Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Johann » 18 May 2011 21:05

Surinder,

Part of it is fear of an American non-nuclear strike. The Pakistanis first moved Crotale SAMs to Kahuta during the Carter (prior to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan) administration when they heard that the policy group tasked with formulating USG response worked through all the options, including military ones. That fear went away during the 1980s and even 1990s, but came back after 9/11. This fear of the US (which they assume would act in collusion with the axis of YYYvil) is I would say the biggest driver in terms of Pakistan's sense of urgency in expanding its arsenal and building up the SPD.

Another driver is the desire to maintain a strongly credible deterrent in the face of Indian improvements in air defences and developing missile defences. That means fewer aircraft delivered weapons and more missile delivered ones, more cruise missiles, and larger numbers of ballistic missiles.

Joseph,

The Americans do have routine contact with some Pakistani units for training purposes, so they have some insight that way. The US has all sorts of reasons to want to develop other kinds of sources within the Pakistani military to monitor both attitudes and activity.

A major assault or mutiny on a nuclear related facility could not be kept secret once it was in motion. The lines would be burning up with chatter. I'm doubt want GHQ would ask for help, but I have a feeling the Americans would insist on offering a menu. In the end the Pakistanis would probably say yes to reassure the Americans, but also for a chance to see what those very classified capabilities looked like.

S Sridhar,

A couple of thoughts in response to your piece.

- The LeT is a very long way from getting to the position where it might act independently from the PA brass.

- My understanding is that the most common kind of Islamism in the PA, especially in the junior officer corps is the Islamic nationalism of Zia that is personified by Hamid Gul and Aslam Beg. These people aren't beards, and they haven't given their allegiance to any particular tanzeem. What they really get worked up about is the idea of Pakistan, and the PA in particular as the sword arm of Islam. It is not so much that the US killed their personal hero, as that a great country like Pakistan shamed Islam by letting America walk all over it. They want Pakistan to behave like a Sunni version of Iran, to show 'strategic defiance' and openly stand up to its enemies who they believe are just as driven by religious compulsions as them.

This kind of nationalism, as well as commitment to the Army as an institution does not always mesh well with the Pakiban, even though this kind of Pakmil Islamism is open to collaboration with Islamists and jihadists of every stripe. That is why Colonel Imam wound up on the side a road with holes in him, just like Squadron Leader Khalid Khwaja.

I just can not see the Pakiban's brand of Islam sweeping through the officer corps, and I can not see an effective nuclear mutiny without officer leadership.

- The ISI's 'infiltration' by jihadi elements at high levels is a natural consequence of the fact that its job is to nurture and direct jihadi groups in the pursuit of the PA's vision of national interests. The SPD could certainly fail in its job, but I don't think it faces the same level of systemic risk as the ISI.

Failure at the SPD is more likely because of subtler erosions; for example its budget and prestige have meant that there are now all sorts of political pressures brought to bear by officers who would like to get in to enjoy those perks. Not all COASs run things the same way - there might be one who decides the political benefits of handing out a few sinecures would offset a small increase in risk.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Brad Goodman » 18 May 2011 21:15

Nawaz for trial of generals, judges who protected Musharraf

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) chief Nawaz Sharif said on Tuesday that judges and military generals who had protected military dictators, including Pervez Musharraf, should be brought to justice.

He was addressing a press conference at the Sindh Tarraqi Passand (STP) House after a luncheon party. Nawaz Sharif reached Hyderabad on Tuesday and met Sindhi nationalist groups, which analysts believe is a move meant to counter the PPP-PML-Q alliance. After a short meeting with STP leader Dr Qadir Magsi and other nationalists, the PML-N leader addressed the media and expressed reservations about the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), which he said was involved in incidents like May 12, 2007, when several lawyers and political activists were killed in Karachi.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Amber G. » 18 May 2011 21:17

Sorry, if already posted..
( Ehh and Dee,.. botox.. and body language ....)
Image
Image
Last edited by Amber G. on 18 May 2011 21:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby anupmisra » 18 May 2011 21:18

Pakistani footballers break into international scene
Yahoooo!! Yipeeee! ...Er, where? Brazil? Italy? England? Germany?

