Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

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Vivek_A
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Vivek_A »

Former paki brigadier and op-ed writer in the nutty nation provides today's dose of "it's the jooos" comedy...with a sprinkling of "it's the gayz"...

Criminal Zionist designs at work
By A. R. Jerral | Published: July 30, 2011
The USA has become the hub of gay and lesbians rights; President Barak Hussain Obama on May 31, 2011, made a GLBT proclamation: “We rededicate ourselves to the pursuit of equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.” The American society has become liberal in moral behaviour thanks to sustained and concerted drive by the Zionist planners. President Obama maybe a powerful ruler of the superpower of the world, but in the words of Benjamin Disraeli, a baptised Jew: “The world is governed by different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.” He wrote these words in 1844 almost the same time the Jewish Protocols were drafted by the Elders of the Zion of 33rd Degree. In 1970, someone gave me a booklet which was a bad translation in English, but two aspects stood out; it was a scheme for the world domination and it called for the reduction of all mankind, except the Jews to the status of goyim – meaning cattle or beast. Google lays out all 20 protocols in vivid details and the underlying objective of the Elders of the Zion. The Jews call all other human races gentiles and in their perception all are ‘stupid’ and ‘cattle’ (P-15). Protocol 14 calls for “changing all that constitutes the true good of humanity”, and Protocol 17 asks to “destroy the clergy by discrediting the priesthood of the goyim.” These statements directly indicate plans to alter human moral code to reduce them to the status of goyim or cattle.

By about the middle of 19th century, the Zionist Elders had realised that the New World had the potential of becoming the world leader that they can manipulate for their political agenda. They had to shift the political, military, economic and financial centre of strength to the new world. William Guy Carr maintains that the Zionist Elders manipulated the American Revolution, the Civil War and the two world wars to achieve this end. America by the middle of 20th century had become a superpower whose political and financial prowess was fully in the Jewish hands and still is. Having achieved the politico-financial supremacy in the new world, they set about to destroy the moral values of the gentiles as planned in their Protocols. For example, Hugh Hefner, who published the first sleazy magazine Playboy in the USA with nude female photos propagating free sex philosophy, is a Jew. This magazine and many who followed have destroyed the moral foundations of the USA and the West. This free sex philosophy attacks the basic unit of the society - the family.

The writer is a retired brigadier and political analyst.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Fidel Guevara »

hnair wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote: One expert one trainee!
True. Slick Willie would be the first to agree his wife is indeed a trainee :oops:
Bad timing on the part of the Pakis. Should have had the likes of Hina Randi-Ghar while Willie was POTUS. Why stop at being the figurative whore, be one literally.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by gakakkad »

>>> Former paki brigadier and op-ed writer in the nutty nation provides today's dose of "it's the jooos" comedy...with a sprinkling of "it's the gayz"...

Criminal Zionist designs at work
By A. R. Jerral | Published: July 30, 2011


Something tells me there is a huge market for antipsychotics in Yoyoland . So Hugh Hefner is the behind the scenes ruler of Khanland . This is a classic gem . So it seems that Disraeli in 1844 predicted that TSP would exist in the future and prove to be a "great challenge" to the Joos . There is BENIS material in this article to last for a 72 pages. :)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Fidel Guevara »

[quote="Jarita"]OK. This gets worse.
Have you seen Hina whatevers photos with Holbrooke. Shame! <snip>

this is NOT the place. post these type of comments in BENIS.
Rahu.
Last edited by Rahul M on 31 Jul 2011 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added comment.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Pakistan torturing Balochistan activists
Hundreds of political activists are being held and tortured by security forces in the Pakistani province of Balochistan, Human Rights Watch says.
The region is currently the centre of an insurgency by local tribesmen fighting for greater political rights.
Source:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14321389
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by menon s »

^^^ Hina Rabbani khar and fidel post, do we need to stoop to sexist comments against Pakistan to this degree, come on guys, we can be better.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by jrjrao »

Assphuck and Pasha taking it to the next level. Perhaps hoping to relieve some pressure:

Pakistan puts travel curbs on U.S. diplomats
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by RamaY »

gakakkad wrote:^^^ What would transport her to krachi before the missile reaches there? For most missiles its a matter of minutes to reach Paki land. DJinn fizziks technology maybe. Ultimate proof of her crossing over to pakiland. TSP would never transfer djinn technology to an Yindian :lol: :evil: :evil:
Since she cannot go faster than the injun missile, I propose she moves to parkland now itself and await Indian Pathaka. Sooner or later it is gonna arrive Paki lands.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

Pakistani troops aid Bahrain's crackdown
Foundation linked to the Pakistani army has been providing Bahrain thousands of soldiers for its crackdown on protests.

Mujib Mashal Last Modified: 30 Jul 2011 15:31

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/fe ... 74888.html

In March, as a government crackdown on pro-democracy protestors intensified in Bahrain, curious advertisements started appearing in Pakistani media.

"Urgent requirement - manpower for Bahrain National Guard," said one.

