News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Reaction of Paki press...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13280687
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13280687
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
are the time stamps on the pics PSed?Mahendra wrote:Have the three Pest-e-shaheed in the photographs posted by Prasadji been IDed?
The integrity of a Paki security official == few $$$$......
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
I would say that TSP was beginning to use OBL in a tactical manner again vs India, atleast since 2007-2008. So all developments in J&K since then needs to be seen through this new prism, including al-Badr and stone throwing incidents.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Najam Sethi on May 4 http://pkpolitics.com/2011/05/04/aapas- ... -may-2011/
He gives a detailed reconstruction of the operation (as per his knowledge).
He says that paki military DID NOT know at all of the operation.
Osama lived with around 14 small children and 3-4 wives for SIX YEARS in Abbottabad. Most children were around 4-8 yrs old.
ISI provided CIA raw data of some Arabic calls placed using the same SIM from various places to Saudi Arabia in 2009, last call was from Abbottabad. ISI didnt know the significance but this eventually led to CIA to Osama.
He however says that two helis (chinook) were used and one of which malfunctioned - this seems incorrect as the crashed heli is not a chinook.
He gives a detailed reconstruction of the operation (as per his knowledge).
He says that paki military DID NOT know at all of the operation.
Osama lived with around 14 small children and 3-4 wives for SIX YEARS in Abbottabad. Most children were around 4-8 yrs old.
ISI provided CIA raw data of some Arabic calls placed using the same SIM from various places to Saudi Arabia in 2009, last call was from Abbottabad. ISI didnt know the significance but this eventually led to CIA to Osama.
He however says that two helis (chinook) were used and one of which malfunctioned - this seems incorrect as the crashed heli is not a chinook.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
shyamD, Debka has its own version behind the wall.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
At least the Afghans have some b@lls instead of the leaders of the so called emerging super power in New Delhi who are so scared of TSP that they won't let acts of terror perpetrated by TSP spoil the "piss process"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/world ... istan.html
Guys, one question bothers me. If the see-i-yaa was monitoring that building with all the human and electronic eyes they could muster for a while, they must have tons of info on who was going in and out, and it seems to me that see-i-yaa should have a pretty good idea of the Pakis involved in helping OBL and in turn their connections to eye-yes-eye?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/world ... istan.html
Guys, one question bothers me. If the see-i-yaa was monitoring that building with all the human and electronic eyes they could muster for a while, they must have tons of info on who was going in and out, and it seems to me that see-i-yaa should have a pretty good idea of the Pakis involved in helping OBL and in turn their connections to eye-yes-eye?
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
The story is being kept intentionally confusing, with several different versions and all sorts of rumors floating around. They don't want people to know the specifics.saket wrote: He however says that two helis (chinook) were used and one of which malfunctioned - this seems incorrect as the crashed heli is not a chinook.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Also all this confusion on who was shot and who was killed is being attributed to fog of war and same time they had the Sit Room people watching the events unfold. So what fog?
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
CRS garu,
Now that they know whom they got in that compound, the biggest catch for see-eye-Ye are
- the contents of hard disks, cds, and documents
- the surveillance data that they had over the years
That said, my hunch is that all this tamasha has zero value to India as it is on its own in hunting down its ghosts.
Before India can display its mozo in public, it has to consolidate its consciousness, public, polity and media. We are at least a decade away from that.
Now that they know whom they got in that compound, the biggest catch for see-eye-Ye are
- the contents of hard disks, cds, and documents
- the surveillance data that they had over the years
That said, my hunch is that all this tamasha has zero value to India as it is on its own in hunting down its ghosts.
Before India can display its mozo in public, it has to consolidate its consciousness, public, polity and media. We are at least a decade away from that.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Yup. But that weapon has too much blowback and is too unreliable, hence the last decade (actually started mid 90s).John wrote:He was end product of CIA cold war strategy to use islamic fundamentalism as a weapon against countries with muslim minority (Russia, Yugoslavia, even India and China).UBanerjee wrote:
OBL used the US and they also used him. He decided to pursue a different path after Gulf War 1.
