The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 18:09

Kanson wrote:Only other class which talks and acts in support of Corruption other than ruling political class is the business class. It is hard to believe. But take a poll around your locality. Those who say corruption can't be eradicated and pull out reasons for that are businessmen. I won't say everyone. But many fear their business might collapse if the current INC goes out of power.


I agree.

I have come across people with money who take pride that they can bribe authorities for whatever they want.

A badge they wear with pride, as if it is a medal for an act of valour. :evil:

I love mocking them. :D

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby SwamyG » 19 Aug 2011 18:11

Arvind:
1. Indians blocked between North and South block :rotfl:
2. We need individual reform where people would willing stop giving and accepting bribes; but we cannot wait till that reform happens. Meanwhile we need strong regulations.
3. What is wrong, in a democracy, if the Government is scared of its citizens?

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Pranay » 19 Aug 2011 19:00

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 660680.cms

This will be interesting... another threshold has been established.

Anna Hazare on Friday launched his protest fast at the historic Ramlila Maidan giving indications that it will be a prolonged one when he declared that he will not quit the venue till the Jan Lokpal Bill is brought.

"We will not leave this ground till the Jan Lokpal Bill is brought," he declared from Ramlila Maidan, the venue of his campaign, after he came out of Tihar Jail and made a three- hour drive from the prison where he spent three nights.

On the fourth day of his fast, the 73-year-old Gandhian looked totally fit when he ran a short distance in Rajghat to escape from rain though he had lost three kg of weight since Tuesday. He came out of the jail this morning after reaching an agreement with government for holding his hunger strike for 15 days.


"There was a revolution in 1942 because of which the British had to quit India. But the loot and rowdyism have not stopped. That is why the second freedom struggle has begun.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Pranay » 19 Aug 2011 19:11

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14585214

Thousands of supporters braved rain at the packed Ram Lila ground to greet Mr Hazare and they showered him with rose petals.

But what happens next? There are unverified reports that the government is trying hard to reach a compromise with Mr Hazare, who insists that his version of the anti-corruption bill has to be placed before parliament.

Both sides need to reach common ground and save face. It is unclear how the government proposes to get Mr Hazare's bill into parliament, when its own bill - incorporating many of Mr Hazare's suggestions - is already being examined by a standing committee.

How quickly Mr Hazare calls off his fast - and saves the government further embarrassment - will depend on how fast a deal is worked out between the two sides.

"The youth of this country has awoken, so a great future for this country is not far off," Mr Hazare told his supporters.

"The traitors who have robbed this country will no longer be tolerated."

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby sanjeevpunj » 19 Aug 2011 19:12

I have been glued to AAJ TAK since August 16th, and from where I am, it seems to be a major change happening in the mindset of Indians. If the change enters the minds, it will express itself to fruition, irrespective of when the bill is eventually passed. Those who were earlier not able to voice their resent against corruption are also finding an expression today.It is a slow painful process nevertheless. The objective is to get the AH Team's version of Lok Pal cleared in the parliament, and then implemented. All the way AH Team will become a core advisory committee once the bill is implemented. How the government deals with this tide of masses is to be seen, and perhaps not just India, the whole world is watching what India will do to resolve the impasse.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Pranay » 19 Aug 2011 19:17

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/world ... EFC230A26E

Anna Hazare has emerged as the unlikely face of an impassioned people’s movement in India, a public outpouring that has coalesced around fighting corruption.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 19:20

@swamyG

former mentors watch from the sidelines with increasing horror :shock: .

Kejriwal has been tutored for years by Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS) leader Aruna Roy, former civil servant and activist Harsh Mandar, his associate Shekhar Singh and fellow Magsaysay award-winner Sandip Pande. What they had not expected was his metamorphosis from an earnest activist to the conqueror of the big city.

...


Now some of the mentors call Kejriwal a rightist.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Pranay » 19 Aug 2011 19:28

Reproducing the following from the Bhimsen Joshi Fb page...

