LCA News and Discussions

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jun 2011 06:18

Wait till LCA Mk2 arrive.. IAF will go it is a 4 legged mature cheetah!

The elta 2052 news was the only heart burner for us, but I guess LRDE is working hard taking this precious project away from HAL. So, big deal if Tellis feels bad that the teens never got selected.. even we have burned so badly since pok2, with nasty khan politics.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jun 2011 06:56

Actually I liked that Tellis article. I think it was informative. For example he states that the F-16 would never be in contention because it flies like a brick with conformal tanks. And I was quiet surprise to learn that F/A 18 is limited to 7.5G - a bit more than the 7 G prototype of the LCA.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jun 2011 07:31

shiv wrote:Actually I liked that Tellis article. I think it was informative. For example he states that the F-16 would never be in contention because it flies like a brick with conformal tanks. And I was quiet surprise to learn that F/A 18 is limited to 7.5G - a bit more than the 7 G prototype of the LCA.

Well, yes and no. The airframe is fully 9G capable. The export "Air Force" versions in service with other countries are fully 9G capable per what I understand. It is only in USN service it is G limited, where it is anyways was primarily a striker with A2A being the role of the F-14 Tomcats. With the new Super Hornets coming in, and the F-14s being retired, it is only now that the Hornets transitioned from being a striker to a full multi role.

But all said,the radar and senor fusion in the F-18 must have been simply the top of the heap and unmatched by any of the other contenders. Pity, it's basic airframe is not upto scratch.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 06 Jun 2011 07:44

cough cough LCA dhaaga not the never ending dhaaga

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Jun 2011 07:46

vina: posting a reply to your post in the MMRCA thread...

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jun 2011 10:08

LCA-Tejas has completed 1520 Test Flights successfully. (10-Jan-2011).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-192,PV3-255,LSP1-60,LSP2-160,PV5-22,LSP3-24,LSP4-25,LSP5-2)

LCA-Tejas has completed 1643 Test Flights successfully. 26-May-2011).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-205,PV3-275,LSP1-67,LSP2-174,PV5-36,LSP3-42,LSP4-37,LSP5-27)

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Jun 2011 00:19

Unidentified store on LCA:

sharma.abhinav · Post by **sharma.abhinav** » 09 Jun 2011 01:22

Unidentified store on LCA:

That sir I think is not any unidentified store on the outermost pylon, but if I am right its the launcher for the R-73 missile that Tejas carries. It only is empty (without store) which would mean that the missile had been fired before this pic was taken.

saps · Post by **saps** » 10 Jun 2011 16:46

absolutely right its R-73 pylon as it is called. Its rail launched so the grooves as visible..

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jun 2011 20:35

Looking at MRCA selection heading towards a delta winged a/c, there could be lot of things LCA could gain from the selected a/c.

I think, LCA can look at Rafale for port side pods and fin top pods, or towed decoy units of Ef2ks., that could be very interesting addtions to becoming a 4 legged rapotric beast.

Passive sensors is another area, where we have not heard much on our puppy. Any news here?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Jun 2011 21:46

Interesting observation SaiK. The fact that the two MMRCA contendors left are delta wings will likely help the Tejas in her development. GTRE and Snecma are already partnering on the Kaveri if I am not mistaken and Dassault has even offered to put the Kaveri on the Rafale.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2011 22:11

Rakesh, The angst of the service person is against GTRE. He has no problems with the imported engines from EF-200 or GE-F414. His ire is at GTRE with Snecma core. The reason could be the Rs 1500 cores spent without achieving targets. Maybe he doesn't realies that money is drop in bucket.

Bit as long a such people control decision making and go after petty things then there will be no progress.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jun 2011 23:07

Perhaps the angst becomes a blessing in disguise, making GTRE now delinked from LCA deliverable, could focus on 105kN variant for LCA, and aMCA. If grumov is successful, and delinked from LCA critical path, why bother to go for ECO core? Kabini-105 should be the objective.

I like the angst to drive GTRE to focus on these objectives. I am sure after grumov tests, GTRE would be reorgnaized before K (105kN) begins.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Jun 2011 23:53

Rakesh wrote:Interesting observation SaiK. The fact that the two MMRCA contendors left are delta wings will likely help the Tejas in her development. GTRE and Snecma are already partnering on the Kaveri if I am not mistaken and Dassault has even offered to put the Kaveri on the Rafale.

