Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Apr 2011 10:22

^^^

Step in the rigth direction. But until the Afghanistan govt builds the fence pending the resolution of the Durand Line dispute. The TSP will never be quaranteened.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 15 Apr 2011 10:39

Pratyush wrote:^^^

Step in the rigth direction. But until the Afghanistan govt builds the fence pending the resolution of the Durand Line dispute. The TSP will never be quaranteened.

Perhaps Mr. Ram Narain Brandy will help.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 15 Apr 2011 11:07

^^^^^

who is Ram Narain Brandy? im sorry i did not get it?

James B · Post by **James B** » 15 Apr 2011 11:11

Talks futile till 26/11 perpetrators are booked: BJP

BJP says

Reiterating its reservations on engagement with Pakistan, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Wednesday asked the government to build pressure on Islamabad to make it accountable for the alleged role of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in the 26/11 attack.

Congress replies

However, Congress spokesperson Manish Tewari asked the BJP to look at their track record before pointing fingers at the government. “They [the BJP] should be the last to preach after bending on their knees after the hijack of the Indian Airlines flight to Kandahar,” he quipped.

Mr. Tewari said that the BJP should ask questions about engagement of Atal Behari Vajpayee with the then Pakistan President, Pervez Musharraf, on the sidelines of the SAARC Summit in 2004 after the terrorist attack on Parliament.

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 15 Apr 2011 11:38

who is Ram Narain Brandy? im sorry i did not get it?

Per Hilaly on the Times Now debate a couple of days back, Mr. Brandy (loved G Parthasarathy's reaction when Hilaly was blurting out the "facts" he came armed with) is a RAA agint causing mischief in Af.

OT: On the lighter side, this may become a FAQ - similar to "Who is John Galt?"

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 15 Apr 2011 12:02

I have been visiting this thread for years. I just wonder, what do you guys think our national priority should be? I mean should dealing with Pakis be our national priority at all or not? I mean in overall scheme of things how much does Pakistan matter to us?

If social justice and welfare of our citizens is our goal, how much constraint does Pakistan put on us in achieving those goals? DO they really matter that much? What's the opportunity cost of dealing with Paki lunatics?

In my mind I never get a clear answer. I don't think Pakistan is that much of a constraint on us. Infrastructure, curruption and governance void to my mind are bigger issues... I don't know where I am going with this... just a thought...

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 15 Apr 2011 12:22

^ I have thought of the same question many times and here is the path I wish our people would follow. I maybe wrong / correct , so just putting this up for debate

1- Internal growth with respect to GDP , Education , Infrastructure , Defense and communal harmony is what should be the number one priority.
2- Keeping an eye on the external threats (which also hamper our internal security) and keeping them "busy" with their own internal matters (free balochistan !) should be done covertly (I believe this is happening to a certain extent).
3- We should not be satisfied to playing second fiddle to Unkil and cheen but must look forward to get past them in the next 20 years.
4- And grow a backbone for fu*ks sake. We have achieved something in the last 20 years despite our flawed governance so we the common people need to grow balls and start dictating terms to our own rulers about what and how we want them to do it.

I may not be as experienced as many of our BRFites , excuse my naivete but this is what one feels when thinking of the future of a stable and powerful and happy India. These are my 2 paise and maybe others can make a Rs. 1000 note out of this.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 15 Apr 2011 12:33

^^^

Also does confronting Pakistan means we risk 9% growth? If answer is yes in short term, then how much growth can we expect after we have dealt with them? Will it make up for the delta? And, can we deal with them effectively enough to ensure they are finished with India obsession once and for all?

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 15 Apr 2011 13:00

^ The only way deal with pak is to break it off into small states (balkanization) which will not have enough power to cause trouble to us.

As for the impact of it on our economy , if we look at the expenses we incur for managing paki border as well as J&K and then we can get an idea as to what will be the impact of it once the root of evil is uprooted. I am sure it must be substantial with respect to our GDP.

Hostile confrontation at this moment is not something we should undertake , maybe a push here and a nudge there to give an idea as to who's the boss.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 15 Apr 2011 13:12

CRamS wrote:ArnabG showed his immautiry on this latest show. Debating MMS's hare-brained decision to play cricket with TSP is an Indian internal issue, so the debate should have been between those who share MMS's decision and those who don't. Why invite useless Paki chutiyas who will come & repeat the same crap, and in any case, they are not going to say MMS's surrender is a bad idea.

