News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

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NRao
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by NRao »

The two pictures posted earlier, of the Situation Room in the WH, showed them looking at and listening to the CIA team watching events unfold live.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »



Rep. Peter King, Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, on MSNBC "Morning Joe" on the killing of Osama bin Laden. 5-2-11


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/ ... 7#42856107

Check Brezinski talk about relations with Pakistan

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789//vp ... 5#42856935
Last edited by svinayak on 03 May 2011 11:55, edited 2 times in total.
saket
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by saket »

Did Musharraf know about the Abbottabad safe house?

Interesting passage from his autobiography contained in this NDTV clip http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/m ... use/198402
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Gagan »

A few points that I have to make.
1. Don't underestimate the US administration's intelligence level.
They KNOW that Pakistan Army / ISI=Al Qaida=Terrorism. Which is why that was the SOP at Guantanamo Bay.

What we see in action today is the GOTUS giving the green signal to the US media-wallas to go after the Pakistanis, make them sweat, put the fear of god into them. Note that the US is appearing menaicing and threatening, but is slowly saying the same old' "Pakistanis have killed more terrorists in pakistan than any other country" :rotfl:

Actually the US is bargaining. They are devaluing what Pakistan has to offer to get a better bargain.

The US still needs the ISI and the Pak Fauj for quite number of years. Pakistan still has the US's balls in its hands via its potential to unleash terror - WMD terror. And the US has Pakistan by its balls with the economic lifeline, and is now squeezing them with the "Terror sponsoring Nation" branding threat.
2. At the end of the day, after the media wallas have cried themselves hoarse, and Pakistan has agreed to GUBO (for the time being - another tactical Taquiya) at the US's terms, it will be back to business. Munna will regain frontline terrier al-lie in GOAT hunt.

There can't be any other possible end result of this!

3. Prithvi, that black and white image of OBL's compound is a SAR image / DigitalGlobe picture that was released by the US department of defence yesterday. It is amongst a series of images, designs available in a pdf that is available here:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/G ... iefing.pdf
4. I have some ideas on how that op was carried out. I would love it if some BRFites could pitch in and make a sort of mil scenario out of it to try and make a time line of how this was done.

One thing I would like to point out is the amount of freedom of operation that the Navy Seals were given with this one. It must have been a big relief for the commandos. Unreasonable Political restrictions on the mission scope were not imposed. In the sense that the commandos on the ground had the freedom to take out - eliminate OBL (and possibly any hostage if they got in the way) if the situation demanded. The parallel goal was that NO US PERSONNEL was to be a casualty.

Our netas need to take a BIG LESSON from that. I know for a fact that out netas bargain with out service chiefs and Commando leaders that in return for their sanctioning a raid, they impose conditions like, no civilians should be harmed, take the terrorists alive etc etc, and their naive decisions unnecessarily put the commandos' lives in undue danger, they tend to take away operational freedom from the commando. That restriction on acting always plays at the back of the commando's mind when he is in the field.

So OBL hid behind his wife, used her as a shield, with a weapon in his hand, and the commandos took both of them out, instead of trying to risk themselves to take him alive.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by krishnan »

On a moonless night eight months later, 79 American commandos in four helicopters descended on the compound, the officials said. Shots rang out. A helicopter stalled and would not take off. Pakistani authorities, kept in the dark by their allies in Washington, scrambled forces as the American commandos rushed to finish their mission and leave before a confrontation. Of the five dead, one was a tall, bearded man with a bloodied face and a bullet in his head. A member of the Navy Seals snapped his picture with a camera and uploaded it to analysts who fed it into a facial recognition program.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

I think things are starting to develop rapidly, as the dust begins to settle on the "forced retirement" of OBL. :twisted:

Later today, CIA director Leon Panetta will give US congressional leaders a very frank, closed-door assessment of the intel gathered in the raid of OBL's hideout.

By then, every fingerprint of note will have been identified, and the hard drives will have been cracked. I will be very surprised if nothing found there is traceable back to Kiyani, Pasha, et al.

I think "America's Most Wanted" list is going to get a few new names added to it! :mrgreen:
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Gagan »

What I am saying is that the ISI was hiding Osama and several others.
The US knew that the ISI is doing it.
And the pakistanis knew that the US suspects them.
But plausible deniability existed.

