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We are part of the game. The GoI will point at us and say "Sorry. We can't give you power. We don't have political support". We have to play our role
I wish that were true. But opposition to MMS's TSP love making ranges from non-existant to apathy. So, all of these love making gestures might actually consummate at the right time. And by that I mean, US kicking in with some gesture to MMS declariing India to be a global super power of the 21st century. In that euphoric sell out, it will only be CRamS, and perhaphs his like-minded BRites who will hold out .
ISLAMABAD: The top US military officer accused Pakistan’s intelligence agency of maintaining ties to militants in Afghanistan during a trip to Islamabad on Wednesday that was focused on easing diplomatic tensions.
Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Pakistan’s perceived foot-dragging in tackling strongholds in North Waziristan belonging to the Haqqani network and its continuing relationship with it was “the most difficult part” of the US-Pakistani relationship.
“It’s fairly well known that the ISI has a longstanding relationship with the Haqqani network,” he said in an interview with Pakistan’s daily Dawn newspaper.
“Haqqani is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans and killing coalition partners. And I have a sacred obligation to do all I can to make sure that doesn’t happen.”
“So that’s at the core – it’s not the only thing — but that’s at the core that I think is the most difficult part of the relationship,” Mullen said.
Pakistan’s powerful Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has long been suspected of maintaining ties to the Haqqani network, cultivated during the 1980s when Jalaluddin Haqqani was a feared battlefield commander against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
“I don’t know what kind of relationship he’s talking about,” a senior Pakistani intelligence official told Reuters. “If he means we’re providing them with protection, with help, that’s not correct. Even if you are enemies, you have a relationship.”
He said that Pakistan had attacked Haqqani’s positions and raided his mosques in the past. “Right now, we are not attacking him because we are fully engaged against another group, the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP),” he said.
Pakistan has been criticised in the past for distinguishing between “good” Taliban militants and “bad” ones, with the Haqqani network falling squarely into the former category.
While based in Pakistan’s wild North Waziristan area on the Afghan border, Haqqani refrains from attacking the Pakistani state and is seen as a way to maintain Pakistani influence in any future political settlement in Kabul.
The TTP, on the other hand, is a declared enemy of the Pakistani state and has been at war with the its army since 2007.
Before the trip, Mullen acknowledged that “we’ve had a very turbulent time,” but added that despite the tensions, all sides acknowledged the relationship was vital.
“I think that all of us believe that we cannot afford to let this relationship come apart,” Mullen said, referring to US and Pakistani military and intelligence chiefs.
“It’s just too dangerous. It’s too dangerous, in each country, for each country. It’s too dangerous for the region.”
He acknowledged that the relationship was difficult, but added: “We walk away from it at our peril, quite frankly.” – Reuters
SureshP wrote:
Thats Mullen not mincing his words in Isloo.
Are you sure, I mean from India's POV, is there much to laugh about? Read this quote carefully once again
“It’s fairly well known that the ISI has a longstanding relationship with the Haqqani network,” he said in an interview with Pakistan’s daily Dawn newspaper.
“Haqqani is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans and killing coalition partners. And I have a sacred obligation to do all I can to make sure that doesn’t happen.”
“So that’s at the core – it’s not the only thing — but that’s at the core that I think is the most difficult part of the relationship,” Mullen said
Have you noticed that Mullen missed out another network besides Haqqani network, dismantling of which is at the core of what US wants from TSP, and dismantling the unreferenced network is at the core of what India wants from TSP? And Mullen also says "it's not the only thing", meaning he is leaving room for some compromise with TSP if it takes on Haqqani. Can you guess what the compromise might be? And could it be that to seek that compromise is exactly why TSP is holding out? Think hard before smiling in satisfaction at what Mullen said.
Last edited by CRamS on 20 Apr 2011 21:24, edited 2 times in total.
