J&K News and Discussion-2011

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prahaar
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby prahaar » 30 May 2014 13:01

If the 2014 result is repeated in J&K state polls, is the BJP likely to become at least the second largest party?

Looking at the vote numbers, it appears, that valley is over-represented compared to Jammu+Ladakh in terms of population density. Even if amendments to the article can be done to make the people's representation act, RTI, etc. applicable in the state, that would be a good beginning.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 30 May 2014 14:43

Kashmir has 3 LS seats while Jammu has got 2. Similar is the ratio of Assembly seats despite not having much of a difference in population size.

Also do remember that this LS elections were more about NaMo than BJP so BJP might not be able to reap the same harvest after say one year once the honeymoon period lapses.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby vishvak » 30 May 2014 21:37

Why is it so? Is there a calculation wherein a believer is about 150% more important than nonbelievers?

Why are soofi saints in J&K silent about this unequal seat allocation? Or for that matter numerous other human rights groups such as leftists, secularists, or even con the party that ruled the country for decades. A lot of silence there over decades.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Devendra » 31 May 2014 23:24

The Representation of the People Act, 1950, which gives election commission of India the right to allocation of seats and the delimitation of constituencies is not applicable to Jammu and Kashmir due to article 370. For ~ 49,725 voters, Valley has one MLA but Jammu has one MLA for ~ 66,521 voters. Because of this Jammu has nine MLAs less in the legislature than Kashmir valley. This shifts the political balance towards the Valley

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Shanmukh » 01 Jun 2014 00:08

Devendra wrote:The Representation of the People Act, 1950, which gives election commission of India the right to allocation of seats and the delimitation of constituencies is not applicable to Jammu and Kashmir due to article 370. For ~ 49,725 voters, Valley has one MLA but Jammu has one MLA for ~ 66,521 voters. Because of this Jammu has nine MLAs less in the legislature than Kashmir valley. This shifts the political balance towards the Valley


Here is a rather old article about delimitation in Jammu&Kashmir.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080920/j ... 861180.jsp

Just quoting the relevant portions of the article.

“Kashmir has 46 Assembly constituencies and Jammu 37 although we have more voters and area than Kashmir. We want at least parity in seats between the two regions,” Singh said. Jammu had 31 lakh voters and Kashmir 28 lakh during the 2002 Assembly elections, he said. “Both the area and number of voters are in our favour.”

Although the 2001 census agrees with Singh’s claim of more area — Jammu covers 26,289sqkm and Kashmir 15,948km — it puts a question mark on the claim of more voters as Jammu has fewer people than Kashmir. According to the census figures, the population in the Valley is 54.76 lakh and that of Jammu is 44.3 lakh.


So, there are more people in the Kashmir valley than in Jammu. But there is an interesting catch

Sharma said he could not explain why Kashmir, despite having nearly 1.3 million people more than Jammu, had only about 2 lakh more voters. “We have gone from house to house to enlist voters. All I can say is that it is the choice of the people to register,” he said.

Sources said many Kashmiri youths were not registering because of their aversion to the process. “No less than 7 lakh voters of Kashmir are missing from the electoral rolls,” one source said.


So, Cashmerees don't want to register for voting in Yindia? Why is that, I wonder? Is it because the Jeehardees won't allow it, or natural sympathy for Jeehardees (maybe some of the `youths' are themselves Jeehardees, or wannabe Jeehardees?)

Finally, Jammu delimitation itself is in trouble
There is still another twist to the delimitation puzzle — that of Muslim-dominated districts. National Conference provincial president Mehboob Beig pointed out that Jammu has five districts — Doda, Rajouri, Poonch, Kishtwar and Ramban — where there are more Muslims. Together these districts make up 65 per cent of Jammu’s area. The other five make up only 35 per cent. The BJP, Congress and the Jammu State Morcha want delimitation in all 10 districts.


