Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Gus » 17 Apr 2011 22:20

Shiv,

We had a YT employee, who helped you clear an earlier video (or tried to)..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby menon s » 17 Apr 2011 22:55

this is from the class 1 urdu text book, by Punjab School books and texts committee !
Like A for apple! atimes i feel our generation of Indians should go on dying, by killing all Pakistanis, so that our children, can live in an atmosphere where these freaks are dead and do not pose a problem! Mother of all disgusts!
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Dipanker » 17 Apr 2011 23:07

CRamS wrote:
Dipanker wrote:I have seen you making this claim many times on this thread without ever supporting it by any evidence. Unless you provide some evidence there is no substance to your claim.

US has its share of religious fanatics but to say all Americans hate Hinduism is a gross generalization and also betrays a lack of understanding of America.



Jut observe, read, and reflect. The evidence of my claim is self evident :-). Plus you and I both know that Hinduism & Christianity worldviews are like night & day, oil & water; they are immiscible (just stating an obvious fact, not advocating a religious war or anything).

If you need a more pedantic treatment of my keen common sensical observations, please read Samuel Huntignton's clash of civilizations. Or read Robert Kaplan's views on the same subject. To get a glimpse of Huntington's contempt for Hinduism just consider what he had to say about India's rise: the world will have to put with self-righteous lectures on the superiority of the 'caste system'.

I won't say anything more on a Paki thread, just suffice to re-iterate that India's policy ought to be predicated on India US give & take, strengths & weaknesses, hardcore real-politick; not VS style wishful thinking that just because US has finally realized that TSP is the 2-bit terrorist entity that it is, that somehow translates into a closer India US embrace.



I am sorry to say but your have not been able to support your claim "they harbour a deep-rooted contempt and hatred for Hinduism" with this post.

Anyway OT, if you like you can carry it in GDF and furnish the proof of your claim there.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Gagan » 17 Apr 2011 23:52

menon s wrote:this is from the class 1 urdu text book, by Punjab School books and texts committee !
Like A for apple!

Wow. The Pakistani government supplied kinder garden text book should be something like:
A for AK-47
B for Bum blast
C for Coup
D for ...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby VikramS » 18 Apr 2011 00:27

Hakimji:

I think you change the title so that it becomes less specific you will have a case. So remove 1965 and add different wars....

Also it would be helpful if people go and like it a lot.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Apr 2011 00:44

CRamS wrote:Not Talk till terror list of 20+ addressed

This NOT Talk should be followed by ready to take punitive measures should TSP escalate.


This is what I am curious about. What punitive measures are you proposing? So far, the "not talk" is accompanied with dossier preparation and appealing to Uncle. What would be some examples of punitive measures? Are the SDRE scared of new-clear bum? If not, then what is a proposed policy?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Apr 2011 01:15

Gagan wrote:
menon s wrote:this is from the class 1 urdu text book, by Punjab School books and texts committee !
Like A for apple!

Wow. The Pakistani government supplied kinder garden text book should be something like:
A for AK-47
B for Bum blast
C for Coup
D for ...

Sirji,
Those who are destined to wear the soosai jacket are not to be confused with the kafir language of English. So no stupid abcd. Urdu is enough and a little bit of madrassa education to round off to get the complete Mujahid. AOA.
Gautam

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Amber G. » 18 Apr 2011 01:40

g.S - Don't be so sure, checkout:
http://www.amazon.com/Education-State-Fifty-Years-Pakistan/dp/0195778251
This is written by a Pakistani physicist.
With the possible exception of those who take o-level (British O-levels from Grade 9 (?), all text books (even in English medium, and both public, private and government schools ) starting from 1976(?) require such things..
Eg. Grade 5 social studies class, Required topics include: 'Acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan,' , 'Make speeches on Jihad,', 'Collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and national guards,' and 'India's evil designs against Pakistan.

Link, for example this article:
Pakistan: Do school texts fuel bias?

From above:
An Islamist alphabet chart published in this month's Newsline shows Urdu letters accompanied by guns, daggers, and a depiction of planes crashing into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. The chart is not approved by the government. But it is, the article claims, in use by "by some regular schools as well as madrassahs associated with the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, an Islamic political party that had allied itself with General Musharraf." The Ministry of Education says there are 1.5 million students in 13,000 madrassahs acquiring a parallel religious education.
Last edited by Amber G. on 18 Apr 2011 01:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby astal » 18 Apr 2011 01:41

Saars,

In the opinion of a true Bharat Rakshak, Shri R N Kao, who probably forgot more about Pakistan than all of us on BRF can ever know,
We should leave Pakistan to stew in her own juice

The only reason we talk with Pakistan is so we can pretend to take action the next time they carry out a provocation.