<snip>

On the ground in Pakistan, the recruitments were handled by the Fauji Foundation, one of the largest conglomerates in the country with close ties to the Pakistani military. In addition to the Overseas Employment Services, which is tasked with providing job opportunities for retired military personnel, the foundation owns large cereal and gas companies, sugar mills, security firms, as well as hospitals and universities.

<snip>

Inside Bahrain, the recruitments have brought dangers to the South Asian diaspora, where ill-feeling towards Pakistanis has increased, reportedly because they are seen as the main vehicle in the crackdown.

The influx of Sunni mercenaries has also increased fears that the government might be naturalising the new recruits in its efforts to change the country's Shia-majority demographic.

<snip>

"Potential need for foreign troops in case protests spiral out of control has forced Saudis to work with current Pakistani civilian government for whom they have nothing but utter contempt," said Hussain.

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Reza Gilani told Prince Bandar that his country supported the Saudi stance in the Gulf and the Middle East and would stand by Riyadh for regional peace, according to Pakistani media.

Al Jazeera's Fault Lines examines why the US supports protests in Libya - but not in Bahrain

"The president and prime minister of Pakistan, faced with grim economic situation of the country and army brass uncertain about continued US funding, are delighted at the potential of a cash windfall from Saudi patrons," said Hussain.

<snip>

Baluchistan, where most of the recruits come from, is a province of six million in Pakistan's southwest. For decades, an armed movement for self-determination there has been met with a severe government crackdown.

Baluch nationalist fighters expressed their dismay at the recruitment long before the recent escalation.

"We call upon the Baluch nation not to become part of any tyrant or oppressive army, at a time when the Baluch nation is living in a state of war … and are struggling against the tyrants ourselves," Basham Baluch, a spokesman for Baluch Liberation Front said in a 2009 statement.

"Instead of turning the young Baluch into hired killers, they should join the national armies [Baluch Liberation Front, Baluchistan Liberation Army] to make the independence of their homeland a reality.

"We do not want the Baluch people to be used and turned into mercenaries."

<snip>


READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE HERE ==>> http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/fe ... 74888.html
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by anupmisra »

Radical Muslim jailed for calling for jihad against MPs

You can take a paki out of pakiland but you can't take his pakiness out of him.
An IT graduate who wrote messages on an Islamic extremist website calling on Muslims to "raise the knife of jihad" and attack and kill British MPs who voted in favour of the war in Iraq has been jailed for 12 years.
Bilal Zaheer Ahmad, 24, posted the threats on the US-based RevolutionMuslim.com website.
Ahmad, who worked for an insurance company in Telford, Shropshire, also posted a link to the Tesco website listing cheap knives, urging would-be fanatics to use them to carry out attacks.
Jailing him for 12 years, with an additional five years' extended period on licence, Mr Justice Royce said: "You became a viper in our midst willing to go as far as possible to strike at the heart of our system."
Ahmad, who holds British and Pakistani passports, had purported to be a British citizen, said Royce. "But what you stand for is totally alien to what we stand for in our country." He added that his views were "corrosively dangerous".
On arrest, Ahmad confessed responsibility for the posting. He said: "I shouldn't have let my emotions get away from me. It was completely irrational. It was tongue in cheek, I'm not in a cell or anything like that."
he recorded a video saying: "My message to the West. You are all going to die."
Well, for the next twelve years Ahmad is going to get a one-on-one taste of "tongue in cheek" in his new abode.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Mahendra »

I'm sure you mean tongue in musharaff cheek
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Prem »

Mahendra wrote:I'm sure you mean tongue in musharaff cheek
The young Poak need to see the nearest Pir of Peshawar to share the Palang Tor sweet from Lahor.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by anupmisra »

CIA’s Pakistan chief leaves country
The CIA’s Islamabad station chief, who oversaw the intelligence team that uncovered Osama bin Laden’s hideout, has left Pakistan for medical reasons, a US official said.
“Most people will agree the officer’s role in one of the greatest intelligence victories of all time means this person was pretty darn effective, no matter what the Pakistanis may think.
It was the second such departure in seven months from the post, after his predecessor was forced to leave when a Pakistani official admitted his name had been leaked.
“Pakistan has been harassing US personnel working in the country for months,” a US official told ABC. A Pakistani intelligence official, meanwhile, said “there is no trust.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Airavat »

ISI threatens retaliation if 26/11 lawsuit continues
Kevin Walsh, a lawyer representing Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, urged a judge to throw out the lawsuit - filed last year by relatives of New Yorkers murdered in a Hasidic center during the 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai, India. "The consequences of this judicial inquiry have the potential to be disastrous," Walsh argued in a letter filed Friday with a federal judge. "The intrusion of these actions into the politics of Pakistan will fuel violence and extremism, directed against the government the US intends to support," the attorney argues.