OBL was I think given up by Pakistan, after the US did all the hard work to find him out. I suspect that Pakistan was hiding OBL as long as OBL didn't become a liability.
When the US found him out, OBL became a liability and the pakistanis stepped back to remain out of the picture, and didn't interfere. The US made sure that they couldn't interfere even if they wanted to.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by sum »

The US still needs the ISI and the Pak Fauj for quite number of years. Pakistan still has the US's balls in its hands via its potential to unleash terror - WMD terror. And the US has Pakistan by its balls with the economic lifeline, and is now squeezing them with the "Terror sponsoring Nation" branding threat.
2. At the end of the day, after the media wallas have cried themselves hoarse, and Pakistan has agreed to GUBO (for the time being - another tactical Taquiya) at the US's terms, it will be back to business. Munna will regain frontline terrier al-lie in GOAT hunt.
Sad but true...

Few boundaries/sixers for couple of weeks, Unkil's other demands being met ( Haqqani etc) and things will be back to normal with GOTUS public pronouncements of how great TSP is etc...
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by UBanerjee »

Charlie wrote:
Altair wrote: By God! She is tearing'em apart. She mentions, ramzi bin al shaeb, abu zubeida,khalid sheikh...Who is she! The venom she has is deadly!
You are looking for Rachel Maddow in this video

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns ... /#42869391
This video is fantastic :rotfl:

"Pakistan.. Pakistan... Pakistan...Pakistan!... PAKISTAN!"

-direct quote from video!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by saket »

There is no way that pakis had ANY idea of the operation or the fact that USA had tracked OBL down.

If they had, the ISI would have moved him away from Abbottabad ASAP, they would never ever have allowed any of this to go down so close to the PMA.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by UBanerjee »

Yea, it is absolutely clear that Pakistan was not complicit in this simply because of the location of capture. Well, they may have been told to fudge off as the operation began, although "senior administration officials" have clearly said that they were only told after it was over.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

Ayman Mohyelden from Al-Jazeera English is doing an equal-equal between OBL and Unabomber, which is complete BS!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

Rachel Maddow video tearing a new one for the Pakis

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#42869391
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Aditya_V »

abhishek_sharma wrote:What India can learn from Operation Osama: Gurmeet Kanwal

http://www.hindustantimes.com/What-Indi ... 92546.aspx
What Rubish, GIven the relative miltary strength of India and fact that any killing of terrorist Gets support from an army of INHUMAN rigths orgs we can do no such action.

The same Amenesty which goes on and on about cruel Indian army and no fair trial for terrorists in Kashmir will shut its mouth on such operations by its paymaster.

what is good for the Goose shoulf be good for the gander No.

P.S. See what has happened to people who killed Dawood Ibrahim's men Tulsiram Prajapati and Sohrabudin Sheikh. The people who killed them have been made an example of and from now on no more such tough action will be taken by Indian Police.

Sometimes one wonders which side, NGO's, Politicans, Media, activists and Babus are on and I am convinced India cannot move on till its media is first revamped.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by vina »

No way in hell the Pakis were informed .

John Brennan in a white house briefing said that the Pakis were informed about the raid AFTER the US helis had left Paki airspace!

Nothing can be more categorical than that. The Geo TV monkeys can come and spin about "cooperation" and US force taking off from the "Ghazi" airbase yada yada , but that concoction is as credible as their zam zam cola.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Johann »

Consider the intelligence challenge of tracking down and locating a single man whose face is recognisable all around the world, and whose head is a $25m reward. It still took almost 10 years.

Now think about the intelligence challenge of tracking down and removing or incapacitating every single Pakistani nuclear weapon all at once, when no one can be sure exactly how many there are in the first place. There may be misinformation, and decoys thrown in to the mix, and the weapons may be disassembled with components kept separately.

There's almost no comparison to the challenge, unless you tried to imagine killing every single person under Bin Laden all at once.

The US cant get Bin Laden and Zawahiri at the same time, much as it would like to.

The USG opted for a commando raid because of the certainty required to identify the body. Now think about the certainty you would want when it came to targeting nuclear weapons and components.

Aditya, the UN and human rights groups have been extremely critical of the CIA drone strike program over Waziristan.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by UBanerjee »

Aditya_V wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:What India can learn from Operation Osama: Gurmeet Kanwal

http://www.hindustantimes.com/What-Indi ... 92546.aspx
What Rubish, GIven the relative miltary strength of India and fact that any killing of terrorist Gets support from an army of INHUMAN rigths orgs we can do no such action.