So here is my take- When you take out intelligence (i) out of present Gandhi dynasty it Gandh Dynasty courtesy Sonia. Mahatma Gandhi told congress to remove I (aham) from Party and serve people. Indira started with adding I (congress I) and sonia making I into Italian (read mafia)

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Pranay » 19 Aug 2011 19:34

Anyone in Auckland, NZ...

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=189412454457123

India is going through a second revolution , WE NEED INDIANS in New Zealand to support the cause.

Supporting Anna Hazare..we will have candle light peace March to show solidarity with Jan Lokpal Bill.

Bring friends , Poster whatever you think that will help the cause.

Permission will be taken from Auckland city council and we will update this page for time and Venue.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rahulm » 19 Aug 2011 19:35

"The traitors who have robbed this country will no longer be tolerated."


Well said. Corruption should be similar to treason with the same penalty. For people on either side of the transaction.

As a principle it is said, the penalty should fit the crime .

This is not enough. In addition to being calibrated to the crime punishment should also leave no option for most except quick and enduring behaviour change. (E.g A speeding fine is Rs. 1000. Fits the crime but does not encourage behaviour change for many persons driving a 5 lakh+ car. Rs. 1000 + loss of licence for say 3 months for a second or third offence with a re-test and huge penalty licence re-issue fee will very quickly get the speeding Schumacher wannabe yahoos in line. For drink driving offences, in addition to all of the previous, throw in a weeks community service in the early AM municpal garbage collection truck. That will fix the drunk wannabe Shumacher speeding yahoos).
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby saip » 19 Aug 2011 19:37

Thirty-six doctors monitoring Anna's health round the clock

http://www.samachar.com/Thirtysix-docto ... abghf.html

Really? Do you really need THIRTY SIX doctors to monitor ONE person? Dont they have anything better to do, say treating the common man for free?

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 19:40

Mr Nariman advises PM and Parliamentarians:

Neither judiciary nor parliament is supreme, it constitution that is supreme and the opening words of constitution

WE THE PEOPLE...

Mr Prime Minister, Listen to people's voice. They are only Supreme!



Great!!!

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Aug 2011 19:47

Anna bhaiya has suddenly gone from being reasonable 'consider our JLP bill draft as an input to the one tabled in parliament' to being intransigent 'I'll fast till govt passes my draft of lokpal'. All in 2 days only. Isn't that cute? Not. Ominous more like it if all it takes to bring Dilli sarkar to a standstill is a few 1000 people in Ramlila grounds and a few dozen hrs of rented airtime on prime tv news channels only...

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 19:49

merlin wrote:Ok, let's wait and watch then to see who is right.


Merlin Sir,

You are right. :D

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajsunder » 19 Aug 2011 19:51

OT, but still could not find a proper thread other than this one to post this news item

BTW this one was on main page just for few minutes before it was taken off, and i had to go through my history to track this URL.

Centre sitting on list of 600 Indians with Swiss accounts
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/centre-sitting-on-list-of-600-indians-with-swiss-accounts/20110819.htm
..................
According to a reliable source in the government, the finance ministry has received over 600 names of Indians who have accounts in HSBC Bank's Switzerland branch, from the government of France.
Now look at the reason the govt gives for not disclosing these names to open public, unlike last time with Germany may be this time they cannot hide under the tax treaty
Now the Indian government is sitting on those names, giving excuses like some of those names may be of Indians who have legitimate bank accounts, said a senior politician in the government during an off-the-record conversation with rediff.com.


.....................

The bank had initially claimed that less than ten clients had been affected by the incident but later said that Herve Falciani, a former computer specialist with the bank, has taken away the secret data and handed it over to the French government.

Since then, various affluent customers of HSBC have been worried. At that time, the bank had said that nearly 15,000 bank accounts, whose details have been stolen, were operated before October 2006.