This statement by Mullen needs to be dealt with contempt by India - It has no value for India nor a cause for celebration, and this is not something Mullen discovered all by himself overnight and unknown to India. It still attributes ISI to acting against American interests, and does not make any reference to ISI acting against Indian interest for the past 25+ years.
Getting the Military Out of Pakistani Politics
( Uncle has actually start thinking ?)
Despite U.S. efforts to promote it, stability is hardly Pakistan's distinguishing feature. Indeed, many observers fear that Pakistan could become the world's first nuclear-armed failed state. Their worry is not without reason. More than 63 years after independence, Pakistan is faced with a crumbling economy and a pernicious Taliban insurgency radiating from its Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), the semiautonomous seven districts and six smaller regions along its border with Afghanistan. It is still struggling to meet its population's basic needs. More than half its population faces severe poverty, which fuels resentment against the government and feeds political instability.According to the World Bank, the Pakistani state's effectiveness has actually been in steady decline for the last two decades. In 2010, Foreign Policy even ranked Pakistan as number ten on its Failed States Index, placing it in the "critical" category with such other failed or failing states as Afghanistan, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Somalia. The consequences of its failure would no doubt be catastrophic, if for no other reason than al Qaeda and its affiliates could possibly get control of the country's atomic weapons. The Pakistani Taliban's dramatic incursions into Pakistan's northwestern Buner District (just 65 miles from the capital) in 2009 raised the specter of such a takeover.
SureshP wrote:“I don’t know what kind of relationship he’s talking about,” a senior Pakistani intelligence official told Reuters. “If he means we’re providing them with protection, with help, that’s not correct. Even if you are enemies, you have a relationship.”
So, the pakis admit that they have a relationship with Haqqani.
ISLAMABAD: The top US military officer accused Pakistan’s intelligence agency of maintaining ties to militants in Afghanistan during a trip to Islamabad on Wednesday that was focused on easing diplomatic tensions.......................
..................
Before the trip, Mullen acknowledged that “we’ve had a very turbulent time,” but added that despite the tensions, all sides acknowledged the relationship was vital.
“I think that all of us believe that we cannot afford to let this relationship come apart,” Mullen said, referring to US and Pakistani military and intelligence chiefs.
“It’s just too dangerous. It’s too dangerous, in each country, for each country. It’s too dangerous for the region.”
He acknowledged that the relationship was difficult, but added: “We walk away from it at our peril, quite frankly.” – Reuters
Actually, by saying the last bit "...at our peril,....", Mullen has blown it. This will reinforce the paki view that they've got unkil by the short and curlies. If you read 'Obama's Wars', you'll see that Mullen is a major cause for the disarray and endless patience with the Pakis. He blathers and this latest utterance shows that he's in way over his head and his frustration is showing.
It'd be interesting to see if Petraeus takes over Panetta's job at CIA when Gates retires and Panetta replaces him. Love to see what Petraeus does because he's not a Mullen and he's got his sights on 2016.
Alright, Now what did poor Manjarekar do now? He no longer slows the run rate with his favourite stroke (The forward defence stroke).
Correction: His entire repertoire of strokes included the forward defence stroke and the backward defence stroke, which he used with devastating effect against the batting side.
anandsgh wrote:Don't worry, Pakis can only talk about it. Yindoos are doing it. See the hot hot Veena Malik photu shoot.Yep! Bad hair, bad skin, baggy eyes and a personality to match. Yindoos don't need to own her. She is offering herself to India at every turn.
Building batta rahi hai ki, Kaffi kirayedar guuzar chukee hai.
Mahendra wrote:MMS and Sanjay Manjrekar are probably the 2 most loved Indians in Bakistan
Whats the context in which SM is mentioned here. Did he make some kind of a WKK statement? Did I miss it? He does seem overawed and cowed by TSP TFTA traits though. Time & again his statements reflect this. For e.g., how big Afridi's palms are compared to SDRE cricketers. And during the MMS-Paki terrorist love fest in Mohali, SM was mentioning how slow India's pacers are compared with the terrorists, and how in TSP those with SDRE pace won't even be considered. In response, Michael Atherton started the TFTA angle too, but fortunatley, a wicket fell or boundary was hit, and SM didn't get a chance to reply and the conversation rightly reverted back to the action, and I was spared more BS from SM.
