The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2011 08:43

The point is 10,000 people in many cities are coming out for AH, voluntarily. No one is paying them to do it (if there is any proof that they are being paid or herded into vehicles by party workers, I would like to see.)

INC somehow doesnt seem to believe this since even yesterday night, Rashid Alvi was repeating over and over and over again that AH didnt have the organizational skill to have so many people across so many cities coming out in his favour.

He kept saying that there was definitely a good organizational hand behind this which cannot be of AH and team . He kept repeating this despite being heckled by all other panelists which only means INC somehow feels ( or knows) that there is something more to AH than usual...

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby AnimeshP » 19 Aug 2011 09:12

sum wrote:
The point is 10,000 people in many cities are coming out for AH, voluntarily. No one is paying them to do it (if there is any proof that they are being paid or herded into vehicles by party workers, I would like to see.)

INC somehow doesnt seem to believe this since even yesterday night, Rashid Alvi was repeating over and over and over again that AH didnt have the organizational skill to have so many people across so many cities coming out in his favour.

He kept saying that there was definitely a good organizational hand behind this which cannot be of AH and team . He kept repeating this despite being heckled by all other panelists which only means INC somehow feels ( or knows) that there is something more to AH than usual...


Since when did INC spokespersons become the epitome of truth and honesty ?? INC also kept saying (thru Diggi Raja & A R Antulay) that 26/11 was a RSS conspiracy ... does that also mean that there is something more to 26/11 than what the public knows ... :roll:
Arun Jaitley very rightly said while responding to the PM's statement. He said that if the govt. is making an allegation that foreign powers are out to destabilize India through AH, then govt must present the facts to at least the parliament and not make vague insinuations about it through party spokesmen in the media

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2011 09:50

Since when did INC spokespersons become the epitome of truth and honesty ?? INC also kept saying (thru Diggi Raja & A R Antulay) that 26/11 was a RSS conspiracy ... does that also mean that there is something more to 26/11 than what the public knows ... :roll:

Well, you are preaching to the choir but what i meant to show by that was unlike in other instances( RSS and 26/11 where massive downhill skiing happened later by INC), the spokesperson is not backtracking from his position despite the heckling meaning that the powers that be are convinced there is more to it than just Anna alone

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Philip » 19 Aug 2011 11:20

3 cheers to Rudra's dad! May his tribe increase.All over the country Indians have been elctrified with AH's zeal and passion.It is as if another freedom struggle has been born.The fact that the legendary Bombay "tiffinwallahs" are to go on strike for the first time in 120 years in support for AH says it all.

The AH phenomenon rminds me of that great Hollywood film "Network" when veteran anchorman Howard Beale goes amok and asks Americans to stick their heads out of their windows and shout "I can't take it anymore".India's mainly urban middle-class have had enough and following Beale's (AH's) advice they're shouting out loud to the nation and the world that they can't take it -UPA and nation-wide corruption anymore.

It is a tragic commentary on the Indian nation of the day that we have a spineless,speechless and selfish man...sorry eunuch at the head of our country,"Uncle Scam".There was a superb cartoon by Oliphant,in the Deccan Chronicle,about Obama which fits Uncle Scam totally.It is based upon that famous poem by William H Means.In the cartoon,a man on a stairace is asking Obama what is he going to do about the US economy and gets no reply!

""Yesterday upon the stair, I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today, Oh how I wish he'd go away."

The dereliction of duty by our godfather of corruption,MMS,has led to the cacaphonic cackling of Congress chamchas,clueless clucking (headless) chickens,creating complete chaos! From Sibalistic ballistics,hilarity from Renuka C,cheapies from Manish Tiwari, donkey bay from Digvijay,we have the stalwarts of the GOP displaying themselves as the nation's most entertaining buffoons and ignoramuses.However,the cost of this entertaining spectacle is being borne by the ordinary Indian,the very same "aam aadmi" that the PM spoke of whom he has betrayed without any feeling or remorse whatsoever.

It is past time for another "Quit India" movement for the likes of snake-oil Singh and his merry men and women.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Sanku » 19 Aug 2011 11:37

Philip, I am quite tired of you regularly insulting Eunuchs, constables and other such harmless and poor marginalized folks.

Do you think they like being compared with this uber spineless kiss-ass wonder? Heck last seen even mollusks were complaining.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Philip » 19 Aug 2011 11:53

Sanku,my deepest apologies to molluscs et al.I forgot all about them! Perhaps I shall now describe our political wonders as "honourable men",I'm sure Brutus won;t be complaining!