Ehh - Kishtwar was Hindu majority as recently as 1981. Is it Muslim majority now? Or am I mistaken about Kishtwar being Hindu majority in 1981?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Jun 2014 03:30

BRFees asleep?

This is big news.A little change adding one letter to one word, but it is the accompanying text that is most definite, decisive, stands up and tells the truth. Very new from Dilli, and so quick after taking office.

Guys, this portends interesting times.. :eek:
Now for one dhamka on Uniform Civil Code.

Then one on Ayodhya, ordering that since the courts have basically decided that there was indeed a temple, it is time to rebuild it.

Do these all inside 2 days. Like I said, the rioters can combine their "takleef" from all 3 at the same time, and be shown the 1-way open door to the Promised Land of TSP. I mean Occupied Punjab and Sindh.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 04 Jun 2014 15:34

Waiting since 1947 for all the above...


ramana
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ramana » 05 Jun 2014 02:00




Next I want him to nominate MLAs for the seats in PoJK until elections can be held later.
And provide funds to be used for the refugees from those areas.

vishvak
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby vishvak » 05 Jun 2014 20:22

ramana wrote:



Next I want him to nominate MLAs for the seats in PoJK until elections can be held later.
And provide funds to be used for the refugees from those areas.

Since PoJK is anyway occupied by pakis, these seats could accommodate Kashmiri Pandits and other prosecuted people coming over from across border - meaning Hindus. Similar to how Hindus have been prosecuted in Bangladesh and have to come over to save life, family & any belongings from wrath of rabid barbarians.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jrjrao » 06 Jun 2014 10:11

Perhaps a bit noteworthy. The event was in Srinagar, at the invite of one Hurryrat faction.

Iranian envoy stays mum on Kashmir issue in Hurriyat (M) seminar
http://www.risingkashmir.com/iranian-en ... m-seminar/
Srinagar, June 05: Iranian envoy to India, Gholam Reza Ansari, Thursday disappointed separatist camp by giving a miss to Kashmir issue during his speech in a seminar organized by a constituent of Hurriyat Conference (M) here to mark the 25th death anniversary of Aytoullah Ali Khomenai (RA).

During his 15-minute speech in the seminar organized by Anjuman-e-Sharian Shian, a constituent of Hurriyat (M), Iranian envoy talked about Indo-Pak relations, Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline and world peace.

“In his speech he didn’t talk about Kashmir issue, which was very disappointing. He only talked about good relationship between India and Pakistan,” a separatist leader, who attended the seminar, told Rising Kashmir.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby JE Menon » 06 Jun 2014 22:30

Iran is a steady, highly predictable, neighbour... They may do things we don't like, we may do things they don't like, but net net... neither will go out of way to screw each other. They sometimes have an idea that they have a greater influence within India than they actually do, so behaviour or comments may reflect that now and then - but broadly speaking we can do business with them. For the time being anyways.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby krithivas » 07 Jun 2014 01:52

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/looking-forward-to-work-with-modi-govt-on-kashmiri-pandits-return-omar/article6089615.ece?ref=relatedNews
Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah on Friday said he was looking forward to work with the new government at the Centre on return of displaced Kashmiri Pandit community to the Valley.
“I look forward to working with the new government as they unveil their plans for the honourable return of the displaced Pandit community,” Mr. Omar wrote on his Twitter account.

He acknowledges that Hindu Pandits still remain refugees in their own land. He either did not work with Congress or the Congress refused his earlier request to return the Pandits to their land. But it does remind me of a Tamizh proverb, "The monkey starts dancing when when the the owner raises the baton". PM Modi is the baton.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Jun 2014 20:47

This is a must watch video in J&K context. Strongly recommend folks to take time and do this (I promise every minute will be worth your time in gold).

Basically this pre-election promise and the mandate received by Modi, voided all kinds of hackneyed "solutions" conceived by INC and other anti-national goons.

There is nothing Pakistan, US, UK or any other power on earth that will turn the winds away from the change towards final solution.