I am sure the Indian External Affairs Ministry has two templates. Possibly called the blow hot template and the blow cold template. All they have to do is either insert the latest atrocity and call all talks off, or site a temporary detente and invite their counterparts for discussions about the format of future discussions.

It is a good time to re-read this gem by B.Raman. His mentor Shri Kao's opinions are eerily prescient.

We should leave Pakistan to stew in her own juice
Last edited by astal on 18 Apr 2011 01:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby CRamS » 18 Apr 2011 01:47

GuruPrabhu wrote:This is what I am curious about. What punitive measures are you proposing? So far, the "not talk" is accompanied with dossier preparation and appealing to Uncle. What would be some examples of punitive measures? Are the SDRE scared of new-clear bum? If not, then what is a proposed policy?


Yes, SDREs are scared , and with good reason, of Paki new-clear bum. But it doesn't have to go that far.

No talks until 20+ terrorists are handed over and LeT dismantled must be given in one voice starting from the PM himself. But if you have a PM running around doing Aman ki Tamasha, this posture by a few is diluted and will be mocked at.

Now, assuming SDREs can speak in one voice, TSP will try to escalate for sure, Pakis don't like being ignored by SDREs. It is at that stage, a calibrated use of force is warranted, but the goal must not be lost sight of namley, SDRE retaliation is for hand over of 20+ and shutting down of LeT only, lest the whites start screaming nuke flashpoint etc.

A steadfast policy like this will eventually change the tone of the debate in India's favor. It will no longer be "piss process between India & TSP derailed by terrorists" (as though terrorists are from Mars), "Kashmir is nuke flashpoint" etc, rather it will be "TSP bottling up of terror will result in India Paki talks", and who knows pigLeT terror against India will also be made part of GWOT. CNN/Fox/BBC will talk of Mumbai also when they talk of NY, London, and Madrid.

So basically my polcy:

1) Firm united resolve that no talks until TSP tackles India-specific terror, and the benchmarks including handing over 20+.
2) Ask Indian army to work on robust, fast punitive measures should TSP escalate
3) Should hostilities break out, the goal in #1 should be hammered day in and day out.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Naidu » 18 Apr 2011 02:54

abhijitm wrote:
amdavadi wrote:MMS is dreaming about retiring in la-whore, sooner the batter.

Are (former) PMs allowed to settle in foreign country?


Sure, why not? As private citizens, I believe, they are allowed to live where ever they please. However, GOI may not be willing to provide fool-proof/air-tight/"presidential" security outside India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby menon s » 18 Apr 2011 04:19

For India, the bright future still has a dark cloud on the western horizon.
An article by Bruce Reidel, of the Brookings Institution, as many would know, he was the only officer present with Clinton, when Nawaz Sharif, came to plead about Kargil, on the 4th of July 1999.
It reflects that may be MMS is high on Pakistan, but that idea has not much support with NSA and the rest of the cabinet Especially Sonia Gandhi! (the nemesis of the sangh supporters at BRF :mrgreen: )
http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/0 ... iedel.aspx

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby SSridhar » 18 Apr 2011 04:42


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby shiv » 18 Apr 2011 06:02

VikramS wrote:Hakimji:

I think you change the title so that it becomes less specific you will have a case. So remove 1965 and add different wars....

Also it would be helpful if people go and like it a lot.


Well the title could do with changing - but the fact is the video was not designed to be liked by the target audience. That appears to be the fundamental problem. It was liked a lot less than I imagined. YouTube is full of similar inappropriate (but not vulgar) names - so I am certain it was not the name. I have a couple of other bits of "corroborative" information - but that is OT on here.

What is interesting is that there appears to be a mechanism to have certain videos removed for reasons that cause takleef to Pakistanis and no other reason. I am trying to figure out what is happening and how far one can go in terms of causing takleef to provoke a reaction. It is, like I said - a pisko experiment. The interesting thing is that it actually provokes a reaction. One would have thought that one video getting a few dozen hits that does not contain vulgar or violent or other copyrighted material should not cause such a sharp reaction. Clearly some lurker has had enough.

Anyhow the experiment will continue at a time and opportunity of my choosing.. 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby CRamS » 18 Apr 2011 06:29

menon s wrote:For India, the bright future still has a dark cloud on the western horizon.