The suit was filed by relatives of Gavriel Noah Holtzberg, a rabbi originally from Brooklyn, and his pregnant wife, Rivka, who were gunned down when terrorists stormed the Chabad Lubavitch center in a commando-style attack that also killed the couple’s unborn child. The Holtzberg’s 2 year-old son survived the attack after being rescued by an employee. He now lives with his grandfather in Israel. The lawsuit asked for unspecified damages and cites claims that the ISI has worked closely with the Lashkar-e-Taiba terror group.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shiv »

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The criminal makes dire threats if action is taken to nab him! What a bunch of losers
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by anupmisra »

shiv wrote:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The criminal makes dire threats if action is taken to nab him! What a bunch of losers
The bigger losers will be the plaintiffs if they withdraw the suit because of implied threats. I am going to sit back and enjoy this.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Rajdeep »

There is only one precedent in such a kind of case (atleast from what I have read, someone could correct if i am wrong) and that is the Libya case of the Lockerbee bombing where they had to pay $8 million to each family , a total which came to $2.16 billion for 270 murders.

But the question is - have the US - Pak relations soured so much that the US would allow this public humiliation of the poaks ?
Because how ever one might say that the courts are independent of the Govt. we all know that that's not the case in reality. As seen from the release of the accused killer being released by UK courts after some back channel deal the UK and Gaddafi came to arrange.

Don't you think that we are setting our hopes too high by expecting that something worthwhile will come out of this ?
At the most we can expect a PR disaster for the poaks in USA where avg joe , if he is not yet aware of paki perfidy, will be made aware of it .
But the terrorist institutions of pak govt and the so called non state piglets will survive to kill another day.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by sum »

menon s wrote:^^^ Hina Rabbani khar and fidel post, do we need to stoop to sexist comments against Pakistan to this degree, come on guys, we can be better.
We = Pakis or We= born Indians but Pakis at heart?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by menon s »

^^^ ha lets bury the hatchet please.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by sum »

<OT for this thread>
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by r_subramanian »

The killings in Karachi continue. The report below appears in today's online edition of Daily Times.
Bloodshed continues in Karachi, 16 killed
...
Intense firing ensued in the areas and rival ethnic groups started tossing hand grenades and bullets at each other.
...
link
Does the fact that grenades were being used (there was a report a few days back that mortars were being fired) indicate that various groups (MQM, ANP, PPP etc.) have lost control over their private militias in Karachi? I am wondering if this is similar to the Establishment losing control over its jihadi groups.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by menon s »

Sorry if posted earlier, this post is by Ejaz haider.
India is the revisionist Power!
http://tribune.com.pk/story/219335/indi ... ist-power/

This guy ultimately made a fool of himself.
The ragtag Poonchis and other Kashmiri groups, with help from tribesmen and some elements of the Pakistani military, managed to capture the territory which now forms Azad Kashmir.
Thats his explanation for 48 war!
The 1965 war was a mistake. Much has been written about it inside Pakistan. But there is absolutely no reason to be apologetic about making an armed attempt to get back territory in occupation of an adversary. Pakistan never violated the Indian territory: It crossed what was then the CFL (ceasefire line).
That episode also opens the chapter in this region of covert war. Yes, it was introduced by India when it trained the Mukti Bahini; India repeated this exercise with Sri Lanka when it trained the LTTE. I don’t grudge India any of its actions. States do these things in their interests, perceived or real. But to present India as the babe in the wood? Nah; not happening.
so India is the father of covert war in the sub continent!
Of course there is Kargil in 1999. More of us have blasted Kargil here, including this writer, than perhaps writers in India. It was a terrible operation at all levels. Worse, it came at a time when Pakistan and India were moving towards normalisation. That process should have been allowed to move forward and bear fruit. But let us not forget India’s occupation of the Saltoro Range, its violation of Pakistani posts along the LoC. In a conflictual model these things happen. Yet I will be the first to deduct marks from the Pakistani military on the Kargil operation. Still, the man who did it also became India’s best partner in peace.
the guy who supports 65 war, contradicts 99! Going by his argument whats wrong with Kargil!
Pakistan wants peace. But it doesn’t want to become a west Bangladesh, to use Stephen Cohen’s phrase. So, let’s get rid of the I-am-the-good-guy-here baloney and level with each other.
so when did Pakistanis start thinking that they r inferior to bangladeshis!

If this is the standard of so called liberal Pakistanis in Express Tribune, on of the most liberal news papers in that country, one has to agree what Shahsi Tharoor said is true.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Pakistan national Bilal Zaheer Ahmad sentenced to a 12 year jail term for indulging in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s hobby of Islamic Terrorism:
Radical Muslim jailed for calling for jihad against MPs

Judge describes Bilal Zaheer Ahmad as a viper in our midst before jailing him for 12 years for threats on websites

Caroline Davies
guardian.co.uk, Friday 29 July 2011 20.08 BST

An IT graduate who wrote messages on an Islamic extremist website calling on Muslims to "raise the knife of jihad" and attack and kill British MPs who voted in favour of the war in Iraq has been jailed for 12 years.

Bilal Zaheer Ahmad, 24, posted the threats on the US-based RevolutionMuslim.com website with a full list of all MPs who had voted in the House of Commons in favour of the war and links providing personal contact details.