The same Amenesty which goes on and on about cruel Indian army and no fair trial for terrorists in Kashmir will shut its mouth on such operations by its paymaster.
Frankly, who cares? If that's what's stopping our forces that's just sad. Thousands of left-wing children of the Soviets make :(( about US human rights violations all the time- both real and imagined. There may be other reasons not to do it, although I can't think of too many good ones. How much worse could it get? Pakistan will start sponsoring terrorism inside India to get back at us? :lol:

I mean it's one thing to be mature about the costs of going to full-scale military operations- there is a very real calculus there. But it's another to sit on our hands and do nothing but make some mild noises and score stupid self-goals like S-e-S! Why shouldn't we at least train for and make the attempt? Not necessarily in the same 'shock and awe' fashion; there are other ways to carry out assassination ops which are more subtle.

Right now the first thing anybody thinks of when considering a strike in India, is that there are basically 0 consequences to doing so. No cost at all for perpetual cross-border insurgency. No cost at all to conducting big strikes, whether on Parliament or 26/11 or any number of other examples. The ripest Indian targets like Dawood barely even bother to "hide" :roll: Now think of someone running the calculation for the US- we will blow up two of their towers, and they will move heaven and earth to wreck our nations and bury us with the fishes! There hasn't even been a single attack on US soil since that one!

In this world, no one will give these things to you! Do you think the Israelis give a damn everytime one thousand Eurotrash/jihadi/moonbat jackals cry crocodile tears at an Israeli strike or operation?
Last edited by UBanerjee on 03 May 2011 11:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by James B »

Last edited by James B on 03 May 2011 12:30, edited 1 time in total.
NRao
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by NRao »

The fact that the inserted Navy Seals were prepared to engage Paki forces should be a great indicator that the all-knowing Pakis were not part of this raid.

Pakis can never be trusted (OK, let me add: any more). However, there are a few more out there in PakiLand that need to be rounded up. And, this 200 mile round trip, actually more I guess - they headed out to sea, is a great indicator of what extent the US is ready to go.

Funny that Kiyani mentions that HE has broken the back of terrorism. :) The very sponsor-er of it claims that, while being about a mile away from where Osama was holed up, he says that. Liar.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Aditya_V »

UBanerjee wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:quote="abhishek_sharma"]What India can learn from Operation Osama: Gurmeet Kanwal

http://www.hindustantimes.com/What-Indi ... 92546.aspx/quote]

What Rubish, GIven the relative miltary strength of India and fact that any killing of terrorist Gets support from an army of INHUMAN rigths orgs we can do no such action.

The same Amenesty which goes on and on about cruel Indian army and no fair trial for terrorists in Kashmir will shut its mouth on such operations by its paymaster.
Frankly, who cares? If that's what's stopping our forces that's just sad. Thousands of left-wing children of the Soviets make :(( about US human rights violations all the time- both real and imagined. There may be other reasons not to do it, although I can't think of too many good ones. How much worse could it get? Pakistan will start sponsoring terrorism inside India to get back at us? :lol:

I mean it's one thing to be mature about the costs of going to full-scale military operations- there is a very real calculus there. But it's another to sit on our hands and do nothing but make some mild noises and score stupid self-goals like S-e-S! Why shouldn't we at least train for and make the attempt? Not necessarily in the same 'shock and awe' fashion; there are other ways to carry out assassination ops which are more subtle.

Right now the first thing anybody thinks of when considering a strike in India, is that there are basically 0 consequences to doing so. No cost at all for perpetual cross-border insurgency. No cost at all to conducting big strikes, whether on Parliament or 26/11 or any number of other examples. Now think of someone running the calculation for the US- we will blow up two of their towers, and they will move heaven and earth to wreck our nations and bury us with the fishes! There hasn't even been a single attack on US soil since that one!

In this world, no one will give these things to you! Do you think the Israelis give a damn everytime one thousand Eurotrash/jihadi/moonbat jackals cry crocodile tears at an Israeli strike or operation?
Boss unlike the US where the entire PR Machinery and Parts of the Political establishment ( these orgs have a huge impact on PUblic and Beauracratic will) is pro doing nothing against people involved in Anti-India activities, nothing can be done.