Gagan wrote:Alright, Now what did poor Manjarekar do now? He no longer slows the run rate with his favourite stroke (The forward defence stroke).
Correction: His entire repertoire of strokes included the forward defence stroke and the backward defence stroke, which he used with devastating effect against the batting side.
That's really funny.
It's like 'I'm going to score own goals and no one's going to stop me."
Rant Begins
There was a time when TSP thread was about Pakistan.
When we delighted at how Pakistanis were throwing towels.
When we made fun of everything they did.
These days it is more about MMS and why Indians are bad.
In the good old days we actually tried to implement a policy of not equalitis. These days BRF pays a lip service to it.
Why don't we reincarnate the rona-dhona thread? All anti-India, anti-MMS, anti-Sonia posts can go there.
Give me back my admin powers(*) and I shall make BRF a better place.
Rant Ends
.umm - how shall I describe this? Quaint? Naive? Just silly? I was interested in finding out where it has been filmed. A lot of things (accents, clothes) suggest Amreeka. The decor is modern- could be Amreeka but could just as well be Packeestan. Those full-sleeved hooded garments are typically American. My kids got them only as hand me downs from cousins.
Jaspreet wrote:Rant Begins
There was a time when TSP thread was about Pakistan.
When we delighted at how Pakistanis were throwing towels.
When we made fun of everything they did.
These days it is more about MMS and why Indians are bad.
In the good old days we actually tried to implement a policy of not equalitis. These days BRF pays a lip service to it.
Why don't we reincarnate the rona-dhona thread? All anti-India, anti-MMS, anti-Sonia posts can go there.
Give me back my admin powers(*) and I shall make BRF a better place.
Rant Ends
--------------------
(*) I don't mean it.
IOW, you're suggesting we chuck experience and embrace hope..Hey! why not? We can always come back to hope over experience. This way threads are immortal..
NEW DELHI: After grandly proclaiming that India and Pakistan will resume playing cricket, the government seemed to take a step back on Wednesday with foreign secretary Nirupama Rao saying that there was no decision yet on resumption of cricket ties with Pakistan. Resumption of cricket was being looked upon as one of the main confidence building measures in PM Manmohan Singh's initiative to re-engage Pakistan.
With India deciding to resume cricketing ties with Pakistan after a hiatus, External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna said on Tuesday that the plan for a series of matches between the two neighbours was a call for the Board for Control of Cricket in India (BCCI) to take.
"That is something the cricket control board of India will have to take a call on. The government can only be a facilitator. It cannot dictate to the cricket control board. It is their domain," Krishna told reporters on the sidelines of a book launch function in New Delhi.
Kangress is losing pulse of the nation seriously whether its relations with pakis or the lokpal seems like they are bent on harakiri. Yuvraj needs to dine with some middle class folks to bring these old idiots on track
Last edited by Brad Goodman on 21 Apr 2011 06:31, edited 1 time in total.
I dont know how pakis are going to take this. For every kanspiracy theory beleiver Chomsky is equivalent of Eienstien. They are never tired of repeating his theories
New York, April 20(ANI): Pakistan has "undoubtedly" supported terrorist groups in Kashmir and terrorism in India, renowned scholar and author Professor Noam Chomsky has said.
Speaking about Pakistan's outlook towards India, Chomsky said that the Pakistan military has a strategic doctrine that they have to have a military presence in Afghanistan to counter India.
"That's a losing proposition because Pakistan cannot compete with India in terms of military force," The Express Tribune quoted Chomski, as saying.
"Besides, the strategic position in Afghanistan doesn't really mean anything in case of a war," he added.
Chomski, who serves as Professor Emeritus at Cambridge University, also categorically pointed towards Pakistan's hand in fuelling terrorism in India, especially the Kashmir region.