He called on them to emulate Roshonara Choudhry, who had attempted to murder the Labour MP Stephen Timms with a knife at his East Ham constituency surgery six months previously, Bristol crown court heard.

Ahmad, who worked for an insurance company in Telford, Shropshire, also posted a link to the Tesco website listing cheap knives, urging would-be fanatics to use them to carry out attacks.

Jailing him for 12 years, with an additional five years' extended period on licence, Mr Justice Royce said: "You became a viper in our midst willing to go as far as possible to strike at the heart of our system."

Ahmad, who holds British and Pakistani passports, had purported to be a British citizen, said Royce. "But what you stand for is totally alien to what we stand for in our country." He added that his views were "corrosively dangerous"………………………….

Guardian
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by arun »

X Posted from the "Baluchistan : The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide" thread.

The Punjabi dominated security forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan persist with their pogrom targeting their fellow Mohammadden co-religionists, the Baloch:

Balochistan kidnappings: Two bodies found near Makran Coastal Highway
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by arun »

X Posted from the “J&K News and Discussions 2011” thread.

Separatist Syed Ali Shah Geelani demands separation of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
Issue Date: Sunday , July 31 , 2011

Geelani shocker for Hina - Separatist extends self-determination call to cover PoK

SANKARSHAN THAKUR

New Delhi, July 30: For all of New Delhi’s unhappiness over Pakistani foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar hosting Hurriyat leaders during her visit, the interaction might have offered Islamabad greater cause for concern.

The spearhead of Kashmiri secession, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, left Khar and her delegates a little stumped by demanding, for the first time, that the self-determination exercise should include areas under Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) as well. ……………………………..

Geelani confirmed to The Telegraph that he had indeed spoken of the “entirety of Kashmir as it existed before August 14, 1947” during talks with Khar, but made out as if he hadn’t popped anything new on the table.

“I have always spoken of the rights of Kashmiri people in the entire region of Jammu and Kashmir as it stood on or before August 14, 1947, and that is what I told the visitors from Pakistan,” Geelani said over telephone from Srinagar. He would not say how his position was received bar repeat the stated position that Pakistan “supports our struggle politically, morally and materially”. ……………………………

Telegraph
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... 27294.aspx
4 terrorists, including two suicide bombers, arrested in Pak

Pakistani police have arrested four terrorists, including two suicide bombers, near the federal capital and recovered two suicide jackets from them, officials said.

Islamabad police chief Binyameen said that the police had arrested one of the four suspects last week and during
interrogation, he had confessed to his links with a terrorist outfit active in North Waziristan tribal region.

The police chief said that during interrogation, he disclosed that they were four in number and had shifted to Islamabad to hit vital installations and main personalities of the ruling party.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by abhijitm »

A_Gupta wrote:Pakistani police have arrested four terrorists, including two suicide bombers, near the federal capital and recovered two suicide jackets from them, officials said.
pakistan's record of capturing miscreants is so pathetic that this news is hardly believable. Someone out there is settling personal score or is this another PR exercise?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by gakakkad »

^^^ The above story is hardly believable. Suicide bombers caught alive wearing a soosai vest . Sirrendering instead of blowing themsleves up when paalice came to arrest em. Do they seriously believe that the entire world has the majority share of neural tissue in their musharrafs like them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Dipanker »

arun wrote:X Posted from the “J&K News and Discussions 2011” thread.

Separatist Syed Ali Shah Geelani demands separation of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
Issue Date: Sunday , July 31 , 2011

Geelani shocker for Hina - Separatist extends self-determination call to cover PoK

SANKARSHAN THAKUR

New Delhi, July 30: For all of New Delhi’s unhappiness over Pakistani foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar hosting Hurriyat leaders during her visit, the interaction might have offered Islamabad greater cause for concern.

The spearhead of Kashmiri secession, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, left Khar and her delegates a little stumped by demanding, for the first time, that the self-determination exercise should include areas under Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) as well. ……………………………..

Geelani confirmed to The Telegraph that he had indeed spoken of the “entirety of Kashmir as it existed before August 14, 1947” during talks with Khar, but made out as if he hadn’t popped anything new on the table.

“I have always spoken of the rights of Kashmiri people in the entire region of Jammu and Kashmir as it stood on or before August 14, 1947, and that is what I told the visitors from Pakistan,” Geelani said over telephone from Srinagar. He would not say how his position was received bar repeat the stated position that Pakistan “supports our struggle politically, morally and materially”. ……………………………

Telegraph
OTOH this could just "brilliant" thinking on the part of the morons of TSPA/ISI. Instead they should be rather talking about when they want to hand over POK/Gilgit-Baltistan to India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by CRamS »

menon s wrote:
Pakistan wants peace. But it doesn’t want to become a west Bangladesh, to use Stephen Cohen’s phrase. So, let’s get rid of the I-am-the-good-guy-here baloney and level with each other.
so when did Pakistanis start thinking that they r inferior to bangladeshis!