Yes there is also a very serious miltary calculus since our Miltary capability is way behind what we need it to be.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by arunsrinivasan »

Here is what Rachel Maddow said sometime back when US expanded the war into Pakistan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glvwfp_e ... r_embedded

Summary:

US making a big mistake by going into Pakistan
Pakistani people will view US as an aggressor.
Last edited by arunsrinivasan on 03 May 2011 12:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

From NYT

...

With more agents in the field, the C.I.A. finally got the courier’s family name. With that, they turned to one of their greatest investigative tools — the National Security Agency began intercepting telephone calls and e-mail messages between the man’s family and anyone inside Pakistan. From there they got his full name.

Last July, Pakistani agents working for the C.I.A. spotted him driving his vehicle near Peshawar. When, after weeks of surveillance, he drove to the sprawling compound in Abbottabad, American intelligence operatives felt they were onto something big, perhaps even Bin Laden himself. It was hardly the spartan cave in the mountains that many had envisioned as his hiding place. Rather, it was a three-story house ringed by 12-foot-high concrete walls, topped with barbed wire and protected by two security fences. He was, said Mr. Brennan, the White House official, “hiding in plain sight.”

Back in Washington, Mr. Panetta met with Mr. Obama and his most senior national security aides, including Mr. Biden, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates. The meeting was considered so secret that White House officials didn’t even list the topic in their alerts to each other.

That day, Mr. Panetta spoke at length about Bin Laden and his presumed hiding place.

“It was electric,” an administration official who attended the meeting said. “For so long, we’d been trying to get a handle on this guy. And all of a sudden, it was like, wow, there he is.”

There was guesswork about whether Bin Laden was indeed inside the house. What followed was weeks of tense meetings between Mr. Panetta and his subordinates about what to do next.

While Mr. Panetta advocated an aggressive strategy to confirm Bin Laden’s presence, some C.I.A. clandestine officers worried that the most promising lead in years might be blown if bodyguards suspected the compound was being watched and spirited the Qaeda leader out of the area.

For weeks last fall, spy satellites took detailed photographs, and the N.S.A. worked to scoop up any communications coming from the house. It wasn’t easy: the compound had neither a phone line nor Internet access. Those inside were so concerned about security that they burned their trash rather than put it on the street for collection.

In February, Mr. Panetta called Vice Adm. William H. McRaven, commander of the Pentagon’s Joint Special Operations Command, to C.I.A. headquarters in Langley, Va., to give him details about the compound and to begin planning a military strike.

Admiral McRaven, a veteran of the covert world who had written a book on American Special Operations, spent weeks working with the C.I.A. on the operation, and came up with three options: a helicopter assault using American commandos, a strike with B-2 bombers that would obliterate the compound, or a joint raid with Pakistani intelligence operatives who would be told about the mission hours before the launch.

Weighing the Options

On March 14, Mr. Panetta took the options to the White House. C.I.A. officials had been taking satellite photos, establishing what Mr. Panetta described as the habits of people living at the compound. By now evidence was mounting that Bin Laden was there.

The discussions about what to do took place as American relations with Pakistan were severely strained over the arrest of Raymond A. Davis, the C.I.A. contractor imprisoned for shooting two Pakistanis on a crowded street in Lahore in January. Some of Mr. Obama’s top aides worried that any military assault to capture or kill Bin Laden might provoke an angry response from Pakistan’s government, and that Mr. Davis could end up dead in his jail cell. Mr. Davis was ultimately released on March 16, giving a freer hand to his colleagues.

On March 22, the president asked his advisers their opinions on the options.

Mr. Gates was skeptical about a helicopter assault, calling it risky, and instructed military officials to look into aerial bombardment using smart bombs. But a few days later, the officials returned with the news that it would take some 32 bombs of 2,000 pounds each. And how could the American officials be certain that they had killed Bin Laden?

“It would have created a giant crater, and it wouldn’t have given us a body,” said one American intelligence official.

A helicopter assault emerged as the favored option. The Navy Seals team that would hit the ground began holding dry runs at training facilities on both American coasts, which were made up to resemble the compound. But they were not told who their target might be until later.

...

Mr. Panetta told the group that the C.I.A. had “red-teamed” the case — shared their intelligence with other analysts who weren’t involved to see if they agreed that Bin Laden was probably in Abbottabad. They did. It was time to decide.

