The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

[sum]

'Sad to see 'saffron' presence in Ramdev's agitation' : Church

A top Christian priest expressed apprehensions that Baba Ramdev's anti-corruption campaign has been hijacked by the "saffron brigade".

At the same time, he condemned the police action on the “hapless people” at Ramlila maidan, saying “it was not at all fair for the police to use violent means on the innocent unarmed masses to disperse them in the middle of the night.”

Vincent M Concessao, archbishop of Delhi Arch Diocese, said he was “sad to see and hear Sadhvi Ritmbara, an accused in the Babri Masjid demolition and a known anti-minorities baiter” sharing the dais with Ramdev.

“One also saw a large number of saffron clad men adorning the dais, raising questions in our minds whether it was a national movement or political and/or a religious movement,” he said in a statement.

Saffron = religious/bigoted/communal.

[joshvajohn]

I do have questions about EVMs. They can be preprogrammed with votes and so on! Only the programming persons would know if they are done in secret. Whatever the people vote will be entered but the result will be interesting if it is programmed according to the election commission's interest and alliances. there should be transparency which is possible only by paper vote! there should be a separate thread to discuss EVMs.

I wish to highlight how Anthony put Govt attitude about the transparency of the government nicely!

Antony said the transition was facing “problems” as “India is not ready. Indian politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen, armed forces and all those who are holding key positions are not ready for this transition. That is why there are problems in this transition.” “But that is also part of Indian democracy. But after a few years they will. The transition will go on,” he said.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/is-in ... er/800926/

Somehow Congress wants to skip being the "between" those whose money is kept abroad, those politicians who gets regular money and those who are taking forward this revolution of transparency. It is easier to take side of the money folks rather than the civil society. Thus in a way Congress govt becomes power to stop or resist any radical transparency in Governance. Their transparency in the parliament is to target and focus on one public corrupted victim in their case it is DMK and Co at this stage while others are skipped or told keep safe.

[Arjun]

'Sad to see 'saffron' presence in Ramdev's agitation' : Church

So the gloves are off from the Church side, huh ?

The Church in India has been blatantly explicit in its own political views on several occasions, so this is accusation is phenomenally hypocritical. And the Archbishop obviously does not see the hypocrisy in the INC giving space to well-known Hindu baiters like John Dayal while he accuses Ramdev of the same.

[UBanerjee]

Can you show me some statistics which says the voting percentage of IT-Vity crowd in Bengaluru? I am talking about folks who have come from other states, and now pretty much settled down in Bengaluru. To reiterate my point. Anna Hazare was supported by youngsters including IT-Vity folks. Good. There are umpteen issues in Bengaluru itself. Can we expect the same enthusiasm shown here? But for fixing issues at Bengaluru, it may involve visiting politicians, various government offices and putting pressure on them.

There is a saying, "think globally, act locally". In India's case we may amend that to "think of all India, act locally". That is why the AH/BRD movements are positive developments but they are not enough. They are depending on star power and people's generic frustration with corruption. The whole Swiss money being the focus proves this. It's the sort of easy thing to do, very dramatic, we all hate people stashing billions in Swiss vaults and we want it back. Sure. Problem is once it comes back, it's coming back to the same system whence it was taken out!

So we need this activism on the absolute local level. There is too much of a "life is like this onlee" attitude at the local levels among these educated types especially (like us, frankly), who have the capacity and financial freedom to effect change. Cleaning up the streets, provision of local waste disposal, local water treatment, local electricity, local transport, and local primary education- these are the most critical elements, not the hypothetical return of Rs. X lakh crore which will make everyone in India rich again. There is another idea applicable here of "broken windows". A lot of the petty corruption and lawlessness in India results from the system operating so run-down and "chalta hai" in all aspects.

The provision of good governance from the bottom shakes the systems up at the very top. e.g. demanding as an absolute need the provision of cleaner water will start forcing that sector to be more efficient and so on. The current lassez-faire attitude is what allows the situation to coast onwards; there is no critical mass of people who care enough. Well so far, anyway.

[somnath]

The sheer inconsistency of the BR phenomenon on anything barring the contiunued focus on the principal himself unravels in a min-by-min commentary...Love for the media is a double-edged sword - it gives publicity, but it also demands continuous soundbytes...

Seems that the good baba now wants to raise a sena to counter the police!
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sena- ... ev/800928/

Now if someone were to ask how a vigilante army is useful in the "war on black money", it would only be an example of one's "commi-ness", isnt it?