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/0 ... iedel.aspx



More likley, he is assuring his countrymen that their policy of helping TSP build up nukes will deliver the goods in the India is scared of TSP and will talk as MMS is "wisely" doing according to him


For thoughtful Indians, the crisis in Pakistan is a nightmare on their border. They know Pakistan has the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world. It is already close to being the fifth largest nuclear weapons power, and is on track to being the fourth, right behind China, Russia and the United States. Thus far, India has held back from accelerating its own nuclear buildup, but that may change. Singh wisely invited his Pakistani counterpart, Prime Minister Gillani, to sit next to him at the World Cup semi-final cricket match at the end of March, a gesture intended to help heal the wounds of 26/11.



India, the victim has to invite Pakis to watch cricket to heal the wonds of 26/11. Riedel thinks that Indians are some kind of fools to believe this kind of tripe?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby SSridhar » 18 Apr 2011 07:05

CRamS wrote:
Singh wisely invited his Pakistani counterpart, Prime Minister Gillani, to sit next to him at the World Cup semi-final cricket match at the end of March, a gesture intended to help heal the wounds of 26/11.

India, the victim has to invite Pakis to watch cricket to heal the wonds of 26/11. Riedel thinks that Indians are some kind of fools to believe this kind of tripe?

DRS, No doubt that Riedel's statement is the unkindest cut of all. Would he even suggest that Obama invite Mullah Omar to watch Super Bowl along with him to heal the wounds of 9/11 ? But, we should not blame him because we invite such condescending trash by our behaviour. Where was the need for Man Mohan Singh to invite Gilani when all that Pakistan is doing on the 26/11 probe is simply stonewalling and conducting a hoax case with well orchestrated drama at the Adiala court? Repeated surrender by India after repeated ravaging by Pakistan makes us a laughing stock among other nations. Do we even deserve to call ourselves a nation-state ? I am glad that Riedel stopped short of saying that unless Indian cricket team tours Pakistan, the Pakistani hurt after 26/11 will not go away.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby arun » 18 Apr 2011 07:11

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

Pakistani origin Ali Dayan Hasan of Human Rights Watch writing in the Jakarta Globe describes the oppression of the “less pure” minority Mohammadden Ahmadiyya sect by their fellow Mohammadden’s of the “more pure” other sects in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and cautions Indonesia from following the example of the sole Mohammadden Nuclear Power:

Indonesia Risks Taking Pakistan's Path to Intolerance

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby arun » 18 Apr 2011 07:15

The oppressed Baloch are certainly not taking the Punjabi plunder of their natural resources aided and abetted by the Punjabi dominated security forces lying down:

Work begins in 10 days on gas reserve that may eclipse Sui

Saad Hasan
Monday, April 18, 2011 ………………………..

Miscreants have attacked the facilities of OGDCL in Balochistan more than 60 times in the last three months, killing eight workers including some Frontier Constabulary guards.

The poor law and order bogged down the exploration work at the prized Zin Block, which according to some company officials holds four trillion cubic feet (TCF) of gas, nearly 15 percent of Pakistan’s existing recoverable gas reserves of 27 TCF.

The country’s largest petroleum producer has engaged six platoons -- 216 soldiers each -- of the Frontier Constabulary to provide security cover. “Everyone has been taken into confidence. The Army chief, the Commander South and the tribesmen”, Malik said. ……………..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby arun » 18 Apr 2011 07:28

X Posted from the IWT thread.

Per Capita water availability in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan plummets:

According to the latest official document of Wapda on water challenges in Pakistan, available with The News, drastically plummeted by 80.2 percent from 5,260 cubic metre to 1,038 cubic metre while the threshold value stands at 1,000 cubic metre per capita.


As does water storage capacity due to sedimentation :

The document also discloses that Pakistan has lost its capacity to store water by 4.18 million feet of water (27 percent) from 15.75 to 11.57maf in the wake of sedimentation which is close to one Mangla Dam as 4.54maf is stored in the said dam.

It says that the Tarbela was built in 1976 with storage capacity of 9.69maf that has reduced to 6.77maf by 30 percent (2.92maf). The Mangla Dam was erected in 1968 with water storage capacity of 5.34maf that has gone down to 4.54maf by 15 percent (0.80maf).

The Chashma Barrage was built in 1971 with capacity to store 0.72maf water. Its capacity has now plummeted to 0.26maf by 63 percent (0.46maf) because of the sedimentation.