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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Jun 2014 21:20

Iran for the last 30 years which was siding with Pakis seems to see the righting on the wall. If our military and economic might increase with right thinking , a lot of people will fall inline.

RoyG
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby RoyG » 08 Jun 2014 00:11

Aditya_V wrote:Iran for the last 30 years which was siding with Pakis seems to see the righting on the wall. If our military and economic might increase with right thinking , a lot of people will fall inline.


Having a strong Iran isn't in our interest. It should be weak and used as a buffer against the Sunni coalition.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jrjrao » 08 Jun 2014 06:28

I don't really understand this latest bit of nonsense from this idiot, other than that he is programmed to reflexively oppose everything that Delhi does or says.

Mirwaiz slams Modi Sarkaar: ‘Not PoK, it’s Azad Kashmir’
Srinagar, June 6: Kashmir’s chief cleric and chairman of Hurriyat Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Friday hit out at the NarendraModi-led Government at the Centre for “attempting to polarize” Jammu and Kashmir. He asserted that the Modi government’s proposed move to rename Pakistan Administered Kashmir as “Pakistan Occupied Jammu Kashmir (PoJK)” in its nomenclature is “fraught with dangerous consequences.”

"They should call other side of Kashmir as Azad Kashmir,” he said. “These parties want to see J&K burning in communal fire,” he said.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 08 Jun 2014 12:43

jrjrao wrote:I don't really understand this latest bit of nonsense from this idiot, other than that he is programmed to reflexively oppose everything that Delhi does or says.

Mirwaiz slams Modi Sarkaar: ‘Not PoK, it’s Azad Kashmir’
Srinagar, June 6: Kashmir’s chief cleric and chairman of Hurriyat Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Friday hit out at the NarendraModi-led Government at the Centre for “attempting to polarize” Jammu and Kashmir. He asserted that the Modi government’s proposed move to rename Pakistan Administered Kashmir as “Pakistan Occupied Jammu Kashmir (PoJK)” in its nomenclature is “fraught with dangerous consequences.”

"They should call other side of Kashmir as Azad Kashmir,” he said. “These parties want to see J&K burning in communal fire,” he said.


He is a Idiot and most likely being also groomed by GoI. I can't imagine such charlatans surviving unless Delhi govt is keep them alive on ventilation so as not to keep all the eggs in one basket.
If he doesn't open his mouth and spew garbage, How will he be relevant to Kashmiri Sunni Muslims..Hain ji ?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 08 Jun 2014 16:17

if the mad dog is opposing renaming of POK as PoJK then i am sure its a very good idea... way to go Modi..

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 08 Jun 2014 16:18

i would have personally liked Modi to say that the final and acceptable solution of J&K issue is incorporation of PoJK into J&K.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Jun 2014 18:48

a Tamizh proverb, "The monkey starts dancing when when the the owner raises the baton". PM Modi is the baton.


BBC "Yes Minister" saying:
When u have them by the (assets) their Hearts and Minds will follow.


NM should keep winning the Hearts and Minds of the "Kashmiris" and ask the Hurry-Rats to hurry-up and cross the border permanently.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 09 Jun 2014 16:10

Got hold of this book and reading it currently:
The Meadow by Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark: review

Seems very interesting read and lots of inside details of how the Faith-fools worked in the 90s and the responses of our forces.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby dada » 14 Jun 2014 13:29

