LCA News and Discussions

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 03 Jan 2012 03:15

karan_mc wrote:My chaiwala from Bhel , asked his chaiwala who has a chai center near old airport :mrgreen: , and i was slapped with reality .

First lot of 20 aircraft's (SP1-to-SP20), last ones SP15-SP20, will be delivered only in 2014-15.

Not much of a surprise given HAL said it can do 8ac/year earlier
karan_mc wrote:New GE engines will come only in 2013 for Tejas MK-2
Tejas MK-2 Design and structural changes have been frozen some time back .

If the airframe changes are ready and they can have it fabricated they can test out the aircraft with the 404 engines given 404 and the 414 are identical in dimensions(length and diameter). May be the fuel plumbing is different but atleast ADA can test out large parts of the flight envelope which need not wait for the new engine. Anyways they better speed up things now that the IAF is showing some interest in the program. The best thing to happen would be a MK2 + AESA and HAL upping the production rate to 15ac/year

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9265
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Hari Seldon » 03 Jan 2012 06:22

The production rate needs to be upped but maybe not incrementally. How about converting those per year figs to per month ones, eh? Hope MoD won't have to wait for full fledged hostilities to commence before releasing the cash spigots to get the job done...

akimalik
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 11:27

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby akimalik » 03 Jan 2012 10:11

suryag wrote:Anyways LSP7/8 story is
Quote:
Sources close to idrw.org have told there was delay in integration of some new sub systems in the aircrafts which lead to delays. Also since this aircrafts will be up for user trials HAL wanted LSP-7/8 aircraft to be fully as per plan and as per customer request.


Apart from this statement below
Quote:
HAL and ADA will start working on airframe of the Tejas MK-2 and are still believe that first flight will take by end of 2012, but IAF sources believe that will be rolled out only in 2014.


sorry to sound like a party pooper, but these statements sound more like someone trying to not state the harsh reality. once again, we are setting ourselves up for a round of waiting for the unicorn. I know elders like Shiv-sir would state that "exact time is not Indian concept", however, let us not be guiled by these "i believe" statements. Perhaps IAF has a more pragmatic view of reality.
I say this because when even our projects (the ones I work on) tend to get delayed, the customer is mollified by similar explanations.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 03 Jan 2012 11:08

Flight test numbers update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1759 Test Flights successfully. (23-Dec-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-325,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-55)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1756 Test Flights successfully. (07-Dec-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-325,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-52)

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54823
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2012 12:19

Apologies if this was already posted....

India Today:

Our Cinderella must step out

Our Cinderella must step out
Manoj Joshi | December 15, 2011 | 11:04

It has been called the "Last Chance Aircraft", and worse. Its designers and developers have been excoriated for endless delays. But the time has come to say it: In the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), India may finally have a winner.

We say "may" because the "last mile" is often the most difficult one to cross. This requires first, an emphatic ownership of the step-child by its primary operator, the Indian Air Force(IAF), its chosen manufacturer, the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and its parent, the Ministry of Defence. Second, and most importantly, it needs a serious managerial boost so that the production of the aircraft- whose significant bugs have already been worked out-can be undertaken on a modern industrial scale.

Winner

But the payoffs are tremendous. The country gets a highly capable multi-role fighter which it can acquire in significant numbers at a reasonable cost. It also gets a potential weapons system which it can export, for commercial gain, as well as to push its military diplomacy. It would be fair to say that the LCA is the only significant weapons system created by the country's vast defence research and production base which can compete with contemporary products -including the Chinese JF-17- and win.

Though the IAF says that it is committed to bringing the aircraft into squadron service, its current plans cater for just two squadrons of the aircraft, where they ought to be really talking of several. But that is not entirely the IAF's fault; the process of productionising the aircraft has been excruciatingly slow and past delays have made the IAF leery of putting their eggs in the LCA basket.

Till now, the ADA and HAL have built eight prototypes and six limited series aircraft and it has undertaken some 1800 takeoff and landing cycles without (touch wood) a single accident. Pilots swear by its ease of handling and maneuverability. However, according to reports, the true initial operational clearance (IOC) of the LCA has been delayed yet again. The IOC, which means the aircraft can be flown by any military pilot-not just test pilots- was technically available since January 2011, but there are a range of issues that have yet to be sorted out to the air force's satisfaction.