Meanwhile the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is hopeful that the US will fund the Diamer-Bhasha dam and thereby generate further funding from donor agencies who reportedly are averse to funding the project due to the opposition of India:

The announcement from US will help generate funding for the mega project from the donor agencies, particularly from the World Bank, which has refused to provide financing, pleading that the said dam is being constructed on the controversial territory as New Delhi claims that this part of the world, wherein this project is being made, belongs to India. ………………

Once the US announces the financial assistance for the dam, the World Bank will follow the suit and provide the funding and this will provide the substantial financial solace to Pakistan to complete the project. The Diamer-Bhasha Dam needs $11.8 billion to get completed and Manila based Asian Development Bank has committed to providing funding amounting to $5 billion for the project. …………


Read it all:

$200 million US aid likely for Bhasha Dam

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Apr 2011 08:04

CRamS wrote:
GuruPrabhu wrote:This is what I am curious about. What punitive measures are you proposing?

So basically my polcy:

1) Firm united resolve that no talks until TSP tackles India-specific terror, and the benchmarks including handing over 20+.
2) Ask Indian army to work on robust, fast punitive measures should TSP escalate
3) Should hostilities break out, the goal in #1 should be hammered day in and day out.


I suppose that the answer to my question is 2) above in which the IA is delegated to work on punitive measures. Do folks on BRF have their own proposals? We can't implement any policy but I was curious about how many, if any, concrete ideas existed out there.

In fact, if we replace 1) in your policy above with "Firm resolve to chai-biskoot forever", there is no *operational* difference in policy which will still be embedded in 2) and 3). This is what makes me think that Talk/No Talk is inconsequential in real terms.
Last edited by GuruPrabhu on 18 Apr 2011 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby arun » 18 Apr 2011 08:28

Newsweek reports that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is playing hardball with the US.

The current demand of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is that relations with the US revert to the so called “Reagan Rules” that date back to the CIA-ISI relationship of the 1980s
where the US remained remained largely hands-off, the ISI called the shots and there was a tacit agreement that the U.S. would ignore the Islamic Republic’s nuclear program:

Pakistan Plays Hardball

Meanwhile I do hope our Government is working to disabuse the US of any such notions that serve to undercut India’s interest in Afghanistan and failing which has a plan to return the pain the US plan has on India with compound interest.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby CRamS » 18 Apr 2011 08:43

SSridhar wrote:DRS, No doubt that Riedel's statement is the unkindest cut of all. Would he even suggest that Obama invite Mullah Omar to watch Super Bowl along with him to heal the wounds of 9/11 ? But, we should not blame him because we invite such condescending trash by our behaviour. Where was the need for Man Mohan Singh to invite Gilani when all that Pakistan is doing on the 26/11 probe is simply stonewalling and conducting a hoax case with well orchestrated drama at the Adiala court? Repeated surrender by India after repeated ravaging by Pakistan makes us a laughing stock among other nations. Do we even deserve to call ourselves a nation-state ? I am glad that Riedel stopped short of saying that unless Indian cricket team tours Pakistan, the Pakistani hurt after 26/11 will not go away.



My gut feel is that this tamasha by MMS won't last too long. We are in the sort of middle overs of 1-day cricket match. Something will give.

On the Indian side, I sense that they are enough patriots in the establishment who are furious with MMS & Pakis for rubbing India's H&D to the dust. They are going to make life difficult for MMS or play spoiler.

On TSP side, the chutzpah that they have, they actually believe that India must make concessions. I know your BP will rise, I mean the last thing on their mind is to do anything about 26/11, rather, they believe they have "suffered" enough at the hands of India, 26/11 is chump change not even worth talking about, and India should give them Kashmir. Talk about divergence in perceptions. No amount of cricket can bridge this gap.

Sad part is when hostilities break out again, it will be either be equal equal, or India will be blamed for not following through on what MMS started.

What do you hink of my prescriptions I suggested to GuruParbhu. Somehow, we have to change the equation in the court of international opinion that TSP must address India-specific terror concerns before any sense of normalization can kick in.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby CRamS » 18 Apr 2011 08:50

arun wrote:Pakistan Plays Hardball

Meanwhile I do hope our Government is working to disabuse the US of any such notions that serve to undercut India’s interest in Afghanistan and failing which has a plan to return the pain the US plan has on India with compound interest.


According to Riedel


Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq, or Libya, the U.S. cannot even consider the use of force to pressure Pakistan, a fact of which Kayani is very well aware.



Why? I don't buy this nonsense. US has the wherewithal to destroy TSPA in a half a day.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Anujan » 18 Apr 2011 09:18

NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world/asia/18pakistan.html?ref=asia

Broadly, the Americans seek a strong and relatively centralized Afghan government commanding a large army that can control its territory. Almost all those ends are objectionable to Pakistan, which while it calls for a stable Afghanistan, prefers a more loosely governed neighbor where it can influence events, if need be, through Taliban proxies.