Two Pakistani footballers have become the first two footballers in over four decades to accept offers to play in foreign football leagues.

Nope!
two-month loan contracts with Saraswoti Youth Club (SYC) of Nepal

And, oh, the irony! "Saraswati Club".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Amber G. » 18 May 2011 21:20

:rotfl: ^^^^

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ramana » 18 May 2011 21:34

Lalmohan wrote:thats when people are most vulnerable, with the least protection

Now think about Badmash agreement with Najibullah recounted by MKB in the Af-Pak thread!

The modus operandi is neogtiate a truce of safe passage and murder you while you keep your part of the agreement.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby anupmisra » 18 May 2011 21:36

Amber G. wrote:Sorry, if already posted..
( Ehh and Dee,.. botox.. and body language ....)


Here are some more. Watch the submissive body language of the paki leadership in these images.

Image

Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby CRamS » 18 May 2011 22:22

You guys know I am not big fan of the useless hot air mouthpiece US media, and certainly have contempt for supercilious bimbos like Maureen Dowd of NYT. But boy I don't mind a little pleasure as she rips TSP's etch&dee a tad while talking about IMF chief's rape allegation.


Strauss-Kahn’s French defenders are throwing around nutty conspiracy theories, sounding like the Pakistanis about Osama.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby anupmisra » 18 May 2011 22:32

Asia Society: Pakistan 2020: Major New Report Outlines Steps to Stability

Published today. Link has more details, but briefly:

..a report released May 18 by the Asia Society Pakistan 2020 Study Group..

According to a report released May 18 by the Asia Society Pakistan 2020 Study Group, this commitment must be enshrined in a comprehensive package of policies aimed at promoting sustainable constitutional democracy, credible and effective rule of law and law enforcement, a significant expansion and improvement of the education and health sectors, and a peaceful resolution of the conflict with India. Economic growth and foreign investment in Pakistan arguably will follow such progress.


BTW, the 31 person group includes (now you know why Ms. Fair is making all those noises):

Hassan Abbas, Bernard Schwartz Fellow, Asia Society
Samina Ahmed, South Asia Project Director, International Crisis Group
Graham Allison, Director, Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, Harvard University
Peter Bergen, Journalist; Director, National Security Studies Program, New America Foundation
Christopher Candland, Associate Professor of Political Science, Wellesley College
Stephen Cohen, Senior Fellow for Foreign Policy Studies, 21st Century Defense Initiative, Brookings Institution
Suzanne DiMaggio, Vice President, Global Policy Programs, Asia Society
Asad Durrani, Lieutenant General (Ret.), Pakistan Military, and Former Director General of Inter-Services Intelligence; Former Pakistan Ambassador to Germany and Saudi Arabia
C. Christine Fair, Assistant Professor, Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service, Georgetown University
Asher Hasan, Founder and CEO, Naya Jeevan
Andrew Hess, Professor of Diplomacy and Director, Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University
Pervez Hoodbhoy, Chairman and Professor, Department of Physics, Quaid-i-Azam University
Mir Ibrahim, Founder and CEO, Geo TV
Asma Jahangir, President, Supreme Court Bar Association of Pakistan
Jehangir Karamat, General (Ret.) and Former Chief of Pakistan Army; CEO, Spearhead Research Institute
William Milam, Senior Policy Scholar, Wilson International Center for Scholars; Former U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan
Adil Najam, Director, Frederick S. Pardee Center for the Study of the Longer-Range Future, Boston University
Nigar Nazar, Cartoonist; CEO, Gogi Studios Ltd.
John D. Negroponte, Vice Chairman, McLarty Associates; Former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State
Sania Nishtar, Founder and President, Heartfile
Amir Rana, Director, Pakistan Institute for Peace Studies
Ahmed Rashid, Journalist and Author; Former Correspondent, Far Eastern Economic Review
Eric Rosenbach, Faculty Affiliate, Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, Harvard University
Babar Sattar, Founding Partner, AJURIS Advocates and Corporate Consultants
Ayesha Siddiqa, Political Analyst; Author, Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy
Shirin Tahir-Kheli, Former Senior Director for Democracy & Human Rights, U.S. National Security Council
Frank Wisner, Former U.S. Ambassador to India and U.S. Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Moeed Yusuf, South Asia Advisor, Center for Conflict Prevention and Analysis, United States Institute of Peace
Mariam Abou Zahab, Lecturer, Institut National des Langues et Civilisations Orientales
Mosharraf Zaidi, Columnist, The News; Policy Analyst
Nasim Zehra, Director, Current Affairs, and Host, Policy Matters, Dunya TV