And deny the Indian public what the Pakis are upto? Come on CRS. it is things like this which expose the MMS's policies to the masses. You are undermining your own argument.

Did you notice how Arnab put the BCCI person in place when he suggested that we should continue to negotiate with TSP?

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 15 Apr 2011 13:40

^^^^
Late Sri K Subramanium had this to say,
1. Grow at 9% for next twenty years, build necessary infrastructure, with lesser corruption and efficient administration, then, from there on the Indian entrepreneurship genes will see to it that we are a wealthy nation.
2. Information technology era will grow may be up till 2020, make most of it, but be prepared for the next wave hitting the shores, and that is ET, Envirotech. Which simply means efficient energy systems, products and services that utilize less of Carbon and leave out less of carbon di oxide. Thats that famous sputnik moment which Obama was talking about. A nation, that can capitalize on this technology will make money in the next 20 years ie, till 2040. With an English speaking technically ok labor force that India can provide .
3. We need to partner with America in this . And why? not ask Japan also , to help us. As natural democracies we can fit in. Plus we are talking to state department types and Businessmen and not to pentagon folks.
4. There are other benefits, Like the huge medical city that is coming up on the outskirts of Bangalore. American mediclaim burden, can be outsourced at a cheaper cost to India, reducing their deficits.
5. Pakistan, will always be a problem, keep an eye on it. They have already lost the bus of globalization, in that huge strategic fight for depth in Afghanistan. And it is unlikely that they will catch up with the ET wave also. Illiteracy and conflicts will not allow them, to consolidate gains on their human capital. The result is that , they will miss the bus, for catching up with the peak demographic dividend window, between 2025 and 2030. Beyond that the nation will have real chances of splintering.
6. ET will also in the longer run, help curtail the growth of Oil economies,and their extremist philosophies, because their power is reduced.
7. The national security state of Pakistan, with no help from USA and Arab world, will increasingly become dependent on China , but it will be more difficult for Pakistan to cope with Chinese,than the Americans. One day the hills (pathans) will rage against the valley (punjab)...as it has always done in history. The fight for a corridor for the last of oil reserves in Central Asia, will put such immense pressure, that there will be no peace in Pakistan.
8. Ensure great relationship with everyone in the neighborhood, but give Pakistan no attention or favors.

Great legacy left by one of India`s finest sons. Keep talking, with Pakistan, after all diplomacy is "saying, sweet doggy and cute doggy, until you can find a stone" , please do not fall into an accidental war.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 15 Apr 2011 14:15

ranjbe wrote:One should realize that US-born India/Pakistan experts in the USA do not represent the best and the brightest. The cream of the crop specialized in Russian Studies until the 90's and now seem to be drawing toward learning Manadarin and specializing in Chinese studies. Anyone reading Uneven Cohen's books would realize that he wasn't the brightest bulb in US strategic community. In fact, there was another Stephen Cohen who was/is much better known as an expert on Russia in Washington, DC.
Remember, Ms. Fair is still just an Assistant Professor, after all these years. Maybe it is her lack of tact rather than her capability that could have caused this.

welcome to brf.

perhaps, but that is whom we have to deal with. and given all that she has been doing she will prolly get there too.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 15 Apr 2011 14:43

Menon, Rajdeep and Sri saar, what you say in your post sounds very reassuring but just for fun, let's see what all can go wrong in those 20 years that we will take to be a suberbower -

1. Pakistan descends into pandemonium, jehadis seize Nukes & use it on India
2. Civil war with hordes of scared abduls & barbarians running towards Indian borders
3. JDAM on Indian cities
4. Terrorist attacks on symbolic institutions that take the shine off our progress & destroy investor confidence
5. Constant meddling in Kashmir by Pakistan leads to
a. disharmony between Hindu-Muslim countrywide (afaik, Deoband has made noises on Kashmir)
b. Gifting of territory by WKKs like MMS - Siachen/Sir Creek
6. The more India prospers, the more is the heartburn in Pindi & LaWhore, the more is the khujli to do something 'grand' in India to teach SDREs a lesson, how do you deter that?

Just from the top of my mind, some wild arguments but you'll get the drift.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Apr 2011 14:46

Rajdeep wrote:^ The only way deal with pak is to break it off into small states (balkanization) which will not have enough power to cause trouble to us.