I would beg to differ here. There is nothing super-dooper about the euro wings. They are well known configurations. Infact, if one understands the aerodynamics of the Tejas wing, one can argue that the designers were VERY well versed in their understanding of the delta wing. Also though the effect of the canard as just a stabilator (as in the EF) was not tried (not known in public), canards in the form of over-wing vortex generator (as in the rafale) were studied and rejected. There are numerous ways for delaying the separation on the Tejas wing. I am kind of sure that the AoA is limited (at present) by the (apprehensions on the) intakes. If the apprehension was do to flow separation, they would have easily added a strake above and in front of the wing (like in the EF/Mirage 2000).

Also I strongly believe that the hydraulic housing is big for aerodynamic reasons and in all practical reasons would anyways get blended with the pylons.

Our FCS too is very well tested and actually in certain cases worked better than the F-16 XL which was renowned for its FCS.

I think we would probably learn how to add strength for further pylons. It would be wonderful if we could push the wheels into the wings too.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 10 Jun 2011 23:58

SaiK wrote:... why bother to go for ECO core?

I don't think it is ECO core, but a new design with Snecma's material tech. They are planning to match performance of highest thrust GE414. ECO core will not do it. See the quotes below.

http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscent ... 01001.html

The F414-GE-INS6 is the highest-thrust F414 model

Highest thrust F414 is 120KN.

http://www.livemint.com/articles/2011/0 ... l?atype=tp

While Snecma will bring in critical technology for the hot engine core, DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) will work on the cold sections around it.

“GTRE will have 50% technology work-share and Snecma will have the other half. We will be closing price negotiations within a month,” said Prahlada, chief controller, research and development, DRDO

....
Prahlada declined to reveal the estimated cost of the Snecma-GTRE project, but said the new engine will be comparable in pricing and performance to the GE-414. DRDO plans to replace the GE engines on the LCA Mk-I with the Snecma-GTRE engine. “We have plans to fit the engine on all platforms, including the proposed advanced medium combat aircraft and unmanned combat air vehicle,” Prahlada said.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd will manufacture the engines in India. Prahlada said the agreement is to make 100 engines in the first batch.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 11 Jun 2011 01:01

More proof that it is a new design from AKA.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-5045

"It is proposed to develop production version Kaveri (K10) engine on co-design and co-development basis with Snecma of France. The technical evaluation for this proposal has been completed. Tender purchase committee is negotiating the commercial aspects," Antony said in a written reply during question hour.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Jun 2011 01:23

that was only if Kaveri program comes in way of LCA delivery to IAF. Because, it is de-linked from LCA, hence why bother to go for ECO core, and let it be all Kabini-120kN core [assumption: we would be soon successful with grumov tests].

--

the wing dynamics between LCA and MRCA would be the same was the observation, where we can get valuable data having to directly get a ToT and local production.

Yes, the pylon strengths and materials and structural designs we can learn a lot, and for this the delta winged design helps us as well.

Also, we could think off extended fuselage to incorporate more LRUs as internal systems - retractable devices, pods that are now external, etc.. Rafale itself is tight there, as much is LCA now, so we could look at the data what Ef2k provides. Again assumptions that increased engine core is available for us in the near future.

Our FCS may be well tested, but it can't be staying at the same state for ever.. next cycle, would be making it better, and engaging our brains behind it to augment the system.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2011 18:49

via Livefist
Finally, India's Carrier Fighter Ready To Fly

The carrier variant of India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA Tejas) will make its maiden flight in July. It should be said that confidence for the LCA Navy's first flight has taken its time coming. The programme team had initially aimed at getting the naval trainer prototype NP-1 airborne in December last year.

The DRDO's chief controller for aeronautical programmes Dr Prahlada was recently quoted by a newspaper as saying, "Being the first flight of the LCA naval programme, we want to ensure that everything is put in place before the first flight and that the programme is as successful as the Indian Air Force (IAF) version which has had no accidents since it started flight tests on January 4, 2001."