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Sam » 18 May 2011 22:36


ramana
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ramana » 18 May 2011 22:38

Looks like a gang of charlatans. All are known KDs.

Not one Indian orign name and they want India to settle with TSP?

I guess Uneven Cohen represented Indian interests!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Sam » 18 May 2011 22:43

ramana wrote:Looks like a gang of charlatans. All are known KDs.
Not one Indian orign name and they want India to settle with TSP?
I guess Uneven Cohen represented Indian interests!


Wonder how many of these names Pakistan has bought with US tax payer dollars?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ramana » 18 May 2011 22:46

Most of them. They all are on stipend at US intitutes!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby RSoami » 18 May 2011 22:51

Thankyou very much for the photos.
The Pakistanis are simpering like idiots.
haha
This is worthy of BENIS dhaga
Regards

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby CRamS » 18 May 2011 22:52

ramana:

This is the kind of maneuvering we need to watch for: the extent to which subtle pressure is applied on India to ease TSP's etch&dee. This narcotic that the so called "India card" can be played with TSP still seems to be on the table despite TSP's perfidy so glaringly exposed. It would be a monumental loss of opportunity on the part of India should TSP and its India-hating sympathizers in US deftly maneuver to restore TSP's parity with India post OBL. While I support the Chankayan strategy that India should just sit by and watch the fun and not give TSP any opportunity to up the ante with India, at the same time, India should not be a mute spectator as its interests are sold down the Indus river. The most diabolical machination being hatched is that India must acceede to TSP's demands in Kashmir as a way out of the lock jam between TSP and US. Thats what Fair bimbo, Peter Bergen, Uneven etc will peddle.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ramana » 18 May 2011 22:53

Yet they let the pictures be released. Maybe they are pleased with themselves.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Sudip » 19 May 2011 00:04

Pakistani Workers' Land Of Opportunity: Afghanistan?

It may be a sign of economic and political instability in neighboring Pakistan that manual laborers are sneaking across into Afghanistan, where wages are double and, in some cases, security is better.


Enya Atullah, an Afghan working on the precarious fourth floor of a new building, says he knows Pakistani day laborers will do his job for less.

They've ruined our work, Atullah says in Pashto. He says he doesn't make enough because he has to compete with Pakistani laborers, and he hopes the government will come up with a policy to stop them from coming into the country.


Of course, Afghan contractors don't mind the migrants, according to one businessman who gave his name only as Amin. Pakistani laborers will work day or night for about half the price of Afghans.


Things are so bad in Pakistan, Azizullha says, that if you get out of the city, there is fear of kidnapping, security is bad and, of course, there are no jobs.

Azizullah says there were foreigners in his home village — by which he probably means al-Qaida and Taliban fighters who cross the border into the Afghan province of Kunar to fight. He says the Pakistani army cleared them out for the most part, but Kabul still feels safer, and he can earn money to support his wife and kids back home.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby kenop » 19 May 2011 00:24

interesting to see Gates say this
The United States has humiliated Pakistan by carrying out with impunity its covert operation in Abbottabad that killed al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, defence secretary Robert Gates said today.