Nearly 9,000 accounts, which were closed down long ago, were also affected. It's believed that India got the names its account holders from the list of Falciani.

The United Progressive Alliance government has not informed the people, so far, about the details of Swiss account holders it has received from France.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rahulm » 19 Aug 2011 19:53

Salman K's comments are disgusting. He is the law minister of the elected government of the Republic of India and he is talking about open goonda girdi! i.e. complete disregard for the law. That too on a public channel. Arrogance thy name is SK

In other words, the Hon. Law minister has just issued a open threat to the people of India via a public TV channel. This cannot be a government. It has to be a monarchy on the lines of Marie Antoinette.

What justice and law reform should one expect from such a person? None.

This threat must be taken seriously. Can he be arrested on some IPC section for threatening the people of India?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby sanjeevpunj » 19 Aug 2011 19:55

Found an interesting page that shows both sides (AH and Govt) of the Lokpal Bill issue.
http://i.imgur.com/mXmsg.jpg

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby fanne » 19 Aug 2011 19:59

It is right to be skeptical to what AH's version of the bill, it is OK to question his methods. It is definitely right to doubt most (not all) of the people who are supposedly supporting him (Harsh Mander et all). But then this moment is not about AH or the bill, it is about the Janta that a clown prince or uncle scam is taking for granted.
Here is the link to Dhinker's poem - Sighasan khali karo ki janta aati hai (leave the throne as the the masses have come). Enjoy. A telling line is -Janta ki roke Rah Samy me tab kaha, Wah jidhar chahti Kaal udhar hi mudta hai (The time does not have the will to stop the masses, the way the masses goes, history goes with it)

http://www.geeta-kavita.com/hindi_sahitya.asp?id=415

Thanks,
Ravi

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby sanjeevpunj » 19 Aug 2011 20:02

^^^^Used to read Dinkar's poems in school! Nice recall.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Aug 2011 20:04


Interesting that Lok Satta is not mentioned in the list.

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 20:09

Hari Seldon wrote:Anna bhaiya has suddenly gone from being reasonable 'consider our JLP bill draft as an input to the one tabled in parliament' to being intransigent 'I'll fast till govt passes my draft of lokpal'. All in 2 days only. Isn't that cute? Not. Ominous more like it if all it takes to bring Dilli sarkar to a standstill is a few 1000 people in Ramlila grounds and a few dozen hrs of rented airtime on prime tv news channels only...


Why not sir-ji...

If unconstitutional NAC can advise a PM who is not a member of Parliament, and Pariliament makes legisltions on the advice of NAC (unconstitutional) what is wrong AH is doing? At least he has mustered public support, especially AH is giving voice to Janata Janardarn - we the people!!!

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rahulm » 19 Aug 2011 20:11

Its not just a few 1000 people and airtime. What about the 60+ years of mis-governance humiliating ordinary Indian's into undignified citizens to beg, grovel, plead, cajole and finally pay for what are essentially their rights? While the cabal eats cake the ration shops meant for the poor are closed with the goods being sold in the black market.

This movement is a convergence due to many historical factors. Whether it results in substantial meaningful outcomes time will tell.At best, it will. If it does not, it will be good if serves a a stepping stone to an every larger movement. The worst will be if it fizzles out and hopefully, this will not be the case.

Always fear the person who has nothing to loose or least is not afraid to do so and has the courage of his/her convictions. Such people usually either become Saints, terrorists or social transformation revolutionaries.

Fixing demand will fix some of problems. (The mobile telephony example provided earlier)

Fixing processes & procedures will fix others. E.g I had never received re-funds from the Indian Railways. IRCTC online system changed all that. The IR human interface was completely eliminated with the computer system taking care of the business rules. Refunds. no problem.

Finally, some services will always be provided by the government at least for the foreseeable future. Police, RTO, Courts. These are the ones that need major fixing. The RTI does provide a reasonable mechanism at the householder level for Water, Sewerage, electricity although it is by no means enough.