If this is the standard of so called liberal Pakistanis in Express Tribune, on of the most liberal news papers in that country, one has to agree what Shahsi Tharoor said is true.
Yes, Uneven did say that. But to quote someone more distuinguished in my mind, despite Stockholm-syndrome morphing him into a pathetic WKK, it is this kind of talk from bloated ass TSP RAPE types like this Hiader puke, that Jassu bhai remarked TSP punches way above its weight. And part of the arrogance comes from the support TSP gets 3.5 and their spokesman including Uneven. The in your face arrogance also stems from having received no punishment for its crimes against India. So the India TSP bar is indeed at a level where TSP's terrorist crimes are justified becasue TSP doe not want to be a "west Bangladesh" and "India & TSP need to level with each other". Thanks to WKKs like MMS ruling India, and talk of "India & TSP must embrace love" or whatever it is that other WKKs puke, these kinds obnoxious demands from TSP will actually be met because India is running so scared of TSP threat of using its pigLets and nukes.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by KLNMurthy »

CRamS wrote:
... Thanks to WKKs like MMS ruling India, and talk of "India & TSP must embrace love" or whatever it is that other WKKs puke, these kinds obnoxious demands from TSP will actually be met because India is running so scared of TSP threat of using its pigLets and nukes.
May be getting OT but my sense is that Indian attitude towards TSP and pukes is better explained by a driving desire to see themselves as "nice guys" and hyper-civilized "good boys who follow the rules onlee and are generous and accommodating to the enemy" (what I call the prithviraj chauhan syndrome later morphed into the gujral syndrome) than solely by a fear of pigLets and nukes. The latter are a concern, but if we were genuinely and deeply and existentially afraid of pigLets and nukes, we would be pulling out all stops against those eventualities, in the manner of say Israel.

MMS and WKKs may have more resonance with Indian culture and population and its collective piskology than the more hard-nosed attitude seen in BRF.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Dipanker »

CRamS wrote: these kinds obnoxious demands from TSP will actually be met because India is running so scared of TSP threat of using its pigLets and nukes.
Relax! India is not running scared at all. India is on the average converting 300 - 350 PigLeTs to fertilizer every year in Cashmere, and as far as nukes are concerned you did hear what the IAF Chief said about it, "RETALIATION WILL BE EXTREMELY VIOLENT".
menon s
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by menon s »

21 Pakistanis died in Iran due to suffocation, confirms Burney
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... rms-Burney
A very sad way to do die, is to die in an air tight container. So sad. The flight out of puristan in desperate measures has started, eventually.
abhijitm
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by abhijitm »

India to press Pakistan on fugitives
Interestingly, the Indian list of most wanted people also carries the name of Ilyas Kashmiri, who is believed to have been killed in a US drone attack that targeted his hideout in Gowakha village of the Wana area in the South Waziristan tribal area on June 3.

However, Indian authorities believe that true to his reputation of a survivor, Kashmiri might have escaped death once again.
I trust Indian intelligence. Kashmiri IS alive.

----
And BTW rumor is this time the list will be reviewed by the senior level data entry operators. Also as a precautionary measure before giving to pakistan the list will be published in gazettes with a note addressing to those named as:

Dear Terrorist,

If you are not terrorist or already dead or living in India or planning to enter India before 15-Aug-2011, then please inform the Home Ministry with the documented proof by 10th Aug, 2011. Failing to do so you will be assumed to be a terrorist living in pakistan.

For the terrorists living in pakistan please report yourself to the nearest Indian embassy for your immediate travel arrangement to India. We are pleased to declare that we are happy to bear your travel expenses, including the return ticket.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Yours Sincerely,
Ministry of Home Affairs, GoI
:wink:
shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shiv »

Dipanker wrote:
CRamS wrote: these kinds obnoxious demands from TSP will actually be met because India is running so scared of TSP threat of using its pigLets and nukes.
Relax! India is not running scared at all.
Well Dipanker it would be quite stupid not to be scared of terrorists and nukes both sponsored and acquired with the blessings of the only superpower on earth. The view from inside India is that it is better to be scared than stupid. It is OK to be brave about Pakistan if you live somewhere far away - like America. The fear increases my level of safety - although the truth that Indians are afraid of Pakistan is hurtful when it comes in the form of relentless nagging from someone who lives safe and far away. To me it matters little whether a Pakistani nags and mocks Indians for being afraid, or an Indian in the US does the same thing. It feels the same to me. I cannot bring myself to feel animosity towards the Pakistani and love for the Indian for doing the same kind of nagging. But I fear only the Pakistani.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Dipanker »

KLNMurthy wrote: May be getting OT but my sense is that Indian attitude towards TSP and pukes is better explained by a driving desire to see themselves as "nice guys" and hyper-civilized "good boys who follow the rules onlee and are generous and accommodating to the enemy" (what I call the prithviraj chauhan syndrome later morphed into the gujral syndrome) than solely by a fear of pigLets and nukes. The latter are a concern, but if we were genuinely and deeply and existentially afraid of pigLets and nukes, we would be pulling out all stops against those eventualities, in the manner of say Israel.