Can we focus our discussion on ways of changing kashmir demography in our favour. ?
Strategies:
1. permanently settle
hindu refugees from pakistan-bangladesh (from 1947 to date)
people from neighbouring punjab,haryana & himachal pradesh.
ex-servicemen from 1947 onwards
2. disenfranchisement of all kashmiri muslims involved in riots,smuggling,hawala,violence
3. refusal to take back all kashmiris/families who went to pk for arms training etc
4. dividing the kashmir into 2 union territories & kashmir valley state
5. separate colonies with bunkers + underground tunnels interconnecting hindu colonies directly connected to garrisons / cantontments.
6. maximum use of internet for all services that minimises unnecessary movement on the lines of israel strategy in its settlements.
7. continued use of regular strategy of militarization + imprisonment / house arrests + laws + dialogues + strategic delays
+ occasional custodial deaths & encounters
8. make kashmir non muslim majority by 2025-2030.(settle atleast 2 lakh/yr for all yrs to come)
9. encourage marriage of kashmiris with indians
10. weapons training & defence tactics to all members of the colonies ( learn from israel)
11. never trust the kashmiri majoritarian psyche. prepare kashmiri pandits for perpetual alertness(learn from israel)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Jarita » 14 Jun 2014 18:22

The Kashmiri pandits have been systematically cleansed from the valley over 400 years. The 1990 episode was the last one

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ramana » 14 Jun 2014 20:24

jrjrao wrote:I don't really understand this latest bit of nonsense from this idiot, other than that he is programmed to reflexively oppose everything that Delhi does or says.

Mirwaiz slams Modi Sarkaar: ‘Not PoK, it’s Azad Kashmir’
Srinagar, June 6: Kashmir’s chief cleric and chairman of Hurriyat Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Friday hit out at the NarendraModi-led Government at the Centre for “attempting to polarize” Jammu and Kashmir. He asserted that the Modi government’s proposed move to rename Pakistan Administered Kashmir as “Pakistan Occupied Jammu Kashmir (PoJK)” in its nomenclature is “fraught with dangerous consequences.”

"They should call other side of Kashmir as Azad Kashmir,” he said. “These parties want to see J&K burning in communal fire,” he said.


He is not MirWaiz but mere foolish.
He prefers to be under Paki yoke than freedom under Hindu India.

Does this foolish Mir realize the other area has parts more than Kashmir? And all were part of J&K.
Gilgit, Baltistan etc.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Supratik » 14 Jun 2014 22:05

From wiki. 2011 population. Jammu division pop 6.9 million. Kashmir division pop 5.3 million. Is there a demographic change taking place in J&K?


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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Kakkaji » 15 Jun 2014 01:32

Cross-post from Railways thread:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/infrastructure/indian-railways-complete-challenging-udhampur-katra-rail-link/slideshow/36473145.cms

Indian Railways complete 'challenging' Udhampur-Katra rail link

Udhampur-Katra rail link
13 Jun, 2014

Text: PTI & TNN

The Udhampur-Katra rail section in Jammu and Kashmir is ready for inauguration! Once the line becomes operational, it will enable pilgrims to the Vaishno Devi shrine to travel directly to the base camp at Katra.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 15 Jun 2014 01:44

Ermm, that Udhampur station is still some way away from Katra.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jrjrao » 16 Jun 2014 09:13

Plain talk by the defense minister in Srinagar. Expect both the Pakis and their stooge rats to go ape$hit:

No talks outside the ambit of Indian constitution: Jaitley

Modi govt’s first reaction on separatists
Srinagar, June 15: Defence Minister ArunJaitley Sunday said they are ready to hold dialogue with any group "within the ambit of Indian Constitution."

“The dialogue will take place within the ambit of Indian Constitution. There will be no compromise on this,” Jaitley told reporters at a news conference. He was replying a query about the possibility of dialogue with separatist leadership in Kashmir.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 16 Jun 2014 12:05

Who is GoI really planning to talk to and why the other party is always assumed to be a Kashmiri Sunni Islamic group ?
Wouldn't that also come under, “These parties want to see J&K burning in communal fire”...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhishek_sharma » 17 Jun 2014 03:09

Seize the day: Syed Ata Hasnain

The writer is a recently-retired lieutenant general and former general officer commanding of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Jun 2014 07:39