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajkumar » 19 Aug 2011 12:05

Its so nice to see the trianga in peoples hand :mrgreen:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 12:11

Sanku wrote:Philip, I am quite tired of you regularly insulting Eunuchs, constables and other such harmless and poor marginalized folks.

Do you think they like being compared with this uber spineless kiss-ass wonder? Heck last seen even mollusks were complaining. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


After returning to this thread after a couple of days (instead of lurking quietly) I am glad to see that some realise that, and I'll put it in my own words, the fantastic bi-partisan support exhibited in parliament is for passage of a weak Lok Pal bill. Nothwistanding the exhibition of anger, the debate and the table thumping used to ridicule the weak, headless and corrupt UPA.

This is, politically, a time for the opposition to do what they have always been good at. To score brownie points so that they can get to power.

Opposing a Govt. for the sake of the good of the people and the country seems not to be the prime objective for most of them. Reminds me of them wearing the same rainment, which was worn by the emperor who wore no clothes!

Coming back to the bi-partisan support. The opposition, last evening, ducked Arnab Goswami's repeated query. How far will you support a strong Lok Pal bill? Not AH's bill which may still have flaws, but a bill which will make and have the powers to effectivley combat corruption?

They ducked the question. (Reminded me of Donald Duck quacking. I won't share the image I had of the UPA crowd since it was unspeakably disgusting :roll: ) Citing Parliament and democratic institutions. Proof of the pudding being the impeacment proceedings against Justice Sen.

The same Parliament and institutions which our elected representatives (who don't represent) have devalued over the decades, slowly chipping away.

I do feel that tabling a strong enough bill in parliament will be the first success of a long war against corruption. But the bigger battles to come will be the passing of a bill which justly meets the objective, and putting in place a strong organisation to execute it.

Many a thorn, traps, legalese will be thrown in the path to winning this war. Even from politicians who will bleat the loudest supporting it, but will execute hidden agendas.

I sincerely hope that the people will have the strength and will to last the course.
Last edited by rajanb on 19 Aug 2011 12:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 12:13

Moral of the story will be Jan Lokpal Bill passed due to Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi who represent the wishes of the people. :rotfl:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby kmkraoind » 19 Aug 2011 12:13

Just my thoughts. I am not saying US is behind Anna Hazareji, but US is supporting Anna Hazareji and the cause. US wants a stable and assertive power between China and Middle east who has no geographical ambitions. India and Indians fits the bill perfectly, but corruption and lack of assertiveness is costing in its unmasking of its true potential who is the centripetal force of the world. Once the bottle necks are removed, Bharath can raise again and will be a good friend to US and that is why it is morally encouraging Anna. Probably it is indeed defining movement of India.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 12:24

kmkraoind wrote:Just my thoughts. I am not saying US is behind Anna Hazareji, but US is supporting Anna Hazareji and the cause. US wants a stable and assertive power between China and Middle east who has no geographical ambitions. India and Indians fits the bill perfectly, but corruption and lack of assertiveness is costing in its unmasking of its true potential who is the centripetal force of the world. Once the bottle necks are removed, Bharath can raise again and will be a good friend to US and that is why it is morally encouraging Anna. Probably it is indeed defining movement of India.


My 2 cents. The US realises that it has been on the wrong side of the people of Pakistan (Their strategic ally).

And they see a cooling off of the relationship of their "natural ally".

So they are making sure they start off on the right foot with people in India. And why not? its their perception of how to pursue their interests in the region and our duty to protect and pursue ours.

If people are happy that AH is keeping all colours of politicians at an arms length I would think the US isn't going to win much brownie points.

As an Indian, I would tell the US to keep their nose out of it, before it gets disjointed.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby merlin » 19 Aug 2011 12:28

GoI just needs to outwait AH. People backing him will soon be fatigued. How long can they go on if GoI does nothing? That's why my belief that all this will fizzle out. The middle class just does not have the stamina to fight on till the end.

The lesson that Theo is looking for is probably that corruption stops when supply outstrips demand. In the telecom sector for example, when people can bypass GoI and get cell phones from private companies, who would ever bother to bribe a BSNL officer/linesman for a connection? People will laugh at them if they ask for a bribe.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 12:31

merlin wrote:GoI just needs to outwait AH. People backing him will soon be fatigued. How long can they go on if GoI does nothing? That's why my belief that all this will fizzle out. The middle class just does not have the stamina to fight on till the end.

