J&K News and Discussion-2011

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Muppalla
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Muppalla » 30 Mar 2011 07:44

Armys CBM in Valley: giant TV screens to watch The Match

For the first time since the beginning of insurgency, the Army has put up giant screens across the Valley for people to watch the India-Pakistan match tomorrow. The screens have been erected everywhere except in Srinagar, where the state government has decided not to allow public screening of the game.
“We have set up more than 20 big screens across the Valley for cricket lovers,” Army spokesman Lt Col. J S Brar told The Indian Express. “We know that people in Kashmir love the game, and it is a small gesture from our side to provide a platform for them to watch the semifinal and final of the World Cup.”

The screens have been put up in all districts, and in the border towns of Uri, Kupwara, Gulmarg and Karnah. In north Kashmir’s Baramulla town, screens have been erected at Sherwani Hall and the cricket stadium. Around 1,000 fans can be accommodated at each location.

“There is lot of excitement among the people,” Brar said. “We are only trying to make sure that the people are able to watch the match in a good environment and in a peaceful manner.”

Sheikh Mushtaq, manager, Baramulla Sports Council, described the Army’s effort as an attempt to reach out to the people. “At some places where the Army has put up screens, people don’t even have TVs or face regular power cuts... The screens will attract huge crowds,” he said.

Arjumand Khan, a cricket fan who plans to be at Sherwani Hall along with his friends, said the big screen provided a totally different experience. “The Army has also promised uninterrupted power supply,” he said. Another fan, Javid Ahmad, said, “At Sherwani Hall we will enjoy the match with 400-500 people and cheer for good cricket.”

Fans in Srinagar will, however, have to watch the match in their homes.

“Section 144 (banning the assembly of four or more people) is already in place,” Deputy Commissioner Mehraj Ahmad Kakroo told The Indian Express. “We expect people to watch the match indoors.”

Kakroo appealed to the people to watch the match in the right spirit. “We hope people will watch the match in the spirit of sport. We would appreciate that,” he said.

The Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) will try to avoid confrontations — even though it fears attempts might be made to disrupt law and order.

“We have asked our jawans to allow people to cheer for whichever team they want to,” CRPF spokesman Prabhakar Tripathi said. “We have asked them to keep their cool.

“There are some people who will try to disrupt the situation. There is a need to keep a watch on them,” he added. Sources said the police have asked the Power Development Department to ensure uninterrupted power supply during the match so that people stay indoors.

The police have asked people to desist from bursting firecrackers tomorrow, especially outside the bunkers of the security forces. The warning came after some youths burst crackers when Pakistan beat the West Indies to enter the semis, and CRPF personnel responded by bursting crackers when India beat Australia.

Yet, the demand for firecrackers is so high that shops are unable to cope, and prices have shot up.

“We were not expecting an India-Pakistan match in the World Cup, and therefore did not order any special stock,” said a shopkeeper at Maharaja Bazar in Srinagar. “The rush has been unexpected. I have sold my entire stock in past two days.”

The excitement is high — even inside Srinagar central jail. Jail officials said that on the demand of inmates, six TVs have been installed inside.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 30 Mar 2011 18:06

The police have asked people to desist from bursting firecrackers tomorrow, especially outside the bunkers of the security forces. The warning came after some youths burst crackers when Pakistan beat the West Indies to enter the semis, and CRPF personnel responded by bursting crackers when India beat Australia.

Should the CRPF flks who burst the crackers be hauled up for troubling poor innocent Kashmiris and violating their human nights?

Where is NDTV? :evil: :evil:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby wig » 02 Apr 2011 07:21

LONDON: Embattled Libyan dictator colonel Muammar Gaddafi's controversial second son, Saif Al Islam Gaddafi, attempted to contrive a pro-Pakistan opinion poll in Kashmir, but it boomeranged on him. The result published last summer by Royal Institute of International Affairs (also known as Chatham House) and Kings College, London, was contrary to Saif's expectation.

This little known fact, that Saif met Robert Bradnock of Kings College who masterminded the survey to contrive the poll, emerged at a seminar in UK's Houses of Parliament on Thursday evening. Saif was then fresh from a visit to Pakistan occupied Kashmir (POK), where he was fed usual propaganda of mock refugee camps and the plight of Kashmiris in India compared to "paradise they experienced in Pakistan'' .

Not that Saif needed persuasion . His father colonel Gaddafi had bankrolled Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme in the 1970s and 80s to the tune of half a billion dollars in response to Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's quest for an "Islamic bomb'' .