But how does one deal with the police station who refuses to file an FIR?Or the legal system which accepts bribes and the person who tries to bribe his way out? These services will always be provided by the government.

Where is RMji these days?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Aug 2011 20:14

Friends, let us avoid false arguments like, AH is not going to eradicate corruption. I mean, there will never be a person who will miraculously change everything instantly and we can go back to our lives. AH gives hope because he showed that all of India can be mobilized for the common good.

It is not so much about AH or his group or their flaws but about our beloved nation which it is the people.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Arjunn » 19 Aug 2011 20:16

I have been watching the Jan Lokpal bill movement by India Against Corruption led by Anna Hazareji with deep interest and the depth of feeling that is running through the country against the corrupt is bringing out some interesting facts. Firstly, I made a point of watching the English language TV news channel coverage, that I have access to, of this event and what exactly the different media houses were portraying. The first day was interesting in that both NDTV and CNN-IBN were trying their best to trivialize the mass movement and their reporters were repeatedly making statements to the effect that this was limited to the metro cities only and that people were skeptical about the Jan Lokpal bill and there were discussion panels that were so anti-Anna and pro-government that it was almost nauseating to watch. Gradually, the tone changed and one could almost see the reluctance with which they were forced to admit that this was indeed a mass movement. With regard to NDTV it is not surprising since their pro-UPA tilt is well known with a political fixer like Barkha Dutt masquerading as a journalist there and still posing as one in spite of being exposed for what she is. Even though Rajdeep Sardesai, CNN-IBN chief editor, is a known pro-establishment man, one expected better coverage from them and it was sadly lacking with them and they were making it a point of running only negative tweets and SMS'es on the screen exclusively when Annaji or one of his team members was on view; thus disconcerting the viewer and also derogatory headlines trivializing the movement such as "Anna's leela in ramleela" and other similar ones. It is Times Now, which is often criticized for being tabloid oriented, that is reporting full unbiased coverage of the movement as it is unfolding and it was heartening to see that they had not succumbed to government pressure.

The joke here is that the BJP wants to take advantage of the situation and embarrass the UPA but will not support the Jan Lokpal bill because the corrupt there realize that they will not be able to line their pockets if they come to power with an active Lokpal in place.

Now we see Varun Gandhi entering the picture and he has stated openly on Times Now that he is going to present the Jan Lokpal bill in the Lok Sabha and has asked the speaker for permission, but the BJP spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy the other day when pointed out that Varun Gandhi wanted to table the bill, stated there was no plan for anybody from the BJP to table the bill.

We are seeing a revolution brewing and it is uniting the common man and it is also exposing the true nature of some of our media houses and where their priorities lie.

We need to stand united behind Annaji and his team to ensure that the Jan Lokpal bill gets passed by our reluctant politicians.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 20:21

Murugan wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Anna bhaiya has suddenly gone from being reasonable 'consider our JLP bill draft as an input to the one tabled in parliament' to being intransigent 'I'll fast till govt passes my draft of lokpal'. All in 2 days only. Isn't that cute? Not. Ominous more like it if all it takes to bring Dilli sarkar to a standstill is a few 1000 people in Ramlila grounds and a few dozen hrs of rented airtime on prime tv news channels only...


Why not sir-ji...

If unconstitutional NAC can advise a PM who is not a member of Parliament, and Pariliament makes legisltions on the advice of NAC (unconstitutional) what is wrong AH is doing? At least he has mustered public support, especially AH is giving voice to Janata Janardarn - we the people!!!


And how can govt run away when they accepted Civil Society as a party in the whole debate?

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 20:25

Now we see Varun Gandhi entering the picture and he has stated openly on Times Now that he is going to present the Jan Lokpal bill in the Lok Sabha and has asked the speaker for permission, but the BJP spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy the other day when pointed out that Varun Gandhi wanted to table the bill, stated there was no plan for anybody from the BJP to table the bill.