"If I were in Pakistani shoes, I would say I've already paid a price (for terrorist safe havens). I've been humiliated. I've been shown that the Americans can come in here and do this with impunity. I think we have to recognise that they see a cost in that and a price that has been paid," Gates told reporters at a Pentagon news conference.

from
US humiliated Pakistan by carrying out Abbottabad operation: Defence secretary
Looks like a wajib-ul-retraction statement. How many days before it happens?
Oh btw, Mullenji too expressed similar views as Gates in this report.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ramana » 19 May 2011 00:27

Its probably part of bigger speech where he says instead of facing such humliiation the TSPA should have given up OBL without much ado.

But they did!!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby CRamS » 19 May 2011 01:19

ramana wrote:Its probably part of bigger speech where he says instead of facing such humliiation the TSPA should have given up OBL without much ado.

But they did!!!


This is like punching someone on the face and then showing "sympathy" at the humiliation caused and subtly repeating the reasons for the punch. TSP is seething with anger no about it, and BS like this worsens their sense of H&D loss. I love it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Prem » 19 May 2011 01:22

ramana wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:thats when people are most vulnerable, with the least protection

Now think about Badmash agreement with Najibullah recounted by MKB in the Af-Pak thread!

The modus operandi is neogtiate a truce of safe passage and murder you while you keep your part of the agreement.

Saddam Hussein promised he wont kill his own son in laws . Then he ask his cousin to kill them . This way he kept his words and still mudered the husbands of his own daughters.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby A_Gupta » 19 May 2011 01:54

The Asia Society Report on a quick scan does not seem that bad. Most of the improvements, e.g., trade, change in visa rules, Pakistan will not let happen anyway. There are no specific recommendations re: Cashmere. If the recommendations for Pakistan to spend on health, education, environment are followed, the army will have little money (I was wondering if the spending recommendations amount to more than 100% of currentthe Pak. govt budget :). In which case, either they will have to raise more tax revenue (fat chance) or borrow more or get more baksheesh from the 3.5 friends.)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby putnanja » 19 May 2011 02:36

India has done its bit to relieve Pak fears of an attack:Jones

Pakistan has been extremely reluctant to positively respond to friendly gestures from India despite the Manmohan Singh-led government doing ''quite a bit'' to relieve its fears of an Indian attack, a former US national security advisor told lawmakers.

Observing that Pakistan may be making too much noise of a "modest" Indian presence in Afghanistan, former National Security Advisor James Jones said Prime Minister Singh has been "visionary" in taking political risks to defuse tense situations and Pakistanis need to "seize this moment".

"I think India has done quite a bit to relieve the fear that there might be an Indian attack. I think Prime Minister Singh has been visionary and taken political risk in India to do this.

"We've had some benefits in the sense that Pakistan has been able to take some of its forces off the Indian border and bring it over to the west," General (rtd) Jones told US Senators at a Congressional hearing on Pakistan.

Jones, who was Obama's National Security Advisor for nearly two years, said for Pakistanis even a single Indian in Afghanistan can be too much.

"If the Pakistanis can seize this moment and we can pivot in a new direction with more clarity, more precision and more accountability, then something good might come of this. But it's going to be difficult," he said.

Jones said it will take "political courage and military support of that political courage" to recognise that there is a better way with regard to India.

"But so far they have been extremely reluctant and in some cases resistant to grasping that opportunity," he said.

Responding to a question from Senator Chris Coons, Jones said the Indian presence in Afghanistan is modest.

"But from the way I've come to understand Pakistan's view with regard to India, one Indian would be too much in Afghanistan. So there's no way to satisfy that, except to continue to be a good interlocutor between India and Pakistan," he observed.

Senator Richard Lugar, Ranking Republican of the Committee, said India-Pakistan relationship is clearly at the heart of the problem.

The Obama Administration, Jones said, has tried to play an indirect role in defusing tensions and carrying messages back and forth, and encouraging foreign ministers to meet.

"I think Prime Minister Singh deserves a lot of credit for taking a political risk in his own country to show a more reasonable side in terms of this issue, by working to defuse tensions along the border. He showed great restraint after the Mumbai attack," he said.

Jones said the situation in region presents some unique challenges, but it also provides unique opportunities.

"I think that this is one problem that the Pakistanis will have to think very hard about as they decide how they want to play in this regional situation that they find themselves in the centre of on both sides.

India, he observed, stepped up during the floods and offered USD 25 million worth aid "and would have done more if they'd been properly thanked and there had been a reciprocal gesture of goodwill".

Senator John Kerry, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, who has just returned from Islamabad, said Pakistan is careful to not over commit to doing anything in Afghanistan, because of the India factor.

"Unfortunately, their concern with India has something to do with Afghanistan. If you're looking at it a little bit through their eyes, you're a little bit worried perhaps that you have India to their east, Afghanistan to the West.

"And an Indian presence in Afghanistan just incites their fears for the long-term future," he said.
:roll:

Jones said in 2009, when Obama assumed the presidency and turned his attention to the region, th US opted to consider more of a strategic approach.

"Instead of dealing with the three countries -- India, Pakistan and Afghanistan -- separately, it became clear that increasingly we couldn't talk about Afghanistan without talking about Pakistan and vice-versa, simply because of the border and the safe havens," he said.

"We adopted and, I thought, did a pretty good job in consulting with both the civilian and military leadership in all three countries, to include India.

"We put together the elements of a long-term strategic partnership plan with all three countries. We emphasised in this partnership that there would be three main pillars to it: the security pillar, an economic pillar, and governance and rule of law pillar, particularly for Afghanistan and Pakistan," he said.

He said among the goals laid out for the region was for Pakistan to shun terrorism.


"For Pakistan it was, from our viewpoint, a fairly straightforward request of renouncing terrorism as an instrument of foreign policy and to be able to show a willingness to move, in due time and within means and capabilities, against other safe havens and terrorist networks in their country," he said.

He noted that the Obama administration has spent a lot of time trying to help the Indo-Pak relationship following the Mumbai attack.

"Obviously (we were) very concerned that another attack might happen and, if such an attack took place, particularly on Indian soil, it would be very difficult to control the reaction of India," he said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Mahendra » 19 May 2011 03:12

If you're looking at it a little bit through their eyes, you're a little bit worried perhaps


Ah Sinnator Kerry! if you look at things using PAwki eyes, you can justify a load of things including the wiring of 100,000 dollahs to Mohammed Wheat Powder and perhaps even nau-gyaraah. Try selling that to your congress and if you can't then stick a bamboo up where the sun doesn't shine

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ranjbe » 19 May 2011 03:20

Perhaps BRF'tes should treat the statements from Unevens, Unfairs, etc. with benign neglect - they mean very little in the larger scheme of things. India has on the whole, done a wonderful job of protecting its interest and maintaining its integrity, even during the dire days of the late 60's when famine was looming.
India has never allowed the USSR (or now the USA) to build bases on Indian soil. Look at the the 50+ allies of USA which indeed have allowed US bases. This includes the biggest whore of them all TSP, which has US bases, Saudi/GCC bases (Shamsi) and Chinese bases (in POK).
I do not believe that a weak MMS Government will give away any territory even in Siachen let alone Kashmir, irrespective of the bleating of foreigners. India gives away territory only after it has won a big war, as IG did after 1971.
Just reflect on the fact that India and China are countries with monster demographics (both with populations 4 times of the third largest country, USA). If it took 150,000 troops to maintain order in Iraq, it would take 7.2 million troops to maintain an occupation army in India. Do you think the USA can spare 7.2 million troops? Can all of NATO? Can China? Do any of these countries/blocs have 7.2 million soldiers?
It would be a mistake to underestimate India's inherent strengths vis a vis Pakis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby ramana » 19 May 2011 03:21