There is no turning back now, 10 years of US operations have ensured that, as well as Israel which will keep the flame alive. They can no longer really use this weapon and go back in a time machine to the 80s.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
X-posted from nukkad:
Cant say that it was necessarily the skull-shattering shot that killed him, khan spec-ops are known to go for overkill, he was shot in the eye and the chest too. Also, another poster made a point about sea burial ensuring that he remains 'undead', which is a western concept often used for vampire glorification.ramana wrote:
Morbid thought, if OBL got head shot with dum dum bullet (kapala moksha) and was buried at sea (not cremated) wasn't he given a Hindu funeral for sadhus!
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
This was as live as it gets - same or perhaps better than they had during Op. Eagle Claw except the stream was unidirectional as the Washington bureaucrats were only allowed to view the proceedings and not interfere with the men on the ground like they did in Eagle Claw and screwed it up before it got started.ramana wrote:Also all this confusion on who was shot and who was killed is being attributed to fog of war and same time they had the Sit Room people watching the events unfold. So what fog?
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
We can expect a new Friday the 13 movie and before that new cult following about OBL as a zombie.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Oh Pakis.
Security?
God Almighty. Why did you make Pakis, I wonder at times. Then He answers: "for entertainment".
What economy? Which economy?Nawa-i-Waqt (Islamabad conservative Urdu daily) wrote:
"Whoever was killed in this operation - Osama or somebody else - the situation is dreadful for us. This operation in Abbottabad has left a big question mark over our sovereignty and freedom… If the US starts direct action in Pakistan, not only will our economy be affected, but our security will also face serious dangers."
Security?
God Almighty. Why did you make Pakis, I wonder at times. Then He answers: "for entertainment".
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
It has good psy-ops value. It also encourages domestic crowd to ask what GoI is doing for them.RamaY wrote: That said, my hunch is that all this tamasha has zero value to India as it is on its own in hunting down its ghosts.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Their historical and innate economy with the truth onlee, saar.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Nesoj, one unwritten rule on BRF. No direct links to any paki forum, please. It gives them too much importance.Nesoj wrote:Although it is politically incorrect to link to posts in 'Puki phorums', this lament was just too irresistible .....
http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index ... 545&st=720#
WE HAVE BEEN RAPED AND BEEN USED AS A CONDOM.
At last ......... realization !!!!
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
I am of the opinion that Pakis use "economy" or "security" only because it is there in the English dictionary.Baikul wrote:Their historical and innate economy with the truth onlee, saar.
What they mean is beyond them.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
BRF has moved to a line of thought that says the following:RamaY wrote:Before India can display its mozo in public, it has to consolidate its consciousness, public, polity and media. We are at least a decade away from that.
1. Our Babudom is that which protects us from the vagaries of foreign influence.
2. Politicians are unreliable.
3. Media is untrustworthy.
The inertia in our system not only prevents rapid development of the nation but also the rapid destruction. We are the epitome of "slow and steady" paradigm. And the time allows us to experiment with various ideologies and practices. Ultimately what will have to crystallize is a system that will improve our trust on the entities that govern and influence us. It will never be perfect, but perfection is not the goal.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Well some posters and ex-posters think they are India! So they are reaching/reached the mathematical limits.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Is a power cut in Pakistan unusual. Cutting power prevents the ability of the residents to turn on lights, disorienting them, The forces used NVGsAaryan wrote:Sir if I may be allowed can I raise some questions..
1)How and why the power was cut?
2)How come 24 seals come in 4 helis ( 2 black hawk and 2 apache) for a super hot mission and one get crashed ( due to technical failure????) and then 24 seals leave with a body and lots of material and may be few other persons. Now how can so many people leave in one black hawk heli?
3)If he was unarmed as they say now, ( earlier they told he was armed) why was he killed??
4)If the people of abbottabad twited and facebooked about the operation, why no one shoot the and picture or video ( I read some where that after the seals flew off, pak security force conducted house to house search and seized memory cards and deleted vids from cell phone)
5)Why is the American version changing with time??
6)Why dint they took his wife who could have thrown more light and his recent activities??
7)If they can release pics of his youngest wife, then why cant they release pics OBL ??