[sugriva]

^^^^ The BR phenomenon was never about corruption in the first place. It was always a tactic to subvert and pressurize a democratically elected government and spread anarchy. In short, some people were/are looking at a short cut route to power that doesn't involve the peskiness of having to get elected once in every five years. They go by various names, "bhumiputras", "sons of the soil" etc. Not for them sir, the toil of standing for elections, campaigning amongst the electorate, explaining what you stand for to the people and finally being subjected to the test by the voters. The only piskological explanation I can find for their behaviour is that they hate people and have a misplaced sense of superiority, one which translates in action to "I am such and such and how dare somebody judge me". In short people who are unable to take feedback. Oh BTW they have the chutzpah to call other posters as "elitists" or whatever that term is supposed to mean. Now go figure who are the "elitists" in this "debate".

[Sanku]

Now if someone were to ask how a vigilante army is useful in the "war on black money", it would only be an example of one's "commi-ness", isnt it?

Yes it would be because the Sena is not for black money, it is for self protection from goons of black money.

Normal non-commie types would understand this without explanation and the commie types will play their broken record despite the writing on the wall.

[Sanku]

^^^^ The BR phenomenon was never about corruption in the first place.

Such silly transparent attacks are only to be expected from the class of those who stand to lose with new laws in place.

[Sanku]

I formally anoint him Sant Antony!

He has been already? No matter once more.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india ... ony-110909

India going through 'transparency revolution': Antony

New Delhi: As the government tries to fight the perception that it is embedded with chronic corruption, Defence Minister AK Antony said today that the country is "passing through a revolution...a transparency revolution."

Praising the Right to Information Act, which was introduced by the government a few years ago, Mr Antony said, "The walls of secrecy are crumbling...in every field...whether it is politics...or administration...judiciary...business. The trend's started...the movement's started...you can't stop it mid-way."

He also seemed to refer to the growing confrontation between civil society activists and the government over how to introduce a sharp law to check corruption.

"All those who are in key positions in India...they are still not ready for this transition...that is why there have been some problems...but this is another phase of Indian democracy," the

[Manishw]

^^^^ The BR phenomenon was never about corruption in the first place.

Back up your gibberish.

[Manishw]

I also have a big Q about the so-called charity empires of gurus and godmen,who run empires worth thousands of crores ,happily enjoying taxfree status,while other institutions and honest Indians have to shell out to the IT dept.

Philip I understand where u are coming from but add to the list of gurus and godmen, madrassas, maulanas, ulemas etc., churches, evangelical activity, father's etc., Ngo's, Likes of hurriyat and then maybe a dozen others and that would be fair.

[rsingh]

^^^^ The BR phenomenon was never about corruption in the first place. It was always a tactic to subvert and pressurize a democratically elected government and spread anarchy. In short, some people were/are looking at a short cut route to power that doesn't involve the peskiness of having to get elected once in every five years. They go by various names, "bhumiputras", "sons of the soil" etc. Not for them sir, the toil of standing for elections, campaigning amongst the electorate, explaining what you stand for to the people and finally being subjected to the test by the voters. The only piskological explanation I can find for their behaviour is that they hate people and have a misplaced sense of superiority, one which translates in action to "I am such and such and how dare somebody judge me". In short people who are unable to take feedback. Oh BTW they have the chutzpah to call other posters as "elitists" or whatever that term is supposed to mean. Now go figure who are the "elitists" in this "debate".

Welcome to the stupid/Lahorilogic/ snakeoil sellers league. Be ready for shraap from Babas Chelas

[shaardula]

i'm a normal non-commie, i want to understand why ramdev wants a militia.

[Nesoj]

Ramdev's health deteriorates; doctors advise him to break fast

HARIDWAR: Yoga guru Baba Ramdev's health has started deteriorating as his fast for tougher anti-graft laws and bringing back black money from foreign nations, entered fifth day here on Wednesday.

Doctors attending to the yoga guru have advised liquid intake and requested him to end his fast soon.

What sort of yogic guru is he ??? Can't fast for more than a couple of days without risking his life ???

On another note ......

Ramdev threatens govt, will raise armed force
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Ramdev-th ... 07083.aspx
.... Ramdev, whose popularity stems from his daily yoga shows on television, called for men and women to join his "army".
"They must be dedicated, ready to make the ultimate sacrifice," he said. "They will be given arms training. We will build an army of 11,000 men and women."

Similar to the 'Black Cat' commando protection force for politicians, will we be soon seeing the Baba's 'Black Sheep' ????