Looks like a charade to demean India to assauge TSP H&D after the OBL raid.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby kasthuri » 19 May 2011 04:48

ranjbe wrote:India has never allowed the USSR (or now the USA) to build bases on Indian soil. Look at the the 50+ allies of USA which indeed have allowed US bases. This includes the biggest whore of them all TSP, which has US bases, Saudi/GCC bases (Shamsi) and Chinese bases (in POK).


There should be some meaning to what is called "non-alignment", although strictly speaking India doesn't fall under this category!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Cosmo_R » 19 May 2011 05:37

^^^ It would be a mistake to underestimate India's inherent strengths vis a vis Pakis..

No power disputes that. Only the resolve of the Indian leadership to enforce it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Pranav » 19 May 2011 07:32

ramana wrote:Looks like a gang of charlatans. All are known KDs.

Not one Indian orign name and they want India to settle with TSP?

I guess Uneven Cohen represented Indian interests!


When they have meetings about Afghanistan they end up talking about India half the time, but often there is no Indian on the panel.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Anantha » 19 May 2011 07:49

Something has to give to break the current impasse in TSP; to be more precise the relationship between US and TSP (note the = =). One possibility is retirement of Pasha and subsequently Kiyani lamposted, meeting his 72. An American mole in TSP army, or purchased with money could be propped up to become the military figurehead who will report to Zardari with Kayani seving as a balance to Zardari.
The more you think, Shaheedizing Kayani is the best way forward for the free world.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Anantha » 19 May 2011 07:56

Pranav wrote:
ramana wrote:Looks like a gang of charlatans. All are known KDs.

Not one Indian orign name and they want India to settle with TSP?

I guess Uneven Cohen represented Indian interests!


When they have meetings about Afghanistan they end up talking about India half the time, but often there is no Indian on the panel.


As Pranab Mukherji eloquently told the world in the late 90's; we do not subscribe to this Shitty Bitty (CTBT). Same holds true now, only difference is India does not even bother to comment and dignify these clowns masquerading as political analysts.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Rajdeep » 19 May 2011 07:56

kenop wrote:interesting to see Gates say this
The United States has humiliated Pakistan by carrying out with impunity its covert operation in Abbottabad that killed al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, defence secretary Robert Gates said today.

"If I were in Pakistani shoes, I would say I've already paid a price (for terrorist safe havens). I've been humiliated. I've been shown that the Americans can come in here and do this with impunity. I think we have to recognise that they see a cost in that and a price that has been paid," Gates told reporters at a Pentagon news conference.

from
US humiliated Pakistan by carrying out Abbottabad operation: Defence secretary
Looks like a wajib-ul-retraction statement. How many days before it happens?
Oh btw, Mullenji too expressed similar views as Gates in this report.


This also means that they have already paid the price so dont cut their aid. Its a subtle way of exonerating them of their crime saying they have already been punished. Not a good sign I feel.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby abhishek_sharma » 19 May 2011 09:24

Daily brief: Pakistani intel pressures Haqqanis to negotiate: report

The Journal reports that Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) is prodding the insurgent Haqqani network into peace talks with the Afghan government, resisting U.S. pressure to go after the group's strongholds in North Waziristan (WSJ). U.S. officials consider the Haqqanis one of Afghanistan's most violent and effective insurgent groups, and the increased efforts to target the Haqqanis, including drone strikes and concern about a cross-border raid, reportedly led worried Haqqani members to vacate their compounds in the North Waziristan capital of Miram Shah in the wake of the U.S. operation that killed Osama bin Laden.