MMS and WKKs may have more resonance with Indian culture and population and its collective piskology than the more hard-nosed attitude seen in BRF.
All the things you said plus the realization that we are dealing with a Kameena (low-life) country here and we need not respond to each and every provocation least we are dragged down in the mud to their level of discourse.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by jaibhim »

The whole hype generated by the arrival of the decoy, had one benefit for porkroach observers; was to point towards My Feudal lord available in amazon, which spans times from bhutto death episode, the making of RAPE consciousness,stockholm syndrome, the eternal enemy and some insight into the mindset and glaring contradictions in the author's narrative and what it means to have ghairiat and masculinity.
menon s
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by menon s »

Iranian tribal leader, four others shot dead
http://www.dawn.com/2011/07/31/iranian- ... -dead.html
More and more Shias are getting killed in Turbat and Sibi and Quetta, day after day? Hazaras with their visible mongloid features are targeted!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Philip »

"Pak,an ally by any other name".

Gentelmen,remember the good doctor,"Tim Hoyt",with whom we used to fence on BRF a long time ago? Well,the absence of the good doctor from our battling forum is because he is now Prof. of "Strategy and Policy" at the US Naval War College,where he is also co-director o the Indian Ocean Studies Group. Dr.T recd. his "phud" from the Johns Hopkins Univ. Paul Nitze School of Advanced Intl. Studies. Tim has written over "40" books,etc. on S.Asian security and the war on terror in S.Asia.

Now good Doc. Tim has just written a piece on Pak,"Pakistan,an ally by any other name",in the July issue of the USNI Proceedings mag.It echoes much of what we on BR have been saying for aeons.Reading it one gets the feeling that the dear doctor has had an experience similar to that which St.Paul had on the road to Damascus."St.Timothy", seeing the light on the "road to Rawalpindi" has his own conclusions on how to deal with Pak,but first let me give you in brief his viewpoint.

Tim begins by saying that a "re-evaluation" of US strategy in the subcontinent, must take place after the hit on Osama,based upon 3 basic concepts.

*That Pak is much more important than Afghanistan from the standpoint of global threats to US security interests.

*That US and Paki interests are defined by the current elite (no such word as "elites",elite is plural Tim) in Pak,are often in conflict.

*That US leverage over Paki actions is fundamentally limited.

In addition, polls say that public support for the US in Pak is abysmally low,the military dominates everything,supports the Taliban and a range of other "beardies",is building more N-weapons than anyone else and has 100+ already,argues that "Pak is the most difficult partnership the US has tried to deal with since its alliance with the the Soviet Union since WW2."

1.Paki behaviour will change little:

After the "hit" on Osmama,the US was blamed by Paki civvies as a violation of sovereignity and lack of faith in the Paki security services".Both true.Dr.T says that Pak has "practised this kind of mendacious behaviour before",when caught with its pants down "violating agreements and understandings with the US".He writes about Pak misusing US weaponry in '65,the subsequent arms embargo,which Pak called "evidence of US bad faith",a standard item of complaint even today,regularly used.The Pressler agreement was another example of US "bad faith" to Pakis.

The problem with this accusation is that according to Dr.T,the Paki military have always been told of the "boundaries" of behaviour and dangers of overstepping the line.The Pakis however keep on claiming about the US being "untrustworthy" as a partner and NEVER admits culpability or modifies its policies.Therefore, there is a track record of deteriorating US-Pak relations and security differences are publically exposed.

(I would here like to point out that Paki behaviour is exactly as pernicious as that practised by the LTTE in Lanka)

The same "disturbing" phenomenon was seen in '71,when Pak was soundly defeated and lost half its country and population.Dr.T says that Paki history and public memory continues to minimize or deny state and army culpability in that disaster,instead blaming it on "Indian perfidy and lack of US support".That absence of self-reflection and re-assessment suggests "an inability to adapt to policy failure--- definition that surely applies to the Bin Laden debacle".

Therefore,Pak will change behaviour little,make only short term tactical accomodations,increasing cooperation with the US in some areas alone to re-establish leverage with the US,and also express its displeasure by limiting US advisors,etc. in the country.Dr.T says that "both sides must focus carefully on mutual interests in order to pevent a repetition of the past and a complete collapse of the relationship----which would not be in the interests of either party or the international community".

(Here Dr.T seems to have done a flip-flop.With so much evidence of Paki perfidy and unwillingness to change behaviour,he still wants Uncle Sam to mollycoddle...sorry,molly-cuddle it! Jeez,these Yanquis will never learn! )

2.Sanctuary for terroists will continue:

Dr.T. gives exaples.In '47 Pak used irregulars an special forces to try and capture J&K.It (ISI) backed Islamist militants in Afghanistan "well before" the 1979 Soviet invasion and then became the primary souce of training for the mujahideen throughout the '80s.