Even within the Pentagon, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, who has met with the Pakistani military chief, Gen. Afshaq Parvez Kayani, on more than two dozen occasions, has more tolerance for the Pakistani point of view than does General Petraeus, a senior American official said. With his position in Washington, Admiral Mullen could still prevail on persevering with Pakistan.

These American nuances are well known at the Pakistani Army headquarters in Rawalpindi, where General Petraeus is referred to as Mr. Petraeus — a calculated omission of his military title as a way to mock his perceived political ambitions, according to a recent visitor to the headquarters.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Ambar » 18 Apr 2011 09:28

CRams, ask any western 'South Asian Expert' and they'll give you the same canned reasons : " Nukes, further spread of extremism, the most 'reliable' non-NATO ally, further destabilization of a volatile region etc". From the burning of US embassy in the late 70s to attacks on ISAF in Afg, US is well aware of Pak's perfidy and 2-faced behavior. US action against Pak or the lack of it eludes reason just as our spinelessness in the wake of repeated attacks. What could be a tipping point that would make B-52s blot the sky over Pindi ? I'm not sure. Until that day, they'll continue to hold the world hostage.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby SSridhar » 18 Apr 2011 10:04

CRamS wrote:My gut feel is that this tamasha by MMS won't last too long. We are in the sort of middle overs of 1-day cricket match. Something will give.

What will 'give' will be another terror strike. Once that happens, there may be some lull in the 'peace initiative'. But, after the unannounced-but-widely-understood Mohali Declaration that the peace process from now on will be 'uninterrupted and uninterruptible', even another strike may elicit no response from GoI apart from usual cliches. Pakistan's demand for the 'uninterrupted and uninterruptible' has been to make India in a permanently bent posture for GUBO.

What do you think of my prescriptions I suggested to GuruParbhu. Somehow, we have to change the equation in the court of international opinion that TSP must address India-specific terror concerns before any sense of normalization can kick in.

IMO, there are two parts to your question. One is Indian prescriptions and the other is international opinion. Of what use is international opinion when India itself is lovey-dovey with Pakistan ?

The Indian prescription must start from the realization that so long as Pakistan exists, India will be insecure, India will face terrorism and India's efforts regionally and even globally will be stymied by that implacably inimical state bent upon our destruction. It will be then quite easy to formulate plans. But, somehow, Indian leaders and bureaucrats believe that Pakistan can be turned around and all it needs is dollops of surrender from us. I am not saying that it will be easy to tackle Pakistan once that realization of the need to dismantle Pakistan dawns on us. By having allowed Pakistan to reach the proportions it has today and with the friends it has, we are going to struggle hard to do that. But, we seem to have given up on that idea at all (in fact, we never entertained that idea) and appeasement/surrender/goodwill have been chosen as the only routes to win the hearts & minds of long lost Pakistani brothers & sisters. I am pessimistic with the efforts we are making.

You mentioned 'no talks'. I would say do everything to squeeze Pakistan. It is no longer a question of this or that. It is this and that. People-to-people contacts are often cited as a reason for not being tough with Pakistan. If people are not able to visit their relatives across the border, then so be it. If they are so keen, let them pressurize the terrorist state to mend itself. Let Indians tell their relatives across the border that they are unable to visit Pakistan because of Pakistan's attitude and behaviour.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby CRamS » 18 Apr 2011 10:08

Anujan wrote:NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world/asia/18pakistan.html?ref=asia

Broadly, the Americans seek a strong and relatively centralized Afghan government commanding a large army that can control its territory. Almost all those ends are objectionable to Pakistan, which while it calls for a stable Afghanistan, prefers a more loosely governed neighbor where it can influence events, if need be, through Taliban proxies.

Even within the Pentagon, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, who has met with the Pakistani military chief, Gen. Afshaq Parvez Kayani, on more than two dozen occasions, has more tolerance for the Pakistani point of view than does General Petraeus, a senior American official said. With his position in Washington, Admiral Mullen could still prevail on persevering with Pakistan.

These American nuances are well known at the Pakistani Army headquarters in Rawalpindi, where General Petraeus is referred to as Mr. Petraeus — a calculated omission of his military title as a way to mock his perceived political ambitions, according to a recent visitor to the headquarters.


As a manager, when guys working with me start getting into nitty gritty deatils about why something can't be done, I cut through chase, and refuse to accept any mumbo jumbo on why something can't be done despite the contray from the big picture which I lay out and constantly remind everyone about.