Afghan news sources also report that the ISI, working through current operatives or former director Hamid Gul, asked Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar to leave Pakistan for Afghanistan or a third country in recent days (Pajhwok, Tolo).



Bin Laden's death and the al Qaeda debates, part three

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Vikas » 19 May 2011 10:07

Pakistan is a really a confusing country. Some time back Taliban was on the gates of Isloo and then they disbanded as if Isloo was some far away country.
Then there was a "A Brigadiar a day" campaign and again it fizzled out.
You had players scoring centuries in Punjab province and now we hardly have big'uns on Jumma day. Now they are propping up Haqqani till the poor guy meets his Drone like so many others in the past.
We had never ending stream of Al-keeda# 3.1 being arrested almost coinciding with every visit of Khan till A-Q dissolved the position itself.
I bet even Kiya-nahi doesn't understand Pak perfidy and ultimate goals.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby jagga » 19 May 2011 15:03

Attack on Pak will be attack on China: report
In the wake of the US raid in Abbottabad that killed Osama bin Laden, China has "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China", a media report claimed today. The warning was formally conveyed by the Chinese foreign minister at last week's China-US strategic dialogue and economic talks in Washington, The News daily quoted diplomatic sources as saying. China also advised the US to "respect Pakistan's sovereignty and solidarity", the report said.Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao informed his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani about the matters taken up with the US during their formal talks at the Great Hall of the People yesterday.The report said China "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China".


The two premiers held a 45-minute one-to-one meeting before beginning talks with their delegations.The Chinese leadership was "extremely forthcoming in assuring its unprecedented support to Pakistan for its national cause and security" and discussed all subjects of mutual interest with Gilani, the report said.Gilani described Pakistan-China relations and friendship as "unique"."China supported Pakistan's cause on its own accord," Gilani said with reference to the Sino-US strategic dialogue where the Chinese told the US that Pakistan should be helped and its national honour respected.Gilani said China has asked the US to improve its relations with Pakistan, keeping in view the present scenario.


It was also agreed that both countries will formulate a long-term joint energy mechanism for electricity generation in Pakistan through various means, including nuclear energy.


Wen announced that the Chinese leadership will send a special envoy to Islamabad to express solidarity with Pakistan at this "crucial period in its history". [/b]Pakistan has turned to China, its "all weather friend", for support in the face of reports that US lawmakers are pressing for cuts in aid.


China has agreed to provide Pakistan 50 new JF-17 Thunder multi-role jets under a co-production agreement, The News reported. It is likely that these planes will be supplied by June next year. The two countries are also discussing the supply of Chinese J-20 stealth jets and Xiaolong/FC-1 multi-purpose light fighter aircraft to Pakistan.


China will also launch a satellite for Pakistan on August 14. The satellite will supply "multifarious data" to Pakistan, the report said.Prime Minister Gilani said both sides had agreed to increase defence cooperation and China had assured Pakistan of help in enhancing the capacity of its armed forces.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby shiv » 19 May 2011 15:28


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Lalmohan » 19 May 2011 15:53

thats an india centric statement at best and a salwar shiver in general

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Ambar » 19 May 2011 16:01

Utter rubbish! China loves its money way more than its "love" for the Pakis. In case of an all out India-Pak war, China wouldn't wage a war against India let alone go to war with the US to save Pak. With over 66% of chinese economy dependent on exports, they have to be utterly stupid to throw it all away for a 2-bit wh0re. If anything, they'll continue to arm pakis to the teeth through their ding-dong missiles (painted in metallic green ofcourse!) and bandars and nothing else.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby Samudragupta » 19 May 2011 16:10

shiv wrote:

Hot air


Pakistan expecting an war????An invasion against whom it cannot hold on??? Or it is preparing for some offensive????but who...US/India/Iran/AQ??

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 201

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2011 16:35

Johann wrote:S Sridhar,

A couple of thoughts in response to your piece.

- The LeT is a very long way from getting to the position where it might act independently from the PA brass.