(This is astonishing,for the first time the US has admitted Pak's complicity and perfidy in Afghanistan BEFORE the Sov. invasion-intervention actually .Dr.T is also on the subject strangely silent about the CIA's active involvement-some say the British too,in such diabllolic acts aaginst the Afghan govt. of the time.Indira Gandhi said it loud and clear always, that the US,etc., provoked the Soviets into intervention and thus never publicly condemned them for such action.So now Dr.T gives us the truth,like the butler,always the suspect at the scene of a murder,"it woz the Pakis wot dun it mate"1)

3.Irksome flirtations with China:

Pak's "all-weather friend".It established good relations a long time ago,"trade and aid",transferred territory back to China-still a sore point with India.The dragon a reliable supplier of arms,and covert supplier of nuclear amd missile tech,etc,etc.Forced to choose between the US and China,Pak would probably opt to choose China.He says that while the Paki view their ties with China as more crucial to Chin,the other side does no,not supporting it in "crisis or war".Dr.T quotes China,a "polite refusal" to Pak to use Gwadar as a naval base and that Pak will try and armtwist the US using the China card,but that it is not clear whether China wants an "entangling" tie-up with Pak,which might cost it in relations with the US.

(Here one begs to differ with the good doctor.China built the deep water harbour and port at Gwadar.It plans decades ahead.The "timing" of use of Gwadar is not right now.It will inevitably happen.This "polite refusal" is a typical PRC act of duplicity.Chinese moves made decades ago all point towards a Chinese military thrust towards the Gulf if its oil supplies are threatened and to secure them for the future.China lacks the naval heavy-weight forces,carriers and N-subs to operate out of the IOR and Gwadar right now and show the red flag.Believe you me,China does not waste its money so! Secondly,such an overt gesture right now would apart from the US,also infuriate India which is courting a naval relationship with Vietnam as a counter-measure.China has yet to sort out its Indo-China Sea spat with the ASEAN and littoral nations over the Spratlys and the growing coming together of the smaller threatened nations.Wait and watch for China to play the Burma card to outflank ASEAN.)

4.More US dollars not the key:

Here Dr.T is spot on! He says that "Pak's view on regional security and stability" are deeply at odds with US persective.,that Pak "will not reorient its national security policy,and has sytematically sustained regional instability through its obsessive competion with India".He lists out the terror attacks perpetrated by pak,26/11 and the attack on parliament angd kargil as examples,and says that Pak's N-weapons are fundamental to maintaining this "ugly stability".

Violating Pressler,$10B in aid,has not affected Pak's support for terror groups.Kerry-Lugar,intended to demonstrate a long-term commitment to Pak-it recieves more aid than Egypt and possibly Israel (!).Despite all this moolah,public opinion of the US is abysmally low".Dr.T suggesst that instead of mass aid to Pak,it should be "specifically targeted" to particular neededs and requirements.This is viewed by the Paki as "transactional" and lack of confidence in the realtionship.Dr.T says that when used,training for the Frontier Corps,police,power sector,etc., it has proved successful and while might not change Paki behaviour drastically,might benefit long-term internal security,eco growth and perception of the US.He also wants conntinuing close militry-to military ties through training,mil-education programmes,so that hopefully,some Paki officers will imbibe a pro-US mindset,many generals fondly remember their US days,etc.Pressler saw a generation of Paki miliatry officers who did not "benefit" from such US mil-education! He rightly says that the bnefits of such contact far outweigh thei magre costs.

(So why the continuing military aid to Pak,promises to immediately replace the Mehran Orions,etc.?)

5.Pak's military will not concede influence:

Dead right.Examples of how the ISI has remained under army control,not attempts to put i under the Home Min.ISI murders of opponents,journos,etc.Th fundamental fact that Pak' democratic politics remains factionalised and dynastic.
(He should've used the word "feudalistic too",as we've seen with the cute new Paki FM,seducing Indian diplomutts, who hails from a hugely rich feudal Punjabi family).The Paki politicos condemn the military when out of power but accomodate it when elected .The Islamists also settle "issues" like hits on "blasphemists" and their pet hates.
Therefore,civilian influence is bound to be limited unless the army is disgraced mssively.The Osama hit,while v.humiliating for the army has not brought about such a "momentum" for change.

6.Crisis and opportunity:

Dr.T says that the "Lawyers revolt" in 2007 which saw Mushy pensioned off,coul not bring under contol the intel agencies,events of 26/11 "launched by the intel services" embarrassed the civvie govt.(We now have confirmation,if it was ever needed that the Paki militry/ISI "launched" 26/11).
Obama's 2009 Af-Pak strategy aso caused waves of resentment in Pak,as have the drone strikes in FATA.Lack of coop against key militant groups killing coalition forces (Haqqani NW) and the Davis affair created "enormous stress" during Spring 2011.

The Osaam hit therefore should be viewed as a crisis and opportunity.A crisis as it demonstrates "tacit complicity or incompetence of the Paki military/ISI,who either sheltered him or were as clueless (as Clouseau !).The hit was a humiliation for the Paki military who coul not detect it,plu the Mehran raid later on further exposed Paki military incompetence.