24 men 2 helos. One crashed. A Chinook was sent in as back up
Why Osama killed when unarmed? He may have tried to get his gun
Twiiter and Facebook. Exactly one person did that. It was the middle of the night and he had the choice of either typing or using his camera in pitch blackness to drive up to an even taking place kilometers away. he chose typing.
What changes have occurred in teh American version?
They were not interested in his wife and probably did not feel she would help
The US owns the photos. They can do whatever they want with them
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Interesting article about (possible) dog who might have taken part in the raid:
(From NY Times)
A Bin Laden Hunter on Four Legs
(From NY Times)
A Bin Laden Hunter on Four Legs
The identities of all 80 members of the Navy Seal team who thundered into Abbottabad, Pakistan, and killed Osama bin Laden are the subject of intense speculation, but perhaps none more so than the only member with four legs.
Little is known about what may be the nation’s most courageous dog....
<snip>
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
I tink more Indians watch Zaid Hamid than Pakis. It is the Indians who are affected by his version of history. It is the indians who later question Indian versions of history. It is at best a double edged sword and very few people are as effective as Zaid Hamid.Rahul M wrote:shiv ji, surprised you say that.shiv wrote: Agreed
Personally I think Zaid Hamid should not get more hits from this forum. I never watch his rants - he is a buffoon, but isn't funny. I dont know why BRFites love him so much that they want to share him with others on here. But Atri - you should remove that link too in your reply.
IMO it's better for us if ZH brand of analysis gets more popular in TSP. we want them overconfident and moronic, not logical and grounded in reality. as you yourself say, pakistan turning overtly jihadi is good for India, ZH is one of the symptoms of that phenomenon. why should we hide it ?
If you already know or believe the Indian version you can laugh at Zaid Hamid. But look at this thread. People don't even read the available news and ask the same questions "How can one helo take 24 people" etc. Indians who have themselves not been exposed to the truth about 1947-48, 1965 will start arguing using Zaid Hamid's version. People on BRF (and the the Indian media) have used the 1000 years rule statement in the past. Why increase the number of people we have to teach history by allowing the spread of false history for a laugh? If you post a video - post a critique and say why he is wrong. Just posting the video and saying Ha ha is the same as spreading his brand of poison to people who don't know or have not read Indian history. He is doing it for publicity. Why are we giving him that publicity from "Bharat Rakshak"?
I think Zaid Hamid is more negative than positive.
Last edited by shiv on 05 May 2011 05:45, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
They will say pictures are photoshoped. They denied all the evidences of 9/11 labeling them as fabricated. That is how they are. You know that.Baikul wrote:It's an idea, but tedious in execution. Who's going to get near her to ask her? And who will listen to what 'a child' says?Dipanker wrote:
How hard it is to ask Osama Bin laden's daughter who was present when he got shot in the face?
Pictures are simpler, easier, more direct.
Osama has two dozen children, 10 of them were in the compound. As per US, the girl saw him getting shot and killed. The children and the 3 wives know Osama is dead. Press will ask the wives and the children present in the compound. This is one evidence the Isalmic world will have hard time refuting. They can't say wives and children are fake!
Last edited by Dipanker on 05 May 2011 06:43, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
^^Saar, my original statement on this states that they're conspiracy theorists par excellence, and nothing is going to satisfy them. But hiding the pictures adds more fuel to their paranoia; that is all.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Fake OBL photos fool US senators too!
Senators Just Passing Around Fake Pictures of bin Laden on Their Blackberries
This is probably the most troubling sentence you’ll read today: “While I was shown a photo by another senator of what appeared to be a deceased Osama bin Laden, I do not know if it was authentic.”
That was part of a statement issued Wednesday by New Hampshire Senator Kelly Ayotte clarifying that she had not, in fact, seen pictures of Osama bin Laden’s corpse. Where did the confusion start? Who knows, but Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown was the first to start walking things back after he told a local TV channel, “Let me assure you that he is dead, that bin Laden is dead. I have seen the photos and, in fact, we’ve received the briefing and we’ll continue to get the briefings.”