The lesson that Theo is looking for is probably that corruption stops when supply outstrips demand. In the telecom sector for example, when people can bypass GoI and get cell phones from private companies, who would ever bother to bribe a BSNL officer/linesman for a connection? People will laugh at them if they ask for a bribe.


For the sake of the people who want to stem corruption, I hope your crystal ball has had a short circuit. :wink:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Philip » 19 Aug 2011 12:32

Yes,staying the course is fundamental.Just a couple of days ago,the brutal assassination in MP,which has got precious little space of a great fesity woman RTI activist,also part of the AH brigade, shows us how vulnerable ordinary Indians fighting against the monsters who enslave us are.She repeatedly made complaints aaginst a top cop who had threatened her but nothing was dome about it and she was shor dead.Other RTI activists and "whistleblowers" across the country have also recd. a similar fate in the past and just like journos in Sri Lanka who are disappearing and being bumped off so too are our RTI activists.

The AH movement must also take up this cause and continue to be a massive "pressure point" on the political parties.

PS:All that the US want is a servile India that during WW2 ,sent lakhs of troops to fight for the Allies,which even the Mahatma supported. This while Netaji-no less a freedom fighter and patriot than Gandhi,on the other hand threw his lot in with the Japanese to free India!
India led by peace loving "Ghandians",practising a "vegetarian" (no offence to veggies!) style of diplomacy a complete opposite of the Paki NV style,is what the US desires.An India led by such "Gandhians" will eschew N-weapons and be a wonderful supplier of "peacekeepers" in various parts of the globe's troublespots,where the white man wishes to stay away from-like Somalia,the Congo,etc.,while the white man pursues his "fox-hunting" ways with expediitionary wars in places of his choice,usually resourcee rich smaller nations.A perfect example of such leaders are that of IK Gujral (and his infamous Gujral doctrine where he allgedly betrayed hundreds of RAW agents in Pak who where caught and executed) and his worthy successor Dr.MM Singh.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Dhiman » 19 Aug 2011 12:42

Theo_Fidel wrote:So is AH the Indian Tea Party.


Currently, more like a Political Action Committee as he is trying to push forward his agenda (anti-corruption) without getting into electoral fray.

But certainly, he can support and endorse candidates in existing political parties who he feels would help him to push his anti-corruption agenda. In this sense he certainly has the power to be the Indian Tea Party. If he does this well, then he would end up hijacking the existing political parties from inside just like what the Tea Party has done within the Republican party in many cases.

However, if he creates a copy cat political party in order to contest and fight elections, then certainly the chances there may not be too bright unless electoral reforms are carried out first.

In either case, Anna's movement does not seem to lack political acumen and does have brains behind it.

As long as it takes 6 years to get a water connection and 4 years for a sewer connection and 20 years to get a job from the job board and connections to get a simple railway ticket 3 days before travel, you are going to have corruption. No amount of lokpals will fix the situation.


The reason it takes six years to get water connection and four years for a sewer connection is because of bad governance and indifferent government. So corruption exists because of bad, inefficient, and ineffective government.

There is one section of India where corruption has vanished into the night. Phone/Cellphone service.


This is because GoI devolved is power in this sector, so that Phone/Cellphone service is no longer subjected to bad governance (except offcourse when the licenses need to be allocated to private players). If GoI devolves its control of Railways, Water, and Sewers, the same thing will happen there as well.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Dhiman » 19 Aug 2011 12:58

BJP president Nitin Gadkari and parliamentary leaders Sushma Swaraj and Arun Jaitley have also questioned the idea of Bills being made on the streets by any group, however well-meaning they are. Ms. Swaraj said as much on the floor of the Lok Sabha. The party also said that while it had problems with the government's draft, it was not in agreement with the ‘Jan Lokpal Bill' either.


There is a strong case to be made that Parliment does not act in the interest of people because of:
1. Large sacks of cash that are usually used to bribe MPs into voting one way or another.
2. Most MPs act as rubber stamps of party bosses anyway, they almost never draft bills nor to they usually care about drafting bills (provided that they bother to attend parliamentary sessions in the first place)
3. Parliament is full of criminals. I would rather take a bill drafted on the streets rather than one drafted by these idots whose only claim to fame is bad, ineffective, and often non-existing governance.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby NikhilB » 19 Aug 2011 13:00

vijayk wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/anna-fights-enemy;-bapu-tried-to-reform-him-greatgrandson/833853/
Anna fights enemy; Bapu tried to reform him: great-grandson

Mahatma Gandhi's great grandson Tushar has said there is a difference in the way the two leaders have used fasting as an instrument of protest.