As for the impact of it on our economy , if we look at the expenses we incur for managing paki border as well as J&K and then we can get an idea as to what will be the impact of it once the root of evil is uprooted. I am sure it must be substantial with respect to our GDP.

Hostile confrontation at this moment is not something we should undertake , maybe a push here and a nudge there to give an idea as to who's the boss.

Rajdeep ji,
that in fact is the ONLY solution! All other "solutions" should provide a means to get there, but balkanization of Pakistan should be the unquestionable goal. All else is maya!

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 15 Apr 2011 15:00

Benis Thread material onlee

Pakistan's transgender tribe of tax collectors

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiap ... tml?hpt=C1

There is a serious side though to this theatrical tactic. Pakistan's tax take is dire: barely 1 per cent of Pakistanis pay any income tax, and the government is frantically trying to increase its income -- partially to placate the International Monetary Fund. Pakistan wants to borrow up to another $5 billion from the IMF, which insists the state improves its tax collection.

The government is seriously indebted -- and only 1.9 million people in a country of 170 million filed tax returns at all last year. By some estimates 10 million people are registered to pay taxes in Pakistan; the great majority don't pay a rupee.

Pakistaniyat ka matlab kya ? Tax chori aur kya !!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Apr 2011 15:30

menon s wrote:^^^^^

who is Ram Narain Brandy? im sorry i did not get it?

Naughty naughty. A knock on the knuckles. You have not watched the mandatory 30 minutes if Times Now interview featuring Christine Fair.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Apr 2011 15:42

RajeshA wrote:
Rajdeep wrote:^ The only way deal with pak is to break it off into small states (balkanization) which will not have enough power to cause trouble to us.

As for the impact of it on our economy , if we look at the expenses we incur for managing paki border as well as J&K and then we can get an idea as to what will be the impact of it once the root of evil is uprooted. I am sure it must be substantial with respect to our GDP.

Hostile confrontation at this moment is not something we should undertake , maybe a push here and a nudge there to give an idea as to who's the boss.
Rajdeep ji,
that in fact is the ONLY solution! All other "solutions" should provide a means to get there, but balkanization of Pakistan should be the unquestionable goal. All else is maya!

Absolutely. GoI may claim "A prosperous Pakistan is in India's best interests" and all that. But, there is no escaping the fact that Pakistan must be nudged towards a split. We should not also allow too long a time for this to happen. As Rajdeep says, we must realize that we are also paying a huge price every minute Pakistan continues to exist in its present form. Every means at our disposal must be used to overwhelm Pakistan. We can appear to be all lovey-dovey if necessary (and not hesitate to use military coercion if there is a terrorist attack on us at the same time) but the only goal is to see Pakistan in smithereens and as practically early as possible. This will also be a great service to humanity.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Apr 2011 15:44

Chandragupta wrote:Menon, Rajdeep and Sri saar, what you say in your post sounds very reassuring but just for fun, let's see what all can go wrong in those 20 years that we will take to be a suberbower -

1. Pakistan descends into pandemonium, jehadis seize Nukes & use it on India
2. Civil war with hordes of scared abduls & barbarians running towards Indian borders
3. JDAM on Indian cities
4. Terrorist attacks on symbolic institutions that take the shine off our progress & destroy investor confidence
5. Constant meddling in Kashmir by Pakistan leads to
a. disharmony between Hindu-Muslim countrywide (afaik, Deoband has made noises on Kashmir)
b. Gifting of territory by WKKs like MMS - Siachen/Sir Creek
6. The more India prospers, the more is the heartburn in Pindi & LaWhore, the more is the khujli to do something 'grand' in India to teach SDREs a lesson, how do you deter that?

Just from the top of my mind, some wild arguments but you'll get the drift.

Continuing with the fun thoughts:

1. Pakistan descends into pandemonium, jehadis seize Nukes & use it on India

Pakistan has already descended into pandemonium. The jihadis (Pakistan army) already have nukes. Only the USA does not call them jihadis and we dhimmified Indians speak Americanese and accept that view and refuse to remove our blinkers and see what is clear to see. The Pakistan army is THE jihadi army with nukes. All that is left is for them to use it

2. Civil war with hordes of scared abduls & barbarians running towards Indian borders

Happened once in 1971. We took in 10 million refugees before fighting war. We are richer now and may want to take in 50 million?

3. JDAM on Indian cities

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1042761

4. Terrorist attacks on symbolic institutions that take the shine off our progress & destroy investor confidence

Bit late for that in the absence of JDAM. Soft targets are attacked because the best ones are protected.