Likewise, Jane Perlez seems to be detail-oriented reporter, and she is doing an outstanding job no doubt in relaying all the contortions going on in DC on how to deal with TSP, but one must not loose sight of the big picture based on her report.

I simply refuse to believe that mighty, superpower USA is so helpless in the face of Paki perfidy. More likely, as she points out, Pentagon chutiyas like Adm Mullen and CIA arse holes with buddies in the ISI don't want to antagozie their Paki clients too much, and they want to entertain Paki demands made on India. And TSP is holding out based on these divisions in the US establishment. Thats all there is to it IMO.

To get TSP to behave, R-man listed a few simple things US can do, one of them being to freeze TSPA big-wigs' bank accounts and threaten to declare them the bunch of terorist vermin that they are. That itself should fetch all the cooperation from TSP that US needs in a heartbeat.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Prem » 18 Apr 2011 10:21

Xnomically strong India is the onlee solution to all the problems coming for Poak and His 3.5 Boyfriends . Regardless of any soft or hard option exercised by India, we have another 10-12 years to live with Poak problem. 3.5 boyfriends will soon be saying "bye-friend" once Indian achieve the practical capabilty to insert and misuse middle finger in their Musharraf, till then at least we can expect from GOI is to slap Poak- Dog everytime its bark or bite on behalf of paymasters.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Apr 2011 11:02

Prem,

I agree with your summary of the situation. The US is helpless because of Packee control over supply routes and talibunnies. India is helpless because India has no strategy for punitive measures in the face of new-clear bum. It is sad to see how US has mismanaged its advantage in dealing with TSP. The US has fallen very far from the days of "With us or against us" and "Bomb you to stone ages" threats to Kammandu to today's negotiations with Kiyani.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby vina » 18 Apr 2011 11:16

Xnomically strong India is the onlee solution to all the problems coming for Poak and His 3.5 Boyfriends


Very true. I was watching Mohandas Pai's comments on some TV Channel (I think Times NoW) after his exit announcement and he was talking about how he wants to get into public service in a higher edu space and how there is a much larger life outside Infy etc.

He was saying that @ current rates, India's GDP is going to double in a couple of years and in 20 years time, India will have a GDP of 10 TRILLION dollars. Okay, even if you cut that timeframe in half, in 10 years you will have something like a $4T economy.

That will be a humongous market and India will have a much much better HDI in that with a stable population and will be firmly a middle income economy, racing to break through the $10K per capita mark in the next few years after that.

In that kind of scenario, everyone in the world, including the 3.5 boyfriends of La-Whore will want to do business with the top 3 big boys in the world, China , US and India . With an economy within a sniffing distance of the US and growing faster than any other large global economy , it cant be any other way.

Of course, given the trends, Pakistan will be headed the Afghanistan/Somalia way. The difference will be like the current one between So-Ko and No-Ko economically. Diyar Leader Son of Heaven in No-Ko can put an air tight lid on the No-Ko society and shut them off from the rest of the world. No-Ko doesnt have a RAPE equivalent, their folks havent seen the rest of the world,plus Packees aren't Koreans! So while No-Ko /So-Ko can be managed by Diyar Leader, such a scenario in India/Pakistan is simply not sustainable as the difference widens. Well, Saas-Bahu serials in 2015/2020 beamed into PoakLand alone will lay those disparities for everyone to see.

It will be okay if Araps get 10000000 times richer and employ you as camel jocks and toilet cleaners. But it will simply be unacceptable if a fellow abdul (despite all the protestations for Poaks, SDRES are fellow abduls/closest cousins/whatever) grows 10000000 times richer and you can aspire to be a camel jock, date grower, toilet cleaner/illegal immigrant into Yindia, you are liable to bust a few capillaries in your heart if nothing else from jealousy and high BP and super takeelf onree.

So folks, hang on . The Chankian strategy of being status quoist is correct in the long run. Focus on economy, HDI and getting India up and running as a technological, economic and miliatry power, the problem will solve itself. Remember, the west won over the SU, not by arms alone, but overall , and that too without having to fire a single nook. After all, RAPE and Baksheesh and beggary are inseparable. RAPES will sell their mothers in search of Baksheesh.

And oh,the uber Islamic religiosity is to seek Baksheesh from the A-Rabs onree. The day someone finds a substitute for oil (not very far off, I think) the economic base of the entire Ummah and the A-Rabs and the disease of Ummitis is cut to the roots and expect Unkil and Oirepoeans and Chinies and everyone else to drop the entire Ummah like a piece of turd. Ummitis as a disease will be cured totally. I think we as a generation will see it within our lifetimes very soon and our kids will surely live to see a better world with the Pig Nation flushed down "Pakistan" and the emergence as separate nations Balochistan, Sind, Pakhtunistan , Rump Pakjab , and Gilgit /Baltistan breaking away to eventually join Ladhak & India.