He feels while for the Mahatma, fasting was a means to “reform an adversary”, in the case of Hazare, a self-professed Gandhian, it was like targeting an “enemy”.

“Hazare's fast is different because Bapu's fast was to reform an adversary into a friend, while Anna's fast is against an enemy. It is like a me versus you kind of thing,”

Tushar Gandhi told PTI.

“Hazare has become an icon of the desperation being felt by the people in India. However, there is an element of populism in the movement,” he said.


Is this the same guy who was rejected funding by MMS for Gandhi foundation? Why doesn't he speak about it openly? Instead, he is taking an indirect potshot at Anna.


I wonder what is the qualification of Tushar Gandhi to quote the difference apart from just being a biological great grandson of Bapu. What's the gurantee that he knows Bapu well and beleives in him. We Indians are obsessed with dynastic link everywhere.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby vera_k » 19 Aug 2011 13:13

Theo_Fidel wrote:So is AH the Indian Tea Party.


Seems more like the Progressive Party in how it has a left leaning agenda, yet draws support from the BJP.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2011 13:24

he wasnt even born when MKG died I guess.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby IndraD » 19 Aug 2011 13:51

Very good coverage of AH in British Media

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/au ... ed-indians

At the time I write this, millions of my countrymen are on the streets, fighting for a strong anti-corruption law. Many more are glued to their TV sets, watching developments as the initially defiant Indian government looks on track to eat humble pie.

Archaic laws, designed for autocratic, colonial rulers with no accountability (yes, blame the British for everything) have been retained and abused to the hilt by the current politicians. Power talks; truth and justice are often crushed. We remain a poor country, despite having world-class talent and ample natural resources


The Daily-
at every turn, the organisers of his campaign have been aided by the "blundering of the ruling Congress Party." "Their response has been a masterclass in ineptitude. First, they allowed Hazare and his appointees from 'civil society' to determine the proposed shape of new legislation. Then they quarrelled with him as he began negotiating with senior ministers; then they made concessions; then he announced he would go on another hunger strike if further demands were not met


For more international & US media coverage-

http://one.ndtv.com/special/126792?ch=53525253255

The intl media seems to be impressed by this man , and the coverage is certainly encouraging.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... India.html

A new Gandhi shakes the govt

India-oliticians, many of whom are the sons and daughters of other politicians, have failed to develop or entrench the reforms of the early 1990s. Effective legislation has not been introduced to make things change. It is this failure that makes people ready to back an outrider. They know the daily consequences of corruption – having to bribe a policeman for a traffic offence, or an official to issue a death certificate for a relative.


Anna H The new Gandhi

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_br ... hi_1577175


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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 14:48

merlin wrote:GoI just needs to outwait AH. People backing him will soon be fatigued. How long can they go on if GoI does nothing? That's why my belief that all this will fizzle out. The middle class just does not have the stamina to fight on till the end.

The lesson that Theo is looking for is probably that corruption stops when supply outstrips demand. In the telecom sector for example, when people can bypass GoI and get cell phones from private companies, who would ever bother to bribe a BSNL officer/linesman for a connection? People will laugh at them if they ask for a bribe.


Its too late to outwait. The message is already out. If the people are fatigued, we are preparing the second line for protests to continue.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 14:49



I saw one of the names there and have to ask this question:


Protest for corruption? :rotfl:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 15:20

rajanb wrote:I saw one of the names there and have to ask this question:


Protest for corruption? :rotfl:


Rajanb,

If they are willing to reform, they can join. Even if they don't plan, they are welcome to bcak such legislation. its a national security issue. Even the Tihar inmates were cheering Anna.

But, I understand what you are saying :rotfl:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby abhischekcc » 19 Aug 2011 16:00

I tend to agree with Tushar Gandhi's assessment of the differences. AH's movement (not AH as a person) is built to blackmail the government and subvert the democratic process. Today it is Anna, tomorrow it may somebody else claiming moral high ground and blackmailing the government. This way lies chaos.

I mean, if Anna really has so much popular support why does he and his core team members stand for elections? Or do they have so much contempt for public opinion that they think they do not endorsement from the people. SMS polls are not a valid democratic instrument you know :mrgreen:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 16:07

Its whitemail not blackmail.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby ashashi » 19 Aug 2011 16:19

abhischekcc wrote:I tend to agree with Tushar Gandhi's assessment of the differences. AH's movement (not AH as a person) is built to blackmail the government and subvert the democratic process. Today it is Anna, tomorrow it may somebody else claiming moral high ground and blackmailing the government. This way lies chaos.