Johann, I didn't say that too. All I said was that there exists a lot of contacts among the top leadership of the three dozen Pakistani terrorist tanzeems, the Islamists of various hues and colours in Pakistan and the Afghan Taliban and Al Qaeda and this goes a long way back. OBL generously funded the Muridke facility of LeT. The AQAM killed Sq. Ldr. Khalid Khwaja after making him accuse LeT of being pro-Pakistani Government. At the same time, LeT cadres have been found to be involved in Iraq, Al Qaeda's Abu Zubaydah & Abu Farraj al Libbi were arrested from LeT safehouses, LeT has trained the Indonesia-based Jemmah Islamiyah (JI) as well as the Philippine-based Abu Sayyaf in camps in Pakistan and Kashmir, Lodhi & Brigitte arrested in Sydney were LeT operatives and LeT operatives have been arrested in Spain, Thailand and other places on terrorism-related charges for helping Al Qaeda. Many nationalities, including Canadians, Aussies, Americans and Chinese have been trained by LeT. There is recognition today that along with AQAM, LeT is equally to be concerned with. This would mean that either PA is supporting & directing LeT's evolving worldwide ambitions or PA does not effectively control that organization or PA may just control LeT for India-related operations leaving other theatres of LeT's operations more or less to its own decision. The third scenario is most likely, IMO, because PA is no longer needed to maintain 'plausible deniability'. Those days are over as everybody recognizes the nexus between the PA and terror and some even sympathize with the PA for using non-state actors in an asymmetric relationship with a much larger India which refuses to recognize Pakistani paranoia. As a Tamil saying goes, once you are completely wet, why cover up anymore ? I tend to believe therefore that the LeT has two operational divisions, one dealing exclusively with India and under the control of the PA/ISI while the International division may be relatively autonomous because PA still needs 'plausible deniability' when dealing with non-Indian targets.

- My understanding is that the most common kind of Islamism in the PA, especially in the junior officer corps is the Islamic nationalism of Zia that is personified by Hamid Gul and Aslam Beg. These people aren't beards, and they haven't given their allegiance to any particular tanzeem. What they really get worked up about is the idea of Pakistan, and the PA in particular as the sword arm of Islam.

They both gave their allegiance to defend OBL in the January 9, 2001 Deobandi conference organized by Maulana Sami-ul-Haq at Peshawar. They declared OBL as a great hero and vowed to protect him. That was eight months before 9/11. Subsequent events have only made them more steadfast in their outlook as one can glean from their op-eds, interviews etc.

Be that as it may, the utterances and actions of both Gul & Beg portray them as much more than mere nationalists. The Idea of Pakistan itself has morphed so much that today it is enmeshed in global jihad. Of course, the base still remains hatred for the kafir Indians and to that extent one can call these non-bearded jihadists as nationalists, but it does not end there. What started off as 'thousand cuts to bleed India' would not merely stop with India, just as jihad against the USSR did not stop there but has engulfed the whole world today. Gul and Osama became close friends. When questioned at the end of Afghan jihad in c. 1989 about the fate of foreign mujahideen, Gul reportedly said, "If the West can have a NATO, why not a multi-ethnic mujahideen force for Muslims ?" Of course, Gul introduced these multi-ethnic wahhabi mercenaries into J&K after 1989, but there is reason to believe that his plans also extended to the US. Ms. Bhutto has admitted that during her tenure top Pakistani generals wanted to fight the Americans. The two top Generals during her regime were Aslam Beg and Hamid Gul and one can surmise she was indeed referring to them. The duo's hatred of the USA equals their hatred for India. Once the US becomes such a visceral enemy of a powerful Islamist with deep connections and who had been in the spy-business for some time, it strains one's credulity to suppose that they were mere nationalists and not involved in wider operations. Indeed that is the beauty of Islamism as it quickly transcends borders and narrow regional considerations.


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