The Sindhu alone is not a sufficient economic base to sustain a 21st century country with a RAPEs aspiring for "metropolitan" lifestyles and comforts and societies , without the 3.5 boyfriends and the oil economy underlying it (remittance by Pakis in Gelf). Once that economic base goes, Pakistan goes down well, Pakistan!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Vikas » 18 Apr 2011 11:21

Prem wrote:Xnomically strong India is the onlee solution to all the problems coming for Poak and His 3.5 Boyfriends . Regardless of any soft or hard option exercised by India, we have another 10-12 years to live with Poak problem. 3.5 boyfriends will soon be saying "bye-friend" once Indian achieve the practical capabilty to insert and misuse middle finger in their Musharraf, till then at least we can expect from GOI is to slap Poak- Dog everytime its bark or bite on behalf of paymasters.


I am sure JLN in 1947, LBS in 65 and IG in 71 uttered similar words and look where we are...

Prem, Richness did not save India in the past and I doubt if it is going to save us in future. Isn't it our fanciful hope that somehow when we will be rich, Miraculously the poor neighbor would start behaving more decently with us in return for a bone.

You know what, The same MMS culture probably would be still alive and kicking. We would be talking in terms of bailing out Pakistan to avoid getting hammered by PA and LeT. Why do you think that job we are not able to finish today would be finished by the next generation.
It is our time of calling and we should rise to the occasion cuz who has seen the future.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 18 Apr 2011 11:28

vina wrote:The difference will be like the current one between So-Ko and No-Ko economically.


Perfect. The only problem is that we will continue to face some problems like South Korea. It is not a big deal. People die due to all types of reasons. Just look at traffic/rail accidents. They have certainly killed more people than the 26/11 (or 9/11) event.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby vina » 18 Apr 2011 11:31

I am sure JLN in 1947, LBS in 65 and IG in 71 uttered similar words and look where we are...


JLN,IG, LBS etc shot themselves in the foot by tying down India economically and strangling it. La-Whores on the other hand got baksheesh from all and sundry for well w*oring itself (CENTO, SEATO, GUBO , Oyill in Araapiya and "Labor export to all over the world") and actually outperformed India economically until the mid 80s.

The economic reforms are a slam dunk because, it loosened the fetters that held India back. And investments in people are a long term multi generatioanl thing. The investments made in sci/tech, edu , health etc since 1947 (think all that labs, research instis, colleges in S&T etc), will see fruition when you hit that middle income sweetspot.

Until 80s, the Pacquis could claim "soup-e-riority" thanks to Baksheesh and claim an equal-equal. Not anymore and over time as gaps widen, cant even claim a fig leaf of equal equal.

See, all planning goes out of window. If India to Pak population ratio is 7:1 then Packees will say something like I need to be 1/7th of Yindia in everything (size, wealth, economy, defence etc), but if Yindia has a economy that is 100000000 times PER CAPITA, then that 1/7th becomes 1/7000000000 onree and that will always poke the Mushrraf big time every second.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Narad » 18 Apr 2011 11:59

Introducing: London Taliban
Women who do not wear headscarves are being threatened with violence and even death by Islamic extremists intent on imposing sharia law on parts of Britain, it was claimed today.
Other targets of the 'Talibanesque thugs', being investigated by police in the Tower Hamlets area of London, include homosexuals.
Stickers have been plastered on public walls stating: 'Gay free zone. Verily Allah is severe in punishment'.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Atri » 18 Apr 2011 12:10

Backing India lands PoK leaders in jail

SRINAGAR: Two top National Awami Party leaders, Imran Shahzad and Naheem Iqbal Khwaja, were arrested in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) for rooting for Team India during the World Cup, particularly during the Mohali semifinal, writes Dr Shabir Choudhry, a Pakistani national and director of Institute of Kashmir Affairs in London in his latest blog.

"It's an offence to support the Indian cricket team in PoK," he writes. The two National Awami Party stalwarts from Dadyal, district Mirpur, were arrested a day after the Mohali match.

The Kashmir National Party has come out strongly against the arrest of National Awami Party leaders, Imran Shahzad and Naheem Iqbal Khwaja, in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) for rooting for Team India during the World Cup,especially during the Mohali semifinal.

Kashmir National Party secretary general in PoK, Yasin Anjumm, said, ''The Kashmiri nationalists are very angry over this, and people are expressing their anger against Pakistan and their oppressive policies.''