The only Privat Member Bill passed since 1970 is Parliamentarians' Salary Hike Bill. All other bills including bills pertaining to Judiciary reforms, police reforms, intelligence agency's refor have not even brought to table for discussion. Our elected representatives have rejected it outright! I wish Varun Gandhi All the Best - this time he may succeed as we the people are behind Jan Lokpal!

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Murugan » 19 Aug 2011 20:29

Marten wrote:Whoever has ideas for changing Govt procedures to eliminate corruption at the lowest level must write to Vidyashankar, Principal Secy E-Governance.

Would like for every state to implement a straight-forward non-bailable arrest policy for folks asking for a bribe. If they set up a simple call center that could record details of a bribe requested by a Govt. employee, the fear value alone would reduce occurrence by at least 10% (of course, "token" arrests would need to be made more often). Then again, we need to start with whichever agency most citizens come in touch with - start with the police system, the RTOs, the Municipal corporations, and see how much resistance the system offers to such change. If there are even 20% converts to the anti-corruption drive, people might actually start threatening such folks with action. I'd be happy to see even that symbolic call line in place under the auspices of the Lok Pal.

Oh, and how does any bill address fast laning requests by citizens themselves?


Ms Bedi was asking for the same at Ramlila maidan this evening - Ask for 101 to deal with corrupt people/bureaucrats and politicians in line with 100 for Police and other numbers for fire brigade and 108 for medical emergency.

People do not exactly know whether there is any functioning anti-corruption agency in state or their city. And even if they have, whether they empowere to tackle corrupt people

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 20:30

Pranay wrote:Reproducing the following from the Bhimsen Joshi Fb page...

So here is my take- When you take out intelligence (i) out of present Gandhi dynasty it Gandh Dynasty courtesy Sonia. Mahatma Gandhi told congress to remove I (aham) from Party and serve people. Indira started with adding I (congress I) and sonia making I into Italian (read mafia)


:rotfl:

Justice Hegde has challanged the govt assertion on supremacy

"Can a law made by Parliament be challenged in court or not? It can be challenged and it can be declared as unconstitutional by Supreme Court or even by a high court. Does it mean then that Parliament is supreme? It's not", Hegde said.

He said the government should understand that Constitution is drafted by Constituent Assembly but it's the people of India who have accepted it. First few lines of preamble of the Constitution starts with "..we the people of India.....".

"It (Constitution) is not given by a politician. Under the Constitution, we have accepted'... this Parliament, Legislature, Executive and Judiciary is created. Therefore, who is the creator of these institutions? It's the people. Therefore, ultimately, in the true sense of the word, it's the people who are supreme, not anybody else", he said.


This is the gem:
Asked if the nationwide campaign is "going beyond corruption" and that people are giving vent to their anger to all kinds of issues, he said, "It happens. If you allow protest to go on, then it goes beyond the original object. Therefore, the government should take note of it".

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Surya » 19 Aug 2011 20:38

I have a question - how much change also requires us to move away from this westminster model to something more like the French model.

Would MMS be doing this tamasha or anyone if they had to be directly elected and anot rely on party hacks and kingmakers??

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rahulm » 19 Aug 2011 20:46

And outsource the "100" call centre outside India (to prevent babu interference) with audio recordings of calls with transcripts available online with a reference number. Saves people from filing RTI applications and possibly getting murdered :-(

It's ironic and beyond belief that murdered RTI activist Shehla Masood's father feels helpless with no hope of getting justice from the JBP (Judge-Babu-Pandu) trio because he has no connections while I recoil in horror in the knowledge that a very senior police public servant in India is personally following up on a recently lost Iphunwa because the phone owner knows him. :cry:

The system is not even one sided. It has become totally lop sided in favour of connections and personal favours.