This situation is not that simple. We have a situation of fox guarding the henhouse. And we have seen how the fox is resisting any meaningful legislation to protect the hens. Self preservation and and maintaining status quo is paramount for the fox where as Anna and the country is asking the fox to mutilate itself.

You can give the govt. (any party) all the time in the world, it would never come up with an effective solution. Any a champion like Anna can bring about change in the country.

There are lot of changes in the country in the recent years. 2G and CWG like corruption has been going on for 64 years. Until recently, it was unthinkable to for Raja and Kalmadi to be in Jail on corruption charges. Anna is the right person at the right time.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 16:35

Today it is Anna, tomorrow it may somebody else claiming moral high ground and blackmailing the government. This way lies chaos.


Yes, tomorrow Manish Tiwari, Digvijay Singh and Kapil sibal trio will claim moral high ground and blackmail the government not accept AH's version of Jan Lokpal and the people of India will support this trio very enthusiastically.

But It is not easy to claim moral high ground in India.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby IndraD » 19 Aug 2011 17:13

abhischekcc wrote:I mean, if Anna really has so much popular support why does he and his core team members stand for elections? Or do they have so much contempt for public opinion that they think they do not endorsement from the people. SMS polls are not a valid democratic instrument you know :mrgreen:


Honestly even I do not believe AH lokpal bill will eradicate corruption. But..

today AH represents resentment, anger and frustration of middle class

this middle class sees a connect between massive corruption and inflation with difficult day to day living

They feel some where that some thing positive will come out

they want to tell the govt we are heart broken and disappointed, no one listens to us

Any one underestimating his voice of dissent will meet same humiliation as the ruling party (their poor governance + arrogance has led them to thook gira kar chatna on whole issue)

Yes they may not be capable of winning election on own but a course correction in our democracy is under way and we support it whole heartedly.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 17:23

When Lokmanya Tilak/Gandhiji/Subhash Babu started something people have similar views that how these mannerless people from such a background will mobilize people against a superpower!

Also when Jayprakash challenged a repressive govt post independence.

Image

something in common:
New guys are also Magsaysay awardees like JP

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Muppalla » 19 Aug 2011 17:29

IndraD wrote:Honestly even I do not believe AH lokpal bill will eradicate corruption. But..

today AH represents resentment, anger and frustration of middle class

this middle class sees a connect between massive corruption and inflation with difficult day to day living

They feel some where that some thing positive will come out

they want to tell the govt we are heart broken and disappointed, no one listens to us


This is the only part that is correct and it is the anger that is puumping it. The entire middle class beyond being having anger does not have anything else. Sorry but that is proven several times. In 2009 elections INC got thumping majority from urban India. Take any crook today and all of them are elected by them. In fact, the urban India has more LS seats in 2009.

Any one underestimating his voice of dissent will meet same humiliation as the ruling party (their poor governance + arrogance has led them to thook gira kar chatna on whole issue)


INC does not need to care for its humiliation. Most of its voters never come on to street.

Yes they may not be capable of winning election on own but a course correction in our democracy is under way and we support it whole heartedly.


Let us see if they cource correct or cource destruct the democracy. Time will tell.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby IndraD » 19 Aug 2011 17:35

This interview of Salman Khurshid tells Congress core is-living in denial + delusion

don't assume congress doesn't have muscle power on streets

Eminent cardiac surgeon Naresh Trehan with team joins Anna-takes responsibility to examine him (AH) regularly

On news now-Salman Khurshid suggests AH team to talk to standing committee and suggests him to fight elections.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 17:37

History repeats at Ramlila Maidan (?)

Jayaprakash Narayan attracted a gathering of 100,000 people at the Ramlila Grounds and thunderously recited Rashtrakavi Ramdhari Singh 'Dinkar''s wonderfully evocative poetry: Singhasan Khaali Karo Ke Janata Aaati Hai.[3]

Narayan was kept as detenu at Chandigarh even after he had asked for a month's parole for mobilising relief in areas of Bihar gravely affected by flood. His health suddenly deteriorated on October 24, and he was released on November 12; diagnosis at Jaslok Hospital, Bombay, revealed kidney failure; he would be on dialysis for the rest of his life.

