawn to seal the place at which people of the district had been called to gather for demonstrations. The police probably also meant to impose strict curfew in surrounding areas.

That they succeeded in sealing that venue but clashed with people who emerged from their houses — and so could not effectively impose curfew — owes to a pattern that has become obvious over the past few weeks. In nooks and crannies across the sprawling Valley, three or four boys stay awake together on 'duty' every night. These knots of boys keep watch on every major approach towards their village or mohalla.

Their task is simple: To raise an alarm if a security forces approach. They signal a look-out on a height, often a mosque minaret. Those look-outs in turn use bells and/or mosque loudspeakers to rouse the entire village. People then emerge from their homes with kitchen knives, hammers, garden tools and whatever other potential weapon they can lay their hands upon — to stave off the forces. To pick up and detain 'stone-pelters' has become a challenging task. The police has nevertheless been rounding up key trouble-makers in different parts of the Valley over the past few weeks. This has substantially dampened stone-pelting.

The death of a lecturer in an assault by army men also contributed to stemming the pelting, particularly after the Northern Army Commander, Lt Gen DS Hooda publicly castigated it.
Also, fewer people than before were participating in the district-level demonstrations that had been common since mid-July. It remains to be seen whether the deaths in Pulwama and Srinagar on Wednesday spur a new round of agitations.

Well orchestrated

The Pulwama violence certainly gives occasion to analyse the night-watch pattern. It is new in Kashmir, but effective. Wide-eyed young people have described it to me in different parts of Kashmir - Tral and Pulwama in the south, for instance, and Baramulla and Kupwara in the north. They say that most of those who participate are teenagers. One of them says that people in their 20s and 30s also join. In some places, each household is given a turn every few nights: messages are sent to the family that it will be their turn to send a man on a certain night. One friend who described himself as a 'nationalist' (Indian) viewed the message that arrived at his home as coercive, but sent a nephew.

Three things emerge. One, teenagers are not only extremely well organised and resourceful, the fact that they have adopted similar tactics across different parts of the Valley indicates that things are being minutely coordinated — that tactics have been recommended to 'handlers' in different places, and in turn they are doing an efficient job of teaching the boys they coordinate. This is true of other patterns too. On the very first day of the current upsurge, the day after militant commander Burhan Wani was killed, mobs in different places right across the Valley attacked police stations and paramilitary camps — at several of these places, they tried to set fire. Either people in different places just happened to get the same idea simultaneously, or the strategy was recommended to the prime movers of mobs across the Valley.

Limits of technological shock and awe

Two, this shows that technological wherewithal does not necessarily mean tactical superiority: Depriving people of internet and phone access has by and large failed to prevent teenagers from mobilising effectively. And they have had enough communication to adopt similar tactics in different places.

Yet the government plows on with failed strategies. Internet access has remained shut since mid-July. For long periods, mobile phones other than BSNL post-paid connections have functioned as little more than camera-clocks. In places like Kupwara, there has been no internet access at all since 9 July. Only the few with broadband connections have been able to access the net.
Since the beginning of this century, technology has been at the heart of counterinsurgency operations in Kashmir. First there were Kenwood-Motorola frequency-jumping communication devices. When the forces got equipment to beat that (at very high cost), militants took to satellite phones. When the forces got equipment (at very high cost) to pinpoint sat-phones, they were replaced by another generation, which too has been beaten. Now, they use y-sms.

While this cycle of high-cost technology battles continues, Kashmir’s tenacious teenagers have demonstrated that the bells, trumpets, cat calls and bird-calls, as well as the mosque and church tower look-outs, that worked in medieval and even primitive times remain just as viable and effective today.

Counterproductive counterinsurgency

Three, this shows that, despite all the oft-repeated claims of counterinsurgency success, we might as well be back to 1989-90. An entire generation has passed since then, but the resilient enthusiasm of bunches of teenagers is holding security forces at bay more effectively than back then. All the claptrap about grids and area dominance turns out to be hogwash. As a prominent youth leader of the ruling establishment points out, if anyone learnt lessons from what happened in the past, it is the boys, not the state.