Either he got shown fake photos in a briefing — highly unlikely considering that Senate Intelligence Chair Diane Feinstein says no one on the Hill has seen the photos, and one would think she’d be among the first to get a peek if they were making the rounds through official channels — or Scott Brown was simply unable to keep track of what he saw in a classified intelligence briefing vs. what he saw in that forwarded e-mail from Uncle Larry (or wherever). Neither possibility inspires much confidence. Nor does the fact that Brown’s first instinct was to brag about his new-found knowledge to the New England Cable News.
But what’s even worse is that some unidentified senator, according to Ayotte, felt compelled to start passing this bogus image around to his or her lawmaker pals on an “electronic device.” (Read: cellphone.) Georgia Senator Saxby Chambliss was duped by this casual hoax too
<snip>
Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2011/05/04/se ... z1LR3EeHAC
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Nothing personal. Please don't take my criticism amiss. You have put in your analysis of what the future might be like - nothing wrong in that, but you have put in too many points without (in my view) critically examining them to see if they are entirely correct or accepted , or are just BRF impressions and folklore.Akshay Kapoor wrote:Shiv Sir,
I think you have misread my intentions here. Was a bit surprised to see that reaction. Not sure what irritated you. Did you think my post hurt national security? If so how? This was a worst case scenario not a research paper presented by a think tank. Ofcourse I hope I am wrong and happy to eat crow now!! Am not here for getting cyber kudos or to prove a point but becuase I am genuinely interested in national security. I can only be secure if my country is secure.
Will take a stab at what you suggested and flesh it out. My email is akapoor.mifft2005@london.edu. If you think appropriate do be kind enough to drop me a quick note. I will respond with some credentials and later with a stab at what you suggested. You can roast me as much as you want on that. That will only help me sleep better knowing that the worst case is wrong and we are all secure.
Also I have a post re the LCA on Tejas in the newbie section. Was hoping the legendary Shiv would look at it and answer the questions. Again, no agenda there, just curiosity.
rgds
For a person like me who is actually interested in looking at the points you have raised - I have been burned too many times in the past by trolls who raise strawman points and then proceed to tear down anyone who argues. For example take a person who says "The Indian leadership will be weak and take terror attacks lying down". He is making a prediction. That is fine - it is his opinion. But if the next conclusion he reaches is based on the earlier one it reads like "1. Indian leaders will take the terror attack lying down and 2. Kashmir and Assam will erupt and be taken over'
So now you have a second premise built up on a first premise that was itself a "prediction" based on a personal opinion. A third premise after this will come after the first and second premises - which are themselves not necessarily correct are assumed as being correct and true. Do you see where the "analysis" goes?
This sort of analysis ends up assuming too many things and either one has to get into a long argument to say what is wrong, or one needs to see it right at the outset and go on the offensive. Since I don't know before hand whether a person who posts it is a sincere seeker (as you seem to be) or a troll - I find the latter route of going on the offensive more productive in finding out the motives of the person who posts something. Sorry if I hurt you.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Another data point about Zaid Hamid on this forum.
On this forum many people strongly object to the views of Barkha Dutt as anti-national to the extent of making veiled fictional references to her in stories or even attacking a colleague of hers and telling people that they watch too much "Undie TV". How come this forum then allows the active propgation of Zaid Hamid's'videos as "a bit of fun. Surely Burqa Dutt and her undie TV should equally be a "bit of fun" like Zaid Hamid?
What gives?
On this forum many people strongly object to the views of Barkha Dutt as anti-national to the extent of making veiled fictional references to her in stories or even attacking a colleague of hers and telling people that they watch too much "Undie TV". How come this forum then allows the active propgation of Zaid Hamid's'videos as "a bit of fun. Surely Burqa Dutt and her undie TV should equally be a "bit of fun" like Zaid Hamid?
What gives?
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Barkha Dutt also provides entertainment for that matter. Why curse Barkha Dutt and ask people to "enjoy" the barely understandable urdu diarrhoea of Zaid Hamid? How does a person who cannot understand Urdu farts know that Hamid is funny? Why does one deserve linking off this forum and the other one so serious that people need to watch other channels and stop watching Undie TV and a colleague attacked for appearing on this forum?amdavadi wrote:fart hamid is a clown. He provides entertainment for those who wants to know pakis.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
shiv can we have a win win situation for all by forwarding burka see zh videos?