Now, say reports, the final operational clearance will only be available by the end of 2014. This provides an invaluable opportunity to set in train steps that will ensure that the LCA emerges as the first class product that it intrinsically is.

Simultaneously, the efforts to come up with a Mark 2 version of the aircraft with a more powerful GE F414 turbofan engine, have been completed, with the prototype slated to fly by 2014 as well. And, the naval version of the aircraft which is expected to be used by the country's indigenous aircraft carrier is also in its last stages with two prototypes to take to the air soon.

It is important to see the aircraft in comparison with the others that are flying, both as potential adversaries, as well as competitors for the export market. The aircraft under 10 tons of operational empty weight are the American F-16, the Chinese JF-17, the Swedish Gripen. Of these the LCA is the lightest at just 5.9 tons.

In part this is because of its use of carbon fibre composites. The US and the Chinese aircraft have a carbon composites content of near zero, while the more modern Gripen has 30 per cent content by weight. The LCA has 45 per cent, but as much as 90 per cent of the surface of the LCA is made of carbon fibres. This makes it light, strong and rugged, since the carbon fibre composites neither age nor corrode.

Stealth

But its most important quality is that it does not reflect radar beams, unlike the metallic components of aircraft. In other words, this gives the LCA a naturally low radar signature or 'stealth' characteristics. Given its small size anyway, it is, in the words of a former fighter pilot, "virtually invisible" to adversary fighters.

The use of carbon fibre gives the LCA another advantage: with its low operational empty weight, and compared to an aircraft with similar engines, the LCA has greater thrust to weight ratio. The LCA Mk 2 is likely to have 1.53, compared to the other agile fighter, the F-16's 1.64. The Gripen has 1.44 and the JF-17 has 1.28. Indeed, the LCA's rate of acceleration compares favourably with heavy two-engined fighters like the Eurofighter, which has a thrust to weight ratio of 1.64.

Carbon fibre parts do not deteriorate with age or corrode and hence the navalised version of the LCA will prove a big advantage. But it is true that carbon fibre parts are expensive to make and ideally, the process should be automated and procured in large numbers to keep their prices low. India has already invested a great deal in this technology beginning with the Dhruva programme in the mid-1980s and it is one of the world leaders in such technology. 8)

Clearly, its natural stealth characteristics, low operating costs, maneuverability and its sensor and weapons suite make the LCA a real player in the global market. Indeed, according to an air force officer, the performance of the LCA as a fighter exceeds that of the Mirage 2000, even when the latter is upgraded.

Although the IAF has committed itself to inducting two squadrons of 40 LCAs, its actual needs are much greater. As of now the air force puts "close air support" or missions in support to the army in a low priority. But there is great need for the IAF to take up that mission seriously, especially in the mountain areas, and for that the LCA is the ideal machine. Further, the IAF's reliance on heavy and expensive fighters would make its reaction time to emergencies-cruise missile or UAV ingress at the country's periphery-rather slow because they cannot afford to base their expensive assets too close to the border. Here, the LCA provides a quick reaction option as it can be forward based.

Export

The most interesting aspect of the LCA is in relation to exports. This is clearly the one worldclass product which can be used to woo friends and allies, especially in the neighbourhood. The LCA gives India the option to compete with the Chinese JF-17 in a score of countries including Egypt, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Sri Lanka.

Indeed, there is a wider market, too, if HAL is willing to dream big and do something about it. There is a market for some 3,000 fighters to replace the MiG-21s, F-5s, early model F-16s which will retire in the coming 10-15 years in countries of Eastern Europe, Asia-Pacific and elsewhere. Getting even ten per cent of that market would be a stunning achievement for India.

But to reach that goal, India needs to think big. HAL, is still making its current limited series aircraft by hand, as it were, and it has no experience in sales and marketing abroad. As it is, there will be a need to transform HAL's work culture to make a product to the highest world standards. Equally important would be product support, again an area in which the HAL has not done too well in the past.

But all this cannot be done by the HAL itself. The LCA programme was a national endeavour to lay the foundations for India's aerospace industry. If it is to meet that mandate- and it is on the threshold of doing that- it needs attention right now from the topmost levels of government and the Ministry of Defence.