[Manishw]

What sort of yogic guru is he ??? Can't fast for more than a couple of days without risking his life ???

A normal person would have collapsed within 12 hours under the stress he seems to be in.Would like to see Digvijay singh in the same position.

[Manishw]

We will build an army of 11,000 men and women.

Stop and throttle all means of peaceful protest and see the tamasha

[rsingh]

BTW one question to every Rakshak

You have Swiss visa
you earn good money
you have property in India
You are told that even as visitors you can open an account in Bank

Would you not open an acc ?

[AjayKK]

^ rsingh sahab, you seem to have taken things personally, why are you confusing a visitor or tourist who wants to open an account with a person who deliberately wishes to stack his ill-gotten wealth in the Swiss bank?

In short, some people were/are looking at a short cut route to power that doesn't involve the peskiness of having to get elected once in every five years. They go by various names, "bhumiputras", "sons of the soil" etc. Not for them sir, the toil of standing for elections, campaigning amongst the electorate, explaining what you stand for to the people and finally being subjected to the test by the voters.

Ah, the diversion. "Bhumiputras", "sons of the soil" do stand for elections and Baba Ramdev does have a party waiting to be tested. However, the above condition certainly does not prevents the selected un-elected from the Rajya Sabha to lead a coalition. Oh no sir, how could that matter, for their electile dysfunction is masked by a plethora of degrees and gasp...an elite posting on the resume! Wah wah, how could a non-elite iskool, non-elite degree holder hope to crash into the corridors of power? As the article below states, the media and our elite iskoolists suffer a bias, none of which is hidden from those who can see through it...

Reportage of eviction points to growing urban-rural divide - Seema Kamdar

This time, though, the media has outdone itself. The Baba Ramdev “eviction” episode has been reported by the print media in the mildest of terms with some national dailies even shying from mentioning some critical facts of the eviction such as the fact that the crowd was lathi-charged. The tenor of reportage has been not just restrained but subdued.
Article continues below the advertisement...

Consider the facts: the state machinery swoops down on an open maidan where tens of thousands of men, women and children are peacefully asleep at night, starts dragging them out, and lathi-charges them. They wake up terrified and flee, leaving behind their belongings, mats and footwear. Some are badly wounded and find themselves hauled to hospital. Their leader gets hijacked and is allegedly manhandled.

Is this how we define “eviction”? All that this lot of protesters were doing, whether you are with them or not, is protesting in what they believe to be a genuine national cause. One shudders to think what would have happened had they pointed fingers at any Congress leaders in particular.

Yet, few leading newspapers have expressed any words of condemnation, let alone any measure of editorial outrage. The English media in particular has been rather snooty about the whole episode, making it a point to look down on Ramdev’s antics for reasons that I suspect have nothing to do with the merit of the story.

Sure, he is ad hoc and appears to have reinvented the fast as a weapon too soon after Anna Hazare’s triumph. His motives may be suspect and one may dispute his cause and means as well. But the real problem lies elsewhere.

The Baba Ramdev episode has brought out the urban-rural gulf in sharp relief. Look at the profile of the protesters: most were farmers — the community of Indians that never gets its fair share of attention — and/or followers of the baba, most of whom are primarily northern, and rural, not quite in the same league as the urban IT generation that graced Anna Hazare’s causes.

The third factor that works against Ramdev in the publicity sweepstakes is his religious garb. He wears saffron and that alone is reason enough to brush him off the pages. Sure, his ill-thought invitation to Sadhvi Rithambara to share the dais could, and should, be condemned, but what exactly is the baba’s crime in being overtly Hindu, preaching yoga, and not speaking English?

Condemn him all you like, but give him his fundamental rights.
I am not despairing any more. I am simply horrified.

Seems like the media is yet again on a high like Lakshmana's friend in the Ramayana and this time there is no Tara for a sobering influence either...

[Arjun]

i'm a normal non-commie, i want to understand why ramdev wants a militia.

The more I see of Ramdev, the more and more American he seems to me in his thinking !!

Firstly here is a guy who is a yoga guru - and yoga is the quintessential American rage now.

Then he becomes the Indian poster boy for successfully commercializing yoga - an entrepreneur par-extraordinaire in the American tradition.

Next he starts making statements from pure commercial motives - homosexuality is a disease that can be cured by yoga, therefore attend his camps. Again a classic American maneuver.

He then sets his sights higher and leads a political advocacy group on corruption. The US is known for its myriad advocacy groups that aim to pressure the government on anything from animal rights to gun control.