In any case, treating Kashmir as primarily a security challenge is counterproductive. One aspect of this is that the army’s hugely-funded 'Sadbhavana' programme — and all the high-cost, feel-good propaganda around it — has been counterproductive. It has failed miserably to win hearts and minds. In fact, community leaders, politicians and former militants highlight the point that bonhomie has washed away fear of security forces. One can’t have it both ways, they say. So it would be best if the army were to stick to its job — as the redoubtable General BC Joshi (COAS - 1993) had wanted.

Hardly anyone even tried to understand the dimensions of those problems in Kashmir, leave alone try to resolve them.

Throwing money and jobs at Kashmiris through intelligence agencies and administrative measures has done even less good than the army’s sadbhavana. Incisive analysis might even reveal that it has done more harm than good. For, corruption alienates its victims. Worse, it turns administrative systems into robbery rackets, which people outside the extortionist cabals experience as terribly oppressive. Particularly in unstable places, accountability is far more vital than cash flow.

Several local-level community leaders (such as lawyers and traders’ associations) argue that the government’s rehabilitation policies too have been counterproductive. Some of the ex-militants-turned-mercenaries who were then absorbed into policing have not been up to much good over the past few weeks, they allege. Particularly over the past decade, there was an urgent need to grapple with educational, cultural and sociological problems. Sadly, hardly anyone even tried to understand the dimensions of those problems in Kashmir, leave alone try to resolve them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby asgkhan » 26 Aug 2016 14:55

IndraD wrote:http://www.india.com/news/india/no-more-pellet-guns-in-kashmir-rajnath-singh-says-government-determined-to-find-an-alternative-1433973/

No more Pellet Guns in Kashmir, Rajnath Singh says government determined to find an alternative

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... s-2995723/

Kashmir violence: Rajnath Singh’s statement suggests Centre could be biting the bullet on pellet guns


I wish these idiots get hit with a chemical dye grenade which will be permanent, stinky and cause allergic reactions and reduce testostrone levels. Hairfall and sterilisation would be a plus.

The cops can then later identify the maroons and haul them away later for questioning.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Christopher Sidor » 26 Aug 2016 15:15

Kashmiri lives matter - Greater Kashmir Dated 24-Aug-2016

Kashmir lives matter wrote:Nevertheless its time not to get dehumanized. Every human life matters, similarly Kashmiri lives matter too. Enough is enough! No more deaths. Kashmiris protest because human life matters, the lives of our youth, women and children matter.

This is what really gets me. Kashmiri Police or CRPF or BSF or Indian Army is not putting children at the front of the crowds and asking them to attack the armed forces or police. It is because certain section of Kashmiris know that our forces have some humanity so they use children as shields to attack Police and security forces presence. It is those in Kashmir who have decided to put Children in front of crowds to attack security forces It is not us who have made the Kashmiri's dehumanized. It is Kashmir's and their leaders themselves who have led them there. And it is no way different than that what happened in 1947 where a certain whiskey - drinking - egoistical -maniac carried out Direct Action.


Kashmir lives matter wrote:The sickening cycle of killing Kashmiri civilians accompanied by sickening sound and fury of celebratory jingoism in the Indian media must stop too.

This sickening cycle of not being accountable for one's action has to be stopped first. Those of Indians who have watched their TV screens have seen children attacking police and security forces have been sickened by the realization that this is what Kashmiri's Insaniyat and Kashmiryat has become. Or maybe this was what it was all about from day one. We just realized it now.


Kashmir lives matter wrote:Let majority rule law be applied to Kashmir and let the decision of majority be respected and acknowledged by everyone.

If that is the case then Majority of India wants to do away with Section 370 entirely, will these so called Kashmiri's representatives accept it?


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