The LCA Navy programme team has faced challenges in strengthening the platform's landing gear and refining its sink-rate parameters.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 12 Jun 2011 20:12

LOOKS HAWWT!!!

abhishek-nayak · Post by **abhishek-nayak** » 12 Jun 2011 20:19

will this 2 seater NP1 be used as a trainer????

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Jun 2011 22:54

HiRes:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wA0F4x9rENo/T ... SL8403.JPG

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Jun 2011 01:01

wow! the only thing it lacks is the stealth shapes and perhaps a divertless and a retractable nipple. btw, has the nose area reduced relative to LCA for IAF?

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 13 Jun 2011 01:51

Landing gear.....is definitely on steroids.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Jun 2011 03:23

are you saying it is over-engineered? i would keep it as is, and focus on T:W aspects. We can revisit on the weight problems after FoC, and subsequent upgrades.

--

Q: Just like Rafale, is it possible to have port side pods for LCA?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 14 Jun 2011 18:43

Tracking the Tejas: LSP-7 will fly in August: ADA chief

The 7th Limited Series Production (LSP-7) platform of India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will now take to the skies in August 2011. Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) head Mr P.S. Subramanyam confirmed to Tarmak007 in Bangalore on June 14 that the programme is well on track, despite the delays.
“Productionisation is a gradual process. The LSP-7 and LSP-8 aircraft will be very close to the final version, not just in terms of the design, but also in terms of how they are manufactured. As things stand now, the LSP-7 will fly in August and the LSP-8 in November,” the ADA chief said. Tejas LSP-5 first flew on November 19 2010. (LSP-6 will be an experimental vehicle specifically for high Angle of Attack. LSP-7 will be the 12th aircraft joining the Tejas flight-line, spanning over 10 years.)
...
...
Mr Subramanyam said that a team of technicians and ground-support personnel would assist the IAF in establishing the Tejas Squadron at the Sulur Air Base (near Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu). “For proper product support, personnel have to be identified and trained. Labs and maintenance facilities have to be set up. During the transition phase, we will be involved with all of this,” he said.
The Tejas platforms (all combined) have logged over 1,650 flights so far, clocking close to 1,000 hours. “After we cross the 1,000-hour mark, we will have a small celebration,” the ADA boss said, smiling and stroking his trademark well-trimmed beard.
...
...

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 15 Jun 2011 01:42

When is LSP-6 going to fly then ?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 15 Jun 2011 04:18

What's the radar the LCA will finally have? Last I heard it was between EL 2032 and Kopyo? Although I think the IAF went for the former with LRDE developing "indigenous" antenna ? I hope better sense prevails and they go for a radar that is not restricted to WVR and doesn't hamper other functionalities...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jun 2011 04:21

Per chaiwalas (tea stall owners) LCA would be with an India specific Elta 2032 for quite some. The entire details of the package will be known only after FoC, was the information given. Now, if Elta 2052 comes back to the news, bring it up, which means LRDE has some hot news.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 15 Jun 2011 05:31

putnanja wrote:Tracking the Tejas: LSP-7 will fly in August: ADA chief

I dont understand this jump from LSP-5 to LSP-7 without getting LSP-6 to fly... If it is a testbed for high AoA, be it... tell us when it is going to fly... and keep up the good word... or is it already flying?
The delay from LSP-5 to now is really long...

Current status
LCA-Tejas has completed 1649 Test Flights successfully. 09-Jun-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-205,PV3-278,LSP1-67,LSP2-174,PV5-36,LSP3-42,LSP4-37,LSP5-30)

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 15 Jun 2011 06:26

With the teens already eliminated, let's hope that US loses interest in MMRCA and suspend the informal ban on 2052 (assuming that they banned it to prevent the competitors from speedily getting a functional ASEA).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jun 2011 08:03

We should be more concerned on LSP-6, sustained turn-rate and max AoA that will remove the 3 legged cheetah feeling., than seek AESA for LCA. I think that takes lower priority now, and the reason LSP-6 may be crucial in removing the bad name IAF chief has given.

let us keep our fingers crossed.