An opportunity as the hit was a victory againt terrorism,leading to a re-examination of US-Pak relations and are-assessment of US-Coalition regional policies.Dr.T says that ultimately,US-Pak relation must become more pragmatic,thugh much flowery language has been uttered,national interests are bound to be "fundamentally in conflict".Over time a "strong Indo-US relationship" will develop.The US says Dr.T want a Taliban free-as much as poss.,Afghanistan (then why the secret talks with the Talibs by both US and Britain?),and Pak to end support for "transnational militants and terrorists" .The US views Pak' N-arsenal s a potential souce of potential global intability.

(Why then silence on China's N-deal with Pak,which has no safeguards,silence on Pak building new N-reactors for weapons only,why re there no sanctions for such perfidious acts that threaten "global instability" according to Dr.T ? The best is yet to come.)

"Pakistan with alternative priorities,pursues foreign policies that are often reckless and astrategic,and seems to exert little or no control over militants (surely they should be called "terrorists" ,or do anti-Indian entities get excused?) it has empowered and supported in recent decades".Therefore aid and diplomacy must focus on "transactional relationships" says Dr.T.

7.Reassessment of priorities:

US re-evaluation is already underway.While 100.000 US/Coalition forces remain,Pak has leverage.Once they disappear,it will decrease...but,it cn and still will use militant proxies to influence the peace process and political reconciliation that must be part o any Coalition strategy,including any negotiations wiht the Taliban.

(Here Dr.T. is derailed in thought, as recent assassiantions of Karzai' brother,regional chieftains,have shown, in which direction the Taliban is heading for..."Kabul or bust" at any cost,wth all the aid and assistance that it can get from the ISI,well funded by US aid!)

Dr.T is firmly on track again when he says that the US/Coalition have "little control over events and devlopment in Pak".Pak's size,more people than even Russia,economics,N-weapons,"dangerous" foreign policy,etc.,make it an even more significant strategic concern than Afghanistan .Multiple forces contribute to Pak's instability,violent domestic poliitics,significant corruption,and endemic delay in the legal system,and fiscal incompetence.

"The most influential entity in Pak is the army,which drives the country's strategy,defence planning,and to a great extent foreign policy.The Paki army is in many respects as autonomus and pernicious an institution as the Mexican drug cartels(!!!) It has control over many of the violent instruments and does not want to govern the ountry,but wants to ensure that the govt. that does run the country is weak enough so all the army's needs,interests,and internal agendas are met."

(Here Dr.T,aka "St.Timothy", on the "road to Rawalpindi ",has "seen the light", as St.Paul did 2000 years ago on the road to Damascus,or like Archimedes, has had his "Eureka" moment !)

Dr.T's prescription:

"The US and intl. communiy must use aid and diploamcy to influence Pak in directions that provide for greater regional stability and security.This can only be done by working carefully to strengthen Paki civil society through targeted eco assiatance an by systematically helping to empower other official and NGOs institutions in Pak,especially those that can both deliver result and influence the policy process.As long as the military maintains it unique world view,its autonomy in national security and foreign policy arenas,and reputation as the one organisation that can get thing done,Pak will remin an epicentre for violenc an a threat to stability."

(The latter half of the prescription one will not disagree with,put pefectly!)

*Having now read the good doctor Tim's assessment of Pak at this moment in time,and I can't remember when last a US establishment figure wrote so brutally and frankly about Uncle Sam's favourote 'rent-boy",why don't we prescribe to him some "medicine of our own" that we feel should be administered to Pak?

After reading Dr.T's expose on the state,run by a military the equivalent of a "Mexican drug cartel",I am amazed that "molly-cuddling" (to coin a new phrase) of this "epi-centre of terrorism" remains the only medicine for Pak to recover a semblance of sanity.I thought that listing certain key members of the Paki uniformed tribe as '"war criminals",freeezing their bank accounts,red flag notices by Interpol for the same prupose,bringing Gen.Mushy to the Hague,not feting him in luxury in London,ceasing all military aid to Pak-in short treating Pak like a leprous disease and isolating it from civilised society would bring about internal revolt to the military regime and allowing fissiparious entities to shatter Jinnah's dream,the world's nightmare .

The events of '71,where the emergence of Bangladesh has proven that this "nightmare" deserves the same medicine that was administered in '71.No matter if Pak now has nukes.Once Pak has been split up into lesser morsels,the same inducements that were given to the Kazakh to give up their nukes (remember Mrs.Thatcher's visit to Kazakhistan?) can be given to those who possess them.Allowing Pak to remain one huge terrorist entity where all attempts to "housetrain" it have failed, is a recipe for disaster especially as the further Islamisation of the Paki armed forces is increasing the acts of the radcials in that country.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Vivek_A »

Thanks for the write-up, Phillip.

I was one of those who met Dr Tim in May 2001 in DC. It's been more than 10 years but I still remember one thing about that BRF meet. In response to q question about missiles v/s manned fighters, Dr Tim predicted the rise of the drones... and 10 years on, he has been proven correct.
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