The corrupt-criminal nexus are focused and determined to protect their turf and interests at all costs including brazen murder. They are willing to and through public executions (that is what it should be called) of RTI activists send their messages to the common person not to mess with them.

Wish the common person showed their determination to similarly protect their interests - through legal means not vigilante justice. With the existing (to use an RM'ism) NBJP modus-opernadi & nexus there is just no way to do it at a scale that will brown the dhotis of the NBJP's.

However flawed it may be, I think for the 1st time since independence, AH offers common people that hope and rallying point for the possibility of change. With AH, they are willing to take the punt rather than sit and do nothing.

It's not only about the economy stupid! :-) Currently we are a booming economy with frankly poor governance. A scorching 8-9% growth is not the be all and end all though it is very important and should be a priority. I don't know of any historical or contemporary (last 50 years) example where a country has continued to prosper economically over a period of time without good governance. Is the expectation that we will buck this trend?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 20:53

Congress: Anna's will destroy democracy. We are elected Blah Blah.... We are the only one right!

Threat to democracy is from UPA II: Balbir Punj

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby vijayk » 19 Aug 2011 20:58

http://expressbuzz.com/prabhuchawla/win ... 03601.html

Winds of change in BJP a warning for leadership

If leaders fail to lead, their followers will take over the leadership and lead instead. This is what is precisely taking place in the faction-ridden Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). Last week, when the 140-member-strong BJP Parliamentary Party met to decide its conduct and stand for the current session of Parliament, the deliberations reflected the sudden winds of change that shook the entire leadership. For the first time in decades, people sitting in the audience and not those occupying the dais, dictated the tone and tenor of the dialogue. As usual, the platform was occupied by the BJP’s Gang of Four-L K Advani, Chairman of the Parliamentary party; Sushma Swaraj, Arun Jaitley ( leaders of the Opposition) and party president Nitin Gadkari. Advani, Swaraj and Jaitley spelt out the agenda—let us assert ourselves in the House but also let Parliament function normally. Their logic was the party anyway had enough ammunition to nail the Government on issues like the CAG report on CWG. They were also of the opinion that the BJP should stick to issues and refrain from targeting individuals. But the young parliamentarians were in no mood to give up. They wanted their leaders to refrain from striking a peace deal with the Government. A large number of them were taken aback at the soft attitude of the BJP leadership, particularly after former Karnataka chief minister B S Yeddyuarappa resigned. They were expecting the party to take the moral high ground and go after Chief Minister Sheila


None other than the fiery, former cricketer Navjot Sidhu led the charge of the young brigade. He not only opposed BJP-UPA detente but also pleaded for a powerful offensive against the Government. He left no one in doubt that the cadres were unhappy with the party’s half-hearted attack on the administration. Sidhu wasn’t alone in this fight. Even party spokesperson Shahnawaz Hussain and Gujarat state in-charge Balbir Punj strongly supported his demand to go for the jugular. All were in favour of disrupting parliamentary proceedings and demanding Sheila Dikshit’s resignation. They didn’t want the Prime Minister and Sonia Gandhi to be spared either during the debate. It was this assertive, defiant mood of its young MPs that forced the party to disrupt the House and seek Dikshit’s ouster.


For the past few months, a sizeable number of young BJP MPs have been talking about the party’s failure to nail the Government on various issues. Most of them feel the BJP, by its failure to bring other Opposition parties together, has lost the chance to demolish the UPA’s political stability. With scam after scam tumbling out of the Government’s cupboard, a credible Opposition could have brought the weak UPA government to its knees. The MPs are particularly annoyed with the leadership for bailing out the Government on the price rise and various other issues in Parliament. Contrary to their expectations, the party and the Government colluded to accept an amended draft of the resolution censuring the Government. Though it was a BJP-sponsored resolution, the party didn’t get the credit.


