LCA News and Discussions

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby krishnan » 10 Dec 2011 07:12

People who are asking where is LCA NP-1

old news though

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/10/l ... layed.html
Bangalore: It's official. The undercarriage of the naval version (Naval Prototype NP-1) of India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is bulky by 400-500 kg. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), who are jointly developing the NP-1, is burning the midnight oil to iron out what they call 'nagging developmental issues.' NP-1 is a trainer with tandem seating and NP-2 will be a single-seat fighter.
Insiders associated with the programme attributed the delay in NP-1's first flight to the undercarriage. “In September 2010, we observed that the undercarriage was over-sized. During traction-retraction and the undercarriage's incorporation into the fuselage, there were many surprises awaiting us. This is a very critical piece with the hitting impact on the ship going to be much higher,” an official with HAL's Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC) said. The official claimed that the issues related to the arrestor hook, landing gear and LEVCONs (control surfaces which allow for better low-speed handling) are being addressed completely. Interestingly, the undercarriage was built by HAL.
With the Naval Project Team (NPT) monitoring every bit of the NP-I closely, the official told The New Indian Express that all future aircraft in the naval programme will come with a new undercarriage. In September this year, NP-1 had successfully completed the engine ground run (EGR) and the taxi trials are set to begin soon. “We will fly the NP-I with the same undercarriage making some slight corrections. If a lighter undercarriage has to be integrated at this stage, it will delay the programme further. We cannot rush the project. Young boys are putting their hearts out and working seven days a week. Making planes are not child's play,” the official said.
Sources at ADA say that efforts are in full swing to make the fly NP-1 ahead of Navy Day (December 4). Capt Maolankar of National Flight Test Centre is likely to fly NP-1 on its maiden flight. During the roll out of NP-1 on July 6, 2010, an excited Defence Minister A K Antony had said that he was confident that the ADA-HAL-Navy team would swing it and make NP-1 fly by December end. “It will be the best New Year gift to the nation,” Antony had said then.
With yet another New Year throttling down for a landing, it is left to be seen whether Team NP-1 can gift Antony an X'Mas gift in the form of a first flight.
Weight and watch!

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 10 Dec 2011 08:25

Eagerly waiting for LSP7 and NP1 to fly :((

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Yagnasri » 10 Dec 2011 21:55

NP1 looks very intimidating. Hope it flys soon.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby arnabh » 10 Dec 2011 22:45

"We must also focus on Indian companies. The LCA programme has spawned some 300 small and medium Indian companies that made a signal contribution to the programme. Many of these, according to one very knowledgeable source, were managed by single individuals or by very small groups of people who are now getting on in years and have no assurance that their businesses will survive in the long term. Indian private majors could give these small players the necessary assistance or buy them outright. That is, however, possible only if the government encourages the private player to invest in these projects. Big corporates can easily do that with a little persuasion by the government."



http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/TimetoA ... dke_291111

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby member_21011 » 10 Dec 2011 22:55

krishnan wrote:People who are asking where is LCA NP-1

old news though

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/10/l ... layed.html
Bangalore: It's official. The undercarriage of the naval version (Naval Prototype NP-1) of India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is bulky by 400-500 kg. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), who are jointly developing the NP-1, is burning the midnight oil to iron out what they call 'nagging developmental issues.' NP-1 is a trainer with tandem seating and NP-2 will be a single-seat fighter.
Insiders associated with the programme attributed the delay in NP-1's first flight to the undercarriage. “In September 2010, we observed that the undercarriage was over-sized. During traction-retraction and the undercarriage's incorporation into the fuselage, there were many surprises awaiting us. This is a very critical piece with the hitting impact on the ship going to be much higher,” an official with HAL's Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC) said. The official claimed that the issues related to the arrestor hook, landing gear and LEVCONs (control surfaces which allow for better low-speed handling) are being addressed completely. Interestingly, the undercarriage was built by HAL.
With the Naval Project Team (NPT) monitoring every bit of the NP-I closely, the official told The New Indian Express that all future aircraft in the naval programme will come with a new undercarriage. In September this year, NP-1 had successfully completed the engine ground run (EGR) and the taxi trials are set to begin soon. “We will fly the NP-I with the same undercarriage making some slight corrections. If a lighter undercarriage has to be integrated at this stage, it will delay the programme further. We cannot rush the project. Young boys are putting their hearts out and working seven days a week. Making planes are not child's play,” the official said.
Sources at ADA say that efforts are in full swing to make the fly NP-1 ahead of Navy Day (December 4). Capt Maolankar of National Flight Test Centre is likely to fly NP-1 on its maiden flight. During the roll out of NP-1 on July 6, 2010, an excited Defence Minister A K Antony had said that he was confident that the ADA-HAL-Navy team would swing it and make NP-1 fly by December end. “It will be the best New Year gift to the nation,” Antony had said then.
With yet another New Year throttling down for a landing, it is left to be seen whether Team NP-1 can gift Antony an X'Mas gift in the form of a first flight.
Weight and watch!