5. Constant meddling in Kashmir by Pakistan leads to
a. disharmony between Hindu-Muslim countrywide (afaik, Deoband has made noises on Kashmir)
b. Gifting of territory by WKKs like MMS - Siachen/Sir Creek

Naah. Old hat. Been there done that. Not working. Deoband is allowed to say things and I am allowed to say fuk yourself to them. But that's about it.

6. The more India prospers, the more is the heartburn in Pindi & LaWhore, the more is the khujli to do something 'grand' in India to teach SDREs a lesson, how do you deter that?

Stop worrying about what you cannot predict and do what needs to be done.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Apr 2011 15:53

Pakistan to increase defence budget by 18%

Pakistan plans to hike its defence budget by 18 per cent to Rs. 582 billion during the upcoming fiscal year due to inflation and expenses on the war against terrorism, according to a media report today.

The Defence Ministry has sent a proposal to the federal government for allocating Rs. 582 billion for the defence budget for 2011-12.

The standing committee on defence of the National Assembly or lower house of parliament recently endorsed the proposed defence budget.

However, major political parties are yet to be taken into confidence on the defence budget, the report said.

This is all drama about political parties being taken into confidence etc. The defence budget is normally a one-liner in the budget proposals (since last year, it is a paragraph of a couple of sentences). Who has got the guts to question what the armed forces determines how amount of money it needs every year ?

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 15 Apr 2011 16:23

^^^

Artificially increasing the cost of 'War on terror'. This will lead to larger lota onlee...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Apr 2011 16:31

pakistan only survives when the army has a job to do funded by baksheesh
if it no longer has a role, then the baksheesh stops
therefore the pak fauj will do what it can to keep conflicts (any conflicts) simmering for as long as possible
only way to break the cycle is to dismantle the current rotten state

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Apr 2011 17:11

only way to break the cycle is to dismantle the current rotten state

Lal ji, been saying this for some years. There is no way out of this. Pakistan's biggest reason for turmoil is India. Paki's are right. This present state will see India's success as a threat. There's no identity as Muslim or whatever that can get them as much honor deep inside as being Indic. They know very deep inside. They revolt against that and look at more TFTA solutions to calm that truth bubbling inside. Yet they remain focussed on India. That it is imperative of them as moulded, to eliminate India, to cull and slaughter..all of which they have found solace in some doctrinal sanction. This State formed in revulsion to India will destroy itself. Despite MMS. Despite Gujral. Frankly we don't even need 20 % Indians talking about Paki balkanization..i myself am unable to plug the exact reason why..but i guess as long as we stand by Satyameva Jayete..those that stand against will be destroyed. Those that do seek the truth will end up our allies and friends.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Apr 2011 17:21

shiv wrote:Absolutely and if it were not for some informed interference by the likes of Arnab the Indian public too would lap up the sob story being told by Ms Fair.

I would hope not - that the Indian public that watches the show are wiser. But maybe that is part of the problem.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 15 Apr 2011 17:25

I guess the paki mentality is like a neighbor who buys a TV a day before you buy your TV. After a few days turns out his TV is not up to the mark so now he is jealous of your TV. Now a sane person would either get a new TV if he can afford it or live with the same TV but pakis being high on their insanity are trying to break the neighbors TV and make = =.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 15 Apr 2011 17:40

Rajdeep wrote:Benis Thread material onlee

Pakistan's transgender tribe of tax collectors

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiap ... tml?hpt=C1

There is a serious side though to this theatrical tactic. Pakistan's tax take is dire: barely 1 per cent of Pakistanis pay any income tax, and the government is frantically trying to increase its income -- partially to placate the International Monetary Fund. Pakistan wants to borrow up to another $5 billion from the IMF, which insists the state improves its tax collection.

The government is seriously indebted -- and only 1.9 million people in a country of 170 million filed tax returns at all last year. By some estimates 10 million people are registered to pay taxes in Pakistan; the great majority don't pay a rupee.
Pakistaniyat ka matlab kya ? Tax chori aur kya !!

Don't laugh. This strategy was tried in India as well.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 15 Apr 2011 18:17

^ The joke is not that Transgendered people are used for Tax collection , the fun part is that The government is seriously indebted -- and only 1.9 million people in a country of 170 million filed tax returns at all last year. By some estimates 10 million people are registered to pay taxes in Pakistan; the great majority don't pay a rupee.