Bradnock says that Saif returned from POK with grandiose ideas of forcing a plebiscite in Kashmir as desired by Pakistan. He then asked the academic to conduct a survey, which he would underwrite. He funded it to the extent of $200,000 but any designs he might have had of doctoring the outcome were demolished when Bradnock insisted that he would do this only if the exercise was completely independent and had the institutional involvement of Chatham House and Kings College.

Saif agreed. Brainwashed in Pakistan, he perhaps could not believe the findings would be anything other than in Islamabad's favour. He was in for a rather rude shock. The plebiscite, as agreed at the UN in 1948, which Pakistan still demands, gave Kashmiris only two choices: either to remain with India or join Pakistan. In the event, Bradnock's poll, the first ever to be held on both sides of LoC, unearthed that 98% of people in India-controlled J&K did not wish to be a part of Pakistan; and 50% in POK did not wish to remain with Pakistan, either.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 848759.cms

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby pgbhat » 03 Apr 2011 05:29

Prayers Answered ---- Documentary on Turtuk.
Dated ....
Synopsis: On the invitation and prayers of tribal leaders, the Dalai Lama travels to a poor and remote Muslim village at the India Pakistan border. More than a symbolic gesture, the visit results in an invitation by the Dalai Lama to provided a modern education to children from the village while insuring their religious and cultural heritage. Without this film, this amazing story would never be known or seen.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby shyamd » 03 Apr 2011 19:02

Making the LOC irrelevant
The innocuous-looking Indian announcement on Saturday in Delhi regarding a relaxation of the visa regime for Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir residents to visit J&K carries a lot of meaning. The previous regime allowed POK residents to hold 4-week single-entry visas that are extendable by another 2 weeks. The new regime allows them to hold multi-entry visas with 6-months’ stay allowed. This is a major relaxation of the regime and it needs to be welcomed.

What it signifies in political terms also needs to be grasped. MHA has been traditionally sensitive about granting liberal visas for POK residents to come to J&K. The new measure signifies a measure of growing self-confidence about the security climate in general. Two, it goes some way toward meeting a grievance among the Kashmiri people that they should have greater freedom to cross LOC. To that extent, this is a measure to assuage public opinion in J&K. That is, it forms part of a package that the government can be expected to announce in stages to address their grievances - measures that signify responsive governance.
Three, there is a meaningful signal to Pakistan as well. The point cannot be lost that the ceasefire along the LOC is holding; the cross-border infiltration by militants has come down significantly; and, apart from rhetoric now and then, Pakistan did not try to exploit the situation in J&K in the recent months to stir up an Intifada-type agitation. There is also a perceptible change of tone even on the part of the Hurriyet leaders. That is, the Indian ‘comfort level’ regarding Pakistani intentions is progressively rising.
Most certainly, the timing of the announcement is significant - on the eve of the meeting of Home Secretaries of India and Pakistan in Delhi on Monday.


:) Confirms all that I have been thinking and saying about GoI policy on J&K! MKB has a very similar take on issues as I do.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby anupmisra » 03 Apr 2011 19:26

wig wrote:
98% of people in India-controlled J&K did not wish to be a part of Pakistan; and 50% in POK did not wish to remain with Pakistan, either.


To the mathematically challenged paki mind (now that's an oxymoron in itself), that's 52% of the population that wishes to remain with the land of the pure.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Mauryan » 04 Apr 2011 14:44

anupmisra wrote:98% of people in India-controlled J&K did not wish to be a part of Pakistan; and 50% in POK did not wish to remain with Pakistan, either.


To the mathematically challenged paki mind (now that's an oxymoron in itself), that's 52% of the population that wishes to remain with the land of the pure.[/quote]

:rotfl:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Dipanker » 04 Apr 2011 23:19

anupmisra wrote:
To the mathematically challenged paki mind (now that's an oxymoron in itself), that's 52% of the population that wishes to remain with the land of the pure.



If you add Gilgit-Baltitstan, Jammu, and Laddakh, it will much less than 50%

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhishek_sharma » 05 Apr 2011 08:03


jamwal
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 06 Apr 2011 16:05

HM militant, SI, Army jawan killed

Barely a week after killing a leader of National Conference at Pinglish-Tral in South Kashmir’s Pulwama district, a self-styled divisional commander of Hizbul Mujahideen (HM) identified as Sajad Ahmad alias 'Bale Bale' fell to the bullets of police and security forces during an encounter at Dadsar-Tral here in the evening. A Sub-Inspector of police and an Army jawan were killed in the encounter that started in the afternoon. Search operation was still going on when the last reports came in. Reports said that police and security forces noticed movement of some militants at Dadsar-Tral this afternoon. Following this, a siege was laid around the area and in no time bullets started pouring from both the sides. The whole area was reverberated with gun shots.