With all respect to the General, I would point out that no matter how hard India tries, the elements who are "alienated" will remain so - and remain receptive to external inflammation. That is the real lesson of 67 years. It is time to REALLY "alienate" the congenitally alienated, and render them completely irrelevant. They can either join the democratic mainstream as Indian citizens with all the responsibilities and duties, or they can cross the LOC one-way. The state should be filled with Indians who are interested in developing and advancing the nation, not those who are bent on destruction and :(( :((

So a 4-pronged, SWIFT action is what I would recommend:
a) Massive buildup of military strength in J&K to deter external and internal violence.
b) Scrap Article 370, return property rights to the displaced people or their successors - or if they can no longer be found, to the government (meaning take it away from the looters).
c) Bring in massive development, but with no-nonsense security provided, even if it means carefully-provided special ID cards for ALL entry into ALL parts of J&K. No automatic ID/rights for anyone just because they have been squatting in the state.
d) Bring in the Uniform Civil Code, take away all "special rights" to anyone.

The "alienated" of J&K have grown up in a sense of over-entitlement. Time to end it. People in other states deserve equal opportunity and development funds far more than these traitors.

Call the rioters' bluff. Take away their illegal privileges. Turn violent neighborhoods into parking lots, build malls there.

India has People Power. Time to use it.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Pratyush » 17 Jun 2014 09:15

Will the next J&K CM be from BJP? Party raises the stakes

By R Jagannathan.

It seems at a first read, that he is smoking something potent. Is there a chance that he is not?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 17 Jun 2014 11:09

J&K BJP is full of short-sighted fools with no leader of stature. They won 3 Lok Sabha seats just because of Modi. Getting 41 seats in the state is a pipe dream. They can't get even the demographics right. They will never have any chance in state unless proper delimitation and division of state is done.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 17 Jun 2014 12:48

Who is responsible for delimitation in J&K or does it come under state Govt's preview as per Article 370.
In reality J&K BJP has no leader worth its name who can be sort of Modi in the state. Without few seats in the Kashmir, the best bet would be some sort of alliance.

Somehow Jammu has not rejected the valley based parties till now for some mysterious reason.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 17 Jun 2014 14:34

Some old farts and dimwits running after govt jobs still support NC.
Muslim vote on the other hand is divided between Congress, PDP and NC.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 17 Jun 2014 14:47

Few years ago, I did meet someone who had his agriculture land right adjacent to the Jammu Airport.
He was the biggest fan of Sheikh Abdullah for the land reforms and could not stop raving about him. This was my pre-BRF days.

Maybe there is a reason that some people in Jammu still voted for NC earlier and now PDP.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 17 Jun 2014 22:47

About this Article 370, When and where was it first proposed and who proposed it ?
As far my reading and understanding of history, Post 1947 while Maharaja Hari Singh was still dithering in his decision on whether to stay independent or merge with Pakistan or India, Pakistan launched military attack on Kashmir to grab it by forces and were on the verge of capturing Kashmir.
Hari Singh abdicated and asked GoI for military help and in return signed instrument of accession which merged the state of J&K into India.
So where did this Article 370 arise then ?
Did Maharaja demanded privileges as enshrined in Art-370 for his state or did JLN on his own prompted Sheikh Abdullah to demand such free gifts or was it a unilateral action by GoI.
It is still not clear why Article 370 was brought in when no other state got similar exemption nor Maharaja was in a position to demand such sweet deal.
Why would GoI offer such special rights to the state when the state was merging with India on its own without any coercion and that too when such offer was being opposed by senior members of cabinet like SP and BRA.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ramana » 17 Jun 2014 22:56

I once taked to a retired Brig of IA about the Maharaja's dithering. He said historically the gateway to Srinagar was via Lahore since Maharaja Ranjit Singhji's time. The Congress stalwarts who suggested accession did not talk about the access route being replaced by India. This was a major point of dithering for J&K would be cut off from land access till such time a new way was built. And winter was approaching. So the Maharaja Hari Singh dithered for he cared for his people. Meantime TSP invaded him to make up his mind.
All this is lost in the narrative from Nehru accolytes who blames Hari Singh for dithering.


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