"Pakistan has undoubtedly supported terrorist groups in Kashmir and terrorism in India, which has made the situation worse," he said. (ANI)
New Delhi, Apr 19 (PTI) To practice its war-fighting concepts and doctrines, the Indian Army will hold a massive wargame codenamed 'Vijaya Bhava' along the Pakistan border in first week of May."The Division-level (around 15,000 troops) exercise would be held in the deserts of Western Rajasthan where the elements of the elite 2 Strike Corps and other formations will take part," Army sources said here.Sources said the exercise would be held "well inside" the border where all fighting arms of the Indian Army including the artillery, armoured columns including tanks and mechanised vehicles will take part.As part of war-fighting arrangements, the Indian Army has put its three Strike Corps, which are supposed to strike and enter enemy territories in case of war, under three different commands.The Army will evolve and practice battlefield tactics for different warfare scenarios for a conventional conflict with the adversaries.Defence Minister A K Antony will also visit the area of exercise in Rajasthan.In the aftermath of Operation Parakram in 2001, the Indian Army has evolved a doctrine which calls for a rapid and quite mobilisation of troops to the fronts from hinterland and continuous efforts have been made to cut the time taken for movement of formations
JODHPUR: Strengthening its presence along Pakistan border, the Indian Air Force will deploy two squadrons of its frontline air superiority Su-30MKI fighter here.
"We have decided to deploy two squadrons of Su-30MKI fighter squadrons in Jodhpur in next two years," South Western Air Command chief Air Marshal A K Gogoi told reporters here.
Dawn’s version of US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, Admiral Michael Mullen’s comment linking the Intelligence Agency of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the ISI, and the Islamic Terrorist Haqqani network:
Mullen launches diatribe against ISI
By Baqir Sajjad Syed
ISLAMABAD: The US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, Admiral Michael Mullen, was in a mood to name and shame on Wednesday.
Without mincing his words, he made it clear that ISI’s continued links with the Haqqani network were at the core of Pakistan’s problematic relations with the United States.
He said ISI’s relationship with the network was unacceptable to the American leadership.“The ISI has a rich history of how they operated in this part of the world, to protect their own country; I understand that some of the aspects of that we strongly disagree with and that is something that we continue to address.” …………………
It is pertinent to mention here that the Pakistan Army and the ISI have repeatedly denied these allegations and have asked for evidence in support of such charges.
“It is fairly well known that ISI had a relationship with the Haqqani network and addressing the Haqqani network from my perspective is critical to the solution set in Afghanistan. … that’s at the core — it’s not the only thing — but that’s at the core that I think is the most difficult part of the relationship,” Admiral Mullen, who is quite often criticised for being soft on the Pakistan military, said in an interview with Dawn. …………………….
^^ Why should we be waiting for US rubicons to be crossed to punish Pak?
Is there nothing called a Indian "rubicon/red-line"? Why is that every new outrageous attack in Desh by Pakis causes the red-line to be shifted and we start looking towards Unkil to deliver the jhapad on our behalf and keep that a American chief of staff didn't mention Paki terror in India and was only concerned about Paki terror against US?
I dont know if this has been discussed but looks to be very serious.
not really. pakis see their nuclear detergent eroding so they buy some more fillers. qualitatively any strike whether on Indian soil or on Indian forces have no difference, they both count as first strike.
anupmisra wrote:Dawn issues an apology to my letter
They did not publish the entire letter (but modified parts of it - note - Conflict Zones) and did admit an error on their part.
REFERENCE your editorial titled ‘Kashmir killings’ (April 11).
However, the State Department report on human rights says that the over 1,600 fatalities in 2010 included security personnel too, and related not just to Kashmir but to conflict zones all over India.
ANUP MISRA
New York
The editorial was based on an incorrect report, and we express our regrets.
— Editor
Here's my original letter to Dawn:
Dear Sir,
Regarding your editorial titled "Kashmir killings", your newspaper has misreported (and thus, misrepresented) on the US State Department's report on extra-judicial killings in India.