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
I realise this is in jest - but I am being serious here.shaardula wrote:shiv can we have a win win situation for all by forwarding burka see zh videos?
People are welcome to forward Zaid Hamids videos to Barkha Dutt but I think it is a piskologically wrong assessment to think that Barkha will think like you and have a change of heart by watching Zaid Hamid's videos. It is a feeble attempt that assumes "I feel this way and if you watch this you too will feel like me" That is wrong. Having watched Barkha a lot more than Zaid hamid I can predict many things that she is likely to say about Zaid Hamid's views that are going to be hated even more on this forum.
If people protest the propagation of Barkha Dutt's views I believe that Zaid Hamid's views should similarly be given a lower profile and not propagated.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Post Osama death, India could benefit from US-Pakistan strains
But with bin Laden's death fueling doubts about the viability of the US-Pakistan relationship -- and removing the original reason for American military involvement in Afghanistan -- Washington's primary focus may shift back to New Delhi as the region's economic and political heavyweight.
"This will further encourage closer US-Indian collaboration, intelligence sharing and cooperation, and finding ways to work with India to address regional stability issues writ large," said Karl Inderfurth, a former assistant Secretary of State for South Asian affairs under the Clinton administration now at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
I agree with Shiv, ZH videos should not be linked on BRF. The guy is a lunatic, why waste time on what nonsense a lunatic has to espouse?
Ok you can watch them on YouTube for entertainment! But don't link.
Ok you can watch them on YouTube for entertainment! But don't link.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
shiv:
Not getting the piskology here.
Z.H. is a TSP spokesman.
BD is an Indian journalist, a Padam Shri FWIW. Her Verbal D, hurts; his amuses.
Not getting the piskology here.
Z.H. is a TSP spokesman.
BD is an Indian journalist, a Padam Shri FWIW. Her Verbal D, hurts; his amuses.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
In Parliament on Wednesday, Information Minister Firdous Ashiq Awan said the American helicopters had evaded detection by radar “due to hilly terrain” and use of “map of the earth” flying techniques, an account that failed to comfort almost anyone.
From NY Times
From NY Times
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Bringing an Indian TV channel or its anchors into a discussion on a comical Paki and a dead bin Laden thread is a giant self-goal akin to "Hindooo terrorists are India's biggest threat" or "Baluchi involvement"..... I really wish this discussion wont go on
Last edited by hnair on 05 May 2011 07:14, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
shivji,
Personaly i have never attack dutt. I have never seen her show, but dont care if anyone post dutt's vidoes like
ZH's.
Personaly i have never attack dutt. I have never seen her show, but dont care if anyone post dutt's vidoes like
ZH's.
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
Pictures of a few good Pakis* in Bin Laden compound in WSJ
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... l?mod=e2fb
NSFW for gore
* A good Paki is a dead Paki
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... l?mod=e2fb
NSFW for gore
* A good Paki is a dead Paki
Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan
GentlemenKlaus wrote:X-posted from nukkad:
Cant say that it was necessarily the skull-shattering shot that killed him, khan spec-ops are known to go for overkill, he was shot in the eye and the chest too. Also, another poster made a point about sea burial ensuring that he remains 'undead', which is a western concept often used for vampire glorification.ramana wrote:
Morbid thought, if OBL got head shot with dum dum bullet (kapala moksha) and was buried at sea (not cremated) wasn't he given a Hindu funeral for sadhus!
'Undead' It is based on my understanding of the enemy: Wahabi, Salafi, Jihadi worldview. Sadhus would at least go to hell, doesn't matter what kaffir ritual is followed. OBL buried at sea is without a grave (hence in a state of undead). Second, being wrapped in white cloth surely became fish food and torn to pieces, which means body is not in one piece (more complicated state of 'undead' cannot rise till body is in one piece). Not all fish (shrimp) are pious. So the pieces eaten by the uncouth fish won't be available to the Maker for putting the body together after the end of the world. Needless to say, won't get his audience with the Maker on judgement day, so his account of good-bad deeds will never be settled, so I understand, undead forever.
Indians at least since 1965 know this, for TSPA flame thrower is a biatch.