The emergence of a vocal and assertive voice against the party’s elite signals the democratisation of the organisation that has been hijacked by non-elected individuals. Those who have a stake in its future have decided to take up issues that concern their political core constituency and voters. For them, a visible, credible and effective fight against the Congress appears to be the only weapon to win the election. Recent opinion polls have exposed the real and imagined support of all the national leaders.


SOni'a trick of using NDTV, CNN/IBN, Tehelka, NGOs, Leftists succeeded in making the BJP top leaders a bunch of pussies. They are afraid that Press will start calling them right wing, yindoo nationalists are always afraid to be aggressive. Look at recent Pune police firing. BJP should have killed the unholy alliance of CON party and NCP. Instead, they let it go.

praksam
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby praksam » 19 Aug 2011 21:05

swapan das bitch slapping mani aiyer.worth watching

http://www.ndtv.com/video/live/channel/ndtv24x7

SBajwa
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby SBajwa » 19 Aug 2011 21:05

To really stop corruption following is required

1. Teach the children early in school about corruption and basic ethics.
2. Teach the masses through print, electronic and other media

Here is an old US commercial about telling people to stop littering., something along the same lines for corruption.


3. Person giving the bribe should not be punished if he/she earns less than 5,000 per month. Person accepting the bribe (police,judge should be terminated and put behind bars) needs to be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted.

4. Put cameras in all civil service offices (police station, Tehsildar, Commissioner, Patwari, etc). This evidence should be accepted as prime facie. A whole team needs to be in charge of this evidence gathering and maintaining.

rajanb
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 21:14

"we the people of india..." are supreme!"

A Times Now viewer as part of the panel right now.

The point he made was very powerful.

Our elected representative does not inform us about what he does in Parliament.

No Govt. (Party) which has been in power since the first introduction of Lokpal bill has a valid explaination why they failed to get it passed.

Nowhere has any party used the protection of the individual as an election plank.

And people don't want to hear about processes, procedures and institutions which don't protect a citizen from the scourge of corruption.

As an aside: CJ, you are a cool guy. Glad to see you excited. :D

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 21:17

SBajwa +++

The citizens of India should be educated about their rights, and equally, their responsibilities. Just schools and literacy is not sufficient.

Muppalla
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby Muppalla » 19 Aug 2011 21:18

Image

Here is the leadership of India's "arab spring"

rajanb
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby rajanb » 19 Aug 2011 21:20

Muppalla wrote:Image

Here is the leadership of India's "arab spring"


"JAI HO"

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Aug 2011 21:26

rajanb wrote:As an aside: CJ, you are a cool guy. Glad to see you excited. :D


rajanb ji,

I have not watched TV for more than a decade. Past 3-4 days I am glued to it like an owl. IMO Chidu, kapil Sibal, Ambika Soni, manish tiwari , renuka chowdhry, rahul gandhi, Sonia Gandhi should be put in this seasons Big Boss series (reality show) and Anna hazare should be introduced into the house in sly. It will be Mind Blowing :rotfl:

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Postby vijayk » 19 Aug 2011 21:27

SBajwa wrote:To really stop corruption following is required

1. Teach the children early in school about corruption and basic ethics.
2. Teach the masses through print, electronic and other media

Here is an old US commercial about telling people to stop littering., something along the same lines for corruption.


3. Person giving the bribe should not be punished if he/she earns less than 5,000 per month. Person accepting the bribe (police,judge should be terminated and put behind bars) needs to be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted.

4. Put cameras in all civil service offices (police station, Tehsildar, Commissioner, Patwari, etc). This evidence should be accepted as prime facie. A whole team needs to be in charge of this evidence gathering and maintaining.


5. Put a time limit for every Govt. application that every application needs to be approved or rejected with a cause in a specific time (ETA). This way, the Govt. can't sit on it for ever. If a person refuses to bribe, the max wait is for that specific time. If the applications are rejected without proper cause, the Govt. official should be held responsible and refused any increments or promotions.


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