Your editorial states "The State Department report about extrajudicial killings in India-held Kashmir must come as a shock to all, for it reports no less than 1,600 unlawful executions by Indian security agencies in one year alone." and you have gone ahead and built an entire attacking and slanderous editorial on this faulty statement. However, a careful review of the State Department's 2010 Human Rights Reports has this to say "There were numerous reports that the government and its agents committed arbitrary or unlawful killings, including extrajudicial killings of suspected criminals and insurgents, especially in areas of conflict such as Jammu and Kashmir, the Northeastern States, and the Naxalite belt, where nongovernmental forces also committed such killings (see section 1.g.). According to the Institute for Conflict Management, as of October 17, there were 1,616 fatalities in the country--including members of security forces, individuals classified by the government as terrorists, and civilians--which represented a decrease from 2,231 fatalities in 2009."
Clearly you have twisted facts to suit your mood and rile up the general population. Your newspaper has committed a grave error in misreporting, misrepresenting claims, and built a fictitious editorial based on half truths. I hope you have the moral fiber to retract your editorial and present actual facts. An apology is owed. But I am not going to hold my breath.
Disappointingly yours,
Anup Misra
Anup
So, basically they 'regretted an error' and put your good name next to words you did not write, to confirm for their readers that there are 'conflicts all over India'.
In fact, without the second para, nothing of what you wrote got published that would require them to own up that it was not an error but indicative of the 7000000000 mindset.
Such are the pitfalls in dealing with pathlogical liars but you did good.
sum wrote:Why is that every new outrageous attack in Desh by Pakis causes the red-line to be shifted and we start looking towards Unkil to deliver the jhapad on our behalf
Oh. . wait for another decade by which time we would have clocked a scorching GDP so that the economic and military disparities between India & Pakistan would be so enormous and Indian clout among world powers would be so dominating that we can deliver the jhapad.
Besides that line of reasoning, there is also the undeniable fact that the US restrained us on both occassions (after 13/12 & 26/11) and we meekly obeyed. After 13/12, the US said that Musharraf would make an important broadcast to his nation outlining what he was going to do. That broadcast immensely pleased our leaders who believed his words and stopped on their tracks. Then, Musharraf made a farce of the bans of terrorist tanzeems and arrest of their leaders. They were all released through the now famous 'revolving door'. India, angered by the fact that they had been taken for a royal ride, bristled. This time around, the US issued travel advisories along with its Western allies and IT czars of India joined the chorus and tied down the hands of the Indian leaders who probably were looking for some excuse themselves anyway. Every Indian Government has been confused, weak and vulnerable to American pressure.
The top US military official’s interview indicated that in his meetings with Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman Gen Khalid Shameem Wynne and Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, he would discuss US concerns about the Haqqani network as well as the growing outreach of terror networks allegedly operating from Pakistan, including the Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jamaatud Dawah{some awareness here, this much we know} and Tehrik-i-Taliban.
He depicted a destabilising scenario in which terror groups such as LeT, JuD, Al Qaeda and the Haqqani network would become increasingly interlinked. {paper's slant, sometime in the future}
“What I worry about all these organisations, whether it is Haqqani network, Al Qaeda, JuD, LeT… there is a syndication which has occurred in the region here over the course of last three years, {has this happenned in the last 3 yrs onlee..} which is more and more worrisome and increasingly so TTP, under [Hakimullah] Mehsud, has espoused aspirations outside the region,” he maintained.
The situation, Mullen said, led to the conclusion “that this area… the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan is the epicenter of terrorism in the world”.
But more damning were his comments that “it [the terrorism in the region] breeds and breeds more and more in terms of capability over time”.
On more than one occasion during the interview, he suggested a close collaboration between India, Afghanistan and Pakistan { } to deal with the terror threat emanating from the tribal areas.
.
} to deal with the terror threat emanating from the tribal areas.