Around the table, the group went over and over the negative scenarios. There were long periods of silence, one aide said. And then, finally, Mr. Obama spoke: “I’m not going to tell you what my decision is now — I’m going to go back and think about it some more.” But he added, “I’m going to make a decision soon.”

Sixteen hours later, he had made up his mind. Early the next morning, four top aides were summoned to the White House Diplomatic Room. Before they could brief the president, he cut them off. “It’s a go,” he said. The earliest the operation could take place was Saturday, but officials cautioned that cloud cover in the area meant that Sunday was much more likely.

The next day, Mr. Obama took a break from rehearsing for the White House Correspondents Dinner that night to call Admiral McRaven, to wish him luck.

On Sunday, White House officials canceled all West Wing tours so unsuspecting tourists and visiting celebrities wouldn’t accidentally run into all the high-level national security officials holed up in the Situation Room all afternoon monitoring the feeds they were getting from Mr. Panetta. A staffer went to Costco and came back with a mix of provisions — turkey pita wraps, cold shrimp, potato chips, soda.

At 2:05 p.m., Mr. Panetta sketched out the operation to the group for a final time. Within an hour, the C.I.A. director began his narration, via video from Langley. “They’ve crossed into Pakistan,” he said.

Across the Border

The commando team had raced into the Pakistani night from a base in Jalalabad, just across the border in Afghanistan. The goal was to get in and get out before Pakistani authorities detected the breach of their territory by what were to them unknown forces and reacted with possibly violent results.

In Pakistan, it was just past midnight on Monday morning, and the Americans were counting on the element of surprise. As the first of the helicopters swooped in at low altitudes, neighbors heard a loud blast and gunshots. A woman who lives two miles away said she thought it was a terrorist attack on a Pakistani military installation. Her husband said no one had any clue Bin Laden was hiding in the quiet, affluent area. “It’s the closest you can be to Britain,” :rotfl: he said of their neighborhood.

The Seal team stormed into the compound — the raid awakened the group inside, one American intelligence official said — and a firefight broke out. One man held an unidentified woman living there as a shield while firing at the Americans. Both were killed. Two more men died as well, and two women were wounded. American authorities later determined that one of the slain men was Bin Laden’s son, Hamza, and the other two were the courier and his brother.

The commandos found Bin Laden on the third floor, wearing the local loose-fitting tunic and pants known as a shalwar kameez, and officials said he resisted before he was shot above the left eye near the end of the 40-minute raid. The American government gave few details about his final moments. “Whether or not he got off any rounds, I frankly don’t know,” said Mr. Brennan, the White House counterterrorism chief. But a senior Pentagon official, briefing on the condition of anonymity, said it was clear Bin Laden “was killed by U.S. bullets.”

American officials insisted they would have taken Bin Laden into custody if he did not resist, although they considered that likelihood remote. “If we had the opportunity to take Bin Laden alive, if he didn’t present any threat, the individuals involved were able and prepared to do that,” Mr. Brennan said.

One of Bin Laden’s wives identified his body, American officials said. A picture taken by a Seals commando and processed through facial recognition software suggested a 95 percent certainty that it was Bin Laden. Later, DNA tests comparing samples with relatives found a 99.9 percent match.

But the Americans faced other problems. One of their helicopters stalled and could not take off. Rather than let it fall into the wrong hands, the commandos moved the women and children to a secure area and blew up the malfunctioning helicopter.

By that point, though, the Pakistani military was scrambling forces in response to the incursion into Pakistani territory. “They had no idea about who might have been on there,” Mr. Brennan said. “Thankfully, there was no engagement with Pakistani forces.”

As they took off at 1:10 a.m. local time, taking a trove of documents and computer hard drives from the house, the Americans left behind the women and children. A Pakistani official said nine children, from 2 to 12 years old, are now in Pakistani custody.

The Obama administration had already determined it would follow Islamic tradition of burial within 24 hours to avoid offending devout Muslims, yet concluded Bin Laden would have to be buried at sea, since no country would be willing to take the body. Moreover, they did not want to create a shrine for his followers.

So the Qaeda leader’s body was washed and placed in a white sheet in keeping with tradition. On the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson, it was placed in a weighted bag as an officer read prepared religious remarks, which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker, according to the senior Pentagon official.