Vikram W
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 74
Joined: 12 May 2010 02:23

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Vikram W » 05 Jan 2012 23:51

I was hoping that the NLCA would fly on AKA's birthday (28th dec). but alas it was not to be. Anyone taking odds for the next flight ?

SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SagarAg » 06 Jan 2012 01:10

26th January :D

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 06 Jan 2012 03:35

LCA with 1.64 T:W using Kaveri is the day I am waiting for. I hope that will happen in the future soon.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9876
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Jan 2012 05:15

But are they testing LCA with Kaveri eng? My understanding is only GE 404 is being used in the testing and first 20/40 units.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17051
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 06 Jan 2012 05:42

10 years of LCA first flight was on 4th jan.

lakshmikanth
BRFite
Posts: 723
Joined: 27 Oct 2008 10:07
Location: Bee for Baakistan

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby lakshmikanth » 06 Jan 2012 06:37

^^ Congrats to all those who were involved!!!

No matter what they say about LCA or its state. We have a flying aircraft that meets the spec it was designed for, and doing that with all the adversarial factors is indeed a great achievement.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 06 Jan 2012 07:06

..Indeed, and I think it is also might important that in addition to satisfying our requirements we have to ensure that we have established the best setup for LCA to grow in term of orders and foreign orders. More LCAs means better long term support for future products, from the return on investments.

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby koti » 06 Jan 2012 11:05

Is there any plan to incorporate any IRST to the Tejas?

Can LITENING pod be used as an IRST to some degree?

pragnya
BRFite
Posts: 728
Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby pragnya » 06 Jan 2012 17:17

koti wrote:Is there any plan to incorporate any IRST to the Tejas?

Can LITENING pod be used as an IRST to some degree?


IRST and FLIR mean basically the same thing. since LITENING incorporates the FLIR, it is taken care of for the LCA. however being under the fuselage, it may not be an ideal position for the FOV for aerial targets imo. somebody clarify that??

http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_S ... /7/477.pdf

member_20163
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 28
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby member_20163 » 06 Jan 2012 17:37

Our Cindrella has been quite for some time and that is making me nervous. I hope Tejas raises bright and strong from this 2 month (no news) slumber.

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1289
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby RKumar » 06 Jan 2012 17:54

My wild guess... they had or discovered some serious problem in Goa, which slow downed everything. As before that ADA and HAL were upbeat, around that we are getting no news, not so many flights.

symontk
BRFite
Posts: 920
Joined: 01 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby symontk » 06 Jan 2012 19:03

Today I saw an LCA landing at HAL Airport BLR, Kerala around 4.40PM. It flew right over my car over ORR, Marathahalli. Driving further I noticed a contrail from, Hebbal to ITPL, not sure if its of the LCA which had landed early

The LCA seemed Grey actually brownish (could be because of evening red sun). Had a bad paint job as Pakis say, lot of squares under the wings are white

karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 700
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby karan_mc » 06 Jan 2012 20:47

Any Chaiwallah , speaking any thing about it ?? after Goa there has been no news at all .

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 06 Jan 2012 21:00

litening as flir will be the same half-ok soln as khan promised for the supa-hornet-I .... it will have big blind spot ahead and above the nose.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Jan 2012 21:54

does the litening software allow air-air targetting?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 06 Jan 2012 22:01

not that we know of. it would be for early warning only - at most. I am not sure whats the range of Mica-IIR seeker in LOBL mode (not that Tejas will have mica) but surely much less than the OSF ma-hen itself.

Tejas IR missile being R73, OSF+mica IIR tricks are out of picture

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5348
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 07 Jan 2012 00:05

This DTI issue has an article on Indian defence spending and it mentions that a contract to integrate the Derby BVR missile with the Tejas is in the works and that delivery of the missile will happen sometime in the second half of 2012. This is surely towards FOC in 2014.

DTI zinio reader

Are we going to see people crib about the Derby's max range of 55 km as opposed to the AIM-120/R-77/SD-10?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 07 Jan 2012 00:10

does israel itself use the derby on f16 or f15? i think not :)
its on spyder aad though.

aditya.agd
BRFite
Posts: 174
Joined: 28 Apr 2010 00:37

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby aditya.agd » 07 Jan 2012 00:50

<snip>

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1654
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Sid » 07 Jan 2012 02:02

Singha wrote:litening as flir will be the same half-ok soln as khan promised for the supa-hornet-I .... it will have big blind spot ahead and above the nose.


sirji, same thing is true for any IRST pod as it has blind spots ahead and below the nose cone. ASAIK, IRST on F-14 tomcats used to be below the nose cone.