I have made a quote of only that part of the article and nothing else saar.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 15 Apr 2011 18:55

X-posted from India-US strategic thread:

Looks like the message has gone out to the media to squeeze Pakis until they (presumably) yell 'Unkil':

"In the wake of 9/11, the Bush Administration famously sent Secretary of State Colin Powell to Islamabad to explain that the U.S. was going to act forcefully to protect itself, and that Pakistan had to choose whose side it was on. It's time to present Pakistan with the same choice again."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ns_opinion

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 15 Apr 2011 19:13

Purchased and quickly went through "To live or to perish forever" by Nicholas Schmidle. It is a very promising book. Then I Googled the author to find his recent writings and found a few good ones at "http://www.nicholasschmidle.com/articles.html" Then there was this one for those who love the Jelebi Lady.
"Slander
Meet the Ann Coulter of Pakistan".
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/slander
I must warn you there is a picture of her.
Enjoy.
Gautam

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 15 Apr 2011 19:41

Cosmo_R wrote:X-posted from India-US strategic thread:

Looks like the message has gone out to the media to squeeze Pakis until they (presumably) yell 'Unkil':

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ns_opinion

To me it sounds like Ombaba is doing an MMS on this one, dragging his feet on getting really really tough with the Pakistanis.
Now the US establishment is having to use the media to compare what Bush did with what needs to be done.

The americans would be seething at Pakistan's audacity. The Pakistanis actually demanding that CIA wrap up its intel ops!!! Shut down the drone program from within pakistan!!! (Basically that means shutting down Bandari airfield at Shamsi).

The Pakistanis should realize this - If they kick the CIA out of Pakistan, the ground work of intel gathering will then be done by RAW. It is Pakistan's choice - CIA or RAW - who do they want running around inside their country hain?

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 15 Apr 2011 20:07

Gagan saab

Pakis prefer RAA because they are confident that MMS will have over the inforamtion of all Raa agents on a daily basis or probably he will create some logins for Pukes to check it in our systems.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Apr 2011 20:19

You won't like this one- by none other than C.C. Fair
http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/ ... orner-5179

The ISI surely calculated that the CIA would begrudgingly accept these limitations while continuing to seek work-arounds. But in the end, Pakistan’s spooks may well be right. In this game of chicken, the Americans are likely to swerve.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Apr 2011 20:44

A_Gupta wrote:You won't like this one- by none other than C.C. Fair
http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/ ... orner-5179
The ISI surely calculated that the CIA would begrudgingly accept these limitations while continuing to seek work-arounds. But in the end, Pakistan’s spooks may well be right. In this game of chicken, the Americans are likely to swerve.

Fair is less academic than Uneven. She tends to speculate.

The two Pakistanis were expendable and Davis was a pawn that would wrench concessions from Washington but not bring the wrath of the United States upon Pakistan.

many suspect (and claim) the ISI may have forked over the cash—money being fungible, it hardly makes a difference.

I believe she is contradicting herself. If the ISI wanted all that stuff - why pay money and have Davis released?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 15 Apr 2011 21:39

saadhak wrote:
who is Ram Narain Brandy? im sorry i did not get it?
Per Hilaly on the Times Now debate a couple of days back, Mr. Brandy (loved G Parthasarathy's reaction when Hilaly was blurting out the "facts" he came armed with) is a RAA agint causing mischief in Af.

OT: On the lighter side, this may become a FAQ - similar to "Who is John Galt?"

since you seem to have watched the program, mind putting it in BR acronyms thread so that it can be added to brf compendium ?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Apr 2011 21:52

That Hilaly chap also mentioned a "Robert Singh"...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Apr 2011 22:06

^^
A Sikh ? I knew one, but I doubt if he had ever been out of his hometown for more than a week.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Apr 2011 22:09

No her probably read an article somewhere by the shrill cow....

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 15 Apr 2011 22:50

Delete.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Apr 2011 22:51

shiv wrote:I believe she is contradicting herself. If the ISI wanted all that stuff - why pay money and have Davis released?

Because Pakistani civilian politics started interfering?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 15 Apr 2011 22:52

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan to increase defence budget by 18%This is all drama about political parties being taken into confidence etc.

This paki strategy borders on perfidy or pakfidy (I like this word). Its planning now for future begging from the west

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 15 Apr 2011 23:20

Pakis swearing at each other on national TV