The body then was placed on a prepared flat board and eased into the sea. Only a small group of people watching from one of the large elevator platforms that move aircraft up to the flight deck were witness to the end of America’s most wanted fugitive.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by SSridhar »

Charlie wrote:Xinhua: Pakistan onlee killed OBL
Is the Chink state similarly retarded like Pak... Is Xinhua only news source there... :lol:
The Pakistani Foreign Office statement issued yesterday said that OBL was killed by US action.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by kmkraoind »

Pak could be protecting other Qaeda leaders: US Senator

Dhimmitude at its best and USG still does not want to pull the ventilatory support to TSP.
A US Senator today suggested that Pakistan could be protecting other Al-Qaeda leaders inside the country given the fact that Osama bin Laden was killed by elite US forces in an operation deep inside the country.

The Senator, Charles Schumer, said there are strong "anti-US, pro-Taliban" elements in Pakistan whose goal is to fight India and seek allies in that regard. "We (the US) are not part of that," he told MSNBC news channel.

"If Pakistan was protecting bin Laden, then absolutely a corollary would flow that they're probably protecting others, and we'll have to wait and see and get as much evidence as we can. It is a very, very difficult -- it's probably the most difficult foreign policy question we face," he said.

Schumer, however, did not agree with the statements of some of his colleagues that until Congress and the American public are assured that the Pakistani government is not shielding terrorists, financial aid to Pakistan should be suspended.

"We know that Pakistan is a divided country. There's a strong pro-Western element. And in fact, if you talk to the top people in our intelligence organisations, Pakistan was helpful in finding bin Laden. At the same time, there's also a strong element that is anti-US, pro Taliban. Their whole goal is to fight India, and they seek allies in that regard, and we're not part of that," Schumer said.

He said that was why the US did not inform the Pakistani establishment about the mission that killed bin Laden as there are "too many people in the defense agencies, the intelligence agencies who aren't trustworthy."

"So there's a division. Now, the hope is that the killing of bin Laden will strengthen the hand of those who are pro-Western and on our side," he noted.

"But I think you have to be careful before cutting off aid, because the country is vital to us, and we need to find ways to strengthen the pro-Western factions in Pakistan and weaken those who are anti-Western and pro Taliban," Schumer said.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Raja Bose »

Karna_A wrote:Why use Navy Seals instead of Delta for such operation?

Isn't Delta more suitable for this kind of combat?
Which brings to mind that are Indian MARCOS trained differently than Seals, since they were taken off during 26/11.
Roughly National Guards are like Deltas and MARCOS like SEALS, or the training in both is so much similar that they could do both.

Could MARCOS have continued the 26/11 fight and killed atleast a few of the piglets.
Delta is not the same as NSG - the former is more of a direct action unit than NSG. MARCOS have a similar role as SEALs and have been engaged in similar roles in COIN ops in India. In the end it is not about the training of these forces but political will and muscle and intelligence which makes any such mission successful (and ofcourse loads of luck). And given the caliber of our "leaders", let's not have wet-dreams either.
ramana wrote:Some ex Chief chef on Greta's show was saying that its a fallout of relations between them and eye yes eye.
Yeah that was my first thought given the timing of the whole incident - 1st inkling of the tamasha came, when I got a call from a friend who happened to come across some Paki talking about choppers and explosions near PMA.

BTW UH-60 is called the BlackHawk (its not a variant of BlackHawk) with the variants having names ending in 'Hawk'. It replaced the Vietnam-era UH-1 :) The BlackHawks used in this op most probably will be from the 160th SOAR (same folks involved in the BlackHawk Down incident in 1993 in Mogadishu).
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Amid Skepticism, Pakistan Calculates Its Response

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world ... istan.html
The discovery of Osama bin Laden by American commandos close to the Pakistani capital dealt a devastating blow to the Pakistani military and its intelligence service and set off a fevered round of speculation about how Bin Laden could have been hiding virtually under their noses in a small city that housed military garrisons.

It was amply clear on Monday that the Pakistani military was experiencing a gamut of shock and embarrassment :(( . Pakistan’s official statement, slow in coming, was clearly calculated to put the best face on a moment that threatens to reset relations with the United States.