''Liberate Muzaffarabad first and not Srinagar...'' should be the new slogan for Kashmris, writes Dr Shabir Choudhry, a Pakistani national and director of Institute of Kashmir Affairs in London, in his latest blog.

He points out that in the past, some Kashmiri parties supported by Pakistani secret agencies were groomed on the slogan 'Liberate Srinagar first, and not Muzaffarabad'. ''By implication, it meant that only the Indian side is occupied and Pakistani side of Kashmir is free."


:lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Narad » 18 Apr 2011 12:46

GuruPrabhu wrote:What course of action do folks here prefer? So far, as far as I can tell, GOI has followed only two courses:

A. Talk

B. Not talk

It is not as if either A or B has some well thought out follow-up scenarios that have been worked out and put into action. IMO, both are equally useless options and major time-pass chai-biskoot for experts.

I get the impression that folks here prefer B. So, may I ask what are the perceived gains and benefits from following plan B, and how can India achieve its objectives (whatever they are)?


The best option of course is the secret option "C", that is to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds. Option A necessarily complements option C and hence the current chain of events IMHO.

Manu may be pea-brained on strategic geopolitical considerations but our babus are certainly not. I believe things are moving in right directions.
Last edited by Narad on 18 Apr 2011 12:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Apr 2011 12:48

CRamS wrote:
Anujan wrote:NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world/asia/18pakistan.html?ref=asia
These American nuances are well known at the Pakistani Army headquarters in Rawalpindi, where General Petraeus is referred to as Mr. Petraeus — a calculated omission of his military title as a way to mock his perceived political ambitions, according to a recent visitor to the headquarters.


As a manager, when guys working with me start getting into nitty gritty deatils about why something can't be done, I cut through chase, and refuse to accept any mumbo jumbo on why something can't be done despite the contray from the big picture which I lay out and constantly remind everyone about. To get TSP to behave, R-man listed a few simple things US can do, one of them being to freeze TSPA big-wigs' bank accounts and threaten to declare them the bunch of terorist vermin that they are. That itself should fetch all the cooperation from TSP that US needs in a heartbeat.[/quote]
US will move against Puke once it decides that it is in their interest to do so, not a moment sooner. Even now they think is is better to aid Puke. Historically, US was in bed with Shah of Iran. Later on through Saddam they contributed to a large scale destruction of Iran for ten years. So, this can be done with Pukistan too. But this fact will not help India's immediate concerns.
Gautam

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Narad » 18 Apr 2011 13:02

European Parliament condemns Pakistan
The European Parliament (EP) passed two declarations against the Pakistan government condemning it for its support to the Taliban.

A statement on Friday said these declarations came after recognising the need for urgent measures to be taken for the safety and security of EU, “as Pakistan didn't stop supporting the Taliban and has been involved in supporting export of terrorism to EU countries.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby RajeshA » 18 Apr 2011 13:09

vina wrote:After all, RAPE and Baksheesh and beggary are inseparable. RAPES will sell their mothers in search of Baksheesh.


Who wants their mothers?

But there can be a booming business in sisters and daughters. India is short on women. Our gender ratio has skewed far too much, as per census 2011 - 914 females to 1000 males. So as Pakistan becomes pooooorer and poooooooooooorer, and Indians become riiiiiiicher and riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicher, I'm afraid more and more Indians would have to look for their sasurs and salas in Pakistan. Indians would get to procreate, Pakistanis would get to subsist!

Every month, Indians would be sending 15kg wheat flour sacks to their sasurals in Pakistan! Otherwise there would be riots to cut off an ass's arse for meat!

I don't think terrorism would really pay in the long term! Marrying off their daughters for some Mahr, is the way to go! Veena Malik was just the reconnaissance team. The catalog bride market is about to explode. Soon there would be love flowing between the two countries.

Nanhe-Munhe Indians would be calling Pakistan to ask their Nanas and Nanis, if everything is okay?! Ah-thooo! Just puked! When Nana-Nanis say they want to come to India, nanhe-munhe Indians would say, "you are better off in Pakistan onlee"!

Oh yes! There is going to be love in the air! In fact, I think, Indians should import 100% all women from Pakistan. So in a couple of generations - there would be no Pakis left or only satyrs would be hopping around!

So I would request all Indian fans of Veena Maliks, Marvi Memons, Hina Rabbis and Mira Sethis to turn off the Indus tap!

Best way to reclaim Pakistan!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2

Postby Vikas » 18 Apr 2011 13:29

Shiv, Check your Email.


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