In the initial burst of gun battle, a Sub-Inspector of police and an Army jawan were killed due to the firing of militants. The gunfire of the militants was returned and in the ensuing encounter the self styled divisional commander of HM was killed. He has been identified as Sajad Ahmad alias 'Bale Bale'. He was involved in many militant activities in the entire South Kashmir area especially Tral.

Police officials termed the killing of HM divisional commander as a major success exuding confidence that his killing would dealt a severe blow to the militant organizations especially HM in the entire South Kashmir area.




Number of militants seeking return crosses 800.Unlisted ultras too apply under Rehabilitation Policy


Number of the militants seeking return from Pakistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) to Jammu and Kashmir after over two decades has crossed 800. After scrutiny by the district SPs, some of the applications have been sent to the Counter Intelligence Department (CID) for further verification process. Official sources told the Excelsior that number of militants, held up in Pakistan and PoK since 1990 and later, who have expressed their consent to return to the State and lead a normal life has crossed 800. Almost all militancy infested districts have received applications from families of the militants on behalf of their kin expressing their desire to return to the State under Rehabilitation Policy of the Government. Sources said number of the applications has crossed 800. Majority of them were under examination of the district SP, the first mandatory step for processing the applications. Only if the district SP cleared the application finding merit in it that it would go to next stage at the CID level.

Sources said nearly 100 applications have either been cleared by the district SPs or were in the process of being cleared shortly after which they would be sent to the CID for further verification.

According to sources, the CID has compiled data of nearly 2500 to 3000 militants, who were holed-up in Pakistan and PoK for last eight to 20 years where they had gone for arms training. However, after completion of training, the stranded militants were unable to cross into this side due to surveillance on the Line of Control (LoC) as well as the International Border (IB) or other measures taken by the security personnel.


Interesting

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby wig » 07 Apr 2011 15:02

J & K literacy rate goes up by 13 per cent in last decade
Jammu and Kashmir's literacy rate has increased by 13 per cent in the last decade even as the state witnessed a dip in the sex ratio and the child sex ratio, the provisional figures of the 2011 Census reveal.

"The literacy rate in Jammu and Kashmir has increased from 55 per cent in 2001 Census to 68 per cent in the 2011 Census," Director Census Operations Jammu and Kashmir Farooq Ahmad told reporters here.

While female literacy has increased from 20 per cent in 1981 Census to 58 per cent this year, the male literacy has also nearly doubled from 44 per cent to 78 per cent during the corresponding three decades, Ahmad said while releasing the data.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/1493541_JK- ... st-decade-

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhishek_sharma » 08 Apr 2011 13:27

It is interesting to see how PoK is cut off from the map of India.

Image

http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/ambroemertjtravels.html

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby SSridhar » 08 Apr 2011 13:52

Prominent Ahl-e-Hadith leader killed by terrorists
Prominent religious figure and Jamiat-e-Ahli Hadees chief Moulvi Showkat Ahmad Shah was on Friday killed in an improvised explosive device (IED) blast outside a mosque in Maisuma area of the city, police officials said.

Mr. Shah, who was critically injured in the explosion which took place around 12.30 p.m., was rushed to a city hospital where he succumbed to injuries, they said.

Another youth, identified as Munir Ahmad Mir, was also critically injured in the blast.

Although the exact cause of the explosion is being investigated, police suspect that militants have used an IED planted on a bicycle near the rear entrance of the mosque where Shah used to lead the Friday prayers.

Several attempts were made on the life of Shah in the past.

Mr. Shah was also actively involved in separatist politics and was very close to JKLF chief Mohammad Yasin Malik.


You sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby manjgu » 08 Apr 2011 14:09

a) why has this guy been bumped off? close to JKLF ?
b) why no such IED mubarak for Yasin Malik?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Advait » 08 Apr 2011 16:19

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/21/7 ... thnic.html
Xinjiang was 6% Han Chinese in 1946, in 2008 it was 41% and increasing
We need to learn from China how to solve the Kashmir problem. I am sure the Chinese solution has been mentioned on this forum. If we can't carry out a demographic solution (the only longterm and realistic solution) then at least we can do this:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/02/16/1 ... ni_popular

Btw, check out my fictional scenario in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5884

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Pranav » 09 Apr 2011 05:50

SSridhar wrote:Prominent Ahl-e-Hadith leader killed by terrorists
Prominent religious figure and Jamiat-e-Ahli Hadees chief Moulvi Showkat Ahmad Shah was on Friday killed in an improvised explosive device (IED) blast outside a mosque in Maisuma area of the city, police officials said.

Mr. Shah, who was critically injured in the explosion which took place around 12.30 p.m., was rushed to a city hospital where he succumbed to injuries, they said.

Another youth, identified as Munir Ahmad Mir, was also critically injured in the blast.

Although the exact cause of the explosion is being investigated, police suspect that militants have used an IED planted on a bicycle near the rear entrance of the mosque where Shah used to lead the Friday prayers.

Several attempts were made on the life of Shah in the past.

Mr. Shah was also actively involved in separatist politics and was very close to JKLF chief Mohammad Yasin Malik.


You sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.


He had earlier condemned stone-pelting as un-Islamic.
IED blast kills Valley cleric who opposed stone-pelting
Ehsan Fazili
Tribune News Service

Srinagar, April 8
A prominent religious leader and the chief of Jamiat-e-Ahl-e-Hadees, Showkat Ahmad, Shah was killed in an IED blast outside a mosque here today where he had come to offer Friday prayers.

An opponent of violence who had denounced stone-pelting and was engaged with Centre’s interlocutors, Showkat (55) was declared brought dead in a hospital, the police said. He had survived two assassination bids earlier — militants had fired at his car in 2006 and hurled a grenade at his house in Lal Bazar in 2008. He was opposed to stone-pelting, which, he described, was un-Islamic.

Drawing criticism from separatists and political leaders alike, the killing comes three days after a grenade was hurled at the vehicle of Nowhatta SDPO in the city on Tuesday. No militant organisation has so far claimed responsibility for the killing.

Shah had earlier met one of the interlocutors and discussed with him a possible road map for restoring peace in the Valley. He was among the first to demand a fresh inquiry into killings of separatist leaders, including Mirwaiz Farooq, Abdul Gani Lone and Qazi Nissar.

Criticised by hardliners who had supported stone-pelting, Shah had challenged the perpetrators of violence to cite even one sermon from Islam which supported such acts.

Known for advocating puritanical Islam, Shah had issued a fatwa against such violent protests. Shah was a tech-savvy individual with a public figure page on social networking site Facebook where many threatening messages were also posted by his opponents. He came under fire from hardliner Syed Ahmed Shah Geelani soon after he issued fatwa against stone-pelting.

Meanwhile, tension prevailed in Lal Chowk area following the incident. All shops and business establishments were closed later, the day coinciding with the call by Hurriyat chief Syed Ali Shah Geelani to protest the issuance of Dogra Certificate for the residents of Jammu region. (With PTI inputs)

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110409/main2.htm

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby partha » 09 Apr 2011 06:00

abhishek_sharma wrote:It is interesting to see how PoK is cut off from the map of India.

Image

http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/ambroemertjtravels.html

Exactly my thought too. Very cleverly done.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby saip » 09 Apr 2011 06:03

anupmisra wrote:
wig wrote:98% of people in India-controlled J&K did not wish to be a part of Pakistan; and 50% in POK did not wish to remain with Pakistan, either.


To the mathematically challenged paki mind (now that's an oxymoron in itself), that's 52% of the population that wishes to remain with the land of the pure.


Oops! For a moment you got me too! :rotfl:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Anindya » 10 Apr 2011 03:21

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Blame-radical-Hindu-outfits-for-Srinagar-clerics-killing-Lashkar-told-scribe/articleshow/7929970.cms

Like Digvijay, LeT wants to blame Hindu organizations for terror.....

SRINAGAR: The army on Saturday said it has intercepted a PoK-based Lashkar-e-Taiba spokesman's conversation with a Kashmiri journalist, asking him to plant a story about the hand of radical Hindu outfits in the killing of a moderate cleric in Srinagar on Friday.

A defence spokesman said Abdullah Gaznavi had asked the journalist to mislead people into believing that the Shiv Sena and the Bajrang Dal had triggered the blast that killed Maulana Showkat Ahmad Shah. But LeT condemned Shah's killing. "It is the handiwork of the activists of right-wing parties, including the Bajrang Dal and Abhinav Bharat. Indian forces and their agencies have perpetrated these acts," a local news agency quoted Gaznavi as saying.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby SSridhar » 10 Apr 2011 11:59

US Confirms Presence of PLA along LoC in POK
Despite the strong Chinese denial, Indian authorities have now acquired "independent" confirmation about the increasing presence of Chinese troops along the line of control (LoC) in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir from none other than US security agencies.

Highly placed sources in the government told TOI on Saturday that US intelligence agencies have confirmed to Indian authorities about the increasing presence of Chinese troops all along the LoC.

The chief of the Northern Command, Lieutenant General K T Parnaik, had last week come out in the open with the disclosure about Chinese soldiers being based in PoK. The Chinese foreign ministry, however, denied this even describing these reports as baseless and ridiculous.

"We have a strong real time intelligence sharing mechanism with the US and they have conveyed the same thing to Indian agencies including RAW – that these troops are stationed all along the LoC in PoK. They conveyed this to Indian agencies independently without us seeking any confirmation from them," said an official, adding that the government at the highest level was aware of the latest developments in PoK.

"Their confirmation seemed to be based on technical intelligence. They said these Chinese troops seemed to be involved in construction activities," he added. He, however, added that this was not the first time there was confirmation from the US about heightened Chinese activity along the LoC but that was restricted to the Gilgit-Baltistan area.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is scheduled to travel to China on April 12 for the BRICS summit. He is slated to have a bilateral meeting with President Hu Jintao along the sidelines of the summit in which he is expected to voice India's concerns over security issues vis-à-vis Pakistan.

While the involvement of Chinese military in infrastructure projects is well known, the sudden spurt in their presence in PoK has caused much consternation in the Indian security establishment. After the assertions made by Lt-Gen Parnaik, the foreign ministry had sought a detailed report from the defence ministry over the issue. Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao, however, had said that raising tension between the two countries was not the right way of handling the situation.

While Pakistan too has described these reports as baseless, it is now well documented that Chinese troops have been around in PoK since late 2009 when they arrived in the Gilgit-Baltistan area supposedly to rebuild the Karakoram highway. According to Indian agencies though, these troops are no longer restricted to this area and that they are now also present in what Pakistan describes as "Azad Kashmir".

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhischekcc » 10 Apr 2011 13:51

Has Digvijay Singh converted to Xnism?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Virupaksha » 10 Apr 2011 14:15


anupmisra
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby anupmisra » 10 Apr 2011 19:31

abhishek_sharma wrote:It is interesting to see how PoK is cut off from the map of India.

Image

http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/ambroemertjtravels.html


This strategy is used by almost all major liberal news magazines including BBC.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby anupmisra » 10 Apr 2011 19:34

manjgu wrote:a) why has this guy been bumped off? close to JKLF ?
b) why no such IED mubarak for Yasin Malik?


Its part of the culling process. Only the purest shall survive: ISI Diktat.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Gagan » 10 Apr 2011 22:11

How about a J&K team in IPL hain ji?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhischekcc » 10 Apr 2011 23:12

^^ What will we call them?

Allah Tigers? (Whoops, there is a terrorist group by this name :mrgreen: )
Chinar brothers? The carpetbaggers?

Or, since Cricket is haraam under Islam - The Blasphemous Eleven!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Airavat » 11 Apr 2011 06:02

Mithun Manhas from J&K is playing in the IPL.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 11 Apr 2011 10:39

Youth shot dead by militants in Baramulla

Militants shot dead a 22 year old youth in Kralteng area of Sopore in North Kashmir's Baramulla district on Sunday evening. Police has launched a cordon in the area to nab the militants who carried out the attack. Reports said that at about 7.45 PM people living in the Kralteng heard some pistol shots and came out of their houses. They saw a 22 year old youth lying in a pool of blood. He has been identified as Sajad Ahmad Dar son of Abdul Rehman Dar resident of Kralteng-Sopore.


Interestingly, Sajad's house is located near the residence of Arifa and Akhtar, the two girls who were killed by militants in the same area on January 31. The houses of both Sajad and the two girls are located near the shrine of Rahim Sahib and the area has always remained in news due to presence of militants and their activities.

In another incident, the ultras set on fire a Panchayat house in Machipora village of Handwara area.

The building suffered extensive damage in the blaze, the sources said.

This is the second incident of militants setting fire to a Panchayat ghar in Handwara area in the last week.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Vikas » 11 Apr 2011 11:49

Airavat wrote:Mithun Manhas from J&K is playing in the IPL.


Doesn't he play for Delhi and more of a Delhi boy? He probably was born in Jammu.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 11 Apr 2011 13:07

"BJP to prepare roadmap for J&K" - glad to see a sustained interest in J&K question even though it offers not much electoral benefit to it. Hope the roadmap proposes solutions in J&K with stronger actions beyond symbolic yatras.

Does anyone know what's a "Dogra certificate" ?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Airavat » 11 Apr 2011 13:26

Like some other communities Dogras get a height relaxation for recruitment in the security forces. Idiot Geelani claims that “Dogra certificate is aimed at converting J&K into a Dogra-desh.” These guys want to pretend that other communities and regions just don't exist and the world should only care about Kashmir and Kashmiri Sunnis.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 11 Apr 2011 16:20

Then "Dogra Certificate" is a good thing as it allows the willing to enlist in paramilitaries and army. Of-course it rankles separatists to see Govt. facilitating loyalists in J&K to bear arms. The message is "loyalty will be rewarded with employment opportunities". This ups the ante and will be a litmus test of Govt's resolve as Hurriyat tries to use it for the usual rabble-rousing. IMHO, on-the-ground moves such as these go a long way towards changing the balance in J&K.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Apr 2011 05:23

Air Force Cadet denied passport
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011 ... ort-57.asp

Suhail Samad, a student of BSc 1st year in Gandhi Memorial College Srinagar, was chosen no less than by Director General of National Cadet Corps for advance training abroad. However, the authorities have so far denied him the travel document on the grounds that his father is a former militant.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 14 Apr 2011 09:12


harbans
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby harbans » 15 Apr 2011 05:44

There's an excellent resource on understanding J & K by Brig Shakti Gurung here. The problem, stalement, solutions from different points of view including the Peace process initiatives is given here. It's a little dated, but an excellent read. The author indeed has a good understanding and grip on the issues. Political, Economic, Military. Highly recommended reading indeed. Will attempt to post on the peace initiatives based on this resource from Brig Shakti Gurung.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... 843jm6aoKQ

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby harbans » 15 Apr 2011 06:52

Here's a jist of the peace process and possible initiatives we might be in for in the next few months.

The Peace Process:


1) Pakistans initiative under Musharaff:

A) The Chenab Plan: Dividing JK along the Chenab. Pak gets: Valley, Poonch, Doda, Rajouri..keeps Northern areas and Gilgit, Baltistan.
India gets Ladhak and most of Jammu. India loses 57% of JK geographical area excluding Pak held areas.

Comment: Chenab and Jhelum feed the Indus in Pakistan. Without Chenab essentially Sindh goes dry, unless there's a major realignment of Paks canal system. Thus Pak needs a part of Jammu to control Chenab. This will not allow India to divert Chenab waters that could essentially create problems in Sindh.

Salients: Importance of Chenab: 17% water of Pak's water supply; India parts with 32,000 sq km of land; Catchment areas of Indus, Jhelum, Chenab all come under Pak.

B ) Andorra Plan: Andorra is a co principality of the Bishop of Urgel (Spain) and the French President. A 1993 agreement gives near autonomy to Andorra. Own currency and constitution. France and Spain share Defense and Foreign affairs. Same is urged for Valley. Soft borders. No change in LOC. Completely demilitarized JK.

C) Demilitarization and Self Governance: Following non acceptance of partition along ethnic lines Mush suggested demilitarization of selected areas in KV. India withdraws from Srinagar, Baramulla, Kupwara. Pak in return promises no terrorism.

Salients: Mush reiterates in June 2006 this demilitarization is the only solution to resolving this problem; Self Governance under Joint management; Umar Mirwaiz AHPC Chairman supports this.; Self Governance + Demmilitarization is an interim arrangement so Valley Muslims can get a feeling of being the Master of their own destiny.

Comment: Demilitarization + Self Governance implies KV goes to Pakistan. Indian reasons: Militants are well entrenched and the moment IA leaves will be in full control. COAS Gen JJ Singh diagrees. GOI rejects it too and states that removing military is a sovereign decision.



2) The Indian Initiative:


A) The Neelam Plan
: India sticks to it's current postion of complete and equal integration of JK to India. From here it envisages shifting the LOC to West and North along the Neelam River so th Northern Areas become independent. The rest of POK joins Pakistan.

Salients: Neelam valley is 144 km deeply forested area and comprises most of what Pak calls Azad kashmir. Neelam enters Pak from India and joins the Jhelum further West.; gilgit and Baltistan become free countries. Results in demilitarization of the Desai plains. Stabilizing Kargil, Drass and Siachen. May appeal to US. India assumes terror camps in Skardu, Gilgit, Deosai plains will close under this plan.


3) Other Initiatives explored/ possible:


1. Kashmir Dialogue Process: In order to broaden the peace initiative MMS invited separatist leaders and non separatist leaders for a Round Table Conf (RTC) in Delhi Feb 06. GOI says AHPC not sole representative of Kashmiri people and are part only of a broader process. RTC 1 rated success. RTC2 held in May 06. Boycotted by AHPC due to Hizbul Mujahideen threat.

2. Siachen: India is in an ironclad position militarily. Agrred to diengagement then joint autheenticaten of AGPL, and finally demilitarization. If Joint authentication is not there then IA feels if PA moves in, it will be very difficult to dislodge them. Tlks last centered on specific grid references to be followed.

3. Plebiscite: Last 65 years a lot of demographic changes taken place. Non muslims have been expelled from both POK and KV. Pakistan has settled people from NWFP and ex servicement in POK and Northern Areas. Difficult to see who is eligible now. Large scale infiltration of Muslims in Buddhist areas. Northern areas had very few Muslims in 47. Now there are very few Non Muslims there.

Option 1: Plebiscite Choice Pak, India or Independence. Expected vote. Completely in India's favor. As separatists will split vote between Pro Pak and Pro Independence.

Option 2: Plebiscite Choice Pak or India only even if the millions ssettled in POK and NA are counted in the vote. Expected India. Why: Total population 12.8 m. Populations as follows: JK 8.5 m; POK: 2.8 m; Northern areas: 1.5 m.
KV has 1.9 m. If all of POK and KV voted Pakistan, India still gets 6.6 m to Pak getting 6.2. Even if some Muslims in other areas vote Pak it will be a very close call in India's favor.

(Condensed from Brig Shakti Gurungs paper on JK Pages 25-29, any errors mine..)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby suryag » 15 Apr 2011 07:11

Status quo is the best, I for one never have understood why we need to talk about J&K

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 15 Apr 2011 11:13

harbans wrote:Option 1: Plebiscite Choice Pak, India or Independence. Expected vote. Completely in India's favor. As separatists will split vote between Pro Pak and Pro Independence.

Option 2: Plebiscite Choice Pak or India only even if the millions ssettled in POK and NA are counted in the vote. Expected India. Why: Total population 12.8 m. Populations as follows: JK 8.5 m; POK: 2.8 m; Northern areas: 1.5 m.
KV has 1.9 m. If all of POK and KV voted Pakistan, India still gets 6.6 m to Pak getting 6.2. Even if some Muslims in other areas vote Pak it will be a very close call in India's favor.

(Condensed from Brig Shakti Gurungs paper on JK Pages 25-29, any errors mine..)


HarbansJi: the paper must be old - 2001 census had J&K population as 10.1 million and 2011 census has it 12.5 million. But I'm sure the proportions are in the ballpark. The 2011 census shows 25% population growth in J&K a %age larger than any neighbouring state. A district-wise breakup is still not available, so I'm keeping fingers crossed - it could be either way.

Although results of plebiscite are most probably going to be pro-india more than pro-pak, plebiscite is definitely not an option, as the sacrifices made by indian soldiers count for more than any secessionist votes.

SuryaJi: status quo is not an option - every COAS has asked for political solution in the past 2 decades. There's no reason why steps towards a long-term solution by effecting a demographic change in J&K should not be taken right away. TSP has had no qualms flooding PoK with settlers, why should we ?

The author, and others, usually make a compendium of current solutions and why the won't work and summarize with words like ...

Kashmir ... is a problem like diabetes ... which you can keep under control by taking shots of insulin ... but for which there is no permanent cure


The author recommends "Option 3" which is again a series of short-term symptomatic, insulin-shot fixes combined with hopes that they will "win over" secessionist.

But there are only vague sentences like ...

This has to be comprehensively addressed on all fronts, political, economic, social and military, and needs to be eveolved from India's national aims and objectives to protect core values


I like to assume the above means "demographic change". But given the intentional ambiguity, it is just speculation. Why this ambiguity in even mentioning that as a solution ? I can understand if some people want to dismiss it and some want to embrace it. But I haven't read a single mainstream thought from India which even considers it as a solution (maybe I don't read that much).

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Prem » 16 Apr 2011 04:43

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... igion-play

5. What role does religion play?]
Young stone-throwers – the ones who pelted Indian troops last summer after they fired on crowds – insist the dispute is nationalist, not religious.
"This is not a religious fight. It is a fight for land," says a 20-year-old businessman. "Though the majority are Muslims, it doesn't mean we want an Islamic state," says a 29-year-old computer professional. The state should be governed by democracy, with sharia law a personal matter, says a 31-year-old businessman.Traditionally, Kashmiris have practiced Sufi Islam and lived alongside a sizable Hindu population. During the 1990s, most of the Hindus fled the Kashmir Valley after attacks from militants. Kashmiri Muslims often lament the exodus, claiming it was not their doing, while the Hindu exiles insist they were the victims of intolerant, militant Islam.The two main separatist leaders mix religion and politics. Syed Ali Shah Geelani has been a member of Jamaat-e Islami, a Pakistan-based religious party that calls for sharia. He wants Kashmir to be part of an Islamic state, one where there would be no discrimination based on religion and girls would be educated, separately.The other leader, Umar Farooq, holds the religious title of Mirwaiz, or spiritual leader of Kashmir's Muslims. He preaches separatism after Friday prayers from his seat in Kashmir's most important mosque. However, Farooq has been making his case to Indians and the wider world with the language of secular democracy.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby menon s » 16 Apr 2011 20:37

In international terms, the movement for a free Kashmir is now dead. By Vir Sangvi

The traditional Western view of Pakistan fell into two categories. The first was the view of many Western governments that Pakistan was an important strategic ally. It had helped America in the past, serving as a gateway to China in 1971, joining up with the Americans to oppose communism during the Cold War, helping damage the Soviet empire by hosting the American adventure in Afghanistan and now, by functioning as a bulwark against Islamisation and wielding influence over anti-American forces in Afghanistan. According to this view, India was a difficult country to align with. Its leaders were arrogant. It made a fetish out of pursuing an independent foreign policy. When it came to Kashmir, the Indians had to yield some ground because the issue mattered so much to the West’s Pakistani allies.


The second important view of Pakistan was the view of Western liberals. They saw Pakistan as a country where a brave civilian elite was fighting enormous challenges. The population was largely illiterate. Poverty was widespread. A corrupt army establishment controlled power. Against these odds, Western-leaning liberals were fighting to establish democracy.According to this view, it was vital that India yielded some ground on Kashmir. First of all, India’s claim to Kashmir was dodgy. Western liberals argued that New Delhi rigged elections and that the majority of Kashmiri Muslims wanted out of the Indian Union. India only managed to retain Kashmir through the use of military power which involved massive human rights violations. Moreover, Kashmir was an emotive issue in Pakistan and one of the keys to the army’s hold over that country. If India yielded on Kashmir then it would strengthen the hands of Pakistani democrats and make it easier for them to convince their people that they, not the army, were good for Pakistan.


Both views had the effect of damaging India on the world stage. At a governmental level, Pakistani ministers and diplomats would promise America Islamabad’s undying support in the war of the moment (against the Russians, against Najibullah, against terror) and then demand billions of dollars in military aid. The weapons so procured would be used against India. And in return for ISI cooperation, Western intelligence agencies would turn a blind eye to ISI’s activities in India, even when these involved terrorism.The liberal view was as damaging to us. We were constantly given self-righteous lectures about human rights and about respecting the will of the Kashmiri people. Our very claim to Kashmir was disregarded and we were told that it was our job to strengthen Pakistan’s civilian politicians. (Why this should be our job was never satisfactorily explained.)


In these circumstances, who can support the idea of self-determination for Kashmir? In international terms, the movement for a free Kashmir is now dead.
All this has profound implications for India. Kashmir is off the table. And Pakistan is not just our problem: it is the whole world’s problem.
My fear is that we in India do not recognise how much things have changed. We still talk about engaging with Pakistani democrats and want to light candles at the Wagah border. Those initiatives were always doomed. But now, they are also irrelevant.


So much for Wagah Kandle kissers, is VIR watching BR! Birathers read it in full here.
http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint- ... 69061221,0


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