But the United States’ preoccupation with Pakistan — a nuclear-armed state with rising levels of militancy — revolves around more than Bin Laden, important as he was, and officials on both sides may seek to avoid a sharp turn toward hostility.

Not least, the United States would like Pakistani cooperation in the continuing fight against terrorism and in ending the war in Afghanistan at a moment when Bin Laden’s capture was bound to alter the debate about whether the United States should withdraw from a costly nine-year war.

American officials stopped well short of accusing Pakistan of sheltering Bin Laden, but they strongly indicated that they would want answers about the extent of the network in Pakistan that allowed Bin Laden to live and hide in apparent comfort for so long.

It’s inconceivable that Bin Laden did not have a support system in the country that allowed him to remain there for an extended period of time,” John O. Brennan, the president’s top counterterrorism official, said at a White House briefing on Monday.

I am not going to speculate about what type of support he might have had on an official basis inside of Pakistan,” he added. “We are closely talking to the Pakistanis right now, and again, we are leaving open opportunities to continue to pursue whatever leads might be out there.”

At a Pentagon briefing in Washington on Monday, a senior Defense Department official said, “We have no indications that the Pakistanis were aware :evil: that Osama Bin Laden was at the compound in Abbottabad,” the city where he was killed, about an hour’s drive from the capital.

Similarly, a former senior C.I.A. official who closely followed the hunt for Bin Laden said he had heard of no evidence that Bin Laden was being protected by the Inter-Services Intelligence, :evil: Pakistan’s spy agency. He called speculation on the subject premature.

:evil: I would be very surprised if he was under ISI protection,” said the former official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He said that the ISI probably knew the identity of the owner of the large compound where Bin Laden was discovered, but not that Bin Laden was hiding there. He said many religiously conservative Pakistanis had a favorable view of Bin Laden.

But others were deeply skeptical, noting that Bin Laden was hiding virtually next door to a military academy.

Some said that at worst, rogue ISI officers or former officers might be involved. But others saw a darker conspiracy.

Someone knew,” Maj. Gen. James R. Helmly, who was the top American officer in Pakistan from mid-2006 to mid-2008, said in a telephone interview from Georgia, where he is now retired.

“Whether it’s in the top echelons of the ISI is anyone’s guess,” he said. “But if someone is building a big ostentatious project like that, and if it’s like where I live, people are going to say, ‘I wonder who’s living there?’ ”

Some American counterterrorism officials said it was almost inconceivable that Pakistan’s security services would be in the dark about the residents of such a compound. “It would be a major intelligence lapse by Pakistani military and police not to know what was going on there,” said Seth G. Jones, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation who until February worked on Afghanistan and Pakistan issues for United States Special Operations Command.

Pakistani analysts expressed puzzlement that while the Pakistani government had issued a statement acknowledging Bin Laden’s capture, the military and intelligence service were strangely silent.

“If Bin Laden’s presence was not known to Pakistan’s security agencies when he was located close to important military installation, it will be viewed as their incompetence or overconfidence :rotfl: ,” Hasan Askari Rizvi, a military analyst in Lahore, said in an e-mail message. “If they knew about his presence but did not take action, this will raise questions about the agenda of Pakistan’s security agencies for fighting terrorism. ”

Some senior American military and counterterrorism officials said that the Obama administration could use the moment to prod Pakistan to take more aggressive actions against militant groups within its borders.

“It has the potential to further sour relations or, for the United States, it could be an opportunity to leverage this for more cooperation,” said Juan Zarate, a top counterterrorism official under President George W. Bush. “The Pakistanis are cowed and chagrined.”

A Pakistani security official confirmed that Pakistan was informed only after the raid was over, and said that the helicopters used in the operation would have flown so close to the ground that they could evade radar detection. The compound had not been under Pakistani surveillance, he said. He spoke on condition of anonymity in accordance with the rules of his agency.

The security official seemed grateful at least for American officials who noted that Pakistani intelligence cooperation had contributed to the operation, :rotfl: and indicated the relationship would continue despite growing distrust between the C.I.A. and the ISI.

“The operation depended on intelligence input,” the security official said. “The mere fact that the cooperation has been acknowledged means the relationship will survive,” he said.

Certainly events after the operation indicate a level of cooperation. Intelligence service personnel took charge of Bin Laden’s remaining family, including women and children, and were questioning them for further intelligence, a security official said. Members of the military removed a crashed helicopter from the scene.