Finally he is now going for the holiest of holy American grails - a constitutional militia. See here for the American context: Constitutional Militia Movement. Hopefully this constitutional militia will not be anywhere similar to the infamous militias setup by Christian identity groups: Christian Identity

[Manishw]

i'm a normal non-commie, i want to understand why ramdev wants a militia.

Perhaps u will have a better understanding of things if u knew why Digvijay singh repeatedly kicked a journalist like an animal in congress quarters.

[rsingh]

^

rsingh sahab, you seem to have taken things personally, why are you confusing a visitor or tourist who wants to open an account with a person who deliberately wishes to stack his ill-gotten wealth in the Swiss bank?

Yes. But that was the point. Why a tourist would want to open an acc in swiss.................to use it at right moment.

[Pranav]

Chidambaram gave an interview stressing the importance of parliamentary democracy. He has a valid point.

Chidambaram himself was the beneficiary of a dubious EVM recount in 2009. As long as people are unwilling to raise the EVM issue, Chidambaram and Co have a right to rule in perpetuity.

The Lokpal and black money issues are secondary.

If Baba Ramdev has spent 10% of the time he spent on black money, addressing the EVM issue instead, things would be much different today.

Sometimes people have mental blocks which prevent them from identifying what the critical issues are.

[shaardula]

manish is india a banana republic then? you realize that the two will play this game and each will escalate and do you realize the fallout of this?

i think there is a tendency to equate anyone in khavi to rashtriya. its amazing that people here are equating ramdev to shri aurobindo and shri vivekananda. what was their depth and what is ramdev's? dont we need some sense of proportion or is it just enough to shout?

i'm not saying ramdev must be altruistic, i can live with a politically ambitious baba, but ramdev is an impulsive guy and very shallow and not the rakshak we hope for. he'll end up harming genuine rashtriya thinking.

there are nuances and differences, but india has been served well by non-populist leaders who have had vision - nehru, shastri, pvn, abv and even mms. thankfully indian leadership has been above demagoguery and taught much needed lessons which we people might not have learnt otherwise. not all lessons have been useful, but on an average we have benefited.

now it is another thing that the success of the past have gone into heads of the current elite and the leaders and they need to be re-educated.

[chaanakya]

What sort of yogic guru is he ??? Can't fast for more than a couple of days without risking his life ???

A normal person would have collapsed within 12 hours under the stress he seems to be in.Would like to see Digvijay singh in the same position.

80 hrs is the time after which life threatening symptoms would occur in a starving human body.
Nothing would happen to doggy as he is not human

[Dilbu]

If BR wants a militia to fight our security forces then what is the difference between him and maoists? Sorry I take back my support.

[Atri]

manish is india a banana republic then? you realize that the two will play this game and each will escalate and do you realize the fallout of this?

i think there is a tendency to equate anyone in khavi to rashtriya. its amazing that people here are equating ramdev to shri aurobindo and shri vivekananda. what was their depth and what is ramdev's? dont we need some sense of proportion or is it just enough to shout?

i'm not saying ramdev must be altruistic, i can live with a politically ambitious baba, but ramdev is an impulsive guy and very shallow and not the rakshak we hope for. he'll end up harming genuine rashtriya thinking.

there are nuances and differences, but india has been served well by non-populist leaders who have had vision - nehru, shastri, pvn, abv and even mms. thankfully indian leadership has been above demagoguery and taught much needed lessons which we people might not have learnt otherwise. not all lessons have been useful, but on an average we have benefited.

now it is another thing that the success of the past have gone into heads of the current elite and the leaders and they need to be re-educated.

BRD is merely pushing the GOI to accept anna's demands. Nothing dire will happen through him.. I think he will linger on for quite a while. No need to look too much into his statement about raising militia. it has been and will be overstated by the media probably out of context. Raising militia is as illegal and non-constitutional as police action on saturday night. the latter breeds the former and viceversa. Furthermore, selling out one's motherland is even bigger illegal deed.

@acharya

Do you think BRD has entered in the Shani Mahadasha ?

[brihaspati]

If BR wants a militia to fight our security forces then what is the difference between him and maoists? Sorry I take back my support.

This is what happens when people become "transparent" about what they want to do. They should take lessons from the Congress in transparency about saying or pretending something and doing something else - like sending out bigwigs (well midrange) to lure the Baba first and then send in the lathi-brigade at midnight.

Maybe he should become like the Maoists - then at least Digvijay will support him?

[Sanku]

People at least dont make statements about BR has done or not done for the country. He has already done a whole huge lot, including --

running yoga camps for Soliders in 2006 time frame when stress and fratricides were at all time high.