"Free JP" campaign was launched in UK by Surur Hoda and chaired by Nobel Prize winner Noel- Baker for the release of Jayaprakash Narayan.[4]


After Indira revoked the emergency on January 18, 1977 and announced elections, it was under JP's guidance that the Janata Party (a vehicle for the broad spectrum of the anti-Indira Gandhi opposition) was formed. The Janata Party was voted into power, and became the first non-Congress party to form a government at the Centre. On the call of Narayan many youngesters joined the J P movement.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 17:39

rajkumar wrote:Its so nice to see the trianga in peoples hand :mrgreen:


And Chanting Vande Mataram ||

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby merlin » 19 Aug 2011 17:43

chackojoseph wrote:
merlin wrote:GoI just needs to outwait AH. People backing him will soon be fatigued. How long can they go on if GoI does nothing? That's why my belief that all this will fizzle out. The middle class just does not have the stamina to fight on till the end.

The lesson that Theo is looking for is probably that corruption stops when supply outstrips demand. In the telecom sector for example, when people can bypass GoI and get cell phones from private companies, who would ever bother to bribe a BSNL officer/linesman for a connection? People will laugh at them if they ask for a bribe.


Its too late to outwait. The message is already out. If the people are fatigued, we are preparing the second line for protests to continue.


Ok, let's wait and watch then to see who is right.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Kanson » 19 Aug 2011 17:45

Dhiman wrote:
BJP president Nitin Gadkari and parliamentary leaders Sushma Swaraj and Arun Jaitley have also questioned the idea of Bills being made on the streets by any group, however well-meaning they are. Ms. Swaraj said as much on the floor of the Lok Sabha. The party also said that while it had problems with the government's draft, it was not in agreement with the ‘Jan Lokpal Bill' either.


There is a strong case to be made that Parliment does not act in the interest of people because of:
1. Large sacks of cash that are usually used to bribe MPs into voting one way or another.
2. Most MPs act as rubber stamps of party bosses anyway, they almost never draft bills nor to they usually care about drafting bills (provided that they bother to attend parliamentary sessions in the first place)
3. Parliament is full of criminals. I would rather take a bill drafted on the streets rather than one drafted by these idots whose only claim to fame is bad, ineffective, and often non-existing governance.

Well, it is becoming more and more obvious that experiment with current Parliamentary system has lost its sheen and passed the expiry date. Masses couldn't find any alternative system so they go by the current one. If the current parliamentary system function so well, there won't be such spontaneous support across the nation for such movement and neither could Naxals reach such prominence.

People are demanding accountability. They don't want to be ruled by the party with Majority. And they are not willing to wait for 5 years. Just like they pay taxes every year and like they get assessed every year in their work, they want the govt to be accountable. The saddest part is neither full time politicians nor media wallas could understand this. They can keep on harping back about Parliament without knowing these are tools meant to support and service public. These politicians consider themselves as ruling class. I for one will vote for military takeover as happened in Bangladesh and let them clean the system and bring order to the polity. The true reformer is PVNR, he tried to reform even the political class apart from the economy. Many of us believed ABV will carry those reforms and prepare India for the millennium. But nothing happened and nothing appear on the horizon. The heir apparent is not showing any hope and INC is becoming as corrupt as possible. Time to change the system.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Surya » 19 Aug 2011 17:52

Philip, I am quite tired of you regularly insulting Eunuchs, constables and other such harmless and poor marginalized folks.


+1 to that

Every one of them is better human being in every sense than this PM

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby SwamyG » 19 Aug 2011 17:58

Anybody have some good info about 'arvind kejriwal'? I have read the Wikipedia, so if you have ANY other pieces of information do post it here. The way he handled the 'press conference' on Ramlila Ground was fascinating - bright, charismatic ityadi.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby RamaY » 19 Aug 2011 18:01

People from as far places as west Godavari in Andra are travelling to Delhi to support AH movement. A friend of mine went to Tihar/Delhi to show support to AH. That is the inspiration they get from such nationalistic movements and the support they give to AH like leaders.

Brings us back to a 2 year old debate. India's problem is lack of strategic leadership, not population/illiteracy and so on. It is always "Yatha Raja Tatha Praja" not the other way around.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Kanson » 19 Aug 2011 18:01

Only other class which talks and acts in support of Corruption other than ruling political class is the business class. It is hard to believe. But take a poll around your locality. Those who say corruption can't be eradicated and pull out reasons for that are businessmen. I won't say everyone. But many fear their business might collapse if the current INC goes out of power.


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