The Pakistani military remained silent, although it has been outspoken over drone attacks in Pakistan’s tribal areas and has denounced operations in which American military forces have crossed into Pakistan’s territory.

Indeed, with Bin Laden’s death in Pakistan, officials here have lost much of their hard-fought bargaining position ...

...

“Now Osama’s presence close to military installations in Pakistan raises whether this operation was with the involvement of Pakistani security agencies and whether Pakistan knows his presence,” Mr. Rizvi said, adding, “If no, it is a question of incompetence, and if yes, then it shows Pakistan was playing a double game.”
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Raja Bose »

I would think Pakis will feign incompetence, demand double the baksheesh along with provisions to protect their H&D and it will be business as usual. Already one can see pious claims being trotted out that there is no way ISI could have sheltered OBL, Pakistan has suffered greatly from terror onlee blah blah. If you repeat something ad nauseum, people will mentally accept it as the truth regardless of how outrageous the uttering is.

vina mullah, unfortunately the US will continue to feed their munna after a stern spanking with the message that go target the Indians if you want, but dont bite the hand that feeds you (not that it will stop the Paki dog from doing it anyway after the memory of the spanking fades away). So except more of "Pakistan is our front line al-lie munna", "Pakistan is victim of terror onlee", "India needs to accomodate Pakistan concerns" lectures from Unkil and MMS bursting forth in song as to how it is his wet dream to be buried in LaWhore.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

Navy Seal Team 6 was the unit which did the job. Special operations team.
They practiced for 2 mths and they launched from Jalalabad
Last edited by svinayak on 03 May 2011 12:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by SSridhar »

Did the helicopters go from Jalalabad or from within Pakistan ? There are conflicting reports still.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by UBanerjee »

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer- seems to be US dictum wrt Pakistan. They certainly have administered a good many jhapads to this "friend", no matter the rhetoric.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by amdavadi »

acharya

Navy SEAL team 6 doesnt exist...It is made up by media, but there is no mention of SEAL team 6.
SEAL doesnt go by team assignment...
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Prasad »

It appears to be Jalalabad. It is 200+kms to abbotabad from there as the crow flies. Well within the range of a blackhawk.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

amdavadi wrote:acharya

Navy SEAL team 6 doesnt exist...It is made up by media, but there is no mention of SEAL team 6.
SEAL doesnt go by team assignment...
I just saw it on TV
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by habal »

there were obviously more than 4 helicopters since, they carried 69 (probably 20 each) and one casualty meant another had to be on standby to evacuate the human payload of the original. Osama would have had a ubiquitous QRT in a nearby building which would have to be dealt with and which may account for the 22 deaths since only Osama, wife, 2 kids and 2 aides were in the mansion.

if backup for all 4 helicopters were arranged and global hawks/predators in high altitude . . . all this and pakis still didn't know what is going on ??
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

saket wrote:Did Musharraf know about the Abbottabad safe house?

Interesting passage from his autobiography contained in this NDTV clip http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/m ... use/198402
He is the one who needs to be taken in by unkil, the one source who will spill the beans. Interesting that he is in Dubai at this point in time.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by amdavadi »

Media is making NAVY SEAL 6 stuff up...you will not find mention of navy SEAL team 6 in any official documents...
SEAL doesnt have number system.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

habal wrote:
if backup for all 4 helicopters were arranged and global hawks/predators in high altitude . . . all this and pakis still didn't know what is going on ??
US has been doing this kind of incursion for low level ALQ operations for some time.
Jence Pak may have mistaken this for a routine incursion. They may not have the location of the mission
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by habal »

yes, but they are giving all wrong numbers in media.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Altair »

Its not Jalalabad, its Ghazi Air force Base
N 33.988, E 72.5669
Ghazi Air Force Base is located near the village of Tarbela Ghazi, north of Islamabad. It served as the main logistics hub in Pakistan for the humanitarian response for Pakistan's flood victims in 2010. Sen John Kerry visited this base then.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by chiragAS »

wheather kiyani knew about OBL presence in PMA or not. one thing is sure
some of the ISI folks will be slaughtered by pakistani army chief himself. for getting PMA into question.

It would be interesting to get info about those ISI folks.. possible that they had control over other pigs too..
Last edited by chiragAS on 03 May 2011 12:52, edited 2 times in total.
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