That had helped a lot ---

http://assamrifles.gov.in/yoga.aspx

Swami Ramdev commenced the camp, by expressing his gratitude for being invited for the Yoga Camp, the first main function of the celebration of 175 Anniversary of Assam Rifles and thanked Lt Gen KS Yadava, PVSM, AVSM, SM, VSM, DGAR for the same. Swami Ramdev appreciated the 175 years of dedicated service to the nation by the Force and said that he was proud and exalted at the opportunity to teach Yoga to the Assam Rifles. He gave a very knowledgeable discourse on the anatomy of the human body, and the common causes of the prevalent diseases. He emphasised that Yoga if done properly is a preventive measure and could cure any disease.


Once the Yogrishi finished with the proceedings, Maj Gen Jai Prakash Nehra, AVSM, Addl DGAR offered a vote of thanks to Swami Ramdev, for enlightening the offrs, families and civilians of Shillong for their encouraging response. He also thanked the offrs involved with the org of Yoga Camp for making it a spectacular success.


Later, in the evening, an interaction was org at the Assam Rifles house, in honor of Swami Ramdev to enable the offrs and ladies to interact closely. Swami Ramdev was seen off by DGAR & other Sr offrs at the ALG on the next day.


The Yoga Camp was a spectacular success, and a wonderful begining in spreading the message of a healthier lifestyle through Yoga on the momentous occasion of the 175th Anniversary celebrations of the Assam Rifles in the North Eastern States.

[Sanku]

If BR wants a militia to fight our security forces then what is the difference between him and maoists? Sorry I take back my support.

Dillbulah, it is important to have long memories and even longer sankalp.

Remember all he has done for IA and other security forces, this is not against them.

[Sanku]

manish is india a banana republic then?

Good morning!!

BR merely exposed it. Do you think when people say "RSS killed Karkare", when Sadhvi Pagya Sinh is tortured, when Col Purhoit is tortured and Doggy Raja goes and sympthazies with the terrorists and calls the slain policeman names?

When children are lathi charged at 2.00 PM at night, when 70000 sleeping people are teargassed, when women are pulled with their hair and thrashed.

When Suzzanee dear gets a free pass, and when Talisma Nasreen is hounded out.

When Decorated Policemen fighting against terror commit sucide.

When MMS pats the back of a publically known thug like A Raja?

India has been a Banana republic for some time now.

[brihaspati]

So we have potshots taken at Bhumiputri "Mamata"'s brain? Ah! that clarifies - because that particular dig is a favourite with the CPI(M) mid levels [who have all finally been leveled more or less]. So our rants against BR style extraconstitutionalism comes from a voice that really belongs to the category of "transitioning" from the CPI(M) to the Congress? That explains why such voices choose to ignore the reality that even private members bills gets "accepted" "constitutionally" only when the ruling regime has an interest in getting the bill accepted - but thinks it is politically risky to associate formally as a party.

Still no answer as to whether "fatwas" are extra-constitutional or not? Whether removing or chasing Tasleema out happened out of "constitutional" methods being applied by "peaceful" Islamist "women and children and elderly" within the "parliament"? Was an act declared that notified the relevant streets as "Parliament" for the time? Or just by getting Sha Bano cheated out of her support through a private members bill the result of "peaceful" constitutional methods in the streets?

[Arjun]

i think there is a tendency to equate anyone in khavi to rashtriya. its amazing that people here are equating ramdev to shri aurobindo and shri vivekananda. what was their depth and what is ramdev's? dont we need some sense of proportion or is it just enough to shout?

Good point...who has equated BR to Aurobindo and Vivekananda?

[Sanku]

http://www.thorninpaw.com/mt/archives/001870.html

The interest of the Indian Army (the second largest in the world after China's) coincides with a broader yoga revival. The military's routine is based on the teachings of Baba Ramdev, a superstar guru who has popularised yoga across the subcontinent through a combination of plain speaking, fierce diatribes against western lifestyles, and a cable television channel.

[Manishw]

manish is india a banana republic then?

Good morning!!

BR merely exposed it. Do you think when people say "RSS killed Karkare", when Sadhvi Pagya Sinh is tortured, when Col Purhoit is tortured and Doggy Raja goes and sympthazies with the terrorists and calls the slain policeman names?

When children are lathi charged at 2.00 PM at night, when 70000 sleeping people are teargassed, when women are pulled with their hair and thrashed.