just wondering, "are we hiding our impotent DPSU behind national pride?"
What is this going to cost us in the medium to long run?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby S_Prasad » 10 Dec 2011 23:02

I thought LM was brought in as a consultant for the under carriage......Guess somebody didn't do what they were supposed to do!

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby karan_mc » 10 Dec 2011 23:02

I an really tired of waiting for first flight of NP-1 , i know it is a new platform and has some issues , but i am amazed what is stop-ing first flight of LSP-7 ?? :(( :(( at this rate 2012 we will see were few rollout of Tejas fighters , i expected rollout of at least 4 SP aircraft's in 2012 but i am not sure now :(

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Vivek K » 11 Dec 2011 08:05

^^^^+1

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 11 Dec 2011 09:03

icecoolben wrote:just wondering, "are we hiding our impotent DPSU behind national pride?"
What is this going to cost us in the medium to long run?


More likely we are hinging our pride on dates given by everyone except by the LCA itself.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 11 Dec 2011 09:16

Heavier undercarriage should not prevent it taking off or landing for test flights, right?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 11 Dec 2011 09:18

SaiK wrote:Heavier undercarriage should not prevent it taking off or landing for test flights, right?


True but what is the point in simply flying it if it is not going to be usable without modification and more tests?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 11 Dec 2011 09:35

absolutely agree.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 12 Dec 2011 12:14

Flight test numbers update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1756 Test Flights successfully. (07-Dec-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-325,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-52)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1755 Test Flights successfully. (02-Dec-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-325,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-51)

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 13 Dec 2011 10:19

Indian Light Combat Aircraft Slipping A Year

Nothing that we didnt know of but posting for purpose of record keeping
NEW DELHI — Fresh troubles are delaying India’s indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft program, with final operational clearance slipping by over a year to December 2014.

Testing challenges and performance-parameter issues have delayed flight testing, operational envelope expansion and certification, leading to the Indian air force (IAF) reluctantly agreeing to a 12-month slip in declaration of the aircraft as fully operational. The IAF is viewing this as a setback to timely delivery of production series aircraft, though squadron service is still set to begin in mid-2013 in the initial operational configuration.

The seventh limited series production aircraft, a replica of the Tejas in its production series configuration and already delayed by over six months, is slated to make it first flight this month. Different versions of the aircraft are currently undergoing weapons and sensor tests at three air bases in the country. The program is designed to integrate and test beyond-visual-range weapons, rockets and guided bombs, expand the platform’s flight envelope and improve turn rate.

A senior IAF officer says, “The parameters listed as untested during initial operational clearance in January 2011 — including all-weather clearance, lightning clearance and wake penetration — are yet to be proven on the Tejas. Certain other performance issues, including minimum/maximum g-limits and certain precision weapons tests, are to be demonstrated. The program has sought time beyond the deadline of June 2011.” isnt this already known looks like AW rehashed some earlier report

IAF leaders, who had grudgingly accepted initial operating capability in January after ceding certain marked-down performance parameters, are not happy. A year-long delay in deployment of the Tejas means further pressure on squadron numbers. The Tejas was to be deployed in a refurbished air base at Sulur in South India by July 2013, though it is now likely to be the end of 2013.

An official with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas program, says: “The IAF has agreed to a 12-month extension for final operational clearance, contingent on certain additional performance parameters. It is a minor delay that will be made up in tests. We have completed an important series of weapons tests both at day and night.”

Preliminary design and configuration studies of the $542 million Tejas Mk. 2 effort, to build a variant powered by the General Electric F414 turbofan, have been completed. The more powerful aircraft is expected to see prototyping by 2013 and a first flight by 2014 — right about the time the Tejas Mk. 1 is declared fully operational.

The IAF has said it will induct at least 83 Mk. 2 versions of the Tejas if it meets performance requirements, including a smaller maintenance footprint, shorter takeoff and better turn rate.

First Flight

In a parallel development, the Stobar (short takeoff but arrested recovery) version of the Tejas, the LCA-Navy, has finally been declared ready for its first flight, following a delay of more than 18 months. Defense Research Development Organization chief V.K. Saraswat indicated that concerns over platform safety had been overcome and that the team was finally confident about entering the flight-test phase.

Persistent doubts about the platform’s landing gear, recovery mechanism and approach control laws had pushed back flight tests. Following successful engine ground runs starting in September, then taxi trials, the program team is finally ready to put the jet into the air.

“There’s a great deal of pressure,” says a senior source on the LCA-Navy program. “This is India’s first indigenous naval carrier-borne fighter. We hope to shift testing to Goa by the middle of 2012 and begin testing at the Indian navy’s shore-based test facility for arrested recovery operations.”

Both the air force and navy variants of the Tejas have depended on technical consultations from EADS to optimize systems and speed up flight test and certification.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 13 Dec 2011 10:26

we must persist with these programs no matter what the cost .... the legs of the table are being made. without these no further efforts like amca can be done. priceless banks of test data and design subtleties that are NEVER sold on the market are being built up even when a test fails. in due course we too will be like boeing or LM who can look at 10 options and right away eliminate 8 given their vast experience and focus on the 2 promising ones. right now we are probably having to explore 6/10

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby P Chitkara » 13 Dec 2011 12:18

Spot on Singha ji. The LMs, Boeings etc of the world have gathered data and experience over decades. This is the unglamorous part whose importance will never be told and never be shared. When the first jets came out, all of them were underpowered by today’s standards but were cutting edge for that era. They simply kept on improving over the decades to be where they are today.

Imagine, we have to do all that in a much more compressed timeline. So, unless we steal as the pandas do, it will take time. The silver lining though is that the follow ons or the next gen will have much shorter timelines.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 13 Dec 2011 12:38

Hope/Pray they fly both the birds before the end of this month. The article says BVR integration, but wasnt that supposed to happen by end of 2012 using Derby ?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Dec 2011 13:17

and the delays are not disproportionate considering how other fighter programmes fare...

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby RKumar » 13 Dec 2011 18:08

Different versions of the aircraft are currently undergoing weapons and sensor tests at three air bases in the country.


What is happening in Goa, leh and banglore :P

the Stobar (short takeoff but arrested recovery) version of the Tejas, the LCA-Navy, has finally been declared ready for its first flight


hope to see first flight any time during this week :mrgreen:

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby karan_mc » 13 Dec 2011 18:21

a question to Maha gurus , what after NP-1 and 2 ? i had read some where Navy will order some MK-1 aircraft's , but not in big numbers and will only operate MK-2 , since MK-1 will not be ac capable , so whts the road map ?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Pratyush » 13 Dec 2011 21:09

The IN IIRC had ordered 9 Naval LCAs for the test programme and had put up a budget of 900 crs as well.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 14 Dec 2011 00:06

6 not 9.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby vic » 14 Dec 2011 08:34

It seems that the 6 aircraft which are ordered "may" be Mark-2, so perhaps we will see them only in 2020

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby karan_mc » 14 Dec 2011 09:15

@ vic, so it seems , HAL / ADA have plenty of time to fix the issues currently Naval Tejas is facing ? since real induction will only began in 2020

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 14 Dec 2011 09:36

vic, unlikely, they would need that 6 to carry out the required set of tests. Mk2 numbers are tentatively put at 40 by navy.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SagarAg » 14 Dec 2011 09:40

karan_mc wrote:@ vic, so it seems , HAL / ADA have plenty of time to fix the issues currently Naval Tejas is facing ? since real induction will only began in 2020


2020 :eek: :shock:
A decade to convert an already proven aircraft into its carrier version.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 14 Dec 2011 10:19

Lalmohan wrote:and the delays are not disproportionate considering how other fighter programmes fare...


precisely. Exactly this thought came to my mind when I read this article on issues with the F-35 revealed during the latest Special DoD review

Posting it in full since it is a must read for gaining an insight into how complicated fighter development can be..the 577 Change Requests indicates the magnitude of the task ahead for the F-35 team (although many of these CR's may be minor). The approach used there by the DoD is not very different from what we're seeing from the IAF on the Tejas- place larger production orders after critical milestones are completed. The issues with the F-35C pertaining to its fuel dump system and the arrestor hook will be critical for the N-LCA as well.

OT, but this aircraft is nowhere near being ready for replacing the MRCA competition in India.


A special review by the US Department of Defense has identified 13 ongoing or likely future design problems with the Lockheed Martin F-35 and recommended further cuts during early production.

The "concurrency quick look review", dated 29 November, is timed to influence the DoD's final reviews for the contracting fiscal year 2013 budget, with the F-35 programme facing a production freeze after peaking so far at 34 aircraft in 2010.

The review discovered no "fundamental design risks" large enough to recommend halting new F-35 production altogether, according to the 20-page report, which is stamped "[for official use only] - US only" and signed by five DoD officials, led by deputy assistant secretary of defense for strategic and tactical systems David Ahern.

But the report identifies and provides new details of eight design problems described as "major" risks and five design problems classified as minor risks.

Moreover, Lockheed still has 577 change order requests pending from previous design changes, representing an 18- to 24-month backlog that must be cleared before dealing with fixes for the new design problems, the report said.


The backlog of change orders and the ongoing design problems prompted the review team to challenge the F-35's "concurrent" acquisition strategy, which calls for building hundreds of jets during the decade between first flight in 2006 and the end of development after 2016.

The most challenging phase of the flight test schedule, which includes high angle-of-attack flight, mission systems and weapons release, lies ahead.

As a result, the review team "recommends that further decisions about F-35 production be event driven, based on the achievement of sufficient test data to support increased confidence in design maturity and of a well-controlled process for executing and minimizing design changes across concurrent production", the report said.


Among the eight major design problems, one is classified and not described in the leaked version of the review team's report.

The helmet-mounted display, fuel dump subsystem, integrated power package and arresting hook for the carrier-based F-35C variant remain "major" problems with no root cause or permanent fix identified so far.

The review also found three areas where major problems are "likely", but have not yet been fully studied in ground or flight tests. These include sharp buffeting at high angles of attack, the discovery of more life-limited parts and the minimal tests completed.

Finally, the review also identified five areas with "moderate" risk of increasing production costs as new areas are discovered in development. Software, weight management, thermal concerns, the autonomic logistics information system and lightning protection are on the list.

The review's findings appear to show the five major problems identified last year with the F-35B short take-off and vertical landing variant have been resolved or entered the backlog of change requests.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 14 Dec 2011 10:36

high AOA, lightning protection....sounds familiar :)

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 14 Dec 2011 10:52

exactly. And when the F-35 hasn't yet crossed the high AoA and weapons test milestones (apart from having so many CRs still open), how on earth can it qualify as an MRCA replacement when the basic need of the MRCA was to arrest falling numbers starting as soon as possible?

It is undoubtedly an in-development aircraft and may see further schedule slippages and cost escalations.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 14 Dec 2011 11:22

N-tipped Dhanush set for fresh trial

However, before the Dhanush trial, India’s first carrier-borne naval fighter Light Combat Aircraft Tejas will take to the skies. DRDO Chief V K Saraswat said that the aircraft would go for its maiden flight in the last week of December


Two more weeks to go :((

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Nikhil T » 15 Dec 2011 12:41

Finally, an LCA article that is balanced. Wish TOI and others carry similar reports as well.

India Today: Our Cinderella must step out

It has been called the "Last Chance Aircraft", and worse. Its designers and developers have been excoriated for endless delays. But the time has come to say it: In the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), India may finally have a winner.

We say "may" because the "last mile" is often the most difficult one to cross. This requires first, an emphatic ownership of the step-child by its primary operator, the Indian Air Force(IAF), its chosen manufacturer, the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and its parent, the Ministry of Defence. Second, and most importantly, it needs a serious managerial boost so that the production of the aircraft- whose significant bugs have already been worked out-can be undertaken on a modern industrial scale.

Winner

But the payoffs are tremendous. The country gets a highly capable multi-role fighter which it can acquire in significant numbers at a reasonable cost. It also gets a potential weapons system which it can export, for commercial gain, as well as to push its military diplomacy. It would be fair to say that the LCA is the only significant weapons system created by the country's vast defence research and production base which can compete with contemporary products -including the Chinese JF-17- and win.

Though the IAF says that it is committed to bringing the aircraft into squadron service, its current plans cater for just two squadrons of the aircraft, where they ought to be really talking of several. But that is not entirely the IAF's fault; the process of productionising the aircraft has been excruciatingly slow and past delays have made the IAF leery of putting their eggs in the LCA basket.

Till now, the ADA and HAL have built eight prototypes and six limited series aircraft and it has undertaken some 1800 takeoff and landing cycles without (touch wood) a single accident. Pilots swear by its ease of handling and maneuverability. However, according to reports, the true initial operational clearance (IOC) of the LCA has been delayed yet again. The IOC, which means the aircraft can be flown by any military pilot-not just test pilots- was technically available since January 2011, but there are a range of issues that have yet to be sorted out to the air force's satisfaction.

Now, say reports, the final operational clearance will only be available by the end of 2014. This provides an invaluable opportunity to set in train steps that will ensure that the LCA emerges as the first class product that it intrinsically is.

Simultaneously, the efforts to come up with a Mark 2 version of the aircraft with a more powerful GE F414 turbofan engine, have been completed, with the prototype slated to fly by 2014 as well. And, the naval version of the aircraft which is expected to be used by the country's indigenous aircraft carrier is also in its last stages with two prototypes to take to the air soon.

It is important to see the aircraft in comparison with the others that are flying, both as potential adversaries, as well as competitors for the export market. The aircraft under 10 tons of operational empty weight are the American F-16, the Chinese JF-17, the Swedish Gripen. Of these the LCA is the lightest at just 5.9 tons.

In part this is because of its use of carbon fibre composites. The US and the Chinese aircraft have a carbon composites content of near zero, while the more modern Gripen has 30 per cent content by weight. The LCA has 45 per cent, but as much as 90 per cent of the surface of the LCA is made of carbon fibres. This makes it light, strong and rugged, since the carbon fibre composites neither age nor corrode.

Stealth

But its most important quality is that it does not reflect radar beams, unlike the metallic components of aircraft. In other words, this gives the LCA a naturally low radar signature or 'stealth' characteristics. Given its small size anyway, it is, in the words of a former fighter pilot, "virtually invisible" to adversary fighters.

The use of carbon fibre gives the LCA another advantage: with its low operational empty weight, and compared to an aircraft with similar engines, the LCA has greater thrust to weight ratio. The LCA Mk 2 is likely to have 1.53, compared to the other agile fighter, the F-16's 1.64. The Gripen has 1.44 and the JF-17 has 1.28. Indeed, the LCA's rate of acceleration compares favourably with heavy two-engined fighters like the Eurofighter, which has a thrust to weight ratio of 1.64.

Carbon fibre parts do not deteriorate with age or corrode and hence the navalised version of the LCA will prove a big advantage. But it is true that carbon fibre parts are expensive to make and ideally, the process should be automated and procured in large numbers to keep their prices low. India has already invested a great deal in this technology beginning with the Dhruva programme in the mid-1980s and it is one of the world leaders in such technology.

Clearly, its natural stealth characteristics, low operating costs, maneuverability and its sensor and weapons suite make the LCA a real player in the global market. Indeed, according to an air force officer, the performance of the LCA as a fighter exceeds that of the Mirage 2000, even when the latter is upgraded.

Although the IAF has committed itself to inducting two squadrons of 40 LCAs, its actual needs are much greater. As of now the air force puts "close air support" or missions in support to the army in a low priority. But there is great need for the IAF to take up that mission seriously, especially in the mountain areas, and for that the LCA is the ideal machine. Further, the IAF's reliance on heavy and expensive fighters would make its reaction time to emergencies-cruise missile or UAV ingress at the country's periphery-rather slow because they cannot afford to base their expensive assets too close to the border. Here, the LCA provides a quick reaction option as it can be forward based.

Export

The most interesting aspect of the LCA is in relation to exports. This is clearly the one worldclass product which can be used to woo friends and allies, especially in the neighbourhood. The LCA gives India the option to compete with the Chinese JF-17 in a score of countries including Egypt, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Sri Lanka.

Indeed, there is a wider market, too, if HAL is willing to dream big and do something about it. There is a market for some 3,000 fighters to replace the MiG-21s, F-5s, early model F-16s which will retire in the coming 10-15 years in countries of Eastern Europe, Asia-Pacific and elsewhere. Getting even ten per cent of that market would be a stunning achievement for India.

But to reach that goal, India needs to think big. HAL, is still making its current limited series aircraft by hand, as it were, and it has no experience in sales and marketing abroad. As it is, there will be a need to transform HAL's work culture to make a product to the highest world standards. Equally important would be product support, again an area in which the HAL has not done too well in the past.

But all this cannot be done by the HAL itself. The LCA programme was a national endeavour to lay the foundations for India's aerospace industry. If it is to meet that mandate- and it is on the threshold of doing that- it needs attention right now from the topmost levels of government and the Ministry of Defence.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby P Chitkara » 15 Dec 2011 12:50

Indeed, according to an air force officer, the performance of the LCA as a fighter exceeds that of the Mirage 2000, even when the latter is upgraded.


Coming from the supposedly IAF source - it is music to my ears :D

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby ArmenT » 15 Dec 2011 13:44

Singha wrote:we must persist with these programs no matter what the cost .... the legs of the table are being made. without these no further efforts like amca can be done. priceless banks of test data and design subtleties that are NEVER sold on the market are being built up even when a test fails. in due course we too will be like boeing or LM who can look at 10 options and right away eliminate 8 given their vast experience and focus on the 2 promising ones. right now we are probably having to explore 6/10

Interesting that you should bring this up. If you read Ben Rich's autobiography (was written around the mid 1990s), he mentions that one of the problems facing American aircraft building is the loss of shared knowledge and experience. He points out that in the 50s and 60s, there was a lot more work being done on aircraft research and all his design guys had worked on about 20-25 aircraft projects or so. In the 90s, a designer is considered lucky if he/she gets to to work on more than two aircraft in the course of his/her entire career. Same with most of the aviation workers. As a result of this, a lot of tribal knowledge is being lost. For instance, he points out that the new guys were forgetting some basic safety procedures involving fuel lines that none of the older guys would have missed when assembling an aircraft, because the older guys had worked on several airplanes and learned from mistakes and passed that knowledge among themselves. The newer generation never had the chance to do that.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 15 Dec 2011 13:46

In what way? Both upgraded types have yet to fly ,let alone tested.Certainly,given the ;arge amt. of composites and smaller size,the LCA will b a very capable close combat aircraft,like the Gnat,and when equipped with the latest French/EU/Russian AAMs, "you takes your choice",will be a handful.How effective it will be in the strike role is another matter,depending upone the kind of munitions the IAF is acquiring.As for exports,it is here that the Gripen already has a ccommanding lead,has proven itself in combat,and is still an affordable aircraft to less wealthy nations with larger ambitions.ier-2 nations have already been buying the aircraft and as costs escalate in these days of economic depresion,the G is going to become an attractive option.

We also need to build at least 100-150+ before any nation will consider it perfected enough to buy an LCA.The naval version might attract some customers but it all depends upon the time taken for full production to be complete.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 15 Dec 2011 13:46

Waiting tirelessly for the lsp7&np1 to fly just like Cartman in southpark waits for the ninetendo wii and wants to be frozen until the day it is released in stores

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby skganji » 16 Dec 2011 00:40

Guys, I am not that technical in understanding the specifications , technology behind LCA. I am glad that Defense Ministry has continued this program for last 11 years ever since the first prototype came in 2001. Isn't unkil playing some nasty games or arm twisting techniques to stop India working on the LCA program. Hopefuly , the LCA will get its true IOC by 2014.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby manum » 16 Dec 2011 01:03

Why people sitting in USA I always find ranting against it...anyways, uncle is not arm twisting, its on us to win over our devils...

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 16 Dec 2011 01:13

^Given its small size anyway, it is, in the words of a former fighter pilot, "virtually invisible" to adversary fighters.
for that to happen, they have to have deflector films internally and/or coat internal parts with RAM paints.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_M » 16 Dec 2011 16:23

SaiK wrote:
^Given its small size anyway, it is, in the words of a former fighter pilot, "virtually invisible" to adversary fighters.
for that to happen, they have to have deflector films internally and/or coat internal parts with RAM paints.


I think it was probably meant in close-quarters combat. It's not only small but with Tipnis grey paint and smokeless engines I'm sure it's a damn nuisance to spot.

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Overall, I think, a fairly balanced article.


I did not quite like it, overtly simplistic. But the LCA needs such articles out there in support, so I'll not say it in public! :mrgreen:

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Dec 2011 17:10

everytime I see an update this thread, I open it to see if NP-1 or LSP-7 have taken off or something a derby has been fired, sadly disappointed once again :evil: :(


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