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 15 Jun 2011 08:40

If LSP 7 will fly in August, then LSP 6 should fly atleast in July one would think. Did someone not mention a few pages back that LSP 6 is ready to fly (and has been given a spin recovery chute).

But more confusing is the 2 month delay between LSP 7 and 8.

Moreover, earlier i thought that HAL might have started work on atleast the structures of SP, but if they are using LSP's 7 and 8 to perfect the LCA manf line, then it means that work on SP has not started yet. Or maybe they decided to make the LSP 7 and 8 the first products from new LCA line.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 15 Jun 2011 10:11

Though i am a jingo of the pure variety i dont want to believe Shri PS this time. He has broken our hearts so many times

. I would want to know the inside story behind the delay in some memoirs

Below is the press release when lsp-5 flew

If the delivery schedules are met, then the Indian Air Force will have LSP-7 and LSP-8 for user evaluation trials by March 2011. LSP-6 will be a test vehicle for high angle of attack. The Tejas squadron is expected to be in Bengaluru by mid-2011 and the first two series production aircraft (SP-1, SP-2) also should be ready by then.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 15 Jun 2011 11:53

suryag wrote:i dont want to believe Shri PS this time. He has broken our hearts so many times
Indian Air Force will have LSP-7 and LSP-8 for user evaluation trials by March 2011. LSP-6 will be a test vehicle for high angle of attack. The Tejas squadron is expected to be in Bengaluru by mid-2011...

I understand how you feel but no point in taking it out on PS, afterall HAL can only do so much. They are extremely careful with what they are doing and thus moving sllllllllllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwly. Just last week, we saw that one of the senior test pilots resigned, we don't know how the Morale of these pilots would have been in the preceding weeks (or after the promotion lists were announced). All this affects sortie rates as well as production rates... I'll be glad to have FOC before 2012 end.

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 16 Jun 2011 04:53

Finally some encouraging words from the CAS Naik about LCA.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/06/i ... -naik.html

On LCA: Naik said the LCA programme is shaping up well in the run up to the Final Operational Clearance. “We are happy that now we are finally progressing and that there could be light at the end of the tunnel. The LCA will enter into squadron service by the end of the year and then will become operational in a couple of years. Similarly, we will have six or seven operational squadrons of the LCA Mark-II,”

Hopefully this change in attitude is due to the progress made by LCA test team (night trials etc.) and not due to the backlash that he received after his IOC comments.

Good to see that there will be atleast 120 - 140 Mk2 for IAF and adding about 60 for Navy, we are looking at 200 Mk2 (plus any exports that may happen). Things certainly look bright for LCA.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Jun 2011 06:02

^^^^^

Nice.

Change of heart with a few weeks to go? (I do not think so. However, .............)

Missing in all this is the nebulous light 5th gen air craft issue. trust there are a few more press interviews down the line.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 16 Jun 2011 07:45

Gurneesh wrote:Finally some encouraging words from the CAS Naik about LCA.
Good to see that there will be atleast 120 - 140 Mk2 for IAF and adding about 60 for Navy, we are looking at 200 Mk2...

ACM Naik probably wants to set some bruised egos straight before he demits office. Fortunately CAS(desig) Browne is a major fan of the LCA. if this prophesy of 120-140MK2s (apart from the 20 MKIs) is true then It would be a great day for Indian Aviation. LCAs would take over the role of defence and CAP and free up the heavier platforms for offensive roles. How effective would LCAs be as escorts for AWACS and Tankers?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jun 2011 08:16

Tejas seems to have only 2 wet pylons (inboard wing). imo it should add another one below centerline in M2K style for the long endurance escort mission of tankers/awacs operating areas. figure out some side pylons or dual pylons(F15E style) to mount 4 AAMs and 3 drop tanks.

as you can see in this pic, the big inboard pylons of the F-15E each have *two* side pylons, and here it carries one amraam and one aim9x

...talk of carrying a truckload of A2G yet still being armed to the teeth for A2A...

marimuthu · Post by **marimuthu** » 16 Jun 2011 08:41

Singha wrote:Tejas seems to have only 2 wet pylons (inboard wing).

Nope. Other than outboard pylons, all the other five are wet ones.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jun 2011 08:54

but F-15E style pylons will add teeth to the endurance.