F-22 also uses FLIR for passive tracking, but i am not sure where the equipment is housed.

Litening's FLIR is a good search and tracking solution for LCA given the limited space we have on this bird.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 07 Jan 2012 12:55

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1761 Test Flights successfully. (05-Jan-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-326,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-56)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1759 Test Flights successfully. (23-Dec-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-325,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-55)

pragnya
BRFite
Posts: 728
Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby pragnya » 07 Jan 2012 18:58

Lalmohan wrote:does the litening software allow air-air targetting?


Identification of aerial targets from BVR ranges is also provided with the INS assisted gimbaled sensors, as the sensors can continuously point to the target’s direction, irrelevant to the aircraft position, or interference of clouds or obscurants. This combination also enables employment of the sensors in “point of interest” mode, where LITENING enables free maneuvering during and after the attack path, while maintaining the target clearly visible and marked for precision attack.


http://defense-update.com/directory/litening.htm

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Jan 2012 21:12

thanks, however i expect that it will be used to "navigate" rather than "attack" - which will be done by uncoupled weapons systems

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2012 02:00

^
while maintaining the target clearly visible and marked for precision attack.

How do they LITEN a stealth a/c like Raptor [of course in BVR]?

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 10 Jan 2012 10:48

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1762 Test Flights successfully. (06-Jan-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-327,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-56)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1761 Test Flights successfully. (05-Jan-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-211,PV3-326,LSP1-67,LSP2-196,PV5-36,LSP3-46,LSP4-43,LSP5-56)

LSP7 to fly in two weeks
It will fly when it flies :((

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12423
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Jan 2012 10:57

suryag wrote:
LSP7 to fly in two weeks
It will fly when it flies :((



Right now, most Jingos are tired of it will fly in in so and so days, we want the news, it has flown and 2012 we hope at 8 new LCA's roll out.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 10 Jan 2012 11:07

Very true am also tired of waiting and have stopped waiting it will fly when it flies

nash
BRFite
Posts: 890
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby nash » 10 Jan 2012 11:11

Aditya_V wrote:
suryag wrote:
LSP7 to fly in two weeks
It will fly when it flies :((



Right now, most Jingos are tired of it will fly in in so and so days, we want the news, it has flown and 2012 we hope at 8 new LCA's roll out.


Tareek par Tareek....Tareek par Tareek.....Tareek par Tareek
milti hai to sirf Tareek :evil:

ashthor
BRFite
Posts: 198
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 11:35

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby ashthor » 10 Jan 2012 12:30

Was'nt PV3 a test bed for EW?

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 10 Jan 2012 12:37

It was PV1 not PV3. IMO PV3 which has done the bulk of flying is used to open the flight envelope

Gurneesh
BRFite
Posts: 465
Joined: 14 Feb 2010 21:21
Location: Troposphere

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Gurneesh » 11 Jan 2012 03:04

New pics of Goa trials at livefist

http://www.livefist.blogspot.com/2012/01/photos-tejas-sea-level-trials-at-goa.html

But the two most exciting ones:

Image

Image

IIRC, there have been very few pics of LCA with LGBs if any at all.

BTW what LGB is that ?

SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SagarAg » 11 Jan 2012 03:59

^I think its Sudarshan. 8)

mayankdr
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby mayankdr » 11 Jan 2012 04:40

^Is there is a lightening pod attach on its left hand side??

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby nachiket » 11 Jan 2012 04:46

^^Yup. That is the Litening pod. The LGB's would be no more than dumb bombs without it. Glad to see that the Litening integration and LGB droping tests have been done.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8228
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 11 Jan 2012 04:57

I was just looking around and came across this picture. Is there any other picture with Tejas carrying two 250 kg bombs on the same pylon?

Image

Also, I am looking for a presentation from csir which was released around 2005 called "HIGH_AOA_TEJAS.pdf" ... does anybody out there has it archived?


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests