Libyan War

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 08:33

NDTV just showed some footage of Rafale takeoff on afterburner headed for libya, heavily loaded with fuel tanks and a boxy scalp ALCM on the centerline pylon....uber cool and armani tailored stylish as usual.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Mar 2011 08:39

...uber cool and armani tailored stylish as usual.

True. Something they can sell to the rebels or opposition forces (who will be allowed to control the oil fields for sure).

Poor Gadhafi may be a true statement.

manum · Post by **manum** » 21 Mar 2011 10:32

Last thing needed was a War for the advertisement of MRCA...surely Gripen must itching to try its luck too and hit those teethless targets...

But I am really wondering if this war is also message to China of the seamless capability of NATO force...and not to try anything extravagant...
But if we really see 4 largest nations have bailed out from this operation, means more than half of the world population doesn't wants war when there could have been other options...

We Indians don't really have a say in any of this...and we must become a world power with our technology and indispensibility like USSR of late that nations come to us themselves to bail them out of unnecessary war...

We must become modern synonym of USSR in terms military technology and power...
I hate these cheap nations attacking a nations because they only talk in tagwords...and never get into depth of it...They never tried enough to talk to Gadhafi, all they did was issue warnings...

Anyway time for us to become superpower...If we want to enforce some of our ideals in this world...Because China is definitely not an ideal nor Russia...but can be and they all look upto us...even Gadafi did, but we were helpless...

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 Mar 2011 10:47

3 French jets have been downed says gripewine.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 10:52

note sure if a bad sign or good sign but the video of MANPAD shooters jumping up and down on the su24 wreck showed these shooters to be very "afghan/palestinian type" with longish beards and white n red yasir arafat style headcloth. quite unlike the dress qadhafi usually wears.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 11:01

Manum, why do you think the Indians did not have a say in this? we do not have a say in this because GOI is not willing to reach out and use the stick. we had $5-$10b of ongoing infra work in Libya , six big cos involved, 18000 workers whose jobs are at stake.
we could have participated in this 'coalition of the willing' and supported the french line of removing qadhafi and making a fresh start with his replacements.

now whatever happens we will gain little - the rebels are going to be grateful to the allies for saving their skins. qadhafi is not going to be grateful to us if he survives because we did nothing for him either.

we have far more deployable muscle than even the UK/France in the form of 100+ MKIs and 50 M2k. even sending a token squadron of 15 to fly A2G sorties out of Egypt in support of the coast road killboxes would have proven a strong point that we have the stick and are willing to use it far and wide..defining our sphere of influence.

instead we have no stmts one way or another and will crawl back hat in hand to beg for some low laying work to whoever wins this scrape.

winner "shape" the outcome , chamchas of winners (like smaller nato states) also benefit by going along for the ride in the tail of convoy

people with no real clue or ambition (GOI), sit around hoping issues will resolve themselves before creeping fwd apologetically for minimal gains. MMS just about sums up this GOI - unable to play its part on global stage while eager to tar political rivals in witch hunts and pursueing a 'secular' agenda to earn brownie points from the IHC/IIC set in nai dilli.

manum · Post by **manum** » 21 Mar 2011 11:01

Singha wrote:note sure if a bad sign or good sign but the video of MANPAD shooters jumping up and down on the su24 wreck showed these shooters to be very "afghan/palestinian type" with longish beards and white n red yasir arafat style headcloth. quite unlike the dress qadhafi usually wears.

Now wonder from where so much of ammunition came in hand of rebel forces...nor they learnt from Afghanistan...and example of Taliban and Al Qaida...

I really want this war as rupture point of NATO forces...French were withdrawing from Afghanistan now suddenly they jumped into this war as leaders...I would love to see dozens of Rafale's downed in Libya ....while we opting for Mig 35 instead...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Mar 2011 11:03

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/ ... cnn?hpt=T1

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 21 Mar 2011 11:11

Source: Fox News

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 11:13

looks like a photo recce pod below centerline..probably a thales. and mica aams.

I have a new name for the Rafale - "The Punisher"

and soon a new one for Typhoon - "The Bhagora"

(hindi for dhoti shivering downhill skier)

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 21 Mar 2011 11:20

Source: MSNBC

manum · Post by **manum** » 21 Mar 2011 11:25

lets not see such sorry state of affairs to display as capabilities or test ground...
Yes we could have a say in this...but politically we did rightfully abstain from voting. Voting against it alone would have made us alone in this whole thing. The blame goes to Russia with Veto power, they could have blocked it right away.
I dont find it as a gracious act by the superpowers. Its easy to use resources when you have them...its gracious when you try better means...and what we have as a capability is not to attack another nation harmless to us.

We are weak willed for sure...and that why are always kept aside from anything important. That is we must become a Super power...with a stick to create pressure on these diddly-dolly Nato nations, I hate even the words used by the, in their statements...it feels like reasoning of a hollywood movie...
I've a bad feeling about this...it makes the world so monotonous...with us or without us...what the heck man...

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 21 Mar 2011 11:25

T-7x series turret explosion!

Source: MSNBC

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 21 Mar 2011 11:28

Especially for Singha.

Source: MSNBC

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 21 Mar 2011 11:30

vcsekhar wrote:the crashed plane looks like a mig-23, if you look at the tail.. there is only one engine visible.
The su-24 has two engines... my 2cents..

Mig-23 indeed.

Source: MSNBC

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Mar 2011 13:13

Yes Mig-23 , any information which missile shot it down ?

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » 21 Mar 2011 13:34

manum wrote:Last thing needed was a War for the advertisement of MRCA...surely Gripen must itching to try its luck too and hit those teethless targets...

Oh they're itching alright. And they have been itching since the start of the resolution 1973! I read a blog post by one of the pilots who will be going if they're getting a go-ahead by the government, and he's really itching to go! He seems rather annoyed at the fact that we aren't over Libya yet.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 13:44

Norway is sending 6 x F-16 and 400 support people shortly. UAE is expected to send some shiny new F-16 shortly.
denmark has already sent help.

Sweden is the only one left out....

meantime, explanation of day2 ops
http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/03/21 ... ned-day-2/

jimmyray · Post by **jimmyray** » 21 Mar 2011 13:54

This nice article published today in 'The Telegraph' by Praveen Swamy may be helpful to those who would like to understand this Libyan civil war:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -then.html

Regards

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2011 15:42

Rahul Shukla wrote:
]http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Compo ... s_full.jpg

Mig-23 indeed.

Source: MSNBC

There are two crash photos. This one was posted earlier - before the NATO attacks, This is a MiG 21. The one shown coming flaming down in the video in an urban area was the MiG 23

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 15:49

Rebel forces are said to have changed their soiled half-pants and surged forward around 40km back toward the strategic x-road they had lost few days back.

however some regime elements still remain in or near benghazi and reports of fighting within the city itself. airpower certainly is of no use there and these islanded regime elements have no escape route. surrender is unlikely to be a done deal because people who suffered under the regime all have AK47 rifles now. they might fight hard before going down.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Mar 2011 16:04

it looks like all the damage to convoys etc was done by US f 16s and F 15s

So real grunt work still the old planes

of the MRCA contenders only the Rafaele seems to be anywhere near ready

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 21 Mar 2011 16:28

I'm surprised there isn't more of a discussion here on how the SA-2 and SA-3 missile defence Libya had amounted to absolutely nothing against the Tomahawks. What does that mean for India against the Babur?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Mar 2011 16:41

surya - all the televised images of blown up tanks are of action near benghazi, undertaken by french aircraft, and this was amongst the first actions to take place

right now, lots of tv coverage of typhoon flights, but i expect these are tranche 1 RAF air-air fighters, who will not be moving any mud

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Mar 2011 16:50

manum, your reasoning and political decisions sounds like OT for me to this thread. Wasn't gadaffi given enough warnings from the security council? So, per you those rebels can die under gadaffi, while we speak which is right and wrong.

Regarding attacking a nation, the vote is all that matters. So, if your country is attacked one day, you know ahead what should be the game plan now to safeguard your own house.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Mar 2011 16:51

Lalmohan

one tv clip in the US said F16s were involved

so who knows till more details and clarity emereged

I am inclined ot believe US because they have the greatest number of bomb trucks to throw

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Mar 2011 16:55

well fine, but all international news agencies have been reporting it as french action for 2 days now

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 17:00

the french will milk whatever they can from this; incl their day1 pkg taking off even before the war council had ended, bypassing nato and using french e3 and tankers for a independent op.

its upto other heavy hitters like UK and US to change this perception by throwing more mud at the issue.

So far the US looks inclined to maintain a low profile, slink around at night and not present a huge image. no footage of lines of laden F-15E and block50 F-16s inching down the takeoff taxiways in Italy. also *no CVN* has been ordered to libyan shore, a token number of marine corps harriers are operating and some Growlers from a land base. this is most unusual for the US...must be under direct orders of POTUS to lie low and just get the job done.

UK has just about moved all its assets south and settled in. I expect with planes in theater and Sky/BBC onsite, they will be running their media plays full throttle soon.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 17:05

PratikDas, against low flying GLCM of the Babus variety I think only Akash, Spyder and radar guided AA cannons like tunguska are effective.

SA2 and SA3 are high alt aeging SAMs whose electronic eyes were totally blinded by HARMs and jamming even if they had the engagement envelope to tackle thawks flying at 900kmph at 100m altitude.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 17:06

SM Krishna - "we regret the air strikes that have taken place"

yes sir as if anyone cares for GOIs somnolent pov. now go back and continue investigating yindu terrorists.

Jeff Lira · Post by **Jeff Lira** » 21 Mar 2011 17:09

Between gaddafi is now making his supporters to do a peace march for Tripoli to the rebel city of Benghazi.Libya Declares Ceasefire; West Raided Fortified Residence This is a really clever action he has taken. If any of the civilian is attacked by rebels or western powers, they will be very well criticised by the international media. Peace marchers will hold banners and wont be surrounded by any military.

Excerpts from the above article:
Gaddafi's army has announced a new ceasefire on Sunday, saying it was a response to an African Union call for an immediate cessation of hostilities. Whereas civilian supporters of Gaddafi will now make a peace march from Tripoli to the rebel city of Benghazi raising banners against rebels and raids by west.

Meanwhile, the United States has challenged that such a ceasefire exist.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 17:14

his men can don civilian dresses and slink out among the peace marchers running up and down the coast. clever plan.

Jeff Lira · Post by **Jeff Lira** » 21 Mar 2011 17:16

@Singha, very true. Most of the civilians are actually his family men or army men. Around his compound these civilians have made a human chain, saying you will have to kill us before killing our leader

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Mar 2011 17:16

gaddafi is predictably playing the ummah khatre mein hai card
civilian casualties are the first card
already last night we saw 'civilian casualties' on tv
more to come

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » 21 Mar 2011 18:13

Singha wrote:Norway is sending 6 x F-16 and 400 support people shortly. UAE is expected to send some shiny new F-16 shortly.
denmark has already sent help.

Sweden is the only one left out....

meantime, explanation of day2 ops
http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/03/21 ... ned-day-2/

Yeah. The thing is that it is a lot easier for Norway and Denmark since they're in NATO. UAE and Qatar are not in NATO, but they're Arabs and Arab participation is needed to give the military operation legitimacy in the region.

"left out" isn't how I would discribe it mate, it was more the lack of political will from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Carl Bildt. That is perhaps about to change very soon though.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2011 18:18

tune in here to hear Malta ATC. thats the epicenter of the traffic crossing all over the Med to libya....bloggers are using that
http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=lmml

sounds cool. ofcourse I cannot understand any of it.

manum · Post by **manum** » 21 Mar 2011 18:19

SaiK wrote:manum, your reasoning and political decisions sounds like OT for me to this thread. Wasn't gadaffi given enough warnings from the security council? So, per you those rebels can die under gadaffi, while we speak which is right and wrong.

Regarding attacking a nation, the vote is all that matters. So, if your country is attacked one day, you know ahead what should be the game plan now to safeguard your own house.

It was OT,sorry, I recognized that...but I said what I said, so that another opinion gets registered in this thread...Finally its a war, it is more than a spectacle.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Mar 2011 18:28

Photo from NYT,

Looks like the hot section of a Cruise missile engine. It's survived relatively intact. Now would those be single crystal blades? Won't cheena biladhels or someone else love to get their hands on that thing?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Mar 2011 18:31

The only plane that is missing in action is the F-22 raptor...

manum · Post by **manum** » 21 Mar 2011 18:35

Gagan wrote:The only plane that is missing in action is the F-22 raptor...

Its a stealth plane remember. you are not supposed to see it.