When Suzzanee dear gets a free pass, and when Talisma Nasreen is hounded out.

When Decorated Policemen fighting against terror commit sucide.

When MMS pats the back of a publically known thug like A Raja?

India has been a Banana republic for some time now.

There was a woman who was paralyzed in the brutal midnight Lathi charge as well.I also saw a very simple woman from karnataka crying totally lost traumatized and disoriented. This can also be added to the list above.

[Sanku]

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/ind ... 08082.html

Yoga Camp for para-military forces to be held from tomorrow

Baba Ramdev, the self made Yoga Guru, will conduct a 10 day yoga camp to impart training to personnel of Central para-military forces from tomorrow.
This is part of the efforts made by the Ministry of Home Affairs for stress management among the personnel.

[Sanku]

CRPF to undergo Yoga therapy - May 2, 2008

Chaitra Krushna Dwadashi

New Delhi: Alarmed by the increasing job stress levels and environment-related diseases within its ranks, the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) is resorting to traditional meditation techniques to tone up the health of its personnel who are mostly deployed in high-stress insurgency and Maoist-affected areas across the country.

The CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force), the world's biggest and India's elite paramilitary force, is planning to train 800 of its personnel in Yoga under Baba Ramdev as master trainers, who in turn will train the entire force in order to bust stress through spiritual path.

As part of the stress management efforts, the CRPF personnel are also being detailed to undergo "Stress Education and Effective Decisions" Programme (SEED), organised by RajYoga Education and Research Foundation, Mount Abu. About two dozen CRPF personnel have so far attended the course at the foundation's Gurgaon and Mount Abu centres.

[Sanku]

http://kanglaonline.com/2011/02/yoga-wi ... e-country/

The Yoga Guru who launched his “Bharat Swabhiman Yatra (The Journey of India’s Pride)” from Dwaraka, Gujarat in mid 2010, disclosed that it would focus its fight mainly on five points: to eradicate corruption, black money and corrupt practices; to bring back the huge looted money of about Rs 400 lakh crore, hidden in foreign countries; to end conspiracy of foreign governments and their companies to loot the country and to build the character of the country’s citizens.

Baba Ramdev was happy to be here at Kohima for the first time to conduct Yoga classes and was thrilled to see massive participants. He recalled the Nagas contributions to the freedom struggle and also those who sacrificed their precious lives during Kargil war for the defense of the country.

Today’s historic Yoga class of Baba Ramdev was attended by government officials, army and paramilitary officials, hundreds of Kohima residents.

[Sanku]

http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/det ... 1411/oth07

Before embarking on a Tawang trip on February 17, Baba Ramdev will have another yoga session at Rajiv Gandhi Stadium, Naharlagun in the morning. At Tawang, he will visit Tawang Monastery and War Memorial, and interact with officers of Army’s 5 Mountain Division prior to addressing a public meeting at Parade Ground, Tawang.

Tawang on 15th Feb.

[Manishw]

manish is india a banana republic then? you realize that the two will play this game and each will escalate and do you realize the fallout of this?

I guess Sanku Ji has already replied.

i think there is a tendency to equate anyone in khavi to rashtriya. its amazing that people here are equating ramdev to shri aurobindo and shri vivekananda. what was their depth and what is ramdev's? dont we need some sense of proportion or is it just enough to shout?

I haven't and people who are doing so may be doing in a different context altogether so I will let this pass.Kindly stick to specifics when u address your posts to me. Bhasanbazi can be done in other posts.

i'm not saying ramdev must be altruistic, i can live with a politically ambitious baba, but ramdev is an impulsive guy and very shallow and not the rakshak we hope for. he'll end up harming genuine rashtriya thinking.

Who is this We many people will not agree with this sweeping statement and whether he is Rakshak or not is besides the point, he is raising questions of corruption which a normal person feels as his own voice.Anyway I don't agree with this politically ambitious comment so speak for your own self.

there are nuances and differences, but india has been served well by non-populist leaders who have had vision - nehru, shastri, pvn, abv and even mms. thankfully indian leadership has been above demagoguery and taught much needed lessons which we people might not have learnt otherwise. not all lessons have been useful, but on an average we have benefited.

Nehru, MM'S indian leadership has been above demagoguery and taught much needed lessons which we people might not have learnt otherwise

now it is another thing that the success of the past have gone into heads of the current elite and the leaders and they need to be re-educated.

Agree about reeducation but what success of the past are u talking about.If it is failures then recounting just some of them will take up the whole night.

[Sanku]

Training in Ahmadabad Cantt.